Pressuring women into doing IR is akin to rape... (page 10)

Author	Post
duefuss Member Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious - Brendan Gill 723 Posts 4/09	Posted - Oct 20 2009 : 12:44AM BlackSix wrote: Bluto wrote: Typical pseudo-intellectual blather. When did you "construct" your sexuality? Click to expand For every gay man who says they were born that way there are plenty who will admit that it is something they grew into, essentially developed a taste for it, starting when they were young. If the gay/straight divide is so clear-cut and biological how do you explain men who have gay sex while in prison but don't after? Or all the female porn performers who have lesbian sex on camera but not off? Or the male performers who have also done gay porn? Or lesbian women who have had sex with straight men, or gay men? Or gay men who have sex with lesbians, or straight women? Or lesbians who like to have sex with trannies? Gore Vidal, who was gay long before most of us were born, has said that the idea of the 'homosexual' is a modern invention, that when he was younger one committed homosexual acts but the notion of being a 'homosexual' is the invention of psychologists and the creation of an identity for gay men in the 60s and 70s. I think Vidal knows a bit more about this than you might with your simple 'gay/straight' equation. Edited by - BlackSix on 10/20/2009 12:02:15 AM Click to expand If there are all these gay people who "will admit that it is something they grew into," why can't you name one of them? Instead, your examples to prove, if I read it aright, that homosexuality is acquired/chosen rather than the involuntary outcome of environmental, genetic, or epigenetic factors support no such contention. All are rather examples of BIsexuality or, as in the case of the prisoners, desperation that settles for any semblance of sex that is available. Bisexuality, like hetero or homosexuality is the result of factors as yet imperfectly understood, but not choice. None of your examples even pertain to the issue of whether homosexuality is a choice or not. You might have cited the Spartans, who were when young encouraged to homosexuality in the belief that involvement with women would divert them from their training. But, even here, there was no choice, and, like your prisoners, most of them reverted to heterosexual relationships in maturity. Leonidas of Thermopylae fame was very famously married and quite in love with his wife. The issue of homosexuality as choice has always baffled me. Given the response in our culture to homosexuals -- everything from mockery and bad jokes to denial of justice to violence on a par with early twentieth century racism, who would be INSANE enough to actualy CHOOSE to be gay? Come to that, when did anyone ever CHOOSE to be straight. As far as anyone knows so far, it all just happens. BTW, Gore Vidal, whose "Lincoln" I highly reccomend is an intellectual exhibitionist, who would and has said anything to get a rise out of people or to sound to himself like he knows what he's talking about. Being a best selling author, even a gay one, doesn't confer on you the authority to be anything -- except a best selling author. [Link]
Tobias Deactivated User 475 Posts 1/09	Posted - Oct 20 2009 : 12:51AM Nimrod wrote: There is no doubt in my mind that if this forum wasn't moderated, Tobias would be using some very strong and explicit language... Click to expand And for your next trick, will you read my mind? Good grief. Anyone who has read any of my posts knows that I don't use obscene/explicit language. [Link]
duefuss Member Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious - Brendan Gill 723 Posts 4/09	Posted - Oct 20 2009 : 12:53AM MrLongStiff wrote: WE SEE THROUGH YOUR BULLSHIT. Click to expand Now if you could only see through your own. Edited by - duefuss on 10/20/2009 12:57:20 AM [Link]
Nimrod Member 624 Posts 7/09	Posted - Oct 20 2009 : 1:01AM Tobias wrote: Nimrod wrote: There is no doubt in my mind that if this forum wasn't moderated, Tobias would be using some very strong and explicit language... Click to expand And for your next trick, will you read my mind? Good grief. Anyone who has read any of my posts knows that I don't use obscene/explicit language. Click to expand You don't have a choice because as you know very well you will get banned if you use racial slurs. Edited by - Nimrod on 10/20/2009 1:09:27 AM [Link]

MrLongStiff Deactivated User 87 Posts 7/09	Posted - Oct 20 2009 : 1:02AM duefuss wrote: MrLongStiff wrote: WE SEE THROUGH YOUR BULLSHIT. Click to expand Now if you could only see through your own. Edited by - duefuss on 10/20/2009 12:57:20 AM Click to expand LOL, what a well thought out response to the INTELLECTUAL SLAP DOWN I handed your white agenda driven garbage. Don’t let the door hit you on you way out. LOL Edited by - mrlongstiff on 10/20/2009 1:08:15 AM [Link]
Tobias Deactivated User 475 Posts 1/09	Posted - Oct 20 2009 : 1:09AM Nimrod wrote: Tobias wrote: Nimrod wrote: There is no doubt in my mind that if this forum wasn't moderated, Tobias would be using some very strong and explicit language... Click to expand And for your next trick, will you read my mind? Good grief. Anyone who has read any of my posts knows that I don't use obscene/explicit language. Click to expand You don't have a choice because as you know ver well you will get banned if you use racial slurs. Click to expand I don't use obscene language or personal attacks in my posts - not because it's part of the forum rules - but rather because I don't think it has any place in civil discussion and/or debate. In the Latin, it's referred to as "ad hominem" (an argument against the person rather than the issue at hand). And, as any debater will tell you, ad hominem attacks are a sign of deficiency in the speaker's own argument. [Link]
BlackSix All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07	Posted - Oct 20 2009 : 1:15AM duefuss wrote: If there are all these gay people who "will admit that it is something they grew into," why can't you name one of them? Click to expand Gore Vidal for one, whose essay on this issue is excellent, 'exhibitionist' or not he's had sex with more men than you, I'd wager, and so is probably more qualified to talk about what gay does or doesn't mean. Pat Califa (Public Sex, Macho Sluts) and Stan Persky (Autobiography of a Tattoo) as well. In porn you can read the interviews of George Payne and Marc Stevens for men who didn't feel the need to define themselves as homosexual or bisexual. I also have several friends who are lesbian and/or homosexual who have moved between being 'straight' or 'gay' throughout their lives who have said the same thing as Califa, Vidal, Persky, but I guess they must be full of it too right? There's a taboo and bias among some homosexuals against those who don't settle down into an appropriate 'top/bottom' or 'butch/femme' identity. One could call them 'bisexual' but I think that's often just an attempt to find a new, tidy category to fit people under. As far as why would anyone 'choose' to be gay, I never said anyone did. Experiences while one is developing sexually can obviously influence one's sexual taste and orientation, the only reason this has become controversial to say is because the right-wing in the US have tried to dismiss homosexuality as a 'choice.' Once one has developed a sexual orientation it is hard to shake, for instance those into S&M often can suffer socially for their sexual tastes, but no one is proclaiming that being into S&M is 'biologically inherent.' On another extreme, pedophiles certainly suffer (quite rightly) for their sexual desires but that doesn't prevent them from acting on them. There could be some combination of 'inherent' biological orientation and environmental factors that make some people 'homosexual' but there's still no really convincing science that it is biological, and the social aspect is changing all the time. When I hung out a lot with young gay or lesbian friends their sense of sexuality is often very fluid, they have a lot fewer concerns with these definitions than older homosexuals, who have more strictly constructed their identities around being 'gay' or 'lesbian.' I had a friend who identified as lesbian who liked female-to-male trannies, under what rubric does she fall? Anyway, we're way off topic. Edited by - BlackSix on 10/20/2009 1:30:33 AM [Link]
duefuss Member Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious - Brendan Gill 723 Posts 4/09	Posted - Oct 20 2009 : 1:25AM Tobias wrote: These numbers clearly show that rape is a more common occurrence for black males than for white males. But, the questions we should be asking ourselves are: (1) Why is this the case? (2) Is rape somehow considered more acceptable behavior among black males than among white males? and (3) If that is the case, then is acceptance of such behavior filtering down into porn? These are all valid questions. ______________________________________________ I admit to this whole thread to see all of this 'black guys think rape is okay' argument. Reading the unabridged "Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire" would be less of a job at this point. But I haven't seen anyone bring up the fact, yet, that rape has nothing to do with sex. Rape is an act of violence. Violence comes from anger, hatred, frustration; maybe from a million different places, but it is not an act of lust. And, since this thread started (a hundred years ago, it seems) to be about interacial sex, shouldn't someone be looking at statistics about the rape victims? Don't know for sure, but I doubt that all or even most black rapists' victims were white. Anyway, rape statistics are a lousy place to go for any revelations about sexual preference. I think they are far better indicators of the marginalization, economic and social injustice that still burdens the African American in this country. [Link]
MrLongStiff Deactivated User 87 Posts 7/09	Posted - Oct 20 2009 : 2:40AM duefuss wrote: Tobias wrote: These numbers clearly show that rape is a more common occurrence for black males than for white males. But, the questions we should be asking ourselves are: (1) Why is this the case? (2) Is rape somehow considered more acceptable behavior among black males than among white males? and (3) If that is the case, then is acceptance of such behavior filtering down into porn? These are all valid questions. ______________________________________________ I admit to this whole thread to see all of this 'black guys think rape is okay' argument. Reading the unabridged "Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire" would be less of a job at this point. But I haven't seen anyone bring up the fact, yet, that rape has nothing to do with sex. Rape is an act of violence. Violence comes from anger, hatred, frustration; maybe from a million different places, but it is not an act of lust. And, since this thread started (a hundred years ago, it seems) to be about interacial sex, shouldn't someone be looking at statistics about the rape victims? Don't know for sure, but I doubt that all or even most black rapists' victims were white. Anyway, rape statistics are a lousy place to go for any revelations about sexual preference. I think they are far better indicators of the marginalization, economic and social injustice that still burdens the African American in this country. Click to expand YAWN!! The closet racist fake intellectual dumbass Duffus strikes again with his (stealth) support of the racist bigot Tobias' garbage. Duffus, your foolish attempts to associate interracial sex and Black socioeconomic injustice to the rape of white women is as pathetic as you. You stupid racist numbskulls think alike. Duffus, your racist farce has been busted. GIVE UP trying to play the intellectual coz it's apparent to everyone on this thread you're as DUMB as a bag of rocks. Edited by - mrlongstiff on 10/20/2009 4:07:55 AM [Link]
pokerman Member J lo booty 404 Posts 4/09	Posted - Oct 20 2009 : 4:51AM Nimrod wrote: pokerman wrote: Nimrod is this you lol! I was looking up stuff about Obama and I seen your name. Is it time for an executive order against the redneck racists attacking Obama ? Click to expand I can't find it but it was definitely not me. Click to expand It must be a coincidence lol! [Link]
killbillvol69 All-Star Member ^Lucy Pinder 18634 Posts 4/08	Posted - Oct 20 2009 : 7:19AM As much as everyone is getting crazy here, I gotta say: MrLongStiff: you're out of line. Shape up man. I mean it. Go read the forum etiquette again. And to everyone else: stop calling each other racists, or reverse-racists, or too-PC-to-deal-with-reality idiots, or whatever else. [Link]
Bluto Deactivated User 511 Posts 3/09	Posted - Oct 20 2009 : 7:25AM If this were a thread about Canadians or Puerto Ricans, it would have been locked after 3 posts. [Link]
Gore Gore Girl Doctor of the Erotic Arts 7238 Posts 1/09	Posted - Oct 20 2009 : 9:11AM Thanks Blacksix - you articulated exactly what I was trying to say - sexual categories are constructions, much like gendered categories - invented to organize/restrict/compartmentalize society and its citizens. I think this had something to do with the thread a few dozen pages back... [Link]
the unknown pervert Deactivated User I'd like to stay but I've got a plane to catch. 3243 Posts 5/06	Posted - Oct 20 2009 : 9:51AM Aplus wrote: The last few pages really show why I really love threads like this and think they are important. Some think there are simply too many threads like this, but the last few pages kind of show me why I think there can almost never be enough of them. Racism can take on many forms, some blatant, most subtle IMO. And like someone on here recently said, a preference simply isn't always the same. And yet it's usually the #1 excuse to hide behind. Can't get to the truth or someone's idea of the truth, without talking about it though. Click to expand The same could also be said about the perception of racism. [Link]

