Are black females turning away from Black porn? (page 7)

Author	Post
misspornUSA Senior Member I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13	Posted - Aug 9 2015 : 7:48PM Are you familiar with the term "confirmation bias"? [Link]
Interracial4Life Deactivated User 329 Posts 3/15	Posted - Aug 9 2015 : 8:40PM sethrob882 wrote: fredgee wrote: ^^ Word is Skin Diamond is only doing GG so something changed her idea of working with wm. If money loser and least selling are not synonymous BM/BF would be more common...The industry has to be pushing a racial agenda the race theme titles, lack of Black women working with Black men and wm/bf still being produced when it is the worst selling genre of all is proof of it even if some people grin and bear it. Click to expand Skin diamond has a boyfriend I believe that is the reason she is only doing Girl Girl plus she also worked with black men does that mean she changed her mind about them also?where is the the proof that wm/bf is the worst selling genre you and interracial4life have yet to show hard evidence or proof that show that wm/bf is the worst selling genre. Click to expand Ok sethrob882 since you want some proof why WM/BF movies don't sell well, and they don't get made. Marie Luv said it best why WM/BF doesn't sell I think that is a easy cop out. So they're trying to say that there is no market for BW/WM IR scenes? That is just some BS. If that was the fact then they wouldn't shoot it at all. They just don't want to produce that type of product or put the money needed to promote it so it can do well. Click to expand Like she said it directors or companies don't really care for it. How many WM/BF movies do Jules Jordan, Evil Angels, Elegent, WCP, and Hard X have...less then you think. But let not forget that most IR buyer are white men too so if BM/WF is selling then the more will be made, Supply and Demand Edited by - Interracial4Life on 8/9/2015 8:43:13 PM [Link]
sethrob882 Member 306 Posts 4/15	Posted - Aug 9 2015 : 11:37PM ^ That quote is 6 years old, and again I never said wm/bf is a top seller or that it out sells BM/WF you however said that wm/bf is the worst selling genre and you've still yet to prove that, I acknowledged that it isn't mass produced because it isn't but bangbros,dogfart and reality kings all cater to the genre and provide weekly to monthly updates so its still produced and IMO if the genre were mass produced I think that there would be a few wm/bf DVDs in the top 50 on a consistent basis in fact there is one in the top 50 right now under price searches white out is at no.16. [Link]
IWatchUSmash Deactivated User ooh shit she bouncing!! 638 Posts 1/14	Posted - Aug 10 2015 : 12:42AM What is evident is with black porn being pushed to the bottom of the barrel by several companies black women have now been forced into working with random dudes right from the jump and don't have the same "options" as their White, Latin and Asian counterparts. So if you look at a new black porn starlets scene list in the current climate you'll find she's done several scenes with Latin and White dudes and not a single black scene is in sight. The Florida studios in particular appear to match black women with ANYONE but a black man. So to me it's clear there is an agenda at play but what makes it even worse is some of these black women are helping this agenda!!..Anya Ivy, Cassidy Banks, Jezebel Yassir, Ava Sanchez, Jaye Austin, Ajaa XXX, Noe Milk etc shun working with black males and so it merely justifies these studios actions where black porn is concerned. So much so that even veterans like Diamond Jackson and Codi Bryant stopped doing black porn too. To be honest i used to think black women had it the worst in the porn industry but now my views have changed. Black men are just marginalized year after year by every single race of women in the industry to the point where some unknown Latin or Asian guy can work with the cream of the female talent in the industry while a legend who's won three AVN awards such as Lex would be rejected by the same group of women. Including those from a similar background to him SMH. [Link]

misspornUSA Senior Member I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13	Posted - Aug 10 2015 : 12:55AM ^You make a good point in your last paragraph. Black women may have a hard time getting work in the industry, but at least they are not collectively segregated the way black men are. [Link]
research1 Deactivated User 156 Posts 7/15	Posted - Aug 10 2015 : 2:25AM fredgee wrote: Another poster mentioned wm didn't affect Skin Diamond career I just pointed out she is reportedly doing GG only now..I don't have the sales stats I relied on information from a very reliable source on the board..it has been stated repeatedly wm/bf is the worst selling genre of all if there is any truth to that why is it produced as much as it is..that is the point. Click to expand That's such ridiculous b.s. You certainly have an axe to grind with WM or non-Black men fucking BW. In case you hadn't noticed, there's a lot higher demand for WM/BF porn in the last 2 years which is why so much more of it is being produced. More BF/WM porn being produced means more work for BW= more BW getting into the industry and more BM/BW porn. In case you guys don't believe me...there's more BM/BW movies out in 2015 compared to 2014 and 2014 was a slight increase over 2013. So this b.s. about BM/BW porn not being made is totally wrong. [Link]
Curtom Deactivated User 293 Posts 8/14	Posted - Aug 10 2015 : 5:15AM IWatchUSmash wrote: What is evident is with black porn being pushed to the bottom of the barrel by several companies black women have now been forced into working with random dudes right from the jump and don't have the same "options" as their White, Latin and Asian counterparts. So if you look at a new black porn starlets scene list in the current climate you'll find she's done several scenes with Latin and White dudes and not a single black scene is in sight. The Florida studios in particular appear to match black women with ANYONE but a black man. So to me it's clear there is an agenda at play but what makes it even worse is some of these black women are helping this agenda!!..Anya Ivy, Cassidy Banks, Jezebel Yassir, Ava Sanchez, Jaye Austin, Ajaa XXX, Noe Milk etc shun working with black males and so it merely justifies these studios actions where black porn is concerned. So much so that even veterans like Diamond Jackson and Codi Bryant stopped doing black porn too. To be honest i used to think black women had it the worst in the porn industry but now my views have changed. Black men are just marginalized year after year by every single race of women in the industry to the point where some unknown Latin or Asian guy can work with the cream of the female talent in the industry while a legend who's won three AVN awards such as Lex would be rejected by the same group of women. Including those from a similar background to him SMH. Click to expand You hit the nail on the damn head right here. I can't get over the fact that 20+ year veterans like Lex and Sean Michaels get rejected by some novice white/black/latina/asian woman so she can work with some novice white/latino/asian dude. In no other industry/profession can a novice be granted that much power and be that bold about it. The bargaining power should rest squarely with those that have the most knowledge and experience of the said profession/industry. I find it uncanny that black men get rejected regularly year by latina/asian/white/black females but their has yet been one of those races of women that reject working with white/latin men. Edited by - Curtom on 8/10/2015 5:19:24 AM Edited by - Curtom on 8/10/2015 5:19:45 AM Edited by - Curtom on 8/10/2015 5:23:21 AM [Link]
murdock Member I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06	Posted - Aug 10 2015 : 11:45AM Curtom wrote: You hit the nail on the damn head right here. I can't get over the fact that 20+ year veterans like Lex and Sean Michaels get rejected by some novice white/black/latina/asian woman so she can work with some novice white/latino/asian dude. Click to expand If this hypothetical woman refused to work with Lex or Sean simply because they were black, then I can see that being an issue, but I can't really see how you or anyone else would know that with any certainty. "Seniority" is a double edged sword in porn. Sure it means you have experience which is good, but it also means you're getting old. If Randy West's old ass was still in front of the camera should he get his pick of the litter simply because he's been around since The Great Flood? No, of course not, that would be dumb. In no other industry/profession can a novice be granted that much power and be that bold about it. The bargaining power should rest squarely with those that have the most knowledge and experience of the said profession/industry. Click to expand Well I think you're missing the larger issue with where the power lies, and that is with women for the most part. The majority of of the porn buying public is much more concerned with the female talent on camera than the men, and as long as that trend continues the female performers will wield more power than men. I find it uncanny that black men get rejected regularly year by latina/asian/white/black females but their has yet been one of those races of women that reject working with white/latin men. Click to expand I can't imagine that you can actually substantiate this claim with facts. [Link]
Curtom Deactivated User 293 Posts 8/14	Posted - Aug 10 2015 : 12:07PM murdock wrote: Curtom wrote: You hit the nail on the damn head right here. I can't get over the fact that 20+ year veterans like Lex and Sean Michaels get rejected by some novice white/black/latina/asian woman so she can work with some novice white/latino/asian dude. Click to expand If this hypothetical woman refused to work with Lex or Sean simply because they were black, then I can see that being an issue, but I can't really see how you or anyone else would know that with any certainty. "Seniority" is a double edged sword in porn. Sure it means you have experience which is good, but it also means you're getting old. If Randy West's old ass was still in front of the camera should he get his pick of the litter simply because he's been around since The Great Flood? No, of course not, that would be dumb. In no other industry/profession can a novice be granted that much power and be that bold about it. The bargaining power should rest squarely with those that have the most knowledge and experience of the said profession/industry. Click to expand Well I think you're missing the larger issue with where the power lies, and that is with women for the most part. The majority of of the porn buying public is much more concerned with the female talent on camera than the men, and as long as that trend continues the female performers will wield more power than men. I find it uncanny that black men get rejected regularly year by latina/asian/white/black females but their has yet been one of those races of women that reject working with white/latin men. Click to expand I can't imagine that you can actually substantiate this claim with facts. Click to expand Let me clarify, there has yet to been to my knowledge, a black/white/asian/latina female pornstar who has refused to with all of one or more races. In other words no asian/black/white/latina women to my knowledge as ever publicly said she would NEVER work with ALL white male performers. Have you? That is almost unreal since if the argument that they are making is that it is about 'attraction' then what does that tell us about those girls and wider society. Not all asian/white/latina/black females in society are attracted to white men, so how come not one single one of those said women make it into porn and thus refuse to work with white male performers? Does porn magically only attract asian/latin/black/white women who are not attracted to black men but not white men? That's statistically very unlikely. I'm no conspiracy theorist but something else is going on here. Edited by - Curtom on 8/10/2015 12:14:47 PM [Link]
misspornUSA Senior Member I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13	Posted - Aug 10 2015 : 12:28PM ^Those pornstars are generally just following a business model that was suggested to them by their agent, by a fellow pornstar, or followed by a pornstar whose success they wish to emulate. [Link]
fredgee Deactivated User 350 Posts 12/13	Posted - Aug 10 2015 : 12:57PM We need the sales stats if wm/bf is the worst selling genre then something sinister is going on in the porn industry. It would explain why Black women are not working as much as the demand is there for them. [Link]
Alzharhok Senior Member 1481 Posts 6/10	Posted - Aug 10 2015 : 1:40PM ^ Lowest selling genre in all of porn? No chance. Even if you just mean least popular in terms of any possible different racial pairing the answer is still almost certainly no. Too many still updating sites dedicated to that particular pairing for that to be possible. I follow a ton of black pornstars/cam girls and I have heard plenty of them go into detail about how whether they like it or not, that a large percentage sometimes even a majority of their fans and paying customers are white males. It's not as popular as BM/WF of course, but still a good amount of people do want to watch black girls get fucked by white guys on camera. Not really sure what is so hard to get about that. Edited by - Alzharhok on 8/10/2015 1:41:56 PM [Link]
fredgee Deactivated User 350 Posts 12/13	Posted - Aug 10 2015 : 1:44PM ^ That is your opinion but the whole debate is just opinions thats why facts are needed. Imagine if it is true wm/bf is the worst selling genre in the industry but white males are still with Black women in every scene...that is a very troubling image. [Link]
Billdude Member 60 Posts 6/15	Posted - Aug 10 2015 : 2:50PM Buttcracker wrote: im a latina guy and thought i would give my 2 cents . watching latina on latina porn is just normal and boring to my eyes because it feels like me and my girl fucking. interracial on the other hand, (white/black, latina/black, asian/white/black) etc gets me going. My point is porn is my go too place for difference...something that defies my norms, hence interracial. Click to expand Why does only Black IR get you going? Why not watch White/Latino or White/Asian or even Asian/Latino (there's some AM/LF and LM/AF porn out there) if you need some diversity. [Link]

