I don't want to steal porn

Author	Post
Irex Member 92 Posts 11/09	Posted - Feb 2 2010 : 1:07AM I don't like the idea of free illegal downloads. Really, I don't. Like a kid in a candy store, when it first became possible, I have to admit the idea appealed to me. And I won't confirm or deny whether or not I did download (mainly because it's always a bad idea to ever admit to any crime if you committed it or not.)... But let's say for the sake of argument, I did download. At first, I might not have thought much of it. After all, I maintained a xrentdvd account up until August of 2009. I was still getting movies the old fashioned way. And the stuff I was looking at download-wise was a lot of older, hard to find rarities, stuff that may never come out on DVD or even pop up on VHS. If no one was going to put it out, why not have it for the click of a mouse? So that may have been excuse number one. The next slippery slope was the high priced websites. First off, 29.95 for a month? A dollar a day for six or seven scenes of new footage? And having to give my credit card in perpetuity? And hearing nightmares about cancelling out of sites, being charged after not wanting to be a member any longer? Sounds terrible to me. The choice of downloading a scene and incurring the worst case scenario, a virus that might wipe out my hard drive and cost 200 bucks to fix still sounds better than having my credit card in someone else's hands, to me. So that may have been excuse number two. Now we get to the movies themselves. And let's face it, we can hardly call them movies anymore. There's no narrative, no story, barely a theme. Even picking up a MILF movie often means the actresses are simply in their twenties, thirties and forties. The concept of a MILF is more complicated than simply their child bearing age. It has to do with their station in life and maybe their longing for some excitement and thrills in a way a 20 year old girl isn't. So I might look at a movie and find there is maybe one scene, ONE SCENE, where the initial concept is actually approached that makes it worth a look. And I have to buy or rent an entire movie where little or no effort was made to see it. Or there's some uploader who broke the movie down piece by piece, each scene is available as a separate download and I can ignore the girls who I don't find attractive and the ones who don't do good work and the ones working with a guy who fucks up the scene by putting the focus on himself. Oh my, that certainly is seductive. So that may have been excuse number three. But to be honest, it's not that appealing after a while. It's like your working at a supermarket, and after hours you and your buddies take a shopping cart and steal every variety of potato chips. Naturally your first instinct is going to be, take a bunch of your favorites and throw some new ones in there as well, try out flavors you didn't even think you'd like- because they're free! Somebody's paying for it, but they're free for you. However, now you've got five hundred bags of potato chips. You didn't want them, but it didn't cost you anything. After a while you're eating two, three chips out of the bag and throwing them away because it's pointless to eat the crap you didn't want in the first place. I don't want bad porn for free. But the current economic model just doesn't work. It makes it very easy to rationalize stealing. Why aren't there other pay modes besides credit card to allay my fears? I can buy virtually everything else in the world with paypal. Why not porn too? I rarely deal with an online merchant of any sort who doesn't allow me to put a barrier between my credit info and them. And why must I pay for a month? Why can't I download according to what content I want? I can buy a song that cost ten grand to produce for 99 cents on iTunes, yet if I only want two or three scenes from a porn site I have to pay 30 bucks? If the option is I pay a few bucks for a few scenes or your content remains unseen, wouldn't you rather make five, ten bucks as opposed to nothing? And doesn't it make sense to actually make movies that somehow hit the theme target in a really powerful fashion? I hate brazzers and their relative lack of IR output, but I must admit they usually put five minutes worth of set up and follow through in their ideas. I'm honestly not trying to justify theft, but it seems like porn has gotten stuck in this mindset where they shouldn't have to meet the consumer's needs in any new fashion. No changing the way we pay for it, no effort in production and no new ideas in how to price it. [Link]
Tobias Deactivated User 475 Posts 1/09	Posted - Feb 2 2010 : 2:04AM The mods will shut down this thread soon - Since we're not supposed to acknowledge that pirating even exists. Is there a solution to the problem? Maybe. Maybe not. But, is it really worth losing sleep over? [Link]
Mutt Member 12 Posts 2/10	Posted - Feb 2 2010 : 2:05AM Irex wrote: I hate brazzers and their relative lack of IR output, but I must admit they usually put five minutes worth of set up and follow through in their ideas. Click to expand Brazzers are the biggest thieves of adult video content on the planet. fuck em. steal every fucking Brazzers scene or DVD you can. there's a ton of quality porn out there in every niche imaginable - 30 dollars a month is not expensive considering one DVD costs that almost. check out a good review site and your credit card won't get fucked with - the good review sites check that all out. [Link]
Flash Golden Age Classic 11018 Posts 5/01	Posted - Feb 2 2010 : 2:25AM This is all just rationalizing. There are plenty of methods to legally obtain adult movies if you so choose. You can rent DVDs a la carte from most online rental outlets or via monthly subscriptions. You can watch VOD where you pay for the movie, a scene, or 10 minutes if that's what makes you happy. You can even pick your scene. There are still brick and mortar rental outlets where you can go and pay cash to rent an adult movie if you so wish. There are some adult stores that can take PayPal now. Bear in mind, until recently adult stores could not accept PayPal. It wasn't a choice. PayPal wouldn't let them. And there are adult films with narrative. Try feature films. There are still plenty out with a complete story from start to finish. And the ITunes example doesn't work because more people will buy the song than will buy a scene. So either they charge more than 99 cents for a scene or cut down the cost of making the scene. You know, things like the lighting that allow you to see the action. Or the skilled camera operator capturing it for you. Basically it comes down to you chose to steal or you don't. Anything else is just rationalizing why you are doing what you are doing. [Link]
BlackSix All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07	Posted - Feb 2 2010 : 2:34AM I use VOD all the time and watched way more porn than I could ever have even downloaded. [Link]

