For old DOS based computer games there are so called abandonware sites that offer them for download. It's basically software which's developer doesn't exist anymore and which's copyright has expired (as far as I understand this). I don't see anything morally wrong with that, so why would it be wrong to grab an old piece of porn when the people behind it aren't making money of it anymore? It's not like you're hurting someone's financial interests. Edited by - posthum on 2/9/2010 2:34:07 PM
Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07
Posted - Feb 9 2010 : 5:07PM
I don't think there is a large objection to finding discontinued movies, it is new stuff and stuff that is for sale. There is always a grey area.I don't lose money on someone downloading a copy of something I don't sell any longer. People know when they are doing the wrong thing. To say well they already made their money or who am I hurting or my friend does it, is just justifications for stealing. The tube site know when people are putting up copyrighted material, they should simply not allow it by policing it daily. To say the adult studios don't know how to stop it is erroneous, they know how to stop it, it just costs money, more money, to do that. Then they must raise their prices to cover the costs. It is not a cheap proposition to stop the piracy.
Ok, I understand what you're saying. Just curious if you think the directors, who directed such films, feel the same way? And do copywrites to adult films ever expire?
"Abandonware" is in almost all cases just an excuse. Although this software is "old" by current tech standards, the copyright extends way into the future. It is just something they tell themselves and others to not get questioned about it, while it in fact is a lie. However, if the stuff is completely unavailable, I don't have any moral qualms about acquiring it in whatever way I can. Just don't fool yourself into thinking that the copyright has expired, because it has not. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AbandonwareEdited by - JohnW on 2/9/2010 5:30:03 PM
Thanks for the feedback folks - I guess that means I can push ahead relatively guilt-free with movies I simply cannot find anywhere else (god, I wish there really was a guy in Kentucky who had Ultimate Reality...)I often wonder about this. I guess because I'm writing and publishing about these films, I always hope that I would be happy if I were the director that someone was digging up long OOP films and writing about them. Maybe that's arrogant. In general, though, I think if I were an artist and someone had dug up some old, forgotten film and watched it (and appreciated it) it might make me happy. Can't speak for all filmmakers though.
The purists will say: You're just rationalizing. Theft is theft. Law has nothing to do with morality. Your duty is to obey the law and not question the law. It's not up to you to decide about financial interests, and you wouldn't understand it anyway; it's complicated. The copyright is good until 2050 (until 2045 arrives, at which time the copyright will be extended until 3000). You must respect the rights of the great-great-great-grandniece of the original owner, who is strategically planning a major re-release on the 200th anniversary of the initial release, just like Disney orchestrates their releases. If the copyright holder wasn't guaranteed perpetual protection from thieves, nobody would bother to make porn, and you wouldn't like that very much, would you? I say: There's nothing wrong with getting it however you can, after making an honest effort to find a legitimate copy of it.
Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07
Posted - Feb 9 2010 : 7:56PM
They already got paid, they don't get royalties. They never got any in the first place. The company owns the film lock, stock and barrel. They own all the images from photo shoots. Companies go out of business, and if it is not a big title, they usually don't sell the masters. Copyrights last for 75 years, adult or mainstream.
Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07
Posted - Feb 9 2010 : 8:09PM
If it is in print, you can obtain a copy. A lot of times if it out of print, you can buy a copy. What is an honest attempt? I looked in a video store, it's not there so I can down load it from the internet. I think if you go on ebay, you can get just about anything. I tool leather, a lot of tools are just not made any longer, I found tools from 1860s on ebay. I look for out of print vinyl albums, they are there. Again it is the new releases and catalog titles that we still sell that are the problem. I don't care if someone downloads some 1980 title that is no longer in production. I would care if someone took one of our titles from 1980 and started burning copies and selling them. But for your personal use, who cares? Just a word about Disney, they will spend any amount to enforce their copyrights on everything they own. We don't have those resources. People are pretty cautious when ripping Disney off, you know that warning about 5 years in jail, and a $250,000 fine, they will make sure it sticks if they find someone doing it. Maybe we should release everything under the Disney banner.
