Reviewers Recommend My First Sex Teacher 88 - review by Captain Jack Starring: Kayla Paige, Skylar Snow, Rachael Cavalli, Armani Black [I] (2020s), Bunny Madison. Read review
I'm sorry, it's not. I want to fight racism as much as anyone, but you can't go along doing it this way. Sexual preferences are personal and they vary a LOT from person to person. Yes, some girls are probably racists considering its a statistical given. But you can't label everyone who won't do IR and you can't demand that they do IR. A girl can prefer white guys because she truly does that. Some girls who prefer white guys will refuse to do IR, some will still do it. Some of those who refuse to, might very well prefer a black guy over a specific white guy, but they are just going by what they are comfortable with when the list their availability with their agent. I have my own preferences when it comes to girls. I love girls of all races but I do have some other preferences when it comes to looks and traits they were born with. Simply, as long as it comes down to her preferences and you can't prove that it racism, there's not much you can do. Sure, it's frustrating since some of them may have racist attitudes, but you can never know. Some girls might dislike the kind of movies that black male stars are often cast in and choose to opt out because of that. I don't know, neither do you.
[Link]
the unknown pervert Deactivated User
I'd like to stay but I've got a plane to catch. 3243 Posts 5/06
^^^The best evidence concludes that sexual orientations is biological. Are you homophobic?
[Link]
Pentasa Deactivated User
233 Posts 9/08
Posted - Feb 21 2009 : 10:33PM
There are different reasons for a girl opting not to do IR and racism may be one of them. Just merely stating that she wont do IR doesn't make her a racist unless you have some supernatural power to read her mind. If a girl says she'd fuck an animal before BM, then shes either crazy or brutally honest - meaning she practises bestiality. If a girl says she finds BM unattractive then goes and fucks Dave Hardman, Rod Fontana or Ron Jeremy, then I would consider her crazy and racist. Most girls talk of pacing themselves ie maximising money-making opportunities by draining the white male majority first, then others. Thats fine but I just hope that there's no self-respecting BM standing at the end of the line to fuck a used up residue like you. Then there are those that claim the BM cock size would hurt them. Truth is not all BM are overly endowed. Last time I checked, the vagina was the most elastic organ in the whole human body. Just check out BrutalDildos.com. Then there are some that claim their families would be upset to see her do IR. Why did you get into porn in the first place? Your family should be charged for pimpin you. Some quote bad behavior by BM. Truth is porn has its share of bad apples - black and white. Fortunately, the good outnumber the bad. Read Devon Lees post above. Even some say they dont like the BM ghetto stereotype with movie titles like BBC in tight White slutz etc. Truth is, I've seen more demeaning titles with white-on-white porn. Some quote personal hygiene but again that is personal... I could go on and on but its not worth my time. Again I say, support the girls that do IR and there are many hot girls who do IR from the outset these days. Stop wishin for somethin you cant have and speak up with your wallet!!
You don't do more with less, you do less with less. 61 Posts 1/09
Posted - Feb 21 2009 : 10:48PM
There are too many women who DO IR to be worried about the ones that don't. To be honest, it used to bother me a little bit to hear women exclude black men, but it is what it is. The number of women that like us--on camera and off--far exceeds the number who don't. Everybody has their preferences and forcing a girl to perform with a guy she doesn't want to is a recipe for disaster and a potential waste of money.
Pentasa, Game Set Match. I agree with 100% of that post It's pretty much pointless to have this debate on this forum. Neither side will budge. I've been trying to say of the negative IR thread and focus on my positive IR thread. If a starlet doesn't want to do IR, that's fine it's her choice. It's all part of the game.But don't give any of the those bullshit excuses. Just say you don't do IR and let that be the end of it. Oh, this "I won't have sex with a guy, so am I a homophobe?" is the stupidest fucking argument ever. Do you seriously equate sexin up the same sex with sexin someone with a different skin tone? If yes, you're gay by your own definition. Becuase everyman has thought about sexin up someone of a different race. Edited by - royal tee on 2/21/2009 11:15:41 PM
I actually like your work a lot Devon, but the right to choose has never been an argument to me. It's a performers body and thus their chose. My problem and issue has always been discrimination, nothing more, nothing less. I suppose in porn the line can be very fine, since porn clearly is a different kind of business. Everything I've heard leads me to believe it is indeed a true legit business, well at least in California. I simply don't believe porn, as a business, has anymore right to discriminate then any other business. If a performer shows up after being told he or she is gonna work/fuck that day, then he or she gets fired after a performer refuses to work with them because of the color of their skin, I can't understand how that's not discrimination. Now truthfully 99.9% of the time it's probably not gonna happen like that, making the issue moot, but if it does, how is it different? What it's considered different because it's porn and not another kind business? Edited by - aplus on 2/22/2009 12:01:37 AM
^ I think you answered your own question. 99.9% of the time it doesn't work like that. In fact, these days because everyone's model card is properly filled out stating who does and doesn't do IR, you can change that 99.9% to 100%. In other words, it will never happen like that.
