the porn industry can exist without studios, its just not something that would be worth paying for or would appeal to many people other than dudes who are obsessed with individual performers
and you realize discoverability on social media has the same problems as onlyfans right?
Edited by - Interracial Gets Me Stiff on 8/14/2020 2:06:30 PM
Totally agreed. I've said it before and will carry on saying that the likes of OF and MV are convenient and very lazy scapegoats. Only so many people acknowledge openly that tube sites have harmed the industry more than OF or MV could muster. Sure, the coronavirus pandemic has forced a lot performers to find an alternative means of getting income but I reckon that if tube sites weren't so prolific, fewer of them would turn to the OF/MV business model. It's easier and more comfortable for some people to attack OF/MV or even the porn performers themselves than denounce illegal file sharing platforms.
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Aug 14 2020 : 6:03PM
^ Agree with both of you, the complaining right now is ironic as it is just performers trying to make a living in an industry that was near-destroyed by Tubesites and 'fans' who consider paying for their porn beneath them.
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Interracial Gets Me Stiff Deactivated User
97 Posts 1/20
Posted - Aug 14 2020 : 7:01PM
because there is nothing that can be done about tube sites, you can report them and hope they get taken down but its outside of your control
whether or not you create an onlyfans/manyvids is entirely under your control
^^ Sorry but you've lost me. Why should a porn performer not consider turning to OF/MV if their earning potential from "traditional" porn studios is hindered by the loss of revenue to tube sites?
How dare a porn performer use a platform like OF/MV and earn money? How dare a porn performer create a repeatable stream of income?
I also agree with all of you and while I have some major issues with OF as a business model. I don't gainsay models going that route because it's their choice and now that Covid-19 is with us for the foreseeable then it's even more imperative that all models find different sources of income other than their regular porn ones because I doubt porn studios are shooting a lot of porn right now and performers still need to pay their bills.
As for the complaining well the best I can offer is that it's human nature to complain and since people can't complain to the virus(it's not sentient) then people are picking the easiest targets to attack. It's stupid but nobody ever said that the ability to use a computer grants you the wisdom to use it properly.
P.S: I'm tempted to say that it's ironic that the likely biggest complainers are probably people who never pay for porn in the first place but I have no proof that this is true even though I think it is.
I know with music, some artists with loyal fanbases have just accepted that their work will be pirated, and so have just made it available for free, and asked fans to voluntarily pay what they feel comfortable paying.
(When I was a kid, I did actually used to feel guilty getting artists' work for free; and I used to wish there was a way I could send what I could directly to the artist. Well, now I can.)
I bit my tongue on that because I can't prove it but I too suspect that some of those complaining don't pay for their porn and now resent that OF/MV has closed the door somewhat.
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Interracial Gets Me Stiff Deactivated User
97 Posts 1/20
Posted - Aug 15 2020 : 3:24PM
the performers can do whatever they want, i just dont support the onlyfans business model
I try onlyfans for three months. I usual go to the strip clubs in NY, PA and CT until the pandemic happened. I got to chat with my favorite girls. Paying for custom clips like over 200 is ridiculous and it was a virtual strip club for me. I'm fine with the performers using it as income, but I think it defeat the purpose making porn films. I think their idea is porn films don't matter to them, because they don't sell. Porn DVDs still matter and people pay for it.
Pretty big difference between OF and MV so it's not accurate to put them both on the same boat. On top of that I hardly see complaints about MV, clips4sale or personal performer's websites. Because the latter is transparent and people can make a clear choice if they want to purchase. The former is run dishonestly and lures people in.
Which is also why they are not nearly as popular as OnlyFans. So I could say that OF wouldn't be getting hate if they ran things in a normal way but it would not be making a dent in porn like it is if it tried the known method of older personal porn page sites. Those were never killing the industry.
^I don't think OF was making a significant dent in the porn industry pre-Covid because studios were still shooting just as much porn as before OF was a thing. Tube and Torrent sites were and still are by far the biggest cause of the porn industries woes. What OF managed to do is shorten the already short career of newbies and hasten the departure of more established performers but the porn industry tends to be an industry that always carves new blood so other than our favorite newbie disappearing before she did what we hoped she would do. We were getting just as many new women coming into the industry as we were pre-OF.
