#SDNY he's all yours. -- Michael Steele 5110 Posts 3/03
Posted - Dec 7 2017 : 11:08PM
For the benefit of those of you who have relatively recently joined ADT, Janitor = Steph = one of the two owners of the forum you are posting in. She has made a clear request that certain types of messages not be posted. Many posters are ignoring this request.
We also need to use this as an opportunity to talk about our opinions of pornstars' looks and how we voice those opinions. As consumers we have a right to expect our favorite stars to maintain their looks, but there is a certain place and a certain way to voice those opinions of their looks. If you don't like a particular makeover that your favorite pornstar has done, then I think it is acceptable to make that known in a CONSTRUCTIVE way on their thread in a forum, but saying that to them directly on twitter in a salty and vulgar way is despicable. It is not your place to directly tell them that. It is the place of her agent and a porn director to tell her that, and Im sure they would tell her in a constructive way. [Tweet is no longer available]
And it may also be based on higher incidence of infection within the gay male community. At the very least we should evaluate the facts before condemning someone as something which they certainly repudiate. She was no a homophobe. To be phobic of something is to have an irrational fear, and in modern politicized parlance, it carries the connotation of harboring hate. Sexist, racist, homophobe, etc, are all terms with legitimate importance in applicable cases, but also they can be terms used to disparage character, insult ones intellect, and used to dehumanize and invalidate another point of view. Too often we see instances where people are all-too quick to levy these terms as insults against someone without fully appreciating the complex circumstances which contribute to the perceived offense. They've become casual insults robbed of meaning and eventually validity, and this is becoming nearly as counter-productive as actual instances of sexism, racism, bigotry, etc. I just wish some of these people really reconsidered they're attacks on August and others like her - attacks which are still ongoing. I just saw another semi-prominent figure in the social sphere railing against August's homophobic bigotry. The witch hunt persists, even when the "witch" has effectively been executed. Could someone please, without attacking this person (believe me, I know how tempting that urge is right now), help explain to her and others echoing such character attacks on August that August was not actually a "homophobe" in the first place?
Marriage is an abominable institution and sugar kills more people than all drugs combined. No one should be getting married, much less consuming wedding cake to celebrate the beginning of the end for them, the beginning of their descent into mutual acrimony and misery. lol
And quoting the rest because it's well said. Thank you. If people would just be more careful before levying condemnation via targeted and personal attacks, or better yet avoid them altogether in lieu of engaging in a civil debate or mere dialectic in good faith. Good faith has to be demonstrated first in order to have a constructive discussion.
I know someone very important to me who struggles with depression, and I do my part to inspire them and bring light to their day. Sometimes it only takes a little persistence and creativity, to help shift their focus from the negative to the positive. I remind them there's so much good out there to get busy and preoccupied with. There's so much potential to have fun and take greater enjoyment in the world! And I'm poor AS FUCK. I know sometimes it is really not easy with almost no means to pursue what you want, but that's where the creativity comes in, and sometimes the extra effort is what makes it all the more rewarding a pursuit. Edited by - melvyn on 12/8/2017 12:28:51 AM
Yes I just came across this on Twitter. This was great. The funny thing was that some kind, popular pornstar retweeted it with the caption "I don't know who made this, but it's wonderful!" lol I wanted to reply "it has the artist's handle right there in the middle!" but thought better of it. Someone beat me to the punch anyway heh.
I remember when "liberals" were actually tolerant and didn't pretend so they could get away with their own violence and hatred. Seems like a long time ago.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Dec 8 2017 : 12:41AM
My own opinion is that if someone doesn't like the way a pornstar has chosen to alter her appearance, they should just move the fuck on. Obviously that approach is more restrictive than the rules here so I don't ordinarily bring it up, but at the very least I wish that members would consider the fact that just because they can critique a performer's physical appearance in a manner that mods might deem "constructive" that doesn't mean that they should do so. How much of that "constructive" criticism would they share with a performer to her face? Maybe some people will realize that if it would be inappropriate to voice their criticism of the way a performer looks during a face to face conversation with that performer, then maybe it's inappropriate to post that same criticism online.