posthum Member 349 Posts 12/09	Posted - Feb 2 2010 : 9:36AM The idea of a review site for porn sites was new to me, so after reading Mutt's post I did some some searching. Turns out those reviews praise sites that have been confirmed in several ADT threads (too lazy to dig up links) to deploy all sorts of not so nice tactics. Be it pre-checking well hidden boxes for extra memberships, not letting you cancel or even billing you after you've finally managed to cancel. This post is not meant to justify stealing content, just a warning to everyone who thinks they can safely join any porn site that gets some nice words in a review. How do you know the person behind the reviews isn't on the payroll of several porn sites anyway. Edited by - posthum on 2/2/2010 9:38:54 AM [Link]
Irex Member 92 Posts 11/09	Posted - Feb 2 2010 : 12:39PM Flash wrote: This is all just rationalizing. There are plenty of methods to legally obtain adult movies if you so choose. You can rent DVDs a la carte from most online rental outlets or via monthly subscriptions. You can watch VOD where you pay for the movie, a scene, or 10 minutes if that's what makes you happy. You can even pick your scene. There are still brick and mortar rental outlets where you can go and pay cash to rent an adult movie if you so wish. There are some adult stores that can take PayPal now. Bear in mind, until recently adult stores could not accept PayPal. It wasn't a choice. PayPal wouldn't let them. And there are adult films with narrative. Try feature films. There are still plenty out with a complete story from start to finish. And the ITunes example doesn't work because more people will buy the song than will buy a scene. So either they charge more than 99 cents for a scene or cut down the cost of making the scene. You know, things like the lighting that allow you to see the action. Or the skilled camera operator capturing it for you. Basically it comes down to you chose to steal or you don't. Anything else is just rationalizing why you are doing what you are doing. Click to expand The skilled camera operator? are you watching the same gonzo porn I am? If you've never run a red light, cheated on your taxes, left work early, snuck out on a girlfriend, etc. congratulations, you're a far better person than 99% of the world. Some of us do that kind of stuff and some people steal porn. People rationalize every day. I don't think it's right, but I also think it's silly for porn to work from a business model that became obsolete in 2002. Also brick and mortar porn rental is practically non-existent now. pay per porn is still credit card based and you often have to buy a huge block of time. I've looked into it. The number of narrative films is practically zero and they're often shot softcore style ala Vivid. I can keep going back and forth with you but I have a fear it'll simply get me swatted down. Look I agree stealing porn is wrong, I agree that people rationalize it. But I'm also pointing out that I think online porn works from an old and bad business model. I don't have the answers but then my livelihood isn't dependent on me figuring out a new model either. But people in the industry should be looking at better ways to make their product accessible, rather than just blaming illegal downloads for all their woes. [Link]
posthum Member 349 Posts 12/09	Posted - Feb 2 2010 : 12:47PM ^ A payment model that doesn't require you to hand out your name, physical address and card number would certainly lead to a couple more sites making money from me. And no, I'm not stealing from those sites. I just pretend they don't exist. Edited by - posthum on 2/2/2010 12:48:23 PM [Link]
just_me Member 133 Posts 4/09	Posted - Feb 2 2010 : 1:06PM PayPal is an independent business and will not allow their services to be used to buy subscriptions to porn websites. Micro-transactions are not feasible either for porn companies, because the credit card fees are extremely high on such small amounts. ITunes can do it because Apple has the bargaining power of volume to dictate better terms with credit card companies. And the monthly subscription fees, remember that 50% to the referrer, 15% goes to the bill processor, another 10% goes to bandwidth costs. From your $30 subscription, only about $7 makes its way to the owner. But these are costs that sites simply cannot grow unless they pay them themselves. Yea there are many different different ways to sell porn, but there really are not any better ways than what the current structure is. Not until laws are put in place to effectively and globally prevent "user submitted content" to skirt past copyright laws... which I do not believe is even possible to enforce such laws without seriously jeopardizing our individual liberties... Edited by - just_me on 2/2/2010 1:08:08 PM [Link]
duefuss Member Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious - Brendan Gill 723 Posts 4/09	Posted - Feb 2 2010 : 1:52PM posthum wrote: ^ A payment model that doesn't require you to hand out your name, physical address and card number would certainly lead to a couple more sites making money from me. And no, I'm not stealing from those sites. I just pretend they don't exist. Edited by - posthum on 2/2/2010 12:48:23 PM Click to expand I've had luck using a bank card on an account in which I never keep more money than I need for 'net purchases. If someone tries to use the number, it just bounces, and, if they do, I'm notified and change the number. I know, also, that Discover and probably others have single use number generators for online purchases. BTW, I have never had a problem with cacellations or improper charges with sites that use the more common billing services like CCBill, etc. [Link]
posthum Member 349 Posts 12/09	Posted - Feb 2 2010 : 2:32PM You've had more luck than me. For the first porn site I wanted to sign up (one of kink's sites) I got a VISA prepaid card that wasn't accepted by the biller, so I just used my regular CC and hoped for the best. Until now no trouble, but then again, kink.com is probably different from some of the other studios in terms of business ethics. I admit I'm hitting a bit of a language barrier, is a bank card the one you use at the ATM? Also, don't the billing services that allow you to use those usually require your name, address, phone number and so on, too? That's something that really bugs me. I don't need possible future employers to have access to data about my porn viewing habits. Unfortunately a lot of porn sites and billing companies do pass on personal data combined with info about what you've purchased to 3rd parties (according to their privacy policies), CCBill being one of them. [Link]
duefuss Member Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious - Brendan Gill 723 Posts 4/09	Posted - Feb 2 2010 : 5:13PM Admittedly, I am too old to care who knows that I like porn, but I sure understand your hesitation. For information purposes, a bank card is a regular credit card issued by a bank that deducts the charges you make from the money in your account. If the money isn't there, the charge is declined. And, yes, you do have to give the name and address, not always the phone, when it iis used online. I was unaware that employers would bother getting that kind of specific information about your spending habits, but I wouldn't put it past them [Link]
dboy2612 Deactivated User 203 Posts 11/09	Posted - Feb 2 2010 : 9:11PM Irex, whats the point that you are trying to make? Has anyone here read the entire post he made? Edited by - dboy2612 on 2/2/2010 9:13:04 PM [Link]
duefuss Member Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious - Brendan Gill 723 Posts 4/09	Posted - Feb 2 2010 : 9:50PM Yep. I think Flash nailed it. [Link]
Irex Member 92 Posts 11/09	Posted - Feb 2 2010 : 9:52PM just_me wrote: And the monthly subscription fees, remember that 50% to the referrer, 15% goes to the bill processor, another 10% goes to bandwidth costs. From your $30 subscription, only about $7 makes its way to the owner. But these are costs that sites simply cannot grow unless they pay them themselves. Edited by - just_me on 2/2/2010 1:08:08 PM Click to expand Fifty percent goes to the referrer? That's an example of bad business. Someone who gets 50% of your money but doesn't do anything in the production or expenses? I don't care how much traffic they send to your site, you can't make money giving away half of your incoming revenue. That's crazy. My point is no one can come up with the porn version of paypal? What the fuck was paypal before it was paypal? Just a company with a good idea. Why can't porn do a version of iTunes? Most movies rent for 2 or 3 bucks. And with downloads there's no distribution, and no manufacturing costs. So boxes, shipping,etc. are no longer a factor. Most scenes don't cost that much to produce. And everybody claims they're losing money now. What's to lose if you try a different business model? You're already losing money. I don't want to sign up to fifty different websites and give out my credit card all over the place for one or two scenes from a site. But if I can download shit for a buck, and it goes to a paypal style reputable organization and they're the only ones who get my info, that I might do. And if I spend 300 bucks a year that way, that's 300 bucks you weren't getting before. And if there's 1,000 people like me (given the size of the net, not very hard) that's 300 grand you didn't have before. Keep in mind there's still regular subscriptions and people who pay every month, but given another option you just might get my money too. So here's my nutshell. Downloads, streaming sites, etc. are easy and that's a big reason people do it. make buying porn easier and maybe people will do it instead of illegally downloading. Is it a sure thing? Absolutely not. But if business is in the crapper already why not try something different? [Link]

duefuss Member Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious - Brendan Gill 723 Posts 4/09	Posted - Feb 2 2010 : 11:27PM I'm not in the porn business. I don't know if they're losing their shirts. I don't know what it costs to make porn, though from what I've gleaned at ADT, it ain't cheap. So how do you know all of this? If you're in the business, why be having this conversation at all? I'm not saying you are wrong about any of it, but I am saying that it probably isn't as black and white as you are making it, and it still sounds that you are trying to justify taking for nothing what others went to some trouble and expense to make for customers who value their product enough to pay fair value for it. In law there is a crime called, I believe 'recieiving stolen goods'. It means that you are comitting a crime in posessing even that which someone else actually took from its rightful owner. That's what downloading pirated video is. I'm not playing holier than thou. I download stuff off tube sites, too. I also buy used books that the author will never make a dime from and go to the library where I can read for free. I don't lose any sleep over any of that, because I buy new books too and I also pay for much of the porn I watch over VOD sites and producer's sites. If you want something and it costs money, pay for it. If you don't want your credit info on the 'net, then I guess you'll have to send them a check or something. You can still do that. I'd bet, though, that you don't hesitate buying other stuff off the 'net with your credit card. I've YET to have a problem with security on a porn site. The notion that the reputable ones are less secure that Amazon or L.L. Bean is unfounded. I've even had them be very gracious about not charging me for an additional month if I forgot to cancel. I think the day is soon when the porn business will have no choice but to do what the music biz did and clamp down. Remember the girl a while back that was successfully sued for I think close to two million bucks for pirating a few songs? That kind of thing almost HAS to happen in porn. Internet security is getting more sophisticated, and I'm not so sure the smug notion that if its on the 'net it can be stolen is going to be true for much longer. For sure, stealing porn is going to get a lot harder and a lot riskier. Everybody likes something for nothing and nobody's a saint, but, if you're decent, you don't steal just because you can. You pay others for their products and services, just like you rightly expect to be paid for yours. Capitalism only works because people want it to, because if it didn't we'd all be a lot worse off. [Link]
TeganLovesSara Deactivated User Are you smoking yet? 252 Posts 12/09	Posted - Feb 3 2010 : 12:05AM the people in charge of the porn industry are idiots. the riaa would have sued rapidshare,depositfiles, pornotub 50 zillion times in every court on the face of the earth by now, for what they allow people to do, and the blind eye they turn. Hell, rapidshare and depositfiles actually PAY people to upload shit. if i was a porn producer that fact right there would piss me off enough to do something. but alas, the porn industry is filled with nothing but back-bitting individuals. [Link]
ChodeMasterJ Perpetual Marxist 5405 Posts 4/03	Posted - Feb 3 2010 : 12:22AM posthum wrote: ^ A payment model that doesn't require you to hand out your name, physical address and card number would certainly lead to a couple more sites making money from me. And no, I'm not stealing from those sites. I just pretend they don't exist. Click to expand you can buy prepaid Visa/MasterCard debit cards at places like Walmart and other stores that act just like debit cards up to the amount you put on them and can be used online. That's one option. [Link]
ninja1 Senior Member 2939 Posts 1/08	Posted - Feb 3 2010 : 12:35AM ChodeMasterJ wrote: you can buy prepaid Visa/MasterCard debit cards at places like Walmart and other stores that act just like debit cards up to the amount you put on them and can be used online. That's one option. Click to expand Those prepaid cards still require that you provide your personal info. I'm guessing posthum wants to be an anonymous buyer. I've researched this extensively, and never found a way to do it or a card which allows anonymity. Edited by - ninja1 on 2/3/2010 12:55:07 AM [Link]
billywatson Manojob.com 939 Posts 1/07	Posted - Feb 3 2010 : 1:36AM TeganLovesSara wrote: the people in charge of the porn industry are idiots. if i was a porn producer that fact right there would piss me off enough to do something. but alas, the porn industry is filled with nothing but back-bitting individuals. Click to expand I concur. I'm trying my best to fight it, and I'm really trying not so much to back-bite as much as I am to make people aware. [Link]
billywatson Manojob.com 939 Posts 1/07	Posted - Feb 3 2010 : 1:37AM ninja1 wrote: ChodeMasterJ wrote: you can buy prepaid Visa/MasterCard debit cards at places like Walmart and other stores that act just like debit cards up to the amount you put on them and can be used online. That's one option. Click to expand Those prepaid cards still require that you provide your personal info. I'm guessing posthum wants to be an anonymous buyer. I've researched this extensively, and never found a way to do it or a card which allows anonymity. Edited by - ninja1 on 2/3/2010 12:55:07 AM Click to expand For a while there was PureVanilla -- but they bit the dust. [Link]
charn fubar 2880 Posts 12/09	Posted - Feb 3 2010 : 6:17AM stealing porn sounds like an easy way to be an outlaw, like being an internet tough guy. [Link]
posthum Member 349 Posts 12/09	Posted - Feb 3 2010 : 12:22PM ninja1 wrote: ChodeMasterJ wrote: you can buy prepaid Visa/MasterCard debit cards at places like Walmart and other stores that act just like debit cards up to the amount you put on them and can be used online. That's one option. Click to expand Those prepaid cards still require that you provide your personal info. I'm guessing posthum wants to be an anonymous buyer. I've researched this extensively, and never found a way to do it or a card which allows anonymity. Click to expand Not only this but also prepaid cards are often not accepted. That was the first thing I tried. [Link]
Flash Golden Age Classic 11018 Posts 5/01	Posted - Feb 3 2010 : 1:19PM Maybe I'm way off base here, but since porn requires you to be of a certain age to purchase, shouldn't one have to give some personal information. That's like trying to buy alcohol or smokes and getting pissed because the store wants to see ID. [Link]
spitty Member 730 Posts 12/04	Posted - Feb 3 2010 : 1:25PM I would purchase alot more movies if the directors here would explore more specific fetishes, like the Japanese do. I would also purchase more if they would find that middle ground for g/g movies, knock off the violence and increase the kissing, spitting, and body contact. And I would ESPECIALLY buy more if the camerawork was better. All this movement and shaking makes me seasick. Porn this decade has been HORRIBLE for that. [Link]