[Link]
the unknown pervert Deactivated User
I'd like to stay but I've got a plane to catch. 3243 Posts 5/06
Posted - Feb 22 2009 : 9:33AM
So say you were someone with a fetish for these pasty porcelain white goth girls, would that make you a racist? What about someone who prefers Oriental women, would they be racist? If men can have preferences over the look of their sexual partner and no one gives them shit about it then why do women get this crap every time a thread like this comes up?
I will try to end this hypocritical non-sense thread. How about dwarves and midgets? I know there are many IR queens(actually most of them) who refuse to do dwarves(Lauren Phoenix for one). If it is just a job as some of you claim then discrimination based on height and genetics is just as wrong AND illlegal.(dude, if you turn down an applicant because he is a dwarf you very likely will have a meeting with the department of justice) If you want to rail against women not doing black men, you should do the same for those who refuse to do midgets and that means at least a half of the women in the industry. I forget her name but there was an IR queen during the 90's who pompously moralized against others who would not do black men yet she so callously crapped on midgets and dwarves. Things like that always crack me up, man.
[Link]
Pentasa Deactivated User
233 Posts 9/08
Posted - Feb 22 2009 : 11:44AM
There are glaringly obvious and fundamental differences between a BM pornstar (like Lex Steele) and a midget but it seems your dumb ignorant self cant tell. How pathetic! I strongly suspect Wankamer is a midget himself! Care to name 10 midget pornstars that are as popular as Jack Napier, Mr Marcus or Sean Michael? Whats the market share of midget porn compared to IR? Is midget porn as popular as IR porn? I think not. Why would adult studios pay girls to fuck midgets when there's no market for such a product? I dread to think what your brainless self will compare BM to next!!
edit Obviously midget porn generates sales, that is why producers keep asking the girls to do it(old enough to remember Napoleon and Zane?). Perhaps BMWF IR has a bigger market share, but then again WMWF has an even bigger share of the market. This means you should just shut up if a girl or a studio decides to shun one in order to protect the other. Get it? I doubt it. And what the hell are the "glaringly obvious and fundamental differences"? Some find midgets intriguing and sexually stimulating(even some pornstars like Melanie Moore.) ,while others find them repulsive just as some white girls don't find black men attractive but love Ron Jeremy. Midgets and black men both have the full human rights, discriminating against one group is just as immoral as doing the same for the other group. As for the childish accusation of my being a midget... it is not any more insulting than being a black man. Or better it is not insulting at all, it is just not true much the same way it is not true that I am a black man.
Well according so someone on this board, it already has. And I've seen enough BTS footage to know poor planning and communication does happen. I've lost count of how many times I've heard a performer say they had no idea who they were working with that day, although admittedly nothing I can recall recently.
^Well that example listed happened quite a long time ago (if it indeed happened as the poster claims it did). As for performers not knowing who they're working with, and performers being switched for other performers due to flaking, etc - that happens all the time. But because everything is so separated now, it will never happen that a BM would be substituted for a WM, suddenly making the scene IR. Or that an IR scene was planned and when the WF didn't show up, they called up a WF who doesn't do IR. It's all just too clear by the model cards that are posted online for everyone to see instantly. It would never happen.
Pentasa and Wargamer, drop the ridiculous insults and the argument that isn't going anywhere. Notice I've edited out the insults. DON'T put them back in.
LOL man. So "your brainless self" is not an insult?(that is why you left it out? while my accusing him of trying a "spiffy comeback" was so egregious that it had to be edited out?) You sure will never be accused of impartiality.
