^ It's not that genX and baby boom era women were pushovers as much that those women did not have high speed internet video social media counter weaponization. I think we are seeing a legitimate correction to generations of male abuse. What I see from Raven is a brave face more then anything. The Ana Rose situation comes to mind. As to agents most agents suck at the finer points of female consensual preferences. They are worse then agents in other businesses and there is not a proper male female balance. Mark Speigler is highly preferable but he's the exception.
^^ [Tweet is no longer available] Twitter account @MikeSouthXXX that has been talking about this situation is supposedly managed by Kelli Roberts who writes articles for that site [Tweet is no longer available] [Tweet is no longer available] Another author posted this article The Question About Consent Leigh Raven and Her Boosters Cannot Answer
^I think it's hilarious that she goes off on liars as she's posing as Mike South.
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local oaf Deactivated User
99 Posts 1/18
Posted - Apr 27 2018 : 1:12PM
^ An untrustworthy source pretending to be another notable untrustworthy source. Good grief. It's no wonder all of this stuff gets so convoluted. If you're inclined to lecture a performer on how to deal with stuff like this through "proper channels," seriously ask yourself if you think anything like that actually exists.
If that first slap by Rico was too hard, she should have said so. She already confirmed that she understood she could object with anything, not just a safe word, but any call to cease the action, e.g. "stop" "no" "cut" etc. Laughing and playing along isn't going to indicate to them that she's "severely hurt." I've been in some brutal fights. Not once did I observe someone being seriously struck and laugh about it immediately after. This seems like it will end up a nothing burger. I was skeptical as to the defense put on on the MikeSouth site, and I still wonder if the director of this scene could have edited out something more severe or actionable, but then it doesn't seem like she mentioned it. What is this business about eating apples? Did they force her to eat apples? On the other hand, as a standard for BDSM shouldn't the performers do some preliminary testing to gauge the sub's threshold? Instead of socking someone with a moderate power slap, it should be on the lighter end, and work your way up. That's the professionalism I think some might expect. As for the race-play stuff, this is just absurd. She consented with amusement. What is ironic is that what she objected to dehumanizes whites (denigrating, racially charged epithet at blacks' expense), but what she accepted dehumanizes blacks (vengefully charged epithets at whites' expense). When the n-word is used, it is not the subject of abuse whose dignity has been sacrificed. It is the person using the pejorative who has lost dignity and is consequently vilified. But this concept is probably too advanced for impressionable minds still figuring things out in the world. I cut her slack for that. She is probably correct to assume that the mob is far too unintelligent to comprehend that if she was using a racial epithet in a porno that it was most probably addressed and agreed upon by all parties involved, at least as within bounds, if not prompted by the men in charge. People may not like him, but Rico Strong has been in this biz for over 10 years. That's plenty of time to develop a bad reputation which has to affect more than a couple people given that he's worked with literally hundreds. And not everybody is going to get along, no matter who you are. I want to believe they could always be smarter about this process. Unless they are hiding evidence by editing/omission (for which they should be convicted as felons), the best thing I would do is just put a female in charge. Maitresse Madeline can't be the only competent female director for BDSM. There's gotta be lots more women who would enjoy the opportunity to direct stuff like this. Put them in charge.
do you think it's a good thing to be falsely accused of sexual assault? For what I know she's working and he's not, and she is the liar. It's as shameful as if there was a real sexual assault and nobody would make anything. I think that Rico Strong should sue her. This is the dark side of #metoo.
The world's tiniest violin is playing somewhere. Producers are choosing not to hire him & that's their call. And no, they're not being hounded by #metoo vigilantes (these types of aspersions are really grotesque). If that were the case I wouldn't have logged into XEmpire this week to find an update of James Deen fucking Kenna James.
^ Exactly. And weren't we just talking about the women involved being blacklisted? It's really telling about a person's character if their go-to move is to blame a movement intended to get justice for very real violence and discrimination. "This is the sinister result of BLM/MeToo/insert movement that white men feel encroaches on their right to do whatever the fuck they please." No, it's not.
