I don't want to steal porn (page 16)

Author	Post
juha Senior Member 2752 Posts 3/05	Posted - Apr 5 2010 : 4:06PM Len801, what does this all have to do with our topic? Nothing. It doesn't matter what happened or didn't happen in the past. It doesn't matter what somebody else does or doesn't. It is your very own decision if you pay for what you watch or if you download it for "free" because you can get away with it and don't care about the people who created the product. Edited by - juha on 4/5/2010 4:10:02 PM [Link]
Len801 Deactivated User 754 Posts 9/07	Posted - Apr 5 2010 : 4:20PM duefuss wrote: If you RAN Vivid, I doubt you would be able to say at what point, if any, the company would forsake DVD's for selling novelties, etc. Never mind that ANY company would be foolish and stupid to discontinue any product that was making money, even if it WASN'T making the money iit once did. Also, if you RAN Vivid, you'd be saying how uncompensated downloading was hurting you, instead of the reverse. Which is ultimately the gist of all this endless debate and spurious justification for helping yourself to what is not yours. You are getting something for nothing and that presents a dilemna. You can admit the truth that you are stealing but that makes you uncomfortable with yourselves. You can rationalize that it isn't stealing but something else. I call this the "Judge Judy Defense," because every defendant on that program who's ever sued for a debt he owes comes on and claims it wasn't a debt at all, it was a gift or an exchange for services rendered or manna from Heaven (THEY never get away with it either). The other thing you can do to molify your stealing is to justify it, i.e.say something like the victim of your theft deserves it or isn't harmed by it. This one you hear a lot from shoplifters (I know, I heard it when I was briefly in retail sales a million years ago). WalMart makes Billions of dollars a minute. Who cares if I steal one little CD? or Wal Mart's stuff is all this cheap Chinese shit; they rip us off, why shouldn't I return the favor All of these ratioalizations and justifications have been repeated many times. none of them change the original poster's accurate admission that what he, and all the rest of us do when we download or copy without fair remuneration is stealing porn. I'm only disappointed that I haven't heard anything REALLY original. I've had a couple of pretty good ideas myself. Maybe I'll log on as someone else and try a few here, just to liven it up. Click to expand I don't know if the "you" being used is directed at me personally or at other posters as well. There has been no rationalization in the post you have quoted. I do not RUN Vivid, and I am not in that business (nor the sex toy business), so I do not know the workings of the entreprise, or what would prompt me to make any business decision. Unless you are also working for them, you cannot speak for them either in that respect. Want to hear something original? First there was a donkey/horse/cow/camel/elephant that toook you from point A to point B. Somebody invented the wheel. Someone put a motor on a vehicle. Someone invented the train. The horse and buggy went out of style. The people who raised horses and people who built buggies folded and either went home or went into some other kind of business. In Silent era, orchestras used to play musical scores in large theaters. When sound came in 70-80 years ago thousands of musicians lost their jobs. When someone invented the audio tape/cassette the plants that made vinyl discs had to shuit down and do something else. Today it is DVD and in 15-20 years who can say what we will be using. A few years ago people took pictures using film stock or Polaroid instant pictures. Polaroid has folded, hardly anyone is usikng film stock. Everyonehas gone digfital as well. What happened to all those labs and machines that churned out film stock, pictures? Even though it did not involve illegal activity those business platforms folded because of progress. [Link]
MikeSouth Deactivated User 511 Posts 11/02	Posted - Apr 5 2010 : 4:25PM Good news on this front Removeyourcontent begins removing illegal tube google serps for clients, by the thousands, this month. We will begin targeting illegal tube placement in google and have them removed for infringement in mass. If you're a legit tube owner, you have nothing to worry about. If you are concerned, please contact your content provider. what this means is that ryc which does a really good job is now targeting the search engine result pages for sites trafficking in illegal content. Getting them delisted from google is a great way to deal another blow to the scumbags thumbs up to RYC who are at least doing something.... [Link]
Len801 Deactivated User 754 Posts 9/07	Posted - Apr 5 2010 : 4:27PM juha wrote: Len801, what does this all have to do with our topic? Nothing. It doesn't matter what happened or didn't happen in the past. It doesn't matter what somebody else does or doesn't. It is your very own decision if you pay for what you watch or if you download it for "free" because you can get away with it and don't care about the people who created the product. Edited by - juha on 4/5/2010 4:10:02 PM Click to expand I know,I know. Nothing has anything to do with anything in your eyes. It's a broken record. The producer wants to be compensated for something that was made 10-20-30-40 years ago, but is unwilling to also share that with the people who also "created" the product, right? Residuals is only a one way street. [Link]

juha Senior Member 2752 Posts 3/05	Posted - Apr 5 2010 : 4:45PM Len801 wrote: The producer wants to be compensated for something that was made 10-20-30-40 years ago, but is unwilling to also share that with the people who also "created" the product, right? Residuals is only a one way street. Click to expand But 40 year old product isn't the topic of this thread. The biz is in a substantial crisis because the new product is pirated the moment it is released. Hence a discussion about residuals simply doesn't fit. Edited by - juha on 4/5/2010 4:46:54 PM [Link]
mharris127 Senior Member 1844 Posts 8/09	Posted - Apr 5 2010 : 4:49PM killbillvol69 wrote: @mharris: hahahahaha!!!!! I am a mod, you're correct, but I am not Lucy Pinder, nor am I female. Lucy Pinder is the lovely woman whose pic is shown in my avatar. I only put her name there because when I initially joined ADT and was using the pic, I had so many ppl asking me her name (and for good reason - she's fuckin hot!) that I decided to include her name beneath the pic. For you, and anyone else interested, she is a British glamour model, and a google image search for "Lucy Pinder" with the safesearch options turned OFF will give you enough jerkoff material to last you the week. Click to expand Sorry. My mind was out to lunch with that one, I guess. She is hot, I agree. Since the name was not in porn, I assumed that she was you. [Link]
Len801 Deactivated User 754 Posts 9/07	Posted - Apr 5 2010 : 5:16PM juha wrote: Len801 wrote: The producer wants to be compensated for something that was made 10-20-30-40 years ago, but is unwilling to also share that with the people who also "created" the product, right? Residuals is only a one way street. Click to expand But 40 year old product isn't the topic of this thread. The biz is in a substantial crisis because the new product is pirated the moment it is released. Hence a discussion about residuals simply doesn't fit. Click to expand Listen Juha it is difficult to understand the argument when one does not possess the figures or has done an analysis of the situation. (I'll get back to the first part of your comment at the end) For instance, the premise is supposed to be according to you the (porn) biz (and I am assuming you mean only adult and not mainstream) is in substantial crisis because the new product is pirated the moment it is released Is there a crisis and is it all or substantially related to pirating? (1) How many porn companies have folded say in last year-2-3 years? If you know who they are, have they released information as to the cause or causes of such closure? What kind of product were they producing? (2) How many adult movies/titles/copies (DVD's) were being produced/released in 2006-2006-2007-2008 at least by the major porn companies? (3) What were the profits/revenues of these companies as compared to what was being made say in 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, etc? (4) Could it be that porn material is a matured business and most people have seen just about everything there is to be seen? Or do you think it is as fresh as it was in 1972, 1979, 1984, 1992? Does the porn industry really believe the business and sales of DVD will incrementally increase year over year considering it is a matured business? (5) How do you qualify "pirating" (since you are the one who used the word)? Meaning someone just sitting in front of a computer and downloading a movie via P2P for personal use? Or do you mean that "pirating" is the mass illegal maufacture for profit? Does the industry know or have figures for either activity? (6) if titles are being uploaded/downloaded the "moment" it is released, how are these people getting access to this material? What does it mean by "moment": same day, following day, a week before? (7) Has the cost of producing an adult title in 2009-2010 substantially higher than it was say 5-109 years ago? Does talent cost really that much more today than say 2-3-4 years ago? Has the cost of duplicating/manufacturing/distributing the product that more costly than it was in previous years? (8) Is there too much glut of the product vs the real demand? (9) Does not downturn in the economy say for last 1-2 years not affected the porn business and customer's economic ability or interest in the product? Does the product being made represent what the general client really wants to see? Now as to the comment of 40 years, I said 10-20-30-40 years, but of course you wish to concentrrate on the figure "40" becase you wish to push it into prehistoric times. In the mainstream movie world residuals did not exist, and even in the video age contracts were being written to avoid paying residuals to those men and women who put the film together (scriptwriters, musicians, performers, etc). The studio want to keep everything for themselves and share profits with no one. When they have disagreements with talent over residuals they battle it out in court and keep the movie in a vault gathering dusts. The porn industry has no such residuals clause. They pay talent and film crew one time "performance" fee and that's it, regardless of what money you make from it at time of release or subsequent sales. But if porn talent were more say more "militant" and made greater demands on the production company, perhaps they would care more about the product as it direclty affects their future earnings, be it large or minimal. The music, TV, movie industry has residuals, but not porn. Edited by - Len801 on 4/5/2010 5:32:02 PM [Link]
Fernandez Deactivated User 781 Posts 12/08	Posted - Apr 5 2010 : 6:02PM Len801 wrote: hollywood woody wrote: arkdvd wrote: howard, i commend you on your patience. you must know by now that most of the people who contend that piracy is not the problem are (a) not in our business and (b) have no idea what they are talking about. i doubt they have ever considered why lingerie and adult novelty sales have not suffered in the same way that adult content has. could it be because lingerie and adult novelties can't be digitally replicated and distributed? Click to expand You can't download a dildo. thanks. Click to expand If dildo and adult novelty ites sales/revenue far outstripped adult videos, Vivid and other companies would have closed shop and gone into that business long ago. Certain things cannot be reproduced/replicated cheaply and quickly (or even well), while other things can be. That is the reality of technical advancement. You cannot stop progress. If you were a bit savvy I suppose you could build your own bicyle in your backyard (perhaps with little regard that certain workings of the machine may have some patened application) but it may not look or ride the same as a manufactured one. Movies that used to be exhibited theatrically until the early 1980's, had a certain lifespan (the better ones used to be reissued from time to time, and later they were sold to TV), but until the video revolution of the arly 1980's that was basically it. The studios controlled the product worldwide. While they now reap a lot more money on DVD sales than they do theatrical exhibition (which is still going strong worldwide, for a medium that started about a 100 years ago!) they weep endlessly about "pirating" and "downloading". Like I mentioned before, when video cassettes and DVD sales were in full swing, the studios basically kept the WHOLE money on old(er) and even new releases. You did not hear them weep when they were raking in the money, and they were not weeping if an old and little employed actor/actress had trouble paying his bills when they were making money off an older movie of his/hers. Walmart does not stop selling merchandise (at low prices) just because people may be shoplifting (or because of internal theft). In the old days your parents may have told you that they never locked the doors of their house. Now you need to have the latest alarm system, and thugs/thieves get around that (and with home invasions). But let us be frank about certain things. A number of prints of "lost" or banged up movies have been found in the possession of collectors (who definitely were not making money off of them). Many private collectors have rescued old classics from oblivion by the carelessness of the producing/distributing companies. A lot of music has been similarly preserved. Edited by - Len801 on 4/5/2010 1:58:14 PM Edited by - Len801 on 4/5/2010 2:24:33 PM Click to expand Except that dildo sales and novelties already do outstrip dvd sales in many parts of this country and particularly in Europe, where sex aids is the fastest growing business on the continent. Of course they are replicated world wide but the mark up is so steep that huge profit margins are realized anyway. The next slippery slope was the high priced websites. First off, 29.95 for a month? A dollar a day for six or seven scenes of new footage? And having to give my credit card in perpetuity? And hearing nightmares about cancelling out of sites, being charged after not wanting to be a member any longer? Sounds terrible to me. The choice of downloading a scene and incurring the worst case scenario, a virus that might wipe out my hard drive and cost 200 bucks to fix still sounds better than having my credit card in someone else's hands, to me. Now we get to the movies themselves. And let's face it, we can hardly call them movies anymore. There's no narrative, no story, barely a theme. Even picking up a MILF movie often means the actresses are simply in their twenties, thirties and forties. The concept of a MILF is more complicated than simply their child bearing age. It has to do with their station in life and maybe their longing for some excitement and thrills in a way a 20 year old girl isn't. So I might look at a movie and find there is maybe one scene, ONE SCENE, where the initial concept is actually approached that makes it worth a look. And I have to buy or rent an entire movie where little or no effort was made to see it. Or there's some uploader who broke the movie down piece by piece, each scene is available as a separate download and I can ignore the girls who I don't find attractive and the ones who don't do good work and the ones working with a guy who fucks up the scene by putting the focus on himself. Oh my, that certainly is seductive. So that may have been excuse number three. But to be honest, it's not that appealing after a while. It's like your working at a supermarket, and after hours you and your buddies take a shopping cart and steal every variety of potato chips. Naturally your first instinct is going to be, take a bunch of your favorites and throw some new ones in there as well, try out flavors you didn't even think you'd like- because they're free! Somebody's paying for it, but they're free for you. However, now you've got five hundred bags of potato chips. You didn't want them, but it didn't cost you anything. After a while you're eating two, three chips out of the bag and throwing them away because it's pointless to eat the crap you didn't want in the first place. I don't want bad porn for free. But the current economic model just doesn't work. It makes it very easy to rationalize stealing. Why aren't there other pay modes besides credit card to allay my fears? I can buy virtually everything else in the world with paypal. Why not porn too? I rarely deal with an online merchant of any sort who doesn't allow me to put a barrier between my credit info and them. And why must I pay for a month? Why can't I download according to what content I want? I can buy a song that cost ten grand to produce for 99 cents on iTunes, yet if I only want two or three scenes from a porn site I have to pay 30 bucks? If the option is I pay a few bucks for a few scenes or your content remains unseen, wouldn't you rather make five, ten bucks as opposed to nothing? And doesn't it make sense to actually make movies that somehow hit the theme target in a really powerful fashion? I hate brazzers and their relative lack of IR output, but I must admit they usually put five minutes worth of set up and follow through in their ideas. I'm honestly not trying to justify theft, but it seems like porn has gotten stuck in this mindset where they shouldn't have to meet the consumer's needs in any new fashion. No changing the way we pay for it, no effort in production and no new ideas in how to price it. [Link]
ChodeMasterJ Perpetual Marxist 5405 Posts 4/03	Posted - Apr 5 2010 : 7:39PM ADT44 wrote: I wonder if you'll still be using that pro-american avatar of yours once you've finished reading some of his works ;) Cheers. Click to expand Thanks for the heads up on the book. Hahaha...I used an upside down American flag because, while American, I disagree with a lot of shit that America does and a lot of its policies, both militarily and economically. It was my understanding that having a flag upside down was disrespectful to the nation whose flag was being flown upside down, so I used that avatar. I was going to use a picture of a burning American flag but wasn't sure if the mods and owners would allow that. I might try it though. I've been reading a lot of Karl Marx, Friedrich Engels, and Howard Zinn lately and am growing disenfranchised with the current state of things, namely the way our government and other governments are run and how economics and capitalism is intertwined in it. I'm just getting interested in how stuff is the way it is, why it is the way it is, and what can be done to make the future better for everyone, not just the super rich. Reading their writing really makes you think about this stuff. That's why I was asking about the Chomsky book. I'm an American but definitely do not agree with a lot of America's policies. Thanks for the info on the book. [Link]
ChodeMasterJ Perpetual Marxist 5405 Posts 4/03	Posted - Apr 5 2010 : 7:42PM BlackSix wrote: Sorry buddy, that sucks. Click to expand Yeah it was pretty shitty. No time-and-a-half or Holiday pay for working Easter, either. Scoooooore!! [Link]
BlackSix All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07	Posted - Apr 6 2010 : 12:08AM Fernandez wrote: Except that dildo sales and novelties already do outstrip dvd sales in many parts of this country and particularly in Europe, where sex aids is the fastest growing business on the continent. Click to expand I was going to say this too, Adam & Eve are the most successful company in porn because of their huge sex aid sales via mail. [Link]
Len801 Deactivated User 754 Posts 9/07	Posted - Apr 6 2010 : 2:21AM BlackSix wrote: Fernandez wrote: Except that dildo sales and novelties already do outstrip dvd sales in many parts of this country and particularly in Europe, where sex aids is the fastest growing business on the continent. Click to expand I was going to say this too, Adam & Eve are the most successful company in porn because of their huge sex aid sales via mail. Click to expand So does that mean that when you see sex toys being used in an Adam & Eve production (or other company that is involved in both businesses enterprises) it should be considered "product placement", and plugging their own product? And that the use of the sex toys may have little or nothing to do with plot dramatic "motivation" of the scene in question? Ummmmm... Edited by - Len801 on 4/6/2010 3:14:06 AM [Link]
derek25 New Member 2 Posts 4/10	Posted - Apr 6 2010 : 8:28AM I want to buy a DRM free copy of Gangbang Auditions 24, surely something which should be straight forward. Can I find a way of doing this - no. Monthly subs on the Diabolic site only. Evil Angel is the only studio which provides simple one off purchases, which works well, but as the DIVX player needs to check your login these only work whilst you are online. I do not want to sign up for a monthly service to watch a production, nor do I buy any physical media anymore. All my music and movies comes online. Once I've bought the content I expect to be able to play it on the devices of my choosing. I do not expect a license check every time I want to watch content. I want to buy content, simply on credit card, as a one off I want it download rather than DVD I want it DRM free (but I will play for protected content, but it p*sses me off) I suspect I'm not alone. Feel the file sharing client being sparked up..... Derick [Link]
duefuss Member Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious - Brendan Gill 723 Posts 4/09	Posted - Apr 6 2010 : 9:06AM Len801 wrote: I don't know if the "you" being used is directed at me personally or at other posters as well. There has been no rationalization in the post you have quoted. I do not RUN Vivid, and I am not in that business (nor the sex toy business), so I do not know the workings of the entreprise, or what would prompt me to make any business decision. Unless you are also working for them, you cannot speak for them either in that respect. Click to expand I was responding to your statement, "If dildo and adult novelty ites sales/revenue far outstripped adult videos, Vivid and other companies would have closed shop and gone into that business long ago." which contains no such disclaimer that you do not run Vivid, or that you do not know what they would do if novelty sales outran DVD sales. You simply make statements as though they are obvious truths that are neither obvious, nor are you in any position to know if they are true. My own conjecture that Vivid would not stop selling something that was making them money is nothing more than the very commonest sense. The goal of all business is to make money. If you are making money from selling DVDs, you don't stop selling them, just because they aren't making as much money as they did, even if you start selling something else. It is simply yet another instance in this thread of people taking something without paying for it while refusing to admit that they are taking something without paying for it,while pretending to know that it does no harm, that it does not matter, or that it somehow promotes the welfare of the porn business. [Link]