^ wargamer I deleted his entire post. You got off far easier. Stop whining. [edit: oh I see what you're talking about. warmager, I only went back to his last post and yours. Yours I edited, his i deleted entirely. That comment you mention was in his post before the one I deleted. I'm sure there are several things from both of your posts going back a ways that I could have edited, but I can't be bothered. I just looked at the most recent one from each of you.] Edited by - killbillvol69 on 2/22/2009 2:17:37 PM
[Link]
tritone Deactivated User
1009 Posts 4/03
Posted - Feb 22 2009 : 2:09PM
You know what, while I agree with JohnW that you can't necessarily use logic when discerning personal preferences, this kind of counter to not doing IR has always struck me as dishonest. I think it is REASONABLE to assume that the leap from going hetero to homo is larger than that of simply having sex with someone of a different race. Let me ask you a better question. Do you agree that there are beautiful women all over the world. Would you say, without a dobut, that you would never have sex with a specific race of woman? This is the more equivalent argument.
Edited by - tritone on 2/22/2009 2:30:35 PM
[Link]
the unknown pervert Deactivated User
I'd like to stay but I've got a plane to catch. 3243 Posts 5/06
Posted - Feb 22 2009 : 10:45PM
I can't say I would but like I pointed out earlier there are men who are into Oriental women and Oriental women only, there are men who are into blondes and blondes only, there are men who are into black women and black women only, there are men who are into Middle Eastern women and Middle Eastern women only, etc. etc. These men are not classified as racist why should a woman who might have similar sexual views be branded as such. There is a difference between not wanting to fuck someone and feeling someone is genetically or intellectually inferior to you based on the color of their skin. I'm sure there are many women scientists (physicists in particular) who have great respect for Stephen Hawking but would not be the least interested in fucking him.
^ The argument being presented above, and in TUP's other posts as well as the posts of some others both in this thread and in many threads before, basically comes down to the following: "We can't blame a woman if she's not attracted to black men. She shouldn't be punished for that." This argument is predicated on a fallacy. It takes for granted that the woman works with men she is attracted to. When women are booked through their agencies, if their model cards don't say that they do IR, then they will be booked to work with a non-black guy. Not a guy on their "No-List", of course, but any other non-black guy could be booked. Often the girl doesn't even know who it will be until she shows up at the shoot (especially with the newer girls). So what we're saying here is that with the exception of some specific men with whom she has prior negative experience, the woman is willing and prepared to fuck any man with a positive test, so long as he's not black. So, you tell me which case is more likely: 1. Approximately 70% of the non-black women in porn (the number, according to the model sites, of non-black women who don't do IR) find every non-black man on the planet attractive, and at the same time also find every black man on the planet unattractive. 2. The argument presented by TUP and others is bullshit. [edit: left out a word] Edited by - killbillvol69 on 2/23/2009 12:16:06 AM
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Feb 23 2009 : 1:26AM
Exactly, as if the girls are only performing with guys they find attractive: how many have fucked Ed Power, Rodney Moore, Dirty Harry, Dick Nasty or Ron Jeremy?
Did you read my post? If a non-black women doesnt do IR, it's her choice. I just dislike the lame ass excuses about why they dont it. "hey do you do IR?", "nope" and let that me the end of it. That feeling extendeds to both sides. To the starlets and the fans.
[Link]
tritone Deactivated User
1009 Posts 4/03
Posted - Feb 23 2009 : 3:07AM
Honestly, I think the truth here is very ugly but something we must come to grips with. We must accept that there are perhaps many strata of "attractiveness" that a porn actress employs. She is working with 3 standards: Guys she would date/marry, guys she would fuck on a whim, and then guys she would *TOLERATE FUCKING* for money. The porn standard is the last item. When she has to WORK, she is willing to lower her attractiveness standard, but only to a point. She won't cross a certain line. And maybe that line is black. It is entirely possible, but very hard to admit, that she would not fuck ANY black person no matter what. That the most hideous white man is still preferable to an ADONIS-like black male. I mean, the most GQ, clean cut, "10" brother in the world just wouldn't be acceptable over Dirty Harry. It sounds outrageous, but it might be true. I have no idea what it's like to be a white person and have those feelings. Personally, I am happy to be black. I don't feel like I am better than anyone and I find beauty in all races. Edited by - tritone on 2/23/2009 3:13:23 AM
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Feb 23 2009 : 3:19AM
Come on, when did you become an advocate for performer's rights? The porn biz is all about women having sex with men they don't want to have sex with. Funny that this is the one issue that you suddenly become sympathetic to the plight of the female performers, if it was about them refusing anal, facials, B/G, or DPs I doubt you'd be jumping in to defend them. Edited by - BlackSix on 2/23/2009 3:22:48 AM
Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son. 1048 Posts 7/04
Posted - Feb 23 2009 : 3:35AM
Show me one post where I demanded or disparaged any woman who did not perform any of the sexual acts you mentioned. It will take you quite a while because there aren't any. Anyways there are probably some porn chicks who won't do i.r. because they are uncomfortable with it because some of their family and/or friends would give them shit about being a president lover and they don't want to put up with that.