Yeah James seen seems to have gotten a total pass from industry . Still shoots with a ton of females and big companies, why not Rico? I wonder what the difference is?
^ I think people dropped James Deen in the immediate aftermath, and then gradually as the story started to dissipate the companies began hiring him again. I'm sure Rico will see work picking up before long. Even Marc Wallice, who hid his HIV+ status and infected a number of women, managed to come back to the industry after a break.
mmm, do you really believe that one of the most famous performers, who has always been present in thousand of scenes is not working anymore just because producers suddenly just prefer someone else? A very bizarre coincidence.
I'm not blaming that, at all. I've probably used the wrong words. But the fact that a woman who is ruining the life of a performer telling lies (and there's the evidence of that on video) is working and that performer has been ostracized is something that is not acceptable at all.
this is not an excuse for James Deen but in his case a difference was that there wasn't any evidence. So probably a lot of performers and producers didn't believe the stories. In this case we have the footage that tells that what she said is just false. So it's even more incredible that she's not been banned from the industry, and that he's not working. It's like that we are passed from a phase where women didn't say what happened to them even if they were victims of assault to another one where women are the victims even when there's the evidence they are making false accusations. Edited by - leatherface on 5/4/2018 12:34:43 PM
^James Deen's career took a big hit. He mostly produces his own content (analized.com and jamesdeenproductions.com). Only a handful of companies (archangel, pornfidelity, eroticax, dogfart, bang.com) hire him. What saved him is he apparently had/has the resources to hire talent and produce his own content. Abella Danger is also a big supporter of his and shoots with him regularly. Rico Strong doesn't seem to have the resources and/or the level of support from directors or top girls in the industry.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - May 4 2018 : 4:10PM
Although I believe that there was a failure of communication on both sides, Rico and Just Dave are more experienced than Leigh, and so they are more accountable for what happened. If anyone shouldn't be penalized for what transpired, it's Nikki Hearts. Of course she's supporting her wife. How did people expect her to react? If Mick Blue had been in her place and taken action if Anikka Albrite had claimed sexual assault, would Mick have received the backlash from producers that Nikki apparently has? I doubt it. If producers no longer want to work with Nikki that sounds like sexism to me.
I was gonna let this go, but I can't. I've seen this happen before because I've personally done it before. It wasn't a fight because only one punch was thrown, but when I was in high school someone hit me square in the jaw and I laughed it off because I didn't want to seem hurt and I didn't want to start an actual fight. I was crying about 5 minutes later. I also still got suspended for fighting, so I should have just let him have it.
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Porn Scout Deactivated User
3735 Posts 10/02
Posted - May 4 2018 : 11:08PM
I'm surprised Rico is having trouble, to be honest. He's pretty reliable male talent, so far as I've been able to tell over the years, and while we here on this forum know more about him, the vast majority of fans could give two shits about any allegations against him.
why? As someone asked, if no means no, and yes means no, what means yes? This could be not defended. If someone defends this, he or she wants a society when even a written paper before sex would not be enough. Is there anybody who wants a society when men are so scared to be punished because even yes means no that sex doesn't exist anymore? Edited by - leatherface on 5/5/2018 5:11:16 AM
Do you realize that it was a completely different situation? Because here we have an experienced female performer who's into bdsm and rough sex, who says yes to everything like it's nothing, and she's not in a fight but in a controlled situation when nobody is threatening her. Just look at the video. This is not a situation when someone is threatened by a bully. It's more like someone entering a boxing or wrestling ring with a referee, when one knows that everything is under control. And it's a huge difference.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - May 5 2018 : 3:51PM
^^I posted the following on the previous page:Also note that I said that Dave and Rico are more accountable than Leigh because of their years of experience. I did not say that they are more accountable because they are men. There needs to be communication throughout a scene and it needs to go both ways. At this point in their careers, Just Dave and Rico should have a strong understanding of that necessity.