[Link]
TeganLovesSara Deactivated User
Are you smoking yet? 252 Posts 12/09
Posted - Feb 9 2010 : 8:21PM
No Woody you should spend what Disney spends. for every $3 you make, you should invest $2 into making sure people don't steal from you. It's what every business does.
Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07
Posted - Feb 9 2010 : 11:44PM
We can't spend what Disney spends, see we are missing some key elements that Disney has and we don't. 1. Theatrical release, now this is a big one here, could account for up to $65 mil in first week of release. 2. Anyone under 18. Also very large demographics when considering DVD sales. If we spent $2 out of every $3 we made to prevent theft, we would be out of business. The margin is not that big. Let's say a company puts out a movie and spends $15,000 to $20,000 on it. Then add in replication, printing, advertising, and packaging. Out the door most companies are selling , let's say, being generous, 1500 copies at $12, I am being generous, like very generous, that is $18,000. They made zero dollars. The only way a guy is going to make money on that title is if it has legs, sells it on VOD, international, and broadcast. Those are all if comes that don't add up too much. Most companies today, not including the top five, can't get 1000 units out the door. If we made what Disney makes, we could spend what Disney spends.
Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07
Posted - Feb 9 2010 : 11:51PM
Off topic I know, but just too good not to post. What does Marcellus Wallace, look like? What? What country you from?! What, what? What ain't no country I ever heard of! They speak English in What? ...What? ENGLISH, MOTHERFUCKER, do you speak it?! YES! Then you know what I'm sayin'! Yes... Describe what Marcellus Wallace, LOOKS like! ...What?! Say what again! Say, what, again, I dare you, I double-dare you, motherfucker, say what one more god damn time! He's-he's-he's Black! Go on! He's-he's bald! Does he look like a bitch? What?... *Gunshot* AUN! AUGH! DOES, HE, LOOK... LIKE... A BITCH? NAAOUU! Then why you tryin' to fuck 'im like a bitch, Brett? i didn't! Yes you did! Yes, you, did, Brett! You tried to fuck him - and Marcellus Wallace don't like to be fucked by anybody except Mrs. Wallace.! Edited by - hollywood woody on 2/9/2010 11:53:59 PM Edited by - hollywood woody on 2/9/2010 11:57:15 PM
Good stuff, man. Sorry I'm so slow. Not sure if you've seen the Muppet version, too, but it's good. Now THAT'S the kind of parodies I like to see! (OK...back on topic now...)
I'm talking out of print. There are plenty of 1990's and 2000's titles that's are out of print (AFAIK), based on when I check at ADT, and the various other online sellers, it is always "unavailable" or "out of stock", constantly for months and months of repeated checking. For example this DVD from 2006 is impossible to find and it's only 3-4 years old. My honest attempt consists of: Step 1. check IAFD to see what comes up in the "Buy" column. Step 2. If no luck, then I Google the studio name to see if they have a website or contact email or any sign of life. Step 3. Search ADT forum for the title, on the off chance somebody here has discussed it, and maybe I could get a lead from that discussion. Step 4. Google the title. If nothing comes up there (not even fileshares/torrents), then "all bets are off" and I will grab it wherever (if ever) I find it next. Regarding Ebay: The vastness of Ebay is overrated. More often than not, I come up empty when seeking something very specific on Ebay.
Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07
Posted - Feb 10 2010 : 11:53AM
I say fair enough, then go get it. No one is losing money on something they don't sell, if it is for your personal use, no one cares, IMO.
