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All Forums > The Porn Pool > The Porn Pool Forum Page 215 > Racism in Porn: The forum for real talk > Racism in Porn: The forum for real talk (page 3)

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Draxxx Senior Member 3831 Posts 2/07	Posted - Oct 17 2014 : 10:45PM Curtom wrote: Shooting (white/asian/latin women) scenes with black men will: hurt your career lower your value lose work with white companies/directors sever your fanbase Click to expand I don't know if that's a "myth" because I would think at one time with certain stars that might've been the case. But I don't blame the directors/agents as much as I blame the porn viewing audience. I can totally buy that at one time a girl doing IR could have her career hurt by it but not it the obvious ways being discussed here. I believed it was discused in one of the other 6 zillion IR threads that at one time some pornstars who feature danced in certain Southern states might see a drop in attendance at certain strip clubs because of her doing IR. I'm pretty sure there was a time when racist white males made up a big enough portion of some girls fanbase that if they dropped her in would make a noticable different that the girl could see. I think that that audience was big enough and porn was small enough that they could make an impact. Plus if you add in the part of the audience probably not racist at all but just don't care to watch a white girl with a black man, when certain girls did IR at that time the studio heads saw a drop in sales and just decided the girl's rep was ruined and she'd never earned what she did before and her rates got lowered. Not at all hard to believe that there far more racist people and people who just had a preference to not watch IR existed back then. Over the years, people change. More tolerance of other races. Certain things become more popular. The old ways die off with the old guard. But there are still some who hold on to the old ways becaue it's all they know. Sometimes they may be right. There are different types of pornstars and some decisions may work well for some but not for others. I think that doing IR would not have been a big plus in the career of someone like Jenna Jameson. The audience that watched her movies is different from the typical Gonzo audience. When a girl does IR, I suspect she may lose some of her white audience but gains some the audience that likes or prefers IR. But the contract/feature girl audience tends to like their porn on the more conservative side....and a big part of the Gonzo audiences have almost zero interest in watching contract/feature girls. So when/if the big name contract girls does IR most of the Gonzo audience doesn't care unless it's in a Gonzo movie. I don't think girl like Jenna Jameson, Tera Patrick, Jesse Jane, Stormy Daniels, etc., doing IR woud've been any sort of career booster as long as they're doing features and might've turned off part of their audience. [Link]
MikePicassa Deactivated User 21 Posts 9/14	Posted - Oct 18 2014 : 4:47AM MOD: Goodbye! Edited by - flash on 10/18/2014 7:53:08 AM [Link]
Dre AKA NigSquid Member 726 Posts 9/14	Posted - Oct 18 2014 : 5:36AM Money Talks in this business and I don't see it changing anytime soon because the government more than likely wants nothing to do with regulation(unless it's bogus condom laws). The industry has to change from within. I EXTREMELY frown upon the racist practice of girls waiting to IR scenes to charge more money for it, but I also frown upon the way it's advertised and made into a big fetish. I've accepted that not every girl who does IR genuinely likes it. However, having vaginal sex with another human being of the opposite gender is equated to(or looked upon lower than) anal, blow bangs, gang bangs, DPs, DAPs, DAVs etc.... The thing that baffles me is why girls would do all the aforementioned sex acts but save IR as a last first as if it were more intense than taking two dicks in any hole. @NigSquid [Link]
Draxxx Senior Member 3831 Posts 2/07	Posted - Oct 18 2014 : 11:40AM Dre AKA NigSquid wrote: I EXTREMELY frown upon the racist practice of girls waiting to IR scenes to charge more money for it, but I also frown upon the way it's advertised and made into a big fetish. Click to expand Well,the two go hand in hand. Because the the audience (at least some of it) has made IR such a big deal it's become another part of porn to exploit. It may not be a fetish for you but for alot of people it is. Girls in porn have sex acts on camera because it's their job choice. The reason for having a job is to be paid. I don't see exploiting IR that different than exploiting anal or DPs or gangbangs. The way I see it if the demand is great enough that a girl shooting an IR scene will sell better for a director/studio and they make extra money because that girl did IR why the heck shouldn't she charge more for it? So the the director/studio mnakes a bunch of money from a particular girl doing IR and the person responsible for it doesn't get any more for doing it? How is that good business sense for the girl? The studio/director made a big profit off her and she gets nothing extra for being the very reason for the extra profit because it's not right to charge more becuse of skin color? That's insane and if you take color out of the equasion and look at it as supply and demand and a business it begins to look totally different. Guess what? There are girls who like anal. Yet the porn biz pays more for anal. So should the girls who like anal not get paid more for it because they like it? If they're able to get paid more for it, why shouldn't they? They're doing porn to make money. Why turn down the chance to make more based on whether they like it or not or based on what some people see as the "right" thing to do? More importantly....why are so many fans concerned with what the girls get paid? Did the studio charge them more for that IR seen they've been hounding a girl to do? Did the director send out e-mails asking fans for a donation to make a IR scene happen? If any director decides it's worth their extra money to get a girl to do something that's their business and totally on them. Is the scene suddenly better or worse based on how much the girl was paid? The thing that baffles me is why girls would do all the aforementioned sex acts but save IR as a last first as if it were more intense than taking two dicks in any hole. Click to expand First off, not all girls have IR as a last thing on their list and their list may contain a lonf list of stuff after IR that they'll never do. From what I see the list of girls who do IR is much longer than those who do DPs and/or gangbangs. And of the girls who do many have done IR before doing those things. As I mentioned in my other post there are different types of pornstars and what works for some might not work so well for others. The reasons a girl might not do IR at all or choose to do it later in their career can be many and most of them have absolutely nothing to do with "racism". Porn is a business for hem first and foremost and they'll steer their career based on what they think will work best for them. Many girls enter the business and fall into certain sections of porn and just decide to stay with it for as long as they can. There are girls who get into porn and don't want to do any of the harder edged stuff and they happen to have the right look so they end up shooting lots of NAUGHTY AMERICA, GIRLFRIEND FILMS, DIGITAL PLAYGROUND, VIVID, or any of the long list of porn studios that shoot more "vanilla" porn and by the way don't use many black performers. That girl may be getting plenty of work from those studios get very comfortable shooting for those studios and have grown accustomed with the male talent they use and just don't see the need to venture away from them. At some point later down the road she may have to try different studios and a different type of porn but until then why leave what's she's comfortable with? For some girls the demand or even the oppurtunity to do IR simply isn't there. No matter who much fans or the girl herself may want to do IR the fact is she can't do it until someone hires her. Someone may be crazy over a certain girl to do IR but the IR director who picks the talent might have no interest in hiring her. For every Alexis Texas who fans want to see do IR there are hundreds of white girls no one really cares if they do IR or not and don't even care if they do porn or not. Lots of girls do their first IR scene and it's not mentioned as their first because the vast majority of people don't care. Directors try to pick girls their audience wants to see because it makes them money. So many girls haven't done IR because no one asked. Some girls don't do IR (or do more of it) because they aren't worth the cost to the director to put them in their movie. Ever notice that there are certain girls who only shoot IR for the big studios like JULES JORDAN but no one else? It probably because their rates are too high and their return is minimal. It's