And when it was found out an outraged roar came out from porn consumers , on this very board those using him as a director DVSX company sayd through a CEO or their owner himself can't remember that they hire who they pleas , he was a friend and there were nothing we could do , he would continue hiring him as a director with one of his Stage Names created to cover his actual stage name. I couldn't take no more from them , I blacklisted the company right away , but the fun fact was that within a month or two it was impossible to find any of their movie at my store and it wasn't too easy to find anywhere else either (out of curiosity) apparently nobody was renting nor buying anything from them. Not sure it was because of that or some change of style from them, but I think they went out of business within a year or so So much for "there's nothing you can do about it"
That footage has already been proven as edited , so it's not evidence at all , you don't know what happened in those pauses "for battery change" that have been left or cut out Edited by - LCF on 5/5/2018 4:24:17 PM
This is all bullshit and baseless assumption on your part , she just performs such scenes probably because there's more money to be made. But there are some facts , she's a married lesbian , we should assume she doesn't like men let alone rough sex with men. also the fact that she does those scene and can take a lot shoul raise a question if her tolerance is that high what could have triggered such reaction on her part? Another thing cui prodest? What's the gaining with her behaviour ?If she lied what is she's supposed to gain by this? Any performer who reveals himself to be a trouble maker would experiance a hard backlash, it's a known fact, it's easily foreseeable, it's expected. So why would she lie about this? There's no gaining whatsoever , actually it's the very opposite there's everything to lose ,as I can see nobody answers this question what's she's aiming to gain acting like this? Edited by - LCF on 5/5/2018 4:44:17 PM
http://mikesouth.com/sex/the-question-about-consent-leigh-raven-and-her-boosters-cannot-answer-23996/ "Since he nanny cam video from March 6 does not show anything even remotely close to what she has publicly charged, Leigh Raven now contends that it has been "edited to [sic] fuck". This claim is false, as any viewing of the recording makes it crystal clear that we are seeing the beginning, middle and end of the scene. We don't see glamour or so-called "pretty girl" stills being photographed, but that is irrelevant because they are shot before the sex scene, not during or after, and Raven has claimed that all the abuse took place during the scene."
all bullshit? Just read at the tweets she made that you can see in this article: http://mikesouth.com/porn-stars/the-complete-leigh-raven-sexual-assault-video-will-blow-your-mind-23959/ and even if she does that kind of scenes only for the money, what difference should it make? I mean sure, you could say that there are guys who take advantage of the despair of women who desperately need money, but she is a famous performer so I don't think we're talking about that kind of situation. And besides that, I don't go on a ring with Floyd Mayweather to be beaten up to death just because of the money. Or I could do that, but after that why I should go crying that he punched me hard? That would have been my choice. Besides that, I don't know why she would lie, I'm not in her mind. I have some ideas about it, but it's not truly important if my ideas are correct or not. There are also people doing stupid or bad things for no reason at all. To attract attention. Maybe at the end of the video, even if it was her fault she could have decided that she hasn't liked what happened and she has started to blame Rico Strong and the director. That could be a reason. But what's important is that there's evidence of the fact that she's lying.
Sorry but no. Just Dave and Rico Strong are not more accountable of what happened because she didn't say no to anything and she didnt' stop and the excuse that she was terrified is unacceptable. She was not fronting bullies or rapists on a street. She was on a set where everyone could have stopped in every moment. And the idea that "yes means no" is truly dangerous.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - May 5 2018 : 8:32PM
^You're just going to ignore what I quoted? Leigh was not the only one who failed to communicate, and her failure is not as great as Just Dave's and Rico's because they are considerably more experienced than she is.
again: what means yes, if yes means no? What kind of communication you think should exist? non verbal communication? On porn scenes we expect to see acting, so if there's a fake rape you expect to see a woman acting like she's not ok. Or do you want to ignore that? That's why safewords exist, and if safewords aren't used, the communication should be very clear exactly because in a scene where there's acting you can't pretend that non verbal communication can be used like in a normal situation. That's why they plan what they will do and what is ok for the performer before, and she could have stopped the scene at every moment.
