^ No, I would sue the store for misconduct. This is essentially abuse in the work place. However the studios have no fear because the "normal" world considers performers to be lesser people because of their job. Were this to happen in a typical 9 to 5, they would be investigated, however due to what I just stated, these allegations aren't taken seriously and the risk of blackballing is too high for them to go through with a complaint. As you stated, were a performer to halt the scene because they went too far, the studios are under no obligation to pay them because it is the performer that halted the scene. Don't you get it? It's the perfect Catch-22. They can go too far knowing that if it gets shut down, they don;t have to pay them, while at the same time knowing the girls most likely won't halt the scene because they won't get paid and due to the threat of being blackballed. IMO, a lot of this goes away if they are paid half up front, half on completion of the scene. If a girl flakes, that would get out and her bookings would dry up. If the stunt dick violates the scene, that's on the studio and they should have to pay her full rate. I say it again, Boycott any studio that books abusers of any gender. Boycott studios the engage in this behavior. Want things to change? Hurt the money. Do I expect my stand to hurt them? Of course not. However I can watch with a clear head knowing I don't support assholes. If you support the studios that film this genre, and/or support ANY studio that books people with abuse and/or assault histories, you support abuse of performers in the porn industry. If you can watch abusers and/or studios that shoot and/or enable abuse and not feel bad about it, we have nothing more to discuss. Yes, it really is that black and white.
She filed a police claim for sexual assault Let's define sexual assault at its basis ,it is non consensual sex , it could also be a single act during consensual sex who goes more than what's implied or told in advance You said:basically you say she's not lying but she gave consent You can't have this both ways , she either gave consent or didn't , if she did WILLFULLY then there's no sexual assault , if she did under the threat of not being paid or under duresse afraid of more violence , then such consent is pure bullshit it's basically extorted. if she's not lying and didn't gave consent then it's assault. We also should bear in mind that she didn't know it was a FA scene, she wouldn't even have accepted such a scene in the first place Also I may consent to rough sex but not abusive sex what she exactly consented to BY HER OWN WILL aka prior of finding out what it was during the scene when the male talent went very hard on her under instructions
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realtip Deactivated User
2301 Posts 6/04
Posted - Mar 27 2018 : 9:01PM
To the contrary, it works the same way. Think of it this way. Let's say you are a contractor. You have entered into a contract to renovate the inside of a building. The owner of the building has agreed to compensate you an agreed price upon completion of the job. You hire a professional worker to complete the job, also agreeing to pay him upon completion of the job, but he quits halfway through because he doesn't like the job anymore, which means forfeiting any remaining payment. You know that if the job if not complete, or is not complete to the building owner's satisfaction, then you will not be paid, per the contract. This means that if you want to be paid, then you have to hire someone else to finish the job, which might also mean having to start from the beginning, which may take more time, which is also an inconvenience to you as the contractor. In such a case, are you still going to feel obligated to pay the first worker who quit even though he didn't finish the job? Are you going to give him positive recommendations in the future, or encourage other people to hire him? Most people would not. People seem to easily forget that the people who produce porn are also running a business. This is their livelihood. In the analogy that I just gave, the production company would be the owner, the director would be the contractor, and the performers (and crew) are the employees. If Porn Company XYZ has hired Just Dave to shoot a scene, but Just Dave can't shoot that scene because his employee (the performer) has quit in the middle of it, then why should he have to pay her? Also, keep in mind that he doesn't get paid either if the scene is not shot. That wouldn't work in any other industry, so it's ridiculous to expect porn directors to do it.Where do they do that? In what other profession do you get paid before you do a job? I wish I could do that with my job. What's to stop her from just taking the first half of the money and dipping out, leaving the director, crew, and other performers in the lurch to try to find someone else to replace her? The responsible and adult thing to do would be to just not agree to shoot the scene in the first place and save everyone the trouble. If you agree and don't finish, then you don't get paid. That's not an assault or threat. That's just professionalism.
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FlacFan Deactivated User
10088 Posts 8/15
Posted - Mar 27 2018 : 10:58PM
^ You are completely overlooking, repeatedly it seems, that the stunt dick and the director went beyond the agreed on scene situation, essentially altering the contract without consent before engaging in the behavior. On a construction site, payments are mad at specific times/dates during the construction process. That said, and using your scenario, it would be the same as a contractor agreeing to provide all the necessary tools then, half way through the job, saying that they also need this other thing installed to make it work right. Well guess what? That is subject to negotiation and the NLRB/union would intervene if it wasn't handled properly. However those don't really exist for porn workers, so they are stuck. Don't you get it, it's a rigged system. If you support ANY studio that books people with abuse histories, you support abuse in porn. Yes, It Is That Black And White. Edited by - FlacFan on 3/27/2018 11:00:27 PM
Here's another example of the lack of respect for talent displayed by some pornographers. This isn't someone trying to push around a newbie hoping they won't know better. This is someone assuming they can treat an experienced performer poorly and get away with it. [Tweet is no longer available]
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FlacFan Deactivated User
10088 Posts 8/15
Posted - Mar 28 2018 : 9:50PM
^ Exactly. They feel entitled. Now Alex, sadly will likely find her bookings drying up. Porn had a chance to bring this all out 2 years ago and chose to ignore it.
