I wonder what would happen had the races been inverted Also one thing is racial play another one is racial slur and degrading talk It was the usual shit they put on FA but nobody knew it was FA , or maybe Rico knew but didn't know she didn't Edited by - LCF on 3/14/2018 11:06:22 AM
^ 'I wonder what would happen had the races been inverted' Nothing. Ghetto Gaggers has existed for years and I very much doubt none of the women to have appeared ever complained about being abused in those scenes.
Shadilay, I don't think you're going to be able to draw any larger conclusions here about how one race is getting the shaft over the other based on those signs. It cuts both ways at dogfart:
The difference is they like that term. That's why it is present in EVERY rap track ever. But If you like being called a cracker, fine. I don't. I think both terms should not be used.
^ I agree with you that both terms should not be used. All I was saying is that it's not like whites are getting a less fair shake than blacks in that context. And many of us black people don't like that term, especially when being used by white people, some (not all) rappers notwithstanding.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Mar 14 2018 : 6:09PM
^ and ^^ I think that those terms should be used if talents and directors consent to the use of those terms. What matters to me is that performers and consumers are consenting adults. Meanwhile, others would like the porn they dislike to be abolished. But why would a consumer try to vanish what they dislike from the industry, when they can simply choose to consume content that they like and not consume content that they don't?
^ As it appears some pornstars are tricked to do FA scenes without knowing and be verbally treated as trash to which they have to consent at the end of the scene. I know you like such things , but I doubt that even you would accept anything that it's not agreed in advance PS is good to see you back , If I may ask , what happened?I meant the racial slurs , I'm unfamiliar with ghetto gatters scenes but i seriously doubt they'd use the racial slurs they used with Leigh referred to black women
It went a lot worse than just a word, dogfart don't go further than that but as describedWhite Daddy? force them to worship the white greatness? Really?
Because we can't even escape from that shit. If you follow any pornstar you watch on Twitter they will retweet pictures and videos from Dogshit with white men being beat up or with a black dick on their face. That pisses me off. Then you block the site and the cucks send the same stuff to them and they retweet. That's why I said I know the sites will not end but I'm just saying that all this race stuff is dumb and was a part of the 2 shoots where the women were abused. And to the black guy: If you don't like it you should complain. Most black guys think it's cool to see those signs and see a white guy in the scene near the black guy's dick. I just think it's gay. I would never let a man touch me like that. If you wanna make a gay site just do it without this on the fence racial bullshit.
Newsflash, if you've ever looked inside Dogfarts comment sections, the majority of those people into that shit are white. And please stop trying to pass off what you think black guys like as fact. Hell you can look at the Dogfart thread and see that a lot of the people on this board don't even fuck with the cuck shit.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Mar 14 2018 : 8:26PM
I unequivocally support Leigh and Nikki, as well as Riley. Consent is key and adult performers have a right to a professional work environment. Saying that really is meaningless though, since nothing will change. Porn and sex work in general is too marginalized. As long as it's considered a world unto itself, the sort of shit that happened to Leigh, Riley and others will continue to happen. Maybe we'll hear about it a bit more often now, but what will that do? No systemic change will take place imo, not in the current atmosphere. I'm definitely not back. Just briefly visiting....
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Mar 14 2018 : 8:39PM
^^^It's unreasonable for you to expect pornstars to only shoot what you like for sites that you like. It's also unreasonable for you to demand that sites be shut down simply because you dislike them. You are not the only existing porn consumer. There are many porn consumers, and that means diverse tastes which generate a diverse demand that results in diverse work opportunities for pornstars. Porn sites that you dislike are going to exist, and performers will shoot for those sites. Why would that not be the case? I don't spend much time on pornstar Twitter because far too often I haven't liked what I've seen. That's my problem. The performers can express themselves how they want. If you're seeing tweets that you don't like, you're going to have to learn to accept that, ignore it, or move on, since it will never be the case that performers only tweet about shoots that you approve of.