murdock Member I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06	Posted - Aug 10 2015 : 3:24PM I find it interesting that the more specific the racial preferences are of a particular porn viewer, the less tolerant they generally seem to be of performers' racial preferences. The more someone complains or takes offense to a performer being selective about the race of their on screen performers, the more likely it is that they themselves are very selective about the race of the performers they view. [Link]
Curtom Deactivated User 293 Posts 8/14	Posted - Aug 10 2015 : 3:33PM murdock wrote: I find it interesting that the more specific the racial preferences are of a particular porn viewer, the less tolerant they generally seem to be of performers' racial preferences. The more someone complains or takes offense to a performer being selective about the race of their on screen performers, the more likely it is that they themselves are very selective about the race of the performers they view. Click to expand You didn't respond to comment. [Link]
murdock Member I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06	Posted - Aug 10 2015 : 6:28PM ^ Not sure what you're getting at, but no that was not a direct response to your comment. If you're wondering why I didn't post a direct response to it, I didn't think one was warranted. [Link]
Mass Facialties Deactivated User "Facialized Vol. 7" 2021 AVN Awards Winner: Best Oral Movie 9308 Posts 9/13	Posted - Aug 11 2015 : 12:25AM murdock wrote: I find it interesting that the more specific the racial preferences are of a particular porn viewer, the less tolerant they generally seem to be of performers' racial preferences. The more someone complains or takes offense to a performer being selective about the race of their on screen performers, the more likely it is that they themselves are very selective about the race of the performers they view. Click to expand Good point. To expand on that, I've always found it to be a great irony when often in these IR debates, it's those who prefer (favor) black male talent who try to implore everyone else that a performer's skin color shouldn't matter. [Link]
research1 Deactivated User 156 Posts 7/15	Posted - Aug 11 2015 : 12:31AM Mass Facialties wrote: murdock wrote: I find it interesting that the more specific the racial preferences are of a particular porn viewer, the less tolerant they generally seem to be of performers' racial preferences. The more someone complains or takes offense to a performer being selective about the race of their on screen performers, the more likely it is that they themselves are very selective about the race of the performers they view. Click to expand Good point. To expand on that, I've always found it to be a great irony when often in these IR debates, it's those who prefer (favor) black male talent who try to implore everyone else that a performer's skin color shouldn't matter. Click to expand Hilarious and true. I'd also like to add the ones who claim that there's nothing gay about cuckold porn and it's just a fetish...often turn out to be the ones who praise cuckold stuff in their posts. Oh sure, it's a fetish alright...a gay fetish hahaha. [Link]
misspornUSA Senior Member I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13	Posted - Aug 11 2015 : 12:40AM Mass Facialties wrote: murdock wrote: I find it interesting that the more specific the racial preferences are of a particular porn viewer, the less tolerant they generally seem to be of performers' racial preferences. The more someone complains or takes offense to a performer being selective about the race of their on screen performers, the more likely it is that they themselves are very selective about the race of the performers they view. Click to expand Good point. To expand on that, I've always found it to be a great irony when often in these IR debates, it's those who prefer (favor) black male talent who try to implore everyone else that a performer's skin color shouldn't matter. Click to expand You believe that what Curtom described is generally an issue of the racial preferences of individual pornstars rather than a business matter? [Link]
misspornUSA Senior Member I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13	Posted - Aug 11 2015 : 1:02AM Mass Facialties wrote: To expand on that, I've always found it to be a great irony when often in these IR debates, it's those who prefer (favor) black male talent who try to implore everyone else that a performer's skin color shouldn't matter. Click to expand That some of us prefer black male performers does not mean that we do not view them as men like other men, and therefore should not call on the industry to treat men of all races equally insofar as race is concerned. Edited by - misspornUSA on 8/11/2015 1:07:00 AM [Link]
Mass Facialties Deactivated User "Facialized Vol. 7" 2021 AVN Awards Winner: Best Oral Movie 9308 Posts 9/13	Posted - Aug 11 2015 : 1:32AM ^ Unfortunately, that won't happen, so long as the act of a black man having sex with a white woman is viewed as such a big deal that we have to give it its own category (IR) instead of simply callling it what it is, a B/G scene. [Link]
murdock Member I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06	Posted - Aug 11 2015 : 2:04AM Mass Facialties wrote: Good point. To expand on that, I've always found it to be a great irony when often in these IR debates, it's those who prefer (favor) black male talent who try to implore everyone else that a performer's skin color shouldn't matter. Click to expand Yeah, it astounds me how big the disconnect is with some people with regards to their preferences and how how that affects the porn business. They demand racially categorized porn, and complain that performers are racially categorized, and somehow can't see the connection between the two. Many are more than willing to point their fingers at the industry, and say "That's racist" but it is verboten to ask, "Why do you suppose it is that the industry does these racist things?" It would be like people demanding more nicotine in cigarettes, and then complaining that "Big Tobacco" is making cigarettes too addictive. [Link]
research1 Deactivated User 156 Posts 7/15	Posted - Aug 11 2015 : 2:59AM Mass Facialties wrote: ^ Unfortunately, that won't happen, so long as the act of a black man having sex with a white woman is viewed as such a big deal that we have to give it its own category (IR) instead of simply callling it what it is, a B/G scene. Click to expand I'll put in a little defense for IR as a category here: It's a lot easier for viewers to sort out what combination they want to see. Data18.com allows you to match male/female ethnic categories to suit the viewer. I understand that isn't important to some people, but it is to a lot of people. I understand that you're referring to the tiresome and weird "freak show" theme that is forced on IR porn though. That is something I'd wish would go away as well. [Link]

