Actually, If your looking to make some money online and your a regular torrent downloader, then you already have your solution right in front of you. People have been making money on torrent sites for years. The sheer volume of people that visit torrent sites everyday makes them a great opportunity to turn a profit on. You have the potential to get paid for every torrent download that you receive from any torrent file that you upload. You can go this by becoming a Pay Per Install Affiliate or buy giving people directions to product sites of "free" sites with Pay Per Click ads. Anybody can make money on a torrent site, you just have to know how to attack them. Most people choose to use become a Pay Per Install affiliate to make money on torrent site because it's the easiest way. You simply bundle your files with the install program that you received from your affiliate merchant and upload your files as normals. And every time somebody downloads one of your files you earn a commission. If your looking to make some extra money and aren't looking to promote products online, Pay Per Install is for you because you can upload anything you want to torrent sites. As long as the torrents get downloaded you will earn a commission. And because torrent sites are frequented by millions of people everyday you never have to worry about advertising. All of that stuff is taken care of for you by the torrent site owners.
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NewRomancer Deactivated User
under THEIR avatar 738 Posts 7/08
Posted - Sep 16 2008 : 12:20PM
And that's not the only way to make $$ off a torrent site... If adult companies want to make as much money as they can, they'd explore these forward thinking, progressive options.
NewRomancer, I see you decided to skip all the hard questions. Which doesn't surprise me. I don't blame you. I suspect that any realistic answer would have destroyed most of the points you have been trying to make. My hope is that maybe some people that may have been illegally downloading movies or considering illegally downloading movies will read this thread and reconsider and choose to use VOD, rent or purchase their movies.
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NewRomancer Deactivated User
under THEIR avatar 738 Posts 7/08
Posted - Sep 16 2008 : 1:19PM
Like others here, I guess I pick and choose what I want to answer and what I don't... It is, after all, a free internet. And despite the apparent wishes of some, it will remain that way (or possibly even get free-er) "My hope is that" My hope is that you're not holding your breath, waiting for that to happen....
Nice to see the respect level you have for the people who are having their work ripped off as the only way I can take this is that you actually are hoping more people illegally download instead of less. I'm done here.
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NewRomancer Deactivated User
under THEIR avatar 738 Posts 7/08
Posted - Sep 16 2008 : 1:41PM
"Nice to see the respect level you have for the people who are having their work ripped off" My level of respect or not isn't even remotely a factor... I'm not making this a personal issue in the least. "you actually are hoping more people illegally download instead of less" Again, I never said that, did I? You're reading your agenda into my posts. I don't HOPE one way or the other... Hope is irrelevant. My grandfather was fond of saying "You can hope in one hand and crap in the other and see which one piles up first". The trend is that the internet will most likely remain not only ungoverned, but ungovernable... Especially in our short little lifetimes. Even if The USA decides to try to lock down their portion of cyberspace, it's a big ol' world outside them borders and they can't control what goes on outside their borders. (Some would probably suggest they can't even really control what goes on INSIDE their borders) For right or wrong, people WILL use the internet to get copies of things for free that they are unwilling or unable to pay retail price for. They will find ways around EVERY attempt at curbing that behaviour. So all the hope in the world isn't worth a tinkers-toenail.... May as well join 'em, cause yer sure as hell never going to beat them.
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Tobin Deactivated User
450 Posts 11/07
Posted - Sep 16 2008 : 3:30PM
Basically true, but the basic result is that online illegal file-sharing probably has some negative impact on traditional sales but the effect is appears to be quite small. The size of this effect is debated, and ranges from 0 to 100% of the sales decline in recent years, but a figure of between 0 and 30% would be a reasonable consensus value (i.e. that file-sharing accounted for 0-30% of the decline in sales not a 0-30% decline in sales). At the same time there is still substantial disagreement in the literature with the most impressive paper to date (Oberholzer and Strumpf 2005) estimating no impact from file-sharing. Many people think it's not illegal to download, but rather only to upload. What many do not realize, is that sharing (seeding) is a form of uploading. Most people who download torrents will seed them for a time to improve their download speeds. These people presume this is not uploading, so many people are actually uploading without realizing it. The good news is, there is plenty of free stuff out there you can legally download. It might not be everything on your Christmas list, but hey, it's free. There is a list of a few places you can download from, without worrying that you're breaking some kind of law.