[Link]
Clam Digger Deactivated User
Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good. 2268 Posts 1/05
Posted - Feb 11 2010 : 7:03PM
Nor is it cheap to do business with a company that owns nost of them,
[Link]
TeganLovesSara Deactivated User
Are you smoking yet? 252 Posts 12/09
Posted - Feb 11 2010 : 10:14PM
One more time for the clueless porn producers. FILE HOSTERS/TORRENT SITEES PAY OR GIVE INCENTIVES FOR PEOPLE TO UPLOAD. Tubsites might be a problem,but they are on the bottom rung of the totem pole. Where do you think people who upload to tubesites get their material? duh. think about like this if you where a musician, who would you go after first? a site the allowed users to download you albums for free to do with what they please (re-upload for incentives). Or the net based radio, that simply streamed your material without permission? You guys are lost....Your lost....lost....lost. Your 100 steps behind.
^I hear you; I figured I was miscomprehending something regarding how the tube sites became the #1 concern while torrents/fileshares are barely even acknowledged. Maybe it's the "instant video, no downloading, no hassle" aspect that makes the insiders feel the tubes are the biggest threat.
Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07
Posted - Feb 12 2010 : 12:20PM
So what are the steps you would take to stop it. Please educate me. We go after the people who are streaming our stuff already and have it taken down, backed up by lawsuits. So how are we 100 steps behind? It seems that what you are saying we already do. Is there something else I am missing?
As an aside, has anyone ever successfully sent a DMCA to www.filestube.com? It seems impossible to me. Their spam filters prevent e-mails from going out. I don't get it but it's hilarious in its own way.
This may have been addressed as I haven't read every post, but I've heard that just about every DVD or tape that is released gets put up on usenet, and people do not pay to download that stuff, so what is the motive of the people that are doing the uploading? It seems like a lot of time and effort expended when they aren't making any money from it. Edited by - mapofhawaii on 2/13/2010 12:56:47 AM
They do it as a hobby and/or to gain some small piece of internet celebrity within the filesharing communities. The people who upload to Rapidshare-type sites can possibly earn free membership services and (indirectly) money as a benefit of having uploaded "popular" files. The few who've openly discussed the money aspect indicate the amount is nominal, enough to maybe pay their ISP fee or some website subscription or suchlike. Edited by - ninja1 on 2/13/2010 3:38:43 PM
You are wrong. Firstly porn folks don't have to go after torrents/file sharing sites. The film and music industries are already after them. If they can't stop them with the vast resources they have at their disposal then there is nothing the porners can do. Tubes, on the other hand, are porn-specific problem. And they are much more dangerous than torrents and file sharing. Everyone is just a few clicks away from a free porn database containing thousands of full movies and scenes of all genres. How can anyone compete with such offer? For established porn companies there is simply no way that will allow them to survive alongside the tubes for longer than a few years. They are the part of the adult entertainment industry that will be utterly crushed by the new market environment created by the appearance of the tubes. Porn as a whole will survive. Some small producers can protect themselves against tubes by specializing on one particular ultra-tiny niche in which they can establish themselves as the sole provider of content and then carefully protecting it. Porn girls can offset some of the lost income from shooting scenes by concentrating on webcams/featuring/escorting. We the customers can always rely on amateur/semi-professional porn to satisfy our needs. But the companies are doomed, IMO, all of them. Even those who align themselves with tubes(brazzers), or try to do business with them (Jules Jordan) are fucked. Gigantic traffic that the tubes generate is a clear proof that the customer has learned that porn doesn't cost a thing. The only paying customers left are most likely mainly veteran raincoaters. Heck, I'd bet that half of the folks on this board who are regularly kissing the girls' asses in star crossed and maybe 9 of 10 of local IR junkies hasn't bought a single DVD or subscribed to a single paysite during the last 24 months. Please excuse the length of this post, I just can't stand when people deliberately choose to ignore the reality...
Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07
Posted - Feb 14 2010 : 4:14AM
While I agree with most of your observations, I disagree that dvd and porn especially is doomed. People are tactile buyers, they love the shopping experience and they love their porn. In the long run, you may be correct, but as far as a couple years away, I kind of doubt it. We shoot a movie for multiple facets of distribution. Broadcast, VOD, international along with dvds for domestic use. Porn does cost something, it costs to produce it, if we can't make money from production, then why bother making it. Along with new technology comes new ways of protecting yourself. If mainstream movies are also on these tube sites, which I am sure they are, why do people still go to theaters? Because they are social beasts. Shopping is more than a necessity, it is to some, an addiction. Believe me, when the new starlets stop getting paid, they will stop performing.
