I was unaware of either of these facts. I still think there is a value to discussing and developing a set of community standards around consent. I can imagine the executives at Mindgeek don't want these kinds of incidents happening on their sets, and might be open to establishing a set of standards. If they are opposed to establishing clear guidelines on consent, then it is a bigger problem, which may make it even more important to confront the problem.
That's a lame example. Nothing about the stories told by the women indicate they ever just changed their minds after the fact and everything was just fine before. A more equivalent story would be: You have people come to your house to buy furniture and a bunch of big mean looking intimidating guys show up get in your face and tell you they're there to buy the furniture and then gather around you and tell you in a very intimidating way that they want a few items you didn't have for sale to be added at no additional charge. You say "no" and then they jump in your face and say "I think it'll be better for you if you just do what we say..." so then you give them the furniture and anything else they want just so they would leave. You give them a Bill of Sale with the items and amount paid. You then go to the cops and tell them what happen and they file a report. Then you go to your friends go on Facebook or whatever to warn others about those guys and your friends and people who read your story ask you why you let them do that? Why did you sign the Bill of sales? Why didn't you just tell them to get the hell out of your house? Why didn't you just kick their asses? Why are you tripping over giving them extra furniture when you were selling your stuff to begin with? Why are you giving those guys shit when they've never done anything like that before? Stop being a baby, you wanted to sell your furniture and now it's sold. You're only doing this because they're a different race. I'm so sick of people like you plotting to make those guys look bad. It's easy to try and discredit others when you've never been put in that type of situation and maybe you're the type of person who is tough doesn't take anything from anyone. But for a girl in such a situation were she afraid, and in need, and will do anything just to try to get through her ordeal, it's pretty understandable. Particular in a business where this type of thing unfortunately seems to happen on a regular basis. So go ahead and believe whatever you choose to and come up with examples to try and confirm it.
What bothers me the most is that he's been warned by other companies and can do thus far because he knows he has nothing to worry about , he also made a clear statement on how much he could make over a single scene , a greedy scum as it appears Edited by - LCF on 3/18/2018 11:17:58 AM
Look at it this way, if everyone who cares abput performers stops promoting/being part of the industry every shoot will become like this. The industry needs people to stand up and say this isn't okay and the people who do such things need to go.
People lie all the time without an incentive to do so. With that being said, I don't believe that she is lying in this particular case. However, what she said lacks any evidence of assault. She gave consent before, during, and after the scene. She accepted payment. And she even said herself that at no time during the scene did she ever give verbal resistance. Thus, unless she expects people to read her mind, how exactly does this qualify as assault?Did you watch a different video? Where did she say that she ever said No? Where did she say that she was ever threatened? To the contrary, she clearly stated in the video that they explained everything to her before the scene, which was that it was a rough scene that would include verbal insults directed toward her, and that she agreed to that. And where was the part where they forced her to perform acts to which she did not agree? Saying that there's a position that makes her uncomfortable is not the same as refusing to do the position, especially since porn performers often have to perform in positions that may be uncomfortable for them. As for her being intimidated because she was surrounded by "big mean looking" guys, that makes no sense, especially when she repeatedly refers to one of those guys as her "friend." Plus, most porn crews are all-male, so it's highly unlikely that it was the first time that she's been on a set where she was the only female. Was she intimidated all the other times too? If she's intimidated by "big mean looking" guys, then she should avoid porn sets, as most of them are not staffed by crewmembers who look like Sunday school teachers. Your analogy would make sense if any of those things actually occurred, which they didn't according to her own story.Here we go again. I've never made a single anti-woman post. I have, however, made posts questioning, criticizing, and examining the actions of people who happen to be women. So if I do the same thing to people who happen to be men, does that make me anti-man? I don't buy this bullshit people are selling about how women should be exempt from criticism just because they're women. That's stupid. But then again, it's a great way to avoid having to actually answer questions if you can just paint anyone who asks them as "anti-woman." Thanks for proving my point from my previous post yesterday.