Len801 Deactivated User 754 Posts 9/07	Posted - Feb 3 2010 : 1:36PM TeganLovesSara wrote: the people in charge of the porn industry are idiots. the riaa would have sued rapidshare,depositfiles, pornotub 50 zillion times in every court on the face of the earth by now, for what they allow people to do, and the blind eye they turn. Hell, rapidshare and depositfiles actually PAY people to upload shit. if i was a porn producer that fact right there would piss me off enough to do something. but alas, the porn industry is filled with nothing but back-biting individuals. Click to expand There was a great announcement some weeks back that Warner Bros had completely opened its film library for downloading over the net. Go check and see what is available and the price they charge and how that product is delivered to you. You might as well try to get your hands on a physical DVD. The mainstream movie industry still has not got it and the porn industry is totally lost as well. Everyone seems to be on their own, with whatever method seems to suit them. They all claim they are losing money and blaming the pirates. Hell before the early 1980's, no one could practically and legitimately own a movie (on 16m, 8mm or whatever). It took forever for Chaplin (and his estate) to open their movie vaults with pristine prints. The copyright (on movies) was about 27 years then it got doubled, and recently now with all the money they are reaping from DVD sales, they have extended the copyright for ever! It still costs you about the same price for a DVD of a movie released 50 years years ago than a recent release. Itunes changed the playing field, but the movie industry (and porn industry) have not committed themselves to the same/similar type of format/formula. If a movie distributor/producer sells 25 copies of a movie (how much money do they actually pocket after they deduct production costs, duplication cost, shipping, etc) to say 10 video stores, and those DVD's are rented over a period of a month, say each movie/copy about 5 times that month, how many people will have actually seen the movie? If it was only a "sell-through market" would those same people have gone out and bought the move (whether mainstream or porn)? What profits has the producer/distributor made from it? Just look at the list of mainstream or adult titles that are released on DVD in a given month. If none were available for rent, how many of those movies would you actually go out and buy? If no video stores were in your area (or of large size), how would you even know of their release? In the old days of vinyl audio records, one friend would buy a 45 RPM o r a 33 and he would lend it to other friends to listen to (or invite friends over to his house to listen to them). There were no rental outlets for vinyls. The video/DVD revolution created awareness for movies (whether mainstream or porn) and a desire for the physical possession of it for repeated viewings. The digital age has added new complications, but not that they would not have been easily understood or anticipated. It is impossible to control the content (for ever) in today's technology, and suing and obtaining a conviction of an astronomical amount (into the millions) is only good for headlines on the entertainment/technology pages of a paper or net site. There has got to be a better, easier and cheaper delivery of the product to someone who wants it and is prepared to pay for it. Some form of piracy will always be there, but making the product expensive and difficult to get at will only exarcebate the problem even more. [Link]
duefuss Member Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious - Brendan Gill 723 Posts 4/09	Posted - Feb 3 2010 : 1:36PM But would you buy it if you could get it for nothing? That's the question here. [Link]
MikeSouth Deactivated User 511 Posts 11/02	Posted - Feb 3 2010 : 1:38PM OK lets address the credit card thing first there is no difference really whether you pay by paypal, ccbill, zombaio or netbilling. Your rights as a consumer are the same. None is any more secure than the others they are all VERY secure, more secure even than using your credit card in most retail establishments and WAY WAY more secure than writing a check. The problem comes with the abuse by the websites, and this problem is partially why paypal dropped adult processing. Many websites, and not just porn ones have existed primarily to screw you out of money. Like when you sign up theres a little check box at the very bottom of the page that signs you up and bills you for three more sites, and by default that check box is checked...this is called a pre checked cross sell and LOTS of websites do it. ( I dont, never have and never will use ANY deceptive practices) other tricks are to force you to sign up for additional sites before you can cancel, then when you try to cancel those they force you to sign up for other sites etc ...Theres lots of other scams, ghost billing, double billing and on and on. Now on the flip side theres lots of scams by the users to try to get a site for free, stolen credit card numbers, checking account scams and lots of others. For this reason honest sites like mine have to have a lot of information to confirm your credit card, including your address and so on. This info is passed to the credit card company and if it doesn't match the transaction fails. As a result gift cards and prepaid cards cant be used because even though they are good there isnt enough information for the billing company to verify that the credit card is legit. Now as for pay by he scen or per download. I tried that with ezmadedvd.com the success was limited it doesn't do that much business so I kind of let it go, maybe I will try again with it later, its still up if youd like to try it. Theres also clips4sale.com which is huge and does very very well with that model but it primarily offers fetish oriented content, but whatever your thing, its represented there thats for sure. As for stolen content how do you blame the customer when for example he downloads Jules jordan Videos for free off of a Brazzers owned website? Jules turns his head the other way when Brazzers does it because he distributes Brazzers. Porners have operated this way for as long as I have been in the biz, they place no real value on the content, you get it out there as fast and as cheap as possible and you produce as much as possible. Three months later it has no value and nobody much cared about spending money to protect it. Hopefully this at least clears up some of the muddy water. Is all this going to change...yes it is, streaming is going to become the preferred delivery method and it will be encrypted making it much harder to rip. Additionally your username and IP address will be encoded into every frame of the stream, so if you do rip it and post it to a tube site or a free site, it can be traced directly back to you and potentially your credit card will be hit for damages. [Link]
Jamie Gardner Member demicomix.com Carnal Comics - True Stories of Adult Film Stars 105 Posts 6/04	Posted - Feb 3 2010 : 1:39PM Many people focus on Brazzers but there are pay video on demand sites that are putting scenes on illegal tube sites. I noticed that eskimotube has many scenes sponsored by xmovie. When I went to look at this xmovie site, I discovered this is the same site as videobox. Among the companies that have had over 10 minutes of a scene put on eskimotube by videobox are Combat Zone, DVSX, Elegant Angel Productions, Lethal Hardcore, Mayhem, Metro, Notorious, Platinum X Pictures, Private, Red Light District, Sin City, Smash Pictures, etc.. Some of the scenes are over 29 minutes. There are scenes from other companies in which the scenes are below 10 minutes each. When companies give videobox the right to put movies on their pay site, does this also allow videobox the right to put scenes of theirs on free tube sites? Do companies have any say so on how long the free scenes can be? I looked at Videobox's list of porn companies and there over a hundred of them. Some well known companies that are not on videobox include Digital Playground, Jules Jordan Video, Wicked Pictures and Xplay. These companies are exceptions to the huge list of companies that are doing business with Videobox. http://www.myspace.com/jamieralphgardner http://www.demidemonessmovie.com http://www.demicomix.com/Carnal01.htm http://groups.yahoo.com/group/carnalcomics [Link]
duefuss Member Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious - Brendan Gill 723 Posts 4/09	Posted - Feb 3 2010 : 1:49PM Thank you, Mr. South for as understandable and complete a discussion of your business as I've ever had the pleasure to read. Edited by - duefuss on 2/3/2010 1:50:58 PM [Link]
posthum Member 349 Posts 12/09	Posted - Feb 3 2010 : 2:25PM MikeSouth wrote: [...]Now on the flip side theres lots of scams by the users to try to get a site for free, stolen credit card numbers, checking account scams and lots of others. For this reason honest sites like mine have to have a lot of information to confirm your credit card, including your address and so on. Click to expand Not to mention both the porn site and the biller can make an extra buck by selling the data [Link]
posthum Member 349 Posts 12/09	Posted - Feb 3 2010 : 2:30PM Flash wrote: Maybe I'm way off base here, but since porn requires you to be of a certain age to purchase, shouldn't one have to give some personal information. That's like trying to buy alcohol or smokes and getting pissed because the store wants to see ID. Click to expand It's not like I'm pissed at any site, there's just a missed business opportunity for both the sites and me. The age thing I don't think is much of an argument, any kid can 'borrow' their dad's CC if they're willing to catch hell as soon as the balance gets sent to him. [Link]
MikeSouth Deactivated User 511 Posts 11/02	Posted - Feb 3 2010 : 4:17PM duefuss yer welcome man it actually benefits every legit site owner when the consumer is educated, so I dont mind at all, matter of fact Im happy to try to help...nothing would please me more than to see all the scumbags out of biz, of course it wont happen but. As to the guy saying I can make money selling your name and address and all that, actually you are wrong, I dont even have access to any of that info I get a confirmation email with a transaction ID your name login and password, thats it. As for the billing company selling that info...I suppose they could but they swear they dont, paypal on the other hand DOES, as does your bank, the card issuing bank and pretty much everyone else. Matter of fact I know less about my customers than they know about me...way less [Link]
Prophit Member 378 Posts 1/07	Posted - Feb 3 2010 : 4:30PM MikeSouth wrote: Now as for pay by he scen or per download. I tried that with ezmadedvd.com the success was limited it doesn't do that much business so I kind of let it go, maybe I will try again with it later, its still up if youd like to try it. Click to expand Maybe it was not a success because you have to register before being able to view what's even available? Whenever I come across a site that asks for my personal details before even letting me see any content the first thing I do is go away. [Link]
Len801 Deactivated User 754 Posts 9/07	Posted - Feb 3 2010 : 4:46PM Prophit wrote: MikeSouth wrote: Now as for pay by he scene or per download. I tried that with ezmadedvd.com the success was limited it doesn't do that much business so I kind of let it go, maybe I will try again with it later, its still up if youd like to try it. Click to expand Maybe it was not a success because you have to register before being able to view what's even available? Whenever I come across a site that asks for my personal details before even letting me see any content the first thing I do is go away. Click to expand I think that's the main problem for many many porn sites. They won't show you anything at all (their "preview" sections are a joke) until you join and pay. [Link]