On a related note, a friend of mine recently told me that someone he works with has a son that is computer savvy, and he had been downloading mainstream movies before they were even on DVD, and one day he came home to find all of his utilities, including TV and internet turned off. He said the FBI was behind it, but that they couldn't prove anything due to a wireless router or some such. My question though is if they couldn't prove it, how could they get his stuff turned off? I could see them trying to crack down on pirating of major motion pictures, but I doubt they would do the same for porn.
[Link]
Clam Digger Deactivated User
Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good. 2268 Posts 1/05
Posted - Feb 14 2010 : 1:27PM
^Urban legends start out this way. I doubt access to TV was prevented. However anything we do on the Internet does leave finger prints and if someone has the patience and skill they can become evidence. And the perp's can and are prosecuted. But it does become a matter of economics in so much as how muchtime and money does an organization wish to spend on nailing an individual.
[Link]
TeganLovesSara Deactivated User
Are you smoking yet? 252 Posts 12/09
Posted - Feb 14 2010 : 2:35PM
TeganLovesSara wrote: One more time for the clueless porn producers. FILE HOSTERS/TORRENT SITEES PAY OR GIVE INCENTIVES FOR PEOPLE TO UPLOAD. Tubsites might be a problem,but they are on the bottom rung of the totem pole. Where do you think people who upload to tubesites get their material? duh.
[Link]
Zablon Deactivated User
162 Posts 2/10
Posted - Feb 14 2010 : 2:58PM
Can't the Porn industry just do what Napster did?Don't they have laws out there?
And there is some public relations scare tactic at play also. The RIAA made a big deal over suing some university/student somewhere for millions of dollars a few years ago. My nephew (a college freshman) says he was warned during orientation about using torrents, and there is some campus official (nephew even knew the person's name) who will administer punitive action to torrent users. So...suing someone to make a bigtime example does have a trickle down impact.
There's so much bad porn out there, good porn is like finding a diamond in the dunghill. Just think of all the porn that is STILL not watched even though it is available for free. Crazy crazy crazy I agree with the posters and Hirsch who say that a new business model is needed, it's the nature of the beast. Edited by - makir35 on 2/14/2010 9:22:50 PM
Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07
Posted - Feb 15 2010 : 12:42PM
tely choose to ignore the reality... [/quote] TeganLovesSara wrote: One more time for the clueless porn producers. FILE HOSTERS/TORRENT SITEES PAY OR GIVE INCENTIVES FOR PEOPLE TO UPLOAD. Tubsites might be a problem,but they are on the bottom rung of the totem pole. Where do you think people who upload to tubesites get their material? duh. [/quote] I think you are under estimating porn producers, what you are saying is no a state secret. The torrent sites are put on notice, they are told daily to remove content. It is taken down Monday morning, and put back up Monday afternoon by someone else. They know they are not supposed to use copyrighted material. They are off shore and are hard to bring to justice. We all know what you know, you offer no solutions, just keep telling us how clueless we are, which is not really the case.
[Link]
TeganLovesSara Deactivated User
Are you smoking yet? 252 Posts 12/09
Posted - Feb 15 2010 : 2:39PM
i apologize if i'm coming across as a dick. i just see people talking about tubesites in this thread, and i totally disagree with that being the no #1 problem with regards to piracy.
Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07
Posted - Feb 15 2010 : 4:28PM
I understand that, and I think the torrent sites are the root of the problem too, but then it spreads like a cancer. I think everyone, especially Steven Hirsch, is well aware of the problem. He did Nightline discussing this whole thing the other night. He is anything but clueless. Do you have any suggestions to combat this? I know they are thinking of a new business model where the sites would end up paying.
