Except that when a white woman says she's not attracted by black men which is pretty much the same as to be turned off by them, then they're labeled racist , "how can you say you're not attracted by ALL black men? You can't possibly say that, it's impossible, you're a racist , this statement is plainly racist" or variations on such tune
>> I think that's perfectly acceptable and may be nothing more than biological impulse.<< 85% of variation exist within a population - meaning there are more differences among Blacks, Asians, Whites, than there are differences between them. Race is a social construct, not biological.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Mar 21 2016 : 11:17AM
^^Well, the excuse does sound racist when someone doesn't qualify it at all (e.g. "I haven't been attracted to any of the black guys whom I've met"). Personally I could even understand someone saying "I'm not attracted to dark skin." I don't doubt that many people would be offended if a pornstar said that, but that at least is a specific physical characteristic. Lumping all of the world's black guys together indiscriminately sounds like a bit much. Anyway, the real problem with that excuse is that performers by and large don't only shoot with people to whom they are attracted. Because of that fact, even Nica Noelle, who has condemnded raceplay as "racist", has singled out the "not attracted" excuse as unbelievable. Edited by - misspornUSA on 3/21/2016 11:18:26 AM
The ones who think they're smart used to specifically call out the female performers that have worked with "unattractive" white male performers, and then ask why they could do that and then wouldn't work with any black male performers (the classic one was women who had worked with Ron Jeremy post 1990's or so). That being said, if a female performer were to present it as a reason, and proceed not to contradict it (i.e. I've seen female performers say it and then talk about how they'd love to fuck Drake or other popular musicians on social media), I'd just let it be.
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DiamondJackman Deactivated User
Straight From My Brown Balls, Using Good Pussy 501 Posts 10/15
Posted - Mar 21 2016 : 11:46AM
Yet you don't find ONE black female pornstar refusing to work with, or charge more to work with white men.
^ In Mireille Miller-Young's book, A TASTE FOR BROWN SUGAR, Marie Luv talks about her attempt to make a point in this regard: "Marie was so frustrated by what she saw as the unfairness of white women insisting on an 'interracial rate' that she decided to see if she could get away with charging more for having sex with white men. 'It kinda makes me not want to be in this business because you can't tell me that that's not racist. You are going to pay a white girl more with a black man? And I did a scene with two white men and I said to them, dead serious, "My interracial rate is going to be..." and they laughed at me. It was a fucking joke! But if I was Jenna Haze and I sat there and said that [would say], "Let me get my checkbook."' (250-251).
dude nobody is gonna pay more a black woman to do IR they don't have sales enough to be able to ask for more, they can barely work today, I'm pushing a lot of black girls I like such as Ana Foxxx, Ivy Sherwood , Chanel Heart and many others I don't seem to get much love for them around here, not even from black men, go figure
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DiamondJackman Deactivated User
Straight From My Brown Balls, Using Good Pussy 501 Posts 10/15
Posted - Mar 21 2016 : 4:51PM
Again I'll repeat, Yet you don't find ONE black female pornstar refusing to work with white men. This is in response to your claim that black women who are unattracted to white men, won't work with them. Name me these black women who have refused to work with white men.
^ it wasn't me who said that I merely replied to Melvyn:to which YOU replied this:So it's fine for any woman to say they're not attracted by a race or even any other race but when it comes to white women they're utterly racist? really? anyway as I said there's lack of work out there if they refuse to work with whites they're basically out of the business, most of the black owned companies are in struggle or out already, Some black directors quit also ( Alexander Devoe , Justin Slayer ) or are confined to lez porn (Diana Devoe) They just cannot afford to refuse iR and stay in the biz Edited by - LCF on 3/21/2016 5:05:13 PM
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DiamondJackman Deactivated User
Straight From My Brown Balls, Using Good Pussy 501 Posts 10/15
Posted - Mar 21 2016 : 6:05PM
^But but, many white stars who are new or underused aren't really in a position be demanded showcases, and high rates like Veronica Rain. Very few white performers will ever reach the point where they can do this.