Not at all there are a few pauses made "to change the battery" where no filming was made and we cannot know how long the pause has been , someone noticed that the set-up was changed between a couple of them , furniture moved , the area polished , something like that, this means that pauses were a lot longer than the few seconds needed to change some batteries. Besides we don't know what happened and was agreed before they begun to film hence no parameters to evaulate whether or not what was happening was actually the same as agreed in advance
Exactly we expect to see acting ,experience should allow to understand when a performer is actually acting or suffering or whether she's in discomfort and tries to endure to get paid even if she hides her true pain she saying this both are a lot more experienced than Leigh , the lack oc communications goes both ways ,for example you don't beat to death someone who doesn't spek English just because she can't say she's hurting
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - May 6 2018 : 2:37PM
What GGG said. In a previous thread I used the example of as scene called "Game of Holes." It was a rough scene, and at one point Samantha Bentley appeared to be especially disoriented and exhausted. The director asked her if she was okay, and so did the male talent. She signaled that she was and yet the director cut anyway before continuing. Again, this was supposed to be a rough scene, with lots of slapping and manhandling. Samantha was supposed to appear to be overwhelmed. She did not say anything to indicate that she needed a break, and when she was asked if she was okay she signaled that she was, yet the director cut anyway. That's actual professionalism. You observe the talent and you make sure that the talent is okay. That is especially important during rough scenes and BDSM scenes. You'd expect industry veterans to know that and act accordingly.
so she was so terrified to laugh instead of saying stop in order to "survive", but she used a non verbal safe word? This is getting more and more confusing. (no, not really). Edited by - leatherface on 5/6/2018 2:43:37 PM
You're talking like there isn't a video, but few minutes of it are enough to understand that she wasn't in disconfort. Or if she was in disconfort she's the best actress in the world and nobody could have understood that.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - May 6 2018 : 2:52PM
I did a search and I found out that the interview was for the Stockroom.com blog, which seems to no longer exist. Luckily, I was able to find an excerpt:Edited by - misspornUSA on 5/6/2018 2:54:12 PM
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - May 6 2018 : 2:58PM
^^The two industry veterans she was working with should have been able to understand that she was in discomfort. Maybe Tofu isn't experienced enough, but Just Dave and Rico? They failed.
yes, but the fact is that you don't have to be an experienced porn director to understand discomfort in a person. Everybody could understand if there's disconfort watching the video, and I don't see any of it. I see a woman who makes extreme porn who acts like it's a normal day at the office and laughing. So if she was "hiding the terror inside" they did not see it because she if it's the case is an extremely good actress. I don't think this is the case, for different reasons, but definitely to say that "they are experienced, they should have understood the situation" does not have any sense. There are many women in the industry who have faced abuse and deserve support. Leigh Raven is definetely not one of them, and she's actually making a serious damage to all women. Because before her case I was one of those who tended to believe more to the words of a woman in similar situations. She proved me I was wrong. Not anymore. Edited by - leatherface on 5/6/2018 3:17:03 PM
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - May 6 2018 : 4:52PM
^I shared an example in which a director decided to cut even though the talent signaled that she was okay. Perhaps you are unable to comprehend the prudence of that action, but you're not an industry vet. I don't believe that Just Dave and Rico did everything wrong and that Leigh Raven did everything right. What I do believe is that the two industry vets are more accountable than someone who is much newer.
I can understand that someone could have concern about a performer, even if she says that she's ok. A good thing. That doesn't mean that Just Dave or Rico Strong are guilt because they didn't do the same. It just means that what they saw what we can see: a performer acting like she had no problem at all. And more, what we see is Leigh Raven also lying about a number of things (like the fact that she had never done any throatfucking before, or just inventing things that didn't happen in the scene). But even without the lies, even pretending that she was scared like she says (and sorry, there are too much details in this story that don't make her version believable to me), we're back again to the question: if even yes means no, what means yes? I don't know, following this logic seems that every director should ask thousand times "are you ok?" and then stop the scene no matter what the reaction is. Trying to read in the mind of a person and subtle non verbal cues. Otherwise he will be considered guilt and banned from the industry. But probably the industry would not exist anymore, because every scene would not be finished.