It's not just a form of uploading. It is uploading. The only real difference is that it is generally only small chunks at a time. Which is irrelevant because copyrights apply to parts of a whole as well.I don't think most people who do it are that ignorant of how it works. All the major P2P clients I've seen clearly indicate that you're uploading as well as downloading. If a person can figure out how to use one of these clients, they probably aren't that ignorant.
Well, a lot of us "old timers" are not happy about the fact that entertainment as we know it will cease to exist if this keeps up. I can't put a price tag on the enjoyment I've gotten out of copyrighted works in my lifetime. Like it or not, the people who made music, movies (mainstream and porn), books, software and whatever else expect to be paid for their work. I have CDs I paid $12 for 15 years ago and have enjoyed them at least once a week ever since. $12 was not unreasonable. In fact, it was a bargain. If you treat entertainment like worthless trash, don't be too surprised when you can't find anything worth having. People don't work for free. It's as simple as that.
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NewRomancer Deactivated User
under THEIR avatar 738 Posts 7/08
Posted - Sep 17 2008 : 10:16AM
"entertainment as we know it will cease to exist if this keeps up" Rest easy RP... that's never going to happen either.
One doesn't need a crystal ball to see that porn is never going to go away... It's been with us since we came down outa the trees... Specific companies who are unwilling to change with the times might fall by the way-side, but there will be 10, 20 or more there to take their place when they do.
Patience is a virtue, but who wants to be virtuous? 4283 Posts 4/00
Posted - Sep 17 2008 : 12:45PM
^ Because they love their work SO much that they will do it even if it becomes impossible to make a profit doing it? I love my job, but I can tell you for sure that I have bills to pay. And if I'm no longer able to pay my bills by doing the job that I do, I won't be able to keep this as my primary job. I think that's probably true of the majority of people in the porn business. I'm not sure how many movies worth watching will be made if there comes a day when companies aren't making money. Why would a talented person want to start a NEW company in a business that doesn't make money? Imagine all the start-up internet companies in the 90s. It was a booming business area. Then too many started failing. So then a lot less people started new ones. And a lot of the smarter people did something else, rather than start their own new internet business. I'm especially cranky today because when I was in NY over the weekend, I lost one of my credit cards at JFK Airport. I bought food at the airport, and that's the last time I remember seeing that card. Unfortunately, I didn't realize for 2 days that I had lost the card. Citibank called me alerting me to a bunch of charges being made on my card in NY. Sometimes, I've been frustrated when I travel and they put a block on my card because I make a lot of purchases in a different city all of a sudden, and then at the register of the store, I have to call the credit card company to have the hold taken off. It's embarrassing, but I know they're just being cautious and doing their job. This time, it helped me (and them). They told me that in two days, someone had made over $3000 of charges. They paid a TMobile bill. They went to a spa. They bought clothes. They got their hair done. They stayed at a hotel. I won't have to pay for any of those charges. But someone will. Whether it's the stores that won't get paid, or the credit card company losing money, SOMEONE lost money. I'm every bit as at a loss for words with people who download illegally as I am with the person who stole my credit card. I'll never understand people who think they can get something for nothing. If you think a porn movie sucks, then DON'T buy it! Is your (I'm talking in generalities, not to a specific person) time SO invaluable, that you just sit there wasting time watching stuff that isn't worthwhile? I wish that porn fans were MORE discriminating. There's a lot of crap out there. Don't spend your money on it. But don't think that YOU can choose what you think you should be able to watch for free, either. Companies get to pick their business models, not you. You get to pick whether or not you want to financially support their business model.
If you buy from the right companies and do proper research you should be just fine. You find that you become quit addicted and end up having a lot of fun and can't wait to make your next purchase.
Edited by - mcewan on 9/17/2008 1:02:54 PM
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NewRomancer Deactivated User
under THEIR avatar 738 Posts 7/08
Posted - Sep 17 2008 : 3:53PM
"It was a booming business area." That porn is SO much easier to produce now than it was in the 80's & 90s will have the same effect... boom... Every joe schmuck with a 500 buck camera and a couple of willing bodies can make a porno dvd... (which is not to say they are all created equal) A bust will come... (But there's scant if any evidence that downloaders will cause or even barely contribute to that bust) The bubble will burst. Many will flame out and vanish... The ones who are good at what they do... who best meet their customers demands will survive and prosper. Others will end up selling life-insurance or real-estate to pay the bills That's the free market for ya.