I've always figured theres 3 reasons a women(and guys for that matter) wont go multiracial.... 1. Family. If they raised you to only date your race, or excluded you from dating other races, then odds are you wont ever date or have sex with another race. 2. Environment. If you come from an area that is predominantly your race and they think like number 1, then once again you odds are wont date another race. 3. Fear/Preference. The person hides behind a preference of their own race(or another race possibly) and avoids any other races due to once again number 1 or #2. These are all IMO, as its what I've noticed the most after all the years. SO I'm not saying this is 100% fact. Before someone replies on this please understand this and try not to flame me for an opinion that I have JUST stated is not true. I KNOW how some ppl love to read part of a post and jump the gun and post.
So their parents are happy with them doing everything under the sun, DP's, Blowbangs,Bukkake etc. but when they fuck a black dude the red flag goes up lol. The family is okay with them getting pissed and crapped on but having sex with a black man is unreasonable. Okay. These people look at black men as the bottom of the bucket in the industry. You fuck a black man and then you're not good enough for them. You're "tainted" and not worthy enough to sit on top. There have been chicks out there that said they will fuck a dog but wont do an IR scene.
[Link]
Fernandez Deactivated User
781 Posts 12/08
Posted - Feb 23 2009 : 8:19AM
Is it Groundhog Day?
[Link]
the unknown pervert Deactivated User
I'd like to stay but I've got a plane to catch. 3243 Posts 5/06
Posted - Feb 23 2009 : 8:58AM
[IR fanbois] I'm am tolerant and supportive of every choice and decision a porn star makes, as long as they choose and decide to do everything I want them to.[/IR fanbois]
[Link]
Rosco Fuji Deactivated User
On the licking stick, Mr. Magic Dick! 3309 Posts 2/09
Posted - Feb 23 2009 : 10:29AM
Or maybe the reason is the girl just doesn't want to have sex with black guys. Maybe they think the whole idea is gross. Let's have a show of hands on this thread. How many of you have had sex with a black guy, and why or why not?
I don't think anyone's saying that. OK maybe someone's saying that, I'm not sure. I know I'm not saying that. The rest can come here and confirm or deny for themselves. What I'm saying is that the argument about "maybe she's just not attracted to black guys" is bullshit, for the reasons I laid out in my last post. What does that mean? Does that mean that I'm saying all girls should do IR? No. I'm saying that the particular reason being given for why they don't is bullshit. So stop using it. As I've argued in the past, I'm not trying to convince anyone to go black if they don't want to. I just don't want to be lied to when they tell me why. I'm not even saying they have to give me a reason why. But if they do give me a reason, don't give me a bullshit reason. And that reason is a bullshit reason. [edit: typos, line break problems] Edited by - killbillvol69 on 2/23/2009 10:31:48 AM
@Rosco Fuji: your post is essentially the same argument that was offered above by some others, incuding TUP. Please see my post above from Feb 23 2009, 12:14:45 AM.
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Feb 24 2009 : 2:46AM
Show me one where you defended a performer for refusing to do any of those things, which is what I said. But you always pop into every thread about IR to declare it pointless. I agree to a degree but then why are you always looking and posting in them? I don't see the harm in mocking or questioning these girls pathetic rationalizations. If they were up front and said that they were from the south or whatever and their families would disown them, that would be one thing, although the absurdity of a white trash family who have no problem with their daughter/sister doing a gangbang or eating cumfarts but draw the line at fucking a 'negro' is again so ridiculous that I can't how one can't laugh at it. Edited by - BlackSix on 2/24/2009 3:10:11 AM
Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son. 1048 Posts 7/04
Posted - Feb 24 2009 : 3:08AM
Because out of all the stupid threads on this board the "she won't do IR" genre are the most hilarious. People almost literally wanting to make a federal case out of it. They are worthy of my presence.