I saw Mia Malkova on her thread defending her plans to only shoot for her OnlyFans, saying that it has made the industry a "better and more fruitful place" and allows performers not to have to rely on agencies. While I completely understand the benefits it offers to performers in controlling their own content and finances and it has allowed more people into the industry that might not have otherwise joined, I don't believe that it has been beneficial to consumers and I don't think it will be more fruitful for either performers or consumers in the long run.
A lower quality product, worse production value, less variety in content & a lack of transparency all make it less appealing overall. And there's no real incentive for performers to improve any of that. Mia Malkova playing with herself on a bed for five minutes shot from a weird angle with bad lighting (just a random made-up example) is better than no Mia Malkova for some people, and as long as they're handing over their money where's the incentive to create a luxurious Vixen-style 45 minute scene or some situation-based Brazzers reality porn?
And there's only so much money to go around. Eventually you're gonna reach a saturation point, if we haven't already, where performers have to start lowering prices. There are only so many 'simps', so to speak, out there who will blow hundreds and hundreds of dollars on the OnlyFans of all their favourite stars. Most people just want to pay a couple of hundred bucks a year, at most, for sites that offer a variety of content/performers.
And eventually practical concerns will take their toll, such as the availability of male performers, and ultimately make producing OnlyFans a riskier and more exploitative affair. Ricky Johnson can't appear in every single performer's Only Fans and his own. Performers are going to have to find more of their own scene partners, potentially without the benefit of an industry clearing house or proven track records. You already have male performers/producers creating content that is bordering on the abusive. And with agencies cut out of the mix you're looking at the inglorious return of the suitcase pimp.
Plus, it's only a matter of time before the government gets involved to knock the wind out of these sites' sails. Look at the way California just killed Uber in their state with their meddling. There's already a bubbling moral panic over the impact of OnlyFans on young men and women, especially with mainstream morons like Cardi B and various Youtubers shining the media focus onto the site / industry.
And I'm not sure whether we've seen it yet, but eventually people, either customers or performers, are going to sue OnlyFans for ripping them off or failing a duty of care. Think about the gambling companies that have been sued and legislated against for not protecting gambling addicts from bankrupting themselves. Those lawsuits are coming OnlyFans' way eventually and that will impact the amount of revenue available to go around.
I'm happy for those performers currently making their cheddar, but I find it hard not to envisage the bottom falling out of this venture eventually; by which point the studio/agency industry that these performers have to return to might be even less hospitable than when they left, if OnlyFans and other streaming sites continue to drive down prices and limit resources.
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Aug 18 2020 : 1:58PM
I really doubt anything legal happen, especially coming from customers. Very few porn consumers will do anything publicaly that identifies them as such. One need only look at how government failed to remotely enforce copyright laws on Tube sites to see how little the government gives a shit about the porn industry.
^ People will launch lawsuits in all manner of unedifying circumstances. Some guy who bankrupted himself tipping pornstars that couldn't give a damn about him isn't likely to have much dignity left, especially with lawyers in his ear telling him he's the victim and can get all the money back, or if he resents the women that took his money. People sue strip joints. People sue over toilet mishaps. Eventually that lawsuit will come.
Of course the government don't give a damn about protecting porn companies' copyright. It's not exactly a vote winner. But they do give a damn when voters start complaining that their darling sons and daughters have been lured into pimping their bodies out for money or wasting their college tuition on subscriptions to pornstars' porn feeds.
And they start to take notice when porn reaches the mainstream culture via celebrities and social media stars. Do you think most parents are aware that chart-topping music artists and other celebrities have profiles on a site that hosts 99% porn? You think parents are aware that their daughters are watching Youtubers like Logan Paul and David Dobrik hanging out with women that get bukkake'd for a living? You think they're aware that their sons are glued to Twitch watching a woman play video games who also offers a $6 subscription to watch her get buttfucked and facialed?