Len801 Deactivated User 754 Posts 9/07	Posted - Apr 6 2010 : 9:54AM duefuss wrote: Len801 wrote: I don't know if the "you" being used is directed at me personally or at other posters as well. There has been no rationalization in the post you have quoted. I do not RUN Vivid, and I am not in that business (nor the sex toy business), so I do not know the workings of the entreprise, or what would prompt me to make any business decision. Unless you are also working for them, you cannot speak for them either in that respect. Click to expand I was responding to your statement, "If dildo and adult novelty ites sales/revenue far outstripped adult videos, Vivid and other companies would have closed shop and gone into that business long ago." which contains no such disclaimer that you do not run Vivid, or that you do not know what they would do if novelty sales outran DVD sales. You simply make statements as though they are obvious truths that are neither obvious, nor are you in any position to know if they are true. My own conjecture that Vivid would not stop selling something that was making them money is nothing more than the very commonest sense. The goal of all business is to make money. If you are making money from selling DVDs, you don't stop selling them, just because they aren't making as much money as they did, even if you start selling something else. It is simply yet another instance in this thread of people taking something without paying for it while refusing to admit that they are taking something without paying for it,while pretending to know that it does no harm, that it does not matter, or that it somehow promotes the welfare of the porn business. Click to expand No, I don't work for Vivid, and I do not know the workings of the company. If I worked for them, I would have so indicated or it should/would be more than obvious to anyone reading my posts. They can sell nuts and bolts and construction material if it so pleased them. Diversification is always good to make sure if one section goes bad you have something to fall back on. But when you see sex toys used in a movie produced by one of these companies that are also in the sex toys business, what do you deduce from that? The plot of the movie required it, or someone wanted to insert that to plug that line? Does talent know they are plugging the product, or are they required to do so as part of the "pay/performance" package? In any event, you go from that quote of mine about sex toys into that totally unrelated last paragraph of yours regarding justification for taking something that is not mine. There was a need to throw in the kitchen sink for what point? Why don't you use that paragraph as part of your "signature" when posting, lest someobody not understand your point of vision? [Link]
Aplus Senior Member 1431 Posts 5/05	Posted - Apr 7 2010 : 2:03AM Len801 wrote: I did not speak of "on line" renting as I have no personal experience with that. What do you pay for a on-line rental (including shipping, taxes, etc), and do you have a monthly/yearly fee to consider as well that needs to be factored in to the actual final cost? When you speak of "on-line", do you mean actual physical DVD or video streaming? C Click to expand Sorry it took so long for me to respond. I hadn't been online that much in the last 2 days. I was talking strictly about physical dvd's. Just not into downloading porn or any other media really. The cost to rent online can very from site-to-site, and from title-to-title. I rent from many places like: Excaliburfilms, Xrent, BushDVD, and AdultDvdEmpire. Most have monthly memberships where you can rent anywhere from like 1-to maybe 8 films a months for a set price. I think the (1) limits are usually like (1) film a week for a month for like $9-$10 bucks. I've often used the ones that offer unlimited monthly rentals of 3-4 films an order for like $25 a month. All listed offer single individual rentals from anywhere from .99c to $6.99 a dvd for a week or two weeks. Newer releases usually cost more and usually rent for about $4-$6. Some rent with a shipping fee per dvd, and some have a set shipping price per order of about $3-$4. One has no shipping fee and you simply pay the price of the rental. I prefer that latter one whenever possible, but sometimes they don't have what I want or when I want it. That can apply to all of them at different times though. I get deals on online rentals all the time though, although I will admit they are tougher to find with new releases. I usually pay about $4 for any given new release though, and usually have it for about two weeks before I have to return it. [Link]
Len801 Deactivated User 754 Posts 9/07	Posted - Apr 7 2010 : 2:40AM Aplus wrote: Len801 wrote: I did not speak of "on line" renting as I have no personal experience with that. What do you pay for a on-line rental (including shipping, taxes, etc), and do you have a monthly/yearly fee to consider as well that needs to be factored in to the actual final cost? When you speak of "on-line", do you mean actual physical DVD or video streaming? C Click to expand Sorry it took so long for me to respond. I hadn't been online that much in the last 2 days. I was talking strictly about physical dvd's. Just not into downloading porn or any other media really. The cost to rent online can very from site-to-site, and from title-to-title. I rent from many places like: Excaliburfilms, Xrent, BushDVD, and AdultDvdEmpire. Most have monthly memberships where you can rent anywhere from like 1-to maybe 8 films a months for a set price. I think the (1) limits are usually like (1) film a week for a month for like $9-$10 bucks. I've often used the ones that offer unlimited monthly rentals of 3-4 films an order for like $25 a month. All listed offer single individual rentals from anywhere from .99c to $6.99 a dvd for a week or two weeks. Newer releases usually cost more and usually rent for about $4-$6. Some rent with a shipping fee per dvd, and some have a set shipping price per order of about $3-$4. One has no shipping fee and you simply pay the price of the rental. I prefer that latter one whenever possible, but sometimes they don't have what I want or when I want it. That can apply to all of them at different times though. I get deals on online rentals all the time though, although I will admit they are tougher to find with new releases. I usually pay about $4 for any given new release though, and usually have it for about two weeks before I have to return it. Click to expand OK thanks. So shipping costs (them sending to you only?) may either be built into the rental price or billed/added on separately. I assume then that when you return the DVD(s) the shipping costs are incurred by you personally? So on average what are you really spending to rent an adult DVD for a brief period? (all costs factored in: montly fee, rental, shipping both ways, etc)? Is there a problem with lost/stolen/damaged items (them to you, and you to them) while the mechandise is in transit? Edited by - Len801 on 4/7/2010 2:42:00 AM [Link]
BlackSix All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07	Posted - Apr 7 2010 : 2:58AM derek25 wrote: I want to buy a DRM free copy of Gangbang Auditions 24, surely something which should be straight forward. Can I find a way of doing this - no. Monthly subs on the Diabolic site only. Click to expand That is available for download legally from the AdultDVDEmpire website, I'm not sure if it's completely DRM-free, although a lot of the content including all the Elegant Angel stuff is, but it does come with three 'viewing licenses' for up to three different computers. Hardly a bad deal, imo, and no I don't work for that website. Edited by - BlackSix on 4/7/2010 3:04:47 AM [Link]
BrekkyDJ Member Australia 246 Posts 10/06	Posted - Apr 7 2010 : 3:00AM I recently sign up as a member with Naughty America. One thing I've found so far is that the Flash Videos take longer to load on Naughty America than any tube site. Granted, NA's flash is of better quality, but the tube sites aren't that bad (especially for nothing). So it brings a point... I'm paying for a site that takes longer to load, while the free sites do it quicker. Not exactly attractive to the customer and his dollars, hey! BrekkyDJ (That aussie guy) [Link]
BlackSix All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07	Posted - Apr 7 2010 : 3:06AM ^ When you go to the movie theatre doesn't it take longer for the movie to start than when you watch it on your computer? If you care about quality, the slightly slower start time hardly seems a concern, the reality is that most people don't care about the quality of porn, one way or the other. Edited by - BlackSix on 4/7/2010 3:07:14 AM [Link]
Boob Enthusiast Member 91 Posts 3/08	Posted - Apr 7 2010 : 3:30AM I'll start paying for porn again the day it contains all of the following: • Creative Scripts. I want scenarios to stimulate my brain as well as naked bodies to stimulate my dick. I want to see something that somebody put some thought and effort into. Like good erotica. • Chemistry. Nobody in contemporary porn ever seems to be enjoying themselves. Couldn’t they fake it? Whatever happened to acting? I don’t expect Kate Winslet-level performances, but it would be nice if the talent would at least try to look like they’re having fun. Sort of like in 70s/early 80s porn (except without the constant close-ups of man-face). • Realistic Sex. I want to feel like I'm watching real people fucking for their own pleasure. I'm OK with heightened realism, but I think modern porn has gone way too far toward cartoonish artificiality. I'm tired of the exaggerated & painful-looking contortions the performers are forced to endure. A lot of the most common sex positions in modern porn would make an Olympic gymnast wince. I'd rather see people having sex in symmetrical, comfortable positions that people use in real life. I don't care if this means I see less of the penetration. • Competent Camerawork. I want to see porn shot by somebody who loves the female body and has a good aesthetic sense. I want to see long slow sensual takes with good lighting and composition. Again, I don't expect Bergman or Tarkovsky. But I'm just sick of all the zoomy panny monkey-cam crap shot by people who don't even seem to find women attractive. I'm also sick of seeing the same angles in film after film--especially the endless close-ups of bobbing nut sacks and squinching male asses that you see in pretty much every film nowadays. • A complete industry-wide ban on male spitting. Or at least label that shit so I can avoid it. This is the specific act that chased me out of the DVD store sometime around 2005-06, and I've never been back. Until all of this happens, I will continue not to buy my porn. I can't justify paying for it when I just end up throwing 98% of it away due to male spitting and/or cameramen with a fondness for testicles and hairy crack. I don't really care if the porn industry collapses, because the overwhelming majority of porn has no value anyway. [Link]
duefuss Member Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious - Brendan Gill 723 Posts 4/09	Posted - Apr 7 2010 : 9:46AM Boob Enthusiast wrote: I'll start paying for porn again the day it contains all of the following:... Click to expand Your point about the poor 'entertainment value' of most porn is well made, but the truth, as dazzlingly obvious as this thread makes it, is that, good, bad, or indifferent, if media can be had for nothing, without risk, people are not going to pay for it. It is not that people are thieves by nature. I think the great majority of us wish to be honest and fair. Those on this thread, who have striven to justify and excuse uncompensated downloading, have done so just because they DO wish to be honest and chafe at the knowledge they try so hard to deny that they are getting away with a form of stealing when they download porn. But people are also sensible. Apart from the ethics of it, it is just plain illogical to pay for something when you can get it for nothing. What's going to win? Ethics or common sense? If this thread doesn't give the answer to that question, any basic understanding of human nature will. One can always adjust his ethics, make subtle changes to his definition of what are pretty subjective ideas anyway, like justifiable actions and ethical motivation. It's a lot tougher to adjust-- or resist -- getting something for nothing. Ironically, people like me, who come here to keep the apologist downloaders from easily excusing what they do, are probably far LESS moral and more cynical than they. I freely admit to downloading from tube sites. I also admit that what I'm doing is stealing: call it copyright infringement or whatever else you like, it's taking something for nothing that should be paid for, and I do it. Not often, but that mitigates nothing. But unlike 'my opponents' I am more comfortable with my flaws. Does that make me better or more honest than they? Hardly. At least they struggle with what they do, TRY to make it right, or, at least, try to make it feel right to themselves. I don't even bother. For the erotic media industry, I am the problem, not them because most downloaders are like me. They admit, more or less cheerfully, that they are stealing, if they think about it at all, and go right ahead and steal. I know what would stop me from being a problem. It isn't arguing that what I do is unethical. One can see that plainly and at length in this thread. What will eliminate me as the problem is to change the sensibleness of downloading. Make it harder to do. Realistically, you can't make it impossible, but making it just more difficult will turn me from a big problem into a small one. Demonstrate that there is a risk of being caught, of paying consequences for piracy and illegal downloading. Place some technical barrier to downloading. Sure, any obstacle you devise will be bypassed by some. But most of us aren't Geeks. Most of us are like me: duffers, too lazy or ignorant not to be nicely confounded by anything even moderately sophisticated that stands in our way. That is the solution to the problem. Since you cannot change the human nature that created it, you must use that same human nature to fix it, and the only way to stop any behavior is to make it more difficult to do or riskier to do. [Link]
Len801 Deactivated User 754 Posts 9/07	Posted - Apr 7 2010 : 11:01AM Duefuss your points are well taken and very well enunciated but hardly address what Boob Enthusiast and others have made in this thread. I used to be a heavy renter (mainstream and adult) of VHS/DVD until a few years back. What is out there now hardly reflects what I am really looking for. =I am generally displeasded with the 3-4hour 2-DVD disc sets. All it is it is just elongated and seemigly "unedited" footage. You are no more aroused by a 40-50 minute scene than say a 20-30 minute sex scene. If you have your finger on the fast forward button and skip through some of that maerial, then there is little justification for the long material to have been package that way in the first place. It no doubt adds to the costs of the DVD (wholesale/retail) and I really don't know what the general consumer thinks about it. =I really can't stand the somewhat "rough" stuff" and "fetish" content of movies, which were/should be relegtaed to specialized titles. I really don't care for spitting on the face/body of a partner, toe sucking, hair pulling, pulling jaws apart, making the girl gag endlessly until she is practically in tears, making her swallow tons of cum when it is obvious the majority of these performers are really not into it. Sex should be a pleasurable experience for both partners not just one-sided (male) degradation of the female. The fetish costumes and paraphernalia should be relegated to specialized tapes. I do not wish to see a girl in a regular adult tape with hands and feet bound, with a gag ball in her mouth, a mask over her face, and people slapping her silly. If there is a market for that, put it somewhere else for those that prefer that type of activity. Keep it off "regular" adult titles. =The fake moaning and loud screaming that female performers make in every sex scene of just about every DVD that it out there. You know "Oh my god, oh my god, fuck me, fuck me..." ad nauseam. Go back to the adult movies that were made back in the 1970's, 1980', 1990's and compare, and see what I mean. =Everything is filmed the same way (by mostly addled directors and cameramen) who seem to be making the movie for themselves and not for the audience that will be paying for it. Poor camerwork and poor editing do not make for a winning combination. Show the girl's face once in a while, I don't want to see the guy's hairy ass or ugly tattoos. Most scenes begin with both partners already fully naked and male erect. There is little or no build up. =The theory that more is better. Meaning that if the directors puts 3-4-6-10 people in a scene you get more bang for the buck. The sex that you enjoy in your personal life (or perhaps in your fantasy) do not usually involve 6-7 people. With two or 3 couples in a sex scene it gets confusing, and the camera keeps going from one to the other and misses out a lot on the couple that might interest you the most. Keep it simple! =If you are going to shoot a MILF/mature women movie, put women that appear to be of a certain age or are a little beyond 25. The guy they are cast with (who is supposed to be a young man at least from the plot outline) is often older than the actual actress! =The industry knows very well what male actors (there are plenty of posts her on ADT to tell you who they are) that really don't click with the general public, but it keeps casting them. They will say, hey he's a porn legend, been working for years in the industry, he is entitled to work, etc. Sure this happens all the time in the mainstream movie industry, but for the most part you know who is in the film before you walk in a movie theater or buy/rent the DVD. In porn, it is not very often you even see the names of the male cast on the box cover or even see their faces from the small thumbnails. So you buy or rent an adult movie and discover there is one or two male actors that make you hurl. Why can't they list their names on the box cover instead of all the other useless garbage? If the porn industry concentrated more on making the kind of product (not that they WANT to make) that people want to see, and make it available to them in the way they would like, and stop making garbage that few want to see, then perhaps people will come back. Less quantity and more quality would appeal to everyone. [Link]
witling Member 46 Posts 1/07	Posted - Apr 7 2010 : 11:30AM BlackSix wrote: derek25 wrote: I want to buy a DRM free copy of Gangbang Auditions 24, surely something which should be straight forward. Can I find a way of doing this - no. Monthly subs on the Diabolic site only. Click to expand That is available for download legally from the AdultDVDEmpire website, I'm not sure if it's completely DRM-free, although a lot of the content including all the Elegant Angel stuff is, but it does come with three 'viewing licenses' for up to three different computers. Hardly a bad deal, imo, and no I don't work for that website. Click to expand Although I am not interested in that particular title I took a look in there to see what kind of service they are offering. Based on my initial impressions I am not rushing to use their services: Downloading one title is kind of expensive. Especially because... I could find no concrete information about video quality or free sample clips to check it. I suspect they offer standard DVD resolution not too different from sites like Videobox. DRM is nothing but trouble. I guess with these prices I would rather opt for a subscription-based solution with unlimited downloads for a flat monthly payment. That could mean that these days I tend to view porn more like generic and interchangeable "stuff" rather than indvidual works of art, which would be a shame. THen again the open buffet model works pretty well for gonzo type porn. I think I have bought one or two physical DVDs from Adult DVD Empire in the past. But that was ages ago... I guess I am rather suspicious by nature and tend to subconsciously expect anything porn-related to be a scam of some sort. I was initially very wary of subscribing to any porn paysites but those fears at least have so far been unfounded. [Link]