Curtom Deactivated User 293 Posts 8/14	Posted - Aug 11 2015 : 5:50AM murdock wrote: Mass Facialties wrote: Good point. To expand on that, I've always found it to be a great irony when often in these IR debates, it's those who prefer (favor) black male talent who try to implore everyone else that a performer's skin color shouldn't matter. Click to expand Yeah, it astounds me how big the disconnect is with some people with regards to their preferences and how how that affects the porn business. They demand racially categorized porn, and complain that performers are racially categorized, and somehow can't see the connection between the two. Many are more than willing to point their fingers at the industry, and say "That's racist" but it is verboten to ask, "Why do you suppose it is that the industry does these racist things?" It would be like people demanding more nicotine in cigarettes, and then complaining that "Big Tobacco" is making cigarettes too addictive. Click to expand I have no problem with the labelling of porn by race. That's purely marketing. It's more convenient for the consumer. [Link]
shalalin Senior Member 1741 Posts 11/07	Posted - Aug 11 2015 : 10:15AM murdock wrote: I find it interesting that the more specific the racial preferences are of a particular porn viewer, the less tolerant they generally seem to be of performers' racial preferences. The more someone complains or takes offense to a performer being selective about the race of their on screen performers, the more likely it is that they themselves are very selective about the race of the performers they view. Click to expand I don't think it's tied to race specifically though - certain sections of the "no anal no watch" crowd are just as intolerant. And the highlight of any membership site comment section is the repetitive whining by both the "feet must always be bare" and the "shoes must always stay on" fetishists, especially when they start downvoting each other. Tunnel vision breeds intolerance, and there's plenty of that out there in porn fandom. The only difference with the race intolerants is that they've deluded themselves into thinking that they're advocates for great societal change, not just for different porn. Edited by - shalalin on 8/11/2015 10:17:09 AM [Link]
fredgee Deactivated User 350 Posts 12/13	Posted - Aug 11 2015 : 11:52AM If it is true wm/bf is the least selling genre but every time a Black woman works it is with a white male something sinister is going on in the industry. The excuses about race categorization as marketing, business fly out the window because it does not sell as well as other genres. Even if wm/bf is not the least selling but ranks near the bottom it is still a race agenda because that is the only way Black women work . Good news is more people are getting into the business change is coming. [Link]
murdock Member I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06	Posted - Aug 11 2015 : 12:28PM ^ Are you familiar with circular reasoning? [Link]
fredgee Deactivated User 350 Posts 12/13	Posted - Aug 11 2015 : 12:50PM ^ I am familiar with it that is why facts are needed...numbers don't lie. [Link]
murdock Member I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06	Posted - Aug 11 2015 : 12:51PM shalalin wrote: I don't think it's tied to race specifically though - certain sections of the "no anal no watch" crowd are just as intolerant. And the highlight of any membership site comment section is the repetitive whining by both the "feet must always be bare" and the "shoes must always stay on" fetishists, especially when they start downvoting each other. Tunnel vision breeds intolerance, and there's plenty of that out there in porn fandom. The only difference with the race intolerants is that they've deluded themselves into thinking that they're advocates for great societal change, not just for different porn. Edited by - shalalin on 8/11/2015 10:17:09 AM Click to expand Well yes, you hit on a point that I've made before and that probably 95% of the threads on here (outside of the "Can anyone identify the girl in this picture/tubelink that violates the forum policy?" threads) boil down to, "I like ____ and they need to make more ____ and if you don't like ____ you should be more tolerant." regardless of whatever social justice they try to camouflage it with. There will always be some irony and hypocrisy when someone is screaming for more tolerance on an issue, all while they're actually being less tolerant regarding that issue, but what makes the racism stuff so interesting to me is in that case, the hypocrites are actually right in the big scheme of things, they are just a little myopic when it comes to their own intolerance. [Link]
murdock Member I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06	Posted - Aug 11 2015 : 12:59PM fredgee wrote: ^ I am familiar with it that is why facts are needed...numbers don't lie. Click to expand You clearly think that something nefarious is going on in the industry because this genre that you like isn't represented properly in your mind, and you believe that certain genre isn't represented properly because something nefarious is going on in the industry. That's textbook circular reasoning. I don't think it matters how many facts are brought to the table, none of them will change your mind on the subject. If sales of WM/BF are higher than you expect, would it change your mind? If they are lower than you expect would it change your mind? If they are exactly what you expect would it change your mind? What fact would be needed to make you go "Oh, well if that's the case I guess everything is fine." because I don't believe such a scenario exists. [Link]
sethrob882 Member 306 Posts 4/15	Posted - Aug 11 2015 : 1:31PM fredgee wrote: If it is true wm/bf is the least selling genre but every time a Black woman works it is with a white male something sinister is going on in the industry. The excuses about race categorization as marketing, business fly out the window because it does not sell as well as other genres. Even if wm/bf is not the least selling but ranks near the bottom it is still a race agenda because that is the only way Black women work . Good news is more people are getting into the business change is coming. Click to expand The problem with your argument is you've yet to prove it you don't have statistical proof that wm/bf is the lowest selling or even that it ranks near the bottom, you and interracial4life haven't backed your claims up you just continue to repeat the same thing [Link]
fredgee Deactivated User 350 Posts 12/13	Posted - Aug 11 2015 : 2:24PM murdock wrote: fredgee wrote: ^ I am familiar with it that is why facts are needed...numbers don't lie. Click to expand You clearly think that something nefarious is going on in the industry because this genre that you like isn't represented properly in your mind, and you believe that certain genre isn't represented properly because something nefarious is going on in the industry. That's textbook circular reasoning. I don't think it matters how many facts are brought to the table, none of them will change your mind on the subject. If sales of WM/BF are higher than you expect, would it change your mind? If they are lower than you expect would it change your mind? If they are exactly what you expect would it change your mind? What fact would be needed to make you go "Oh, well if that's the case I guess everything is fine." because I don't believe such a scenario exists. Click to expand You realize you are using circular reasoning. I said the facts will answer the question and favoritism is as rampant as racism...there is a agenda that could be more than just race based...when women like Jade Aspen, Jezabel Vessir, Ivy Sherwood etc don't get booked when they are clearly fan favorites but the same women, doing the same thing, with white guys who are the lowest selling do it bothers all porn consumers. That is why the industry is fading. [Link]
research1 Deactivated User 156 Posts 7/15	Posted - Aug 11 2015 : 2:47PM fredgee wrote: murdock wrote: fredgee wrote: ^ I am familiar with it that is why facts are needed...numbers don't lie. Click to expand You clearly think that something nefarious is going on in the industry because this genre that you like isn't represented properly in your mind, and you believe that certain genre isn't represented properly because something nefarious is going on in the industry. That's textbook circular reasoning. I don't think it matters how many facts are brought to the table, none of them will change your mind on the subject. If sales of WM/BF are higher than you expect, would it change your mind? If they are lower than you expect would it change your mind? If they are exactly what you expect would it change your mind? What fact would be needed to make you go "Oh, well if that's the case I guess everything is fine." because I don't believe such a scenario exists. Click to expand You realize you are using circular reasoning. I said the facts will answer the question and favoritism is as rampant as racism...there is a agenda that could be more than just race based...when women like Jade Aspen, Jezabel Vessir, Ivy Sherwood etc don't get booked when they are clearly fan favorites but the same women, doing the same thing, with white guys who are the lowest selling do it bothers all porn consumers. That is why the industry is fading. Click to expand Wow, you really have a problem with White men fucking Black women. You seriously do. Jade Aspen doesn't shoot that many IR scenes. In fact, she's been most active lately in non-IR scenes. Porn is not her main thing, she does more dancing and escorting. Jezabel Vessir doesn't live in L.A. She shoots a few weeks at a time and then goes back to her cam work. Ivy Sherwood hasn't shot many scenes, IR or non-IR. She could very well be out of the industry. It's most Black and Biracial guys who direct scenes for Black companies. They are the ones making decisions on who to book, not White men. If Black performers are not being scheduled for enough BM/BW scenes, it is the fault of BM directors not non-Black people. [Link]