the unknown pervert Deactivated User I'd like to stay but I've got a plane to catch. 3243 Posts 5/06	Posted - Oct 20 2009 : 10:00AM MrLongStiff wrote: duefuss wrote: Yes, regrettably, it has sailed. Did you not see it go? If you have not, go listen to some of the slave narratives, unquestionably the most important work done by the WPA in the 30's(www.loc.gov). Compare what you hear there to what folks are denouncing here as racism. I'm not for a moment saying 'it ain't bad 'cause others had it worse.' I am saying that people on this thread are splashing the word 'racism' around like they were talking about Medger Evers gunned down in his own driveway in front of his children or Emmett Till beaten to a grisly pulp for smiling at a white girl or Seth Concklin wrapped in chains and drowned in Indiana for trying to get a woman and her two babies to freedom. THAT kind of racism is as foriegn to all of us as the Death Camps. And the people who endured it,most dead and gone, fought:learned to read when literacy could get them hanged, stood fire hoses and dogs and lynchings, so you and I could get past it all, so we could regret that it ever happened and live in a place that was as though it never did. They suffered so we all would be judged 'not by the color of our skin, but by the strength of our character.' What then would they think of people here seeing racism in some poor girl's fear of having to explain to her stupid family why she did a sex scene with a black guy? What would they think of someone called a racist because she had sex with black girls,but not black men? What even would they think of condemning a girl who refused to work with blacks, instead of pitying her, trying to forgive her, trying to show her that skin color means nothing? They did NOT suffer and overcome so that you or anybody could resent what THEY went through: they suffered so that you could learn from what they went through to understand that racism is ignorance, that it is foolish. Instead, I think they would be astonished as I am, disappointed, and perhaps even angry that racism is being kept alive as much by its victims as it is by the poor dumb bastards that still believe in it. Click to expand Hey Duffus, get the fuck out of here with your pseudo intellectual GARBAGE. Your attempts to try and make excuses and seek an easy way out for these racist porn skanks has failed miserably. NEVER EVER EVER try to intrude your white agenda ideas and attempt imagine what our Black ancestors who were brutally murdered by the hands of white racists think as a contrast comparison to the racist attitudes practiced by white porn girls in the hope of pardoning them from blame while bashing the Black porn fans who rightly pointed them out. You show your own ignorance and high almighty attitude by even having the audacity to suggest that our murdered assertors would be ashamed of the Black porn fans on this board for pointing out the SAME Jim Crow, apartheid tactics in 2009 that these worthless porngirls are practicing in which is the same discrimination our ancestors suffered a hundred years ago. The thing that IDIOTS like you and porn skank Hannah continually fail to realize is that discrimination based on race is RACISM. Our Black ancestors who were murdered by white went through this daily. Its people like YOU and Hannah that try their best to trivialize this current matter by comparing that to something more brutal as an attempt to pardon these racist porn girls but unluckily for you, your attempts are not working, WE SEE THROUGH YOUR BULLSHIT Click to expand If I was any good at photoshopping things this post would consist of Martin Luther King's face imposed on the Captain Picard palm to the forehead photo. It is perfectly appropriate that the most intelligent post in this whole F5 natural disaster of a thread is made by someone with the user name of duefuss. [Link]
duefuss Member Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious - Brendan Gill 723 Posts 4/09	Posted - Oct 20 2009 : 10:03AM BlackSix wrote: duefuss wrote: If there are all these gay people who "will admit that it is something they grew into," why can't you name one of them? Click to expand Gore Vidal for one, whose essay on this issue is excellent, 'exhibitionist' or not he's had sex with more men than you, I'd wager, and so is probably more qualified to talk about what gay does or doesn't mean. Pat Califa (Public Sex, Macho Sluts) and Stan Persky (Autobiography of a Tattoo) as well. In porn you can read the interviews of George Payne and Marc Stevens for men who didn't feel the need to define themselves as homosexual or bisexual. I also have several friends who are lesbian and/or homosexual who have moved between being 'straight' or 'gay' throughout their lives who have said the same thing as Califa, Vidal, Persky, but I guess they must be full of it too right? There's a taboo and bias among some homosexuals against those who don't settle down into an appropriate 'top/bottom' or 'butch/femme' identity. One could call them 'bisexual' but I think that's often just an attempt to find a new, tidy category to fit people under. As far as why would anyone 'choose' to be gay, I never said anyone did. Experiences while one is developing sexually can obviously influence one's sexual taste and orientation, the only reason this has become controversial to say is because the right-wing in the US have tried to dismiss homosexuality as a 'choice.' Once one has developed a sexual orientation it is hard to shake, for instance those into S&M often can suffer socially for their sexual tastes, but no one is proclaiming that being into S&M is 'biologically inherent.' On another extreme, pedophiles certainly suffer (quite rightly) for their sexual desires but that doesn't prevent them from acting on them. There could be some combination of 'inherent' biological orientation and environmental factors that make some people 'homosexual' but there's still no really convincing science that it is biological, and the social aspect is changing all the time. When I hung out a lot with young gay or lesbian friends their sense of sexuality is often very fluid, they have a lot fewer concerns with these definitions than older homosexuals, who have more strictly constructed their identities around being 'gay' or 'lesbian.' I had a friend who identified as lesbian who liked female-to-male trannies, under what rubric does she fall? Anyway, we're way off topic. Edited by - BlackSix on 10/20/2009 1:30:33 AM Click to expand Yeah, we are, but I appreciate your clarification. We seem to be arguing at cross purposes a little. If you are arguing against categories of sexuality and pointing out the immense complexity involved in the forming of individual sexual preferences, I couldn't agree more. What gets my dander up are the homophobes and pious frauds who declare that God gave us a free will, so gays (or anybody that doesn't think their way, if can call it thinking) choose to prefer men, period. Therefore, all gays are evil and its okay to do everything to them from denying them a job to exterminating them. Haven't changed my mind about Vidal, though, but thanks for the reading list. I'll use it. [Link]
duefuss Member Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious - Brendan Gill 723 Posts 4/09	Posted - Oct 20 2009 : 10:19AM killbillvol69 wrote: As much as everyone is getting crazy here, I gotta say: MrLongStiff: you're out of line. Shape up man. I mean it. Go read the forum etiquette again. And to everyone else: stop calling each other racists, or reverse-racists, or too-PC-to-deal-with-reality idiots, or whatever else. Click to expand This is a subject that flares tempers, that is often immune to reason on both sides. No news there. On the other hand, as some have already said, this thread has also seen a lot of thoughtful commentary on the subject as well as graphically demonstrating how corrosive racism is. Altogether, it has been a very worthwhile and informative discussion, and I would hate to see it locked for the presence of a few ill mannered angry people who think name calling bestows authority to their point of view. [Link]
Tobias Deactivated User 475 Posts 1/09	Posted - Oct 20 2009 : 1:16PM killbillvol69 wrote: As much as everyone is getting crazy here, I gotta say: MrLongStiff: you're out of line. Shape up man. I mean it. Go read the forum etiquette again. And to everyone else: stop calling each other racists, or reverse-racists, or too-PC-to-deal-with-reality idiots, or whatever else. Click to expand Things always get kind of crazy after you go to sleep. Perhaps you could sleep less or hire an intern? Just an idea. [Link]
Zaer Deactivated User 249 Posts 10/07	Posted - Oct 20 2009 : 1:25PM the unknown pervert wrote: duefuss wrote: Yes, regrettably, it has sailed. Did you not see it go? If you have not, go listen to some of the slave narratives, unquestionably the most important work done by the WPA in the 30's(www.loc.gov). Compare what you hear there to what folks are denouncing here as racism. I'm not for a moment saying 'it ain't bad 'cause others had it worse.' I am saying that people on this thread are splashing the word 'racism' around like they were talking about Medger Evers gunned down in his own driveway in front of his children or Emmett Till beaten to a grisly pulp for smiling at a white girl or Seth Concklin wrapped in chains and drowned in Indiana for trying to get a woman and her two babies to freedom. THAT kind of racism is as foriegn to all of us as the Death Camps. And the people who endured it,most dead and gone, fought:learned to read when literacy could get them hanged, stood fire hoses and dogs and lynchings, so you and I could get past it all, so we could regret that it ever happened and live in a place that was as though it never did. They suffered so we all would be judged 'not by the color of our skin, but by the strength of our character.' What then would they think of people here seeing racism in some poor girl's fear of having to explain to her stupid family why she did a sex scene with a black guy? What would they think of someone called a racist because she had sex with black girls,but not black men? What even would they think of condemning a girl who refused to work with blacks, instead of pitying her, trying to forgive her, trying to show her that skin color means nothing? They did NOT suffer and overcome so that you or anybody could resent what THEY went through: they suffered so that you could learn from what they went through to understand that racism is ignorance, that it is foolish. Instead, I think they would be astonished as I am, disappointed, and perhaps even angry that racism is being kept alive as much by its victims as it is by the poor dumb bastards that still believe in it. Click to expand If I was any good at photoshopping things this post would consist of Martin Luther King's face imposed on the Captain Picard palm to the forehead photo. It is perfectly appropriate that the most intelligent post in this whole F5 natural disaster of a thread is made by someone with the user name of duefuss. Click to expand tup, your attempt to use MLK to defend your racism is vile. As for duefuss, for him to try and use the memory of the immense incalculable suffering of Blacks, which was cause by whites, to make some argument concerning how Blacks should perceive the current situation is quite absurd. Edited by - Zaer on 10/20/2009 1:26:32 PM [Link]
ntfighter Member 645 Posts 7/07	Posted - Oct 20 2009 : 3:40PM duefuss wrote: tritone wrote: However, I do think that the actual US slaves should have been paid reparations. That ship has sailed, but it should have been done. Click to expand Yes, regrettably, it has sailed. Did you not see it go? If you have not, go listen to some of the slave narratives, unquestionably the most important work done by the WPA in the 30's(www.loc.gov). Compare what you hear there to what folks are denouncing here as racism. I'm not for a moment saying 'it ain't bad 'cause others had it worse.' I am saying that people on this thread are splashing the word 'racism' around like they were talking about Medger Evers gunned down in his own driveway in front of his children or Emmett Till beaten to a grisly pulp for smiling at a white girl or Seth Concklin wrapped in chains and drowned in Indiana for trying to get a woman and her two babies to freedom. THAT kind of racism is as foriegn to all of us as the Death Camps. And the people who endured it,most dead and gone, fought:learned to read when literacy could get them hanged, stood fire hoses and dogs and lynchings, so you and I could get past it all, so we could regret that it ever happened and live in a place that was as though it never did. They suffered so we all would be judged 'not by the color of our skin, but by the strength of our character.' What then would they think of people here seeing racism in some poor girl's fear of having to explain to her stupid family why she did a sex scene with a black guy? What would they think of someone called a racist because she had sex with black girls,but not black men? What even would they think of condemning a girl who refused to work with blacks, instead of pitying her, trying to forgive her, trying to show her that skin color means nothing? They did NOT suffer and overcome so that you or anybody could resent what THEY went through: they suffered so that you could learn from what they went through to understand that racism is ignorance, that it is foolish. Instead, I think they would be astonished as I am, disappointed, and perhaps even angry that racism is being kept alive as much by its victims as it is by the poor dumb bastards that still believe in it. Click to expand This post is unbelievable. Your posts have all been offensive, but this one set a new mark. The sheer arrogance, the gall, the condescension. I can't control my anger enough right now to reply in a manner that won't cause me to be banned. Edited by - ntfighter on 10/20/2009 3:43:21 PM [Link]
BrazilianDude Deactivated User Minha Vaidade me deixou cansado 351 Posts 8/09	Posted - Oct 20 2009 : 4:10PM what a disaster this thread has become, that's why stupid nonsensical threads such as this should always be locked before things get too ugly [o\\|] who are we kidding ? it doesn't take a genius to realize tobias just wanted to start shit, you can't expect to have a reasonable discussion while comparing interracial porn with rape, it's not just conceptually wrong ,it's downright insulting, this thread was doomed from the start. Edited by - braziliandude on 10/20/2009 4:36:07 PM [Link]
MrLongStiff Deactivated User 87 Posts 7/09	Posted - Oct 20 2009 : 4:29PM the unknown pervert wrote: MrLongStiff wrote: duefuss wrote: Yes, regrettably, it has sailed. Did you not see it go? If you have not, go listen to some of the slave narratives, unquestionably the most important work done by the WPA in the 30's(www.loc.gov). Compare what you hear there to what folks are denouncing here as racism. I'm not for a moment saying 'it ain't bad 'cause others had it worse.' I am saying that people on this thread are splashing the word 'racism' around like they were talking about Medger Evers gunned down in his own driveway in front of his children or Emmett Till beaten to a grisly pulp for smiling at a white girl or Seth Concklin wrapped in chains and drowned in Indiana for trying to get a woman and her two babies to freedom. THAT kind of racism is as foriegn to all of us as the Death Camps. And the people who endured it,most dead and gone, fought:learned to read when literacy could get them hanged, stood fire hoses and dogs and lynchings, so you and I could get past it all, so we could regret that it ever happened and live in a place that was as though it never did. They suffered so we all would be judged 'not by the color of our skin, but by the strength of our character.' What then would they think of people here seeing racism in some poor girl's fear of having to explain to her stupid family why she did a sex scene with a black guy? What would they think of someone called a racist because she had sex with black girls,but not black men? What even would they think of condemning a girl who refused to work with blacks, instead of pitying her, trying to forgive her, trying to show her that skin color means nothing? They did NOT suffer and overcome so that you or anybody could resent what THEY went through: they suffered so that you could learn from what they went through to understand that racism is ignorance, that it is foolish. Instead, I think they would be astonished as I am, disappointed, and perhaps even angry that racism is being kept alive as much by its victims as it is by the poor dumb bastards that still believe in it. Click to expand Hey Duffus, get the fuck out of here with your pseudo intellectual GARBAGE. Your attempts to try and make excuses and seek an easy way out for these racist porn skanks has failed miserably. NEVER EVER EVER try to intrude your white agenda ideas and attempt imagine what our Black ancestors who were brutally murdered by the hands of white racists think as a contrast comparison to the racist attitudes practiced by white porn girls in the hope of pardoning them from blame while bashing the Black porn fans who rightly pointed them out. You show your own ignorance and high almighty attitude by even having the audacity to suggest that our murdered assertors would be ashamed of the Black porn fans on this board for pointing out the SAME Jim Crow, apartheid tactics in 2009 that these worthless porngirls are practicing in which is the same discrimination our ancestors suffered a hundred years ago. The thing that IDIOTS like you and porn skank Hannah continually fail to realize is that discrimination based on race is RACISM. Our Black ancestors who were murdered by white went through this daily. Its people like YOU and Hannah that try their best to trivialize this current matter by comparing that to something more brutal as an attempt to pardon these racist porn girls but unluckily for you, your attempts are not working, WE SEE THROUGH YOUR BULLSHIT Click to expand If I was any good at photoshopping things this post would consist of Martin Luther King's face imposed on the Captain Picard palm to the forehead photo. It is perfectly appropriate that the most intelligent post in this whole F5 natural disaster of a thread is made by someone with the user name of duefuss. Click to expand Here we go again!! rolls eyes If these pathetic responses keeps up, we'll soon have leader of the KKK posting in this thread CLAIMING that Malcolm X would not be happy about us Black men pointing out the racial discrimination that these white porn actresses are practicing. Plus it is perfectly appropriate that the most pathetic post in this whole F5 natural disaster of a thread is made by someone with the user name of duefuss. Edited by - mrlongstiff on 10/20/2009 4:41:01 PM [Link]
BYOB_Kenobi Senior Member “Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards.” - Kierkegaard 2684 Posts 8/09	Posted - Oct 20 2009 : 4:55PM WOW (to past few pages) Edited by - BYOB_Kenobi on 10/20/2009 11:56:25 PM [Link]
killbillvol69 All-Star Member ^Lucy Pinder 18634 Posts 4/08	Posted - Oct 20 2009 : 5:58PM As dumb or as smart as this argument is in different places in the thread, I think we're all forgetting that it's extremely likely that the porn stars would actually know a lot more about what's going on than we do. So, what do they have to say? Well, we've had Annette Schwarz come here and post, and she made it pretty damn clear that she was positive that this involves straight up racism, and not questions of 'preference' or what have you. We've had comments from Mariah Milano via freeones (Nimrod it would be nice to have a link for that BTW) who has said pretty much exactly the same thing. Here's Julian St. Jox [ invalid url ]. We've had Hannah West make the argument that it is simply a question of preference of skin tone on a partner, and nothing else whatsoever. Some of you agree, some don't. Well, without saying she's right or wrong, remember from other threads (and maybe in this one as well?) I've shown you all how to find out what ratio of non-black girls are not willing to work with black guys in the US porn industry: it's about 70%. Notice Julian gives the same ratio, so I'm not pulling this stuff out of my ass here. So, is it really a simple case of 7 out of 10 girls in the biz preferring lighter skin tones as an aesthetic choice, and nothing else? Is it really the case that, for 7 out of every 10 girls, skin tone is so important in a person they're working with in a porn scene that there's absolutely no way they'll work with someone if their skin is darker than such-and-such? And it has nothing whatsoever to do with race (or ethnicity, or ancestry, or whatever term you want to use if you don't want to use the term 'race')? What do you suppose the likelihood of that would be? Further, the point has been made (and it has been questioned a great deal) that working with a black MAN is different than working with a black WOMAN. Some here say it's ridiculous to say that. Well again, let's look at what the porn stars have to say. Both Roxy Deville and Stormy Daniels, as just two examples, have said many times that their family would never approve of them "doing IR", yet they've both done scenes with black women. Roxy even said explicitly, here on ADT, that her family wouldn't approve of her working with a black man, but are OK with her working with a black woman. So, if there's no difference, then why is there a difference for these families? (Answer: because there is a difference.) One can intellectually challenge any and all arguments being made here, but in the end we're talking about something that's real; it's really going on, in the US porn biz, right now. And unfortunately for some of you, what you're saying clashes with these realities. [Link]