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flip69 Deactivated User
118 Posts 9/06
Posted - Mar 14 2018 : 9:00PM
What does this picture have to do with the topic. How have you seen the video if it not has been released?
Yup. This. All the cuckold stuff satisfies a white man's fantasy. Not a black man's. (In general.) But now we're way off topic. We should really be addressing what seems to be the issue in this incident. Consent of one performer being violated by another, and performers possibly not being informed of the nature of the scene in advance.
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Mass Facialties Deactivated User
"Facialized Vol. 7" 2021 AVN Awards Winner: Best Oral Movie 9308 Posts 9/13
Posted - Mar 15 2018 : 12:18AM
I would say that if these perpetrators were tried for their alleged physical/sexual abuse in the court of law, found guilty and sentenced to jail time, that would have a great impact within the industry. I do believe if that happened, it would "scare straight" most, if not all, of the industry's (male) performers.
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flip69 Deactivated User
118 Posts 9/06
Posted - Mar 15 2018 : 5:29AM
Well Max Hardcore went to prison and it still goes on.
Porno movies, sexy videos, xxx. Adult DVD Talk at your service. 6409 Posts 11/99
Posted - Mar 15 2018 : 8:00AM
Max Hardcore went to prison on obscenity charges. This is not about producing material the courts may find obscene with their vague definition. This is not about race "play" in porn. This is about abusing performers on set. This is about a company banking on consumers jerking off to women being punched, forced to vomit, and pushed way past their boundaries. This is about lying to performers about what a scene entails. We can't just bury our heads in the sand and pretend that all porn sets are professional, that all behavior on set is consensual.
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FlacFan Deactivated User
10088 Posts 8/15
Posted - Mar 15 2018 : 9:17AM
I posted that because others were abused on set by her off-set abuser and it only came to light because Stoya had the fortitude to come forward, which led others to do the same. This series of events happens now and the man who inflicts the damage is no longer working for anyone but himself. You know, It's been written and said by feminists that porn objectifies women. That is inaccurate. A percentage of men already objectify women and see them as less or as property. This genre of porn is catering exactly to that demographic. Leigh told them of her limits mentally and physically and both of those were breached. There is only one way to get these idiots out of the business if that is what people want: Hurt the money. Don;t buy their porn. In any other line of work, OSHA is all over that industry of an equivalent type of infraction. However the overall view of those outside the industry, which ironically supports the view of the site idiots being discussed here, is that porn/sex workers are lesser people. So they don't look at it as seriously as they should, if they look at it at all.
I feel like, even though it may not seem connected at all, this story is connected to another that just came up: Ana Rose shoots her first BG scene for excogi.com. She goes to the job thinking it's just a BG, but when she gets there they try to pressure her to do anal. They offer more money. She confers with her agent, says no. Halfway through the scene, the male talent sticks it in her ass. She goes along because she's not really sure what to do; it's her first BG scene. she doesn't want to yell cut and ruin the scene or whatever. After, the male talent apologizes for putting it in her ass. The company only pays her the BG rate, which is $2000 less than what they offered to do anal that day. Now, on their twitter, they're advertising "Ana Rose's first anal scene!!!" Fucked, right? And do you guys see why I say it's kind of related? In either case, a female performer is misled about a scene by either male talent or director or both, and in either case, a female performer is forced to do something she did not consent to. This is not just a Rico Strong problem, or a Just Dave problem. There is an issue here. With a minimum of two companies. Throw in the ongoing lawsuits against girlsdoporn.com over similar behaviour and that's three companies. There are many great and ethical pornographers out there, I'm sure of it. But I have a feeling these stories aren't just highlighting "bad seeds", but rather a systemic issue in porn production.
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FlacFan Deactivated User
10088 Posts 8/15
Posted - Mar 16 2018 : 4:37AM
^ In that scenario, couldn't she sue them? They violated the terms of the deal. Also in that scenario, couldn't she have them jailed for rape, because it clearly was.