These two things have nothing to do with each other. The ones who best meet their customers demands might do well. More likely it's the ones who best convince their customers that they have best met their demands will do well. But both of these things have nothing to do with who is good at what they do. If the best porn is made by the person with a bad business model, it will still fail. Meanwhile Vivid still rules the roost, despite no porn fan I've ever met having almost anything good to say about them, except for the odd sliver of praise amongst far more complaints. Ah, the free market. If this is what you see as inevitable, fine, I can understand that. Many see the free market system as inevitable. If this is what you see as ideal though... you must not like pornography much.
Customers, by definition, are people who pay for the goods or services. People who take them without paying for them are not customers. They're just thieves. Believe it or not, a customer doesn't have a god given right to demand they don't have to pay for something. What kind of business is going to even try to meet that kind of demand? What do they get out of it?Free market doesn't mean everything is free for the taking.
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NewRomancer Deactivated User
under THEIR avatar 738 Posts 7/08
Posted - Sep 18 2008 : 1:15PM
"More likely it's the ones who best convince their customers that they have best met their demands will do well." Yer a balding mans best friend, splitting hairs like that... "If the best porn is made by the person with a bad business model, it will still fail." I'm pretty sure I said that... or at least I meant to... But the best business models in this day and age include the internet and MUST take into account file sharing, as there doesn't exist a single way to stop it. "If this is what you see as ideal" Ideal schmideal... The world is what it is. Everybody has a different version of what "ideal" might be. "a customer doesn't have a god given right to demand they don't have to pay for something" No... cause there's no such thing as god... One of the ways the internet is changing the world is that yes.... People no longer have to pay for what they don't wish to pay for... If you're convinced that Indiana Jones 4 is going to be a total car-crash, and you're willing to wait until you can download it to watch it and justify to yourself that you were right, the internet makes that exceedingly possible... That's a direct statement to the people who produce such crap from their customers. It says, "I paid exactly what -I- thought your movie was worth, and if you don't like that, make better movies, cause I'd be happy to pay for stuff that isn't garbage." "you must not like pornography much" Argumentative, and needlessly personal... But as a consumer I expect my needs and wants to be met, if a producer wants my money. Very few get it, in the porn world or any other for that matter...
I don't see how it's splitting hairs to say there's a difference between meeting someone's needs and fooling them into thinking you've met their needs.Yeah, I have no idea what that has to do with anything I was saying. I'm talking to you about good vs bad quality, and you're talking to me about file-sharing. I think maybe you've got a "me against the world" complex going on in this thread. The reason I said that little bit I quoted there is because it appeared to me that you were consistently saying that the best porn would win out; whereas I was trying to point out (and it seems you agree with me) that it's not the best porn that would win out, it's the best businessperson.I know everyone has a different version of what "ideal" might be. That's why I said "you". As in, you and no one else.Thank you for severely misquoting me. I said "If this is what you see as ideal though... you must not like pornography much." By "this" I meant a system where the good pornography doesn't win out - the pornography backed by the best business model does. So I was saying that if you, personally, feel that if this is the best thing to happen, then you must not like pornography much. Because then you, personally, are not so much concerned for the quality of your pornography as you are concerned that good business thrives. But all of this was prefaced by "IF". The first part of the "if" statement I made being "If this is what you see as inevitable, fine, I can understand that. Many see the free market system as inevitable." Clearly by your above remark that "The world is what it is", you do see it as inevitable, and not as ideal. Thus, case 1 applies to you, and case 2 doesn't. In such a situation, you're supposed to ignore the case that doesn't apply to you. Which was the bit about not liking pornography much. Please read this post more carefully than the last if you choose to respond, so as not to take anything out of context.