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bellend Deactivated User
570 Posts 9/09
Posted - Dec 8 2017 : 1:32AM
I suspect there is a lot more to this than "cyber bullying". She was 23. Twitter is rampant with rude curmudgeons, it takes 1 click to block them.
I don't know if it was victim blaming, because he is not blaming August but her surroundings (family, friends and fellow performers) for not helping her in time. August struggled with depression for a long time, you can listen more about it in Holly Randalls podcast Interview with Holly Randall. I tend to agree to that notion. She was in the business for around four years and would sometimes cancel her scenes one or two week ahead an no one helped her or saw the signs? How is this possible? She must have been so alone in the end. But if flying_postman really believes the bullying hadn't an effect on the outcome and possibly pushing August over the brink, then I don't think he knows how your brain under depression works. Because I have no doubt at all that August still would be alive if the bullying wouldn't have taken place - still mighty struggling with a heavy depression that needed immediate therapy and probably medication, but alive.
This just made me realize something I have to admit, which is something I did not even consider how the "higher incidence of infection among gays" argument could actually be applied to blacks - even though I've spent considerable time weighing in on the topic of "higher pay for IR" controversy. But I think that's because virtually none of the females in the industry who avoid IR have ever actually explicitly used that argument. I don't even know what to make of it. It remains unfair that demographic statistics can be used against an individual, but facts also remain facts. And it is what it is. It is unfair and it is factual. What can we do about it? How do we change minds that hold unfair views when those views are based on facts, without changing the facts themselves? August never explicitly made any claims about higher incidence of STD, let alone the bombshell of HIV (which, despite all the advancements in medicine which I've heard have come a long way in treating HIV, remains the kiss of death for performer participation in this industry), but it is reasonable to infer her implication of at least some marginally heightened risk among gay/crossover talent. I have no reason to suspect it had anything to do with hate whatsoever for her. Someone remarked that August herself was queer, to use their word. IDK if that was true, but regardless of her orientation, I defended her right to decline to work with gay/crossover talent. The debate over just how valid her concern was will undoubtedly rage on, and I still would like to see the data. But what is clear is that many, MANY folks, not just her hundreds of thousands of adoring fans outside the industry, but peers within the industry share her concern or respect her decision, even if they don't share the same concern and technically discriminatory practice. A ton of people are batting for her - maybe some of them only precisely because of the weight of the tragic fate. But how many people would bat for a performer who felt the same way about black male talent and the assessed risk associated with that demographic? I'm willing to wager zero. Absolutely zero. That is if the concern was explicitly stated. But what changes in shifting the topic from one demographic to another? I believe the first answer would be, well, assuming we're talking about straight black male talent, then of course they are subject to the same testing as any other straight talent. But wouldn't male talent crossing over from gay work into a straight scene also be subject to the same testing regulation? So how does that risk associated with higher incidence of STD remain? Indeed, if Center for Disease Control reports about higher incidence of STD among blacks are to be believed, how does that associated risk remain for performers in an industry that demands testing? Last I read about it, they test every 2 weeks. Is this still policy? The question remains how certain can anyone be about what happens in the 2 week interim, supposing for example the gay/crossover male talent scheduled to work with August was tested 13 days prior to the shoot? I want to make it clear that none of this associative risk is fair. It is unfair to even assume that a performer is sexually active at all outside of their professional and documented workplace setting. I've heard accounts that for many performers, the only sex they have is what they engage in for work with likewise