Aplus Senior Member 1431 Posts 5/05	Posted - Apr 7 2010 : 11:43AM Len801 wrote: Aplus wrote: Len801 wrote: I did not speak of "on line" renting as I have no personal experience with that. What do you pay for a on-line rental (including shipping, taxes, etc), and do you have a monthly/yearly fee to consider as well that needs to be factored in to the actual final cost? When you speak of "on-line", do you mean actual physical DVD or video streaming? C Click to expand OK thanks. So shipping costs (them sending to you only?) may either be built into the rental price or billed/added on separately. I assume then that when you return the DVD(s) the shipping costs are incurred by you personally? So on average what are you really spending to rent an adult DVD for a brief period? (all costs factored in: montly fee, rental, shipping both ways, etc)? Is there a problem with lost/stolen/damaged items (them to you, and you to them) while the mechandise is in transit? Edited by - Len801 on 4/7/2010 2:42:00 AM Click to expand Again it can very. I have eccentric tastes at times, which doesn't make it easy to rent from the same place, all the time. I usually like to combine an order no matter what I do, unless it's a no-shipping fee order. Not really sure how specific I'm allowed to be on here, so that's why I wasn't. Here goes though. A recent BushDVD order cost me about $8.50 for 5 films. I paid $1.99 for one three-disk set, $$1.99 and $1.49 for the two other films. Add $3 total for shipping. I will add that Bush doesn't always offer multi-disk films like that, and you usually have to rent them separately if you rent by the month, especially the newer releases. I used to use BushDVD's monthly service, where I typically got 12 films in a month for $26. Their delivery in slow to where I live, so I don't doubt some could get 16 films in a month. I prefer them for monthly rentals though. A typical AdultDVDEmpire individual order cost me $3.99 a film, sometimes $4.99 a film if it's brand new. No shipping fee. I think orders can be combined, although I don't tend to do that with them. I prefer them for new releases. I've gotten many rentals for $1.99 with them though, although those tend to be older to slightly older films. They ship (to me) out of PA, which is much closer to where I live, so I usually get most orders in 2-3 days, typically 2 days. They may ship out of different locations though....just not sure. I think they just started renting multi-disks, which I'll admit can be a problem with a lot of the companies. Xrent is higher for individual orders. I usually pay $3.99 for a new/newer film, and $1.99 for an older films. Add $3.00 shipping and it's about $7.99 for 2 films. I basically only use them if I can't find a film I want anywhere else. I have used their monthly service before which is more valuable IMO. I used the 3 film order for like $23, I think. Been a while, so I can't remember the exact price. Xrent usually ships in about 3-4 days where I live. So I'd say I usually got between 12-15 films in any given month depending on how long I kept them. Xrent does rent multi-disks films for a single price, which makes them my favorite (usually) for multi-disk rentals. I think you have to waste two orders on a monthly basis though. Excaliburfilms has individual rentals for $2.95 a film, plus $3.00 shipping cost, per film. I basically only use them for older or hard-to-find dvd's, which they seem to have a higher supply of than most other companies. They rent new films like everybody else though. They also rent by the month, which I have used at times over the years. Been a while, but I actually prefer monthly with them. Can't remember exact prices by the month, but I know it seemed more economical. I haven't too many problems with damaged or defective disks luckily. All companies simply offered to replace it once I notified them about it. Edited by - aplus on 4/7/2010 11:50:38 AM Edited by - aplus on 4/7/2010 11:59:34 AM [Link]
duefuss Member Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious - Brendan Gill 723 Posts 4/09	Posted - Apr 7 2010 : 12:01PM Len801 wrote: Duefuss your points are well taken and very well enunciated but hardly address what Boob Enthusiast and others have made in this thread... Click to expand I couldn't agree more that about the failure of almost all porn to be what it is supposed to be: erotic. I've been hollering about that on ADT in one way or another since I got here. My own pet issue in this thread, as you know, has been one not directly related to quality, but my simple insistence that downloading pirated porn is a defacto collusion with the theft. My motive in starting this argument is principally the same as for being on ADT: first, as an excercise in organizing my own aged and muddled thinking, and second, as an admittedly mostly futile effort to aid and appreciate a part of culture that I value. The LAST thing I mean to imply is that any viewpoint, especially my own, is superior to another. But that free downloading is harmful to this business, as many in the business say, seems logical to me, and reducing the profits of this business can only negatively impact any chance we the customers ever have of getting the quality we want. [Link]
hollywood woody Senior Member Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07	Posted - Apr 7 2010 : 12:53PM Boob Enthusiast wrote: I'll start paying for porn again the day it contains all of the following: • Creative Scripts. I want scenarios to stimulate my brain as well as naked bodies to stimulate my dick. I want to see something that somebody put some thought and effort into. Like good erotica. • Chemistry. Nobody in contemporary porn ever seems to be enjoying themselves. Couldn’t they fake it? Whatever happened to acting? I don’t expect Kate Winslet-level performances, but it would be nice if the talent would at least try to look like they’re having fun. Sort of like in 70s/early 80s porn (except without the constant close-ups of man-face). • Realistic Sex. I want to feel like I'm watching real people fucking for their own pleasure. I'm OK with heightened realism, but I think modern porn has gone way too far toward cartoonish artificiality. I'm tired of the exaggerated & painful-looking contortions the performers are forced to endure. A lot of the most common sex positions in modern porn would make an Olympic gymnast wince. I'd rather see people having sex in symmetrical, comfortable positions that people use in real life. I don't care if this means I see less of the penetration. • Competent Camerawork. I want to see porn shot by somebody who loves the female body and has a good aesthetic sense. I want to see long slow sensual takes with good lighting and composition. Again, I don't expect Bergman or Tarkovsky. But I'm just sick of all the zoomy panny monkey-cam crap shot by people who don't even seem to find women attractive. I'm also sick of seeing the same angles in film after film--especially the endless close-ups of bobbing nut sacks and squinching male asses that you see in pretty much every film nowadays. • A complete industry-wide ban on male spitting. Or at least label that shit so I can avoid it. This is the specific act that chased me out of the DVD store sometime around 2005-06, and I've never been back. Until all of this happens, I will continue not to buy my porn. I can't justify paying for it when I just end up throwing 98% of it away due to male spitting and/or cameramen with a fondness for testicles and hairy crack. I don't really care if the porn industry collapses, because the overwhelming majority of porn has no value anyway. Click to expand So I take it you don't watch it. Or is this just another justification to steal it? If you watch it through illegal downloads, then everything you wrote is just bullshit. If you don't watch it at all, I respect that. But it sounds like you do watch it. You just don't want to pay for it. I also must add there are companies out there that produce high quality porn, Vivid, Wicked, Digital Playground, Evil Angel, Elegant Angel and the list goes on. So you can't justify paying for your porn, but you can justify stealing it to watch it? Just asking? [Link]
BlackSix All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07	Posted - Apr 7 2010 : 1:30PM witling wrote: DRM is nothing but trouble. Click to expand As I mentioned Elegant Angel's titles are DRM-free, not that DRM bothers me personally. I've downloaded DRM files and backed them up to disc and watched them several times. I don't know what the quality at Videobox is like but I find it to be fine. As for the rest of your post, I see what you mean, I use VOD and website subscriptions quite a bit myself, but either way there are a lot of legal options. I would also point to Elegant Angel's titles as an example that refutes most of Boob enthusiasts complaints about modern porn, they make quality gonzo and vignette porn. Not to mention websites like Ifeelmyself.com, Kissmegirl, AbbyWinters, etc. For rougher stuff there is Jake Malone at Evil Angel, Mason at Elegant, Kink.com. Wicked still do some good features but that is definitely the weakest genre right now unfortunately. There still isn't enough good pornography being made, but to claim that it is all crap is just not true. Edited by - BlackSix on 4/7/2010 1:46:05 PM [Link]
Imaginative Deactivated User 158 Posts 5/05	Posted - Apr 7 2010 : 2:02PM Are there any sites that offer DRM-free porn from the major studios at $3 to $4 a scene? People want to be able to follow the scenes of their favorite stars, without having to pay for 3 to 4 scenes of little interest every time. That is why the DVD model is broken. Because porn is obviously structured as individual scenes (for the most part), it is more akin to the music business that the film industry (i.e. no one is interested in stealing just the first 20 minutes of "Star Wars"). Porn needs an iTunes equivalent, where people can pay a reasonable price just for what they want. The industry has done nothing to provide honest consumers of porn what they want and deserve, a feasible and cost effective way of collecting virtually every sex scene of their favorite performers (or directors). I think everyone here agrees that it is VERY rare for a 5 sex-scene porn movie to provide 5 scenes of equal value to the consumer. If one of my favorite performers shares a DVD with four breast-enhanced women (something I completely avoid except for 1 or 2 rare exceptions of women who manage to be hot DESPITE what they did to their chest), is there anyway for me to LEGALLY obtain just that scene, day-and-date with the DVD (regardless of which studio it's from), for a reasonable price? As far as I know, there isn't. iTunes proves that people will pay for convenience and value. Edited by - imaginative on 4/7/2010 2:04:41 PM [Link]
witling Member 46 Posts 1/07	Posted - Apr 7 2010 : 2:08PM BlackSix wrote: I would also point to Elegant Angel's titles as an example that refutes most of Boob enthusiasts complaints about modern porn, they make quality gonzo and vignette porn. Not to mention websites like Ifeelmyself.com, Kissmegirl, AbbyWinters, etc. For rougher stuff there is Jake Malone at Evil Angel, Mason at Elegant, Kink.com. Wicked still do some good features but that is definitely the weakest genre right now unfortunately. There still isn't enough good pornography being made, but to claim that it is all crap is just not true. Edited by - BlackSix on 4/7/2010 1:46:05 PM Click to expand Yes I tend to think that when someone announces his perception of "what's wrong with porn" it usually applies only to a certain subset of porn and they are ignoring or not being aware of anything that doesn't conform to their view. As for features, I guess the point (or at least one point) I was reaching for earlier was that features are the most likely genre to be hurt by downloading, whether legal or illegal, just because it is more convenient to pick isolated scenes. You could make an analogy to album-oriented music being hurt by people downloading single tracks and thereby breaking the intended wholeness of the work. Recently Pink Floyd won a lawsuit against EMI over just this matter, although that doesn't change the way their music is available digitally. Or does this make sense? [Link]
Zaer Deactivated User 249 Posts 10/07	Posted - Apr 7 2010 : 3:43PM Fernandez wrote: It's like your working at a supermarket, and after hours you and your buddies take a shopping cart and steal every variety of potato chips. Naturally your first instinct is going to be, take a bunch of your favorites and throw some new ones in there as well, try out flavors you didn't even think you'd like- because they're free! Somebody's paying for it, but they're free for you. Click to expand A better example would be, you buy a few bags of chips, then when you leave the store, you use a matter replicator to make numerous copies of the chips and then give those to your buddies. Were those copied chips stolen? Obviously not. The situation is the same with content. As for the argument that making file sharing more difficult will work, ask the MPAA and RIAA how well that's working for them. Then ask them how much money they're making now that consumers have an easy to use pay option with iTunes. The rational solution is to give consumers easy to use pay options. Edited by - Zaer on 4/7/2010 3:46:16 PM [Link]
Boob Enthusiast Member 91 Posts 3/08	Posted - Apr 7 2010 : 3:44PM I would also point to Elegant Angel's titles as an example that refutes most of Boob enthusiasts complaints about modern porn, they make quality gonzo and vignette porn. Click to expand Elegant Angel? Seriously? They're like the ultimate purveyors of the kind of stuff I'm talking about. I long ago put them on my no-watch list, but they lured me back with Gianna Michaels in Big Wet Asses, Volume 773 or whatever. And it was a massive disappointment. Every scene followed the exact same formula and was even shot on the exact same couch. I'm guessing the entire movie was shot in a single afternoon, with a minimum of planning and rehearsing. And it was nothing but the standard contorted uncomfortable-looking sex, disgusting male spitting, and hideous crack-n-sack camera angles. Why are porn cameramen so obsessed with shooting from between the dudes' spread legs? I skimmed through the entire movie and promptly deleted it, annoyed that I couldn't enjoy watching Gianna having anal sex, but feeling grateful at least that I hadn't actually paid money to see it. If Elegant Angel is the best example you can come up with of "quality" porn, then that just makes me feel even more justified in acquiring it for free. It would be better and healthier if I stopped watching porn altogether, but for some stupid reason I can't give up hope that someday somebody with talent and vision will ignore the "way things are done" and produce something worth watching. But it's like banging my head against a wall. Apparently, people with talent just don't become pornographers. [Link]
Boob Enthusiast Member 91 Posts 3/08	Posted - Apr 7 2010 : 4:05PM So you can't justify paying for your porn, but you can justify stealing it to watch it? Just asking? Click to expand Yeah, pretty much this is the case. My justification for stealing porn is the same as my justification for stealing music. I mostly don't like the kind of music that gets played on the radio, MTV, and other mainstream outlets. The best way to find new music is to read about it on the internet and then download it to try it out. I download tons of music for free. But this has the effect of fueling my obsession with music and vastly expanding my horizons. I'm listening to stuff now that I would have never taken a chance on 10 years ago when I had to pay $17 for some CD I wasn't even sure I'd like. Because of my increased interest in music, fueled by downloading, I also end up buying a lot of music. Maybe only 10-15% of my music collection is purchased legally. But this 10-15% represents a lot more total music than I was buying a few years ago, before I started downloading. I would do the same for porn, except that good porn seemingly doesn't exist. Or it's so rare that it's like looking for a needle in Nebraska. So I never end up buying any porn, but just keep searching and searching with vague hopes, kind of like the SETI project. [Link]
hollywood woody Senior Member Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07	Posted - Apr 7 2010 : 6:18PM Zaer wrote: Fernandez wrote: It's like your working at a supermarket, and after hours you and your buddies take a shopping cart and steal every variety of potato chips. Naturally your first instinct is going to be, take a bunch of your favorites and throw some new ones in there as well, try out flavors you didn't even think you'd like- because they're free! Somebody's paying for it, but they're free for you. Click to expand A better example would be, you buy a few bags of chips, then when you leave the store, you use a matter replicator to make numerous copies of the chips and then give those to your buddies. Were those copied chips stolen? Obviously not. The situation is the same with content. As for the argument that making file sharing more difficult will work, ask the MPAA and RIAA how well that's working for them. Then ask them how much money they're making now that consumers have an easy to use pay option with iTunes. The rational solution is to give consumers easy to use pay options. Edited by - Zaer on 4/7/2010 3:46:16 PM Click to expand I have never seen a digital potato chip. Your comparison is unrealistic. You content that art and images, media, once it is made and you buy a copy, you own the right to do with it as you please. The law says otherwise. You have complete disregard for the law, and the owners of such content. That is the simple truth. Just admit that. [Link]