MikeSouth Deactivated User 511 Posts 11/02	Posted - Feb 3 2010 : 4:49PM Hey you are missing the obvious...you do have to register because there is hardcore content on there and legally I have to at least make a small effort to keep kids out. You can register with any info you like and it will work but when you choose to purchase the info has to be correct or the transaction will fail. As for that particular site I dont have any choice the information and the flow is built into the shopping cart software (X-Cart) but nothing is validated until you place an order. [Link]
Prophit Member 378 Posts 1/07	Posted - Feb 3 2010 : 5:13PM Len801 wrote: Prophit wrote: MikeSouth wrote: Now as for pay by he scene or per download. I tried that with ezmadedvd.com the success was limited it doesn't do that much business so I kind of let it go, maybe I will try again with it later, its still up if youd like to try it. Click to expand Maybe it was not a success because you have to register before being able to view what's even available? Whenever I come across a site that asks for my personal details before even letting me see any content the first thing I do is go away. Click to expand I think that's the main problem for many many porn sites. They won't show you anything at all (their "preview" sections are a joke) until you join and pay. Click to expand That's true of course but at least they let you see SOMETHING. On Mike South's site I see practically nothing. Only people who are already familiar with his work are gonna register at that site. Companies shouldn't underestimate how tired people are of having to register at so many sites in their lives. I certainly am, so I'm only gonna do it when I know for sure it's worth it. Also I usually only subscribe to paysites that grant you a look at their member's area before joining or at least provide enough samples. [Link]
Len801 Deactivated User 754 Posts 9/07	Posted - Feb 3 2010 : 5:20PM duefuss wrote: But would you buy it if you could get it for nothing? That's the question here. Click to expand That is a VERY difficult question, and everyone would have a different answer. There is the question of what the product costs, whether I can commit my hard-earned money to it, whether I find the price fair, if and where it is easily available (shipping costs have to be considered, package may be examined by customs if ordering from another country, and of course relevant duty fees may be involved). Then there are problems with privacy concerns (what if you are living with parents/girlfriend/wife and family who does not much appreciate you going out buying porn from a sex shop or ordering from a on-line distributor). How do you hide the porn, and the porn billings charged to a credit card when you are living with someone? Would you want your mother/girlfriend/wife/young son/daughter finding the package in the mail box? Let us say for sake of argument, that you subscribe to a number of satellite channels that program TV shows, movies, etc. Let us say you pay $4 to watch the last STAR TREK movie, but you record it and burn it on a DVD. The same movie is available for sale (new/used) at a number of stores in your area (and distributors on line, etc). Is what you have done an act of theft? Have you stolen what does not belong to you? Have you deprived Paramount of money? Let us consider a similar situation where I go to the local video store and rent the same STAR TREK movie for $4 and make a copy for myself (not for resale to anyone else, nor to post it on line for others to download). Have I stolen money/actual physical product from the video store or deprived Paramount of money? What if my friend comes over to my house and brings 3 other buddies with him and his STAR TREK DVD, and we watch it all together over a beer, have we all committed a criminal act? Does that mean 4 people have watched a movie technically free? Is that "fair use"? If I go to the local library and pick up a copy of a DVD and bring it home and watch it several times, is the movie distributor out of pocket, and have I committed a crime (I have watched something free)? Now look at the way internet providers sell their service. What is the first thing you read in their advertisements (high speed, up-loading and downloading, right?). What do you think most young people will be doing with their PC's? Sending photos of their dog Rex to grandma? What services and files are all the Rapidshare, Netload, Hotfile, etc providing? Again, baby pictures/home videos to their relatives, right? [Link]
Clam Digger Deactivated User Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good. 2268 Posts 1/05	Posted - Feb 3 2010 : 5:37PM duefuss wrote: ....... I'm not playing holier than thou. I download stuff off tube sites, too. I also buy used books that the author will never make a dime from and go to the library where I can read for free. I don't lose any sleep over any of that, because I buy new books too and I also pay for much of the porn I watch over VOD sites and producer's sites. If you want something and it costs money, pay for it. If you don't want your credit info on the 'net, then I guess you'll have to send them a check or something. You can still do that. I'd bet, though, that you don't hesitate buying other stuff off the 'net with your credit card. ....... Click to expand The porn industry is full of crap. It is very well known in industry circles that Brazzer's owns most of the tube sites, and that Jules Jordan, for one is in bed with them. And, guess what, nobody is doing anything about it. I also think it silly that this forun frown on "tube sites", when posters that openly work for Brazzers post here with impunity. [Link]
MikeSouth Deactivated User 511 Posts 11/02	Posted - Feb 3 2010 : 6:26PM Prophit wrote: That's true of course but at least they let you see SOMETHING. On Mike South's site I see practically nothing. Only people who are already familiar with his work are gonna register at that site. Companies shouldn't underestimate how tired people are of having to register at so many sites in their lives. I certainly am, so I'm only gonna do it when I know for sure it's worth it. Also I usually only subscribe to paysites that grant you a look at their member's area before joining or at least provide enough samples. Click to expand So you think it would be better with only soft content as a preview and no registration...I could do that...when I redo it I will remember that [Link]
Tobias Deactivated User 475 Posts 1/09	Posted - Feb 3 2010 : 6:30PM Clam Digger wrote: It is very well known in industry circles that Brazzer's owns most of the tube sites, and that Jules Jordan, for one is in bed with them. And, guess what, nobody is doing anything about it. Click to expand In layman terms, can you please explain what exactly this means? Why would Brazzers and Jules Jordan give away free content on tube sites? Sorry, but a lot of us don't know these answer to this question. [Link]
Clam Digger Deactivated User Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good. 2268 Posts 1/05	Posted - Feb 3 2010 : 6:53PM Well you might check Mikesouth.com and look for a series of posts made around Jan. 20. I was kind of surprised he didn't mention it in his last post here. [Link]
Tobias Deactivated User 475 Posts 1/09	Posted - Feb 3 2010 : 7:19PM I read the post but still don't understand what exactly you want done. From what I understand, tube sites are operated as "teasers" to get folks to buy or rent. Like YouTube, some copyrighted material gets uploaded without the copyright holder's permission. But, it's not the tube site's responsibility to enforce copyrights nor are they responsible for every bit of content that is uploaded. Like YouTube, they can warn their users, but beyond that, what can be done? [Link]
MikeSouth Deactivated User 511 Posts 11/02	Posted - Feb 3 2010 : 7:23PM Bottom line is this is how it works with tube sites they claim that users submit content which gives them safe harbor under the DMCA rules, what this means is if i find my content on a tube site I have to send the site owner a DMCA notice and at that point he has I think 48 hrs to remove the content, which they do....but within another 48 hrs another "user" posts t back and the cycle starts all over again. Now ...Brazzers owns the worlds largest tube sites, they use them to generate traffic to Brazzers owned sites by using sponsor links and the like on the tube sites, you dont ever see Brazzers owned content on Brazzers tube sites...funny how that works. You do see Jules Content all over them, interestingly enough. You also find pretty much everyone else in porn there too...I recently watched Jules new releases appear there on the same day they were released to video stores, ditto Digital Playground, Wicked, Private and others and it isnt just teasers, its full scenes and often full movies. But they get a pass from Jules because he distributes Brazzers DVDs In a nutshell thats how it works, and thats how a tubesite makes money, because it drives traffic, when you combine that traffic with the scams that a lot of these guys are famous for like I mentioned before a single signup can easily be worth over 100 bucks, so its lucrative, very lucrative. Edited by - MikeSouth on 2/3/2010 7:25:00 PM [Link]
Aplus Senior Member 1431 Posts 5/05	Posted - Feb 3 2010 : 8:00PM MikeSouth wrote: But they get a pass from Jules because he distributes Brazzers DVDs Edited by - MikeSouth on 2/3/2010 7:25:00 PM Click to expand Yeah, but isn't controlling and getting paid for your own content, whether directly or indirectly, ultimately the idea...well at least one of the ideas. Isn't something better than nothing? Not defending, just asking Mike. [Link]
Clam Digger Deactivated User Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good. 2268 Posts 1/05	Posted - Feb 3 2010 : 8:07PM ^While everybody else gets screwed? Besides that, we hear nothing but how the porn business sucks and how much revenue is being lost to "the tube" sites from various individuals who past here and are in the business, but they don't work together to stop it. Meanwhile on this forum you can be cast out into outer darkness if you mention "tube sites" or, God forbid, link to them because you wish to identify a scene or a performer in order to make a purchase. I say fuck'em all. Edited by - Clam Digger on 2/3/2010 8:15:16 PM [Link]
ChodeMasterJ Perpetual Marxist 5405 Posts 4/03	Posted - Feb 4 2010 : 2:05AM ninja1 wrote: Those prepaid cards still require that you provide your personal info. Click to expand Hmmm...if that's the case, why didn't I have to provide ANY info for the 2 i bought around Xmas time? [Link]
ninja1 Senior Member 2939 Posts 1/08	Posted - Feb 4 2010 : 2:25AM ChodeMasterJ wrote: ninja1 wrote: Those prepaid cards still require that you provide your personal info. Click to expand Hmmm...if that's the case, why didn't I have to provide ANY info for the 2 i bought around Xmas time? Click to expand I dunno. Did you actually use them to buy stuff? All the ones I have researched will let you purchase them (You give money to the cashier, cashier gives you the card), but you still have to perform further registration (i.e. real name and real address and maybe SSN) before the card can be activated for use. You do the "further registration" via mail or by internet or something, not at the point of purchase. At least I think that is how it works. It's been a while since I was investigating it. What cards did you purchase and from where? Do they work with online porn purchases? Edited by - ninja1 on 2/4/2010 2:28:01 AM [Link]
duefuss Member Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious - Brendan Gill 723 Posts 4/09	Posted - Feb 4 2010 : 10:50AM MikeSouth wrote: duefuss yer welcome man it actually benefits every legit site owner when the consumer is educated, so I dont mind at all, matter of fact Im happy to try to help...nothing would please me more than to see all the scumbags out of biz, of course it wont happen but. Click to expand Mr. South, in another thread I rather windily stated my view that the porn industry would benefit from organizing to promote itself. I said producers should come together to oppose porn prosecution, prosecute piracy, and exert political influence for their common benefit. I think that they should start by publishing accurate data about the general size of the industry: gross sales, employment, etc. that would indicate to Washington the REAL financial benefit and popularity of porn and political clout of porn watchers. I would very much like to hear tyour opinion, as an experienced major producer, of the feasability and wisdom of my view. edited for the usual shitty typing. Edited by - duefuss on 2/4/2010 10:52:39 AM [Link]
julesjordanvideo JulesJordan.com Professional Perverts 1003 Posts 9/01	Posted - Feb 4 2010 : 11:21AM Let me correct Mike, no tube sites get a "pass" from me. I send out letters everyday to all tube sites and people who have my content on their sites....I have never seen one of our new releases in its entirety on a tube site, the day of its release.....torrent? yes...tube no. Mike can bash Brazzers all he wants but he has tons of links on his site directly to Brazzers and guess what? he makes money off of these links.....they pay his rent!....I even informed mike of a link on his site, and its still up...so...I guess they get a "pass" when it comes to Mike making money off of them... just to correct you duefuss, Mike has never been a "major producer" of anything, except bs! I'll say it again, if you have great content tubes are not gonna kill you, my content is the most abused on all the tubes, but I can identify it and get it down...and its certainly not killing my company. its funny the angriest people in these threads are people that have 0 content being put on any of these sites (except for Brandon I suppose). [Link]
duefuss Member Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious - Brendan Gill 723 Posts 4/09	Posted - Feb 4 2010 : 11:36AM Regardless, Mr. Jordan, of your opinion of any of your fellow producers, would it not be beneficial to both you and they to join forces in combating your common difficulties as an industry? [Link]

