piracy is theft and violence for profit, which does not apply to filesharing. thus i think we need a new term. all i can think of now is porn slutting, since sluts don't get paid.
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Mojo Deactivated User
1223 Posts 9/03
Posted - Feb 19 2010 : 6:57PM
If I remember right BOB used to rip off DVDs as well when they first started out. Now, ironically, they seem to be very protective of the scenes they now make themselves.
Every time I read a thread about piracy on this forum, I end up wondering the same thing. Do the people that are vehemently opposed to pirating porn and condemn those that do. Do they feel and practice the same thing with other mediums. Did they buy every movie, ebook, music file or computer program on their computer. Just something I've always been curious about. Personally, I don't think anyone is completely innocent when comes to copyrighted material on their computer. I'm not saying it isn't stealing or anything like that. It is what is. But Man, people sure do get a pedestal when they talk about file sharing on this site. And not just industry people. I'm a both kind of person. I'm not trying to disrespect anyone on the forum, just being honest. I'm mostly in line w/ what Jules Jordan said. If you most the best possible product you can, You're fans will support you. Hopefuly. As far as DVDs go. I think another problem is the "stigma" that comes with buying pornography. I own around 100 smut DVDs and about 80-90 mainstream movies/TV shows. Now, A lot of people have collection my size when it comes to mainstream DVDs. No one would even bat an eye at it. But if people found out that I own 100 pornos, well the judgments come down real quick. "Why would you waste your money on that", "Why buy porn, Who watch a scene/movie more than once", "Why buy it when you can just download it", "What's wrong with the free stuff", "Only a pervert would have that much smut" and "I think you have a porn/sex addiction". I think that same stigma has help pushed the "free porn" mindset even further along. Hiding files on a computer is easy. It much harder to his DVD. As I typed this I realized I don't really have a point,lol. So I'm just going to end this with a........ I suck at drunk typing.
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Zaer Deactivated User
249 Posts 10/07
Posted - Feb 20 2010 : 12:32PM
The big companies will be fine, they're not going anywhere and they know it. They're only complaining because they can't bear the thought of losing a penny of potential or actual profit.
I generally prefer movies on my harddrive, no matter if porn or mainstream. All those DVD boxes use up space. An external harddrive takes the space of two DVD boxes and stores hundreds of movies or porn shoots. Now if there was more downloadable porn without DRM I'd be a very happy person.
Hi,Let´s just hope you got more than just one "happy" drive :) otherwise you may get very unhappy when the time comes and your harddrive showes you the finger :) Cube
Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious - Brendan Gill 723 Posts 4/09
Posted - Feb 22 2010 : 9:15AM
I never understood that particular story in the New Testament. The world is full and always has been, I would think, of santimonious concieted self deluded frauds who think they are right about everything and NEVER make mistakes. If that episode ever really happened, that adulteress would have been pummeled to death in no time flat. If people like the late unlamented Fallwell or his ilk had been there, they'd have stoned the poor woman with self righteous glee.
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Len801 Deactivated User
754 Posts 9/07
Posted - Feb 22 2010 : 1:31PM
I am sure had someone tried to throw a stone, there would be a stinging follow-up statement from the One who made that statement. Besides these were small villages and everybody knew each other as well as their personal indiscretions. It would have been very difficult/impossible for anyone to have said: "gee I always obey the 10 commandments and I am pure of heart, and I am going to proceed and stone that woman". The crowd was basically caught with their pants down, and was unmasked and undone by its obvious hypocrisy. But I have to agree with Royal Tee's comments above, that we all get very snctimonious wehen it comes down to discussion of "piracy" (plunder for proft) and copyright infringement. Not everything in one's computer, cell phone and what have you was bought and paid for. You have freeware and shareware software, which yours for the grabbing, and yet how many people actually send the developpers of the applications any money for their efforts? What do I do with the software I bought a couple of years back that no longer work or work badly with Windows 7? Who allowed in this day and age copyright for intellectual property to run forever? What is the justification for this? 13 or even 27 years is NOT enough for them to make their money back on a movie? Why is the price of a DVD involving a movie produced 50-60 years ago just about the same for a movie just coming out and which cost $150 million to produce? Who said that a certain actor deserves $20-25 million for one movie (even when he keeps making duds)? What do you do when you bought a DVD and a few weeks or months later the same studio puts out an "extended" or "director's cut" with just 3 minutes more? When they reissue it on blu-ray, do you run out and keep rebuilding your movie library? The music industry was selling 1 good song and 11 other clunkers on a pierce of disc which cost next to nothing to put together. But they were asking $26 for it. Then they weep about "piracy", and claim they are not making money. Is it really necessary to put out a 2-disc adult movie that lasts 3-4 hours? Do I really need to see a sex scene than runs over 45 minutes? Do I really need to see backstage material (basically actresses posing for pictures and yakking about nothing in particular) that goes on for an hour and a half? Keep the material interesting and at a fair price and people will buy into it.
Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07
Posted - Feb 22 2010 : 2:27PM
I would like to go on record as one of the people that oppose the theft on copyrighted material, and maybe I am one of few, but to this day I have never, ever downloaded, bought illegal copies of, or stole any material, be it cds, dvds, or anything. To me it is flat out stealing. As for other people judging me as to what I own in my personal library, I really don't care what they think. To say there is a stigma attached to owning porn, so that is why I steal it, is just a cop out. You take it because you can justify it and it's free. You never get something for nothing, you usually get nothing for something. There is a cost, somewhere along the line.
Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07
Posted - Feb 22 2010 : 2:30PM
They're only complaining because they can't bear the thought of losing a penny of potential or actual profit. [/quote] No, they are complaining because people are stealing their property. To say McDonalds makes enough money already, so it is ok for me to go in and order food and run out and not pay for it, is just a poor excuse for stealing.
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Zaer Deactivated User
249 Posts 10/07
Posted - Feb 22 2010 : 10:19PM
In the McDonalds example the company is deprived of an actual physical product. With digital copyright infringement, digital content is infinitely copyable ergo there isn't a loss of a physical product. And the profit loss is potential not actual as it is difficult to ascertain whether someone was going to purchase the content if it hadn't been freely available or if they downloaded the content just because it was free. And these companies are complaining because they don't want to have to deal with lower profit margins, which is a product of avarice, because many of these companies, despite so called copyright infringement, are nonetheless still making millions, so they're not substantially affected by it and they're not going to go out of business, and they know it. But the reality is lower profit margins are what they've had to get accustomed to over the past few years and that's what they're going to have to deal with more of in the future. Edited by - Zaer on 2/22/2010 10:20:21 PM
You have no clue what you are talking about. Take a look at Private Media Group, as they are I believe the only publicly traded porn company other than Playboy. Check out their financial statements up on the internet. Not good. It's amazing they are even still in business Edited by - just_me on 2/23/2010 1:00:19 AM
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Feb 23 2010 : 3:11AM
Porn companies are and will be going out of business. The profits claimed for the industry have always been exaggerated, only a few were ever 'making millions' and these days they are making much less. Due to oversaturation the porn market was already running on shoestring profit margins, the internet has cut out the bottom of the barrel. . Not saying that the majors and porn producers aren't greedy, they are, but that doesn't mean that their decline doesn't effect other people besides the 'fat cats' at the top. I know a lot of people who worked for music labels and distributors, both major and independent, who have also lost their jobs over the past few years due to the plummeting profits of these companies
Hi, Even though i think a lot of stuff being said is true i believe the cost of a product nowadyas is more of a mixed calculation than the actual price for it. Why is a movie filmed 50+ years ago as expensive as a new one ... maybe because you would have to charge even more for the new one. I don´t know how much it costs to (physically) produce a dvd or BD. The market always seems to need new stuff ... i don´t. I don´t need BD therefore i ain´t gonna buy it .. and yes i know how good it looks. And i would most defenitely not rebuild my entire dvd collection with BD if i were to buy BD equipment and if every title would be avail on BD (which isn´t gonna happen). Cube
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Len801 Deactivated User
754 Posts 9/07
Posted - Feb 23 2010 : 12:18PM
A few clarifications may be in order (if you can respond): =What does your porn collection consist of? =Is it mostly Vivid Video (% wise)? =Did you ever buy the same movie on VHS and then again on DVD when it was released on DVD? =Do you get a discount when you buy Vivid movies in house? (in this case you would be getting a product for a lower amount than other consumers would be able to). =Do you get to view a lot of the Vivid product free (you work for the firm, and you do not need to really purchase it) This may make us understand your statements better (I have never, ever downloaded, bought illegal copies of, or stole any material, be it cds, dvds, or anything)
Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07
Posted - Feb 23 2010 : 12:24PM
That is a lot of blah blah blah, to justify stealing period. How do you think we are able to make these movies? People buy them. When people stop buying them, and no money comes in from their production, we stop making them, we stop hiring new talent, you start getting the same old crap that has been out for years. You are wrong about the companies making millions off dvds. If they were making so much money, why are they going under? Why aren't you stealing music content? Why aren't you stealing mainstream movie content? Because it is not ok, and if you are, sorry to be so harsh, but you are a thief. I'm sorry but I listen to all these goofy reasons for taking something that is just simply put, not yours, and I can't get beyond the fact that people just can come up with so many reasons to do the wrong thing. Is stealing property right because it is easy to do? No it is not. Is stealing property right because the person that owns it is already making money off it? No it is not. In the future what you will see is fighting fire with fire. The only way to combat free is with free. The studios will put up their own sites, sell advertising and put up old content for free.
Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07
Posted - Feb 23 2010 : 12:28PM
The music business is a great example of what outright stealing of a product can do. I also have had many friends who are out of a job, not to mention the artists who are just fucked from the top to the bottom. Anyone who thinks that this free for all will not kill this industry is sadly mistaken.
Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07
Posted - Feb 23 2010 : 12:44PM
My porn collection consists of 1 copy of Night Trips, 1 copy of One Night in Paris, and i think I may have a copy of FTW, which i bought. I see this stuff all day long, so I don't really take it home and watch it at night. I have bought every movie i really like on both formats, Pulp Fiction, Reseviour Dogs, all the Disney stuff when my kids were growing up on VHS and then on DVD, Fast Times at Ridgemont High, yes I did re buy on DVD. I can watch Vivid all day long here, so again I really don't have a big porn library at home. I never did. If there is music I like I either buy the cd or itunes. I rent a lot of movies from Blockbuster and if there is something I will watch over, like No Country for Old Men, Inglorious Basterds, There will be Blood, I buy it. I am not saying i am better than anyone else, but I was taught stealing is wrong. So aside form the time when I was 10 years old, and took some stuff form Woolworths, which when i got home my mother said where did you get that? She knew i had no money, drove me back to Woolworths, got the manager and made me return it, then beat the shit out of me, my life of crime has been very limited. I know this might surprise some of you, but when given the incorrect change at a store, I don't take it, I give it back to the poor smuck who gave me an extra $10, because at the end of the day, it won't put me over the top, and that person is going to be responsible for it. I believe in Karma. If I take that $10, I am going to lose $20 somewhere along the line. What ever happened to people just doing the right thing? Edited by - hollywood woody on 2/23/2010 12:50:35 PM
Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious - Brendan Gill 723 Posts 4/09
Posted - Feb 23 2010 : 12:55PM
Any media capable of being digitalized, which is to say all media, is going to be copied, sold, or given away, and probably on the 'net. Any disagreement? You can make any law against it you want, threaten any punishment, shame the copyists and downloaders as much as you can, and it won't do anything to even slow the piracy down. Until you start prosecuting people for stealing porn, they're going to keep stealing it. Even when you do prosecute them, the piracy will continue. But loudly and publicly prosecute one pirate, one illegal downloader -- and the more MINOR the infraction you prosecute him for the better, and it will stop a HUGE amount of the piracy by imposing real risk on the practice in the minds of anyone who contemplates stealing porn. Every experience of law enforcement and every experience of behavior modification says that this is the only thing that is going to work, until such time as technology can make copyrighted material download proof. New York City's crime rate only went significantly down when law enforcement adopted a policy of prosecuting the most minor offenses vigorously. In behavior modification, the more immediate and certain and severe the consequence for unwanted behavior is, the more quickly the behavior ends. If the industry cannot or will not do this for any reason, then piracy will not diminish.
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Len801 Deactivated User
754 Posts 9/07
Posted - Feb 23 2010 : 2:09PM
If I summarize this correctly, you really have no porn collection to speak of. You have your "fill" from seeing sufficient porn all day due to the work you do. It is the same thing as being a video store clerk, if your boss lets you take home a movie or two after your shift is done as an added "bonus". That person would be basically making the same declarations that he does not have to steal or illegally download porn. I don't believe those people that illegally download music/movies over the web are essentially thieves in the traditional sense,and they would not walk down a street and mug an old lady for the few buck she has in her purse, walk in store and steal merchandise or are pickpockets or house thieves. The material is there, and digital files are not physical things that someone is being physically deprived of. Would that same person who has illegally downloaded a movie would have actually gone out and buy the product? I really doubt it... and the mainstream and porn companies often put out a dollar figure on "illegal" downloads that have no realistic sense. Why is it that a movie download over the net costs about the same amount of buying a physical DVD with box cover? And what justification is there for placing DRM on dowloads and allowing you to only watch the movie on that camputer, but can't burn it? Why is it that if I am recording a movie/program over the TV waves, for my personal use is NOT considered illegal or piracy, but if I download/record the same material over the web illegal?