hollywood woody Senior Member Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07	Posted - Apr 7 2010 : 6:33PM Boob Enthusiast wrote: So you can't justify paying for your porn, but you can justify stealing it to watch it? Just asking? Click to expand Yeah, pretty much this is the case. My justification for stealing porn is the same as my justification for stealing music. Thank you for at least being an honest thief. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I mostly don't like the kind of music that gets played on the radio, MTV, and other mainstream outlets. The best way to find new music is to read about it on the internet and then download it to try it out. I download tons of music for free. But this has the effect of fueling my obsession with music and vastly expanding my horizons. I'm listening to stuff now that I would have never taken a chance on 10 years ago when I had to pay $17 for some CD I wasn't even sure I'd like. Are these free downloads or are you stealing them too? If stealing is the way you are going, it kind of negates your whole argument, because this is stuff you say you like, you just don't want to pay either way, like it or not. Sounds like you just don't like to support the artists you listen too. How would like it, at the end of a hard days work your boss just decided not to pay you? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Because of my increased interest in music, fueled by downloading, I also end up buying a lot of music. Maybe only 10-15% of my music collection is purchased legally. But this 10-15% represents a lot more total music than I was buying a few years ago, before I started downloading. So they should thank you for only stealing 85% of what you listen too. Great point. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I would do the same for porn, except that good porn seemingly doesn't exist. Or it's so rare that it's like looking for a needle in Nebraska. So I never end up buying any porn, but just keep searching and searching with vague hopes, kind of like the SETI project. Click to expand That is really not a true statement, I know , I hesitate to give you titles for fear you will just steal them, that great stuff is being made. Tres Flores got editors choice from XBIZ, whom we do not advertise with, so it is for sure unbiased. Devil and Miss Jones the Resurrection is big budget, great script with Belladonna. All of B Skows movies over the last year, see reviews are top notch. I think you are just cheap. You want it for free, so you take it when you can. At least you admit it, even if it means you are stealing. Karma is a bitch. [Link]
Johnothan Pedak Senior Member Catastrophe 1594 Posts 6/07	Posted - Apr 7 2010 : 7:23PM Boob Enthusiast wrote: I can't justify paying for it when I just end up throwing 98% of it away due to male spitting and/or cameramen with a fondness for testicles and hairy crack. Click to expand This thread is worth reading just for awesome quotes like this one. [Link]
Bluto Deactivated User 511 Posts 3/09	Posted - Apr 7 2010 : 9:11PM Boob Enthusiast wrote: I would also point to Elegant Angel's titles as an example that refutes most of Boob enthusiasts complaints about modern porn, they make quality gonzo and vignette porn. Click to expand Elegant Angel? Seriously? They're like the ultimate purveyors of the kind of stuff I'm talking about. I long ago put them on my no-watch list, but they lured me back with Gianna Michaels in Big Wet Asses, Volume 773 or whatever. And it was a massive disappointment. Every scene followed the exact same formula and was even shot on the exact same couch. I'm guessing the entire movie was shot in a single afternoon, with a minimum of planning and rehearsing. And it was nothing but the standard contorted uncomfortable-looking sex, disgusting male spitting, and hideous crack-n-sack camera angles. Why are porn cameramen so obsessed with shooting from between the dudes' spread legs? I skimmed through the entire movie and promptly deleted it, annoyed that I couldn't enjoy watching Gianna having anal sex, but feeling grateful at least that I hadn't actually paid money to see it. If Elegant Angel is the best example you can come up with of "quality" porn, then that just makes me feel even more justified in acquiring it for free. It would be better and healthier if I stopped watching porn altogether, but for some stupid reason I can't give up hope that someday somebody with talent and vision will ignore the "way things are done" and produce something worth watching. But it's like banging my head against a wall. Apparently, people with talent just don't become pornographers. Click to expand I remember an early scene from Elegant Angel that showed "Roscoe Bowltree" jerking off on the foot of Tiffany Mynx, with lots of close-ups of fat Roscoe's face. I almost puked, and have never bought anything from them since. Truly a creepy company. [Link]
Len801 Deactivated User 754 Posts 9/07	Posted - Apr 7 2010 : 11:22PM Bluto wrote: I remember an early scene from Elegant Angel that showed "Roscoe Bowltree" jerking off on the foot of Tiffany Mynx, with lots of close-ups of fat Roscoe's face. I almost puked, and have never bought anything from them since. Truly a creepy company. Click to expand It became quite evident and obvious to anyone renting a few of those titles at the time that that was precisely his personal "fetish". And if you noticed, every actor-director working for the company was pretty much doing the same thing after he did it a few times. It made me squirm.... Like I said in my previous posts, while porn directors should have a certain style and vision, they should make every effort to concentrate more on what the consumer wants rather than foisting their own peeve "practices". They are making the movie for the paying public, not for vanity reasons. The same goes for certain porn directors who feel that they need to get in front of the camera (even for small non-sex roles and cameos) for no other reason that they believe they are entitled to show their mugs, and that it is THEIR movie. Edited by - Len801 on 4/7/2010 11:25:08 PM [Link]
BlackSix All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07	Posted - Apr 8 2010 : 2:27AM Boob Enthusiast wrote: Elegant Angel? Seriously? They're like the ultimate purveyors of the kind of stuff I'm talking about. I long ago put them on my no-watch list, but they lured me back with Gianna Michaels in Big Wet Asses, Volume 773 or whatever. And it was a massive disappointment. Click to expand I wouldn't say BWA is the best series by EA, although many would disagree with me. I prefer William H's Sporty Girls, Curvy Girls or Mason's great Massive Asses or her brilliant Slutwoman videos. They are relatively free of the ass-crack shots you have such a aversion to and not excessive on the spitting, which I barely notice myself, although the Slutwoman films are very hard and kinky, so spitting is the least of the stuff that would probably not work for you in that series. But EA was only one of my suggestions, I notice you didn't comment on any of the sites mentioned, there's no accounting for taste, but there are a lot of options out there still. Certainly no man ass or spitting within miles of Kissmegirl, IFeelMyself or AbbyWinters. Edited by - BlackSix on 4/8/2010 2:36:59 AM [Link]
charn fubar 2880 Posts 12/09	Posted - Apr 8 2010 : 4:46AM Boob Enthusiast makes some great points about the state of modern porn, although I have liked some stuff by Evil Angel. Generally their oral titles. I don't watch anal titles, so that's a whole mess of hairy nutsack shots I won't be seeing. [Link]
mharris127 Senior Member 1844 Posts 8/09	Posted - Apr 8 2010 : 7:59AM Len801 wrote: The cost to rent online can very from site-to-site, and from title-to-title. I rent from many places like: Excaliburfilms, Xrent, BushDVD, and AdultDvdEmpire. Most have monthly memberships where you can rent anywhere from like 1-to maybe 8 films a months for a set price. I think the (1) limits are usually like (1) film a week for a month for like $9-$10 bucks. I've often used the ones that offer unlimited monthly rentals of 3-4 films an order for like $25 a month. All listed offer single individual rentals from anywhere from .99c to $6.99 a dvd for a week or two weeks. Newer releases usually cost more and usually rent for about $4-$6. Some rent with a shipping fee per dvd, and some have a set shipping price per order of about $3-$4. One has no shipping fee and you simply pay the price of the rental. I prefer that latter one whenever possible, but sometimes they don't have what I want or when I want it. That can apply to all of them at different times though. I get deals on online rentals all the time though, although I will admit they are tougher to find with new releases. I usually pay about $4 for any given new release though, and usually have it for about two weeks before I have to return it. OK thanks. So shipping costs (them sending to you only?) may either be built into the rental price or billed/added on separately. I assume then that when you return the DVD(s) the shipping costs are incurred by you personally? So on average what are you really spending to rent an adult DVD for a brief period? (all costs factored in: montly fee, rental, shipping both ways, etc)? Is there a problem with lost/stolen/damaged items (them to you, and you to them) while the mechandise is in transit? Click to expand I used to rent from AVN (now Wanted List) and my $35 a month included up to 8 movies at a time and all shipping costs were on them, including a stamped, pre-addressed return envelope. I personally shipped them back three at a time in one of their envelopes when I returned them to save them on postage. [Link]
thorn7025 Member 17 Posts 4/10	Posted - Apr 8 2010 : 9:56AM This is my first post, been following this thread for days. I buy for Deja Vu's retail stores, so I'm on the front line as far as actually talking with consumers. I know many people in this industry, including Woody, although he probably doesn't remember me since I don't buy direct anymore (don't worry Woody, I still buy you're product from a distributor, all except the Vivid/Club Jenna gonzo lines. Can't give them away). As for box covers not mattering, you're dead, dead, dead wrong. We sell around 80 pieces daily, from all different genres and sell-thru. We have customers from all walks of life. Some are hardcore collectors that know when a movie streets and the day I should have it in stock. Some are casual people that just come in to look around. Those casual people that still buy (I know some of you won't believe it, but they exist), the box cover is the selling point. This even applies to some of my hardcore customers. They may have missed a title here or there, and when they see the box cover, if it looks good, they buy. Casual customers don't know stars by name, have never heard of London Keyes, Shyla Stylez, etc. They see 5 girls on a boxcover, 4 are really hot, then they buy. No way a casual customer buys a new release dvd in a plastic sleeve with no art, no matter the price. Box covers matter a ton, hence the reason certain titles in a series don't sell as well as others. I've even noticed that studios that invest the extra little bit in having an O-card do better than those that don't (of course, there are exceptions to the rule, like Hush Hush and Vivid). And toys already beat DVD sales, by a good amount too. Toys like the WE-VIBE 2, Lelo, Cal Exotics Couture Collection, etc. sell all too well, no matter the price. Which gets me thinking Woody, why hasn't Doc J put out a top of the line toy that costs over $100? I know you don't rep them, but maybe you would know. Pipedreams has one, Cal Ex has multiple, Topco is releasing a new line soon. Seems like Doc J should have one. And for piracy, anyone that thinks that it doesn't hurt my bottom line and Vivid's bottom line, you're not being realistic. I think the recession hurts more, but piracy is still hurting my sales. Young people are growing up with this notion that porn is free. It's ridiculous. People look at $24.95 for a new release and think that's too much, because it's free on the internet. I don't really have any solutions on how to contain it, other than to find someone and make an example of them, or maybe getting a service like Mike South pointed out, or use Nate from Hush. That won't stop everyone, but maybe it stops a few people. Maybe those people return to my store to buy, maybe they don't. But it helps stop the stealing. For anyone to say a DVD is too expensive either is being an ass or needs to find a better job. I price most of my new releases under $30, with the exception of Gay/Tranny porn, Evil Angel, Jules Jordan, and Justin Slayer. And for that guy Zaer, intellectual property is property, just not physical property. Someone selling a bootleg dvd is appropiating the owner's property. You may not look at it like that, but that's what they are doing. [Link]
AsianAnalPantyhoserGuy Deactivated User Ass fucking/ foot fetish/ pantyhose= insanity! 465 Posts 3/10	Posted - Apr 8 2010 : 10:52AM I was going to buy the ELEGANT ANGEL production BOOTILICIOUS GIRLS because of Kristina Rose. I wrote a rather flattering post on the scene and it disappeared into the ether without a simple "thank you". So ...I just accepted it for free. I could have had INVASIAN 4 the other day for free, but seriously, this is another example of porn that isn't even worth stealing to me. 1 girl doing no anal...no thanks. [Link]
hollywood woody Senior Member Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07	Posted - Apr 8 2010 : 12:29PM Thorn....welcome. Thanks for the comments of someone who is truly on the front line. Maybe if they hear it from someone who is at a brick and mortar store, they will believe that you don't have to walk into your store, to steal from you. Deja Vu is one of the best chains out there, and they do carry everything that is worth buying. Some of these posters don't understand why stores are going out of business, then complain there are no stores in their area. Maybe you could enlighten them what happens when an adult store closes, how hard it is for another to open, due to zoning etc. Once they are gone, they are gone. 20-20, who had 56 stores in L.A. has 5 stores left. It is a multitude of problems that lead to their demise. As for Doc Johnson, you would need to talk to them, they are on their own program. I do know we are and have been releasing really great stuff. Next week The Devil and Miss Jones The Resurrection, with Belladonna and Savanna is coming out, {shameless plug}, it is big budget, hard, nasty sex, with a great storyline. Our pre orders are thru the roof. So there is quality out there. Again welcome to the forum. [Link]
hollywood woody Senior Member Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07	Posted - Apr 8 2010 : 12:30PM Boob Enthusiast wrote: I'll start paying for porn again the day it contains all of the following: • Creative Scripts. I want scenarios to stimulate my brain as well as naked bodies to stimulate my dick. I want to see something that somebody put some thought and effort into. Like good erotica. • Chemistry. Nobody in contemporary porn ever seems to be enjoying themselves. Couldn’t they fake it? Whatever happened to acting? I don’t expect Kate Winslet-level performances, but it would be nice if the talent would at least try to look like they’re having fun. Sort of like in 70s/early 80s porn (except without the constant close-ups of man-face). • Realistic Sex. I want to feel like I'm watching real people fucking for their own pleasure. I'm OK with heightened realism, but I think modern porn has gone way too far toward cartoonish artificiality. I'm tired of the exaggerated & painful-looking contortions the performers are forced to endure. A lot of the most common sex positions in modern porn would make an Olympic gymnast wince. I'd rather see people having sex in symmetrical, comfortable positions that people use in real life. I don't care if this means I see less of the penetration. • Competent Camerawork. I want to see porn shot by somebody who loves the female body and has a good aesthetic sense. I want to see long slow sensual takes with good lighting and composition. Again, I don't expect Bergman or Tarkovsky. But I'm just sick of all the zoomy panny monkey-cam crap shot by people who don't even seem to find women attractive. I'm also sick of seeing the same angles in film after film--especially the endless close-ups of bobbing nut sacks and squinching male asses that you see in pretty much every film nowadays. • A complete industry-wide ban on male spitting. Or at least label that shit so I can avoid it. This is the specific act that chased me out of the DVD store sometime around 2005-06, and I've never been back. Until all of this happens, I will continue not to buy my porn. I can't justify paying for it when I just end up throwing 98% of it away due to male spitting and/or cameramen with a fondness for testicles and hairy crack. I don't really care if the porn industry collapses, because the overwhelming majority of porn has no value anyway. Click to expand The Devil and Miss Jones The Resurrection has everything you asked for, I bet you still don't buy it. [Link]
thorn7025 Member 17 Posts 4/10	Posted - Apr 10 2010 : 12:21PM Spot on Woody, if a store closes, that's it. It's not coming back, with the way laws are changing left and right, especially zoning laws. It's tough enough just to get an Adult Book/Video license, let alone make sure you have enough foot traffic in the shitty neighborhood/industrial area the city will actually let you build in. Then you have to map your store out perfectly, almost making the shopping seamless and not cluttered, even though the city will probably limit the size of your store. And don't even mention getting a theater or arcade license, you might as well have asked to city to build your store for you. And it is multiple things that cause a store to close, not just piracy. But piracy is a main culprit, especially in the lagging dvd sales. Almost all Deja Vu's have decreased the amount of dvd titles on their floor (I've actually expanded all three of my locations, apparently I'm doing an okay job cuz we are only down about 10% from our 2008 numbers). Piracy has alot to do with that downsizing. These people just don't seem to realize the work people put in to sell a product, to make sure you have every niche covered, and not just with cheap sell-thru, but new releases at a competitive price, only to have someone steal it by using the internet. They are stealing from my wallet, stealing my hard work and effort in researching all the titles. Makes me want to slam my head into the monitor. And Vivid is putting out real good stuff. The New DMJ should be awesome, I've already bumped my locations up extra pieces in anticipation. [Link]
BlackSix All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07	Posted - Apr 11 2010 : 5:37PM AsianAnalPantyhoserGuy wrote: I was going to buy the ELEGANT ANGEL production BOOTILICIOUS GIRLS because of Kristina Rose. I wrote a rather flattering post on the scene and it disappeared into the ether without a simple "thank you". So ...I just accepted it for free. Click to expand Give me a break, you justify that because someone didn't personally thank you on a forum? Does it occur to you that they may have a life outside of posting on the internet? Go outside and get some sunshine. [Link]
charn fubar 2880 Posts 12/09	Posted - Apr 12 2010 : 4:22AM Maintaining a tube site seems like such a waste of time and money. If I like a video I want my own copy of it, instead of being dependent on a site where it may be deleted at any time. [Link]
hollywood woody Senior Member Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07	Posted - Apr 12 2010 : 7:39PM Hey Thorn, if you noticed the people downloading for free have left this topic thread. They know what they do is wrong, they just don't really care. We are really looking into finding someone we can make an example out of. I think we will spend the money to prosecute, and see how that rocks the piracy boat. [Link]
Perverted_Jewish_Guy Deactivated User 207 Posts 4/10	Posted - Apr 12 2010 : 9:38PM hollywood woody wrote: I think we will spend the money to prosecute, and see how that rocks the piracy boat. Click to expand Good luck with that. If the music industry is having trouble fighting piracy, I have doubts that the porn industry will have much of a better chance. [Link]