I'm kinda surprised Jada would say something like this. I guess I understand her wanting to try and defend someone she thinks of as a friend but she being a pornstar should understand more than most people that it's easy for a girl to get put in a position where they feel they need to go along with stuff they aren't comfortable. Sometimes they just don't want to get on the bad side of a director, they might be afraid of being labeled "difficult" and lose work, they might feel physically intimidated, they might really need money for that shoot, etc.,etc. Someone like Jada being a big star in the industry can get away with saying no with much less negative impact. Jada is a star with enough star power where directors would care about keeping her happy. She shoots on mostly legit sets where it simply wouldn't be in their best interest to do shady stuff. Jada also may have not been ever in a situation where she felt totally intimidated by the location, situation, and her co-star. I'd have to think that there are a lot of girls in porn if the found themselves in the same sort of scenario would've reacted the same way these victims did. It's obvious the guys making this porn had it well thought out how to manipulate the girls into going along with it despite going against their wishes.
That Ana Rose situation is so disgusting and by no means the first time I have heard of that kind of thing. Chris Strokes does it all the time according to talent and yet he still works in the industry. Noelle Easton is hardly an unknown, and she has openly talked about Strokes "trying to rape [her] asshole" while she hits him and cries and I guess nobody cares. It's up online for all to see. I am starting to feel the same way as you, killbill, and it is fucking depressing.
What I find most astounding about this case is that the Excogi guy(s) did it with an agency-represented performer. If they'd done the same thing with some random girl from Arizona nobody would likely ever know about it, and that they tried it this time tells me that they've done it (or something similar) successfully often enough that they honestly thought they would get away with it here, too. Actually, I guess they have got away with it, because these pseudo-amateur sites that are shot outside of California tend to fly sufficiently below the porn-public radar that they're unlikely to get the same bad press that the Strong/Just Dave incident has.
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damtan717 Deactivated User
11 Posts 11/17
Posted - Mar 16 2018 : 10:07PM
You didn't see the video in full. Yes, it was a rough shoot. The girl had the choice to leave at any time during the shoot, but she clearly states she stayed because she needed the "rent money." SHE STAYED BASED ON HER OWN CHOICE! And he brings up race because there are countless white on white facial abuse videos and no a damn soul said a thing, but as soon as its a black on white facial abuse scenario, then all hell breaks loose. This brings me back to my point that the current system of interracial pornography (race play, muh big dick, etcc.) is unhealthy. Black men need to be treated just like any other race. Plain and simple.
^Actually I did watch the video. The first part of your post you're trying to debate something I never even said anything about. And if you are going to address me, do it with your regular account, not the mask you're hiding behind to voice your anti black rhetoric. And don't come in this topic saying how black men need to be treated regularly and then go in the other one and insinuate that they are the bottom of the barrel talent that are only around when women need to make money.
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damtan717 Deactivated User
11 Posts 11/17
Posted - Mar 16 2018 : 11:01PM
What you say above about what I've said is 100% true. People just tend to be ignorant about it.
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Mass Facialties Deactivated User
"Facialized Vol. 7" 2021 AVN Awards Winner: Best Oral Movie 9308 Posts 9/13
Posted - Mar 17 2018 : 12:39AM
Unfortunately, I believe you are right. I fear that these "bait-and-switch" manipulative tactics are all too common. As if being a female performer in the porn biz isn't hard enough in the first place, you often have to worry about the director and the male talent pulling a fast one on you in the middle of a scene. I can still remember Belladonna recounting one of her experiences in dealing with this despicable practice in the 2013 porn documentary/interview film, Aroused. Not only is this kind of shit unfair, but when you see someone like her recount the experience, it's clear that this crap also psychologically scars these women. By the way, I never understood why some here on ADT despised Chris Strokes, but I get it now. I didn't know that he's been repeatedly accused of pulling this shit. I assumed that he wasn't liked simply because he is a pothead, I didn't realize he was committing heinous acts like this.