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Mar 21 2016 : 9:14PM
I've never heard of a black female performer saying they are not attracted to white men either. Also agree that it is a shame that black female performers don't get the attention they deserve. I wonder if that is the product of assumptions about the 'average viewer' that could be faulty. I noticed that Mimefreak mentioned that his boss was under the impression it wasn't a good idea to include a black female performer on a DVD with non-black female performers. At the same time, requests for Brown Bunnies are very common on the Bang Bros thread. Edited by - BlackSix on 3/21/2016 9:17:39 PM
I think they are either delusional and think every pornstar is going to get a showcase if they hold out long enough, OR as somebody else pointed out(forget who) it's just another bullshit convenient excuse.
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Mar 21 2016 : 9:29PM
Well you never know, it probably makes sense to hold back at the beginning as it can take a while for a performer to break through. Jada did IR right away but took quite a while to become a superstar, it didn't happen right away like for Abella Danger for instance. Although with the apparently higher turnaround and far fewer regularly working performers these days one could argue you're either going to be a big success much sooner now or it isn't going to happen at all.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Mar 21 2016 : 9:46PM
We should distinguish between showcases and high rates. Blacked, which I regard as representing the new paradigm, has shot one early first IR after another, but we don't know that they're not paying out. We do know that the pornstars who shot their first IRs for Blacked obviously weren't interested in holding out for a showcase. On "Waiting to Shoot IR for a Bigger Pay Day" I used the example of Megan Rain, who likely would have been able to wait for a showcase if she was so inclined. Yet she didn't, because imo that has already become old fashioned thinking.
I agree with this. Not all black people look alike, just like not all white people, Asian people, etc do. It's why some of the women who say they are not attracted to black men when on social media can't stop harping about Drake, Will Smith, etc. MisspornUSA brought up some good points on it. They could indeed word what they say a bit better like, "I haven't been attracted to any black men I've personally met yet" or "I'm not usually attracted to dark skin" (which to be honest doesn't sound that good, but whatever). I had to alter the second statement because there are exceptions to every rule, at least IMO. Who's to say that a dark skinned Drake or Will Smith couldn't come along and be 'passable' for them? That and I also have a general preference for more fair-skinned women. Doesn't mean that I'm not attracted to any woman who isn't fair-skinned. Just the fact that I haven't met/seen all non-fair skinned women on Earth is enough for me to not make such absolute statements.
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DiamondJackman Deactivated User
Straight From My Brown Balls, Using Good Pussy 501 Posts 10/15
Posted - Mar 22 2016 : 4:06AM
^But the fact only non-black stars and white stars in particular, get that bargaining power, is very telling. How many black stars have had showcases?
^ I think that's beside the point. I have no idea how many black (female I presume?) stars have had showcases. There has been some, though. Off the top of my head Nyomi Banxxx and Skin Diamond have had showcases for Elegant Angel. I'm sure there's more. As far as bargaining power is concerned, there isn't enough black on black porn being made for a black female performer to sustain a career without shooting any WM/BF.
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Ben Mockridge Deactivated User
382 Posts 9/15
Posted - Mar 22 2016 : 4:50AM
The practice of paying white girl more to work with black guys may have a strong undercurrent of racism but that dosnt mean that the white girls taking the money are racist - they are just taking advantage of a known (racist) discrepancy in the porn business and maximising their return and thats just good sense. They have no broader responsibility than to themselves and if they can bargain for more money because the industry validates it then it would be foolish not to take the extra money.