Author

Post

juha
Senior Member

2752 Posts
3/05

Posted - Apr 5 2010 : 4:06PM

Len801,
what does this all have to do with our topic?
Nothing.
It doesn't matter what happened or didn't happen in the past.
It doesn't matter what somebody else does or doesn't.
It is your very own decision if you pay for what you watch or if you download it for "free" because you can get away with it and don't care about the people who created the product.
Edited by - juha on 4/5/2010 4:10:02 PM

[Link]

Len801
Deactivated User

754 Posts
9/07

Posted - Apr 5 2010 : 4:20PM

duefuss wrote:
If you RAN Vivid, I doubt you would be able to say at what point, if any, the company would forsake DVD's for selling novelties, etc.
Never mind that ANY company would be foolish and stupid to discontinue any product that was making money, even if it WASN'T making the money iit once did.
Also, if you RAN Vivid, you'd be saying how uncompensated downloading was hurting you, instead of the reverse. Which is ultimately the gist of all this endless debate and spurious justification for helping yourself to what is not yours.
You are getting something for nothing and that presents a dilemna. You can admit the truth that you are stealing but that makes you uncomfortable with yourselves.
You can rationalize that it isn't stealing but something else. I call this the "Judge Judy Defense," because every defendant on that program who's ever sued for a debt he owes comes on and claims it wasn't a debt at all, it was a gift or an exchange for services rendered or manna from Heaven (THEY never get away with it either).
The other thing you can do to molify your stealing is to justify it, i.e.say something like the victim of your theft deserves it or isn't harmed by it. This one you hear a lot from shoplifters (I know, I heard it when I was briefly in retail sales a million years ago). WalMart makes Billions of dollars a minute. Who cares if I steal one little CD? or Wal Mart's stuff is all this cheap Chinese shit; they rip us off, why shouldn't I return the favor
All of these ratioalizations and justifications have been repeated many times. none of them change the original poster's accurate admission that what he, and all the rest of us do when we download or copy without fair remuneration is stealing porn.
I'm only disappointed that I haven't heard anything REALLY original. I've had a couple of pretty good ideas myself. Maybe I'll log on as someone else and try a few here, just to liven it up.
Click to expand

I don't know if the "you" being used is directed at me personally or at other posters as well.
There has been no rationalization in the post you have quoted. I do not RUN Vivid, and I am not in that business (nor the sex toy business), so I do not know the workings of the entreprise, or what would prompt me to make any business decision. Unless you are also working for them, you cannot speak for them either in that respect.
Want to hear something original? First there was a donkey/horse/cow/camel/elephant that toook you from point A to point B. Somebody invented the wheel. Someone put a motor on a vehicle. Someone invented the train. The horse and buggy went out of style. The people who raised horses and people who built buggies folded and either went home or went into some other kind of business.
In Silent era, orchestras used to play musical scores in large theaters. When sound came in 70-80 years ago thousands of musicians lost their jobs. When someone invented the audio tape/cassette the plants that made vinyl discs had to shuit down and do something else.
Today it is DVD and in 15-20 years who can say what we will be using.
A few years ago people took pictures using film stock or Polaroid instant pictures. Polaroid has folded, hardly anyone is usikng film stock. Everyonehas gone digfital as well. What happened to all those labs and machines that churned out film stock, pictures?
Even though it did not involve illegal activity those business platforms folded because of progress.