tested partners. That may sound naive of me, but I do actually believe it is the case for many performers. Anyway, the shit is obviously unfair to the parties discriminated against bc there is pretty much nothing they can do about it. And it is also unfair to condemn someone like August who was only trying to help the replacement performer, or those who followed her work with a given company, to be made aware of what was a significant concern for her. She was only spreading awareness, and the impetus was her concern for her own health, the degree to which will not be the same from person to person. Hypothetically, suppose straight, non-anal B/G porn was 99.999% safe, and it's pretty much the standard level of safety performers expect. It's never 100% safe. Nothing is. Then suppose straight, anal B/G was 99.99% safe. That is effectively 10 times more risk, going from 00.001% risk factor to 00.01%. It also explains if not totally contributes to the higher fee for anal (basic increase in discomfort has to be a factor as well, no?). Then suppose doing a scene with gay/crossover talent is 99.9% safe. Again, that is an increase in risk by a factor of 10 from straight-anal - or a factor of 100 from straight-vaginal. Already we can see how these tiny percentages of risk assessment can translate into dramatically different terms depending on your perspective, and general disposition already varies quite a bit just among the general population or who those within the industry refer to as civilians. One person can look at those hypothetical percentages and say, eh, it's just a 00.01% increased risk here, or a 00.1% increase there. And I dare suggest MOST people would look at it this way. But another person can look at those same stats and say, look, they already don't like the 1 hex higher risk going from straight vaginal to straight anal, so why should they accept the 10 hex higher risk of working with crossover talent? One person sees it as 00.01% difference. Another person sees it as 10 or even 100 times increased risk, depending on what they avail themselves for. We should at least try and consider how August might have looked at this issue. Maybe she was very much misinformed. But maybe she was actually more informed than the average performer. If anyone knows the actual stats, please help us all become better informed. Mine were only hypothetical and admittedly could be wildly off from actual industry data. They are just examples of how easy it could be to get dramatically different readings from the same numbers, even if we did all draw from the same info source, which of course we don't, which makes it harder to parse as it is already. BTW, I know several performers spoke up who said they are willing to work with gay, crossover, and trans talent. And I think that's fine! It's their body, their rules. Just as August said. It is their prerogative to practice in accordance with their own concerns. And as an outspoken fan of interracial, I would find it real fuckin lame and disappointing if those performers pejoratively dubbed "dodgers" now had cart blanche to use the "higher incidence of disease" among blacks as an cop-out excuse to avoid IR. I don't favor those decisions. I just think we have no choice but to respect their rights. It is unfair and it is a slippery slope. But it does not yield clear cut villains, and I'm just asking, what can we do about it? And does it open up other forms of discrimination?
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Muesliman84 Deactivated User
41 Posts 12/17
Posted - Dec 8 2017 : 2:22AM
It's worth pointing out that there are legitimate non racist reasons not to do IR. Some pornstars don't because the way these scenes are framed often supports the outdated idea that having sex with a black man is taboo. I don't know if these are Drake's reasons, but that is a possibility My last take on the August tragedy is that targeting those who legitimately debated and disagreed with her is wholly wrong. It takes focus away from those who genuinely harassed and abused her. Should legitimate debate be shut down just in case someone takes it badly? No. Should encouraging someone to take a cyanide pill lead to prison? Yes. It is no reason to blame the entire gay community, any more than the straight community is to blame for Ron Jeremy and Kurt Lockwood. I don't think anyone should be branded a homophobe or racist fpr life because of one tweet that came across badly. People change, people use poor choices of words. Edited by - Muesliman84 on 12/8/2017 2:23:39 AM