This is all so crazy. The industry is built on the backs of women. Wouldn't it just make sense to treat them respectfully so they'll want to keep working for them? Wouldn't it benefit everyone from the producers of porn, the girls, and the fans if the girls are treated right and feel safe and happy working with most of the directors and talent out there? This is all simply going to get worse because every time abuse on a set happens with no consequences it just shows others they can get away with it.
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Maxxx Stirner Deactivated User
319 Posts 11/14
Posted - Mar 29 2018 : 12:21PM
The above are all reasons why this industry needs an institutional and political revolution.
You can say this about any industry. Why dont the record labels pay the artists? Why are writers in Hollywood treated terribly? Why do factory owners dispose of their workers? Realistically all the people in power are there because of the workers but most people unfortunately are replaceable because others will gladly take their place.
^ So? The food smells rotten , let's eat it nonetheless , is that what you mean? The whole point of this thread is to find a way to change this.
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FlacFan Deactivated User
10088 Posts 8/15
Posted - Apr 2 2018 : 1:50PM
^ Ding! "Look others will take your place in the abuse factory, so do it or get out" It's the old "She was asking for it" defense, dressed in new clothes. If you support ANY studio that shoots like this and/or books people with abuse histories, you support abuse in porn. Yes, It Is That Black And White. Edited by - FlacFan on 4/2/2018 1:51:17 PM
http://mikesouth.com/industry/everything-you-know-about-porn-star-leigh-ravens-charges-of-on-set-abuse-is-wrong-we-have-the-video-22427/ It's slanted, but also makes a great point... If the performer pantomimes a consenting lover of rough sex, even to the point of being relaxed, laughing etc. (inbetween takes) how can the producers be blamed. Legally, it doesn't seem like agreed upon boundaries were crossed. Some performative rough sex will (should?) look indistinguishable from actual distressing scenes. You have to respect the verbal consent and using the cut or slow scenes verbal or non verbal cues. or you're the irresponsible performer. I'm sad that there is a power imbalance and with endless new girls, many not working enough, this will remain the case. But maybe onlyfans, camming etc should be what women who won't stick to their boundaries on set gravitate to. Ps: Raven would be a little more believable if she didn't cash her $1000 check.
^ That's why I've posted the things I have in this thread: to point out that abuse of talent isn't something that affects only the mainstream - porn has to clean up its act too.
In this case, she agreed to rough b/g, vomit ahead of time. She says he hit her way to hard to start the scene, etc... How can he know that it was too hard? Different performers are proud to give really rough performances. If upon have boundaries crossed, laughter and acting like everything is cool for the next 6 hrs is an instinctive reaction, then it could be argued that SHE is the abuser and dangerous person. If you can say Rico is playing a role, possibly he doesn't want cause any distress, and her NOT allowing him to know that real distress was occurring is abusive, even if we don't get into her accusations. Show me where on the 3hr tape she indicates there's any sort of issue?
Those people are scum GOP shills on the South website, and their verbiage shows it. Shit like Rico has been around forever, she's 100 scenes new are all **crap** arguments for the producers side... They are spinning stupid narratives about blaming Nikki Hearts. But, at Raven's core statement, she disassociated as soon as she was called a name, started laughing and then got hit, and started laughing more. From then on, she claims all her actions were to get through and hide her distress... So she never outwardly shows or speaks up for her internal boundaries being violated... Maybe this is the misogyny in me but this seems like basic regret sex and the female mind tendency to easily "reconstruct" events to whatever represents her as a victim, but still hero. I've dated for a while and been divorced, so my data is purely from seeing actual evidence that this is common enough in women. Men are also big users of rationalization for evil decisions, they just don't do the regret sex/victim thing as much.
^ Then who is the real danger??? The persons who aren't allowed to know the "real" situation or the one hiding the "rape/assault" by affirmatively consenting and getting paid for it.
At 33:00 you can hear Rico saying during a break: That her laughing from getting slapped was maybe too much and did he need to punch her in the face, or her a wire hanger (intended as joke, no doubt) He says that she should act more scared... She shows off her old cane marks indicating she's someone who likes pain and it that may be why the blows are like nothing to her and she's laughing. She part of the conversation, but only in a way that reinforces the idea that she is the one who is being untruthful and dangerous. Before that there is a lot of director talking to Rico about more face slapping, which she should have asserted herself as a performer and put limits on the strength and frequency etc.