worth paying someone like Lisa Ann big bucks to be in a smaller studio's movie because she has a big fanbase and will push sales. There are lots of other white girls who may charge a lot but don't bring IR fans to the table so they aren't worth the investment for a smaller comapany. Some don't do IR because they want to be perceived as a certain type of pornstar and only want to shoot for the high end studios that don't do the usual Gonzo type stuff. There still girls following the Jena Jameson, Tera Patrick, Jesse Jane school of how to achieve porn stardom. I've seen girls who did lots of IR at the beginning of their career do make-over for themselves and that make-over included to stop or cur way down on the amount of IR they do and I have to admit with some I've seen their career do better without doing the IR or as much. But that might've been due to management change. I'm not sure. But a lot of the studios that regualarly shoot IR are some of the lower end ones so I can see where some girls might think it's better not to work for those. Size. Some girls don't want to do IR because most of the black men in porn are big. Yeah, there are big white guys in porn too but some of those girls don't bang those guys either. Daisy Marie entered porn mostly doing IR but she has said she had to stop doing black guys because they were big and she'd be sore for the next few days and couldn't work so she stopped doing black guys because it wasn't worth it. It's possible that Daisy has done white guys later just a big as the black guys she did back then but it almost doesn't matter what the reality is her perception is the black guys were too big. And it's possible that's the perception of some of the girls who enter porn. So they don't do IR. In the end there are lots of reasons why a girl may choose not to do IR and most of them aren't about them being racist. [Link]

LCF All-Star Member Non Prevalebunt! 10364 Posts 1/05	Posted - Oct 18 2014 : 11:53AM ^ I have absolutely nothing to add to this , don't even know what to add actually, great post [Link]
Curtom Deactivated User 293 Posts 8/14	Posted - Oct 18 2014 : 1:05PM A myth is something not true but believed so.... As for the thug myth , I ask why a myth? Maybe you meant stereotype , but myth? thugs exist Click to expand I stand corrected there are stars who lost half their followers (and customers) when they begun to do IR , there are stars who get attacked by some and even threatened when they begun to do IR. And there are stars whose agent basically wiped them out of porn when they did IR ] Click to expand mention a number of stars who did less than ten scenes and nothing more , most of them quit right after or short after they did IR , I can't prove that was because of that, but really there's a an awful lot of them. Click to expand You just contradicted yourself, you say your certain that they quit because of doing interracial but then say are can't prove it. what kind of reasoning is this? When? Who? Give me examples for each i.e. whose followers deserted them when they did interracial scenes? Whose agent 'wiped them out' when they did interracial? However you are correct that that some pornstars are attacked on social media for not doing interracial. [Link]
Curtom Deactivated User 293 Posts 8/14	Posted - Oct 18 2014 : 1:09PM misspornUSA wrote: Curtom wrote: White men in porn are far more likely to engage in aggressive sex with their co-star. But this generally gets a pass. Thats why blacks portrayed as thug-like is truly a myth. Click to expand I disagree with your assessment. Do you watch much "aggressive" porn? Last I checked, most of the big names in aggressive onscreen sex like James Deen, Toni Ribas, Mr. Pete, Manuel Ferrera, Nacho Vidal, etc. are not black. I suggest you watch a few gangbangs that feature both non-black and black men. See some of Mason's work for example. Rarely are the black men the most aggressive ones. Click to expand I think you misunderstood me. I'm saying black men are not thugs but are associated with aggressiveness, whereas white guys are actually more likely to engage in aggressive 'thug' like behaviour, but get less discrimination. [Link]
Curtom Deactivated User 293 Posts 8/14	Posted - Oct 18 2014 : 1:10PM negrine wrote: LCF wrote: So it's not a myth , this seldom happen to established stars they were mostly newbies , you don't even hear of them , or you don't even understand what hit them, I can mention a number of stars who did less than ten scenes and nothing more , most of them quit right after or short after they did IR , I can't prove that was because of that, but really there's a an awful lot of them. Edited by - LCF on 10/17/2014 2:56:34 PM Click to expand How is that assumption any less speculative than any random IR fan assuming racist intent on those whom do not perform IR? There has always been a high turnover (quit) rate for porn newbies, regardless of their policies of performing IR. Click to expand exactly [Link]
Dre AKA NigSquid Member 726 Posts 9/14	Posted - Oct 18 2014 : 1:22PM ^^^Draxxx, excellent and eloquent statements. I love this discussion because it questions the complacency of a screwed up system and sheds light on a lot of interesting industry practices. I'm more of a "hate the game" type of person when it comes to this topic but I definitely hold both accountable. I can't respond to your post right now(going to work soon), but I like the discussion we're having and plan on breaking down the things you've said when I come back on later. @NigSquid [Link]
Curtom Deactivated User 293 Posts 8/14	Posted - Oct 18 2014 : 1:35PM I don't know if that's a "myth" because I would think at one time with certain stars that might've been the case. Click to expand Then how do you explain the huge success of the following AVN Female Performer of Year winners all of which shot significant amounts interracial scenes: Asa Akira Tori Black (twice) Sasha Grey Jenna Haze Nikita Denise Aurora Snow Ashley Blue Lauren Phoenix Hillary Scott Bobbi Starr Some have amounted significant prestige despite not winning it: Lisa Ann Julia Ann Belladonna [Link]
Curtom Deactivated User 293 Posts 8/14	Posted - Oct 18 2014 : 1:37PM Dre AKA NigSquid wrote: Money Talks in this business and I don't see it changing anytime soon because the government more than likely wants nothing to do with regulation(unless it's bogus condom laws). The industry has to change from within. I EXTREMELY frown upon the racist practice of girls waiting to IR scenes to charge more money for it, but I also frown upon the way it's advertised and made into a big fetish. I've accepted that not every girl who does IR genuinely likes it. However, having vaginal sex with another human being of the opposite gender is equated to(or looked upon lower than) anal, blow bangs, gang bangs, DPs, DAPs, DAVs etc.... The thing that baffles me is why girls would do all the aforementioned sex acts but save IR as a last first as if it were more intense than taking two dicks in any hole. @NigSquid Click to expand Need I say more [Link]
Curtom Deactivated User 293 Posts 8/14	Posted - Oct 18 2014 : 1:55PM Size. Some girls don't want to do IR because most of the black men in porn are big. Yeah, there are big white guys in porn too but some of those girls don't bang those guys either. Daisy Marie entered porn mostly doing IR but she has said she had to stop doing black guys because they were big and she'd be sore for the next few days and couldn't work so she stopped doing black guys because it wasn't worth it. It's possible that Daisy has done white guys later just a big as the black guys she did back then but it almost doesn't matter what the reality is her perception is the black guys were too big. And it's possible that's the perception of some of the girls who enter porn. So they don't do IR. Click to expand This claim is complete nonsense. So is every black guy in porn is 'big'. There are several black guys that aren't too big just average. That's unfair to put all black men in the same category when one hasn't met them all. But this is the very issue I have with porn anyways. Why is it if a girl has an issue on set with a co-star who happens to be black, then all of a sudden decides she won't work with all blacks again? Why is it that Dogfart's brand of interracial porn is to many, the epitome of interracial porn when there are other directors and companies who shoot interracial porn but de-emphasize the stereotypes. If you don't want to be portrayed a 'black cock slut' by Dogfart, shoot for Lex or Mandingo or L.T. or WCP or Sean Michaels or Blacked or JJV GODDAMIT! Edited by - Curtom on 10/18/2014 1:59:29 PM [Link]
Curtom Deactivated User 293 Posts 8/14	Posted - Oct 18 2014 : 1:55PM MikePicassa wrote: MOD: Goodbye! Edited by - flash on 10/18/2014 7:53:08 AM Click to expand What happened? [Link]