I still feel liberal in my heart. So it's nothing short of tragic to see this emerging wave of vitriolic, cannibalistic, highly illiberal "squeaky wheels" garner all the attention and give liberals a bad name. That's why the term regressive was coined recently. It applies when someone who purports to be in favor of progressive policy (and very well may be sincere about that) demonstrates that their approach is so ironically intolerant it just alienates more people than persuades. So how is the progressive movement served by this? It's not. I feel like my heart remains liberal, and my mind is being pushed toward greater sympathy for conservatives who for far longer I have opposed and even reviled. We need more prominent persuaders to take up the banner of progressives. But it takes brains. It takes intellectual fortitude which seems like something the left has been forfeiting for years now. But you only increase this fortitude through rigorous debate, which again is something more and more liberals have been running from instead of running toward. That's why academia is in such a funk. People don't take on challenge anymore, because it's become "controversial" and to even engage in debate anymore is somehow tantamount to endorsing the very view you are opposing! Look what happened to that teacher's assistant in Canada, Lindsay Shepherd. She was lectured that her willingness to be objective when presenting a debate and to not express a political bias was the problem. When objectivity is lost, what hope is there for education? I think it's fine that many professors have a point of view, but to ignore alternative perspectives, or those counter to theirs, to such a degree as to totally exclude them from the conversation is not making an argument stronger. It makes it weaker. Avoiding controversy and refusing to engage with the other civilly, to the point the other side felt totally ignored is why they become galvanized. That's how we got the Alt-right. They are nothing new. The people who comprise it have been around for decades. They were just ignored for so long, their voices not even acknowledged anymore that they've metastasized and formed some sort of nebulous virtual assembly. By at least acknowledging them, it would not have been too hard to put their grievances to bed. Now we're dealing with "crypto-fascists" - which is just fucking wonderful cuz now we have a ridiculous group to oppose the naked communist "intelligentsia" who are also ridiculous in their fake crusade of public outrage over capitalism, while benefiting directly from it in private. People are just too afraid these days to even broach potentially touchy topics, and I think by running away it shows they lack confidence and this could largely be because they know their arguments are weak. That is why I found Gary Younge's aborted interview with Richard Spencer a staggering disappointment, whereas Roland Martin's full on debate for 25 minutes was to be applauded. Younge couldn't even conduct a proper interview with basic introduction to the issues at hand for 3 minutes, while Martin took Spencer head on, more combatively and more thoroughly. Dems just got lazy under Obama, took his hard work for granted. They got exposed in 2016 the way Cersei was forced to take the walk of shame in Game of Thrones. But I digress... imagine that! Edited by - melvyn on 12/8/2017 2:48:58 AM Edited by - melvyn on 12/8/2017 2:57:42 AM
It is a very superficial industry. Some might argue that superficiality is the whole point. Good luck to those going into it who have body image issues. Maybe it could actually help some deal with or possibly get over the issues. It is probably likelier that it will just give them more to fret over. It really just depends on how much focus they put on negative comments v positive.
Casualties are to be expected on the path to the *phobia- and *ism-free social justice utopia. Be "tolerant", or else. RIP, August Ames. My condolences to Kevin Moore and her family.
RIP August I never understood why people use twitter at all ... not to mention the other so called "social media". Whats social if people show their worst side to others ? here is a picture that i have to look a lot at lately and i was also shocked about Shyla not being around anymore ... Cube ... very very sad http://www.rame.net/faq/deadporn/ Edited by - cubesnake on 12/8/2017 5:04:08 AM
August Ames will remain forever in my memories and in the memories of everyone who really loved her! Porn actresses are people; they have an extremely difficult profession; they suffer, rejoice, love! They are actresses and give pleasure to other people! For August Ames only respect, love, pleasant memories! She deserves love!