Because the television station that you record the program from has paid for the rights to air it, based on the negotiation that the studio and broadcast network came to. If you just go download something someone has uploaded, you are downloading something that was uploaded by some person, who hasn't paid broadcast rights.
woody: you may be weakening your arguments against stealing when you keep offering to send people free dvds. people may then think it's fine to watch other forms of free vivid.
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Len801 Deactivated User
754 Posts 9/07
Posted - Feb 23 2010 : 4:18PM
I lost you here Woody. If I legally subscribe to HBO/Starz service, and I record the "Spartacus" series for my personal use, it is legal. The networkds are NOT allowing me to do anything. They are sending/broadcasting (over cable/satellite) me the program without DRM or any other encryption method. A supreme court decision of over 20 years ago deemed that recording to be "fair use" and NOT illegal and not copyright infringement. So thenetworks are just complying with the legal precedent established. If I go on the web and download the very same episode of "Spartacus" it is illegal ONLY if I am making money out it (selling it for profit to other people)? Is this your personal/professional definition of "piracy" or "illegal download". Let us go back to 30 years ago, when the video revolution was not really underway yet. How many porn movies were being produced at that time in a given year? How many adult movie distributors were there? How many movie theaters were exhibiting in the USA adult movies? What was the average budget of a porn movie?? Let's move forward to 2009-2010: How many porn companies are out there in the USA making porn content (let us even exclude strictly those for web content): 300-400-500? How many adult titles (DVD's) are being produced/distributed in the US in a given years: 10,000, 15,000? How many male/female performers are active shooting porn in a given month? What money do they make for a 2-3 hour scene versus what a golden age performer was making? If digital did not exist and the web did not exhist, would Vivid Video be making the (same) kind of money in 2009 as they were making in 1986, 1987, 1998, 1989, 1990, 1991, etc (excluding inflation, etc)? Would a Jenna Jameson be making the same kind of money if she was active in 1980? Do you think Diney, Universal, 20th Fox be making the same kinds of movies in 2009-2010 that they were making in 1980? Go check and see how much money the majors are making from DVD sales/satellite broadcasts (pay-per-view, pay, etc) than strictly theatrical release. Go ask them if they would go back to the same type of earnings and exhibition of movies, limited after life of their library, limited and shorter life of copyright as existed in 1980. Foreign audience are now seeing the same US movies practically at the same time as they are released on US soil. Before 1980 it took months, years, and often never (especially if it was an average movie or a dud). The majors and porn companies always see the evil of certain technology but they refrain from mentioning the huge sums they are reaping from that technology, which they embrace and resist at the same time to suit their particular "needs".
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Mojo Deactivated User
1223 Posts 9/03
Posted - Feb 23 2010 : 6:38PM
Sorry, but that argument doesn’t stand up, because the person who uploaded the scene onto the Net paid for it just like a TV station paid to broadcast a show. Someone has to pay, in downloadable porn's case it was the person who originally posted it.
Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious - Brendan Gill 723 Posts 4/09
Posted - Feb 24 2010 : 8:13AM
We can make what excuses for it we like, and call it anything else we like, but the fact is that downloading commercial media of any kind without paying for it is theft: receiving stolen goods. Legally and ethically, media on the 'net or anywhere else is a product for which its maker is entitled to be paid. The fact that you can't pick it up in your hand, that it is a binary code that induces light waves to arrrange specifically on a monitor screen and so forth doesn't make it any different from a frying pan or a Mercedes Benz. Taking it is stealing, and because someone else stole it before we did changes that not at all. I suspect the ADTers who haven't downloaded pirated stuff would be a very short list. I know my name wouldn't be on it. I tell myself that I mitigate my own crimes by joining websites and paying for clips, but the guy whose porn I steal off the 'net still gets nothing from the guy I pay for porn. Discussions like this one on ADT have curtailed my own thefts greatly, but I'm no saint, and asking me to be one is not entirely fair. Sex is the second greatest urge, behind only the urge to survive. Literally, we would rather cum than eat, and I don't know that anyone, with God's plenty of porn a mouseclick away, can be asked to refrain completely from helping himself occasionally. I know I'm not that strong. Just as men cannot live without law, without standards of conduct which have known and certain consequences for violating, we cannot be expected not to take what can be taken without consequence. We should be better. Sometimes we are, and maybe in some Utopian future we will be, but at present there must be at least some demonstrable risk in stealing porn before it will ever lessen.