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NewRomancer Deactivated User
under THEIR avatar 738 Posts 7/08
Posted - Sep 18 2008 : 1:53PM
"it's not the best porn that would win out, it's the best businessperson" Agreed to some extent... Especially considering that the definition of "best porn" is or can be radically different for each person.... The best porn is whatever gets you off, but others mileage may vary. The best business people are using the internet, and file sharing these days... Not trying to run from it, or thinking they can ever stop it. "I don't see how it's splitting hairs to say there's a difference between meeting someone's needs and fooling them into thinking you've met their needs." If someone thinks they're happy, then they're happy.... You can't fool someone into thinking that they're happy for every long, and they usually end up pretty pissed off that you even tried. "Thank you for severely misquoting me" In this world of text only communication it's VERY easy to misunderstand each other....
Very true, and I'd be extremely hard-pressed to find any ADT members (including myself) who hadn't misunderstood someone else's post before (or even on many occasions). I accept your apology.
Not a claim as such... allow me to rephrase The best business model would be people using the internet, and file sharing these days, to their advantage.... Not trying to run from it, or thinking they can ever stop it. Not that I know much about business! (or anything else for that matter)
I think this is an oversimplification. Good movies are being illegally downloaded too. I suggest there are several groups of downloaders: 1. People who want to get everything for free and will always do so if they can get away with it. 2. People who cannot get their porn in a legal way (for example: under 18s, people in "do not ship" states, people with no income) 3. People who already buy porn, but also "sample" movies they have not seen when they appear online. 4. People who already buy porn but want to watch more movies than they can afford. I really do not believe that there is a class of people who only download bad movies in order to protest how bad they are. Why would they bother? Of the categories listed, types 3 and 4 are supporting the industry with cash, even if they are also breaking the law. Type 2 is not supporting the industry, but has potential to in future, if they become adults, move to a civilized place or get a job, respectively. Only type 1 is the total freeloader that people are complaining about in here. The challenge for the industry is how to discourage type 1, without alienating types 3 and 4. Irrespective of any illegal copies they might look at, 3 and 4 are part of the industry's bread and butter, and it would not be wise to lose them as a source of income.
Your system of categories is an oversimplification too. People that you list in category 3 and 4 become members of category 1 very easily. As I said before with the growth of stolen porn on the harddrive the demand for DVDs decreases. The prime example for your category 4 is the college student. Generations of college student used to buy a VHS or DVD every other month. Today they simply download "because they can't afford to buy it".
Since companies are so upset about people enjoying their products for free... and there are being laws made to protect them... of course it's an act of disobedience to enjoy the companies 'hard work' for free to fuck with them. Most people don't really like capitalism, only those few psychopats hooked on money, power and greed. Edited by - Gunzo on 9/19/2008 5:20:27 AM
If they are in category 1 they are not in category 4. You don't seem to have said anything new with this post, apart from contradicting yourself in the excerpt I quoted.
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NewRomancer Deactivated User
under THEIR avatar 738 Posts 7/08
Posted - Sep 19 2008 : 8:04AM
"I think this is an oversimplification." Well, I can't say that I'm encouraged to put much work into this thread, so ya... it probably is.... But as with all things, it gets what I think it's worth. "Good movies are being illegally downloaded too." Define good. (Your definition and mine are apt to be very very different)
No, I only said that you can't put a potential customer in one inflexible category. Your categories 3 and 4 are doorways to category 1 in most cases. Again. Porn needs the many many twentysomethings who may not have spent much money individually in the past but as a whole customers segment.
Most physically and psychologically lazy people don't like capitalism. People who would prefer to be coddled by their government from cradle to grave don't like it much either. But those of us who like to be rewarded for the fruits of our labor rather enjoy it. But you keep stickin' it to the man dude. Wear your Che Gueverra t-shirt and download free porn to protest the evil capitalist system! Righteous!
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NewRomancer Deactivated User
under THEIR avatar 738 Posts 7/08
Posted - Sep 19 2008 : 11:04AM
"Wear your Che Gueverra t-shirt... to protest the evil capitalist system!" Ya... the radical T-shirt you bought at The Gap...
I'm sorry but I don't think you can call many red philosophers 'psychologically lazy'... and with intelligence comes the knowledge of knowing that being physically active is good for you... I don't feel any need to defend myself here, I'm not promoting piracy in any way. But what I do have a problem with is that people like you seems to take it personally, most people complaining are complaining because maybe they won't be able to keep that luxurious big ass mansion in the valley... or maybe I'm wrong? Maybe when you're collecting cans and typing from a public computer I'll take the bitching seriously...