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Feb 24 2009 : 3:14AM
If you're looking for laughs how come you never post in the 'dirty anal and leakage' thread? [:p)]
[Link]
Fernandez Deactivated User
781 Posts 12/08
Posted - Feb 24 2009 : 4:14AM
The leakage thread at least contains some intelligent thought!
[Link]
NewRomancer Deactivated User
under THEIR avatar 738 Posts 7/08
Posted - Feb 24 2009 : 11:35AM
"I don't see the harm in mocking or questioning these girls pathetic rationalizations." What makes you think they have to justify anything to you? or indeed to anyone who isn't signing their pay cheques....
If you don't like that a girl is not doing IR - don't buy her movies. Don't go to forums like this and cry about it instead. Some will do anal - some will not. Some will do IR - some will not. Some will get a boob job - some will not. It's the girls decision - not yours. Why they don't want to do certain things is not your business.
Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son. 1048 Posts 7/04
Posted - Feb 24 2009 : 4:27PM
Mostly because that subject matter is not something I am into. Now while the subject of this thread is not something I particularly care about it's just so damn hilarious seeing some people treat this as a major breach of the Civil Rights Act of 1964
I just thought I'd point out the correct definition of a "preference", because a lot of people seem to misunderstand exactly what having a "preference" actually means. A preference denotes a leaning towards (or preferring one thing over another), NOT exclusivity. I may "prefer" Coke, but I'll still drink Pepsi. So if you say you "prefer" blondes (for example), but would NEVER fuck anyone who wasn't blonde... then that's not a preference. Edited by - xxaru on 2/24/2009 4:55:28 PM
I think people clamoring for a "solution" are barking up the wrong tree. It would be immoral to force anyone to do any sex act they don't wish to. Performers should have complete control over who they have sex with, for whatever reason they choose. At the same time, there is definitely racist discrimination against Black men involved. When Black men are singled out as the only untouchable weird race, then yeah there's something strange going on, which I think is uniquely American. As people have noted before, the same IR hangups don't seem to exist in Europe/Asia, and where they do, I'd suspect they were imported from American/Western cultural attitudes. Really I have no data though and I'm not suggesting Europe is any more or less racist than America; but there's a definite difference in the willingness of foreign performers to do IR and native Americans. This topic is obviously a popular one so I think people should be able to discuss it freely without people coming in here to talk about how dumb the topic is. That's not helpful to the discussion. People tired of hearing about it should either get the mods to sticky one "racism in IR porn" megathread or just get the topic banned from discussion.
The thing is in 2009 this topic is just unbelievable to me. When someone is breaking into the business and they believe doing interracial will hurt their career, I put 100% of the blame on the production company's who make that a reality. But when these blond contract girls who names start with J and have worked with 100 different guys, but somehow haven't done ir, it tells me a lot about who they are as a person, and it is sickening to me, if one of them starts naming performers they don't want to work with and have specific reasons, that is absolutely their right and I support them 100%, but when they just say I am not going to work with a person solely based on skin color, that is a serious character flaw and tells me that person is deeply troubled. The that's the way I was raised argument is a joke, my mother was extremely racist but at age 5 I knew she was wrong, you don't universally hate any group except the French. People stop believing a fat old man climbs down there chimmly every Dec 25th, why do they still believe the racist crap they are told.