Porno movies, sexy videos, xxx. Adult DVD Talk at your service. 6409 Posts 11/99
Posted - Mar 19 2018 : 9:09AM
Hey guess what, realtip, this thread is not about you nor are you an expert on porn sets, or anything for that matter. Please take your pretend expertise somewhere else.
Porno movies, sexy videos, xxx. Adult DVD Talk at your service. 6409 Posts 11/99
Posted - Mar 19 2018 : 9:44AM
Are we doing enough? Are we vocal enough? What more can we do? Maybe those are rhetorical questions (not directed at you, Flash, just a general feeling of helplessness.)
^ I do what I can through social media/pedagogy/writing, but that's so limited and feels quite removed (even if it makes something of a difference in how people approach porn in the long run). Putting pressure on the studios seems to be the only tangible thing that makes a difference. And unlike Hollywood, we can actually contact studios and producers/directors.
If a person fears retaliation for refusing, then their agreement is meaningless. They were not given a free choice. This really isn't rocket science, anyone who claims not to understand or accept this is being willfully obtuse.
definitely. she should always make sure to make him get on the scale, get his credit rating, and full SSN before she files a report and it should be accurate. If not, EVERYTHING she says is a lie. If she had said 5 ft 11 and he is 5 ft 11.3, she is a liar.
Do you know what consent is? Here, I will explain it to you in a way that even someone like you can understand. You are having sex with a young lady. You have consented to that sex. In the middle, she flips you over, grabs her strap on, and starts pounding you in the ass.
"i need to get both sides of the story." okay, so you expect men (mostly) who do stuff like this will just come out and admit to it? So they can go to prison. Nope, not gonna happen.
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realtip Deactivated User
2301 Posts 6/04
Posted - Mar 20 2018 : 4:08AM
Huh? I didn't claim to be an expert on anything. But then, I never said that I hate women either. Alas, I can't stop stop people from trying to misconstrue everything I say just because I don't get on the uniformity of opinion bandwagon.I disagree. There may be retaliation for refusing, but the choice is still up to that person. If you agree to something out of fear of retaliation, that doesn't change the fact that you still agreed to it. And if possible retaliation was a fear, then why make the video afterwards? What's to stop people from retaliating against her now? So that argument is also open to question. If she has no fear of saying something after the act, then why would there have been fear of saying something during the act? Fear of consequence doesn't remove the presence of free choice. It just means that you have to prepared to face the consequences, which too many people are not willing to do. It's easier to just blame others for our choices than to take accountability for the choices we make ourselves.Does she do it while I am unconscious, or puts a gun to my head, or incapacitates me, or threatens me, or somehow otherwise forces me? If not, and I turn over and willingly say, "Yes, you can use the strap-on," then yes, I have consented to it. Therein lies the difference. We have heard for years that "No means No," and that consent must always be given. Now we're hearing that even if consent is given, then it may not really be consent, and you still have to try to figure out if Yes really means Yes even when she says Yes. How do people not realize how ridiculous this is getting? These people- men and women- are all adults. When are we going to start holding adults accountable for their own choices?
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FlacFan Deactivated User
10088 Posts 8/15
Posted - Mar 20 2018 : 9:35AM
^ I get what you are trying to say, but that works both ways, doesn't it? Even if you take this as a push/even score, where is the producer and actors responsibility for obviously crossing the agreed on lines for the scene., because you seem to be wanting it both ways. Since performers do not get paid until the scene is over, there could be the implication that if you rock the boat you won't get paid. She says flat out that he sat on the couch with her in post, holding the check and asking her the exit questions. This clearly could be interpreted as a threat to with hold payment. To assume that the porn industry doesn't see these girls as replaceable parts is laughably misguided.