^^damtan, I'm pretty sure what you described is some light form of larceny. Even if we ignore the obvious sodomy and sexual assault, there was a breach of contract based on the details agreed upon prior to the shot on the other note, I used to like Strokes, but havent watched him in awhile because he has been real shady. There was the time he stormed out on August Ames(RIP) and his alleged first anal Liza Rowe scene which he has kept under wraps(based on the descriptions of the leaked trailers, it should be called first painful, tear-inducing, forceful rear-entry instead)
There was a whole thread practically devoted to him where fans of "unexpected anal" regarded him as a hero. Any suggestion that these scenes were problematic were met with hostility. The thread recently got shut down when it became explicitly clear that people were indeed talking about coerced or forced anal. And the fact you don't know about it is a real problem - not in terms of you, but in terms of how accepted this kind of thing is.
I think these discussions are crucial. In 1973, the Supreme Court established the so-called Miller test when judging what is obscene. The standard rested on "Community Standards". At the time, they hadn't anticipated the internet, and the intent was to recognize that the communities in San Francisco and rural Utah might have different standards of "obscene". It seems to me that it might be possible to establish "community standards" among porn consumers and producers. I'm not a member the S&M community, but I admire Kink.com, because the performers clearly give consent on camera. I could imagine the rest of the porn community establishing a similar set of norms. The performers are interviewed before and after the scene, and during the interviews they clearly state what they intend to do, what their boundaries are, and what their safe words might be. (The safe word would allow for spontaneity, and for the fantasy of the "unplanned [insert favorite sex act]". After the scene, they could discuss how they felt about the experience. I could see this becoming a "community standard" within the porn industry. If so, those producers that failed to follow these standards could be legitimately in violation of the Miller Test, and those producers acting within community norms wouldn't need to feel threatened by prosecution. Whether this particular idea has any legs, I think the porn industry needs to police itself, or it invites policing from outside. If the self-policing is done in public, then it will be harder to make unfair accusations against the industry as a whole.
^ The problem (and this has ended up being a problem at Kink and with some other companies) is that performers have and will lie during those after-scene interviews for fear that either they won't get paid if the scene gets scrapped, or that if they say something negative then they'll never get hired by that company again. One of the things that producers will never want to do, but really should be done, is basically extending the kill fee (a fee that a performer can get paid if the shoot doesn't happen due to things outside their control) to include having to stop the scene because things go to a place where the performer does not want to go, and making that fee something like 75% of what the scene rate was supposed to be. That way a performer can stop a scene if things get non-consensual without having to worry about if they're gonna get paid enough to make rent or not, and producers/directors will have a financial incentive to make sure things don't get out of hand on their sets. You'll still have the worry about whether the company will bring you back, but the truth is that that's a problem with the large contraction and conglomeration of the industry (where basically Mindgeek and a couple other companies are responsible for most of the mainstream shoots in the industry) and is better solved by the democratization of content production enabled by things like Clips4Sale or ManyVids or even OnlyFans. In the end, right now, if a woman were to ask me about getting into the industry, I'd tell her to stay away from the mainstream LA/Vegas/Miami part of the industry and try to build up a fanbase camming and on social media, and even after that only use mainstream scenes as promotion to get your name out there to sell your own content in some way.
I'm kinda shocked that this kind of thing can still happen today to big time performers. Whoever orchestrated this got some balls. Maybe they thought they could get away with it using a loophole but I think now that a big name performer who was physically responsible for the assault might get blackballed, it can put a stop to this in the future.