"Survive the droughts, I wish you well"........ Jay Z, American Dreamin 56 Posts 2/09
Posted - Feb 24 2009 : 11:10PM
I dont think it is particularly meaningful to explore the reasons these girls wont do interracial. I have a theory, but its not important. What is important is that we call it what it is - Bigotry. Btw the homosexual analogy is not valid. Look I have a preferences about women I would like to have sex with, but there are no races that are so inherently repulsive to me that no female member of that race could be attractive enough for me to have sex with. The question, to my mind, comes down to what discriminations are legitimate, and, are there any illegitimate discriminations. Now for me, there are no men, animals, or family members that I am willing to have sex with. Its theoretcally possible for a family member to want to have sex with me and feel discriminated against because of my position against having sex with family members. If you feel that a member of my family, or a dog, or man that wants to have sex with me has a legitimate gripe against me, then your view that women that refuse to do interracial is not acting inappropriately is at least consistent. You believe there are no legitimate discriminations. In other words you believe there are no legitimate reasons to refuse a whole group for sex. If however you believe I have the right to refuse either of those groups, then you believe that there are some legitimate discriminations. Presumably, you also think that there are some illegitimate discriminations. For instance lets say I am a performer that refused to even participate in a movie that contained actors of a certain race, whether I had sex with them or not, or dealt with them at all. That, Im sure we can all agree would be an illegitimate discrimination. So most of us are going to agree that there are some legitimate discrimination and some illegitimate ones. We as a society have to make those determinations. Its going to be a largely subjective one. There will be no right or wrong answer. The question we have to answer is what does freedom mean to us. Whats right for us. Which brings me back to porn. The question the porn industry has to answer is whether it is legitimate for a sex worker to refuse an entire race. I think the part of answer is based upon whether the sex is professional or personal. If it is personal all we can do as a society is impose shame. We can determine that we think it is indecent for a person to swear off members of a certain race. However, that would be the extent to which a free society can coerce its opinion. However if the sex is professional, we are faced with uncharted territory. Legal commercial sex is a very new social construct. In the professional realm, the societies ability to coerce its opinion upon people is much greater. But we have never done that with regard to sex before; make people have sex with people they would rather not. It seems to me that if you consider sex work as sex, then you apply personal rules. If however, you consider it to be work you apply professional rules. So why should a straight male sex worker be able to refuse all men, or family member, or dogs, but not be able to refuse a particular race of women? I cant really answer that question. But I'll tell you this. This issue is considered in a vaccum. I look at the society we live in and make a judgement. This country has a history of discrimination on the basis of race, sex, religion, sexual orientation etc. If you tell me you dont want to have sex with me because you are my cousin, and you dont have sex with family members, Im okay with that. If you are a dog and tell me that you dont have sex outside of your species. I can live with that. If you tell me that you are a lesbian and you dont have sex with men, I can live with that too. But if you tell me that you will swallow the cum of any other race of men but will not fuck a black man, I think its because you think black people are inferior. That is the history in the society. Some discriminations are legitimate, some are not. And within the context of our experience here in america that sort of discrimination is more deleterious to what we are trying to accomplish - a color blind society. The gay analogy falls apart because the gay plea has never been about homosexuals attemting to an sexual orientation neutral society. Gay people arent marching because they think the distinction between staright in gay is non existent they are marching because they dont want to be handicapped in our society because their orientation is different than that of he majority. But no one seriously believes that there are significant distinctions based on race that are more than skin deep. The view that there is, is more repugnant to our society. Thats why a red flag must be raised when a woman refuses to perform her work on a any member of of a certain race. If porn is going to be a considered a serious industry its must begin living p to the standards that every other industry has to deal with. In this culture, "I just dont like that race" is not good enough. Edited by - simmond on 2/24/2009 11:11:28 PM
I always had this image of the USA as a great big melting pot in my mind. I thought it doesn't matter which country you or your ancestors came from. I saw the USA as a role model for the European countries. Threads like this shattered my dreamy image of the states.
[Link]
john_qyoo_public Deactivated User
265 Posts 7/05
Posted - Feb 25 2009 : 3:20PM
I'm not seeing how any of this doesn't apply equally to sex ("gender"). If a man doesn't want to fuck ("work with" is a bit deceptive here) another man, based solely on an accident of birth, why isn't he seriously flawed in character, deeply troubled, etc? For that matter, how could anyone escape a similar evaluation of their character for refusing to fuck people with Down's Syndrome? One can try to take refuge in the "official sexual orientations approved by the liberal establishment" thing, but that's a bit thin. Who, other than me, is to say what sexual orientation I was born with? I'm not saying people shouldn't criticize these behaviors, I'm just saying that you'll have to prove to me that there's some inherent morality of your position, which mine lacks. So far I haven't seen such proof. There's no law of the universe that makes me wrong, and you right. And I see no moral imperative to change my position. As for bigotry, pot, meet kettle (dictionary.com):I've made room for differing points of view. Have you? Edited by - john_qyoo_public on 2/25/2009 3:30:27 PM