Patience is a virtue, but who wants to be virtuous? 4283 Posts 4/00
Posted - Sep 19 2008 : 12:14PM
Do you really think that it's just the porn companies and owners that are making less money? For that matter, do you thank Quasar is rich? He's a for-hire director. A good one, but he's not the one making a fortune on his movies. I already know a lot of makeup artists are losing work because some companies have decided that a makeup artist has now become a 'luxury' that they need to cut a corner on. Still photographers are losing work, because the producers of the movies are deciding to have the video guy or the director take the still pictures when he hadn't before. Some good directors are finding it difficult to find work because some companies are hiring non-experienced directors instead, because it's cheaper. Ever see the "Don't illegally download" PSA on some mainstream DVDs? It shows some of the crew workers, saying that if you illegally download movies, you're taking money away from everyone - from the head of the motion picture company down to the PA who gets waters for the crew. I'm not saying that the internet isn't a great thing. I just don't believe that people should be able to place their own price (or no price) on a service which was created by someone else, unless the someone else decides to do it like that.
they dismiss those as propaganda. "it simply couldn't be true!" they mutter to themselves as they rationalize the way they collected the free booty (no pun intended) on their hard drives. it's easy for those not directly involved to scoff when they have no foothold in reality.
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NewRomancer Deactivated User
under THEIR avatar 738 Posts 7/08
Posted - Sep 19 2008 : 1:18PM
"I already know a lot of makeup artists are losing work because some companies... because it's cheaper." And there's no evidence that this decline (if it actually exists outside of anecdote) is a direct result of downloading, or indeed that downloading is the major factor, if it's any. It's just as likely, or more likely that any decline (if there is one) is because of other factors.... Ease of production... Glut of producers... A more discerning public... Healthier attitudes toward sexual expression in real life.... all are possible...
@tricia_devereaux: The effieciency program you're describing is more real - something that goes on with or without online piracy (not everything can be distributed that way mind you). But of course it feels good to blame someone or something. I read a lot of books though... it's very cheap, in most cases free... without me stealing anything... but rarely do I hear publishers telling me to buy their newly released books. Why is that? Why aren't they as angry as Mike? To me it seems that those complaining a lot and loud, are those getting in the business to make as much money as possible, and yes, that sickens me, porn or any other creative field should imo be fuelled by love. As said, I buy my porn on discs, I prefer it that way, I don't download much at all because I don't like it. Evolution will probably stop me from buying porn since most of it seems to go online period...
Are you out of your fucking mind? Who does not, in any field or vocation, want to make as much money as possible? The world doesn't run on altruism, it runs on money. Does is sicken you to know that Paul McCartney, a great artist, really enjoys his money? What about Bill Gates? What about anybody with a fucking skill that contributes something to humanity. Should they do it for free because they also love doing it? Mother Teresa didn't have a mortgage and a kid at NYU. No one loves their art so much that they would do it for free. The people that say they would are not artists, they're called homeless people.
Well, that or they have another job which pays the bills, and the art is just a hobby. Unfortunately, some (many?) people feel that's all art should ever be, and that no one should get paid for it. You don't often realize who these people are, either, until their kid decides to pursue art as a career. "Get a real job," my friend's father told her when she announced she was going to pursue writing full-time, despite having supported all her writing endeavours until that point. "You need to contribute something to society. You can write on the weekends." The implication being clear: writing is not contributing anything to society. My friend just stared, flabbergasted. This was the man who had taught her everything she knew about writing. I was actually there that day in their kitchen when this happened. It was a pretty tense moment. She's now been earning a decent living as a writer for 9 years (well, the first two years weren't great, but she's been doing well for at least seven), and he's still angry.