Curtom Deactivated User 293 Posts 8/14	Posted - Oct 18 2014 : 1:58PM Dre AKA NigSquid wrote: ^^^Draxxx, excellent and eloquent statements. I love this discussion because it questions the complacency of a screwed up system and sheds light on a lot of interesting industry practices. I'm more of a "hate the game" type of person when it comes to this topic but I definitely hold both accountable. I can't respond to your post right now(going to work soon), but I like the discussion we're having and plan on breaking down the things you've said when I come back on later. @NigSquid Click to expand Yes, I said from the start this is about the agents, the men behind the scenes, not the girls. I believe they are being mislead. Edited by - Curtom on 10/18/2014 2:16:04 PM [Link]

LCF All-Star Member Non Prevalebunt! 10364 Posts 1/05	Posted - Oct 18 2014 : 3:20PM Curtom wrote: there are stars who lost half their followers (and customers) when they begun to do IR , there are stars who get attacked by some and even threatened when they begun to do IR. And there are stars whose agent basically wiped them out of porn when they did IR ] Click to expand mention a number of stars who did less than ten scenes and nothing more , most of them quit right after or short after they did IR , I can't prove that was because of that, but really there's a an awful lot of them. Click to expand You just contradicted yourself, you say your certain that they quit because of doing interracial but then say are can't prove it. what kind of reasoning is this? When? Who? Give me examples for each i.e. whose followers deserted them when they did interracial scenes? Whose agent 'wiped them out' when they did interracial? However you are correct that that some pornstars are attacked on social media for not doing interracial. Click to expand Strange questions coming from someone who's making accusations without showing any evidence of his claims , but what amuses me the most is your question about the agents since you didn't bother to provide any name when you said this Curtom wrote: Yes, I said from the start this is about the agents, the men behind the scenes, not the girls. I believe they are being mislead. Click to expand perhaps they are the same agents as for the other questions well when I said I can't prove I meant I didn't spoke to them and they didn't come here to explain so there's no certainty , but I already explained in another post below that the reasoning behind my statement For the other question , are you asking me to provide the names of those who abandoned the stars? Seriously? Do you take note of the followers of the star and notice who comes and goes? I surely don't and won't. Curtom wrote: I don't know if that's a "myth" because I would think at one time with certain stars that might've been the case. Click to expand Then how do you explain the huge success of the following AVN Female Performer of Year winners all of which shot significant amounts interracial scenes: Asa Akira Tori Black (twice) Sasha Grey Jenna Haze Nikita Denise Aurora Snow Ashley Blue Lauren Phoenix Hillary Scott Bobbi Starr Some have amounted significant prestige despite not winning it: Lisa Ann Julia Ann Belladonna Click to expand These are all gonzo stars Draxxx already explained the difference between them and Vanilla contract stars the bigger of them were Jenna Jameson and Tera Patrick who never performed IR , also Vanilla are the most sold scenes , Vanilla Companies and sites are the biggest in the world big stars such as Jesse Jane , Riley Steele, Kayden Kross didn't perform IR . Two of the examples you made , Julia and Lisa Ann were almost IR free in their contract days they become huge before doing IR. Anyway if I mention some billionaires this would no proof that poverty doesn't exist , if I mention a black President this doesn't give evidence that racism disappeared. Those you mentioned are superstars worked for the bigger companies had a worldwide market , a big one , they sold a lot or are truly beautiful. Moreover that was an entirely different era But many B and C starlet aren't this lucky , they have no bargaining power , they just cannot afford to lose the few follower they have. If I have to hire a newbie I don't know I may try to figure out how much she would help the sales, if she has many followers I may give her a chance , if she has just a bunch I'd prefer someone else. That's why a bad reaction from those might really hurt the actresses [Link]
Zy28 Deactivated User 251 Posts 2/12	Posted - Oct 18 2014 : 3:34PM Draxxx wrote: Guess what? There are girls who like anal. Yet the porn biz pays more for anal. So should the girls who like anal not get paid more for it because they like it? If they're able to get paid more for it, why shouldn't they? They're doing porn to make money. Why turn down the chance to make more based on whether they like it or not or based on what some people see as the "right" thing to do? First off, not all girls have IR as a last thing on their list and their list may contain a lonf list of stuff after IR that they'll never do. From what I see the list of girls who do IR is much longer than those who do DPs and/or gangbangs. And of the girls who do many have done IR before doing those things. In the end there are lots of reasons why a girl may choose not to do IR and most of them aren't about them being racist. Click to expand Anal is a scene that is more stressful than regular b/g so of course more pay makes sense. Getting more pay to work with Black talent on the other hand doesn't make sense as it's just a regular b/g scene. Also the core of the argument about why girls don't do IR is racism even if it's not about them personally being racist. After all there's a reason why this racial absurdity doesn't exist in other countries porn industries. Edited by - Zy28 on 10/18/2014 3:41:21 PM [Link]
Draxxx Senior Member 3831 Posts 2/07	Posted - Oct 19 2014 : 1:18AM Curtom wrote: I don't know if that's a "myth" because I would think at one time with certain stars that might've been the case. Click to expand Then how do you explain the huge success of the following AVN Female Performer of Year winners all of which shot significant amounts interracial scenes: Asa Akira Tori Black (twice) Sasha Grey Jenna Haze Nikita Denise Aurora Snow Ashley Blue Lauren Phoenix Hillary Scott Bobbi Starr Some have amounted significant prestige despite not winning it: Lisa Ann Julia Ann Belladonna Click to expand I said "at one time". Meaning at one time in the past. I also said "certain" stars. There aren't any contract girls on your list of winners. Lastly, winning an award doesn't automatically mean the girl has the biggest audience or is the top paid girl. [Link]
Draxxx Senior Member 3831 Posts 2/07	Posted - Oct 19 2014 : 1:59AM Curtom wrote: This claim is complete nonsense. So is every black guy in porn is 'big'. There are several black guys that aren't too big just average. Click to expand Sure there are. But those guys aren't the ones most fans want to see white a white girl with. And the majority of black guys are big...that's one the main reasons they got the job doing porn. That's unfair to put all black men in the same category when one hasn't met them all. But this is the very issue I have with porn anyways. Click to expand I never claimed it was "fair". But that's what people do. They categorize people unfairly. Kinda like people who make racism claims against people they don't know based on whether or not they bang black guys on film. Why is it if a girl has an issue on set with a co-star who happens to be black, then all of a sudden decides she won't work with all blacks again? Click to expand This isn't exclusive to porn. This isn't exculsive to only black men. It's the way some people react and think. A fav pornstar of mine, Kissy Kapri said she lost her vaginity to a black guy. But during an all black gangbang shoot she said one of the guys tried to DP her when they weren't supposed to and she after that she didn't want to shoot with black guys again. She freely acknowledged that it was one bad apple but she didn't care. She wasn't going to shoot with black guys again. Irrational thinking but it's her choice to make. I don't hold it against her because she was young and irrational but she didn't say she wouldn't have sex with black guys again...just not for porn...and if she'd stayed in porn longer I think she might've actually banged a black guy again. When she told the story she thought it was funny and didn't seem too upset by it. I remember hearing that MILF pornstar D'Bella had problems with some black guy on one of her shoots and declared she was done working with black guys. I also remember Devon Lee stating she didn't want to work with certain black guys because how they acted after the shoot that she did like and made her uncomfortable. However she was more practical and sid she wouldn't shoot with or for those guys again but still shot IR with other performers. Diffrent people react differently to different situations. Some people lump all black males together, some lump a certain type of black performer together, some see them all as individuals. [Link]