Author

Post

Irex
Member

92 Posts
11/09

Posted - Feb 2 2010 : 1:07AM

I don't like the idea of free illegal downloads.
Really, I don't.
Like a kid in a candy store, when it first became possible, I have to admit the idea appealed to me. And I won't confirm or deny whether or not I did download (mainly because it's always a bad idea to ever admit to any crime if you committed it or not.)...
But let's say for the sake of argument, I did download.
At first, I might not have thought much of it. After all, I maintained a xrentdvd account up until August of 2009. I was still getting movies the old fashioned way. And the stuff I was looking at download-wise was a lot of older, hard to find rarities, stuff that may never come out on DVD or even pop up on VHS.
If no one was going to put it out, why not have it for the click of a mouse?
So that may have been excuse number one.
The next slippery slope was the high priced websites. First off, 29.95 for a month? A dollar a day for six or seven scenes of new footage? And having to give my credit card in perpetuity? And hearing nightmares about cancelling out of sites, being charged after not wanting to be a member any longer? Sounds terrible to me. The choice of downloading a scene and incurring the worst case scenario, a virus that might wipe out my hard drive and cost 200 bucks to fix still sounds better than having my credit card in someone else's hands, to me.
So that may have been excuse number two.
Now we get to the movies themselves. And let's face it, we can hardly call them movies anymore. There's no narrative, no story, barely a theme. Even picking up a MILF movie often means the actresses are simply in their twenties, thirties and forties. The concept of a MILF is more complicated than simply their child bearing age. It has to do with their station in life and maybe their longing for some excitement and thrills in a way a 20 year old girl isn't. So I might look at a movie and find there is maybe one scene, ONE SCENE, where the initial concept is actually approached that makes it worth a look. And I have to buy or rent an entire movie where little or no effort was made to see it.
Or there's some uploader who broke the movie down piece by piece, each scene is available as a separate download and I can ignore the girls who I don't find attractive and the ones who don't do good work and the ones working with a guy who fucks up the scene by putting the focus on himself. Oh my, that certainly is seductive.
So that may have been excuse number three.
But to be honest, it's not that appealing after a while.
It's like your working at a supermarket, and after hours you and your buddies take a shopping cart and steal every variety of potato chips.
Naturally your first instinct is going to be, take a bunch of your favorites and throw some new ones in there as well, try out flavors you didn't even think you'd like- because they're free! Somebody's paying for it, but they're free for you.
However, now you've got five hundred bags of potato chips. You didn't want them, but it didn't cost you anything. After a while you're eating two, three chips out of the bag and throwing them away because it's pointless to eat the crap you didn't want in the first place.
I don't want bad porn for free.
But the current economic model just doesn't work. It makes it very easy to rationalize stealing.
Why aren't there other pay modes besides credit card to allay my fears? I can buy virtually everything else in the world with paypal. Why not porn too? I rarely deal with an online merchant of any sort who doesn't allow me to put a barrier between my credit info and them.
And why must I pay for a month? Why can't I download according to what content I want? I can buy a song that cost ten grand to produce for 99 cents on iTunes, yet if I only want two or three scenes from a porn site I have to pay 30 bucks?
If the option is I pay a few bucks for a few scenes or your content remains unseen, wouldn't you rather make five, ten bucks as opposed to nothing?
And doesn't it make sense to actually make movies that somehow hit the theme target in a really powerful fashion? I hate brazzers and their relative lack of IR output, but I must admit they usually put five minutes worth of set up and follow through in their ideas.
I'm honestly not trying to justify theft, but it seems like porn has gotten stuck in this mindset where they shouldn't have to meet the consumer's needs in any new fashion. No changing the way we pay for it, no effort in production and no new ideas in how to price it.

[Link]

Tobias
Deactivated User

475 Posts
1/09

Posted - Feb 2 2010 : 2:04AM

The mods will shut down this thread soon - Since we're not supposed to acknowledge that pirating even exists. Is there a solution to the problem? Maybe. Maybe not. But, is it really worth losing sleep over?

[Link]

Mutt
Member

12 Posts
2/10

Posted - Feb 2 2010 : 2:05AM

Brazzers are the biggest thieves of adult video content on the planet. fuck em.
steal every fucking Brazzers scene or DVD you can.
there's a ton of quality porn out there in every niche imaginable - 30 dollars a month is not expensive considering one DVD costs that almost. check out a good review site and your credit card won't get fucked with - the good review sites check that all out.

[Link]

Flash

Golden Age Classic

11018 Posts
5/01

Posted - Feb 2 2010 : 2:25AM

This is all just rationalizing. There are plenty of methods to legally obtain adult movies if you so choose. You can rent DVDs a la carte from most online rental outlets or via monthly subscriptions. You can watch VOD where you pay for the movie, a scene, or 10 minutes if that's what makes you happy. You can even pick your scene. There are still brick and mortar rental outlets where you can go and pay cash to rent an adult movie if you so wish. There are some adult stores that can take PayPal now. Bear in mind, until recently adult stores could not accept PayPal. It wasn't a choice. PayPal wouldn't let them. And there are adult films with narrative. Try feature films. There are still plenty out with a complete story from start to finish. And the ITunes example doesn't work because more people will buy the song than will buy a scene. So either they charge more than 99 cents for a scene or cut down the cost of making the scene. You know, things like the lighting that allow you to see the action. Or the skilled camera operator capturing it for you.
Basically it comes down to you chose to steal or you don't. Anything else is just rationalizing why you are doing what you are doing.

[Link]

BlackSix

All-Star Member

pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world
12377 Posts
9/07

Posted - Feb 2 2010 : 2:34AM

I use VOD all the time and watched way more porn than I could ever have even downloaded.

[Link]

posthum
Member

349 Posts
12/09

Posted - Feb 2 2010 : 9:36AM

The idea of a review site for porn sites was new to me, so after reading Mutt's post I did some some searching. Turns out those reviews praise sites that have been confirmed in several ADT threads (too lazy to dig up links) to deploy all sorts of not so nice tactics. Be it pre-checking well hidden boxes for extra memberships, not letting you cancel or even billing you after you've finally managed to cancel.
This post is not meant to justify stealing content, just a warning to everyone who thinks they can safely join any porn site that gets some nice words in a review. How do you know the person behind the reviews isn't on the payroll of several porn sites anyway.