Occasionally not, but you question that every single time and not just that you say they lie EVERY FUCKING SINGLE TIME it's called bias at the very least
Newcummer Ana Rose seems to have had an unplanned anal in her first BG scene. The rumor is based on a tweet that's been pulled, so I don't know the details. There was some publicity about an upcoming scene on "Exploited College Girls" just before the supposed incident. She is represented by Hussie Models. It seems to me that if the industry is going to address this issue, one of the key players has to be the agents, who understand the industry and whose job it is to represent the model's interests.
An aside: I'm surprised that an industry that contributes millions, maybe even billions by now, to the American economy, doesn't have union representation for its performers. Edited by - grover on 3/21/2018 10:07:19 AM
See page three of this thread. It was with ECG. She told them no and she has texts between her and her agent where he tells her to say no and she confirms she said no. During the scene, they sprung it on her and she says she "froze." She had been in the industry for just one month. They did not pay her extra.
Thread. The Free Speech Coalition is the industry union but represents the whole industry, not just talent. Ona Zee attempted to get a performer union started, and failed. Nica Noelle also tried to start one and claims that she endured a lot of hostility. She quit too. Edited to note: FSC is not actually a union. It's a trade association. My bad. Edited by - Gore Gore Girl on 3/21/2018 10:57:29 AM
Misogynist also is very prejudiced against women, given the fact he feels the need to post support for the man every time and denounce the woman as a liar each time, that sounds like very prejudiced against women verging on hatred.
I know that this wasn't directed at me but I have thought heavily about what you asked. Are we doing enough? Doubtful given how much is still going on. Are we vocal enough? Doubtful since some companies will still hire the people who do this. What more can we do? It has been mentioned (here? on Twitter? I'm not sure where I read it) about creating a database that isn't run by agents, studios, etc where the actors and actresses can disclose issues like this. I don't know if the person who brought it up imagined it this way but I would see it as like a rate my professor type site. Rate my porno shoot. I do want to stress, this isn't my idea, I am passing on one that someone else (who I can't remember the source of or I would credit it) had that sounds like a good next step. One aspect you didn't touch on is that we are doing more. Not just fans/forums/etc but for instance directors like Lee Roy Myers has been posting more and more about respecting talent and support services for talent. The more these conversations are created, as long as something more than just talk comes from them, the more we are doing to change the industry for the better.
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FlacFan Deactivated User
10088 Posts 8/15
Posted - Mar 21 2018 : 2:28PM
^ Boycott the actors or actresses who abuse others. Boycott the studios who have abused performers. Boycott studios who book abusers, even if the studios are clean. It;'s virtually the only way to stop the cycle. Want things to change? Hurt the money.
You can bet she will have trouble getting booked for b/g scenes. Male directors, male producers, and male performers will be leary of working with her. [Tweet is no longer available]
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FlacFan Deactivated User
10088 Posts 8/15
Posted - Mar 21 2018 : 3:16PM
^^ Completely agree flash, Though the recent Storm{y} clouds over D.C. have driven up porn searches dramatically. That may help.
^^ It'll help her (Stormy), but not this. The general public has generally shown, in all forms of media, that they don't really care to inform themselves about how the sausage is made, as long as it is made to their liking. Porn searches may go up, they'll be searching for videos, not for social media or blogs or anything in terms of performers talking about their experiences shooting scenes.
^^Just like I thought. All three of these ladies will have trouble getting booked in the future. The fans and a few female performers tweeted support but the people (men) in power will be slow to hire these women in the future. They will be on male performers' "no list". They might get some token g/g bookings from female run companies but that is it.
Edited by - fanofman on 3/21/2018 7:21:22 PM
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FlacFan Deactivated User
10088 Posts 8/15
Posted - Mar 21 2018 : 6:38PM
Sounds like there needs to be a massive strike by the girls to get the studios and the stunt dicks to see that there is a problem.