Draxxx Senior Member 3831 Posts 2/07	Posted - Oct 19 2014 : 2:22AM Zy28 wrote: Anal is a scene that is more stressful than regular b/g so of course more pay makes sense. Getting more pay to work with Black talent on the other hand doesn't make sense as it's just a regular b/g scene. Click to expand Anal isn't "stressful" for all girls. Some girls like it and if it didn't pay more there are girls who would do it anyway. But it does pay more so girls who like it take advantage and charge for it anyway and the girls who rather not do it the money is the thing that makes them give in and do it. They work situation to make as much money as they can. These aren't girls punching a clock getting paid a similar salary as their coworkers. These are independent agents that do what they can to broker as much money as they can. They know that. The agents know that. The studios and directors know this but some fans can't seem to or refuse to grasp it. It's been mentioned time and time again that not all girls get paid more for IR. For certain girls they get paid more because the demand is there and the director think it's worth the extra money to get them to do it for their film. The difference between a director wanting a girl to do IR and fans wanting it is the director can persade her with money while fans just try to badger her into doing it. If a girl for whatever reason doesn't particularly want to do IR and it takes more money to get her to do it, why is that so horrible? Particularly if others will benefit from it? If a girl doesn't want to do anal and it takes more money to get her to do it why that such a big difference? If fans have been begging Nikki Benz for years to do IR and there's a big demand for her to do it and Jules Jordan makes a movie of her finally doing IR and it sells much better than his usual movies and it's all because of Nikki, Please explain why Nikki shouldn't get more money. [Link]
Dre AKA NigSquid Member 726 Posts 9/14	Posted - Oct 19 2014 : 4:50AM Draxxx wrote: Well,the two go hand in hand. Because the the audience (at least some of it) has made IR such a big deal it's become another part of porn to exploit. It may not be a fetish for you but for alot of people it is. Girls in porn have sex acts on camera because it's their job choice. The reason for having a job is to be paid. I don't see exploiting IR that different than exploiting anal or DPs or gangbangs. The way I see it if the demand is great enough that a girl shooting an IR scene will sell better for a director/studio and they make extra money because that girl did IR why the heck shouldn't she charge more for it? So the the director/studio mnakes a bunch of money from a particular girl doing IR and the person responsible for it doesn't get any more for doing it? How is that good business sense for the girl? Click to expand If we're strictly talking about first times then I see no problem with a girl charging for a FIRST time doing sex acts on film.(i.e. 1st GG, BG, IR, Anal, DP, etc.). After a girl does a first then her OVERALL rate should change. If a girl would charge more to do IR each time she did an IR scene after her first time because the director would make more money from her doing IR is saying that all her IR scenes sell more than her Vanilla scenes(Which isn't the case as you pointed out). The studio/director made a big profit off her and she gets nothing extra for being the very reason for the extra profit because it's not right to charge more becuse of skin color? That's insane and if you take color out of the equasion and look at it as supply and demand and a business it begins to look totally different. Click to expand This is kind of the whole issue, taking out skin color defeats the issue. What's the fetish appeal of IR? seeing a girl take a huge dick while getting dominated by another man? If that's the case are girls getting paid more to work with Nacho, James Deen, Manuel, and Kierian Lee? First off, not all girls have IR as a last thing on their list and their list may contain a lonf list of stuff after IR that they'll never do. From what I see the list of girls who do IR is much longer than those who do DPs and/or gangbangs. And of the girls who do many have done IR before doing those things. Click to expand I should've expanded upon my point more here. I wasn't saying all girls have it last on their list, I was saying if a girl was increasing the amount of intense scenes that they do then why would a girl leave IR on the bottom of the list. For example, girls like Bonnie Rotten, Carter Cruise, Adrianna Chechik are know for their intense performances as they have done anal, multiple DPs, and Gang Bangs. Why would a performer increase the intensity of their scenes then have IR as the last "intense" "sex act" that they would perform? I know that girls like these are outliers, but that business model doesn't make sense. As I mentioned in my other post there are different types of pornstars and what works for some might not work so well for others. The reasons a girl might not do IR at all or choose to do it later in their career can be many and most of them have absolutely nothing to do with "racism". Porn is a business for hem first and foremost and they'll steer their career based on what they think will work best for them. Many girls enter the business and fall into certain sections of porn and just decide to stay with it for as long as they can. Click to expand I totally understand that this is a business for girls and they should treat it as such. I also know there are girls that have a certain look and may never get a high enough demand from an IR audience(For example: Nicole Anderson, Jesse Jane, Tera Patrick at least I was never attracted to these girls probably because they performed "Vanilla" scenes). Also, I'm able to separate reality from fantasy and know that just because a performer doesn.t work with a black male it doesn't make them racist. There are girls who get into porn and don't want to do any of the harder edged stuff and they happen to have the right look so they end up shooting lots of NAUGHTY AMERICA, GIRLFRIEND FILMS, DIGITAL PLAYGROUND, VIVID, or any of the long list of porn studios that shoot more "vanilla" porn and by the way don't use many black performers. That girl may be getting plenty of work from those studios get very comfortable shooting for those studios and have grown accustomed with the male talent they use and just don't see the need to venture away from them. At some point later down the road she may have to try different studios and a different type of porn but until then why leave what's she's comfortable with? Click to expand Here's where I have a problem with "vanilla" companies. If their scenes entail more sensual sex, then IR sex in this climate shouldn't have any more or less of an appeal to their audience. I more so blame the studios for their lack of hiring seasoned black male performers. Some girls don't do IR (or do more of it) because they aren't worth the cost to the director to put them in their movie. Ever notice that there are certain girls who only shoot IR for the big studios like JULES JORDAN but no one else? It probably because their rates are too high and their return is minimal. Click to expand If a is bringing back minimal return then that means their overall demand isn't very high in the first place. If a girl is offered to do an IR movie and she's been in for a while but there is no demand for her to do IR then why would she refuse to do IR in general? Wouldn't it make sense to for a girl to work with a company that is shooting an IR scene so that she can reach a brand new audience that may have previously had no interest in her or never knew her? Some don't do IR because they want to be perceived as a certain type of pornstar and only want to shoot for the high end studios that don't do the usual Gonzo type stuff. Click to expand Ah, so girls should cater to racist fans right? Pretty sure that market of people is shrinking RAPIDLY, like you said people that watch "vanilla" scenes don't generally care who the performer is. If a Prince, Lex, or Sean Michaels is paired up with a girl that only does "vanilla" scenes then they shouldn't have a reason to turn these seasoned performers down. I've seen girls who did lots of IR at the beginning of their career do make-over for themselves and that make-over included to stop or cur way down on the amount of IR they do and I have to admit with some I've seen their career do better without doing the IR or as much. Click to expand I've seen this as well, girls like Sophie Dee or Christie Stevens, a girl will get breast surgery or what not and then their careers take off. Although, it's not that the girl only targets IR in general it means that she's able to work with higher paying studios of ALL genres. Size. Some girls don't want to do IR because most of the black men in porn are big. Yeah, there are big white guys in porn too but some of those girls don't bang those guys either. Daisy Marie entered porn mostly doing IR but she has said she had to stop doing black guys because they were big and she'd be sore for the next few days and couldn't work so she stopped doing black guys because it wasn't worth it. It's possible that Daisy has done white guys later just a big as the black guys she did back then but it almost doesn't matter what the reality is her perception is the black guys were too big. And it's possible that's the perception of some of the girls who enter porn. So they don't do IR. Click to expand I understand this as stated by Noelle Easton, but this is where a yes and a no list comes in to play. Also, if a girl is becoming sore by working with bigger guys OFTEN then she there doesn't have to be a cut with only black guys , just a better management of who they work with and when. In the end there are lots of reasons why a girl may choose not to do IR and most of them aren't about them being racist. Click to expand I understand and agree for the most part, and we may never know everyone's true reason for doing certain things or not. However, the racist aspects of the industry can't be brushed aside so easily. @NigSquid [Link]