When that penny drops, they'll look to the government to get a hold on the situation, which could mean regulating the adult subscription, streaming and tube sites.
These companies and the performers are starting to sail too close to the wind. The moral panic is coming, I believe. Just think of how the FCC has meddled with Youtube in recent years, forcing them to block commenting, remove adverts, ban channels etc. due to media-led moral panic.
I'm not saying it's gonna get shut down tomorrow, but long-term I can't see these sites getting away with free rein forever.
Edited by - SM009 on 8/18/2020 3:17:44 PM
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dontbullshitme Deactivated User
42 Posts 8/20
Posted - Aug 18 2020 : 3:45PM
I've seen a few OF pages and have yet to be impressed. None of it appears to be worth the money and little of it appears to be run by the talent. I think the only one making money off this platform are retired talent where you can't get their content anywhere else. Or by that ever elusive fanboy who would pay any amount of money to feel like he is close to his favorite star, which in my opinion is the equivalence to buying a stripper an overpriced drink.
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Aug 19 2020 : 3:32AM
^^ By that logic how do you explain the decade+ abuse of piracy via the Tubesite with no legal repercussions?
The GOP and the Feds will eventually go after porn producers same as they have for decades upon decades but I don't think OnlyFans is going to be their concern, as you say more likely their target will be the Tubesites.
Bit of a contradiction there Pat. First off even if that's true, shooting as much content as before doesn't mean it wasn't having an effect on the industry. Ultimately the industry relies on the performers. Bigger names mean more people buy the product. With more big names leaving mainstream porn to make an OF page(which even you admit was already happening a lot) it will hurt the income of the studio's. Same with the influx of newcomers, a new girl doesn't make as much sales as a big star. Think of any big star right now, I have little faith that ANY of them don't have their eyes set on a permanent OF 'career' at any point in time. Of course it's making a big dent in the industry.
^^ Like I said, politicians aren't going to care about protecting pornographers' intellectual property.
Tube sites have also mostly flown under the radar from a censorship/regulation point of view because the average politician and puritan out there thinks that porn is locked safely behind paywalls or lurking somewhere on that "dark web" they've heard about. If you showed them what kids could see just with a few clicks, they would be shocked.
But most of them are too lazy to care and, for politicians, it's too much of a minefield unless there is a particular moral panic over something specific, which is what happened with Youtube and application of the COPPA legislation, for example.
The problem for OnlyFans is the mainstreaming of its image via celebrities and social media and its ongoing promotion as an easy / empowering way for young women to make money. If the penny ever drops that there's what effectively amounts to an online porn agency being promoted to impressionable teenage / college age kids by celebrities and social media, then there's gonna be some meddling.
I can see why top / in-demand performers like OnlyFans, they have enough of a hardcore fanboy fanbase to make good money.
This won't be the case for majority of performers. It just doesn't make sense for the average person to pay the same amount of money for 1 crappy scene versus 4 professional scenes.
Yes, people will pay for their favorites, but at a certain point, it won't be financially viable. And, not to make any girl sound expendable, but top stars are coming and going all the time. For every Tori Black that leaves, a Leah Gotti enters; for every Alexis Texas that leaves, a Mia Malkova enters, etc.
If OnlyFans survives for the foreseeable future, that main thing that'll change is the mainstream career-span of the top girls, as they will pretty quickly be able to make a living on their own instead of having to do professional studio scenes.
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Aug 21 2020 : 12:47AM
Tubesites have been widely pushed against by anti-porn activists and are a big part of the 'porn addiction' and 'porn as a public health threat' nonsense that has been successful at the state level in the states. Right now I think things are just so chaotic that the right wing haven't been able to organize or gain the attention they need to push it at the federal level, maybe if the GOP wins a second term, we'll see.
With the controls on OF I'm not sure it will spark the same interest, it doesn't feed the panics around underage viewers/performers or 'trafficking' that is the main push for the anti-porners right now.