Tobias Deactivated User 475 Posts 1/09	Posted - Oct 20 2009 : 6:34PM KB, It seems as though you're now trying to push the argument in one direction as opposed to moderate the discussion. Regardless of the woman's motivation for not having interracial sex, a majority of posters to this thread have been in support of her decision. The fact that a handful of very outspoken posters (Brazilian, Nimrod, etc.) assert racist motivations are behind any conduct they disagree with (including the creation of this thread) doesn't make those assertions fact. What is fact, however, is that we've established a complex set of needs/wants/desires go into a woman's desire to have or not have interracial sex. And, could we really have expected any other outcome? Women aren't like light switches, resting solely in an "on" or "off" position. They're human, with a myriad of shades of grey - just like men. At the end of the day, it's not all just about race nor is it just about categorizing people. These are things we've learned from this thread. So, don't let a few bad eggs lead you to lose your sense of fairness to hear out both sides. [Link]
BrazilianDude Deactivated User Minha Vaidade me deixou cansado 351 Posts 8/09	Posted - Oct 20 2009 : 7:03PM the question we should be asking ourselves is: WHY WOULD ANNETTE SCHWARZ LIE ?, not calling anyone a liar, far from me, but a dodger would have every reason to hide her true reasons to dodge, make up excuses and even go as far as to lie but a girl like annette schwarz, what reason would she have to lie ? if she says in most cases it's about racism she only proves my point. and who cares anyway?, interracial fans don't like dodgers regardless of their reasons to dodge, knowing their reasons to dodge won't change the fact that they're dodgers. Edited by - braziliandude on 10/20/2009 7:12:04 PM [Link]
Tobias Deactivated User 475 Posts 1/09	Posted - Oct 20 2009 : 7:12PM BrazilianDude wrote: interracial fans don't like dodgers regardless of their reasons to dodge, knowing anyone's reason to dodge won't change the fact that they're a dodger. Click to expand Every time you use the phrase "dodger" Joe Torre cringes. [Link]
the unknown pervert Deactivated User I'd like to stay but I've got a plane to catch. 3243 Posts 5/06	Posted - Oct 20 2009 : 8:06PM Zaer wrote: tup, your attempt to use MLK to defend your racism is vile. As for duefuss, for him to try and use the memory of the immense incalculable suffering of Blacks, which was cause by whites, to make some argument concerning how Blacks should perceive the current situation is quite absurd. Edited by - Zaer on 10/20/2009 1:26:32 PM Click to expand Some people see racism in every Rorschach test card in the deck. You know next to nothing about me, what I believe, who my friends are, or anything else yet you can come up with a diagnosis of racism based on ? My belief that skin color should count for nothing in any circumstance? My belief that minorities today have the intelligence and capability to accomplish their life goals without the patronization of oppressor's guilt being dumped on them? I have to be the only racist in the world who quotes Sly & the Family Stone lyrics on a regular basis. But, hey what do I know. Sometimes I'm right, but I can be wrong My own beliefs are in my song The butcher, the baker, the drummer and then Makes no difference what group I'm in I am everyday people Yeah, yeah There is a blue one who can't accept the green one For living with a fat one trying to be a skinny one Different strokes for different folks And so on, and so on and scooby-dooby-doo Ooh, sha, sha We got to live together I am no better, and neither are you We are the same, whatever we do You love me, you hate me, you know me and then You can't figure out the bag I'm in I am everyday people Yeah, yeah There is a long hair that doesn't like the short hair For being such a rich one that will not help the poor one Different strokes for different folks And so on and so on and scooby-dooby-doo Ooh, sha, sha We got to live together There is a yellow one that won't accept the black one That won't accept the red one that won't accept the white one Different strokes for different folks And so on, and so on and scooby-dooby-doo Ooh, sha, sha I am everyday people [Link]
RectomRamington Member Everybody needs a little R&R 63 Posts 8/09	Posted - Oct 20 2009 : 8:06PM Id love to know the stats for the % European chicks working in the stats who do I.R. compared to the American girls. I think America just has a problem. Cant live with em cant live without em. Americans are dumb people and this is why people think that. just fighting the inevitable, UNITY. [Link]
Nimrod Member 624 Posts 7/09	Posted - Oct 20 2009 : 8:22PM killbillvol69 wrote: Well, we've had Annette Schwarz come here and post, and she made it pretty damn clear that she was positive that this involves straight up racism, and not questions of 'preference' or what have you. We've had comments from Mariah Milano via freeones (Nimrod it would be nice to have a link for that BTW) who has said pretty much exactly the same thing. Here's Julian St. Jox [ invalid url ]. Click to expand Here is the link: http://board.freeones.com/showthread.php?t=278079 By the way 70 % is extremely high. I never knew it was that high but the more I think about it, it makes sense. Edited by - Nimrod on 10/20/2009 10:12:48 PM [Link]
Nimrod Member 624 Posts 7/09	Posted - Oct 20 2009 : 8:32PM killbillvol69 wrote: Further, the point has been made (and it has been questioned a great deal) that working with a black MAN is different than working with a black WOMAN. Some here say it's ridiculous to say that. Well again, let's look at what the porn stars have to say. Both Roxy Deville and Stormy Daniels, as just two examples, have said many times that their family would never approve of them "doing IR", yet they've both done scenes with black women. Roxy even said explicitly, here on ADT, that her family wouldn't approve of her working with a black man, but are OK with her working with a black woman. So, if there's no difference, then why is there a difference for these families? (Answer: because there is a difference.) Click to expand I didn't know Stormy worked with black women. Who did she work with? Those families don't mind black women because some people don't consider "sex" between two women as actual sex. They think that because there is no "real" penetration, it's not really sex...the same way some people don't consider oral sex as actual sex. [Link]
killbillvol69 All-Star Member ^Lucy Pinder 18634 Posts 4/08	Posted - Oct 20 2009 : 11:49PM Tobias wrote: KB, It seems as though you're now trying to push the argument in one direction as opposed to moderate the discussion. ... .... What is fact, however, is that we've established a complex set of needs/wants/desires go into a woman's desire to have or not have interracial sex. And, could we really have expected any other outcome? Women aren't like light switches, resting solely in an "on" or "off" position. They're human, with a myriad of shades of grey - just like men. At the end of the day, it's not all just about race nor is it just about categorizing people. These are things we've learned from this thread. So, don't let a few bad eggs lead you to lose your sense of fairness to hear out both sides. Click to expand Tobias: while I'm a moderator, I'm also a member, and I have never shied away from sharing my opinion. I like to think that I can be both. Though I'll freely admit it's a fine line to walk, and I have stepped too far to both sides on many occasions. Having said that, again looking at what you've said here, it's a complex set of reasons and blah blah blah, this is the kind of thing I was talking about in my post. Yours is a hypothetical, logical, philosophical argument, but it doesn't gel with what's really going on, and what the stars are really saying. And I certainly haven't been influenced in any way by any of the bad eggs of whom you speak. The vast majority of posts in this thread, from all sorts of people, have only served to annoy me. [Link]
killbillvol69 All-Star Member ^Lucy Pinder 18634 Posts 4/08	Posted - Oct 20 2009 : 11:55PM Nimrod wrote: I didn't know Stormy worked with black women. Who did she work with? Click to expand Dee in Predator. Maybe others I dunno. [Link]
Tobias Deactivated User 475 Posts 1/09	Posted - Oct 21 2009 : 12:27AM killbillvol69 wrote: Tobias wrote: Blah, blah, blah... Click to expand The vast majority of posts in this thread, from all sorts of people, have only served to annoy me. Click to expand I can see that. [Link]