^ I agree on everything except callings some girls like Jenna Ivory, Katrina Jade, etc foolish for not taking more money to shoot IR. There is nothing wrong with taking a stand on something one believes in. Money isn't everything and if a performer wants to pass on a bigger payday to shoot IR, then we should be applauding them - not criticizing them for not taking full advantage of racial discrepancies. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with a performer taking more money for doing IR. If the objective is to make as much money as one can possibly make regardless of any principals or beliefs in equality, then more power to them. They're the ones who have to pay their bills, so they should do it by any means necessary - if they are so inclined.
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Ben Mockridge Deactivated User
382 Posts 9/15
Posted - Mar 22 2016 : 5:20AM
^ Yeh i accept your point but re foolishness ; if theres more money being offered woudnt it make more sense to take the extra money and then give the extra money to the black guy or a black charity or something ?
^ The point of not taking extra money for shooting IR is in principal. Donating the extra money or giving it away to black people doesn't address the underlying issue and discrepancy. The more performers willing to take the same rate for IR that they do for non-IR, the more companies will see no need to offer a higher rate for IR. What you're suggesting doesn't actually address the issue and is too indirect of a response for those wanting to respond of course. Like I said, though, there's nothing wrong with taking the maximum amount of money one can take at any given time or maximizing ones financial potential. All I'm saying is everyone has different values and things they prioritize. I'm not saying that these women don't want to make money, I'm simply saying that it doesn't appear to be as important to them as it does for some other performers. There's nothing wrong or 'foolish' about either party.
Oh yeah ? theres's a number of new stars who never worked with blacked and probably never will even though they perfectly matched their target*, but you know what? They did IR from the beginning and probably earned less with their ten scenes that any blacked star with one , so ask me again why a new star would wait to do IR? Either wait for blacked and earn more with less effort , or to build their name and earn more for their first * Alice Green, Abbey Rain , Elektra Rose ,Melissa Moore Yhivi or Piper Perri for example and I'd add Leah Gotti to the list Edited by - LCF on 3/22/2016 9:33:45 AM
There are some high end performers who don't charge more but, then again they are already expensive to have , most of the Spieglers' don't charge extra AFAIK, Riley Reid said she doesn't or possibly her IR scene for Tushy but it was anal and it was the anal part being charged more rather than the IR side of the scene
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DiamondJackman Deactivated User
Straight From My Brown Balls, Using Good Pussy 501 Posts 10/15
Posted - Mar 22 2016 : 9:47AM
^^It's not believable per se, but even if there are black female performers who aren't necessarily attracted to white men, still work with them. You have white performers like Rachel Starr and Brandi Love that explicitly said that they are attracted to, or a least open to having sexual relations with black men. Then why not do it in front of the camera? What's the issue here? Edited by - Diamondjackman on 3/22/2016 9:48:04 AM
I absolutely concur some of the black performers around are not only stunningly beautiful but also wonderful performers , and with this I don't mean able to do the most acrobatic triple anal with somersault double BJ , I mean in the term of the arousing power they have while performing even the most vanilla of the scenes ,I wonder I many pay attention to the expression of the stars performing? Well I do, and this is why Ana Foxxx is my favourite performer currently
Both said they did have sex with black men in their personal life , the second at her swinging parties , don't know why they won't do that on screen. I don't know something intimate perhaps? For example some stars won't perform with their husband on screen , Jennifer Dark married to Mark Anthony was one, there's only one scene , they made it when they met, then they hooked up with each other and never perform together again.
Me too unless someone tags them with some name (i.e. racist) they don't deserve , if agirl fucks black men off screen and for whatever reason she wouldn't on screen , she can't be labeled as racist. Why is a woman demanded to do on screen every fucking thing she does in private?
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Mar 22 2016 : 6:53PM
^I don't think that we disagree. I was responding to DiamondJackman's question.