Wicked Pictures,Vouyer Media, Axel Braun Productions, Marc Dorcel, JoyBear Pictures, abbywinters.com 1390 Posts 7/05
Posted - Feb 15 2010 : 4:48PM
I can't either, which is why I'm charmed by the fact that you've got executives who represent Vivid, Wicked, Vouyer Media, Burning Angel and other companies trying to have a consensus-reality based conversation with you, and yet you, TeaganLoveSara can do no better than call us names. Gladly returning to that Porn Poop boycott... Roads To Moscow / Twitter: @roadstomoscow
[Link]
TeganLovesSara Deactivated User
Are you smoking yet? 252 Posts 12/09
Posted - Feb 15 2010 : 5:38PM
clueless is an adjective. I haven't called anyone in this thread any names and i've already apologized if my posts came across as obnoxious and arrogant.
Wicked Pictures,Vouyer Media, Axel Braun Productions, Marc Dorcel, JoyBear Pictures, abbywinters.com 1390 Posts 7/05
Posted - Feb 15 2010 : 7:07PM
It's cool, I understand. Vivid, Wicked, Burning Angel, Vouyer Media and others are clueless (adj.) and only you, Teagan Loves Sara, with your stunning insider's insight, could possibly be correct. Awesome man, thanks for clarifying.
demicomix.com Carnal Comics - True Stories of Adult Film Stars 105 Posts 6/04
Posted - Feb 16 2010 : 5:56PM
There is some news about Brazzers that will make many people in the porn industry happy. There were people in the x-rated industry who voted for Barack Obama because they worried that another Republican administration would continue the practice of obscenity prosecutions against major porn companies. The government seizing money from Brazzers goes beyond not prosecuting for obscenity, this is helping the porn industry by going after a company that is profiting from content being stolen from movies. Of course, the government is going after the company for other reasons but this still helps the x-rated industry in general. On top of this, Pink Visuals has filed a lawsuit against Brazzers, this is a double whammy. "Brazzers Parent Fighting $6.4 Million Forfeiture Suit" http://www.xbiz.com/news/117517 "US Gov Seizes $6 Million from Brazzer’s Mansef, Inc" http://www.lukeisback.com/?p=10926#comments "Pink Visual Files $6.75M Suit Against Brazzers" http://www.xbiz.com/news/117538 http://www.demicomix.com/Carnal01.htm http://groups.yahoo.com/group/carnalcomics
Good. I loathe Brazzers, not only for their glut of extremely lame, derivative content, but more so for what they've done to other content providers in the industry.
Tracking performer appearances on adult websites across the globe 127 Posts 2/08
Posted - Feb 16 2010 : 6:44PM
On this subject it'd be cool if some of you could fill out my survey on this subject. It's completely confidential but I've only received 8 responses so far (people probably think it's a trap!) and I can't get a fair picture on so few responses. http://surveys.polldaddy.com/s/CF76A47AD3961BC3/ It's purely for research purposes (if I get enough responses) and as I said it's completely confidential/anonymous, no info on you is kept, so if you take it please answer truthfully. It should take no more than 2 minutes to fill out. (if the mods aren't happy with me posting this please delete it)
Q9 of the survey is a loaded question and needs more available answer choices. I almost bailed but answered anyway (since it was mandatory); rolled a dice to choose my answer.
Tracking performer appearances on adult websites across the globe 127 Posts 2/08
Posted - Feb 16 2010 : 9:15PM
I've added an 'other' field to that question as I'm not sure what other options to put in apart from the ones there. If you want to add any additional comments you can send an email through the contact form on my site, just use a fake name/email address to keep your confidentiality. It's purely a small research survey by myself it's not anything official or supported by anyone and the info won't be sent on to anyone. The only place the overall results are likely to appear is on the blog area of my site. Just to repeat/confirm it's all completely confidential, no personal info is entered/kept. Thanks to the people that have responded so far, the more (and hopefully truthful) responses it gets the better the results will be. Edited by - awmdb on 2/16/2010 9:16:17 PM
Posted - Feb 9 2010 : 2:33PM