supa_dupa09 Deactivated User 118 Posts 6/09	Posted - Oct 21 2009 : 5:32AM (Got it from another forum, I dont know if thats allowed. Is it, can we post from other forums?) This guy right here has not only the right idea, but shows at least he knows whats going on, I thought I was the only one. It was a response to alexis texas b.s. thats still going on, but I cant believe no one else thought about it: braziliannegro wrote: "The only way to punch back at racism by these porn agencies who do it, is if there arent already to have a black talent agency to hire girls of all races to do IR and girls of all races to not do IR, give them a taste of their own medicine. If there isnt a black talent agency already they should hire a few whitegirls of their own that wouldnt mind doing only black guys onscreen and only have their agent get them IR gigs. And with the black and latina girls get more black and latina girls that dont do whiteguys. This si the only way in the porn industry that you are going to fight the real racism in porn, is to go tit fot tat. Because alot of these porn agencies obviously have somethin against black men if they allow a black girl to only do IR, an indian girl to only do IR with whiteguys, asian girls to only do IR with whiteguys, and even latinas to only do IR with whiteguys, but not a whitegirl to only do IR with black guys, it also shows the power is in their hands. I dont believe for on minute that there is no whitegirl out there that wouldnt MORE than mind being an IR only pornstar. I BELIEVE THAT THERE IS THE REVERSE ALEXIS TEXAS OUT THERE! The porn world just dont want her. And its up to the black men in porn to go get her, and if the black men in porn is tired of the racism, then like I said if there isnt already a black porn agency, they need to go get one and punch back. Even though we already have black girls that dont or havent done whiteguys like the famous FLAME and big booty latina Darlene, to me thats enough, but I guess understandably others would probably like to see racism in porn get hit back with a HOT ASS whitegirl that only does black guys." Racism in porn is rarely, rarely with the girls, I think once what everybody else is failing to realize is that there have been pornstars that have mentioned their agencies before when it comes to IR. I tried to nail it in here, but I will let someone else do it. [Link]
Aplus Senior Member 1431 Posts 5/05	Posted - Oct 21 2009 : 5:47AM I just don't believe that is very realistic Supa. Nor do I again believe in fighting discrimination and racism with more of the same. Kind of defeats the purpose actually IMO. [Link]
BrazilianDude Deactivated User Minha Vaidade me deixou cansado 351 Posts 8/09	Posted - Oct 21 2009 : 6:53AM just a comment in passing, about that brazilian whatever, it's not me, i really don't care for A.T. far from being my type. Edited by - braziliandude on 10/21/2009 7:04:13 AM [Link]
Nimrod Member 624 Posts 7/09	Posted - Oct 21 2009 : 9:44AM killbillvol69 wrote: Nimrod wrote: I didn't know Stormy worked with black women. Who did she work with? Click to expand Dee in Predator. Maybe others I dunno. Click to expand Even though I think Dee is mixed (must have some black in her) and should be considered black by the US standards, she is considered in the porn business as hispanic/latino. I know the term latino can also apply to dark black men from South America too. Dee is kinda like Ramon who girls like Hannah West and Rachel Roxx didn't see as a black men. Don't get me wrong, I view light skinned blacks and biracials as black but I doubt her co stars view her as a black woman. [Link]
Bluto Deactivated User 511 Posts 3/09	Posted - Oct 21 2009 : 3:19PM You and your butt buddy will eventually figure it out. Pots and pans yo man! [Link]
killbillvol69 All-Star Member ^Lucy Pinder 18634 Posts 4/08	Posted - Oct 21 2009 : 4:02PM Thank you Nimrod for clearing it up for all of us. And your point was? Just leave my comment be, man. No more to say. Nothing of what I've said becomes any more or less true, so why nitpick? I only answered your question to be nice anyway, it's not like it was a particularly good request. I mean I made a post that discussed all sorts of pertinent points to this discussion, and all you can come up with is "who did Stormy work with?" Lame. How about Devon Michaels? Stormy worked with her in Three Wishes. She's gotta be half-black too, so if you smash her together with Dee, that makes one hole black girl, right? There. Done. ;) [Link]
Hannah Westxxx Member The classy side of shameless 506 Posts 8/07	Posted - Oct 21 2009 : 4:40PM I'd like to bring one other point to the table.. Something to consider: Why is it that white men have a problem with white girls having sex with black men? Okay.. here's something some of you might not see first hand everyday, but this is what I know.. as a white girl, if you have sex with a black man, it seems to dim your shine to the white boys.. True story One of the first questions I am ever asked in a relationship is "Have you ever been with a black guy?" I say "No" the response is always a sigh of relief and "good." Some people may not openly state that they are glad I don't do IR but let me make it very clear that I get very graphic emails stating they they are indeed glad I don't do IR because black men are disgusting and for the record, I don't respond.. SO it appears that not only are black men a little insecure about white girls not having sex with them based off a preference of skin tone.. White men are also insecure about measuring up after a black man "once you go black you don't go back" haven't we all heard this? Is this because the experience is THAT enjoyable or is it because white men don't want you anymore? or at least that's the only thing I can figure. If I had 10 cents for everytime a white man was greatful that I am not interested in IR.. I'd be one rich bitch right now.. I'm interested on what you all have to say about this.. because as we get pressured to do IR.. behind the scenes we are praised for NOT doing it.. I think it has to do with the sterotype that black cocks are huge.. Maybe white guys are intimiadated more by this than what they let on.. It's never been said "oh their cocks are so huge how could I ever please you.." BUT that's what I believe it boils down to.. (and I happen to believe this sterotype esp in the sense of porn: IR exists primaryly to showcase massive black cocks and tiny white girls blah blah blah.. and most of the IR porn you watch has more racial slurs than an alabama town hall meeting, so don't call me crazy) White men SEEMINGLY like to preserve white girls and I know plenty of people who refuse to have have sex with anyone who has had sex with a black man.. THAT IS DEF RACSIST to the MAX! And we can't say I fall in this box.. had sex with black girls.. had sex with ramon.. had sex with Anette who has def had sex with black guys.. had sex with a lot of IR performers and for me it def doesn't dim the shine.. but I wanna know why it's like that for others.. My bf for instance finds it okay that he had sex with black girls but finds it a releif that I haven't had sex with a black guy.. why??? This whole damn issue is biased as fuck. I am so sickened with it that I had to change the history channel the other night because they started talking about race wars.. so instead I'll just dabble and try to draw some other conclusions... damned if you do, damned if you don't so pin this to the disection table please [Link]
Tobias Deactivated User 475 Posts 1/09	Posted - Oct 21 2009 : 4:51PM Hannah, Actually, it's only a small fraction of white guys who take issue with interracial sex - mostly the lunatic right wing fringe. I mean, seriously, you'd have to be a whack job not to appreciate the interracial work Jenna Haze or Monique Alexander have been doing. What most decent guys would protest against, however, is having women pressured into doing something they don't want to do in the first place. Let her arrive at her own decision minus the taunting that "you're a racist unless you do interracial." [Link]
kaiser1one Member Dark Avatar 142 Posts 10/07	Posted - Oct 21 2009 : 4:51PM I watched the documentary Inter-racial Dating in America. I bought the DVD a few weeks after it came out. One of the groups they talked to were a group of white guys. One of the guys said, "When you see a black guy with an average or not so great looking white chick it's no big deal, but when you see them with a hot white chick it's like "Aw your stealing our women!"." It's an interesting watch as it covers blacks, whites, and inter-racial couples. I honestly couldn't tell you why white guys are like that. One of my old friend's broke up with his gf a few years back and she started dating a black guy. While telling me about it he was like, "I'm not racist or anything but come on! A black guy!?" I just dunno why ppl think this way. [Link]
pokerman Member J lo booty 404 Posts 4/09	Posted - Oct 21 2009 : 4:55PM Ramon from monsters off cock is down as black/latino on IAFD. Anyone that has worked with him is down as an IR scene. http://www.iafd.com/person.rme/perfid=ramontpe/gender=m/ramon.htm [Link]
Tobias Deactivated User 475 Posts 1/09	Posted - Oct 21 2009 : 5:04PM Maybe this is a bigger issue in the South, where you have a higher percentage of the population that is black. Where I live (supposedly one of the most "liberal" regions in the U.S.), you can go weeks without seeing a black male/white female couple. On the other hand, you can throw a brick out the window and hit a white male/asian female couple 50% of the time. [Link]
MrLongStiff Deactivated User 87 Posts 7/09	Posted - Oct 21 2009 : 5:06PM Hannah Westxxx wrote: "White men are insecure about measuring up after a black man "once you go black you don't go back" haven't we all heard this?" Click to expand YES, those White guys FEAR that they wont measure up after a White girl has been with a Blackman. It’s called FEAR of the BIG BLACK DICK. Racism is driven by FEAR. Insecurity is driven by FEAR Jealousy is driven by FEAR Hate is driven by FEAR Those racist White guys sending porn girls stupid emails, plus racist porn agents and White boyfriends of pornstars all suffer from the above FEAR of the BIG BLACK DICK taking away their White girls. Hannah Westxxx wrote: "Is this because the experience is THAT enjoyable?" Click to expand YES, according to a lot of White girls. Just speak to all the White girls you know in the industry who've done at least 5 - 10 IR scenes especially with LEXINGTON STEELE, JUSTIN SLAYER, RICO STRONG, RICHARD MAN and PRICE YAHSHUA. Speak to Jenna Haze, Belladonna, Annette Schwarz, Tori Black, Kelly Divine, Gianna etc, they'll tell you. Check out an extremely popular IR scene starring 'Justin Slayer' and 'Angel Dark' in the movie called 'Just Fuckin' (2004). It's probably the best sex scene ever in the history of porn. After watching that clip, a lot of folks had to light up a cigarette. Edited by - mrlongstiff on 10/21/2009 6:53:28 PM [Link]
Tobias Deactivated User 475 Posts 1/09	Posted - Oct 21 2009 : 5:19PM pokerman wrote: Ramon from monsters off cock is down as black/latino on IAFD. Anyone that has worked with him is down as an IR scene. http://www.iafd.com/person.rme/perfid=ramontpe/gender=m/ramon.htm Click to expand Was there ever any question that Ramon was black? Simply because a guy has a Latin name, was born in Latin America or speaks Spanish doesn't do away with his African ancestry. To say otherwise is nonsensical. Also, it's interesting to note that when you check Ramon's scene pairings, you find that he's worked with 100+ white women, 7 asian women, and only 2 black women (Alicia Tyler and Giselle Capri). If people are going to attack white female performers for not working with black men, then why don't they also attack black male performers for not working with black women? That seems like a double standard and not the least bit hypocritical. [Link]
pokerman Member J lo booty 404 Posts 4/09	Posted - Oct 21 2009 : 5:40PM Tobias wrote: pokerman wrote: Ramon from monsters off cock is down as black/latino on IAFD. Anyone that has worked with him is down as an IR scene. http://www.iafd.com/person.rme/perfid=ramontpe/gender=m/ramon.htm Click to expand Was there ever any question that Ramon was black? Simply because a guy has a Latin name, was born in Latin America or speaks Spanish doesn't do away with his African ancestry. To say otherwise is nonsensical. Also, it's interesting to note that when you check Ramon's scene pairings, you find that he's worked with 100+ white women, 7 asian women, and only 2 black women (Alicia Tyler and Giselle Capri). If people are going to attack white female performers for not working with black men, then why don't they also attack black male performers for not working with black women? That seems like a double standard and not the least bit hypocritical. Click to expand I don't know but Nimrod was on about Kristina Rose not doing IR on another thread. Well then there goes the argument that Kristina Rose and Hannah West haven't done IR. [ invalid url ] Edited by - pokerman on 10/21/2009 5:42:45 PM [Link]
MrLongStiff Deactivated User 87 Posts 7/09	Posted - Oct 21 2009 : 5:40PM . Edited by - mrlongstiff on 10/21/2009 5:40:53 PM [Link]
lack100 Deactivated User 139 Posts 8/09	Posted - Oct 21 2009 : 5:43PM Its because unlike other races we black men are viewed as unhuman like by a lot. You got white, asian, latino, and those all sound find to an degree. The color black in general is viewed as evil, devil like. 666..type shit. This is why blacks are put on a fetish list. we are considered different. Thats why her bf and others hate when their girls have been with us. You dont hear to many black women saying they get hate messages from black men because we know they are gonna fuck white dudes, they cant get away with the "im not attracted to white boys" claim. I think this why girls refuse scenes with black men. If the only race a lot of girls are never attracted to but all the others are always fine. Porn women who dodge view blacks as unhuman like. You just dont know it. There are plenty of girls who find other races just as disgusting as black men. Thats why they arent going to sleep with just any white,asian,cuban,mexican ect.. like porn girls do. [Link]