fredgee Deactivated User 350 Posts 12/13	Posted - Aug 11 2015 : 2:53PM You have appointed yourself judge and jury..according to you either it is a gay agenda or I don't like IR when I just said the numbers will answer the question and favoritism is as rampant as racism..perhaps you can do us a favor and explain how you know what Jade, Jezabel, Ivy are doing..then maybe more people will support your judgeship. [Link]
Mass Facialties Deactivated User "Facialized Vol. 7" 2021 AVN Awards Winner: Best Oral Movie 9308 Posts 9/13	Posted - Aug 11 2015 : 3:22PM In regards to black-on-black porn, I definitely remember MimeFreak himself (formerly an Elegant Angel director, now working with ArchAngel) lamenting on his thread some time ago that it just doesn't sell. Not that it explains why some black girls opt to not work with "their own", but it is an unfortunate reality that a black girl is essentially required to have interracial sex to make a living in this industry whereas a white girl has a choice as to whether or not she wants to work (have sex) with a male partner of a different race; this is one of the things Chanell Heart mentioned in that previously posted interview of hers. [Link]
fredgee Deactivated User 350 Posts 12/13	Posted - Aug 11 2015 : 4:00PM Mimefreak is a industry insider what he says has to be taken with a grain of salt..did he give numbers to back up his claim...he can if he wanted to. [Link]
Mass Facialties Deactivated User "Facialized Vol. 7" 2021 AVN Awards Winner: Best Oral Movie 9308 Posts 9/13	Posted - Aug 11 2015 : 4:03PM ^ Ah yes, of course, he's in on this mass conspiracy, too. [Link]
misspornUSA Senior Member I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13	Posted - Aug 11 2015 : 4:08PM fredgee wrote: Good news is more people are getting into the business change is coming. Click to expand Who are these people and what changes do you expect them to bring? [Link]
fredgee Deactivated User 350 Posts 12/13	Posted - Aug 11 2015 : 4:09PM ^ Not calling names or pointing fingers just saying he works in the industry and has a stake in it..he can give numbers to back up his claim if he wanted to. That would settle the issue once and for all provided the numbers are from a reputable source. [Link]
Mass Facialties Deactivated User "Facialized Vol. 7" 2021 AVN Awards Winner: Best Oral Movie 9308 Posts 9/13	Posted - Aug 11 2015 : 4:40PM ^ While he was at Elegant Angel (and producing black-on-black movies), he saw the numbers for himself. Frankly, being that he's not only a director but also a black man in this industry, I'll take his word over yours. [Link]
Interracial4Life Deactivated User 329 Posts 3/15	Posted - Aug 11 2015 : 4:43PM fredgee wrote: If it is true wm/bf is the least selling genre but every time a Black woman works it is with a white male something sinister is going on in the industry. The excuses about race categorization as marketing, business fly out the window because it does not sell as well as other genres. Even if wm/bf is not the least selling but ranks near the bottom it is still a race agenda because that is the only way Black women work . Good news is more people are getting into the business change is coming. Click to expand No it's not, it's still the same, like LT said on this thread black porn is still there but not one isn't making it, we still have some black porn but not a lot. So it still the same sethrob882 wrote: The problem with your argument is you've yet to prove it you don't have statistical proof that wm/bf is the lowest selling or even that it ranks near the bottom, you and interracial4life haven't backed your claims up you just continue to repeat the same thing Click to expand Dude WTF did you read what I posted from Marie Luv, I'm going to say this one more fucking time. The reason is that WM/BF movies don't sell because they aren't as popular BM/WF IR movies. Like Marie Luv said the directors or companines don't want to put up the money to make those movies which is why they won't sell. Matter of fact how many companies that shoot WM/BF scenes, less then 1 or 2. Jules Jordan, Elegant Angel, Evil Angel, WCP did had WM/BF movies before but they never sale unlike the BM/WF IR. Companies normally have a 2 movie thing if the second movie don't sell then they stoped. Wesley Pipes during a interview with Vlad TV said that WM/BF scenes aren't as strong as BM/WF IR. Now most IR fans are more excited to see there favorite white girl next IR scene or an white girls 1st IR scene then a black girl scene with a white men. Not enough support or money for black woman in porn which is true [Link]
sethrob882 Member 306 Posts 4/15	Posted - Aug 11 2015 : 4:50PM fredgee wrote: Mimefreak is a industry insider what he says has to be taken with a grain of salt..did he give numbers to back up his claim...he can if he wanted to. Click to expand You haven't given numbers to back your claim either you just keep repeating it with no proof or evidence at all, the only thing that has been posted to back your claim was a Marie luv quote from 6 years ago and that didn't confirm that it sold the worst or near the bottom [Link]
Curtom Deactivated User 293 Posts 8/14	Posted - Aug 11 2015 : 4:57PM murdock wrote: fredgee wrote: ^ I am familiar with it that is why facts are needed...numbers don't lie. Click to expand You clearly think that something nefarious is going on in the industry because this genre that you like isn't represented properly in your mind, and you believe that certain genre isn't represented properly because something nefarious is going on in the industry. That's textbook circular reasoning. I don't think it matters how many facts are brought to the table, none of them will change your mind on the subject. If sales of WM/BF are higher than you expect, would it change your mind? If they are lower than you expect would it change your mind? If they are exactly what you expect would it change your mind? What fact would be needed to make you go "Oh, well if that's the case I guess everything is fine." because I don't believe such a scenario exists. Click to expand Well of course something nefarious is going on in the industry. Why else are new females not queried about working with white men. [Link]
fredgee Deactivated User 350 Posts 12/13	Posted - Aug 11 2015 : 5:04PM The point of having numbers is no one word has to be taken..if Mimfreak is saying bf/bm sells less than wm/wf that is to be expected in a white male dominated industry but does it lose money. Does bm/bf sell much less than wm/bf, does it sell more, that is the question and he could provide numbers, cold hard facts, not opinions. [Link]
murdock Member I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06	Posted - Aug 11 2015 : 5:29PM ^ I'll ask again since you ignored it last time... What numbers would make you change your mind about the nefarious conspiracy in porn? Because I'm not even going to bother to try and research the numbers if you're not willing to change your mind. And at some point you're going to have to trust someone unluess you're the one who tallied the sales figures. You clearly don't trust Mimefreak, so if he actually said what the numbers were, no doubt you'd label him part of the conspiracy and say he's lying. If he pointed you to an industry website, you'd just say "it's part of the industrial conspiracy" and ignore them. Why even ask for sales figures when the only group that could possibly provide accurate numbers is the same group you're accusing of perpetrating the conspiracy in the first place? you've created a completely un-provable stance and you're expecting everyone else here to believe you without any proof. [Link]
murdock Member I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06	Posted - Aug 11 2015 : 5:40PM fredgee wrote: You realize you are using circular reasoning. I said the facts will answer the question and favoritism is as rampant as racism...there is a agenda that could be more than just race based...when women like Jade Aspen, Jezabel Vessir, Ivy Sherwood etc don't get booked when they are clearly fan favorites but the same women, doing the same thing, with white guys who are the lowest selling do it bothers all porn consumers. That is why the industry is fading. Click to expand nothing I said was circular reasoning. That aside, you're actually right about one thing for once, there is an agenda besides racism in the industry... it's called "profit." That's what determines the studios decisions to produce porn, but to think that it is the only factor shows a completely ignorant understanding of the industry. Sales figures don't tell the whole story. Diversification is important for a long term business strategy so for a studio to decide "We're only going to shoot one genre of porn" is going to be doomed to failure. They're going to shoot multiple types of porn for multiple audiences, and they are going to focus on what is most profitable. That isn' the same as best selling as some genres of porn are cheaper to produce than others so just because something sells more doesn't mean it is more profitable. Also the studios can control what they can shoot, but they have no control over what they can't shoot. If a studio decides they want to shoot a BM/BF scene with Jezbel Vessir, that's great, but if she isn't available, doesn't want to, wants too much money, doesn't like the male performer, isn't in town when the week they want to shoot, or any number of reasons why a scene might not get made then the scene won't happen. Point being that you can't point to a studios lack of production of a certain type of scene with a certain performer as proof of some conspiracy. I mean... I guess you can, but you'll look foolish doing so. These are complex issues and you're trying to analyze them in the simplest terms possible and that is causing you to reach some outrageous conclusions. (well, that and you already believed the outrageous conclusions to start with, hence the circular reasoning) [Link]
murdock Member I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06	Posted - Aug 11 2015 : 5:43PM fredgee wrote: The point of having numbers is no one word has to be taken..if Mimfreak is saying bf/bm sells less than wm/wf that is to be expected in a white male dominated industry but does it lose money. Does bm/bf sell much less than wm/bf, does it sell more, that is the question and he could provide numbers, cold hard facts, not opinions. Click to expand Again, you've given no one here any indication that you'll believe Mimefreak if he were to provide such numbers, and you're asking for information that is almost certainly never going to be made available publicly. You'd have a better chance of getting Yum! Brands to release the Colonel's original recipe of 11 tasty herbs and spices, or Coca Cola to release their secret recipe. [Link]
Goldstein All-Star Member "You have sacrificed nothing and no one." 3689 Posts 8/10	Posted - Aug 11 2015 : 5:58PM After reading this last page, I found myself reminded of this. So, to those of you still of sound mind, walk away. Seriously, just walk away. Get back to enjoying ADT again. [Link]
fredgee Deactivated User 350 Posts 12/13	Posted - Aug 11 2015 : 6:21PM murdock wrote: fredgee wrote: You realize you are using circular reasoning. I said the facts will answer the question and favoritism is as rampant as racism...there is a agenda that could be more than just race based...when women like Jade Aspen, Jezabel Vessir, Ivy Sherwood etc don't get booked when they are clearly fan favorites but the same women, doing the same thing, with white guys who are the lowest selling do it bothers all porn consumers. That is why the industry is fading. Click to expand nothing I said was circular reasoning. That aside, you're actually right about one thing for once, there is an agenda besides racism in the industry... it's called "profit." That's what determines the studios decisions to produce porn, but to think that it is the only factor shows a completely ignorant understanding of the industry. Sales figures don't tell the whole story. Diversification is important for a long term business strategy so for a studio to decide "We're only going to shoot one genre of porn" is going to be doomed to failure. They're going to shoot multiple types of porn for multiple audiences, and they are going to focus on what is most profitable. That isn' the same as best selling as some genres of porn are cheaper to produce than others so just because something sells more doesn't mean it is more profitable. Also the studios can control what they can shoot, but they have no control over what they can't shoot. If a studio decides they want to shoot a BM/BF scene with Jezbel Vessir, that's great, but if she isn't available, doesn't want to, wants too much money, doesn't like the male performer, isn't in town when the week they want to shoot, or any number of reasons why a scene might not get made then the scene won't happen. Point being that you can't point to a studios lack of production of a certain type of scene with a certain performer as proof of some conspiracy. I mean... I guess you can, but you'll look foolish doing so. These are complex issues and you're trying to analyze them in the simplest terms possible and that is causing you to reach some outrageous conclusions. (well, that and you already believed the outrageous conclusions to start with, hence the circular reasoning) Click to expand Not going to even try to answer all this but remind you I was actually in the porn industry for years...if a company wanted to shoot Jezabel they know how to get in touch and schedule a shoot now if she does not want to do it that is another question problem is she has not worked in months hard to believe she turned every one down...point I have made over and over is this could not be about race favoritism is just as rampant..Americans have been conditioned to see everything through race and that allows people with a agenda to get away with what they are doing. It is like a magician using distraction to make people think he is sawing a woman in half..porn is fading, becoming a one dimension industry and race is probably a distraction. If it is going to survive we need diversity and inclusion like it use to be in the old days. [Link]