I woke up today and everything is still everything! 403 Posts 1/09
Posted - Apr 13 2018 : 12:46PM
I found out about this yesterday form the UK online paper The Mirror. They mention Dave and Brazzers.....Rico Strong's name never came up. Isn't that interesting? VDRLvr
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FlacFan Deactivated User
10088 Posts 8/15
Posted - Apr 13 2018 : 1:15PM
Assuming that the tape is not edited, Leigh and/or Nikki would seem to have been untruthful. It's an extreme shoot, to be sure, and not my type of porn at all. That said, again based on the video being whole, Leigh either remembers things out of sequence or is stating things falsely on purpose, because parts of her timeline doesn't match the video. They did, however, go to extreme lengths to cover their ass about the race play and type of scene it was so there is an angle there. Leigh may have felt misled. Edited by - FlacFan on 4/13/2018 1:17:36 PM
^ You rushed to judgement not only of the performer/company, but anyone who thought more evidence was needed. You accused entire fan bases of enabling/encouraging abuse. Even if there are parts removed that make Producers look bad... Fundamentally, the accusers are saying the producers should have know better, even though producers are on record asking for more of a scared and hurt reaction. All parties agree at no time was any verbal indication of a problem, and seem to agree that she could have verbally stopped the shoot at anytime.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Apr 13 2018 : 4:27PM
So far I've only watched the first twenty minutes of the video. I'm not sure when I'll make the time to watch the rest. The only thing I'll say so far is that to the extent that Leigh's account isn't supported by the video evidence, why should Nikki be blamed for believing her wife? It's being assumed that Nikki came up with the allegations, even though it seems that between herself and Leigh it was Nikki who was friendlier with Rico. If she liked Rico, don't her actions make more sense if she believes that her wife has been assaulted? It's presumptuous to go after Nikki and theorize that she concocted Leigh's allegations. In Just Dave's statement, he mentions that Rico, Nikki, and Leigh spent time in a hotel room paid for by one of Nikki's clients. Why even mention that a client paid for the room? He's jumping the gun by trying to paint Nikki as some sort of a devious person imo.
Rico grabs Raven to help him get ready for the jerk to pop and basically she acts his own personal fuck doll 2:28:00 I'm super into the footage, because A) it's totally BTS and she's doing a courtesy Fuck for about 10 min. She does only what he likes and demands which is deep kissing and her pulling in his nipples like a monster. B) she's acting like a submissive fantasy, and the wide shot shows off her banging body C) by putting her half ass untrue stories out there she goes way up on the deranged scaled and TBH that's super erotic as a fantasy, esp if I'm not the one being falsely accused or attacked D) the camera guy wants to grab some stills and Rico pulls her head so she can't comply... it's for his benefit only (and presumably the money shot) I mean it's a life lesson not to stick your dick in crazy, but that doesn't mean it doesn't feel awesome.... TBH, that BTS is better than 99% of porn IMO. Edited by - Tacobowling on 4/13/2018 4:49:03 PM Edited by - Tacobowling on 4/13/2018 4:50:09 PM
I don't know what went down, but thought I would mention that it has been proven that victims of assault often remember things out of order and often contradict themselves. This is part of trauma. Several women over the years have been called liars because their stories didn't make sense only for DNA and other forms of evidence to prove they were indeed telling the truth.
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FlacFan Deactivated User
10088 Posts 8/15
Posted - Apr 13 2018 : 6:40PM
^ Agreed. It was why I said she may be remembering differently. I probably should have put that in the first sentence.
^ Truth is she was assualted, and AFAIK in the US you can't ever consent to assault. So as soon she was hit in the face that was assault(battery) with witnesses and tape. It seems accepted that these would be difficult to prosecute, but the laws are there. She could possibly shut down every piece of porn with "impact" play. You people don't get a pass for ignoring where Leigh say the consent violations start. For her they start when she was called a "stupid white bitch" and when She was hit so hard she saw stars. By her own claim, that's when she disassociated, and was no longer able to assert any words or actions on her own behalf. Whether or not that's true, it makes her extremely dangerous and sadly, only the stupidest producers would hire her or her wife.
You react to factual points with name calling, not unlike how you accused the Producers/talent of horrific abuse and the fan base as enablers. I'm sure that works out fine for you.