Author

Post

duefuss
Member

Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious - Brendan Gill
723 Posts
4/09

Posted - Oct 20 2009 : 12:44AM

BlackSix wrote:
Bluto wrote:
Typical pseudo-intellectual blather. When did you "construct" your sexuality?
Click to expand
For every gay man who says they were born that way there are plenty who will admit that it is something they grew into, essentially developed a taste for it, starting when they were young.
If the gay/straight divide is so clear-cut and biological how do you explain men who have gay sex while in prison but don't after?
Or all the female porn performers who have lesbian sex on camera but not off?
Or the male performers who have also done gay porn?
Or lesbian women who have had sex with straight men, or gay men?
Or gay men who have sex with lesbians, or straight women?
Or lesbians who like to have sex with trannies?
Gore Vidal, who was gay long before most of us were born, has said that the idea of the 'homosexual' is a modern invention, that when he was younger one committed homosexual acts but the notion of being a 'homosexual' is the invention of psychologists and the creation of an identity for gay men in the 60s and 70s.
I think Vidal knows a bit more about this than you might with your simple 'gay/straight' equation.
Edited by - BlackSix on 10/20/2009 12:02:15 AM
Click to expand

If there are all these gay people who "will admit that it is something they grew into," why can't you name one of them?
Instead, your examples to prove, if I read it aright, that homosexuality is acquired/chosen rather than the involuntary outcome of environmental, genetic, or epigenetic factors support no such contention.
All are rather examples of BIsexuality or, as in the case of the prisoners, desperation that settles for any semblance of sex that is available. Bisexuality, like hetero or homosexuality is the result of factors as yet imperfectly understood, but not choice. None of your examples even pertain to the issue of whether homosexuality is a choice or not.
You might have cited the Spartans, who were when young encouraged to homosexuality in the belief that involvement with women would divert them from their training. But, even here, there was no choice, and, like your prisoners, most of them reverted to heterosexual relationships in maturity. Leonidas of Thermopylae fame was very famously married and quite in love with his wife.
The issue of homosexuality as choice has always baffled me. Given the response in our culture to homosexuals -- everything from mockery and bad jokes to denial of justice to violence on a par with early twentieth century racism, who would be INSANE enough to actualy CHOOSE to be gay?
Come to that, when did anyone ever CHOOSE to be straight. As far as anyone knows so far, it all just happens.
BTW, Gore Vidal, whose "Lincoln" I highly reccomend is an intellectual exhibitionist, who would and has said anything to get a rise out of people or to sound to himself like he knows what he's talking about. Being a best selling author, even a gay one, doesn't confer on you the authority to be anything -- except a best selling author.

[Link]

Tobias
Deactivated User

475 Posts
1/09

Posted - Oct 20 2009 : 12:51AM

And for your next trick, will you read my mind? Good grief. Anyone who has read any of my posts knows that I don't use obscene/explicit language.

[Link]

duefuss
Member

Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious - Brendan Gill
723 Posts
4/09

Posted - Oct 20 2009 : 12:53AM

Now if you could only see through your own.

Edited by - duefuss on 10/20/2009 12:57:20 AM

[Link]

Nimrod
Member

624 Posts
7/09

Posted - Oct 20 2009 : 1:01AM

You don't have a choice because as you know very well you will get banned if you use racial slurs.
Edited by - Nimrod on 10/20/2009 1:09:27 AM

[Link]

MrLongStiff
Deactivated User

87 Posts
7/09

Posted - Oct 20 2009 : 1:02AM

LOL, what a well thought out response to the INTELLECTUAL SLAP DOWN I handed your white agenda driven garbage.
Don’t let the door hit you on you way out. LOL
Edited by - mrlongstiff on 10/20/2009 1:08:15 AM

[Link]

Tobias
Deactivated User

475 Posts
1/09

Posted - Oct 20 2009 : 1:09AM

I don't use obscene language or personal attacks in my posts - not because it's part of the forum rules - but rather because I don't think it has any place in civil discussion and/or debate. In the Latin, it's referred to as "ad hominem" (an argument against the person rather than the issue at hand). And, as any debater will tell you, ad hominem attacks are a sign of deficiency in the speaker's own argument.

[Link]

BlackSix

All-Star Member

pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world
12377 Posts
9/07

Posted - Oct 20 2009 : 1:15AM

Gore Vidal for one, whose essay on this issue is excellent, 'exhibitionist' or not he's had sex with more men than you, I'd wager, and so is probably more qualified to talk about what gay does or doesn't mean.
Pat Califa (Public Sex, Macho Sluts) and Stan Persky (Autobiography of a Tattoo) as well. In porn you can read the interviews of George Payne and Marc Stevens for men who didn't feel the need to define themselves as homosexual or bisexual.
I also have several friends who are lesbian and/or homosexual who have moved between being 'straight' or 'gay' throughout their lives who have said the same thing as Califa, Vidal, Persky, but I guess they must be full of it too right? There's a taboo and bias among some homosexuals against those who don't settle down into an appropriate 'top/bottom' or 'butch/femme' identity. One could call them 'bisexual' but I think that's often just an attempt to find a new, tidy category to fit people under.
As far as why would anyone 'choose' to be gay, I never said anyone did. Experiences while one is developing sexually can obviously influence one's sexual taste and orientation, the only reason this has become controversial to say is because the right-wing in the US have tried to dismiss homosexuality as a 'choice.'
Once one has developed a sexual orientation it is hard to shake, for instance those into S&M often can suffer socially for their sexual tastes, but no one is proclaiming that being into S&M is 'biologically inherent.' On another extreme, pedophiles certainly suffer (quite rightly) for their sexual desires but that doesn't prevent them from acting on them.
There could be some combination of 'inherent' biological orientation and environmental factors that make some people 'homosexual' but there's still no really convincing science that it is biological, and the social aspect is changing all the time.
When I hung out a lot with young gay or lesbian friends their sense of sexuality is often very fluid, they have a lot fewer concerns with these definitions than older homosexuals, who have more strictly constructed their identities around being 'gay' or 'lesbian.' I had a friend who identified as lesbian who liked female-to-male trannies, under what rubric does she fall?
Anyway, we're way off topic.
Edited by - BlackSix on 10/20/2009 1:30:33 AM

[Link]

duefuss
Member

Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious - Brendan Gill
723 Posts
4/09

Posted - Oct 20 2009 : 1:25AM

Tobias wrote:
These numbers clearly show that rape is a more common occurrence for black males than for white males. But, the questions we should be asking ourselves are: (1) Why is this the case? (2) Is rape somehow considered more acceptable behavior among black males than among white males? and (3) If that is the case, then is acceptance of such behavior filtering down into porn? These are all valid questions.
______________________________________________
I admit to this whole thread to see all of this 'black guys think rape is okay' argument. Reading the unabridged "Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire" would be less of a job at this point. But I haven't seen anyone bring up the fact, yet, that rape has nothing to do with sex. Rape is an act of violence. Violence comes from anger, hatred, frustration; maybe from a million different places, but it is not an act of lust.
And, since this thread started (a hundred years ago, it seems) to be about interacial sex, shouldn't someone be looking at statistics about the rape victims? Don't know for sure, but I doubt that all or even most black rapists' victims were white.
Anyway, rape statistics are a lousy place to go for any revelations about sexual preference. I think they are far better indicators of the marginalization, economic and social injustice that still burdens the African American in this country.

[Link]

MrLongStiff
Deactivated User

87 Posts
7/09

Posted - Oct 20 2009 : 2:40AM

duefuss wrote:
Tobias wrote:
These numbers clearly show that rape is a more common occurrence for black males than for white males. But, the questions we should be asking ourselves are: (1) Why is this the case? (2) Is rape somehow considered more acceptable behavior among black males than among white males? and (3) If that is the case, then is acceptance of such behavior filtering down into porn? These are all valid questions.
______________________________________________
I admit to this whole thread to see all of this 'black guys think rape is okay' argument. Reading the unabridged "Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire" would be less of a job at this point. But I haven't seen anyone bring up the fact, yet, that rape has nothing to do with sex. Rape is an act of violence. Violence comes from anger, hatred, frustration; maybe from a million different places, but it is not an act of lust.
And, since this thread started (a hundred years ago, it seems) to be about interacial sex, shouldn't someone be looking at statistics about the rape victims? Don't know for sure, but I doubt that all or even most black rapists' victims were white.
Anyway, rape statistics are a lousy place to go for any revelations about sexual preference. I think they are far better indicators of the marginalization, economic and social injustice that still burdens the African American in this country.
Click to expand

YAWN!!

The closet racist fake intellectual dumbass Duffus strikes again with his (stealth) support of the racist bigot Tobias' garbage.
Duffus, your foolish attempts to associate interracial sex and Black socioeconomic injustice to the rape of white women is as pathetic as you.
You stupid racist numbskulls think alike.
Duffus, your racist farce has been busted. GIVE UP trying to play the intellectual coz it's apparent to everyone on this thread you're as DUMB as a bag of rocks.

Edited by - mrlongstiff on 10/20/2009 4:07:55 AM

[Link]

pokerman
Member

J lo booty
404 Posts
4/09

Posted - Oct 20 2009 : 4:51AM

It must be a coincidence lol!

[Link]

killbillvol69

All-Star Member

^Lucy Pinder
18634 Posts
4/08

Posted - Oct 20 2009 : 7:19AM

As much as everyone is getting crazy here, I gotta say:
MrLongStiff: you're out of line. Shape up man. I mean it. Go read the forum etiquette again.
And to everyone else: stop calling each other racists, or reverse-racists, or too-PC-to-deal-with-reality idiots, or whatever else.

[Link]

Bluto
Deactivated User

511 Posts
3/09

Posted - Oct 20 2009 : 7:25AM

If this were a thread about Canadians or Puerto Ricans, it would have been locked after 3 posts.