Author

Post

misspornUSA
Senior Member

I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine).
8737 Posts
11/13

Posted - Aug 9 2015 : 7:48PM

Are you familiar with the term "confirmation bias"?

[Link]

Interracial4Life
Deactivated User

329 Posts
3/15

Posted - Aug 9 2015 : 8:40PM

sethrob882 wrote:
fredgee wrote:
^^ Word is Skin Diamond is only doing GG so something changed her idea of working with wm. If money loser and least selling are not synonymous BM/BF would be more common...The industry has to be pushing a racial agenda the race theme titles, lack of Black women working with Black men and wm/bf still being produced when it is the worst selling genre of all is proof of it even if some people grin and bear it.
Click to expand
Skin diamond has a boyfriend I believe that is the reason she is only doing Girl Girl plus she also worked with black men does that mean she changed her mind about them also?where is the the proof that wm/bf is the worst selling genre you and interracial4life have yet to show hard evidence or proof that show that wm/bf is the worst selling genre.
Click to expand

Ok sethrob882 since you want some proof why WM/BF movies don't sell well, and they don't get made. Marie Luv said it best why WM/BF doesn't sell

Like she said it directors or companies don't really care for it. How many WM/BF movies do Jules Jordan, Evil Angels, Elegent, WCP, and Hard X have...less then you think. But let not forget that most IR buyer are white men too so if BM/WF is selling then the more will be made, Supply and Demand
Edited by - Interracial4Life on 8/9/2015 8:43:13 PM

[Link]

sethrob882
Member

306 Posts
4/15

Posted - Aug 9 2015 : 11:37PM

^
That quote is 6 years old, and again I never said wm/bf is a top seller or that it out sells BM/WF you however said that wm/bf is the worst selling genre and you've still yet to prove that, I acknowledged that it isn't mass produced because it isn't but bangbros,dogfart and reality kings all cater to the genre and provide weekly to monthly updates so its still produced and IMO if the genre were mass produced I think that there would be a few wm/bf DVDs in the top 50 on a consistent basis in fact there is one in the top 50 right now under price searches white out is at no.16.

[Link]

IWatchUSmash
Deactivated User

ooh shit she bouncing!!
638 Posts
1/14

Posted - Aug 10 2015 : 12:42AM

What is evident is with black porn being pushed to the bottom of the barrel by several companies black women have now been forced into working with random dudes right from the jump and don't have the same "options" as their White, Latin and Asian counterparts. So if you look at a new black porn starlets scene list in the current climate you'll find she's done several scenes with Latin and White dudes and not a single black scene is in sight. The Florida studios in particular appear to match black women with ANYONE but a black man.
So to me it's clear there is an agenda at play but what makes it even worse is some of these black women are helping this agenda!!..Anya Ivy, Cassidy Banks, Jezebel Yassir, Ava Sanchez, Jaye Austin, Ajaa XXX, Noe Milk etc shun working with black males and so it merely justifies these studios actions where black porn is concerned. So much so that even veterans like Diamond Jackson and Codi Bryant stopped doing black porn too.
To be honest i used to think black women had it the worst in the porn industry but now my views have changed. Black men are just marginalized year after year by every single race of women in the industry to the point where some unknown Latin or Asian guy can work with the cream of the female talent in the industry while a legend who's won three AVN awards such as Lex would be rejected by the same group of women. Including those from a similar background to him SMH.

[Link]

misspornUSA
Senior Member

I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine).
8737 Posts
11/13

Posted - Aug 10 2015 : 12:55AM

^You make a good point in your last paragraph. Black women may have a hard time getting work in the industry, but at least they are not collectively segregated the way black men are.

[Link]

research1
Deactivated User

156 Posts
7/15

Posted - Aug 10 2015 : 2:25AM

That's such ridiculous b.s.
You certainly have an axe to grind with WM or non-Black men fucking BW.
In case you hadn't noticed, there's a lot higher demand for WM/BF porn in the last 2 years which is why so much more of it is being produced.
More BF/WM porn being produced means more work for BW= more BW getting into the industry and more BM/BW porn.
In case you guys don't believe me...there's more BM/BW movies out in 2015 compared to 2014 and 2014 was a slight increase over 2013.
So this b.s. about BM/BW porn not being made is totally wrong.

[Link]

Curtom
Deactivated User

293 Posts
8/14

Posted - Aug 10 2015 : 5:15AM

IWatchUSmash wrote:
What is evident is with black porn being pushed to the bottom of the barrel by several companies black women have now been forced into working with random dudes right from the jump and don't have the same "options" as their White, Latin and Asian counterparts. So if you look at a new black porn starlets scene list in the current climate you'll find she's done several scenes with Latin and White dudes and not a single black scene is in sight. The Florida studios in particular appear to match black women with ANYONE but a black man.
So to me it's clear there is an agenda at play but what makes it even worse is some of these black women are helping this agenda!!..Anya Ivy, Cassidy Banks, Jezebel Yassir, Ava Sanchez, Jaye Austin, Ajaa XXX, Noe Milk etc shun working with black males and so it merely justifies these studios actions where black porn is concerned. So much so that even veterans like Diamond Jackson and Codi Bryant stopped doing black porn too.
To be honest i used to think black women had it the worst in the porn industry but now my views have changed. Black men are just marginalized year after year by every single race of women in the industry to the point where some unknown Latin or Asian guy can work with the cream of the female talent in the industry while a legend who's won three AVN awards such as Lex would be rejected by the same group of women. Including those from a similar background to him SMH.
Click to expand

You hit the nail on the damn head right here. I can't get over the fact that 20+ year veterans like Lex and Sean Michaels get rejected by some novice white/black/latina/asian woman so she can work with some novice white/latino/asian dude. In no other industry/profession can a novice be granted that much power and be that bold about it. The bargaining power should rest squarely with those that have the most knowledge and experience of the said profession/industry. I find it uncanny that black men get rejected regularly year by latina/asian/white/black females but their has yet been one of those races of women that reject working with white/latin men.
Edited by - Curtom on 8/10/2015 5:19:24 AM
Edited by - Curtom on 8/10/2015 5:19:45 AM
Edited by - Curtom on 8/10/2015 5:23:21 AM

[Link]

murdock
Member

I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV
911 Posts
4/06

Posted - Aug 10 2015 : 11:45AM

If this hypothetical woman refused to work with Lex or Sean simply because they were black, then I can see that being an issue, but I can't really see how you or anyone else would know that with any certainty. "Seniority" is a double edged sword in porn. Sure it means you have experience which is good, but it also means you're getting old. If Randy West's old ass was still in front of the camera should he get his pick of the litter simply because he's been around since The Great Flood? No, of course not, that would be dumb.