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Ben Mockridge Deactivated User
382 Posts 9/15
Posted - Mar 22 2016 : 7:21PM
MOD: Nope. Whore is not the acceptable word. The acceptable words you said you couldn't think of were actress or performer either would have worked. You are done trolling these forums. Edited by - flash on 3/22/2016 9:12:50 PM
You can fuck people of a certain race and still hold racist views about them. Would anyone argue that straight men can't be sexist? Edited by - joey numbers on 3/22/2016 8:17:38 PM
That has nothing to do with the fact that what people find attractive is largely if not almost exclusively biologically driven, and in no way does this conflict with that fact about genetic variation. Phenotypical differences are distinct enough that people still believe in these "social constructs" as biology. But take a very simple example of, let's say an Asian woman. Let's say she doesn't like guys with dark skin. You can say "but race is a social construct." Ok. So then what? Can't she just say she doesn't like dark skinned men? How do you think that would be received? Should she be slandered as a racist, or would you then stick up for her saying, well, 85% of genetic variation exists within races, therefore it's a social construct so that precludes her from being racist. However, when someone has a preference for the type of attribute or trait which we commonly associate with a race, then it becomes controversial. You can bet your bottom dollar there are many women from each "social construct" who are not attracted to men of a certain "social construct." You think you could deny that? Or you would insist that it's because of "social conditioning." But be mindful, I'm not even talking about 15% of any race. I think the percentage of women of any race who find any particular race, including their own, a general turn off, is probably fewer than 15%. It's probably not even 10%. I think 90% or maybe even more of women of any race would say race is not a deciding or determining factor, which is to say it's not a deal breaker in terms of what they find attractive. It may even be 95% of women who would say it's possible they could find a man of any given race to be attractive. Or go even higher. That's not the point. The point is that there are women, and men, who simply do not find the most common phenotypical traits of a given race, or social construct if you insist, to be attractive. And they have no more control over that than they do over their sexual orientation. It's just biology. The same thing that compels most men to like the traits in women that they like. I'm just saying you shouldn't judge someone's character by their biological design, especially on such trivial issues as their taste in men or women. It very well may be only 1 or 2 percent of women or men who are turned off by the men or women of some other race, or even their own. And that's how we get the Nicole Anistons or Rachel Starrs. I think it's unfair to keep grilling these stars, when there are various reasons that could explain their avoidance of IR. If it ultimately comes down to their personal taste or distaste, then so be it. Because we know the converse of this is also quite apparent, and no one seems to have any problem with it. There are women of a particular race who are especially attracted to a different race and proud to say so. Many women feel that way, and we know many men do to because men care less for what others think of their taste. But people don't criticize that, and if they do, then it's the critics who are labeled hateful, bigoted or racist. Plenty of talk shows have revealed this double standard. Isn't it ok if some white girls say they are only into black guys? Because, to suggest there's anything wrong with that would be racist, right? And we accept this type of preference, so why can't we accept if some person simply doesn't find other races attractive? To say there's something that has to be wrong with that is counter to actual tolerance.
You guys are ignoring marketing and demographics. It would be a really poor business decision for a black female pornstar to either avoid IR or alienate their fans. At least 70% of the porn audience out there is going to be white. So just because you don't see black females in porn avoiding IR, or just because you never heard any publicly state they find white guys unattractive, it doesn't mean they don't. The irony here is white females can exploit business practices to avoid IR (to our dismay), but black females are much more compelled to do IR, even if they are not attracted to white guys. The same thing with black male performers. It would be career suicide to avoid IR. Even if a brotha simply doesn't find white women attractive. Cuz guys gotta take what they can get to stay successful in porn, and black performers especially stand to gain WAY more by doing IR. The average black performer is very likely going to have more white fans than black. And many, if not most, of these fans would like to see them paired with white partners in scenes. Unfortunately for IR fans who also like some of the most popular stars like Alexis Texas or Christy Mack, white performers are not nearly as beholden to the IR market. I've been arguing in favor of what appears to be growing conventional wisdom, really the prevailing wisdom by 2016, that avoiding IR is just leaving money on the table, and the overall take is that stars like Miss Texas and Miss Mack stand much more to gain than to lose by availing themselves to IR, but not nearly as much to gain as black performers. But again I just want to stress that we need to be unemotional about this, and I say this as a major proponent of IR.