[Link]

Gore Gore Girl

Doctor of the Erotic Arts

7238 Posts
1/09

Posted - Oct 20 2009 : 9:11AM

Thanks Blacksix - you articulated exactly what I was trying to say - sexual categories are constructions, much like gendered categories - invented to organize/restrict/compartmentalize society and its citizens. I think this had something to do with the thread a few dozen pages back...

[Link]

the unknown pervert
Deactivated User

I'd like to stay but I've got a plane to catch.
3243 Posts
5/06

Posted - Oct 20 2009 : 9:51AM

The same could also be said about the perception of racism.

[Link]

the unknown pervert
Deactivated User

I'd like to stay but I've got a plane to catch.
3243 Posts
5/06

Posted - Oct 20 2009 : 10:00AM

MrLongStiff wrote:
duefuss wrote:
Yes, regrettably, it has sailed. Did you not see it go?
If you have not, go listen to some of the slave narratives, unquestionably the most important work done by the WPA in the 30's(www.loc.gov). Compare what you hear there to what folks are denouncing here as racism.
I'm not for a moment saying 'it ain't bad 'cause others had it worse.' I am saying that people on this thread are splashing the word 'racism' around like they were talking about Medger Evers gunned down in his own driveway in front of his children or Emmett Till beaten to a grisly pulp for smiling at a white girl or Seth Concklin wrapped in chains and drowned in Indiana for trying to get a woman and her two babies to freedom.
THAT kind of racism is as foriegn to all of us as the Death Camps. And the people who endured it,most dead and gone, fought:learned to read when literacy could get them hanged, stood fire hoses and dogs and lynchings, so you and I could get past it all, so we could regret that it ever happened and live in a place that was as though it never did.
They suffered so we all would be judged 'not by the color of our skin, but by the strength of our character.'
What then would they think of people here seeing racism in some poor girl's fear of having to explain to her stupid family why she did a sex scene with a black guy?
What would they think of someone called a racist because she had sex with black girls,but not black men?
What even would they think of condemning a girl who refused to work with blacks, instead of pitying her, trying to forgive her, trying to show her that skin color means nothing?
They did NOT suffer and overcome so that you or anybody could resent what THEY went through: they suffered so that you could learn from what they went through to understand that racism is ignorance, that it is foolish.
Instead, I think they would be astonished as I am, disappointed, and perhaps even angry that racism is being kept alive as much by its victims as it is by the poor dumb bastards that still believe in it.
Click to expand
Hey Duffus, get the fuck out of here with your pseudo intellectual GARBAGE.
Your attempts to try and make excuses and seek an easy way out for these racist porn skanks has failed miserably.
NEVER EVER EVER try to intrude your white agenda ideas and attempt imagine what our Black ancestors who were brutally murdered by the hands of white racists think as a contrast comparison to the racist attitudes practiced by white porn girls in the hope of pardoning them from blame while bashing the Black porn fans who rightly pointed them out.
You show your own ignorance and high almighty attitude by even having the audacity to suggest that our murdered assertors would be ashamed of the Black porn fans on this board for pointing out the SAME Jim Crow, apartheid tactics in 2009 that these worthless porngirls are practicing in which is the same discrimination our ancestors suffered a hundred years ago.
The thing that IDIOTS like you and porn skank Hannah continually fail to realize is that discrimination based on race is RACISM. Our Black ancestors who were murdered by white went through this daily. Its people like YOU and Hannah that try their best to trivialize this current matter by comparing that to something more brutal as an attempt to pardon these racist porn girls but unluckily for you, your attempts are not working, WE SEE THROUGH YOUR BULLSHIT
Click to expand

If I was any good at photoshopping things this post would consist of Martin Luther King's face imposed on the Captain Picard palm to the forehead photo.
It is perfectly appropriate that the most intelligent post in this whole F5 natural disaster of a thread is made by someone with the user name of duefuss.

[Link]

duefuss
Member

Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious - Brendan Gill
723 Posts
4/09

Posted - Oct 20 2009 : 10:03AM

BlackSix wrote:
duefuss wrote:
If there are all these gay people who "will admit that it is something they grew into," why can't you name one of them?
Click to expand
Gore Vidal for one, whose essay on this issue is excellent, 'exhibitionist' or not he's had sex with more men than you, I'd wager, and so is probably more qualified to talk about what gay does or doesn't mean.
Pat Califa (Public Sex, Macho Sluts) and Stan Persky (Autobiography of a Tattoo) as well. In porn you can read the interviews of George Payne and Marc Stevens for men who didn't feel the need to define themselves as homosexual or bisexual.
I also have several friends who are lesbian and/or homosexual who have moved between being 'straight' or 'gay' throughout their lives who have said the same thing as Califa, Vidal, Persky, but I guess they must be full of it too right? There's a taboo and bias among some homosexuals against those who don't settle down into an appropriate 'top/bottom' or 'butch/femme' identity. One could call them 'bisexual' but I think that's often just an attempt to find a new, tidy category to fit people under.
As far as why would anyone 'choose' to be gay, I never said anyone did. Experiences while one is developing sexually can obviously influence one's sexual taste and orientation, the only reason this has become controversial to say is because the right-wing in the US have tried to dismiss homosexuality as a 'choice.'
Once one has developed a sexual orientation it is hard to shake, for instance those into S&M often can suffer socially for their sexual tastes, but no one is proclaiming that being into S&M is 'biologically inherent.' On another extreme, pedophiles certainly suffer (quite rightly) for their sexual desires but that doesn't prevent them from acting on them.
There could be some combination of 'inherent' biological orientation and environmental factors that make some people 'homosexual' but there's still no really convincing science that it is biological, and the social aspect is changing all the time.
When I hung out a lot with young gay or lesbian friends their sense of sexuality is often very fluid, they have a lot fewer concerns with these definitions than older homosexuals, who have more strictly constructed their identities around being 'gay' or 'lesbian.' I had a friend who identified as lesbian who liked female-to-male trannies, under what rubric does she fall?
Anyway, we're way off topic.
Edited by - BlackSix on 10/20/2009 1:30:33 AM
Click to expand

Yeah, we are, but I appreciate your clarification.
We seem to be arguing at cross purposes a little. If you are arguing against categories of sexuality and pointing out the immense complexity involved in the forming of individual sexual preferences, I couldn't agree more.
What gets my dander up are the homophobes and pious frauds who declare that God gave us a free will, so gays (or anybody that doesn't think their way, if can call it thinking) choose to prefer men, period. Therefore, all gays are evil and its okay to do everything to them from denying them a job to exterminating them.
Haven't changed my mind about Vidal, though, but thanks for the reading list. I'll use it.

[Link]

duefuss
Member

Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious - Brendan Gill
723 Posts
4/09

Posted - Oct 20 2009 : 10:19AM

This is a subject that flares tempers, that is often immune to reason on both sides. No news there.
On the other hand, as some have already said, this thread has also seen a lot of thoughtful commentary on the subject as well as graphically demonstrating how corrosive racism is.
Altogether, it has been a very worthwhile and informative discussion, and I would hate to see it locked for the presence of a few ill mannered angry people who think name calling bestows authority to their point of view.

[Link]

Tobias
Deactivated User

475 Posts
1/09

Posted - Oct 20 2009 : 1:16PM

Things always get kind of crazy after you go to sleep. Perhaps you could sleep less or hire an intern? Just an idea.

[Link]

Zaer
Deactivated User

249 Posts
10/07

Posted - Oct 20 2009 : 1:25PM

the unknown pervert wrote:
duefuss wrote:
Yes, regrettably, it has sailed. Did you not see it go?
If you have not, go listen to some of the slave narratives, unquestionably the most important work done by the WPA in the 30's(www.loc.gov). Compare what you hear there to what folks are denouncing here as racism.
I'm not for a moment saying 'it ain't bad 'cause others had it worse.' I am saying that people on this thread are splashing the word 'racism' around like they were talking about Medger Evers gunned down in his own driveway in front of his children or Emmett Till beaten to a grisly pulp for smiling at a white girl or Seth Concklin wrapped in chains and drowned in Indiana for trying to get a woman and her two babies to freedom.
THAT kind of racism is as foriegn to all of us as the Death Camps. And the people who endured it,most dead and gone, fought:learned to read when literacy could get them hanged, stood fire hoses and dogs and lynchings, so you and I could get past it all, so we could regret that it ever happened and live in a place that was as though it never did.
They suffered so we all would be judged 'not by the color of our skin, but by the strength of our character.'
What then would they think of people here seeing racism in some poor girl's fear of having to explain to her stupid family why she did a sex scene with a black guy?
What would they think of someone called a racist because she had sex with black girls,but not black men?
What even would they think of condemning a girl who refused to work with blacks, instead of pitying her, trying to forgive her, trying to show her that skin color means nothing?
They did NOT suffer and overcome so that you or anybody could resent what THEY went through: they suffered so that you could learn from what they went through to understand that racism is ignorance, that it is foolish.
Instead, I think they would be astonished as I am, disappointed, and perhaps even angry that racism is being kept alive as much by its victims as it is by the poor dumb bastards that still believe in it.
Click to expand
If I was any good at photoshopping things this post would consist of Martin Luther King's face imposed on the Captain Picard palm to the forehead photo.
It is perfectly appropriate that the most intelligent post in this whole F5 natural disaster of a thread is made by someone with the user name of duefuss.
Click to expand

tup, your attempt to use MLK to defend your racism is vile. As for duefuss, for him to try and use the memory of the immense incalculable suffering of Blacks, which was cause by whites, to make some argument concerning how Blacks should perceive the current situation is quite absurd.
Edited by - Zaer on 10/20/2009 1:26:32 PM

[Link]

ntfighter
Member

645 Posts
7/07

Posted - Oct 20 2009 : 3:40PM

duefuss wrote:
tritone wrote:
However, I do think that the actual US slaves should have been paid reparations. That ship has sailed, but it should have been done.
Click to expand
Yes, regrettably, it has sailed. Did you not see it go?
If you have not, go listen to some of the slave narratives, unquestionably the most important work done by the WPA in the 30's(www.loc.gov). Compare what you hear there to what folks are denouncing here as racism.
I'm not for a moment saying 'it ain't bad 'cause others had it worse.' I am saying that people on this thread are splashing the word 'racism' around like they were talking about Medger Evers gunned down in his own driveway in front of his children or Emmett Till beaten to a grisly pulp for smiling at a white girl or Seth Concklin wrapped in chains and drowned in Indiana for trying to get a woman and her two babies to freedom.
THAT kind of racism is as foriegn to all of us as the Death Camps. And the people who endured it,most dead and gone, fought:learned to read when literacy could get them hanged, stood fire hoses and dogs and lynchings, so you and I could get past it all, so we could regret that it ever happened and live in a place that was as though it never did.
They suffered so we all would be judged 'not by the color of our skin, but by the strength of our character.'
What then would they think of people here seeing racism in some poor girl's fear of having to explain to her stupid family why she did a sex scene with a black guy?
What would they think of someone called a racist because she had sex with black girls,but not black men?
What even would they think of condemning a girl who refused to work with blacks, instead of pitying her, trying to forgive her, trying to show her that skin color means nothing?
They did NOT suffer and overcome so that you or anybody could resent what THEY went through: they suffered so that you could learn from what they went through to understand that racism is ignorance, that it is foolish.
Instead, I think they would be astonished as I am, disappointed, and perhaps even angry that racism is being kept alive as much by its victims as it is by the poor dumb bastards that still believe in it.
Click to expand
This post is unbelievable. Your posts have all been offensive, but this one set a new mark. The sheer arrogance, the gall, the condescension. I can't control my anger enough right now to reply in a manner that won't cause me to be banned.
Edited by - ntfighter on 10/20/2009 3:43:21 PM

[Link]

BrazilianDude
Deactivated User

Minha Vaidade me deixou cansado
351 Posts
8/09

Posted - Oct 20 2009 : 4:10PM

what a disaster this thread has become, that's why stupid nonsensical threads such as this should always be locked before things get too ugly [o\|]
who are we kidding ? it doesn't take a genius to realize tobias just wanted to start shit, you can't expect to have a reasonable discussion while comparing interracial porn with rape, it's not just conceptually wrong ,it's downright insulting, this thread was doomed from the start.