[Link]

MikeSouth
Deactivated User

511 Posts
11/02

Posted - Apr 5 2010 : 4:25PM

Good news on this front
Removeyourcontent begins removing illegal tube google serps for clients, by the thousands, this month. We will begin targeting illegal tube placement in google and have them removed for infringement in mass. If you're a legit tube owner, you have nothing to worry about. If you are concerned, please contact your content provider.
what this means is that ryc which does a really good job is now targeting the search engine result pages for sites trafficking in illegal content.
Getting them delisted from google is a great way to deal another blow to the scumbags
thumbs up to RYC who are at least doing something....

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Len801
Deactivated User

754 Posts
9/07

Posted - Apr 5 2010 : 4:27PM

I know,I know. Nothing has anything to do with anything in your eyes. It's a broken record.
The producer wants to be compensated for something that was made 10-20-30-40 years ago, but is unwilling to also share that with the people who also "created" the product, right? Residuals is only a one way street.

[Link]

juha
Senior Member

2752 Posts
3/05

Posted - Apr 5 2010 : 4:45PM

But 40 year old product isn't the topic of this thread.
The biz is in a substantial crisis because the new product is pirated the moment it is released.
Hence a discussion about residuals simply doesn't fit.
Edited by - juha on 4/5/2010 4:46:54 PM

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mharris127
Senior Member

1844 Posts
8/09

Posted - Apr 5 2010 : 4:49PM

Sorry. My mind was out to lunch with that one, I guess. She is hot, I agree. Since the name was not in porn, I assumed that she was you.

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Len801
Deactivated User

754 Posts
9/07

Posted - Apr 5 2010 : 5:16PM

Listen Juha it is difficult to understand the argument when one does not possess the figures or has done an analysis of the situation. (I'll get back to the first part of your comment at the end)
For instance, the premise is supposed to be according to you the (porn) biz (and I am assuming you mean only adult and not mainstream) is in substantial crisis because the new product is pirated the moment it is released
Is there a crisis and is it all or substantially related to pirating?
(1) How many porn companies have folded say in last year-2-3 years? If you know who they are, have they released information as to the cause or causes of such closure? What kind of product were they producing?
(2) How many adult movies/titles/copies (DVD's) were being produced/released in 2006-2006-2007-2008 at least by the major porn companies?
(3) What were the profits/revenues of these companies as compared to what was being made say in 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, etc?
(4) Could it be that porn material is a matured business and most people have seen just about everything there is to be seen? Or do you think it is as fresh as it was in 1972, 1979, 1984, 1992? Does the porn industry really believe the business and sales of DVD will incrementally increase year over year considering it is a matured business?
(5) How do you qualify "pirating" (since you are the one who used the word)?
Meaning someone just sitting in front of a computer and downloading a movie via P2P for personal use?
Or do you mean that "pirating" is the mass illegal maufacture for profit? Does the industry know or have figures for either activity?
(6) if titles are being uploaded/downloaded the "moment" it is released, how are these people getting access to this material? What does it mean by "moment": same day, following day, a week before?
(7) Has the cost of producing an adult title in 2009-2010 substantially higher than it was say 5-109 years ago? Does talent cost really that much more today than say 2-3-4 years ago?
Has the cost of duplicating/manufacturing/distributing the product that more costly than it was in previous years?
(8) Is there too much glut of the product vs the real demand?
(9) Does not downturn in the economy say for last 1-2 years not affected the porn business and customer's economic ability or interest in the product? Does the product being made represent what the general client really wants to see?
Now as to the comment of 40 years, I said 10-20-30-40 years, but of course you wish to concentrrate on the figure "40" becase you wish to push it into prehistoric times. In the mainstream movie world residuals did not exist, and even in the video age contracts were being written to avoid paying residuals to those men and women who put the film together (scriptwriters, musicians, performers, etc). The studio want to keep everything for themselves and share profits with no one. When they have disagreements with talent over residuals they battle it out in court and keep the movie in a vault gathering dusts. The porn industry has no such residuals clause. They pay talent and film crew one time "performance" fee and that's it, regardless of what money you make from it at time of release or subsequent sales. But if porn talent were more say more "militant" and made greater demands on the production company, perhaps they would care more about the product as it direclty affects their future earnings, be it large or minimal. The music, TV, movie industry has residuals, but not porn.
Edited by - Len801 on 4/5/2010 5:32:02 PM

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Fernandez
Deactivated User

781 Posts
12/08

Posted - Apr 5 2010 : 6:02PM

Len801 wrote:
hollywood woody wrote:
arkdvd wrote:
howard,
i commend you on your patience.
you must know by now that most of the people who contend that piracy is not the problem are (a) not in our business and (b) have no idea what they are talking about.
i doubt they have ever considered why lingerie and adult novelty sales have not suffered in the same way that adult content has.
could it be because lingerie and adult novelties can't be digitally replicated and distributed?
Click to expand
You can't download a dildo. thanks.
Click to expand
If dildo and adult novelty ites sales/revenue far outstripped adult videos, Vivid and other companies would have closed shop and gone into that business long ago.
Certain things cannot be reproduced/replicated cheaply and quickly (or even well), while other things can be. That is the reality of technical advancement. You cannot stop progress. If you were a bit savvy I suppose you could build your own bicyle in your backyard (perhaps with little regard that certain workings of the machine may have some patened application) but it may not look or ride the same as a manufactured one.
Movies that used to be exhibited theatrically until the early 1980's, had a certain lifespan (the better ones used to be reissued from time to time, and later they were sold to TV), but until the video revolution of the arly 1980's that was basically it. The studios controlled the product worldwide.
While they now reap a lot more money on DVD sales than they do theatrical exhibition (which is still going strong worldwide, for a medium that started about a 100 years ago!) they weep endlessly about "pirating" and "downloading". Like I mentioned before, when video cassettes and DVD sales were in full swing, the studios basically kept the WHOLE money on old(er) and even new releases. You did not hear them weep when they were raking in the money, and they were not weeping if an old and little employed actor/actress had trouble paying his bills when they were making money off an older movie of his/hers.
Walmart does not stop selling merchandise (at low prices) just because people may be shoplifting (or because of internal theft). In the old days your parents may have told you that they never locked the doors of their house. Now you need to have the latest alarm system, and thugs/thieves get around that (and with home invasions).
But let us be frank about certain things. A number of prints of "lost" or banged up movies have been found in the possession of collectors (who definitely were not making money off of them). Many private collectors have rescued old classics from oblivion by the carelessness of the producing/distributing companies. A lot of music has been similarly preserved.
Edited by - Len801 on 4/5/2010 1:58:14 PM
Edited by - Len801 on 4/5/2010 2:24:33 PM
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Except that dildo sales and novelties already do outstrip dvd sales in many parts of this country and particularly in Europe, where sex aids is the fastest growing business on the continent. Of course they are replicated world wide but the mark up is so steep that huge profit margins are realized anyway. The next slippery slope was the high priced websites. First off, 29.95 for a month? A dollar a day for six or seven scenes of new footage? And having to give my credit card in perpetuity? And hearing nightmares about cancelling out of sites, being charged after not wanting to be a member any longer? Sounds terrible to me. The choice of downloading a scene and incurring the worst case scenario, a virus that might wipe out my hard drive and cost 200 bucks to fix still sounds better than having my credit card in someone else's hands, to me.
Now we get to the movies themselves. And let's face it, we can hardly call them movies anymore. There's no narrative, no story, barely a theme. Even picking up a MILF movie often means the actresses are simply in their twenties, thirties and forties. The concept of a MILF is more complicated than simply their child bearing age. It has to do with their station in life and maybe their longing for some excitement and thrills in a way a 20 year old girl isn't. So I might look at a movie and find there is maybe one scene, ONE SCENE, where the initial concept is actually approached that makes it worth a look. And I have to buy or rent an entire movie where little or no effort was made to see it.
Or there's some uploader who broke the movie down piece by piece, each scene is available as a separate download and I can ignore the girls who I don't find attractive and the ones who don't do good work and the ones working with a guy who fucks up the scene by putting the focus on himself. Oh my, that certainly is seductive.
So that may have been excuse number three.
But to be honest, it's not that appealing after a while.
It's like your working at a supermarket, and after hours you and your buddies take a shopping cart and steal every variety of potato chips.
Naturally your first instinct is going to be, take a bunch of your favorites and throw some new ones in there as well, try out flavors you didn't even think you'd like- because they're free! Somebody's paying for it, but they're free for you.
However, now you've got five hundred bags of potato chips. You didn't want them, but it didn't cost you anything. After a while you're eating two, three chips out of the bag and throwing them away because it's pointless to eat the crap you didn't want in the first place.
I don't want bad porn for free.
But the current economic model just doesn't work. It makes it very easy to rationalize stealing.
Why aren't there other pay modes besides credit card to allay my fears? I can buy virtually everything else in the world with paypal. Why not porn too? I rarely deal with an online merchant of any sort who doesn't allow me to put a barrier between my credit info and them.
And why must I pay for a month? Why can't I download according to what content I want? I can buy a song that cost ten grand to produce for 99 cents on iTunes, yet if I only want two or three scenes from a porn site I have to pay 30 bucks?
If the option is I pay a few bucks for a few scenes or your content remains unseen, wouldn't you rather make five, ten bucks as opposed to nothing?
And doesn't it make sense to actually make movies that somehow hit the theme target in a really powerful fashion? I hate brazzers and their relative lack of IR output, but I must admit they usually put five minutes worth of set up and follow through in their ideas.
I'm honestly not trying to justify theft, but it seems like porn has gotten stuck in this mindset where they shouldn't have to meet the consumer's needs in any new fashion. No changing the way we pay for it, no effort in production and no new ideas in how to price it.

[Link]

ChodeMasterJ
Perpetual Marxist

5405 Posts
4/03

Posted - Apr 5 2010 : 7:39PM

Thanks for the heads up on the book. Hahaha...I used an upside down American flag because, while American, I disagree with a lot of shit that America does and a lot of its policies, both militarily and economically. It was my understanding that having a flag upside down was disrespectful to the nation whose flag was being flown upside down, so I used that avatar. I was going to use a picture of a burning American flag but wasn't sure if the mods and owners would allow that. I might try it though.
I've been reading a lot of Karl Marx, Friedrich Engels, and Howard Zinn lately and am growing disenfranchised with the current state of things, namely the way our government and other governments are run and how economics and capitalism is intertwined in it. I'm just getting interested in how stuff is the way it is, why it is the way it is, and what can be done to make the future better for everyone, not just the super rich. Reading their writing really makes you think about this stuff. That's why I was asking about the Chomsky book. I'm an American but definitely do not agree with a lot of America's policies.

Thanks for the info on the book.

[Link]

ChodeMasterJ
Perpetual Marxist

5405 Posts
4/03

Posted - Apr 5 2010 : 7:42PM

Yeah it was pretty shitty. No time-and-a-half or Holiday pay for working Easter, either. Scoooooore!!

[Link]

BlackSix

All-Star Member

pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world
12377 Posts
9/07

Posted - Apr 6 2010 : 12:08AM

I was going to say this too, Adam & Eve are the most successful company in porn because of their huge sex aid sales via mail.

[Link]

Len801
Deactivated User

754 Posts
9/07

Posted - Apr 6 2010 : 2:21AM

So does that mean that when you see sex toys being used in an Adam & Eve production (or other company that is involved in both businesses enterprises) it should be considered "product placement", and plugging their own product? And that the use of the sex toys may have little or nothing to do with plot dramatic "motivation" of the scene in question? Ummmmm...
Edited by - Len801 on 4/6/2010 3:14:06 AM

[Link]

derek25
New Member

2 Posts
4/10

Posted - Apr 6 2010 : 8:28AM

I want to buy a DRM free copy of Gangbang Auditions 24, surely something which should be straight forward. Can I find a way of doing this - no. Monthly subs on the Diabolic site only.
Evil Angel is the only studio which provides simple one off purchases, which works well, but as the DIVX player needs to check your login these only work whilst you are online. I do not want to sign up for a monthly service to watch a production, nor do I buy any physical media anymore. All my music and movies comes online. Once I've bought the content I expect to be able to play it on the devices of my choosing. I do not expect a license check every time I want to watch content.
I want to buy content, simply on credit card, as a one off
I want it download rather than DVD
I want it DRM free (but I will play for protected content, but it p*sses me off)
I suspect I'm not alone.
Feel the file sharing client being sparked up.....
Derick

[Link]

duefuss
Member

Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious - Brendan Gill
723 Posts
4/09

Posted - Apr 6 2010 : 9:06AM

I was responding to your statement, "If dildo and adult novelty ites sales/revenue far outstripped adult videos, Vivid and other companies would have closed shop and gone into that business long ago." which contains no such disclaimer that you do not run Vivid, or that you do not know what they would do if novelty sales outran DVD sales. You simply make statements as though they are obvious truths that are neither obvious, nor are you in any position to know if they are true.
My own conjecture that Vivid would not stop selling something that was making them money is nothing more than the very commonest sense. The goal of all business is to make money. If you are making money from selling DVDs, you don't stop selling them, just because they aren't making as much money as they did, even if you start selling something else.
It is simply yet another instance in this thread of people taking something without paying for it while refusing to admit that they are taking something without paying for it,while pretending to know that it does no harm, that it does not matter, or that it somehow promotes the welfare of the porn business.