Well I think you're missing the larger issue with where the power lies, and that is with women for the most part. The majority of of the porn buying public is much more concerned with the female talent on camera than the men, and as long as that trend continues the female performers will wield more power than men.

I can't imagine that you can actually substantiate this claim with facts.

[Link]

Curtom
Deactivated User

293 Posts
8/14

Posted - Aug 10 2015 : 12:07PM

murdock wrote:
Curtom wrote:
You hit the nail on the damn head right here. I can't get over the fact that 20+ year veterans like Lex and Sean Michaels get rejected by some novice white/black/latina/asian woman so she can work with some novice white/latino/asian dude.
Click to expand
If this hypothetical woman refused to work with Lex or Sean simply because they were black, then I can see that being an issue, but I can't really see how you or anyone else would know that with any certainty. "Seniority" is a double edged sword in porn. Sure it means you have experience which is good, but it also means you're getting old. If Randy West's old ass was still in front of the camera should he get his pick of the litter simply because he's been around since The Great Flood? No, of course not, that would be dumb.
In no other industry/profession can a novice be granted that much power and be that bold about it. The bargaining power should rest squarely with those that have the most knowledge and experience of the said profession/industry.
Click to expand
Well I think you're missing the larger issue with where the power lies, and that is with women for the most part. The majority of of the porn buying public is much more concerned with the female talent on camera than the men, and as long as that trend continues the female performers will wield more power than men.
I find it uncanny that black men get rejected regularly year by latina/asian/white/black females but their has yet been one of those races of women that reject working with white/latin men.
Click to expand
I can't imagine that you can actually substantiate this claim with facts.
Click to expand

Let me clarify, there has yet to been to my knowledge, a black/white/asian/latina female pornstar who has refused to with all of one or more races. In other words no asian/black/white/latina women to my knowledge as ever publicly said she would NEVER work with ALL white male performers. Have you? That is almost unreal since if the argument that they are making is that it is about 'attraction' then what does that tell us about those girls and wider society. Not all asian/white/latina/black females in society are attracted to white men, so how come not one single one of those said women make it into porn and thus refuse to work with white male performers? Does porn magically only attract asian/latin/black/white women who are not attracted to black men but not white men? That's statistically very unlikely. I'm no conspiracy theorist but something else is going on here.
Edited by - Curtom on 8/10/2015 12:14:47 PM

[Link]

misspornUSA
Senior Member

I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine).
8737 Posts
11/13

Posted - Aug 10 2015 : 12:28PM

^Those pornstars are generally just following a business model that was suggested to them by their agent, by a fellow pornstar, or followed by a pornstar whose success they wish to emulate.

[Link]

fredgee
Deactivated User

350 Posts
12/13

Posted - Aug 10 2015 : 12:57PM

We need the sales stats if wm/bf is the worst selling genre then something sinister is going on in the porn industry. It would explain why Black women are not working as much as the demand is there for them.

[Link]

Alzharhok
Senior Member

1481 Posts
6/10

Posted - Aug 10 2015 : 1:40PM

^ Lowest selling genre in all of porn? No chance. Even if you just mean least popular in terms of any possible different racial pairing the answer is still almost certainly no. Too many still updating sites dedicated to that particular pairing for that to be possible.
I follow a ton of black pornstars/cam girls and I have heard plenty of them go into detail about how whether they like it or not, that a large percentage sometimes even a majority of their fans and paying customers are white males. It's not as popular as BM/WF of course, but still a good amount of people do want to watch black girls get fucked by white guys on camera.
Not really sure what is so hard to get about that.
Edited by - Alzharhok on 8/10/2015 1:41:56 PM

[Link]

fredgee
Deactivated User

350 Posts
12/13

Posted - Aug 10 2015 : 1:44PM

^ That is your opinion but the whole debate is just opinions thats why facts are needed. Imagine if it is true wm/bf is the worst selling genre in the industry but white males are still with Black women in every scene...that is a very troubling image.

[Link]

Billdude
Member

60 Posts
6/15

Posted - Aug 10 2015 : 2:50PM

Why does only Black IR get you going? Why not watch White/Latino or White/Asian or even Asian/Latino (there's some AM/LF and LM/AF porn out there) if you need some diversity.

[Link]

murdock
Member

I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV
911 Posts
4/06

Posted - Aug 10 2015 : 3:24PM

I find it interesting that the more specific the racial preferences are of a particular porn viewer, the less tolerant they generally seem to be of performers' racial preferences. The more someone complains or takes offense to a performer being selective about the race of their on screen performers, the more likely it is that they themselves are very selective about the race of the performers they view.

[Link]

Curtom
Deactivated User

293 Posts
8/14

Posted - Aug 10 2015 : 3:33PM

You didn't respond to comment.

[Link]

murdock
Member

I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV
911 Posts
4/06

Posted - Aug 10 2015 : 6:28PM

^ Not sure what you're getting at, but no that was not a direct response to your comment. If you're wondering why I didn't post a direct response to it, I didn't think one was warranted.

[Link]

Mass Facialties
Deactivated User

"Facialized Vol. 7" 2021 AVN Awards Winner: Best Oral Movie
9308 Posts
9/13

Posted - Aug 11 2015 : 12:25AM

Good point. To expand on that, I've always found it to be a great irony when often in these IR debates, it's those who prefer (favor) black male talent who try to implore everyone else that a performer's skin color shouldn't matter.

[Link]

research1
Deactivated User

156 Posts
7/15

Posted - Aug 11 2015 : 12:31AM

Hilarious and true.
I'd also like to add the ones who claim that there's nothing gay about cuckold porn and it's just a fetish...often turn out to be the ones who praise cuckold stuff in their posts.
Oh sure, it's a fetish alright...a gay fetish hahaha.

[Link]

misspornUSA
Senior Member

I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine).
8737 Posts
11/13

Posted - Aug 11 2015 : 12:40AM

You believe that what Curtom described is generally an issue of the racial preferences of individual pornstars rather than a business matter?

[Link]

misspornUSA
Senior Member

I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine).
8737 Posts
11/13

Posted - Aug 11 2015 : 1:02AM

That some of us prefer black male performers does not mean that we do not view them as men like other men, and therefore should not call on the industry to treat men of all races equally insofar as race is concerned.
Edited by - misspornUSA on 8/11/2015 1:07:00 AM

[Link]

Mass Facialties
Deactivated User

"Facialized Vol. 7" 2021 AVN Awards Winner: Best Oral Movie
9308 Posts
9/13

Posted - Aug 11 2015 : 1:32AM

^
Unfortunately, that won't happen, so long as the act of a black man having sex with a white woman is viewed as such a big deal that we have to give it its own category (IR) instead of simply callling it what it is, a B/G scene.

[Link]

murdock
Member

I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV
911 Posts
4/06

Posted - Aug 11 2015 : 2:04AM

Yeah, it astounds me how big the disconnect is with some people with regards to their preferences and how how that affects the porn business. They demand racially categorized porn, and complain that performers are racially categorized, and somehow can't see the connection between the two. Many are more than willing to point their fingers at the industry, and say "That's racist" but it is verboten to ask, "Why do you suppose it is that the industry does these racist things?"
It would be like people demanding more nicotine in cigarettes, and then complaining that "Big Tobacco" is making cigarettes too addictive.

[Link]

research1
Deactivated User

156 Posts
7/15

Posted - Aug 11 2015 : 2:59AM

I'll put in a little defense for IR as a category here:
It's a lot easier for viewers to sort out what combination they want to see. Data18.com allows you to match male/female ethnic categories to suit the viewer. I understand that isn't important to some people, but it is to a lot of people.
I understand that you're referring to the tiresome and weird "freak show" theme that is forced on IR porn though. That is something I'd wish would go away as well.