Edited by - braziliandude on 10/20/2009 4:36:07 PM

[Link]

MrLongStiff
Deactivated User

87 Posts
7/09

Posted - Oct 20 2009 : 4:29PM

the unknown pervert wrote:
MrLongStiff wrote:
duefuss wrote:
Yes, regrettably, it has sailed. Did you not see it go?
If you have not, go listen to some of the slave narratives, unquestionably the most important work done by the WPA in the 30's(www.loc.gov). Compare what you hear there to what folks are denouncing here as racism.
I'm not for a moment saying 'it ain't bad 'cause others had it worse.' I am saying that people on this thread are splashing the word 'racism' around like they were talking about Medger Evers gunned down in his own driveway in front of his children or Emmett Till beaten to a grisly pulp for smiling at a white girl or Seth Concklin wrapped in chains and drowned in Indiana for trying to get a woman and her two babies to freedom.
THAT kind of racism is as foriegn to all of us as the Death Camps. And the people who endured it,most dead and gone, fought:learned to read when literacy could get them hanged, stood fire hoses and dogs and lynchings, so you and I could get past it all, so we could regret that it ever happened and live in a place that was as though it never did.
They suffered so we all would be judged 'not by the color of our skin, but by the strength of our character.'
What then would they think of people here seeing racism in some poor girl's fear of having to explain to her stupid family why she did a sex scene with a black guy?
What would they think of someone called a racist because she had sex with black girls,but not black men?
What even would they think of condemning a girl who refused to work with blacks, instead of pitying her, trying to forgive her, trying to show her that skin color means nothing?
They did NOT suffer and overcome so that you or anybody could resent what THEY went through: they suffered so that you could learn from what they went through to understand that racism is ignorance, that it is foolish.
Instead, I think they would be astonished as I am, disappointed, and perhaps even angry that racism is being kept alive as much by its victims as it is by the poor dumb bastards that still believe in it.
Click to expand
Hey Duffus, get the fuck out of here with your pseudo intellectual GARBAGE.
Your attempts to try and make excuses and seek an easy way out for these racist porn skanks has failed miserably.
NEVER EVER EVER try to intrude your white agenda ideas and attempt imagine what our Black ancestors who were brutally murdered by the hands of white racists think as a contrast comparison to the racist attitudes practiced by white porn girls in the hope of pardoning them from blame while bashing the Black porn fans who rightly pointed them out.
You show your own ignorance and high almighty attitude by even having the audacity to suggest that our murdered assertors would be ashamed of the Black porn fans on this board for pointing out the SAME Jim Crow, apartheid tactics in 2009 that these worthless porngirls are practicing in which is the same discrimination our ancestors suffered a hundred years ago.
The thing that IDIOTS like you and porn skank Hannah continually fail to realize is that discrimination based on race is RACISM. Our Black ancestors who were murdered by white went through this daily. Its people like YOU and Hannah that try their best to trivialize this current matter by comparing that to something more brutal as an attempt to pardon these racist porn girls but unluckily for you, your attempts are not working, WE SEE THROUGH YOUR BULLSHIT
Click to expand
If I was any good at photoshopping things this post would consist of Martin Luther King's face imposed on the Captain Picard palm to the forehead photo.
It is perfectly appropriate that the most intelligent post in this whole F5 natural disaster of a thread is made by someone with the user name of duefuss.
Click to expand

Here we go again!! rolls eyes

If these pathetic responses keeps up, we'll soon have leader of the KKK posting in this thread CLAIMING that Malcolm X would not be happy about us Black men pointing out the racial discrimination that these white porn actresses are practicing.
Plus it is perfectly appropriate that the most pathetic post in this whole F5 natural disaster of a thread is made by someone with the user name of duefuss.

Edited by - mrlongstiff on 10/20/2009 4:41:01 PM

[Link]

BYOB_Kenobi
Senior Member

“Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards.” - Kierkegaard
2684 Posts
8/09

Posted - Oct 20 2009 : 4:55PM

WOW (to past few pages)
Edited by - BYOB_Kenobi on 10/20/2009 11:56:25 PM

[Link]

killbillvol69

All-Star Member

^Lucy Pinder
18634 Posts
4/08

Posted - Oct 20 2009 : 5:58PM

As dumb or as smart as this argument is in different places in the thread, I think we're all forgetting that it's extremely likely that the porn stars would actually know a lot more about what's going on than we do.
So, what do they have to say?
Well, we've had Annette Schwarz come here and post, and she made it pretty damn clear that she was positive that this involves straight up racism, and not questions of 'preference' or what have you. We've had comments from Mariah Milano via freeones (Nimrod it would be nice to have a link for that BTW) who has said pretty much exactly the same thing. Here's Julian St. Jox [ invalid url ].
We've had Hannah West make the argument that it is simply a question of preference of skin tone on a partner, and nothing else whatsoever. Some of you agree, some don't. Well, without saying she's right or wrong, remember from other threads (and maybe in this one as well?) I've shown you all how to find out what ratio of non-black girls are not willing to work with black guys in the US porn industry: it's about 70%. Notice Julian gives the same ratio, so I'm not pulling this stuff out of my ass here.
So, is it really a simple case of 7 out of 10 girls in the biz preferring lighter skin tones as an aesthetic choice, and nothing else? Is it really the case that, for 7 out of every 10 girls, skin tone is so important in a person they're working with in a porn scene that there's absolutely no way they'll work with someone if their skin is darker than such-and-such? And it has nothing whatsoever to do with race (or ethnicity, or ancestry, or whatever term you want to use if you don't want to use the term 'race')? What do you suppose the likelihood of that would be?
Further, the point has been made (and it has been questioned a great deal) that working with a black MAN is different than working with a black WOMAN. Some here say it's ridiculous to say that. Well again, let's look at what the porn stars have to say. Both Roxy Deville and Stormy Daniels, as just two examples, have said many times that their family would never approve of them "doing IR", yet they've both done scenes with black women. Roxy even said explicitly, here on ADT, that her family wouldn't approve of her working with a black man, but are OK with her working with a black woman.
So, if there's no difference, then why is there a difference for these families? (Answer: because there is a difference.)
One can intellectually challenge any and all arguments being made here, but in the end we're talking about something that's real; it's really going on, in the US porn biz, right now. And unfortunately for some of you, what you're saying clashes with these realities.

[Link]

Tobias
Deactivated User

475 Posts
1/09

Posted - Oct 20 2009 : 6:34PM

KB,
It seems as though you're now trying to push the argument in one direction as opposed to moderate the discussion. Regardless of the woman's motivation for not having interracial sex, a majority of posters to this thread have been in support of her decision. The fact that a handful of very outspoken posters (Brazilian, Nimrod, etc.) assert racist motivations are behind any conduct they disagree with (including the creation of this thread) doesn't make those assertions fact. What is fact, however, is that we've established a complex set of needs/wants/desires go into a woman's desire to have or not have interracial sex. And, could we really have expected any other outcome? Women aren't like light switches, resting solely in an "on" or "off" position. They're human, with a myriad of shades of grey - just like men. At the end of the day, it's not all just about race nor is it just about categorizing people. These are things we've learned from this thread. So, don't let a few bad eggs lead you to lose your sense of fairness to hear out both sides.

[Link]

BrazilianDude
Deactivated User

Minha Vaidade me deixou cansado
351 Posts
8/09

Posted - Oct 20 2009 : 7:03PM

the question we should be asking ourselves is: WHY WOULD ANNETTE SCHWARZ LIE ?, not calling anyone a liar, far from me, but a dodger would have every reason to hide her true reasons to dodge, make up excuses and even go as far as to lie but a girl like annette schwarz, what reason would she have to lie ? if she says in most cases it's about racism she only proves my point.
and who cares anyway?, interracial fans don't like dodgers regardless of their reasons to dodge, knowing their reasons to dodge won't change the fact that they're dodgers.

Edited by - braziliandude on 10/20/2009 7:12:04 PM

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Tobias
Deactivated User

475 Posts
1/09

Posted - Oct 20 2009 : 7:12PM

Every time you use the phrase "dodger" Joe Torre cringes.

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the unknown pervert
Deactivated User

I'd like to stay but I've got a plane to catch.
3243 Posts
5/06

Posted - Oct 20 2009 : 8:06PM

Some people see racism in every Rorschach test card in the deck. You know next to nothing about me, what I believe, who my friends are, or anything else yet you can come up with a diagnosis of racism based on ? My belief that skin color should count for nothing in any circumstance? My belief that minorities today have the intelligence and capability to accomplish their life goals without the patronization of oppressor's guilt being dumped on them? I have to be the only racist in the world who quotes Sly & the Family Stone lyrics on a regular basis.
But, hey what do I know.
Sometimes I'm right, but I can be wrong
My own beliefs are in my song
The butcher, the baker, the drummer and then
Makes no difference what group I'm in
I am everyday people
Yeah, yeah
There is a blue one who can't accept the green one
For living with a fat one trying to be a skinny one
Different strokes for different folks
And so on, and so on and scooby-dooby-doo
Ooh, sha, sha
We got to live together
I am no better, and neither are you
We are the same, whatever we do
You love me, you hate me, you know me and then
You can't figure out the bag I'm in
I am everyday people
Yeah, yeah
There is a long hair that doesn't like the short hair
For being such a rich one that will not help the poor one
Different strokes for different folks
And so on and so on and scooby-dooby-doo
Ooh, sha, sha
We got to live together
There is a yellow one that won't accept the black one
That won't accept the red one that won't accept the white one
Different strokes for different folks
And so on, and so on and scooby-dooby-doo
Ooh, sha, sha
I am everyday people

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RectomRamington
Member

Everybody needs a little R&R
63 Posts
8/09

Posted - Oct 20 2009 : 8:06PM

Id love to know the stats for the % European chicks working in the stats who do I.R. compared to the American girls. I think America just has a problem. Cant live with em cant live without em. Americans are dumb people and this is why people think that. just fighting the inevitable, UNITY.

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Nimrod
Member

624 Posts
7/09

Posted - Oct 20 2009 : 8:22PM

Here is the link: http://board.freeones.com/showthread.php?t=278079
By the way 70 % is extremely high. I never knew it was that high but the more I think about it, it makes sense.
Edited by - Nimrod on 10/20/2009 10:12:48 PM

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Nimrod
Member

624 Posts
7/09

Posted - Oct 20 2009 : 8:32PM

I didn't know Stormy worked with black women. Who did she work with? Those families don't mind black women because some people don't consider "sex" between two women as actual sex. They think that because there is no "real" penetration, it's not really sex...the same way some people don't consider oral sex as actual sex.

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killbillvol69

All-Star Member

^Lucy Pinder
18634 Posts
4/08

Posted - Oct 20 2009 : 11:49PM

Tobias: while I'm a moderator, I'm also a member, and I have never shied away from sharing my opinion. I like to think that I can be both. Though I'll freely admit it's a fine line to walk, and I have stepped too far to both sides on many occasions.
Having said that, again looking at what you've said here, it's a complex set of reasons and blah blah blah, this is the kind of thing I was talking about in my post. Yours is a hypothetical, logical, philosophical argument, but it doesn't gel with what's really going on, and what the stars are really saying.
And I certainly haven't been influenced in any way by any of the bad eggs of whom you speak. The vast majority of posts in this thread, from all sorts of people, have only served to annoy me.

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killbillvol69

All-Star Member

^Lucy Pinder
18634 Posts
4/08

Posted - Oct 20 2009 : 11:55PM

Dee in Predator. Maybe others I dunno.

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Tobias
Deactivated User

475 Posts
1/09

Posted - Oct 21 2009 : 12:27AM

I can see that.