Curtom Deactivated User 293 Posts 8/14	Posted - Oct 19 2014 : 8:00AM Strange questions coming from someone who's making accusations without showing any evidence of his claims , but what amuses me the most is your question about the agents since you didn't bother to provide any name when you said this Click to expand Funny, I posted the link to several pornstars in the VERY FIRST POST on this thread. Stoya, Aurora Snow and Ace all corroborate what I'm saying. I've come across several others like Jodie Taylor and Raven Bay both said it in the BTS scenes at Dogfart.com. Lexington Steele, Mr Marcus, ,Tori Black, Bobbi Starr, Sean Michaels and Jon Jon all pointed to the agent problem in Black Listed #2, IR movie shot by white director Vince Vouyer. These are people within the industry, they know it better than anyone. I could go, but I would be here all day. For the other question , are you asking me to provide the names of those who abandoned the stars? Seriously? Do you take note of the followers of the star and notice who comes and goes? I surely don't and won't. Click to expand Then don't make claims you can't back up. These are all gonzo stars Draxxx already explained the difference between them and Vanilla contract stars the bigger of them were Jenna Jameson and Tera Patrick who never performed IR , also Vanilla are the most sold scenes , Vanilla Companies and sites are the biggest in the world big stars such as Jesse Jane , Riley Steele, Kayden Kross didn't perform IR . Click to expand Yet the world's 'biggest' porn companies failed their stars miserably, since none of the aforementioned have EVER won an AVN Female Performer of the year, NONE! Even the 'The Queen of Porn' the 'world's most famous adult-entertainment performer' fell short their buddy. Gonzo is a hugh portion of the adult industry, so don't underestimate it sir. Two of the examples you made , Julia and Lisa Ann were almost IR free in their contract days they become huge before doing IR. Click to expand I could give you long list of established stars who did plenty of interracial from the start, and were just as well-renowned. But many B and C starlet aren't this lucky , they have no bargaining power , they just cannot afford to lose the few follower they have. Click to expand When you compare like-for-like i.e. the biggest gonzo performers with the vanilla contract stars, the gonzo performers win hands down ( in terms of AVN Female Performers of the year). Edited by - Curtom on 10/19/2014 8:09:31 AM [Link]
Curtom Deactivated User 293 Posts 8/14	Posted - Oct 19 2014 : 8:16AM Zy28 wrote: Draxxx wrote: Guess what? There are girls who like anal. Yet the porn biz pays more for anal. So should the girls who like anal not get paid more for it because they like it? If they're able to get paid more for it, why shouldn't they? They're doing porn to make money. Why turn down the chance to make more based on whether they like it or not or based on what some people see as the "right" thing to do? First off, not all girls have IR as a last thing on their list and their list may contain a lonf list of stuff after IR that they'll never do. From what I see the list of girls who do IR is much longer than those who do DPs and/or gangbangs. And of the girls who do many have done IR before doing those things. In the end there are lots of reasons why a girl may choose not to do IR and most of them aren't about them being racist. Click to expand Anal is a scene that is more stressful than regular b/g so of course more pay makes sense. Getting more pay to work with Black talent on the other hand doesn't make sense as it's just a regular b/g scene. Also the core of the argument about why girls don't do IR is racism even if it's not about them personally being racist. After all there's a reason why this racial absurdity doesn't exist in other countries porn industries. Edited by - Zy28 on 10/18/2014 3:41:21 PM Click to expand My point, exactly. [Link]
Curtom Deactivated User 293 Posts 8/14	Posted - Oct 19 2014 : 8:19AM There aren't any contract girls on your list of winners. Click to expand My point is proven. Lastly, winning an award doesn't automatically mean the girl has the biggest audience or is the top paid girl. Click to expand Really, well if she isn't the 'biggest' or the 'top girl', then she is certainly the most recognised. [Link]
Curtom Deactivated User 293 Posts 8/14	Posted - Oct 19 2014 : 8:23AM Some people lump all black males together, some lump a certain type of black performer together That's the essence of racism, isn't that what we are challenges here? [Link]

Curtom Deactivated User 293 Posts 8/14	Posted - Oct 19 2014 : 8:34AM This isn't exclusive to porn. This isn't exculsive to only black men. It's the way some people react and think. Click to expand That's totally not true. How many girls have refused to work with any white guys because of a bad experience with one white guy. NONE. If you are a black guy, which it sounds like you are, I think you have been beaten down by racism/white supremacy so much so that you have become hopeless and helpless in believing you could defeat it. You are like many other black men that I see, they feel nihilistic and pessimistic about one day living in world where white supremacy no longer rules. Your tone sounds like you've internalised white supremacy so much so that you now see it as "the way some people react and think", without actually seeing it as a problem. Now don't get me wrong, it's better to be realistic than idealistic but that shouldn't hinder one's efforts to fight white supremacy, not let it fester. [Link]
Curtom Deactivated User 293 Posts 8/14	Posted - Oct 19 2014 : 8:45AM Click to expand I've seen this as well, girls like Sophie Dee or Christie Stevens, a girl will get breast surgery or what not and then their careers take off. Although, it's not that the girl only targets IR in general it means that she's able to work with higher paying studios of ALL genres. I didn't know Sophie Dee stop doing IR, did she really? I've notice that some like Rilynn Rae and Isis Love dropped off from IR. [Link]
LCF All-Star Member Non Prevalebunt! 10364 Posts 1/05	Posted - Oct 19 2014 : 9:26AM Curtom wrote: Strange questions coming from someone who's making accusations without showing any evidence of his claims , but what amuses me the most is your question about the agents since you didn't bother to provide any name when you said this Click to expand Funny, I posted the link to several pornstars in the VERY FIRST POST on this thread. Stoya, Aurora Snow and Ace all corroborate what I'm saying. I've come across several others like Jodie Taylor and Raven Bay both said it in the BTS scenes at Dogfart.com. Lexington Steele, Mr Marcus, ,Tori Black, Bobbi Starr, Sean Michaels and Jon Jon all pointed to the agent problem in Black Listed #2, IR movie shot by white director Vince Vouyer. These are people within the industry, they know it better than anyone. I could go, but I would be here all day. Click to expand None of them provided any name , and neither did you, a thousand people saying nothing doesn't make that nothing something For the other question , are you asking me to provide the names of those who abandoned the stars? Seriously? Do you take note of the followers of the star and notice who comes and goes? I surely don't and won't. Click to expand Then don't make claims you can't back up. Click to expand None of them provided any name , and neither did you, a thousand people saying nothing doesn't make that nothing something , so if you say my claims aren't backed up neither are yours. And I'm not even saying this is not true but with no names hence no evidence , no possibility to verify the claims out this is worth nothing I could put a long list of names , even very recent but I'm possibly the only one who noticed , but try for yourself look at some of the girls at Blacked and do some research , you will notice some of them ceased to work in June , short after their scenes came out , some of them ceased to perform IR , some did only that scene, one was regular in one site and now she disappeared from