I know I said I was done here and I am. I'm not returning to the argument. However, I have had an idea that should please anyone who is not an actual illegal downloader. Of course if I can think it up I'm sure others can and probably have. One of the major statements made here is that companies need to join in with the illegal downloaders instead of fighting them. I've figured out a way for companies to potentially make money off illegal downloaders without giving people permission to steal their movies. They should purposely ruin them and post them all over at the places where their movies are stolen. By purposely ruining them I can think of several ways to do this to bring in money. The companies can blur all hardcore action and put text on the screen saying see the uncensored version at [insert companies VOD site here]. Companies can sign deals with other companies and re-edit titles. For instance, Evil Angel and Treasure Island Media could sign a deal to be able to use each others footage. Since the types of movies that each of these studios make will probably not appeal to most of the viewers of the other studio they can edit scenes to include footage from the other companies titles. For instance they can swap out the pop shots from the other companies titles so a straight movie will have pop shots from a gay scene instead and a gay movie will have pop shots from a straight movie. During the switched footage the text can be put on the screen that to see the correct footage see the full version at [insert companies VOD site here] and to see the movie that the current footage is from go to [insert other companies VOD site here] and watch [insert title here]. Other portions can be edited out, swap out anal scenes the same way. If someone on the set has the flu and gets sick, edit that footage interlaced into sex scenes and put the text to see the unadulterated version at [insert companies VOD site here]. My guess is that downloaders will get tired of getting ruined titles and either give up or go pay for the download making money for the company. I'm sure some will continue downloading copy after copy until they get a good one but I'm guessing these are the downloaders that will never pay for a movie to begin with. Just as illegal downloaders crack current digital security measures companies can crack any hidden code being put into titles to indicate they aren't ruined titles. Since the companies wouldn't be giving out real versions of the movie they wouldn't be giving permission to download the real version. And since the versions being given out are ruined people who are paying for their titles shouldn't get mad at the companies.
^This is how KaZaa was essentially rendered useless. Billions of junk files were uploaded, so when you searched for just about any song or artist, you got tons of hits, but they were all 0.1kb files (empty files). It worked. Hardly anyone uses KaZaa to download music anymore. It won't shut down every illegal downloading source at the same time, but if, for example, the industry decided that site X was the most commonly used site for downloading porn flicks, they could flood site X with bogus files, and then no one would be able to sift through all the bogus files anymore to get the good stuff. Of course, then site Y would become the biggest site, but there would be some lag time in there while people figured out which was the new best site to go to. And then the industry could do the same thing to site Y. It's by no means an ideal solution, and it's more of a game of cat and mouse than anything else, but it would fuck with people's illegal downloading habits. And maybe that's all you want to do.
That is what is behind the idea. I figure if you fuck with the downloading habits some might go back to being customers and I figure it would work for a while until other methods can be figured out to combat piracy.
Now hold it just one second, I never said you couldn't enjoy your filthy money, I'm just saying that it shouldn't be the reason why when you can do what you want and survive while doing it. No one loves their art? What a pile of dog shit... are you out of your mind? Most artists are broke and sponsored by the community... your tax is paying their salaries, hard to swallow, isn't it? Those lazy bastards stealing from a hard working man like yourself... what a fucked up system... besides, I hardly recognize anyone in the porn industry artists... they're basically hustlers and bad artists that couldn't do a decent music video...
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NewRomancer Deactivated User
under THEIR avatar 738 Posts 7/08
Posted - Sep 20 2008 : 9:56AM
"This is how KaZaa was essentially rendered useless" And something else took it's place almost immediately. "it's more of a game of cat and mouse" Actually it's a game of catch-up... only one will never catch up to the so-called pirates.
You're absolutely right. Now stop masturbating to porn you fucking hypocrite. Those "arists" supported by the community are not artists, they're pretentious drains on society. Let's do a comparison - The white album vs the Piss Christ. Which was was supported by public funds and which was made for profit? Enough said.
Yeah I know. I said that. But maybe the key here, for those looking for a way to fight the illegal downloading (and notice I didn't say it was a good or a bad idea, but that this was a way to do it), is the word "almost". Maybe whatever that lag in time is (be it one minute, one hour, one day, one week, however long it takes for the majority of the downloading public to decide on a new number one source) will buy them the time they need to think of something else. Maybe it won't. All I said was that it shut down KaZaa. And IIRC, it did take a while before the public in general all settled on Soulseek as the best source for music downloads. It wasn't a matter of minutes or hours. People bounced around through various inferior programs/channels before everyone landed together on Soulseek and it became as popular as KaZaa was. I'm sure the RIAA was feeling good for a couple of weeks there. And maybe that's all that the industry needs to do. Feel good for a while... feel as if they have made a dent in it all, until they can think up new business plans/new techniques/new whatever for the new age.