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FlacFan Deactivated User
10088 Posts 8/15
Posted - Dec 8 2017 : 7:46AM
Sorry Zinnia you stuck up bitch, but choosing to lessen the risk buy not working with a crossover is not homophobia. You are the worst kind of "activist" because you label anyone who acts in a manner you disapprove of as an enemy. If I didn't know better, I'd say you were are republican, because this is straight out of their non-inclusive playbook.1} There are zero reports that she ran directly to the bathroom and tossed her cookies after shooting her 1st G/G/ scene. 2} She shot 58 more {at least} Girl/Girl scenes, Both of these FACTS make your own hateful rant inaccurate to say the least. And you know what, she has that right. You do not get to force your life into everyones face just so you can feel good. That isn't the way it works The only reason for a Trans person to announce to the world they are trans is for the attention. That's right, the attention. See few people actually give a shit, and at least 3/4's of the population wouldn't even know if you were trans if you didn't say anything. The whole big issue is that you want to be accepted as you feel you are, fine. But if you see yourself as a woman who was born a man, then wouldn't your successful transition heal that breach? The only reason to keep bringing it up is so people will give you a pat on the back to boost your self esteem. So take your hypocritical attitude and go fuck yourself. Edited by - FlacFan on 12/8/2017 7:59:03 AM
Death and suicide are always tragic, and my sincerest condolences to the friends and family of the young women we knew as August Ames. The discussion of online bullying is an important one, but I don't think it's one that should be defined by this, or any, suicide. I didn't follow the twitter war that led to this and I'm not following the aftermath, but knowing the nature of the internet and humanity, I'm going to guess that people are attacking those who criticized or bullied August with every bit of vitriol that she was attacked with. And the only difference right now is one of them hasn't committed suicide yet. But that's not how this should be defined. We should ideally be recognizing it BEFORE we get to that point. It also shouldn't be defined by our own perspectives, i.e. it's okay to criticize someone else with vitriol if I agree with that criticism. If we are calling attention to the aspect of social media that leads to public shaming, etc. we have to recognize when it is happening to someone whom we disagree with, or the discussion loses the value it needs. Social media is an untamed beast. It taps into and exposes the tyranny of the masses in a way that nothing that has come before it has. As much as it is a noble pursuit to try to get people to be kinder to one another online, there's always going to be a minority who will not cooperate (though hopefully enough kindness can counteract it). Still, one thing that needs to happen is to help those with emotional health issues deal with the cruelty of social media. This seems especially necessary in the world of porn, where many of the models who get involved seem to struggle with emotional health issues and social media is becoming more and more of a necessary marketing tool. I'm sure many women get into this industry with an incomplete picture of how challenging and cruel it can be. That seems to be a more direct way to address the issues this incident has raised than attempting to tame the beast (and for many, the latter will involve doing the same things to other people that they are trying to criticize).
The most dangerous part of the internet, mainly social media, is it's removal of any filtration system based on merit. You don't have to know anything about a topic in order to speak to others with contempt. In other words, a moron is on an even playing field with an expert.
Alot of credit goes to Eva Lovia. She got involved in this and stood up for August. I have a new found respect for her... not as a performer but a human.
Does this include blaming Jessica Drake for what happened and asking XBIZ to ban her? This should be a time of mourning. Instead of asking ourselves what we can do to improve and reflecting on the atrocity of depression (a silent disease), we look for culprits. Yes, a lot could be said and done differently, a lot could be prevented, yet here we are, encouraging the same logic of bullying.
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reapersupremacy Deactivated User
14 Posts 10/17
Posted - Dec 8 2017 : 11:32AM
The hypocrites that bullied her should all be banned from the industry. Jessica Drake,Alexis Monroe,etc. The people that bullied her had no leg to stand on when the last case of HIV was a crossover.So they can cyberbully someone for their choices but expect everyone be okay when they exclude people?
Don't confuse Liberal with Libertine. Many of the LGBQT folks who seek nothing more than power from attention and their most fervent supporters are nothing more than unrestrained Libertines, who hijack the Liberal ideals, much as Conservative Libertines have hijacked their own respective side under the banner of religion and social conservatism. There are good and decent LGBQT people who just want to go about their lives in peace and then there are those who want to shit on your face, kick your dog, light your car on fire, and take your lunch money, while demanding total respect and high praise for anything and everything they do without taking ANY responsibility for their actions. From what I've seen of the postings on twitter and elsewhere, Zinnia is definitely the second kind and they grow in power as the "new face" of LGBQT activism. To get back on topic, what August said and chose to do was not homophobic in the slightest. It's been well-documented in recent times that the gay/bi performers have been an ongoing source of infection incidents and prominent gay male talent has come forward and said that the testing procedures and personal practices on that side of the industry are not reliable and often are not enough, hence the movement towards verified on-set testing and greater vaccination for STIs. It wasn't that long ago that TJ Cummings and a few other known gay/bi performers who were spreading their STDs were national news headlines for a few weeks, but it seems as if the "head in the sand" mentality is as prevalent today as it was back then, all in the favor of "feel good" posturing.