[Link]

Len801
Deactivated User

754 Posts
9/07

Posted - Apr 6 2010 : 9:54AM

duefuss wrote:
Len801 wrote:
I don't know if the "you" being used is directed at me personally or at other posters as well.
There has been no rationalization in the post you have quoted. I do not RUN Vivid, and I am not in that business (nor the sex toy business), so I do not know the workings of the entreprise, or what would prompt me to make any business decision. Unless you are also working for them, you cannot speak for them either in that respect.
Click to expand
I was responding to your statement, "If dildo and adult novelty ites sales/revenue far outstripped adult videos, Vivid and other companies would have closed shop and gone into that business long ago." which contains no such disclaimer that you do not run Vivid, or that you do not know what they would do if novelty sales outran DVD sales. You simply make statements as though they are obvious truths that are neither obvious, nor are you in any position to know if they are true.
My own conjecture that Vivid would not stop selling something that was making them money is nothing more than the very commonest sense. The goal of all business is to make money. If you are making money from selling DVDs, you don't stop selling them, just because they aren't making as much money as they did, even if you start selling something else.
It is simply yet another instance in this thread of people taking something without paying for it while refusing to admit that they are taking something without paying for it,while pretending to know that it does no harm, that it does not matter, or that it somehow promotes the welfare of the porn business.
Click to expand

No, I don't work for Vivid, and I do not know the workings of the company. If I worked for them, I would have so indicated or it should/would be more than obvious to anyone reading my posts. They can sell nuts and bolts and construction material if it so pleased them. Diversification is always good to make sure if one section goes bad you have something to fall back on. But when you see sex toys used in a movie produced by one of these companies that are also in the sex toys business, what do you deduce from that? The plot of the movie required it, or someone wanted to insert that to plug that line? Does talent know they are plugging the product, or are they required to do so as part of the "pay/performance" package?

In any event, you go from that quote of mine about sex toys into that totally unrelated last paragraph of yours regarding justification for taking something that is not mine. There was a need to throw in the kitchen sink for what point? Why don't you use that paragraph as part of your "signature" when posting, lest someobody not understand your point of vision?

[Link]

Aplus
Senior Member

1431 Posts
5/05

Posted - Apr 7 2010 : 2:03AM

Sorry it took so long for me to respond. I hadn't been online that much in the last 2 days.
I was talking strictly about physical dvd's. Just not into downloading porn or any other media really.
The cost to rent online can very from site-to-site, and from title-to-title. I rent from many places like: Excaliburfilms, Xrent, BushDVD, and AdultDvdEmpire. Most have monthly memberships where you can rent anywhere from like 1-to maybe 8 films a months for a set price. I think the (1) limits are usually like (1) film a week for a month for like $9-$10 bucks. I've often used the ones that offer unlimited monthly rentals of 3-4 films an order for like $25 a month.
All listed offer single individual rentals from anywhere from .99c to $6.99 a dvd for a week or two weeks. Newer releases usually cost more and usually rent for about $4-$6. Some rent with a shipping fee per dvd, and some have a set shipping price per order of about $3-$4. One has no shipping fee and you simply pay the price of the rental. I prefer that latter one whenever possible, but sometimes they don't have what I want or when I want it. That can apply to all of them at different times though. I get deals on online rentals all the time though, although I will admit they are tougher to find with new releases. I usually pay about $4 for any given new release though, and usually have it for about two weeks before I have to return it.

[Link]

Len801
Deactivated User

754 Posts
9/07

Posted - Apr 7 2010 : 2:40AM

Aplus wrote:
Len801 wrote:
I did not speak of "on line" renting as I have no personal experience with that. What do you pay for a on-line rental (including shipping, taxes, etc), and do you have a monthly/yearly fee to consider as well that needs to be factored in to the actual final cost? When you speak of "on-line", do you mean actual physical DVD or video streaming?
C
Click to expand
Sorry it took so long for me to respond. I hadn't been online that much in the last 2 days.
I was talking strictly about physical dvd's. Just not into downloading porn or any other media really.
The cost to rent online can very from site-to-site, and from title-to-title. I rent from many places like: Excaliburfilms, Xrent, BushDVD, and AdultDvdEmpire. Most have monthly memberships where you can rent anywhere from like 1-to maybe 8 films a months for a set price. I think the (1) limits are usually like (1) film a week for a month for like $9-$10 bucks. I've often used the ones that offer unlimited monthly rentals of 3-4 films an order for like $25 a month.
All listed offer single individual rentals from anywhere from .99c to $6.99 a dvd for a week or two weeks. Newer releases usually cost more and usually rent for about $4-$6. Some rent with a shipping fee per dvd, and some have a set shipping price per order of about $3-$4. One has no shipping fee and you simply pay the price of the rental. I prefer that latter one whenever possible, but sometimes they don't have what I want or when I want it. That can apply to all of them at different times though. I get deals on online rentals all the time though, although I will admit they are tougher to find with new releases. I usually pay about $4 for any given new release though, and usually have it for about two weeks before I have to return it.
Click to expand

OK thanks. So shipping costs (them sending to you only?) may either be built into the rental price or billed/added on separately. I assume then that when you return the DVD(s) the shipping costs are incurred by you personally?
So on average what are you really spending to rent an adult DVD for a brief period? (all costs factored in: montly fee, rental, shipping both ways, etc)? Is there a problem with lost/stolen/damaged items (them to you, and you to them) while the mechandise is in transit?
Edited by - Len801 on 4/7/2010 2:42:00 AM

[Link]

BlackSix

All-Star Member

pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world
12377 Posts
9/07

Posted - Apr 7 2010 : 2:58AM

That is available for download legally from the AdultDVDEmpire website, I'm not sure if it's completely DRM-free, although a lot of the content including all the Elegant Angel stuff is, but it does come with three 'viewing licenses' for up to three different computers. Hardly a bad deal, imo, and no I don't work for that website.

Edited by - BlackSix on 4/7/2010 3:04:47 AM

[Link]

BrekkyDJ
Member

Australia
246 Posts
10/06

Posted - Apr 7 2010 : 3:00AM

I recently sign up as a member with Naughty America.
One thing I've found so far is that the Flash Videos take longer to load on Naughty America than any tube site.
Granted, NA's flash is of better quality, but the tube sites aren't that bad (especially for nothing).
So it brings a point... I'm paying for a site that takes longer to load, while the free sites do it quicker. Not exactly attractive to the customer and his dollars, hey!
BrekkyDJ (That aussie guy)

[Link]

BlackSix

All-Star Member

pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world
12377 Posts
9/07

Posted - Apr 7 2010 : 3:06AM

^ When you go to the movie theatre doesn't it take longer for the movie to start than when you watch it on your computer? If you care about quality, the slightly slower start time hardly seems a concern, the reality is that most people don't care about the quality of porn, one way or the other.

Edited by - BlackSix on 4/7/2010 3:07:14 AM

[Link]

Boob Enthusiast
Member

91 Posts
3/08

Posted - Apr 7 2010 : 3:30AM

I'll start paying for porn again the day it contains all of the following:
• Creative Scripts. I want scenarios to stimulate my brain as well as naked bodies to stimulate my dick. I want to see something that somebody put some thought and effort into. Like good erotica.
• Chemistry. Nobody in contemporary porn ever seems to be enjoying themselves. Couldn’t they fake it? Whatever happened to acting? I don’t expect Kate Winslet-level performances, but it would be nice if the talent would at least try to look like they’re having fun. Sort of like in 70s/early 80s porn (except without the constant close-ups of man-face).
• Realistic Sex. I want to feel like I'm watching real people fucking for their own pleasure. I'm OK with heightened realism, but I think modern porn has gone way too far toward cartoonish artificiality. I'm tired of the exaggerated & painful-looking contortions the performers are forced to endure. A lot of the most common sex positions in modern porn would make an Olympic gymnast wince. I'd rather see people having sex in symmetrical, comfortable positions that people use in real life. I don't care if this means I see less of the penetration.
• Competent Camerawork. I want to see porn shot by somebody who loves the female body and has a good aesthetic sense. I want to see long slow sensual takes with good lighting and composition. Again, I don't expect Bergman or Tarkovsky. But I'm just sick of all the zoomy panny monkey-cam crap shot by people who don't even seem to find women attractive. I'm also sick of seeing the same angles in film after film--especially the endless close-ups of bobbing nut sacks and squinching male asses that you see in pretty much every film nowadays.
• A complete industry-wide ban on male spitting. Or at least label that shit so I can avoid it. This is the specific act that chased me out of the DVD store sometime around 2005-06, and I've never been back.
Until all of this happens, I will continue not to buy my porn. I can't justify paying for it when I just end up throwing 98% of it away due to male spitting and/or cameramen with a fondness for testicles and hairy crack. I don't really care if the porn industry collapses, because the overwhelming majority of porn has no value anyway.

[Link]

duefuss
Member

Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious - Brendan Gill
723 Posts
4/09

Posted - Apr 7 2010 : 9:46AM

Your point about the poor 'entertainment value' of most porn is well made, but the truth, as dazzlingly obvious as this thread makes it, is that, good, bad, or indifferent, if media can be had for nothing, without risk, people are not going to pay for it.
It is not that people are thieves by nature. I think the great majority of us wish to be honest and fair.
Those on this thread, who have striven to justify and excuse uncompensated downloading, have done so just because they DO wish to be honest and chafe at the knowledge they try so hard to deny that they are getting away with a form of stealing when they download porn.
But people are also sensible. Apart from the ethics of it, it is just plain illogical to pay for something when you can get it for nothing.
What's going to win? Ethics or common sense? If this thread doesn't give the answer to that question, any basic understanding of human nature will. One can always adjust his ethics, make subtle changes to his definition of what are pretty subjective ideas anyway, like justifiable actions and ethical motivation. It's a lot tougher to adjust-- or resist -- getting something for nothing.
Ironically, people like me, who come here to keep the apologist downloaders from easily excusing what they do, are probably far LESS moral and more cynical than they. I freely admit to downloading from tube sites. I also admit that what I'm doing is stealing: call it copyright infringement or whatever else you like, it's taking something for nothing that should be paid for, and I do it. Not often, but that mitigates nothing.
But unlike 'my opponents' I am more comfortable with my flaws. Does that make me better or more honest than they? Hardly. At least they struggle with what they do, TRY to make it right, or, at least, try to make it feel right to themselves. I don't even bother.
For the erotic media industry, I am the problem, not them because most downloaders are like me. They admit, more or less cheerfully, that they are stealing, if they think about it at all, and go right ahead and steal.
I know what would stop me from being a problem. It isn't arguing that what I do is unethical. One can see that plainly and at length in this thread.
What will eliminate me as the problem is to change the sensibleness of downloading. Make it harder to do. Realistically, you can't make it impossible, but making it just more difficult will turn me from a big problem into a small one.
Demonstrate that there is a risk of being caught, of paying consequences for piracy and illegal downloading. Place some technical barrier to downloading. Sure, any obstacle you devise will be bypassed by some. But most of us aren't Geeks. Most of us are like me: duffers, too lazy or ignorant not to be nicely confounded by anything even moderately sophisticated that stands in our way.
That is the solution to the problem. Since you cannot change the human nature that created it, you must use that same human nature to fix it, and the only way to stop any behavior is to make it more difficult to do or riskier to do.

[Link]

Len801
Deactivated User

754 Posts
9/07

Posted - Apr 7 2010 : 11:01AM

Duefuss your points are well taken and very well enunciated but hardly address what Boob Enthusiast and others have made in this thread.
I used to be a heavy renter (mainstream and adult) of VHS/DVD until a few years back. What is out there now hardly reflects what I am really looking for.
=I am generally displeasded with the 3-4hour 2-DVD disc sets. All it is it is just elongated and seemigly "unedited" footage. You are no more aroused by a 40-50 minute scene than say a 20-30 minute sex scene. If you have your finger on the fast forward button and skip through some of that maerial, then there is little justification for the long material to have been package that way in the first place. It no doubt adds to the costs of the DVD (wholesale/retail) and I really don't know what the general consumer thinks about it.
=I really can't stand the somewhat "rough" stuff" and "fetish" content of movies, which were/should be relegtaed to specialized titles. I really don't care for spitting on the face/body of a partner, toe sucking, hair pulling, pulling jaws apart, making the girl gag endlessly until she is practically in tears, making her swallow tons of cum when it is obvious the majority of these performers are really not into it. Sex should be a pleasurable experience for both partners not just one-sided (male) degradation of the female. The fetish costumes and paraphernalia should be relegated to specialized tapes. I do not wish to see a girl in a regular adult tape with hands and feet bound, with a gag ball in her mouth, a mask over her face, and people slapping her silly. If there is a market for that, put it somewhere else for those that prefer that type of activity. Keep it off "regular" adult titles.
=The fake moaning and loud screaming that female performers make in every sex scene of just about every DVD that it out there. You know "Oh my god, oh my god, fuck me, fuck me..." ad nauseam. Go back to the adult movies that were made back in the 1970's, 1980', 1990's and compare, and see what I mean.
=Everything is filmed the same way (by mostly addled directors and cameramen) who seem to be making the movie for themselves and not for the audience that will be paying for it. Poor camerwork and poor editing do not make for a winning combination. Show the girl's face once in a while, I don't want to see the guy's hairy ass or ugly tattoos. Most scenes begin with both partners already fully naked and male erect. There is little or no build up.
=The theory that more is better. Meaning that if the directors puts 3-4-6-10 people in a scene you get more bang for the buck. The sex that you enjoy in your personal life (or perhaps in your fantasy) do not usually involve 6-7 people. With two or 3 couples in a sex scene it gets confusing, and the camera keeps going from one to the other and misses out a lot on the couple that might interest you the most. Keep it simple!
=If you are going to shoot a MILF/mature women movie, put women that appear to be of a certain age or are a little beyond 25. The guy they are cast with (who is supposed to be a young man at least from the plot outline) is often older than the actual actress!
=The industry knows very well what male actors (there are plenty of posts her on ADT to tell you who they are) that really don't click with the general public, but it keeps casting them. They will say, hey he's a porn legend, been working for years in the industry, he is entitled to work, etc. Sure this happens all the time in the mainstream movie industry, but for the most part you know who is in the film before you walk in a movie theater or buy/rent the DVD. In porn, it is not very often you even see the names of the male cast on the box cover or even see their faces from the small thumbnails. So you buy or rent an adult movie and discover there is one or two male actors that make you hurl. Why can't they list their names on the box cover instead of all the other useless garbage?
If the porn industry concentrated more on making the kind of product (not that they WANT to make) that people want to see, and make it available to them in the way they would like, and stop making garbage that few want to see, then perhaps people will come back. Less quantity and more quality would appeal to everyone.

[Link]

witling
Member

46 Posts
1/07

Posted - Apr 7 2010 : 11:30AM

Although I am not interested in that particular title I took a look in there to see what kind of service they are offering. Based on my initial impressions I am not rushing to use their services:

Downloading one title is kind of expensive. Especially because...