^ Ho they know very well there's a problem , those "dumb whores" who dare make a fuss over some minor fucking excesse. what REALLY BOTHERS me is Nikki's tweet there's a backlash from the WHOLE INDUSTRY backing up those scums and basically making an example out of Leigh and Nikki to make sure nobody would do anything like this in the future. see above all exteriors booking CANCELED , they're ALL SIDING with Just Dave , the FA scum and anybody else who abuse women As for the Agents , well I'm pretty sure they paid him his due for the scene so that he wouldn't suffer any loss and stays quiet and THIS IS THE ONLY PLAUSIBLE REASON as to why some people keeps abusing the stars and doing way more than what was dealt before and yet getting NO BACKLASH from any Agency I would have thought that after a couple incident nobody would trust them with any girl , unless... The agents get paid and have nothing to complain I'm seriously thinking about ceasing any support to the Industry and killing all my memberships Edited by - LCF on 3/21/2018 7:12:07 PM
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FlacFan Deactivated User
10088 Posts 8/15
Posted - Mar 21 2018 : 7:20PM
^ Exactly my point LCF. Walk out. Now I don't think that will happen, but if every major star walked, they would be screwed.
We as fans can support the performers, we can unite our voices with theirs, but we need to follow their lead in this discussion. ADT might be one forum in which a discussion among performers (and between performers and fans) can take place, but the performers would need to separate their publicity work from their participation in a open discussion about their working conditions. It seems that ADT might allow/encourage performers to set up a second anonymous account. ADT might use things like IP-addresses to confirm that certain accounts truly belong to performers. ADT could then identify the performers as "Confirmed performers" in the same way there are now "All-Star members" etc.. Participants could know that we are truly hearing the voices of performers, while allowing those performers to separate their on-screen personas from the real-life people who have to deal with real-life challenges in the work place. The performers understand their working conditions much better than I do. I am prepared to support them.
Sadly, it looks like this is going to be another example of something horrible happening in the porn biz and nothing is really going to happen to those responsible for this. I think if no major changes happen after this in an era of progress happening in Hollywood and women speaking up and the overall movement for/of women...then we're doomed to see this become business as usual for the porn world. If the people who do this don't receive some sort of meaningful punishment it will only show others that they can get away with this and we'll simply see more of it because more porn makers will feel that they can do it and suffer no consequences. People will feel free to exploit a girl's fears of not getting paid or being blackballed.
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FlacFan Deactivated User
10088 Posts 8/15
Posted - Mar 25 2018 : 11:26AM
Porn as a whole really needs to watch out, they are rapidly verifying the "porn exploits and objectifies women" argument that the feminists always throw at them. @morbid thoughts: You are probably correct sadly. and those who did walk out would probably be blackballed by quite a few studios.
Honestly, with the way things are, porn is going to forget about this just like everything else and will be business as usual and that's sad. ----Dread's Twitter----
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realtip Deactivated User
2301 Posts 6/04
Posted - Mar 27 2018 : 2:35AM
There aren't too many jobs that pay employees before the work is performed. So yes, if a performer agrees to shoot a scene, and she is told beforehand what the scene will entail, and she agrees to those conditions, then it is her responsibility to perform the scene if she wants to be paid. Of course, she also has every right to decide not to perform or complete the scene, but that obviously means that she would not be paid, which would be true in any profession. If you quit a job, any job, then why would you expect to still get paid? That makes no sense.I said here that Leigh appears to be telling the truth. So I did not accuse her of lying in her story. What I also said is that her story, while believable, does not match the definition of assault, which by definition is non-consensual. She says herself that she consented to everything they asked her to do, which therefore means that it cannot be assault. It's not that she's lying. It's that it's not sexual assault.I don't hate women, but I do hate witch hunts, lynch mobs, and feigned outrage without evidence. It's true that I generally support the accused in these cases rather than the accuser. In cases lacking evidence, isn't that what you're supposed to do, or is "innocent until proven guilty" just a joke? Besides, how is believing the man any different from just automatically believing the woman each and every time without question?
Leigh Raven @ AnalVids
Posted - Mar 18 2018 : 8:58AM