Edited by - posthum on 2/2/2010 9:38:54 AM

[Link]

Irex
Member

92 Posts
11/09

Posted - Feb 2 2010 : 12:39PM

Flash wrote:
This is all just rationalizing. There are plenty of methods to legally obtain adult movies if you so choose. You can rent DVDs a la carte from most online rental outlets or via monthly subscriptions. You can watch VOD where you pay for the movie, a scene, or 10 minutes if that's what makes you happy. You can even pick your scene. There are still brick and mortar rental outlets where you can go and pay cash to rent an adult movie if you so wish. There are some adult stores that can take PayPal now. Bear in mind, until recently adult stores could not accept PayPal. It wasn't a choice. PayPal wouldn't let them. And there are adult films with narrative. Try feature films. There are still plenty out with a complete story from start to finish. And the ITunes example doesn't work because more people will buy the song than will buy a scene. So either they charge more than 99 cents for a scene or cut down the cost of making the scene. You know, things like the lighting that allow you to see the action. Or the skilled camera operator capturing it for you.
Basically it comes down to you chose to steal or you don't. Anything else is just rationalizing why you are doing what you are doing.
Click to expand

The skilled camera operator? are you watching the same gonzo porn I am?
If you've never run a red light, cheated on your taxes, left work early, snuck out on a girlfriend, etc. congratulations, you're a far better person than 99% of the world. Some of us do that kind of stuff and some people steal porn. People rationalize every day.
I don't think it's right, but I also think it's silly for porn to work from a business model that became obsolete in 2002.
Also brick and mortar porn rental is practically non-existent now.
pay per porn is still credit card based and you often have to buy a huge block of time. I've looked into it.
The number of narrative films is practically zero and they're often shot softcore style ala Vivid.
I can keep going back and forth with you but I have a fear it'll simply get me swatted down.
Look I agree stealing porn is wrong, I agree that people rationalize it. But I'm also pointing out that I think online porn works from an old and bad business model.
I don't have the answers but then my livelihood isn't dependent on me figuring out a new model either. But people in the industry should be looking at better ways to make their product accessible, rather than just blaming illegal downloads for all their woes.

[Link]

posthum
Member

349 Posts
12/09

Posted - Feb 2 2010 : 12:47PM

^ A payment model that doesn't require you to hand out your name, physical address and card number would certainly lead to a couple more sites making money from me. And no, I'm not stealing from those sites. I just pretend they don't exist.
Edited by - posthum on 2/2/2010 12:48:23 PM

[Link]

just_me
Member

133 Posts
4/09

Posted - Feb 2 2010 : 1:06PM

PayPal is an independent business and will not allow their services to be used to buy subscriptions to porn websites.
Micro-transactions are not feasible either for porn companies, because the credit card fees are extremely high on such small amounts. ITunes can do it because Apple has the bargaining power of volume to dictate better terms with credit card companies.
And the monthly subscription fees, remember that 50% to the referrer, 15% goes to the bill processor, another 10% goes to bandwidth costs. From your $30 subscription, only about $7 makes its way to the owner. But these are costs that sites simply cannot grow unless they pay them themselves.
Yea there are many different different ways to sell porn, but there really are not any better ways than what the current structure is. Not until laws are put in place to effectively and globally prevent "user submitted content" to skirt past copyright laws... which I do not believe is even possible to enforce such laws without seriously jeopardizing our individual liberties...
Edited by - just_me on 2/2/2010 1:08:08 PM

[Link]

duefuss
Member

Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious - Brendan Gill
723 Posts
4/09

Posted - Feb 2 2010 : 1:52PM

I've had luck using a bank card on an account in which I never keep more money than I need for 'net purchases. If someone tries to use the number, it just bounces, and, if they do, I'm notified and change the number.
I know, also, that Discover and probably others have single use number generators for online purchases.
BTW, I have never had a problem with cacellations or improper charges with sites that use the more common billing services like CCBill, etc.

[Link]

posthum
Member

349 Posts
12/09

Posted - Feb 2 2010 : 2:32PM

You've had more luck than me. For the first porn site I wanted to sign up (one of kink's sites) I got a VISA prepaid card that wasn't accepted by the biller, so I just used my regular CC and hoped for the best. Until now no trouble, but then again, kink.com is probably different from some of the other studios in terms of business ethics.
I admit I'm hitting a bit of a language barrier, is a bank card the one you use at the ATM?
Also, don't the billing services that allow you to use those usually require your name, address, phone number and so on, too?
That's something that really bugs me. I don't need possible future employers to have access to data about my porn viewing habits.
Unfortunately a lot of porn sites and billing companies *do* pass on personal data combined with info about what you've purchased to 3rd parties (according to their privacy policies), CCBill being one of them.

[Link]

duefuss
Member

Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious - Brendan Gill
723 Posts
4/09

Posted - Feb 2 2010 : 5:13PM

Admittedly, I am too old to care who knows that I like porn, but I sure understand your hesitation.
For information purposes, a bank card is a regular credit card issued by a bank that deducts the charges you make from the money in your account. If the money isn't there, the charge is declined. And, yes, you do have to give the name and address, not always the phone, when it iis used online.
I was unaware that employers would bother getting that kind of specific information about your spending habits, but I wouldn't put it past them

[Link]

dboy2612
Deactivated User

203 Posts
11/09

Posted - Feb 2 2010 : 9:11PM

Irex, whats the point that you are trying to make? Has anyone here read the entire post he made?
Edited by - dboy2612 on 2/2/2010 9:13:04 PM

[Link]

duefuss
Member

Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious - Brendan Gill
723 Posts
4/09

Posted - Feb 2 2010 : 9:50PM

Yep. I think Flash nailed it.

[Link]

Irex
Member

92 Posts
11/09

Posted - Feb 2 2010 : 9:52PM

Fifty percent goes to the referrer? That's an example of bad business. Someone who gets 50% of your money but doesn't do anything in the production or expenses? I don't care how much traffic they send to your site, you can't make money giving away half of your incoming revenue.
That's crazy.
My point is no one can come up with the porn version of paypal?
What the fuck was paypal before it was paypal? Just a company with a good idea.
Why can't porn do a version of iTunes?
Most movies rent for 2 or 3 bucks. And with downloads there's no distribution, and no manufacturing costs. So boxes, shipping,etc. are no longer a factor.
Most scenes don't cost that much to produce. And everybody claims they're losing money now. What's to lose if you try a different business model? You're already losing money.
I don't want to sign up to fifty different websites and give out my credit card all over the place for one or two scenes from a site.
But if I can download shit for a buck, and it goes to a paypal style reputable organization and they're the only ones who get my info, that I might do.
And if I spend 300 bucks a year that way, that's 300 bucks you weren't getting before. And if there's 1,000 people like me (given the size of the net, not very hard) that's 300 grand you didn't have before.
Keep in mind there's still regular subscriptions and people who pay every month, but given another option you just might get my money too.
So here's my nutshell. Downloads, streaming sites, etc. are easy and that's a big reason people do it. make buying porn easier and maybe people will do it instead of illegally downloading.
Is it a sure thing? Absolutely not.
But if business is in the crapper already why not try something different?

[Link]

duefuss
Member

Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious - Brendan Gill
723 Posts
4/09

Posted - Feb 2 2010 : 11:27PM

I'm not in the porn business. I don't know if they're losing their shirts. I don't know what it costs to make porn, though from what I've gleaned at ADT, it ain't cheap. So how do you know all of this? If you're in the business, why be having this conversation at all?
I'm not saying you are wrong about any of it, but I am saying that it probably isn't as black and white as you are making it, and it still sounds that you are trying to justify taking for nothing what others went to some trouble and expense to make for customers who value their product enough to pay fair value for it.
In law there is a crime called, I believe 'recieiving stolen goods'. It means that you are comitting a crime in posessing even that which someone else actually took from its rightful owner. That's what downloading pirated video is.
I'm not playing holier than thou. I download stuff off tube sites, too. I also buy used books that the author will never make a dime from and go to the library where I can read for free. I don't lose any sleep over any of that, because I buy new books too and I also pay for much of the porn I watch over VOD sites and producer's sites.
If you want something and it costs money, pay for it. If you don't want your credit info on the 'net, then I guess you'll have to send them a check or something. You can still do that. I'd bet, though, that you don't hesitate buying other stuff off the 'net with your credit card.
I've YET to have a problem with security on a porn site. The notion that the reputable ones are less secure that Amazon or L.L. Bean is unfounded. I've even had them be very gracious about not charging me for an additional month if I forgot to cancel.
I think the day is soon when the porn business will have no choice but to do what the music biz did and clamp down. Remember the girl a while back that was successfully sued for I think close to two million bucks for pirating a few songs? That kind of thing almost HAS to happen in porn.
Internet security is getting more sophisticated, and I'm not so sure the smug notion that if its on the 'net it can be stolen is going to be true for much longer. For sure, stealing porn is going to get a lot harder and a lot riskier.
Everybody likes something for nothing and nobody's a saint, but, if you're decent, you don't steal just because you can. You pay others for their products and services, just like you rightly expect to be paid for yours. Capitalism only works because people want it to, because if it didn't we'd all be a lot worse off.

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TeganLovesSara
Deactivated User

Are you smoking yet?
252 Posts
12/09

Posted - Feb 3 2010 : 12:05AM

the people in charge of the porn industry are idiots.
the riaa would have sued rapidshare,depositfiles, pornotub 50 zillion times in every court on the face of the earth by now, for what they allow people to do, and the blind eye they turn.
Hell, rapidshare and depositfiles actually PAY people to upload shit.
if i was a porn producer that fact right there would piss me off enough to do something.
but alas, the porn industry is filled with nothing but back-bitting individuals.

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ChodeMasterJ
Perpetual Marxist

5405 Posts
4/03

Posted - Feb 3 2010 : 12:22AM

you can buy prepaid Visa/MasterCard debit cards at places like Walmart and other stores that act just like debit cards up to the amount you put on them and can be used online. That's one option.