[Link]

Curtom
Deactivated User

293 Posts
8/14

Posted - Aug 11 2015 : 5:50AM

murdock wrote:
Mass Facialties wrote:
Good point. To expand on that, I've always found it to be a great irony when often in these IR debates, it's those who prefer (favor) black male talent who try to implore everyone else that a performer's skin color shouldn't matter.
Click to expand
Yeah, it astounds me how big the disconnect is with some people with regards to their preferences and how how that affects the porn business. They demand racially categorized porn, and complain that performers are racially categorized, and somehow can't see the connection between the two. Many are more than willing to point their fingers at the industry, and say "That's racist" but it is verboten to ask, "Why do you suppose it is that the industry does these racist things?"
It would be like people demanding more nicotine in cigarettes, and then complaining that "Big Tobacco" is making cigarettes too addictive.
Click to expand

I have no problem with the labelling of porn by race. That's purely marketing. It's more convenient for the consumer.

[Link]

shalalin
Senior Member

1741 Posts
11/07

Posted - Aug 11 2015 : 10:15AM

I don't think it's tied to race specifically though - certain sections of the "no anal no watch" crowd are just as intolerant. And the highlight of any membership site comment section is the repetitive whining by both the "feet must always be bare" and the "shoes must always stay on" fetishists, especially when they start downvoting each other.
Tunnel vision breeds intolerance, and there's plenty of that out there in porn fandom. The only difference with the race intolerants is that they've deluded themselves into thinking that they're advocates for great societal change, not just for different porn.
Edited by - shalalin on 8/11/2015 10:17:09 AM

[Link]

fredgee
Deactivated User

350 Posts
12/13

Posted - Aug 11 2015 : 11:52AM

If it is true wm/bf is the least selling genre but every time a Black woman works it is with a white male something sinister is going on in the industry. The excuses about race categorization as marketing, business fly out the window because it does not sell as well as other genres. Even if wm/bf is not the least selling but ranks near the bottom it is still a race agenda because that is the only way Black women work . Good news is more people are getting into the business change is coming.

[Link]

murdock
Member

I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV
911 Posts
4/06

Posted - Aug 11 2015 : 12:28PM

^ Are you familiar with circular reasoning?

[Link]

fredgee
Deactivated User

350 Posts
12/13

Posted - Aug 11 2015 : 12:50PM

^ I am familiar with it that is why facts are needed...numbers don't lie.

[Link]

murdock
Member

I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV
911 Posts
4/06

Posted - Aug 11 2015 : 12:51PM

Well yes, you hit on a point that I've made before and that probably 95% of the threads on here (outside of the "Can anyone identify the girl in this picture/tubelink that violates the forum policy?" threads) boil down to, "I like ____ and they need to make more ____ and if you don't like ____ you should be more tolerant." regardless of whatever social justice they try to camouflage it with.
There will always be some irony and hypocrisy when someone is screaming for more tolerance on an issue, all while they're actually being less tolerant regarding that issue, but what makes the racism stuff so interesting to me is in that case, the hypocrites are actually right in the big scheme of things, they are just a little myopic when it comes to their own intolerance.

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murdock
Member

I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV
911 Posts
4/06

Posted - Aug 11 2015 : 12:59PM

You clearly think that something nefarious is going on in the industry because this genre that you like isn't represented properly in your mind, and you believe that certain genre isn't represented properly because something nefarious is going on in the industry. That's textbook circular reasoning.
I don't think it matters how many facts are brought to the table, none of them will change your mind on the subject.
If sales of WM/BF are higher than you expect, would it change your mind? If they are lower than you expect would it change your mind? If they are exactly what you expect would it change your mind? What fact would be needed to make you go "Oh, well if that's the case I guess everything is fine." because I don't believe such a scenario exists.

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sethrob882
Member

306 Posts
4/15

Posted - Aug 11 2015 : 1:31PM

The problem with your argument is you've yet to prove it you don't have statistical proof that wm/bf is the lowest selling or even that it ranks near the bottom, you and interracial4life haven't backed your claims up you just continue to repeat the same thing

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fredgee
Deactivated User

350 Posts
12/13

Posted - Aug 11 2015 : 2:24PM

murdock wrote:
fredgee wrote:
^ I am familiar with it that is why facts are needed...numbers don't lie.
Click to expand
You clearly think that something nefarious is going on in the industry because this genre that you like isn't represented properly in your mind, and you believe that certain genre isn't represented properly because something nefarious is going on in the industry. That's textbook circular reasoning.
I don't think it matters how many facts are brought to the table, none of them will change your mind on the subject.
If sales of WM/BF are higher than you expect, would it change your mind? If they are lower than you expect would it change your mind? If they are exactly what you expect would it change your mind? What fact would be needed to make you go "Oh, well if that's the case I guess everything is fine." because I don't believe such a scenario exists.
Click to expand

You realize you are using circular reasoning. I said the facts will answer the question and favoritism is as rampant as racism...there is a agenda that could be more than just race based...when women like Jade Aspen, Jezabel Vessir, Ivy Sherwood etc don't get booked when they are clearly fan favorites but the same women, doing the same thing, with white guys who are the lowest selling do it bothers all porn consumers. That is why the industry is fading.

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research1
Deactivated User

156 Posts
7/15

Posted - Aug 11 2015 : 2:47PM

fredgee wrote:
murdock wrote:
fredgee wrote:
^ I am familiar with it that is why facts are needed...numbers don't lie.
Click to expand
You clearly think that something nefarious is going on in the industry because this genre that you like isn't represented properly in your mind, and you believe that certain genre isn't represented properly because something nefarious is going on in the industry. That's textbook circular reasoning.
I don't think it matters how many facts are brought to the table, none of them will change your mind on the subject.
If sales of WM/BF are higher than you expect, would it change your mind? If they are lower than you expect would it change your mind? If they are exactly what you expect would it change your mind? What fact would be needed to make you go "Oh, well if that's the case I guess everything is fine." because I don't believe such a scenario exists.
Click to expand
You realize you are using circular reasoning. I said the facts will answer the question and favoritism is as rampant as racism...there is a agenda that could be more than just race based...when women like Jade Aspen, Jezabel Vessir, Ivy Sherwood etc don't get booked when they are clearly fan favorites but the same women, doing the same thing, with white guys who are the lowest selling do it bothers all porn consumers. That is why the industry is fading.
Click to expand

Wow, you really have a problem with White men fucking Black women. You seriously do.
Jade Aspen doesn't shoot that many IR scenes. In fact, she's been most active lately in non-IR scenes. Porn is not her main thing, she does more dancing and escorting.
Jezabel Vessir doesn't live in L.A. She shoots a few weeks at a time and then goes back to her cam work.
Ivy Sherwood hasn't shot many scenes, IR or non-IR. She could very well be out of the industry.
It's most Black and Biracial guys who direct scenes for Black companies. They are the ones making decisions on who to book, not White men.
If Black performers are not being scheduled for enough BM/BW scenes, it is the fault of BM directors not non-Black people.

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fredgee
Deactivated User

350 Posts
12/13

Posted - Aug 11 2015 : 2:53PM

You have appointed yourself judge and jury..according to you either it is a gay agenda or I don't like IR when I just said the numbers will answer the question and favoritism is as rampant as racism..perhaps you can do us a favor and explain how you know what Jade, Jezabel, Ivy are doing..then maybe more people will support your judgeship.

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Mass Facialties
Deactivated User

"Facialized Vol. 7" 2021 AVN Awards Winner: Best Oral Movie
9308 Posts
9/13

Posted - Aug 11 2015 : 3:22PM

In regards to black-on-black porn, I definitely remember MimeFreak himself (formerly an Elegant Angel director, now working with ArchAngel) lamenting on his thread some time ago that it just doesn't sell. Not that it explains why some black girls opt to not work with "their own", but it is an unfortunate reality that a black girl is essentially required to have interracial sex to make a living in this industry whereas a white girl has a choice as to whether or not she wants to work (have sex) with a male partner of a different race; this is one of the things Chanell Heart mentioned in that previously posted interview of hers.

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fredgee
Deactivated User

350 Posts
12/13

Posted - Aug 11 2015 : 4:00PM

Mimefreak is a industry insider what he says has to be taken with a grain of salt..did he give numbers to back up his claim...he can if he wanted to.

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Mass Facialties
Deactivated User

"Facialized Vol. 7" 2021 AVN Awards Winner: Best Oral Movie
9308 Posts
9/13

Posted - Aug 11 2015 : 4:03PM

^
Ah yes, of course, he's in on this mass conspiracy, too.

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misspornUSA
Senior Member

I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine).
8737 Posts
11/13

Posted - Aug 11 2015 : 4:08PM

Who are these people and what changes do you expect them to bring?