I was talking about OF and MV as examples of sites that are unconventional platforms to "traditional" porn studio websites. I don't see where I stated they were the same. Your misapprehension is not what I implied or declared.
Honestly, I can't remember the last time the so-called "right wing" was launching some huge anti-porn platform. Last I remember was Tipper Gore and her side.
That's a very naive and all-encompassing statement. Things can be grouped together without being considered the same. Surely you can grasp that concept?
^Anybody who can grasp anything knew exactly what you were trying to do. You simply got called out on it and you feel embarrassed now. Maybe it'll work next time. Probably not.
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Interracial Gets Me Stiff Deactivated User
97 Posts 1/20
Posted - Aug 21 2020 : 6:10PM
Onlyfans and Manyvids are much more alike than you seem to think
sure you can watch a 15 second preview on manyvids, but at the end of the day they are both platforms where performers can exploit their dumb fans with overpriced content
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Aug 21 2020 : 6:57PM
Tipper Gore and the PMRC were a 'bi-partisan' attempt to control and censor sexually explicit lyrics in pop music, it had nothing to do with porn.
Links to ADT threads and the numerous books outlining the American right's various efforts to censor and jail pornographers are in this thread.
Your memory is mighty faulty as the links to threads on this very forum only 10 years ago show that under the last Republican President, Bush Jr., the Feds brought hundreds of obscenity cases against adult pornography, including Extreme Associates, Evil Angel, JM Productions, Seymour Butts and Max Hardcore.
Extreme Associates pled out to avoid jail but went bankrupt, JM Productions abandoned their distributor Red Star who pled and went bankrupt, Max Hardcore was convicted and sentenced to several years jail time and only Evil Angel 'won' their case, largely on a technicality and only after Stagliano bravely stood up to the Feds and spent a lot of money to do so.
I was trying to do no such thing. I explained the situation at face value when you called it out - you just seem rather slow to accept that. Claiming OF and MV are the same is your misapprehension. I openly stated in the past that OF lacks transparency and I said no such thing about MV.
It takes more being called out on your false interpretation to embarrass me and if your narrative of my pride being wounded helps you sleep at night, it's no skin off my nose.
This is why I have not bought O.F. yet (I'm female & like Chad Johnson) he (and some others) won't tell you what you are getting.
On insta where they all try to tease you and say swipe up...I do but i want to know what acts are being done in order for me to pay.
Also, Chad Johnson is the guy who played the jerk persona on The Bachelor & a few other related reality shows. If he shows you the girl he is with (sometimes doesn't & still wants you to pay) she is not high quality like him. To me he is hot & famous enough to colab with an Alexis Texas type (she seems to only do OF too) but he is with girls I don't even think he would look at off camera.
Maybe porn is different now & I still like women that go to salons & now it's plain Jane.
Also, how is it every person that shows you what they made that month made about 50k and are always #1 on o.f.? This is them showing you their computer screen?
Something doesn't smell right. Every person. Trisha Paytas, Aaron Carter, Jenna Shea & "her" girls? I don't recall the real star, Alexis Texas stooping to show what she made or that she is #1.
Jenna Shea went out with former child star Aaron Carter & wore the same pants for days & hair weave really messed up. Her home in TEXAS, no longer LA is beautiful but hey it's Texas, over built.
Also, does anybody know where there are reviews not just likes of their only fans bc maybe there would give an indication of acts?
I don't do porn, still watch and I won't buy o.f. until they market right & tell me what each scene is. I'm sure some do, just not the ones I wanted to buy. Also, noticed some OG's like Rocco Sifreddi (I believe, unless spam) are offering you live talk. I think that is brilliant.
Edited by - Cock Choke Me on 8/21/2020 11:28:29 PM
Aaron Carter was the most famous kid between 7 to 15. Probably parlayed it to 18ish. Many platinum records. Became addicted to drugs & is now probably the first "celeb" on it. I know a few from reality shows & YouTube fame but Aaron Carter did break a door. Some may know him as Nick Carter's little brother from the Back Street Boys. I know with him it's almost all men buying. Chad Johnson is really lucky to have tapped into the rare female market from The Bachelor shows.