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ninja1
Senior Member

2939 Posts
1/08

Posted - Feb 3 2010 : 12:35AM

Those prepaid cards still require that you provide your personal info. I'm guessing posthum wants to be an anonymous buyer. I've researched this extensively, and never found a way to do it or a card which allows anonymity.
Edited by - ninja1 on 2/3/2010 12:55:07 AM

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billywatson
Manojob.com

939 Posts
1/07

Posted - Feb 3 2010 : 1:36AM

I concur.
I'm trying my best to fight it, and I'm really trying not so much to back-bite as much as I am to make people aware.

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billywatson
Manojob.com

939 Posts
1/07

Posted - Feb 3 2010 : 1:37AM

For a while there was PureVanilla -- but they bit the dust.

[Link]

charn
fubar

2880 Posts
12/09

Posted - Feb 3 2010 : 6:17AM

stealing porn sounds like an easy way to be an outlaw, like being an internet tough guy.

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posthum
Member

349 Posts
12/09

Posted - Feb 3 2010 : 12:22PM

Not only this but also prepaid cards are often not accepted. That was the first thing I tried.

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Flash

Golden Age Classic

11018 Posts
5/01

Posted - Feb 3 2010 : 1:19PM

Maybe I'm way off base here, but since porn requires you to be of a certain age to purchase, shouldn't one have to give some personal information. That's like trying to buy alcohol or smokes and getting pissed because the store wants to see ID.

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spitty
Member

730 Posts
12/04

Posted - Feb 3 2010 : 1:25PM

I would purchase alot more movies if the directors here would explore more specific fetishes, like the Japanese do. I would also purchase more if they would find that middle ground for g/g movies, knock off the violence and increase the kissing, spitting, and body contact.
And I would ESPECIALLY buy more if the camerawork was better. All this movement and shaking makes me seasick. Porn this decade has been HORRIBLE for that.

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Len801
Deactivated User

754 Posts
9/07

Posted - Feb 3 2010 : 1:36PM

There was a great announcement some weeks back that Warner Bros had completely opened its film library for downloading over the net. Go check and see what is available and the price they charge and how that product is delivered to you. You might as well try to get your hands on a physical DVD.
The mainstream movie industry still has not got it and the porn industry is totally lost as well. Everyone seems to be on their own, with whatever method seems to suit them. They all claim they are losing money and blaming the pirates.
Hell before the early 1980's, no one could practically and legitimately own a movie (on 16m, 8mm or whatever). It took forever for Chaplin (and his estate) to open their movie vaults with pristine prints.
The copyright (on movies) was about 27 years then it got doubled, and recently now with all the money they are reaping from DVD sales, they have extended the copyright for ever! It still costs you about the same price for a DVD of a movie released 50 years years ago than a recent release.
Itunes changed the playing field, but the movie industry (and porn industry) have not committed themselves to the same/similar type of format/formula.
If a movie distributor/producer sells 25 copies of a movie (how much money do they actually pocket after they deduct production costs, duplication cost, shipping, etc) to say 10 video stores, and those DVD's are rented over a period of a month, say each movie/copy about 5 times that month, how many people will have actually seen the movie? If it was only a "sell-through market" would those same people have gone out and bought the move (whether mainstream or porn)? What profits has the producer/distributor made from it? Just look at the list of mainstream or adult titles that are released on DVD in a given month. If none were available for rent, how many of those movies would you actually go out and buy? If no video stores were in your area (or of large size), how would you even know of their release?
In the old days of vinyl audio records, one friend would buy a 45 RPM o r a 33 and he would lend it to other friends to listen to (or invite friends over to his house to listen to them). There were no rental outlets for vinyls. The video/DVD revolution created awareness for movies (whether mainstream or porn) and a desire for the physical possession of it for repeated viewings. The digital age has added new complications, but not that they would not have been easily understood or anticipated. It is impossible to control the content (for ever) in today's technology, and suing and obtaining a conviction of an astronomical amount (into the millions) is only good for headlines on the entertainment/technology pages of a paper or net site. There has got to be a better, easier and cheaper delivery of the product to someone who wants it and is prepared to pay for it.
Some form of piracy will always be there, but making the product expensive and difficult to get at will only exarcebate the problem even more.

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duefuss
Member

Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious - Brendan Gill
723 Posts
4/09

Posted - Feb 3 2010 : 1:36PM

But would you buy it if you could get it for nothing? That's the question here.

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MikeSouth
Deactivated User

511 Posts
11/02

Posted - Feb 3 2010 : 1:38PM

OK lets address the credit card thing first
there is no difference really whether you pay by paypal, ccbill, zombaio or netbilling. Your rights as a consumer are the same. None is any more secure than the others they are all VERY secure, more secure even than using your credit card in most retail establishments and WAY WAY more secure than writing a check.
The problem comes with the abuse by the websites, and this problem is partially why paypal dropped adult processing. Many websites, and not just porn ones have existed primarily to screw you out of money. Like when you sign up theres a little check box at the very bottom of the page that signs you up and bills you for three more sites, and by default that check box is checked...this is called a pre checked cross sell and LOTS of websites do it. ( I dont, never have and never will use ANY deceptive practices) other tricks are to force you to sign up for additional sites before you can cancel, then when you try to cancel those they force you to sign up for other sites etc ...Theres lots of other scams, ghost billing, double billing and on and on.
Now on the flip side theres lots of scams by the users to try to get a site for free, stolen credit card numbers, checking account scams and lots of others. For this reason honest sites like mine have to have a lot of information to confirm your credit card, including your address and so on. This info is passed to the credit card company and if it doesn't match the transaction fails. As a result gift cards and prepaid cards cant be used because even though they are good there isnt enough information for the billing company to verify that the credit card is legit.
Now as for pay by he scen or per download. I tried that with ezmadedvd.com the success was limited it doesn't do that much business so I kind of let it go, maybe I will try again with it later, its still up if youd like to try it.
Theres also clips4sale.com which is huge and does very very well with that model but it primarily offers fetish oriented content, but whatever your thing, its represented there thats for sure.
As for stolen content how do you blame the customer when for example he downloads Jules jordan Videos for free off of a Brazzers owned website? Jules turns his head the other way when Brazzers does it because he distributes Brazzers.
Porners have operated this way for as long as I have been in the biz, they place no real value on the content, you get it out there as fast and as cheap as possible and you produce as much as possible. Three months later it has no value and nobody much cared about spending money to protect it.
Hopefully this at least clears up some of the muddy water.
Is all this going to change...yes it is, streaming is going to become the preferred delivery method and it will be encrypted making it much harder to rip. Additionally your username and IP address will be encoded into every frame of the stream, so if you do rip it and post it to a tube site or a free site, it can be traced directly back to you and potentially your credit card will be hit for damages.

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Jamie Gardner
Member

demicomix.com Carnal Comics - True Stories of Adult Film Stars
105 Posts
6/04

Posted - Feb 3 2010 : 1:39PM

Many people focus on Brazzers but there are pay video on demand sites that are putting scenes on illegal tube sites. I noticed that
eskimotube has many scenes sponsored by xmovie. When I went to
look at this xmovie site, I discovered this is the same site as videobox.
Among the companies that have had over 10 minutes of a scene put on eskimotube by videobox are Combat Zone, DVSX, Elegant Angel Productions, Lethal Hardcore, Mayhem, Metro, Notorious, Platinum X Pictures, Private, Red Light District, Sin City, Smash Pictures, etc.. Some of the scenes are over 29 minutes. There are scenes from other companies in which the scenes are below 10 minutes each.
When companies give videobox the right to put movies on their
pay site, does this also allow videobox the right to put scenes of
theirs on free tube sites? Do companies have any say so on how long
the free scenes can be? I looked at Videobox's list of porn companies and there over a hundred of them. Some well known companies that are not on videobox include Digital Playground, Jules Jordan Video, Wicked Pictures and Xplay. These companies are exceptions to the huge list of companies that are doing business with Videobox.
http://www.myspace.com/jamieralphgardner
http://www.demidemonessmovie.com
http://www.demicomix.com/Carnal01.htm http://groups.yahoo.com/group/carnalcomics

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duefuss
Member

Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious - Brendan Gill
723 Posts
4/09

Posted - Feb 3 2010 : 1:49PM

Thank you, Mr. South for as understandable and complete a discussion of your business as I've ever had the pleasure to read.
Edited by - duefuss on 2/3/2010 1:50:58 PM

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posthum
Member

349 Posts
12/09

Posted - Feb 3 2010 : 2:25PM

Not to mention both the porn site and the biller can make an extra buck by selling the data

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posthum
Member

349 Posts
12/09

Posted - Feb 3 2010 : 2:30PM

It's not like I'm pissed at any site, there's just a missed business opportunity for both the sites and me.
The age thing I don't think is much of an argument, any kid can 'borrow' their dad's CC if they're willing to catch hell as soon as the balance gets sent to him.

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MikeSouth
Deactivated User

511 Posts
11/02

Posted - Feb 3 2010 : 4:17PM

duefuss yer welcome man it actually benefits every legit site owner when the consumer is educated, so I dont mind at all, matter of fact Im happy to try to help...nothing would please me more than to see all the scumbags out of biz, of course it wont happen but.
As to the guy saying I can make money selling your name and address and all that, actually you are wrong, I dont even have access to any of that info I get a confirmation email with a transaction ID your name login and password, thats it.
As for the billing company selling that info...I suppose they could but they swear they dont, paypal on the other hand DOES, as does your bank, the card issuing bank and pretty much everyone else.
Matter of fact I know less about my customers than they know about me...way less

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Prophit
Member

378 Posts
1/07

Posted - Feb 3 2010 : 4:30PM

Maybe it was not a success because you have to register before being able to view what's even available?
Whenever I come across a site that asks for my personal details before even letting me see any content the first thing I do is go away.