Only heard the terrible news this afternoon and I am simply devastated. August has been one of my favourite performers in the industry for many years. She was always so fun and an absolute goddess! I'm so sad. RIP, August.
He's angry because he is a perfect example that proved August Ames right. He would have been fully rejected by her and for all the right reasons, this is his revolting response. I'm glad he's been pushed out of the mainstream porn.
That's not how a proper society works. When something bad is done to an innocent person we look for the culprits and punish them for what they've done. In this case not only are the culprits getting away with it in terms of the law but now you also want them to be free of rightful criticsm? Completely unreasonable.
No of course I dont agree with playing the blame game. I admire anyone who sticks up for a fellow human if they feel they are being bullied. At the end of the day the World lost a beautiful young woman.
JD comments are consistent and i don't have a reason to not to believe her. some people should stop attacking on social media. is one bad news is not enough.
Hey Jessica...you going to Alabama to help the Moore voter turnout? If not you should- you spin personal responsibility much like him. Do us all a favor and quit tweeting about August either directly or as you like to do-indirectly cha cha cha. Just keep looking at that magic mirror of yours and say "I was right"
Seriously? If you struggle with body image issues then porn is not the business for you. Every star no matter how gorgeous or in shape gets hate tweets calling them too skinny, too fat etc.
August worked unprotected with Cris Strokes & Seth Gamble-both of whom are crossovers, so has pretty much every US female porn actress as well. Her tweets made it clear that she wouldn't work with anybody who had done gay porn & that most actresses don't-this is patently wrong as those are not the only crossovers by any stretch of the imagination. Hard to think of many other than August who hasn't worked with Danny D for Brazzers or Digital Playground-he did gay porn in the UK as another example.
I believe neither Seth nor Cris has done gay porn in many years, so I think they are safe and sound at this point. Has the name of August's planned scene partner been released?
Wow, I only just saw this, shocked, such a tragedy, and for one so young too. :( Social media is a killer, it's given everyone a voice and it's abused to the fullest extent. I suffer from depression myself, and I absolutely refuse to go on Twitter or Facebook to avoid the cowards out there who post what they want and are oblivious to the consequences. I've seen some very candid interviews with pornstars over the past few years, it's quite astonishing how many of them get verbally abused just for being in the porn industry, and quite often they appear to be very fragile minded. In this case it's someone being hounded out for an opinion on what they do. Utter scumbags IMO. If you find someone offensive, ignore them. If they're harassing you, block them or report them. Anyone found harassing someone else should have their accounts removed. I know alot of these stars like to connect with their fans on social media, perhaps it's best they stick to something like OnlyFans.
Rightful criticism is one thing, holding them responsible for August's suicide is just an easy solution to a much more complex issue. Everyone has the right to disagree with Jessica as she did with August. But she didn't kill anyone.
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FlacFan Deactivated User
10088 Posts 8/15
Posted - Dec 8 2017 : 7:20PM
Of course depression and suicide is a much deeper issue, I deal with it every minute, it's why I isolate because the slightest thing can trigger a downward spiral. That said: Words have consequences. I am in no way saying that this happened, but, as happened with the texting teen case, if August left/had left a note naming certain people and that they pushed her over the edge, then that is involuntary manslaughter. People need to be held accountable for their words and actions. Keyboard warriors spout off with zero fear of comeuppance. That is not right.
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vrakenbaq Deactivated User
1889 Posts 9/09
Posted - Dec 8 2017 : 7:35PM
I wasn't her a fan as a non-anal performer, but a became a fan of her attitude. I wish I had the guts to say "Fuck You All" and leave this fucking dictatorship called life.
August Ames @ AEBN
Posted - Dec 7 2017 : 11:08PM