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fredgee
Deactivated User

350 Posts
12/13

Posted - Aug 11 2015 : 4:09PM

^ Not calling names or pointing fingers just saying he works in the industry and has a stake in it..he can give numbers to back up his claim if he wanted to. That would settle the issue once and for all provided the numbers are from a reputable source.

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Mass Facialties
Deactivated User

"Facialized Vol. 7" 2021 AVN Awards Winner: Best Oral Movie
9308 Posts
9/13

Posted - Aug 11 2015 : 4:40PM

^
While he was at Elegant Angel (and producing black-on-black movies), he saw the numbers for himself. Frankly, being that he's not only a director but also a black man in this industry, I'll take his word over yours.

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Interracial4Life
Deactivated User

329 Posts
3/15

Posted - Aug 11 2015 : 4:43PM

No it's not, it's still the same, like LT said on this thread black porn is still there but not one isn't making it, we still have some black porn but not a lot. So it still the same

Dude WTF did you read what I posted from Marie Luv, I'm going to say this one more fucking time. The reason is that WM/BF movies don't sell because they aren't as popular BM/WF IR movies. Like Marie Luv said the directors or companines don't want to put up the money to make those movies which is why they won't sell. Matter of fact how many companies that shoot WM/BF scenes, less then 1 or 2. Jules Jordan, Elegant Angel, Evil Angel, WCP did had WM/BF movies before but they never sale unlike the BM/WF IR. Companies normally have a 2 movie thing if the second movie don't sell then they stoped. Wesley Pipes during a interview with Vlad TV said that WM/BF scenes aren't as strong as BM/WF IR. Now most IR fans are more excited to see there favorite white girl next IR scene or an white girls 1st IR scene then a black girl scene with a white men. Not enough support or money for black woman in porn which is true

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sethrob882
Member

306 Posts
4/15

Posted - Aug 11 2015 : 4:50PM

You haven't given numbers to back your claim either you just keep repeating it with no proof or evidence at all, the only thing that has been posted to back your claim was a Marie luv quote from 6 years ago and that didn't confirm that it sold the worst or near the bottom

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Curtom
Deactivated User

293 Posts
8/14

Posted - Aug 11 2015 : 4:57PM

murdock wrote:
fredgee wrote:
^ I am familiar with it that is why facts are needed...numbers don't lie.
Click to expand
You clearly think that something nefarious is going on in the industry because this genre that you like isn't represented properly in your mind, and you believe that certain genre isn't represented properly because something nefarious is going on in the industry. That's textbook circular reasoning.
I don't think it matters how many facts are brought to the table, none of them will change your mind on the subject.
If sales of WM/BF are higher than you expect, would it change your mind? If they are lower than you expect would it change your mind? If they are exactly what you expect would it change your mind? What fact would be needed to make you go "Oh, well if that's the case I guess everything is fine." because I don't believe such a scenario exists.
Click to expand

Well of course something nefarious is going on in the industry. Why else are new females not queried about working with white men.

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fredgee
Deactivated User

350 Posts
12/13

Posted - Aug 11 2015 : 5:04PM

The point of having numbers is no one word has to be taken..if Mimfreak is saying bf/bm sells less than wm/wf that is to be expected in a white male dominated industry but does it lose money. Does bm/bf sell much less than wm/bf, does it sell more, that is the question and he could provide numbers, cold hard facts, not opinions.

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murdock
Member

I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV
911 Posts
4/06

Posted - Aug 11 2015 : 5:29PM

^ I'll ask again since you ignored it last time... What numbers would make you change your mind about the nefarious conspiracy in porn? Because I'm not even going to bother to try and research the numbers if you're not willing to change your mind. And at some point you're going to have to trust someone unluess you're the one who tallied the sales figures. You clearly don't trust Mimefreak, so if he actually said what the numbers were, no doubt you'd label him part of the conspiracy and say he's lying. If he pointed you to an industry website, you'd just say "it's part of the industrial conspiracy" and ignore them.
Why even ask for sales figures when the only group that could possibly provide accurate numbers is the same group you're accusing of perpetrating the conspiracy in the first place?
you've created a completely un-provable stance and you're expecting everyone else here to believe you without any proof.

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murdock
Member

I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV
911 Posts
4/06

Posted - Aug 11 2015 : 5:40PM

nothing I said was circular reasoning.
That aside, you're actually right about one thing for once, there is an agenda besides racism in the industry... it's called "profit." That's what determines the studios decisions to produce porn, but to think that it is the only factor shows a completely ignorant understanding of the industry. Sales figures don't tell the whole story. Diversification is important for a long term business strategy so for a studio to decide "We're only going to shoot one genre of porn" is going to be doomed to failure. They're going to shoot multiple types of porn for multiple audiences, and they are going to focus on what is most profitable. That isn' the same as best selling as some genres of porn are cheaper to produce than others so just because something sells more doesn't mean it is more profitable. Also the studios can control what they can shoot, but they have no control over what they can't shoot. If a studio decides they want to shoot a BM/BF scene with Jezbel Vessir, that's great, but if she isn't available, doesn't want to, wants too much money, doesn't like the male performer, isn't in town when the week they want to shoot, or any number of reasons why a scene might not get made then the scene won't happen. Point being that you can't point to a studios lack of production of a certain type of scene with a certain performer as proof of some conspiracy. I mean... I guess you can, but you'll look foolish doing so.
These are complex issues and you're trying to analyze them in the simplest terms possible and that is causing you to reach some outrageous conclusions. (well, that and you already believed the outrageous conclusions to start with, hence the circular reasoning)

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murdock
Member

I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV
911 Posts
4/06

Posted - Aug 11 2015 : 5:43PM

Again, you've given no one here any indication that you'll believe Mimefreak if he were to provide such numbers, and you're asking for information that is almost certainly never going to be made available publicly. You'd have a better chance of getting Yum! Brands to release the Colonel's original recipe of 11 tasty herbs and spices, or Coca Cola to release their secret recipe.

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Goldstein

All-Star Member

"You have sacrificed nothing and no one."
3689 Posts
8/10

Posted - Aug 11 2015 : 5:58PM

After reading this last page, I found myself reminded of this.
So, to those of you still of sound mind, walk away.
Seriously, just walk away.
Get back to enjoying ADT again.

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fredgee
Deactivated User

350 Posts
12/13

Posted - Aug 11 2015 : 6:21PM

murdock wrote:
fredgee wrote:
You realize you are using circular reasoning. I said the facts will answer the question and favoritism is as rampant as racism...there is a agenda that could be more than just race based...when women like Jade Aspen, Jezabel Vessir, Ivy Sherwood etc don't get booked when they are clearly fan favorites but the same women, doing the same thing, with white guys who are the lowest selling do it bothers all porn consumers. That is why the industry is fading.
Click to expand
nothing I said was circular reasoning.
That aside, you're actually right about one thing for once, there is an agenda besides racism in the industry... it's called "profit." That's what determines the studios decisions to produce porn, but to think that it is the only factor shows a completely ignorant understanding of the industry. Sales figures don't tell the whole story. Diversification is important for a long term business strategy so for a studio to decide "We're only going to shoot one genre of porn" is going to be doomed to failure. They're going to shoot multiple types of porn for multiple audiences, and they are going to focus on what is most profitable. That isn' the same as best selling as some genres of porn are cheaper to produce than others so just because something sells more doesn't mean it is more profitable. Also the studios can control what they can shoot, but they have no control over what they can't shoot. If a studio decides they want to shoot a BM/BF scene with Jezbel Vessir, that's great, but if she isn't available, doesn't want to, wants too much money, doesn't like the male performer, isn't in town when the week they want to shoot, or any number of reasons why a scene might not get made then the scene won't happen. Point being that you can't point to a studios lack of production of a certain type of scene with a certain performer as proof of some conspiracy. I mean... I guess you can, but you'll look foolish doing so.
These are complex issues and you're trying to analyze them in the simplest terms possible and that is causing you to reach some outrageous conclusions. (well, that and you already believed the outrageous conclusions to start with, hence the circular reasoning)
Click to expand

Not going to even try to answer all this but remind you I was actually in the porn industry for years...if a company wanted to shoot Jezabel they know how to get in touch and schedule a shoot now if she does not want to do it that is another question problem is she has not worked in months hard to believe she turned every one down...point I have made over and over is this could not be about race favoritism is just as rampant..Americans have been conditioned to see everything through race and that allows people with a agenda to get away with what they are doing. It is like a magician using distraction to make people think he is sawing a woman in half..porn is fading, becoming a one dimension industry and race is probably a distraction. If it is going to survive we need diversity and inclusion like it use to be in the old days.

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