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Len801
Deactivated User

754 Posts
9/07

Posted - Feb 3 2010 : 4:46PM

I think that's the main problem for many many porn sites. They won't show you anything at all (their "preview" sections are a joke) until you join and pay.

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MikeSouth
Deactivated User

511 Posts
11/02

Posted - Feb 3 2010 : 4:49PM

Hey you are missing the obvious...you do have to register because there is hardcore content on there and legally I have to at least make a small effort to keep kids out.
You can register with any info you like and it will work but when you choose to purchase the info has to be correct or the transaction will fail.
As for that particular site I dont have any choice the information and the flow is built into the shopping cart software (X-Cart) but nothing is validated until you place an order.

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Prophit
Member

378 Posts
1/07

Posted - Feb 3 2010 : 5:13PM

That's true of course but at least they let you see SOMETHING. On Mike South's site I see practically nothing.

Only people who are already familiar with his work are gonna register at that site. Companies shouldn't underestimate how tired people are of having to register at so many sites in their lives. I certainly am, so I'm only gonna do it when I know for sure it's worth it.
Also I usually only subscribe to paysites that grant you a look at their member's area before joining or at least provide enough samples.

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Len801
Deactivated User

754 Posts
9/07

Posted - Feb 3 2010 : 5:20PM

That is a VERY difficult question, and everyone would have a different answer.
There is the question of what the product costs, whether I can commit my hard-earned money to it, whether I find the price fair, if and where it is easily available (shipping costs have to be considered, package may be examined by customs if ordering from another country, and of course relevant duty fees may be involved).
Then there are problems with privacy concerns (what if you are living with parents/girlfriend/wife and family who does not much appreciate you going out buying porn from a sex shop or ordering from a on-line distributor). How do you hide the porn, and the porn billings charged to a credit card when you are living with someone? Would you want your mother/girlfriend/wife/young son/daughter finding the package in the mail box?
Let us say for sake of argument, that you subscribe to a number of satellite channels that program TV shows, movies, etc. Let us say you pay $4 to watch the last STAR TREK movie, but you record it and burn it on a DVD. The same movie is available for sale (new/used) at a number of stores in your area (and distributors on line, etc). Is what you have done an act of theft? Have you stolen what does not belong to you? Have you deprived Paramount of money? Let us consider a similar situation where I go to the local video store and rent the same STAR TREK movie for $4 and make a copy for myself (not for resale to anyone else, nor to post it on line for others to download). Have I stolen money/actual physical product from the video store or deprived Paramount of money?
What if my friend comes over to my house and brings 3 other buddies with him and his STAR TREK DVD, and we watch it all together over a beer, have we all committed a criminal act? Does that mean 4 people have watched a movie technically free? Is that "fair use"? If I go to the local library and pick up a copy of a DVD and bring it home and watch it several times, is the movie distributor out of pocket, and have I committed a crime (I have watched something free)?
Now look at the way internet providers sell their service. What is the first thing you read in their advertisements (high speed, up-loading and downloading, right?). What do you think most young people will be doing with their PC's? Sending photos of their dog Rex to grandma? What services and files are all the Rapidshare, Netload, Hotfile, etc providing? Again, baby pictures/home videos to their relatives, right?

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Clam Digger
Deactivated User

Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good.
2268 Posts
1/05

Posted - Feb 3 2010 : 5:37PM

The porn industry is full of crap.
It is very well known in industry circles that Brazzer's owns most of the tube sites, and that Jules Jordan, for one is in bed with them. And, guess what, nobody is doing anything about it.
I also think it silly that this forun frown on "tube sites", when posters that openly work for Brazzers post here with impunity.

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MikeSouth
Deactivated User

511 Posts
11/02

Posted - Feb 3 2010 : 6:26PM

So you think it would be better with only soft content as a preview and no registration...I could do that...when I redo it I will remember that

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Tobias
Deactivated User

475 Posts
1/09

Posted - Feb 3 2010 : 6:30PM

In layman terms, can you please explain what exactly this means? Why would Brazzers and Jules Jordan give away free content on tube sites? Sorry, but a lot of us don't know these answer to this question.

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Clam Digger
Deactivated User

Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good.
2268 Posts
1/05

Posted - Feb 3 2010 : 6:53PM

Well you might check Mikesouth.com and look for a series of posts made around Jan. 20. I was kind of surprised he didn't mention it in his last post here.

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Tobias
Deactivated User

475 Posts
1/09

Posted - Feb 3 2010 : 7:19PM

I read the post but still don't understand what exactly you want done. From what I understand, tube sites are operated as "teasers" to get folks to buy or rent. Like YouTube, some copyrighted material gets uploaded without the copyright holder's permission. But, it's not the tube site's responsibility to enforce copyrights nor are they responsible for every bit of content that is uploaded. Like YouTube, they can warn their users, but beyond that, what can be done?

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MikeSouth
Deactivated User

511 Posts
11/02

Posted - Feb 3 2010 : 7:23PM

Bottom line is this is how it works with tube sites
they claim that users submit content which gives them safe harbor under the DMCA rules, what this means is if i find my content on a tube site I have to send the site owner a DMCA notice and at that point he has I think 48 hrs to remove the content, which they do....but within another 48 hrs another "user" posts t back and the cycle starts all over again.
Now ...Brazzers owns the worlds largest tube sites, they use them to generate traffic to Brazzers owned sites by using sponsor links and the like on the tube sites, you dont ever see Brazzers owned content on Brazzers tube sites...funny how that works. You do see Jules Content all over them, interestingly enough. You also find pretty much everyone else in porn there too...I recently watched Jules new releases appear there on the same day they were released to video stores, ditto Digital Playground, Wicked, Private and others and it isnt just teasers, its full scenes and often full movies.
But they get a pass from Jules because he distributes Brazzers DVDs
In a nutshell thats how it works, and thats how a tubesite makes money, because it drives traffic, when you combine that traffic with the scams that a lot of these guys are famous for like I mentioned before a single signup can easily be worth over 100 bucks, so its lucrative, very lucrative.

Edited by - MikeSouth on 2/3/2010 7:25:00 PM

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Aplus
Senior Member

1431 Posts
5/05

Posted - Feb 3 2010 : 8:00PM

Yeah, but isn't controlling and getting paid for your own content, whether directly or indirectly, ultimately the idea...well at least one of the ideas. Isn't something better than nothing? Not defending, just asking Mike.

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Clam Digger
Deactivated User

Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good.
2268 Posts
1/05

Posted - Feb 3 2010 : 8:07PM

^While everybody else gets screwed?
Besides that, we hear nothing but how the porn business sucks and how much revenue is being lost to "the tube" sites from various individuals who past here and are in the business, but they don't work together to stop it.
Meanwhile on this forum you can be cast out into outer darkness if you mention "tube sites" or, God forbid, link to them because you wish to identify a scene or a performer in order to make a purchase.
I say fuck'em all.
Edited by - Clam Digger on 2/3/2010 8:15:16 PM

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ChodeMasterJ
Perpetual Marxist

5405 Posts
4/03

Posted - Feb 4 2010 : 2:05AM

Hmmm...if that's the case, why didn't I have to provide ANY info for the 2 i bought around Xmas time?

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ninja1
Senior Member

2939 Posts
1/08

Posted - Feb 4 2010 : 2:25AM

I dunno. Did you actually use them to buy stuff? All the ones I have researched will let you purchase them (You give money to the cashier, cashier gives you the card), but you still have to perform further registration (i.e. real name and real address and maybe SSN) before the card can be activated for use. You do the "further registration" via mail or by internet or something, not at the point of purchase. At least I think that is how it works. It's been a while since I was investigating it. What cards did you purchase and from where? Do they work with online porn purchases?
Edited by - ninja1 on 2/4/2010 2:28:01 AM

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duefuss
Member

Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious - Brendan Gill
723 Posts
4/09

Posted - Feb 4 2010 : 10:50AM

Mr. South, in another thread I rather windily stated my view that the porn industry would benefit from organizing to promote itself. I said producers should come together to oppose porn prosecution, prosecute piracy, and exert political influence for their common benefit. I think that they should start by publishing accurate data about the general size of the industry: gross sales, employment, etc. that would indicate to Washington the REAL financial benefit and popularity of porn and political clout of porn watchers.
I would very much like to hear tyour opinion, as an experienced major producer, of the feasability and wisdom of my view.
edited for the usual shitty typing.
Edited by - duefuss on 2/4/2010 10:52:39 AM

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julesjordanvideo
JulesJordan.com

Professional Perverts
1003 Posts
9/01

Posted - Feb 4 2010 : 11:21AM

Let me correct Mike, no tube sites get a "pass" from me. I send out letters everyday to all tube sites and people who have my content on their sites....I have never seen one of our new releases in its entirety on a tube site, the day of its release.....torrent? yes...tube no.
Mike can bash Brazzers all he wants but he has tons of links on his site directly to Brazzers and guess what? he makes money off of these links.....they pay his rent!....I even informed mike of a link on his site, and its still up...so...I guess they get a "pass" when it comes to Mike making money off of them...
just to correct you duefuss, Mike has never been a "major producer" of anything, except bs!
I'll say it again, if you have great content tubes are not gonna kill you, my content is the most abused on all the tubes, but I can identify it and get it down...and its certainly not killing my company.
its funny the angriest people in these threads are people that have 0 content being put on any of these sites (except for Brandon I suppose).

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duefuss
Member

Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious - Brendan Gill
723 Posts
4/09

Posted - Feb 4 2010 : 11:36AM

Regardless, Mr. Jordan, of your opinion of any of your fellow producers, would it not be beneficial to both you and they to join forces in combating your common difficulties as an industry?

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