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Mojo Deactivated User
1223 Posts 9/03
Posted - Feb 24 2010 : 8:51AM
Ah, but downloading porn that someone paid for isn't receiving stollen goods. It's like if someone buys a car then decides to give it as a present. That person isn't receiving stollen goods because the person who's giving it bought it fair and square. Now, if the car or porn DVD was stollen and is passed on then that would be receiving stollen goods.
Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious - Brendan Gill 723 Posts 4/09
Posted - Feb 24 2010 : 9:12AM
More rationalization. If somebody bought it and puts it on the 'net for others who download it, each dowload is money the producer should make but doesn't. A counterfeiter has yet to be acquitted on the grounds that he copied and distributed real bills that he had legitimately earned.
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Mojo Deactivated User
1223 Posts 9/03
Posted - Feb 24 2010 : 9:55AM
Your case would be good if that person who's posting the scenes was making a profit out of it, then it would be them who'd be ripping off the porn companies, not the punter. But as of yet I've yet to see anyone on filesharing sites make a red cent out of it, quite the opposite to BOB's old business practices. Edited by - Mojo on 2/24/2010 9:59:11 AM
Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious - Brendan Gill 723 Posts 4/09
Posted - Feb 24 2010 : 10:07AM
You're still rationalizing. If I give you a stolen car, I'm making no money, but I still stole it and you are receiving stolen goods. Both are crimes, and both, by any accepted ethical code, are unethical. Saying the truth isn't the truth doesn't make it false. Stealing is not less of a theft if everybody steals or if others steal more than you do.
Yep. Things have changed. You are able to distribute any type of media with practically no cost. Even with all the DRM in the world, you could still put your hd camera and film the tv screen and spread the content. And people would download that if that was the only way. Porn producers will have to find other ways to make money (or accept that a large percentage will pirate their content). If they can't make money, they will go away. That is in no way meant to critisize producers, or demean their product or their abilities or anything. It is just how things have become. You can't charge people for picking flowers or drinking water from a stream when they're out hiking. The luddites could protest all they wanted but nothing would have saved their jobs. The realities of the market place (indeed the world we live in) have changed and everyone will have to adjust regardless of arguments regarding "morals" which are specific to this transition period and will be forgotten when the inevitable transition has occured.
Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07
Posted - Feb 24 2010 : 12:43PM
I not even sure if i should reply to this. Are you kidding? I send out screeners for people to review on this site. You are kidding, right?
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Mojo Deactivated User
1223 Posts 9/03
Posted - Feb 24 2010 : 12:54PM
I think you're misunderstanding my meaning. I'm talking about context. To buy something, then make copies of it in order to give away free of charge is not stealing. It's morally ambiguous undermining of the industry maybe, but it's not stealing. Now to buy something, make copies and then sell them on for a fee is breaking the law, but again it's not "stealing" in a literal context. Maybe this thread should be renamed something like: "I don't want to undermine the porn industry by downloading free vids"? That would be more like it. Edited by - Mojo on 2/24/2010 12:56:39 PM
Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07
Posted - Feb 24 2010 : 1:10PM
If you download it from a site that has no rights to put it up, it is illegal. period. The networks have the right to broadcast it, you have the right to record it, you do not have the right to sell it. If you download it from let's say the people who own it, there is no problem, as long as you do not replicate it and sell it. I don't know what is so hard to understand about that. The definition of an illegal download is something you downloaded from someone who doesn't own it. Simple.
Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07
Posted - Feb 24 2010 : 1:18PM
The person who bought it, a hard copy of a dvd, bought it for his personal use. Check out the FBI warning at the beginning of every movie you buy. You do not own the rights to the movie because you bought a legitimate copy of that movie. What you are saying is that because i walked into Best Buy and bought a copy of Pulp Fiction, I now own the rights to Pulp Fiction and i can do with it as I please. If I want to replicate it and sell it on the street, no problem, If I want to put it up on the web for free, it is ok. Please tell me you don't really believe that.
Introducing Dallas Rea
Posted - Feb 17 2010 : 10:25PM
Yup, got two external HDs.
It WOULD get used a lot, wouldn't it?