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supa_dupa09
Deactivated User

118 Posts
6/09

Posted - Oct 21 2009 : 5:32AM

(Got it from another forum, I dont know if thats allowed. Is it, can we post from other forums?)
This guy right here has not only the right idea, but shows
at least he knows whats going on, I thought I was the only one. It was a response to alexis texas b.s. thats still going on, but I cant believe no one else thought about it:
braziliannegro wrote:
"The only way to punch back at racism by these porn agencies who do
it, is if there arent already to have a black talent agency to hire girls of all
races to do IR and girls of all races to not do IR, give them a taste of their
own medicine. If there isnt a black talent agency already they should hire a
few whitegirls of their own that wouldnt mind doing only black guys onscreen and only have their agent get them IR gigs. And with the black and latina girls get more black and latina girls that dont do whiteguys. This si the only way in the porn industry that you are going to fight the real racism in porn, is to go tit fot tat. Because alot of these porn agencies obviously have somethin against black men if they allow a black girl to only do IR, an indian girl to only do IR with whiteguys, asian girls to only do IR with whiteguys, and even latinas to only do IR with whiteguys, but not a whitegirl to only do IR with black guys, it also shows the power is in their hands. I dont believe for on minute that there is no whitegirl out there that wouldnt MORE than mind being an IR only pornstar. I BELIEVE THAT THERE IS THE REVERSE ALEXIS TEXAS OUT THERE! The porn world just dont want her. And its up to the black men in porn to go get her, and if the black men in porn is tired of the racism, then like I said if there isnt already a black porn agency, they need to go get one and punch back. Even though we already have black girls that dont or havent done whiteguys like the famous FLAME and big booty latina Darlene, to me thats enough, but I guess understandably others would probably like to see racism in porn get hit back with a HOT ASS whitegirl that only does black guys."
Racism in porn is rarely, rarely with the girls, I think once what everybody else is failing to realize is that there have been pornstars that have mentioned their agencies before when it comes to IR. I tried to nail it in here, but I will let someone else do it.

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Aplus
Senior Member

1431 Posts
5/05

Posted - Oct 21 2009 : 5:47AM

I just don't believe that is very realistic Supa. Nor do I again believe in fighting discrimination and racism with more of the same. Kind of defeats the purpose actually IMO.

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BrazilianDude
Deactivated User

Minha Vaidade me deixou cansado
351 Posts
8/09

Posted - Oct 21 2009 : 6:53AM

just a comment in passing, about that brazilian whatever, it's not me, i really don't care for A.T. far from being my type.
Edited by - braziliandude on 10/21/2009 7:04:13 AM

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Nimrod
Member

624 Posts
7/09

Posted - Oct 21 2009 : 9:44AM

Even though I think Dee is mixed (must have some black in her) and should be considered black by the US standards, she is considered in the porn business as hispanic/latino. I know the term latino can also apply to dark black men from South America too. Dee is kinda like Ramon who girls like Hannah West and Rachel Roxx didn't see as a black men. Don't get me wrong, I view light skinned blacks and biracials as black but I doubt her co stars view her as a black woman.

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Bluto
Deactivated User

511 Posts
3/09

Posted - Oct 21 2009 : 3:19PM

You and your butt buddy will eventually figure it out.
Pots and pans yo man!

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killbillvol69

All-Star Member

^Lucy Pinder
18634 Posts
4/08

Posted - Oct 21 2009 : 4:02PM

Thank you Nimrod for clearing it up for all of us. And your point was?
Just leave my comment be, man. No more to say. Nothing of what I've said becomes any more or less true, so why nitpick?
I only answered your question to be nice anyway, it's not like it was a particularly good request. I mean I made a post that discussed all sorts of pertinent points to this discussion, and all you can come up with is "who did Stormy work with?"
Lame.
How about Devon Michaels? Stormy worked with her in Three Wishes. She's gotta be half-black too, so if you smash her together with Dee, that makes one hole black girl, right? There. Done. ;)

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Hannah Westxxx
Member

The classy side of shameless
506 Posts
8/07

Posted - Oct 21 2009 : 4:40PM

I'd like to bring one other point to the table..
Something to consider:
Why is it that white men have a problem with white girls having sex with black men?
Okay.. here's something some of you might not see first hand everyday, but this is what I know..
as a white girl, if you have sex with a black man, it seems to dim your shine to the white boys..
True story
One of the first questions I am ever asked in a relationship is
"Have you ever been with a black guy?"
I say "No"
the response is always a sigh of relief and "good."
Some people may not openly state that they are glad I don't do IR but let me make it very clear that I get very graphic emails stating they they are indeed glad I don't do IR because black men are disgusting
and for the record, I don't respond..
SO it appears that not only are black men a little insecure about white girls not having sex with them based off a preference of skin tone..
White men are also insecure about measuring up after a black man
"once you go black you don't go back" haven't we all heard this?
Is this because the experience is THAT enjoyable
or
is it because white men don't want you anymore?
or at least that's the only thing I can figure. If I had 10 cents for everytime a white man was greatful that I am not interested in IR.. I'd be one rich bitch right now..
I'm interested on what you all have to say about this.. because as we get pressured to do IR.. behind the scenes we are praised for NOT doing it..
I think it has to do with the sterotype that black cocks are huge.. Maybe white guys are intimiadated more by this than what they let on.. It's never been said "oh their cocks are so huge how could I ever please you.." BUT that's what I believe it boils down to..
(and I happen to believe this sterotype esp in the sense of porn: IR exists primaryly to showcase massive black cocks and tiny white girls blah blah blah.. and most of the IR porn you watch has more racial slurs than an alabama town hall meeting, so don't call me crazy)
White men SEEMINGLY like to preserve white girls and I know plenty of people who refuse to have have sex with anyone who has had sex with a black man.. THAT IS DEF RACSIST to the MAX! And we can't say I fall in this box.. had sex with black girls.. had sex with ramon.. had sex with Anette who has def had sex with black guys.. had sex with a lot of IR performers and for me it def doesn't dim the shine..
but I wanna know why it's like that for others..
My bf for instance finds it okay that he had sex with black girls but finds it a releif that I haven't had sex with a black guy.. why??? This whole damn issue is biased as fuck.
I am so sickened with it that I had to change the history channel the other night because they started talking about race wars..
so instead I'll just dabble and try to draw some other conclusions...
damned if you do, damned if you don't
so pin this to the disection table please

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Tobias
Deactivated User

475 Posts
1/09

Posted - Oct 21 2009 : 4:51PM

Hannah,
Actually, it's only a small fraction of white guys who take issue with interracial sex - mostly the lunatic right wing fringe. I mean, seriously, you'd have to be a whack job not to appreciate the interracial work Jenna Haze or Monique Alexander have been doing. What most decent guys would protest against, however, is having women pressured into doing something they don't want to do in the first place. Let her arrive at her own decision minus the taunting that "you're a racist unless you do interracial."

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kaiser1one
Member

Dark Avatar
142 Posts
10/07

Posted - Oct 21 2009 : 4:51PM

I watched the documentary Inter-racial Dating in America. I bought the DVD a few weeks after it came out.
One of the groups they talked to were a group of white guys. One of the guys said, "When you see a black guy with an average or not so great looking white chick it's no big deal, but when you see them with a hot white chick it's like "Aw your stealing our women!"."
It's an interesting watch as it covers blacks, whites, and inter-racial couples.
I honestly couldn't tell you why white guys are like that.
One of my old friend's broke up with his gf a few years back and she started dating a black guy. While telling me about it he was like, "I'm not racist or anything but come on! A black guy!?"
I just dunno why ppl think this way.

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pokerman
Member

J lo booty
404 Posts
4/09

Posted - Oct 21 2009 : 4:55PM

Ramon from monsters off cock is down as black/latino on IAFD.
Anyone that has worked with him is down as an IR scene.
http://www.iafd.com/person.rme/perfid=ramontpe/gender=m/ramon.htm

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Tobias
Deactivated User

475 Posts
1/09

Posted - Oct 21 2009 : 5:04PM

Maybe this is a bigger issue in the South, where you have a higher percentage of the population that is black. Where I live (supposedly one of the most "liberal" regions in the U.S.), you can go weeks without seeing a black male/white female couple. On the other hand, you can throw a brick out the window and hit a white male/asian female couple 50% of the time.

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MrLongStiff
Deactivated User

87 Posts
7/09

Posted - Oct 21 2009 : 5:06PM

YES, those White guys FEAR that they wont measure up after a White girl has been with a Blackman. It’s called FEAR of the BIG BLACK DICK.
Racism is driven by FEAR.
Insecurity is driven by FEAR
Jealousy is driven by FEAR
Hate is driven by FEAR
Those racist White guys sending porn girls stupid emails, plus racist porn agents and White boyfriends of pornstars all suffer from the above FEAR of the BIG BLACK DICK taking away their White girls.

YES, according to a lot of White girls. Just speak to all the White girls you know in the industry who've done at least 5 - 10 IR scenes especially with LEXINGTON STEELE, JUSTIN SLAYER, RICO STRONG, RICHARD MAN and PRICE YAHSHUA.
Speak to Jenna Haze, Belladonna, Annette Schwarz, Tori Black, Kelly Divine, Gianna etc, they'll tell you.
Check out an extremely popular IR scene starring 'Justin Slayer' and 'Angel Dark' in the movie called 'Just Fuckin' (2004). It's probably the best sex scene ever in the history of porn. After watching that clip, a lot of folks had to light up a cigarette.

Edited by - mrlongstiff on 10/21/2009 6:53:28 PM

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Tobias
Deactivated User

475 Posts
1/09

Posted - Oct 21 2009 : 5:19PM

Was there ever any question that Ramon was black? Simply because a guy has a Latin name, was born in Latin America or speaks Spanish doesn't do away with his African ancestry. To say otherwise is nonsensical.
Also, it's interesting to note that when you check Ramon's scene pairings, you find that he's worked with 100+ white women, 7 asian women, and only 2 black women (Alicia Tyler and Giselle Capri). If people are going to attack white female performers for not working with black men, then why don't they also attack black male performers for not working with black women? That seems like a double standard and not the least bit hypocritical.

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pokerman
Member

J lo booty
404 Posts
4/09

Posted - Oct 21 2009 : 5:40PM

Tobias wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Ramon from monsters off cock is down as black/latino on IAFD.
Anyone that has worked with him is down as an IR scene.
http://www.iafd.com/person.rme/perfid=ramontpe/gender=m/ramon.htm
Click to expand
Was there ever any question that Ramon was black? Simply because a guy has a Latin name, was born in Latin America or speaks Spanish doesn't do away with his African ancestry. To say otherwise is nonsensical.
Also, it's interesting to note that when you check Ramon's scene pairings, you find that he's worked with 100+ white women, 7 asian women, and only 2 black women (Alicia Tyler and Giselle Capri). If people are going to attack white female performers for not working with black men, then why don't they also attack black male performers for not working with black women? That seems like a double standard and not the least bit hypocritical.
Click to expand

I don't know but Nimrod was on about Kristina Rose not doing IR on another thread.
Well then there goes the argument that Kristina Rose and Hannah West haven't done IR.
[ invalid url ]

Edited by - pokerman on 10/21/2009 5:42:45 PM

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MrLongStiff
Deactivated User

87 Posts
7/09

Posted - Oct 21 2009 : 5:40PM

.
Edited by - mrlongstiff on 10/21/2009 5:40:53 PM

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lack100
Deactivated User

139 Posts
8/09

Posted - Oct 21 2009 : 5:43PM

Its because unlike other races we black men are viewed as unhuman like by a lot. You got white, asian, latino, and those all sound find to an degree. The color black in general is viewed as evil, devil like. 666..type shit. This is why blacks are put on a fetish list. we are considered different. Thats why her bf and others hate when their girls have been with us. You dont hear to many black women saying they get hate messages from black men because we know they are gonna fuck white dudes, they cant get away with the "im not attracted to white boys" claim.
I think this why girls refuse scenes with black men. If the only race a lot of girls are never attracted to but all the others are always fine. Porn women who dodge view blacks as unhuman like. You just dont know it.
There are plenty of girls who find other races just as disgusting as black men. Thats why they arent going to sleep with just any white,asian,cuban,mexican ect.. like porn girls do.

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