Let me guess , they do something that wasn't agreed in advance and then since she went through it and complained afterwards she's the dangerous one? and of course her wife as well. Why not all of friends and family then? Does she have any friend? PS I've yet to see the footage it isn't working , I'll try to figure out why Edited by - LCF on 4/14/2018 9:52:43 AM
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FlacFan Deactivated User
10088 Posts 8/15
Posted - Apr 14 2018 : 10:14AM
^ In his defense, I think he means that if she feels wronged at all, she will complain, and that may make her too dangerous to hire. That isn't a wrong thought process in this scenario. I think her boundries were crossed, maybe for the first time and she didn't know how to react, that said, her version of events is at times not in sync with what is on the video. However, as GGG has stated, rape and violence victims very often have memory issues about the events of the assault.. I would apologize to the thread for any harsh statements, but my default is always going to be that I believe the girls. In this case, i spoke out of turn. Edited by - FlacFan on 4/14/2018 10:16:18 AM
^ My point about being the couple being dangerous is they are saying that in this case the producers were responsible for any duress she went through because they should have known she wasn't ok. They also say that they should have pantomimed the face slapping. Producers asked for her reactions to be more hurt and scared, and specifically the laughing when hit was not what they expected. 33:00 Raven even apologizes for laughing during a break. Problem is, according to her account, she disassociated before any sexual contact, and went into protection mode... AT THE VERY FIRST FEW SECONDS OF THE SCENE. As a performer she owes other people there to yell cut if she can't be present enough to verbally stop any non consensual behavior. If they ask the to act hurt and scared, how can they possibly tell if she in genuine duress? There's nothing in the video that indicates she wasn't fully aware of the range content they were filming, it didn't step past what the pre consent filming notification indicates, and she doesn't actually ever claim it does.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Apr 14 2018 : 2:37PM
^I think that Jada Stevens was trying to make the same point, that if you are someone who is unable or unwilling to articulate your sexual boundaries then maybe you shouldn't be doing porn. It's a good point, and it's pretty much what I tell BDSM newbies. That said, an experienced scene partner and director, like an experienced dom or domme, should know that they need to check in throughout a scene. It's a shared responsibility. I haven't watched the entire video yet so I don't know how much of what I wrote, if any, is applicable to Dave, Rico, and Leigh. As for Nikki, she came in after the fact, and IF she is just reacting to what her wife told her I don't see why she should be blamed. Neither, frankly, should Jada have been blamed for believing her friend who she's known for years.
^3 It isn't just a matter of being vocal but being vocal during the scene not afterwards on social media. If I were a producer or male performer, I wouldn't hire and/or work with any of these women. Rico Strong hasn't been getting too much work in the last year. An occasional DP scene for JJV or group scene for Dogfart. His career is pretty much done after this episode. Edited by - fanofman on 4/14/2018 3:11:40 PM Edited by - fanofman on 4/14/2018 3:40:19 PM
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Apr 14 2018 : 4:37PM
At this point, I don't think that Nikki deserves any backlash. As far as I know, she hasn't done anything to indicate that she would behave the way her wife did if she were uncomfortable on set. I doubt that either Dave or Rico would just shrug if their significant others told them that they were assaulted. If Nikki's actions are simply a response to what her wife told her, what she did isn't unreasonable and it shouldn't impugn her reputation as a performer. Edited by - misspornUSA on 4/14/2018 4:37:46 PM
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Apr 14 2018 : 4:56PM
Following that logic, we should still support Jackie of "A Rape on Campus" infamy because she spoke her truth ("I stand by the account I gave Rolling Stone. I believed it to be true at the time.") and Sabrina Erdely should probably have received an award. Edited by - misspornUSA on 4/14/2018 4:58:41 PM Edited by - misspornUSA on 4/14/2018 5:00:57 PM
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Porn Scout Deactivated User
3735 Posts 10/02
Posted - Apr 14 2018 : 7:21PM
I watched the entire video, both Leigh and Riley talking about what happened to them. Broadly speaking, it's difficult to watch the video and somehow conclude that it's bullshit. There's enough detail and similarity of experience in both narratives, that I think any reasonable person would come to the conclusion that the actions taken in these shoots were abusive and most likely went beyond the limits the performers and production staff discussed and agreed to ahead of time. At the same time, I think it's incredibly naive for them to think that there wouldn't be consequences to releasing this video, even if they're in the right. From the perspective of the rest of the industry, why take a chance when there are so many other female performers to choose from? This is an industry that is based completely on objectification of women. Misogyny is built in. It's a feature, not a bug. That's what we're paying for. At the end of the day, I don't think anything can be proved in terms of criminal wrongdoing.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Apr 14 2018 : 7:58PM
^Did you watch the unedited scene?
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FlacFan Deactivated User
10088 Posts 8/15
Posted - Apr 14 2018 : 8:21PM
I don't see how you can hold it against Nikki. Think about it this way, because it's the same scenario: You pick your wife or significant other up from work, clearly distraught and traumatized. Would you do any less to get her story heard and to have her get some justice?