there. I can't demonstrate it's a duck , but it looks very much alike Curtom wrote: These are all gonzo stars Draxxx already explained the difference between them and Vanilla contract stars the bigger of them were Jenna Jameson and Tera Patrick who never performed IR , also Vanilla are the most sold scenes , Vanilla Companies and sites are the biggest in the world big stars such as Jesse Jane , Riley Steele, Kayden Kross didn't perform IR . Click to expand Yet the world's 'biggest' porn companies failed their stars miserably, since none of the aforementioned have EVER won an AVN Female Performer of the year, NONE! Even the 'The Queen of Porn' the 'world's most famous adult-entertainment performer' fell short their buddy. Gonzo is a hugh portion of the adult industry, so don't underestimate it sir. Click to expand So? They made several times the money those winners did, you think they care? I can list a number of stars who deserved such Award but never got one , and even though Iadmint that gonzo is a big part of porn Vanilla is way bigger and very less demanding Why on Earth if I make more money withouth even doing anal should I go get less to perform double anal, be spitted upn, be chocked, double and triple penetrated , get som foot long and beer can thick dick up my bowels, for what? An award? let me laugh. Two of the examples you made , Julia and Lisa Ann were almost IR free in their contract days they become huge before doing IR. Click to expand I could give you long list of established stars who did plenty of interracial from the start, and were just as well-renowned. Click to expand I could give you a list of as well renown who didn't and a even longer list of those who did but nobody know anything Curtom wrote: But many B and C starlet aren't this lucky , they have no bargaining power , they just cannot afford to lose the few follower they have. Click to expand When you compare like-for-like i.e. the biggest gonzo performers with the vanilla contract stars, the gonzo performers win hands down ( in terms of AVN Female Performers of the year). Click to expand look a my reply above, they may lose in terms of POTY awards , but their bank account is heavier in some case much heavier [Link]
LCF All-Star Member Non Prevalebunt! 10364 Posts 1/05	Posted - Oct 19 2014 : 9:35AM Curtom wrote: I didn't know Sophie Dee stop doing IR, did she really? I've notice that some like Rilynn Rae and Isis Love dropped off from IR. Click to expand Sophie Dee and Isis Love husbands are black ( respectively Lee Bang and Ethan Hunt) and Isis Love only performed IR with him so whatever the reason they definitely aren't racist Courtney Cummz dropped iR too, it is a woman who fucked blacks only before porn, again a woman who actually prefers blacks in her personal life can't be considered racist , so there might be something else. Edited by - LCF on 10/19/2014 9:48:43 AM [Link]
LCF All-Star Member Non Prevalebunt! 10364 Posts 1/05	Posted - Oct 19 2014 : 9:41AM Curtom wrote: There aren't any contract girls on your list of winners. Click to expand My point is proven. Lastly, winning an award doesn't automatically mean the girl has the biggest audience or is the top paid girl. Click to expand Really, well if she isn't the 'biggest' or the 'top girl', then she is certainly the most recognised. Click to expand The most recognized of all never did any IR and never won any award , even Janine who did try to revive her career doing IR failed , it added nothing to her notoriety or value nor, unlike Lisa and Julia Ann, brought her any more work than would have without. Also you can get any recognition you want, I'd rather take the money [Link]
LCF All-Star Member Non Prevalebunt! 10364 Posts 1/05	Posted - Oct 19 2014 : 9:47AM Curtom wrote: This isn't exclusive to porn. This isn't exculsive to only black men. It's the way some people react and think. Click to expand That's totally not true. How many girls have refused to work with any white guys because of a bad experience with one white guy. NONE. If you are a black guy, which it sounds like you are, I think you have been beaten down by racism/white supremacy so much so that you have become hopeless and helpless in believing you could defeat it. You are like many other black men that I see, they feel nihilistic and pessimistic about one day living in world where white supremacy no longer rules. Your tone sounds like you've internalised white supremacy so much so that you now see it as "the way some people react and think", without actually seeing it as a problem. Now don't get me wrong, it's better to be realistic than idealistic but that shouldn't hinder one's efforts to fight white supremacy, not let it fester. Click to expand There's a difference, a big one all those girls are sexually experienced , most likely they had several lovers , arguably all whites , they noticed first hand they're not the same, but if you hear rumors about some guys and then at your first attempt you find them true, you likely will give them all up. Those who are experienced with blacks in their personal life , never reacted like that. I'd call it ignorance rather than racism. There's a number of stars who refuse to work with guys who cross performed in gay or she-male porn , they're not categorized though if they were would you call it racism? [Link]
Draxxx Senior Member 3831 Posts 2/07	Posted - Oct 19 2014 : 10:26AM Dre AKA NigSquid wrote: If we're strictly talking about first times then I see no problem with a girl charging for a FIRST time doing sex acts on film.(i.e. 1st GG, BG, IR, Anal, DP, etc.). After a girl does a first then her OVERALL rate should change. If a girl would charge more to do IR each time she did an IR scene after her first time because the director would make more money from her doing IR is saying that all her IR scenes sell more than her Vanilla scenes(Which isn't the case as you pointed out). Click to expand All girls don't get paid more for IR scenes. Some girls ony get it for their first time only. Some girls may only get more money for it from certain directors. Some girls may get it every time if the director thinks she worth the extra money. Maybe she did it once and it worked out well for the director and he/she is willing to pay more to coax the girl into doing it again. There are different situations for different people. But what I keep seeing is people on this board keep saying white girls get paid more for IR like it applies to all white girls for all IR scenes like it's a porn standard. It isn't. Some people use a girl charging more for a IR scene as an excuse for them to ome down on them like they're horrible for doing so or that the porn biz is unfairly racist for allowing this to happen. In many or most cases it's a simple business decision. A business decision that fans don't need to be so concerned with. This is kind of the whole issue, taking out skin color defeats the issue. What's the fetish appeal of IR? seeing a girl take a huge dick while getting dominated by another man? If that's the case are girls getting paid more to work with Nacho, James Deen, Manuel, and Kierian Lee? Click to expand It only defeats the issue for people who insist that color is the only issue. Asking what the fetish appeal of IR is like asking and not understanding any other fetish. Why do some people like to see people tied up? Why do some people like to watch girls urinate? Why do some people like to see slapping and spiting? Why do some people like to see anal sex? People like what they like. They like seeing black guys with white women and seeng white guys do it doesn't give them the same thrill. We can get into theories why some people like seeing a big black guy dominate a little white girl but what's the point? We don't have to agree with it but we must accept that this what some people want to see. It's not a crime and it's not hurting anyone so what's the point of worrying about it. I should've expanded upon my point more here. I wasn't saying all girls have it last on their list, I was saying if a girl was increasing the amount of intense scenes that they do then why would a girl leave IR on the bottom of the list. For example, girls like Bonnie Rotten, Carter Cruise, Adrianna Chechik are know for their intense performances as they have done anal, multiple DPs, and Gang Bangs. Why would a performer increase the intensity of their scenes then have IR as the last "intense" "sex act" that they would perform? I know that girls like these are outliers, but that business model doesn't make sense. I know what to tell you. The girls you name have made their choice. I don't see it as right or wrong...it's simply their choice. I seems to be working out fine for them so I imagine they'll stick with it for the time being. Perhaps they'll never do an IR scene. Pehaps they have no problem doing the intense stuff or even like it but have no burning desire to do IR. Maybe at some point that will change...maybe not. Every girl is different and so is their business model. Doing lots of IR works well for girls like Lisa Ann and she's happy with