LMAO, no they wouldn't. They would be attacked by a few trolls or insecure peckerwoods on Twitter for a little while, but no legitimate or credible group would support that criticism. The only people who would truly be hurt by a black female saying they are not attracted to white men would be her white male fans. And I doubt that most of them would be all that motivated to verbally attack her. If Jada Fire tweeted to her 300k followers, she simply doesn't find white guys attractive, that would reach a huge audience, and many of the most devoted white fans would be crushed by that. But they wouldn't attack her. If they were real fans, they would respect her feelings and the truth, as long as she didn't say it in a way to deliberately demean them. So the context would be key in that hypothetical situation. Even if most of her 300k followers were white guys, I doubt she would lose most of them. There would be disappointment of course, and surely out of that many fans, some would be angry and critical. But she or any other black female pornstar would never have a reason to reveal that sentiment out of the blue. Those kinds of things typically don't come out unless a person is being pressed. So we shouldn't press them unless we want the truth, and we shouldn't seek that if you we handle it.
^^^It may have nothing to do with money or race. It can be as simple as the female performer isn't attracted to the current crop of black male performers. Physical and sexual attraction can be a huge deciding factor for what guys these women work with. I'm a black female and I personally find only one of the current crop of black male performers to be physically attractive and none to be sexually attractive. If I was performer, I honestly wouldn't be excited about doing scenes with any of them. That's isn't racist that just personal taste. Edited by - fanofman on 3/23/2016 10:28:31 AM Edited by - fanofman on 3/23/2016 10:39:46 AM
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DiamondJackman Deactivated User
Straight From My Brown Balls, Using Good Pussy 501 Posts 10/15
Posted - Mar 23 2016 : 11:48AM
^And who exactly is this 'one' black performer you're attracted to? Edited by - Diamondjackman on 5/4/2016 2:34:23 PM
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Mar 23 2016 : 3:15PM
^ and ^^ Yep, and numerous pornstars - female and male - have confirmed that. I don't know where anyone gets the idea that pornstars generally restrict themselves to working with people with whom they would have sex outside of work. Edited by - misspornUSA on 3/23/2016 3:16:18 PM
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Mar 23 2016 : 4:03PM
Not to further derail but if if what we find attractive is almost exclusively determined by biology how is it possible that within our own lifetimes we've seen the ideal body type 'most men' are attracted to go from Marilyn Monroe to Twiggy to today's skeletal fashion models? Why was homosexuality so common among ancient Greeks and Romans but not anymore than other Western nations in modern day? Do you really think the Greeks, Romans and Mongols were genetically homosexual but somehow aren't today? Most of your post is full of the pseduo-science known as 'evolutionary psychology.' It use to be called sociobiology until that term was discredited so they had to move the goal posts. This 'science' full of classic 'just-so' stories is a big hit with popular science writers and so the internet loves to gloam onto it and promote its unfounded speculations as 'fact' since wikipedia experts love to traffic in certainty. Of course bringing this up is pointless as you'll just respond with endless essays full of a bunch of 'facts' you found on the interwebs but I thought since no doubt the few who bothered to read your post smelled the scent of bullshit with your supposedly authoritative percentages of this and that, I'd post a reality check that can be confirmed by anyone who bothers to read some actual books of a variety of views from across the field. Please note I'm not going to debate this further, anyone interested in the well founded criticism of this 'field' can start (and only start as no one is has the definitive answer here) with Richard Lewontin's It Ain't Necessarily So if they want to actually engage with the issue beyond wiki battles on the net. I'm just tired of these kind of 'fact' filled posts popping up on the forum again and again.
Dirty Cop (All Her Luv) - review by Danielmayu33216
Posted - Mar 21 2016 : 4:56AM