^I agree with the stay away from the mainstream part. One thing that hasn't been discussed is blackballing women who speak out. Leigh Raven has gotten a lot of public Twitter support from fans and other female performers. However, I haven't seen a lot from male performers or male producers/directors. Will she have a hard time getting booked for b/g scenes in the future? Edited by - fanofman on 3/17/2018 8:48:08 PM
^ Your point about Mindgeek and consolidation is well-taken. I still think it might be worthwhile to discuss what "community standards" within the porn industry might be. These could include standards on what might be an appropriate kill fee at different stages in the production. The performers (and their agents/lawyers) are in a better place to work out these questions than I am. I can imagine a scenario in which a performers' guild (or some such body) has a role in determining what the standards might be. I know that the actual work of herding cats can be quite difficult, but I still think it is possible to develop a set of standards and for the community and to enforce them. As for Mindgeek: We're talking about issues of abuse on set. I have the sense that Mindgeek has a monopolistic business model that involves making their competitors product available for free. While this is a despicable business practice, I have the sense that their sets are professionally run. They have an interest in avoiding prosecution for obscenity, and could be any ally in the effort to protect performers from being raped. Still, to the degree that the process of developing community standards might require the performers to come together with a single voice, then the process might give rise to an organization that could negotiate with Mindgeek. Like I said: I'm just a fan. But I think the discussion is important. Edited because there were several comments added while I was typing. Edited by - cumminglinguist on 3/17/2018 9:32:02 PM
lol man, who the fuck do you think is subscribing to these sites? You think Dogfart and other white-run sites like Facial Abuse and GHETTO Abuse are doing it because fuck white people? Get real. it's a majority of white paying customers who have all these fucked up fetishes, including all this cuck garbage. It's supply and demand to the lowest common denominator. That's where a lot of porn is right now. And Trump won because Rural America is racist, xenophobic, and ignorant as all fuck, all the while clinging to white Jesus and their guns. Trump's base is practically a cult at this point.
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realtip Deactivated User
2301 Posts 6/04
Posted - Mar 17 2018 : 10:07PM
I wonder, What if this type of logic worked this way in all other situations? For example, I have people come to my house to buy my furniture and belongings. I sell my belongings to them. I give a written receipt and statement proving that I sold the items to them. I am recorded on video both before and after the sale explicitly saying that I agreed to allow these people to come into my house and buy the stuff I sold to them. But then, the next day, I change my mind, or people tell me that I shouldn't have sold my belongings. So I then go to everyone who will listen and say that I was robbed; that I was coerced into selling my belongings; that I felt like I was unable to refuse to sell my belongings, etc. Would anyone take me seriously? I doubt it. But apparently, we live in a day and time where even with written and video evidence of explicit consent, a girl can still turn around and claim "rape" or "abuse." And, because anyone with a vagina is apparently incapable of lying nowadays, we must all believe her. What an insane world this has become.
Realtip, someday you will have to explain to us why you hate women so much.
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realtip Deactivated User
2301 Posts 6/04
Posted - Mar 17 2018 : 10:28PM
Right, because anyone who questions a woman's veracity must therefore hate women. I know that's the type of guilt-trip thinking that we're all supposed to just shut up and accept now. But I haven't drunk the Kool-Aid yet.
In addition to this, Just Dave directed for Brazzers for a year or two, and as has been mentioned, either did actual PSP scenes or PSP-like scenes for them.
The thing that you (and most people who try to make this type of argument) are missing is that there really isn't an incentive to lying. At best, they can garner some sympathy, but many times things like this are either forgotten about quickly or completely ignored, and even ignoring that this is probably gonna result in less shoots for Leigh and Riley, not more. For me to immediately jump to "this person is lying", I have to see a clear incentive for them to lie, and there isn't one here (and, again, in most cases of women says they've been assaulted).
Again, this is from a different company, but below are texts sent from the owner of a porn website to a new female performer that recently worked for him. If that's reflective of the way many pornographers feel about talent, then it's no wonder abuse/exploitation happens without fear of reprisal. Images taken from this tweet.
^ If anyone ever wondered why so many performers quit after a month or two (even if they are getting booked), it's because this and the Ana Rose stuff is the type of shit you have to put up with as a new performer. It can get better if you stick around and build up a good rep, but you have to have some really thick skin to even be able to get that far.
Leigh Raven @ AEBN
Posted - Mar 14 2018 : 10:28AM
Dogshit