I see Jenna Shea and Alexis Texas on insta for free. Alexis jiggles butt w a guy playing violin. I watch that once a month. It is art to me. Jenna less my type but Alexis is so beautiful to me and bc I am a relatively straight girl I am fine w her teasing me on insta & not buying & like I said in this thread if she did a scene with Chad Johnson I would buy. * Did she quit guys on o.f.? I see her always at her home w a gf. I think we are all very discerning and they get billionaires from Saudi Arabia that makes up most of their $. You can tell by the insta comments.
Manyvids(As well as Clips4sale and others) have a preview clip, with a description about what the scene(which has good quality btw) entails and a good number of accurate tags to further indicate what you're buying. You pretty much get what you pay for, and I've had no issues paying for any videos from those platforms.
Onlyfans has no previews, no description, no tags, no payment reliability. They lure in folks with boners who then get faceplanted into more paywalls and rarely seem to get what they wanted without giving out an unexpected fortune(often for bad quality cellphone vids).
I think that's a more accurate comparison than what you and that OF Propagandist AngryPirate came up with. The disingenuous comparisons are unfair and hurt the honest porn platforms like MV, C4S(though I agree they can't 'replace' studio porn).
Propagandist? That's cute. As you seem to be so fond of observing, I have been open and explicit previously in pointing out OF's lack of transparency and greater visibility in MV. In fact, I'll take the burden of demonstrating this to be the case - note that there are no time stamps edits in the past few days to confirm I hadn't fabricated this claim.
For you to denounce somebody or their actions as disingenuous when you demonstrate that very trait shows you to be a hypocrite.
^I find it amusing how much you're squirming right now after claiming you didn't care and it was 'no skin off your nose'. While you're busy spending all that time caring I'm gonna let you know that it doesn't matter to me what you may have posted before. Your particular comment about OF/MV was still foolish. Even if somebody is on my side, I would tell him/her the same thing. You simply got put in your place, it happens. Wether it was part of a propaganda or it was a legit mistake, you deserved it. Now take your lumps and move on, maybe see a shrink while you're at it, a better use of your time than scanning the entire board of your old posts that nobody will read.
^ While I don't expect people to read the posts, they are there to demonstrate that your allegations that I am a propagandist of OF are patently untrue. I had explained the context under which I put OF and MV together while I said it was no skin off my nose if you don't believe my claim. What I will defend myself against however is being denounced as disingenuous, particularly when you show yourself to behave in the manner you criticize others for.
I'm still kindly waiting for somebody to tell me why every person shows you their o.f. on their computer and coincidentally they are all #1? Is only fans hustling the content creators ego or content creator trying to get us to buy ? Impossible for everyone to be #1. Don't they know this ?
urbandictionary.com will tell you. I hear it a lot and don't think of it as that different from a fan. It could be more blinded or more loyal ? I don't know but assume the site I gave will have more info. On mainstream shows if we are a fan of a character they call us the fandom. On Shameless the fandom brought back the character of Mickey. He was a side character but all the girls & gay guys fell in love with him. He was becoming a huge star elsewhere and people in the fandom actually wrote John Wells, the creator/producer of showtime show. I have never seen a fandom bring a character back. I won't repeat what I heard some wrote to the producer.
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Interracial Gets Me Stiff Deactivated User
97 Posts 1/20
Posted - Aug 22 2020 : 6:30PM
where are you seeing this? on twitter i see a bunch of people saying they are in the top 1 percent on onlyfans which when you think about isnt too impressive considering all the people making accounts that dont even post anything
Live Instagram. Their stories last for max 24 hours & they can take down before. They turn laptop around to face cell shooting the live. So suspicious.
Ebony Hotties 4 - review by Captain Jack
Posted - Aug 14 2020 : 2:05PM
Performers are going to have to find more of their own scene partners, potentially without the benefit of an industry clearing house or proven track records. You already have male performers/producers creating content that is bordering on the abusive. And with agencies cut out of the mix you're looking at the inglorious return of the suitcase pimp.