her choices. Not doing IR works for the girls you name and they seem to be doing okay. When a girl enters porn there isn't a checklist of sex acts they have to perform and people they have to work with. They all steer their career based on what they want to do and when they think it's best to do it and the type of pornstar they want to be. Fans may not agree but it's not their choices to make. If a is bringing back minimal return then that means their overall demand isn't very high in the first place. If a girl is offered to do an IR movie and she's been in for a while but there is no demand for her to do IR then why would she refuse to do IR in general? Wouldn't it make sense to for a girl to work with a company that is shooting an IR scene so that she can reach a brand new audience that may have previously had no interest in her or never knew her? Click to expand LOL! There's no one blanket answer for some of these questions. Many girls have had career that did just fine without doing IR. Some girls work mostly for studios that don't do much or any IR so it's never been an issue for them. Some don't do it because they content doing what they do and the whole IR thing seems to such a big deal to some and not worth the hassle to deal with so they just avoid it. And of course...some girls just don't want to do IR at all. Ah, so girls should cater to racist fans right? Pretty sure that market of people is shrinking RAPIDLY, like you said people that watch "vanilla" scenes don't generally care who the performer is. If a Prince, Lex, or Sean Michaels is paired up with a girl that only does "vanilla" scenes then they shouldn't have a reason to turn these seasoned performers down. Click to expand I'm prety sure no girl enters the biz with the intention of catering to racist fans. I don't remember saying that "vanilla" audience doesn't care who the performer is. The "vanilla" audience I speak of as far as I can tell like watching the prettiest girls with the nicer looking guys having more conservative sex with some sort of story attached with higher production values. They don't seem to mind IR sex from time to time but don't seem to want it on a steady regular basis. I don't think that audience is demanding to see more IR in numbers big enough to make those studios do maore than they already do. I've seen this as well, girls like Sophie Dee or Christie Stevens, a girl will get breast surgery or what not and then their careers take off. Although, it's not that the girl only targets IR in general it means that she's able to work with higher paying studios of ALL genres. Click to expand Sophie had been in the porn game for quite awhile and to be able to sustain a career a girl with need to do a makeover every so often. Sophie's boobjob and new look gave her career a big shot in the arm and she started getting more work from the bigger major studios. Sometimes a girl will need to seperate herself from what she's done before to get people to look at them diferently and offer them different projects. Christy Stevens' career seemed to get stronger after she stopped doing IR but it's harder to tell if not doing IR had any major effect because she was still fairly new when she stopped. Maybe it did, maybe it didn't. The fact that she made the decision to stop doing it and even lie at one point and say she never did says that says that it's an issue for some directors/studios. [Link]
Draxxx Senior Member 3831 Posts 2/07	Posted - Oct 19 2014 : 10:32AM Curtom wrote: This isn't exclusive to porn. This isn't exculsive to only black men. It's the way some people react and think. Click to expand That's totally not true. How many girls have refused to work with any white guys because of a bad experience with one white guy. NONE. If you are a black guy, which it sounds like you are, I think you have been beaten down by racism/white supremacy so much so that you have become hopeless and helpless in believing you could defeat it. You are like many other black men that I see, they feel nihilistic and pessimistic about one day living in world where white supremacy no longer rules. Your tone sounds like you've internalised white supremacy so much so that you now see it as "the way some people react and think", without actually seeing it as a problem. Now don't get me wrong, it's better to be realistic than idealistic but that shouldn't hinder one's efforts to fight white supremacy, not let it fester. Click to expand Calm down. When I say it's not exclusive to porn I meant that people from all walks of life do the same thing and judge an entire race based on the actions of a few. It happens with all races. Not just blacks. Not just in porn. But thanks for making it very clear that you're quick to judge people harshly that you know very little about. Edited by - draxxx on 10/19/2014 10:42:36 AM [Link]
Draxxx Senior Member 3831 Posts 2/07	Posted - Oct 19 2014 : 10:34AM Curtom wrote: I didn't know Sophie Dee stop doing IR, did she really? I've notice that some like Rilynn Rae and Isis Love dropped off from IR. Click to expand Sophie Dee didn't stop doing IR. But she made the choice to cut down on the amount she did. [Link]
Draxxx Senior Member 3831 Posts 2/07	Posted - Oct 19 2014 : 10:37AM LCF wrote: Sophie Dee and Isis Love husbands are black ( respectively Lee Bang and Ethan Hunt)... Click to expand I think you mean Isis Taylor. [Link]

LCF All-Star Member Non Prevalebunt! 10364 Posts 1/05	Posted - Oct 19 2014 : 10:39AM ^ Yes I did , I got confused , I stand corrected , sorry Draxxx wrote: Calm down. When I say it's not exclusive to porn I meant that people from all walks of life do the same thing and judge an entire race based on the actions of a few. It happens with all races. Not just blacks. Not just in porn. Click to expand For example whites are seen as former slavers even though in Europe we never had racial slavery and many of our Countries never had lands overseas , some don't even have any sea. Edited by - LCF on 10/19/2014 10:44:26 AM [Link]
misspornUSA Senior Member I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13	Posted - Oct 19 2014 : 11:32AM LCF wrote: I could put a long list of names , even very recent but I'm possibly the only one who noticed , but try for yourself look at some of the girls at Blacked and do some research , you will notice some of them ceased to work in June , short after their scenes came out , some of them ceased to perform IR , some did only that scene, one was regular in one site and now she disappeared from there. Click to expand This is very surprising to me. [Link]
LCF All-Star Member Non Prevalebunt! 10364 Posts 1/05	Posted - Oct 19 2014 : 11:47AM ^ It was to me too , I actually was looking for stars who basically disappear and I wanted to find more of them , the more I searched the more shocked I was, try here , of course the other scenes came out some time after they've been shot , so give them a month more,but still they're all close to their scenes at Blacked, mind you I'm not saying blacked has anything to do with this, it was just the site I used for comparison once i saw something strange. There may be other reasons for that, maybe a star is doing stuff for her site , went on hiatus , retired for other reasons, but still considering the relatively low amount of stars they have so far, the percentage of those vanished or stopped doing IR is frightening high Edited by - LCF on 10/19/2014 11:54:58 AM [Link]
Curtom Deactivated User 293 Posts 8/14	Posted - Oct 19 2014 : 4:28PM look a my reply above, they may lose in terms of POTY awards , but their bank account is heavier in some case much heavier Click to expand Really, your telling me to find names of agents who dissuade girls from doing interracial, yet I know for damn sure you won't be able to provide direct evidence that pornstars who do vanilla contract work earn more that their gonzo peers. Isn't that the reasoning I was using to show you people in the industry say it's the agents dissuading the girls to do interracial, but not actual names? Look, a lot of them will say they earn more doing vanilla but they don't present to you any research for proof (I'm not saying they don't, I believe they do earn more because most say it, they are insiders they know better). [Link]
Curtom Deactivated User 293 Posts 8/14	Posted - Oct 19 2014 : 4:34PM LCF wrote: Curtom wrote: I didn't know Sophie Dee stop doing IR, did she really? I've notice that some like Rilynn Rae and Isis Love dropped off from IR. Click to expand Sophie Dee and Isis Love husbands are black ( respectively Lee Bang and Ethan Hunt) and Isis Love only performed IR with him so whatever the reason they definitely aren't racist Courtney Cummz dropped iR too, it is a woman who fucked blacks only before porn, again a woman who actually prefers blacks in her personal life can't be considered racist , so there might be something else. Edited by - LCF on 10/19/2014 9:48:43 AM Click to expand I said Isis Love, NOT Isis Taylor! But did Sophie Dee really drop IR? [Link]
Curtom Deactivated User 293 Posts 8/14	Posted - Oct 19 2014 : 4:38PM LCF wrote: Curtom wrote: There aren't any contract girls on your list of winners. Click to expand My point is proven. Lastly, winning an award doesn't automatically mean the girl has the biggest audience or is the top paid girl. Click to expand Really, well if she isn't the 'biggest' or the 'top girl', then she is certainly the most recognised. Click to expand The most recognized of all never did any IR and never won any award , even Janine who did try to revive her career doing IR failed , it added nothing to her notoriety or value nor, unlike Lisa and Julia Ann, brought her any more work than would have without. Also you can get any recognition you want, I'd rather take the money Click to expand So what is doing vanilla contract about, you guys seem conflicted about what these types of stars want out of their careers, is it money? fame? or something other? [Link]
LCF All-Star Member Non Prevalebunt! 10364 Posts 1/05	Posted - Oct 19 2014 : 4:39PM ^ direct evidence ? what do you want from me their taxes declaration? Why do you think most stars are lining up to get a contract? To earn less? C'mon you can't be serious also I'm only countering YOUR claims here and you didn't provide any figure yet, nor names you're claiming from the original post about agents frightening the stars from IR but neither you nor your sources gave us any names , yet you asked ME to provide some Curtom wrote: ... Whose agent 'wiped them out' when they did interracial? ... Click to expand and now you say you have no names, have no clue about who they are and and basically rule out my question about who they are as absurd Seriously? [Link]
LCF All-Star Member Non Prevalebunt! 10364 Posts 1/05	Posted - Oct 19 2014 : 4:41PM Curtom wrote: I said Isis Love, NOT Isis Taylor! But did Sophie Dee really drop IR? Click to expand I've been already corrected ,about Sophie no she just slowed down [Link]
LCF All-Star Member Non Prevalebunt! 10364 Posts 1/05	Posted - Oct 19 2014 : 4:49PM Curtom wrote: LCF wrote: Curtom wrote: There aren't any contract girls on your list of winners. Click to expand My point is proven. Lastly, winning an award doesn't automatically mean the girl has the biggest audience or is the top paid girl. Click to expand Really, well if she isn't the 'biggest' or the 'top girl', then she is certainly the most recognised. Click to expand The most recognized of all never did any IR and never won any award , even Janine who did try to revive her career doing IR failed , it added nothing to her notoriety or value nor, unlike Lisa and Julia Ann, brought her any more work than would have without. Also you can get any recognition you want, I'd rather take the money Click to expand So what is doing vanilla contract about, you guys seem conflicted about what these types of stars want out of their careers, is it money? fame? or something other? Click to expand None of us is conflicted but you don't seem to know what being a contract star means , they work less , in less demanding scenes and are paid more , have to represent the company at events and signing days , during all the contract time they don't have to look for work it comes in by itself. Like ANY pornstar in the business they want everything they could get , but mostly money, being a contract star gives you ,money, fame exposition over the media and other opportunities you won't get otherwise. Unless you think that the maximum ambition of a pornstar is to win an anal award taking Mandingo and Danny D up the ass in DAP [Link]
Curtom Deactivated User 293 Posts 8/14	Posted - Oct 19 2014 : 4:50PM There's a difference, a big one all those girls are sexually experienced , most likely they had several lovers , arguably all whites , they noticed first hand they're not the same, but if you hear rumors about some guys and then at your first attempt you find them true, you likely will give them all up. Those who are experienced with blacks in their personal life , never reacted like that. I'd call it ignorance rather than racism. Click to expand Fair point. There's a number of stars who refuse to work with guys who cross performed in gay or she-male porn , they're not categorized though if they were would you call it racism? This is the classic example of comparing apples to oranges. If a male performer chooses to work with other men for pay, and then gets turned down for work with straight scenes that's on him. Black men are not at fault for being born black. Now you may respond my pointing out that gay-for-pay performers suffer discrimination in the industry as well, you are right but there's a good reason the straight side of the industry frowns upon gay-for-pay performers, they gay-for-pay side doesn't have regular testing like the straight side. So there is a general rejection of those that do gay-for-pay in the straight side because they yearn for clean performers. [Link]
LCF All-Star Member Non Prevalebunt! 10364 Posts 1/05	Posted - Oct 19 2014 : 4:59PM ^ Isn't discrimination toward gay or bisexuals a discrimination all the same? A lesbian actress has been harassed as racist and sexist because she refused to work with a transsexual whom they considered female but not her Anyway my point was that there are guys who are rejected thus have a lack of opportunities but this seems to bother nobody Edited by - LCF on 10/19/2014 5:01:41 PM [Link]
Curtom Deactivated User 293 Posts 8/14	Posted - Oct 19 2014 : 5:00PM None of them provided any name , and neither did you, a thousand people saying nothing doesn't make that nothing something Click to expand If a thousand pornstars say that agents dictate what they can and can't do in certain acts, I'm inclined to believe bruh. What would be their vested interest be to lie, they are insiders, they have way more knowledge of that industry then you and I. If ten witnesses (from differing angles) to a police shooting, whom don't know each other, say they saw a police officer unload 6 bullets into an unarmed male, whilst he surrendered, that's a complete corroboration of potential murder case [Link]
LCF All-Star Member Non Prevalebunt! 10364 Posts 1/05	Posted - Oct 19 2014 : 5:05PM ^ If they all can't describe him that would be nothing usable in a court , in fact there would be no proof that was an actual officer and there's no thousand stars claiming anything of that sort, I'm hearing this thing about agents for years now but no name ever came out . I'm not even saying it's not true but who the hell are they? There's a crime but no culprit? [Link]
Curtom Deactivated User 293 Posts 8/14	Posted - Oct 19 2014 : 5:15PM Calm down. When I say it's not exclusive to porn I meant that people from all walks of life do the same thing and judge an entire race based on the actions of a few. It happens with all races. Not just blacks. Not just in porn. But thanks for making it very clear that you're quick to judge people harshly that you know very little about. Edited by - draxxx on 10/19/2014 10:42:36 AM [/quote] Sir, yoy are being very disingenuous with the argument at hand. I'm talking about racism porn, black men are the ones getting railroaded by the industry, their the only ones that have to accept being second class citizens in this industry. I'll say it once more, and only once more, white/latin/asian men are NEVER declined work because of their race/ethnicity, and furthermore a whole racial/ethnic group are not singled out for the poor behaviour on set of a few, other than black men. [Link]
Curtom Deactivated User 293 Posts 8/14	Posted - Oct 19 2014 : 5:20PM LCF wrote: ^ It was to me too , I actually was looking for stars who basically disappear and I wanted to find more of them , the more I searched the more shocked I was, try here , of course the other scenes came out some time after they've been shot , so give them a month more,but still they're all close to their scenes at Blacked, mind you I'm not saying blacked has anything to do with this, it was just the site I used for comparison once i saw something strange. There may be other reasons for that, maybe a star is doing stuff for her site , went on hiatus , retired for other reasons, but still considering the relatively low amount of stars they have so far, the percentage of those vanished or stopped doing IR is frightening high Edited by - LCF on 10/19/2014 11:54:58 AM Click to expand Which stars 'disappeared'? [Link]
Curtom Deactivated User 293 Posts 8/14	Posted - Oct 19 2014 : 5:24PM direct evidence ? what do you want from me their taxes declaration? Why do you think most stars are lining up to get a contract? To earn less? C'mon you can't be serious Click to expand I agree that they probably earn more. also I'm only countering YOUR claims here and you didn't provide any figure yet, nor names you're claiming from the original post about agents frightening the stars from IR but neither you nor your sources gave us any names , yet you asked ME to provide some Click to expand I didn't say anything about the agents 'frightening' them, I said that agents mislead them from doing it. [Link]

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