I could find no concrete information about video quality or free sample clips to check it. I suspect they offer standard DVD resolution not too different from sites like Videobox.

DRM is nothing but trouble.

I guess with these prices I would rather opt for a subscription-based solution with unlimited downloads for a flat monthly payment. That could mean that these days I tend to view porn more like generic and interchangeable "stuff" rather than indvidual works of art, which would be a shame. THen again the open buffet model works pretty well for gonzo type porn.
I think I have bought one or two physical DVDs from Adult DVD Empire in the past. But that was ages ago...
I guess I am rather suspicious by nature and tend to subconsciously expect anything porn-related to be a scam of some sort. I was initially very wary of subscribing to any porn paysites but those fears at least have so far been unfounded.

[Link]

Aplus
Senior Member

1431 Posts
5/05

Posted - Apr 7 2010 : 11:43AM

Len801 wrote:
Aplus wrote:
Len801 wrote:
I did not speak of "on line" renting as I have no personal experience with that. What do you pay for a on-line rental (including shipping, taxes, etc), and do you have a monthly/yearly fee to consider as well that needs to be factored in to the actual final cost? When you speak of "on-line", do you mean actual physical DVD or video streaming?
C
Click to expand
OK thanks. So shipping costs (them sending to you only?) may either be built into the rental price or billed/added on separately. I assume then that when you return the DVD(s) the shipping costs are incurred by you personally?
So on average what are you really spending to rent an adult DVD for a brief period? (all costs factored in: montly fee, rental, shipping both ways, etc)? Is there a problem with lost/stolen/damaged items (them to you, and you to them) while the mechandise is in transit?
Edited by - Len801 on 4/7/2010 2:42:00 AM
Click to expand
Again it can very. I have eccentric tastes at times, which doesn't make it easy to rent from the same place, all the time.
I usually like to combine an order no matter what I do, unless it's a no-shipping fee order. Not really sure how specific I'm allowed to be on here, so that's why I wasn't. Here goes though.
A recent BushDVD order cost me about $8.50 for 5 films. I paid $1.99 for one three-disk set, $$1.99 and $1.49 for the two other films. Add $3 total for shipping. I will add that Bush doesn't always offer multi-disk films like that, and you usually have to rent them separately if you rent by the month, especially the newer releases. I used to use BushDVD's monthly service, where I typically got 12 films in a month for $26. Their delivery in slow to where I live, so I don't doubt some could get 16 films in a month. I prefer them for monthly rentals though.
A typical AdultDVDEmpire individual order cost me $3.99 a film, sometimes $4.99 a film if it's brand new. No shipping fee. I think orders can be combined, although I don't tend to do that with them. I prefer them for new releases. I've gotten many rentals for $1.99 with them though, although those tend to be older to slightly older films. They ship (to me) out of PA, which is much closer to where I live, so I usually get most orders in 2-3 days, typically 2 days. They may ship out of different locations though....just not sure. I think they just started renting multi-disks, which I'll admit can be a problem with a lot of the companies.
Xrent is higher for individual orders. I usually pay $3.99 for a new/newer film, and $1.99 for an older films. Add $3.00 shipping and it's about $7.99 for 2 films. I basically only use them if I can't find a film I want anywhere else. I have used their monthly service before which is more valuable IMO. I used the 3 film order for like $23, I think. Been a while, so I can't remember the exact price. Xrent usually ships in about 3-4 days where I live. So I'd say I usually got between 12-15 films in any given month depending on how long I kept them. Xrent does rent multi-disks films for a single price, which makes them my favorite (usually) for multi-disk rentals. I think you have to waste two orders on a monthly basis though.
Excaliburfilms has individual rentals for $2.95 a film, plus $3.00 shipping cost, per film. I basically only use them for older or hard-to-find dvd's, which they seem to have a higher supply of than most other companies. They rent new films like everybody else though. They also rent by the month, which I have used at times over the years. Been a while, but I actually prefer monthly with them. Can't remember exact prices by the month, but I know it seemed more economical.
I haven't too many problems with damaged or defective disks luckily. All companies simply offered to replace it once I notified them about it.
Edited by - aplus on 4/7/2010 11:50:38 AM
Edited by - aplus on 4/7/2010 11:59:34 AM

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duefuss
Member

Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious - Brendan Gill
723 Posts
4/09

Posted - Apr 7 2010 : 12:01PM

I couldn't agree more that about the failure of almost all porn to be what it is supposed to be: erotic. I've been hollering about that on ADT in one way or another since I got here.
My own pet issue in this thread, as you know, has been one not directly related to quality, but my simple insistence that downloading pirated porn is a defacto collusion with the theft. My motive in starting this argument is principally the same as for being on ADT: first, as an excercise in organizing my own aged and muddled thinking, and second, as an admittedly mostly futile effort to aid and appreciate a part of culture that I value.
The LAST thing I mean to imply is that any viewpoint, especially my own, is superior to another. But that free downloading is harmful to this business, as many in the business say, seems logical to me, and reducing the profits of this business can only negatively impact any chance we the customers ever have of getting the quality we want.

[Link]

hollywood woody
Senior Member

Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin
1567 Posts
2/07

Posted - Apr 7 2010 : 12:53PM

Boob Enthusiast wrote:
I'll start paying for porn again the day it contains all of the following:
• Creative Scripts. I want scenarios to stimulate my brain as well as naked bodies to stimulate my dick. I want to see something that somebody put some thought and effort into. Like good erotica.
• Chemistry. Nobody in contemporary porn ever seems to be enjoying themselves. Couldn’t they fake it? Whatever happened to acting? I don’t expect Kate Winslet-level performances, but it would be nice if the talent would at least try to look like they’re having fun. Sort of like in 70s/early 80s porn (except without the constant close-ups of man-face).
• Realistic Sex. I want to feel like I'm watching real people fucking for their own pleasure. I'm OK with heightened realism, but I think modern porn has gone way too far toward cartoonish artificiality. I'm tired of the exaggerated & painful-looking contortions the performers are forced to endure. A lot of the most common sex positions in modern porn would make an Olympic gymnast wince. I'd rather see people having sex in symmetrical, comfortable positions that people use in real life. I don't care if this means I see less of the penetration.
• Competent Camerawork. I want to see porn shot by somebody who loves the female body and has a good aesthetic sense. I want to see long slow sensual takes with good lighting and composition. Again, I don't expect Bergman or Tarkovsky. But I'm just sick of all the zoomy panny monkey-cam crap shot by people who don't even seem to find women attractive. I'm also sick of seeing the same angles in film after film--especially the endless close-ups of bobbing nut sacks and squinching male asses that you see in pretty much every film nowadays.
• A complete industry-wide ban on male spitting. Or at least label that shit so I can avoid it. This is the specific act that chased me out of the DVD store sometime around 2005-06, and I've never been back.
Until all of this happens, I will continue not to buy my porn. I can't justify paying for it when I just end up throwing 98% of it away due to male spitting and/or cameramen with a fondness for testicles and hairy crack. I don't really care if the porn industry collapses, because the overwhelming majority of porn has no value anyway.
Click to expand

So I take it you don't watch it. Or is this just another justification to steal it?
If you watch it through illegal downloads, then everything you wrote is just bullshit.
If you don't watch it at all, I respect that.
But it sounds like you do watch it. You just don't want to pay for it.
I also must add there are companies out there that produce high quality porn, Vivid, Wicked, Digital Playground, Evil Angel, Elegant Angel and the list goes on.
So you can't justify paying for your porn, but you can justify stealing it to watch it? Just asking?

[Link]

BlackSix

All-Star Member

pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world
12377 Posts
9/07

Posted - Apr 7 2010 : 1:30PM

As I mentioned Elegant Angel's titles are DRM-free, not that DRM bothers me personally. I've downloaded DRM files and backed them up to disc and watched them several times. I don't know what the quality at Videobox is like but I find it to be fine.
As for the rest of your post, I see what you mean, I use VOD and website subscriptions quite a bit myself, but either way there are a lot of legal options.
I would also point to Elegant Angel's titles as an example that refutes most of Boob enthusiasts complaints about modern porn, they make quality gonzo and vignette porn. Not to mention websites like Ifeelmyself.com, Kissmegirl, AbbyWinters, etc. For rougher stuff there is Jake Malone at Evil Angel, Mason at Elegant, Kink.com. Wicked still do some good features but that is definitely the weakest genre right now unfortunately. There still isn't enough good pornography being made, but to claim that it is all crap is just not true.
Edited by - BlackSix on 4/7/2010 1:46:05 PM

[Link]

Imaginative
Deactivated User

158 Posts
5/05

Posted - Apr 7 2010 : 2:02PM

Are there any sites that offer DRM-free porn from the major studios at $3 to $4 a scene? People want to be able to follow the scenes of their favorite stars, without having to pay for 3 to 4 scenes of little interest every time. That is why the DVD model is broken. Because porn is obviously structured as individual scenes (for the most part), it is more akin to the music business that the film industry (i.e. no one is interested in stealing just the first 20 minutes of "Star Wars").
Porn needs an iTunes equivalent, where people can pay a reasonable price just for what they want. The industry has done nothing to provide honest consumers of porn what they want and deserve, a feasible and cost effective way of collecting virtually every sex scene of their favorite performers (or directors).
I think everyone here agrees that it is VERY rare for a 5 sex-scene porn movie to provide 5 scenes of equal value to the consumer. If one of my favorite performers shares a DVD with four breast-enhanced women (something I completely avoid except for 1 or 2 rare exceptions of women who manage to be hot DESPITE what they did to their chest), is there anyway for me to LEGALLY obtain just that scene, day-and-date with the DVD (regardless of which studio it's from), for a reasonable price? As far as I know, there isn't.
iTunes proves that people will pay for convenience and value.
Edited by - imaginative on 4/7/2010 2:04:41 PM

[Link]

witling
Member

46 Posts
1/07

Posted - Apr 7 2010 : 2:08PM

Yes I tend to think that when someone announces his perception of "what's wrong with porn" it usually applies only to a certain subset of porn and they are ignoring or not being aware of anything that doesn't conform to their view.
As for features, I guess the point (or at least one point) I was reaching for earlier was that features are the most likely genre to be hurt by downloading, whether legal or illegal, just because it is more convenient to pick isolated scenes. You could make an analogy to album-oriented music being hurt by people downloading single tracks and thereby breaking the intended wholeness of the work. Recently Pink Floyd won a lawsuit against EMI over just this matter, although that doesn't change the way their music is available digitally.
Or does this make sense?

[Link]

Zaer
Deactivated User

249 Posts
10/07

Posted - Apr 7 2010 : 3:43PM

A better example would be, you buy a few bags of chips, then when you leave the store, you use a matter replicator to make numerous copies of the chips and then give those to your buddies.
Were those copied chips stolen?
Obviously not.
The situation is the same with content.

As for the argument that making file sharing more difficult will work, ask the MPAA and RIAA how well that's working for them.
Then ask them how much money they're making now that consumers have an easy to use pay option with iTunes.
The rational solution is to give consumers easy to use pay options.
Edited by - Zaer on 4/7/2010 3:46:16 PM

[Link]

Boob Enthusiast
Member

91 Posts
3/08

Posted - Apr 7 2010 : 3:44PM

Elegant Angel? Seriously? They're like the ultimate purveyors of the kind of stuff I'm talking about. I long ago put them on my no-watch list, but they lured me back with Gianna Michaels in Big Wet Asses, Volume 773 or whatever. And it was a massive disappointment. Every scene followed the exact same formula and was even shot on the exact same couch. I'm guessing the entire movie was shot in a single afternoon, with a minimum of planning and rehearsing. And it was nothing but the standard contorted uncomfortable-looking sex, disgusting male spitting, and hideous crack-n-sack camera angles. Why are porn cameramen so obsessed with shooting from between the dudes' spread legs? I skimmed through the entire movie and promptly deleted it, annoyed that I couldn't enjoy watching Gianna having anal sex, but feeling grateful at least that I hadn't actually paid money to see it.
If Elegant Angel is the best example you can come up with of "quality" porn, then that just makes me feel even more justified in acquiring it for free. It would be better and healthier if I stopped watching porn altogether, but for some stupid reason I can't give up hope that someday somebody with talent and vision will ignore the "way things are done" and produce something worth watching. But it's like banging my head against a wall. Apparently, people with talent just don't become pornographers.

[Link]

Boob Enthusiast
Member

91 Posts
3/08

Posted - Apr 7 2010 : 4:05PM

Yeah, pretty much this is the case. My justification for stealing porn is the same as my justification for stealing music.
I mostly don't like the kind of music that gets played on the radio, MTV, and other mainstream outlets. The best way to find new music is to read about it on the internet and then download it to try it out. I download tons of music for free. But this has the effect of fueling my obsession with music and vastly expanding my horizons. I'm listening to stuff now that I would have never taken a chance on 10 years ago when I had to pay $17 for some CD I wasn't even sure I'd like.
Because of my increased interest in music, fueled by downloading, I also end up buying a lot of music. Maybe only 10-15% of my music collection is purchased legally. But this 10-15% represents a lot more total music than I was buying a few years ago, before I started downloading.
I would do the same for porn, except that good porn seemingly doesn't exist. Or it's so rare that it's like looking for a needle in Nebraska. So I never end up buying any porn, but just keep searching and searching with vague hopes, kind of like the SETI project.

[Link]

hollywood woody
Senior Member

Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin
1567 Posts
2/07

Posted - Apr 7 2010 : 6:18PM

Zaer wrote:
Fernandez wrote:
It's like your working at a supermarket, and after hours you and your buddies take a shopping cart and steal every variety of potato chips.
Naturally your first instinct is going to be, take a bunch of your favorites and throw some new ones in there as well, try out flavors you didn't even think you'd like- because they're free! Somebody's paying for it, but they're free for you.
Click to expand
A better example would be, you buy a few bags of chips, then when you leave the store, you use a matter replicator to make numerous copies of the chips and then give those to your buddies.
Were those copied chips stolen?
Obviously not.
The situation is the same with content.
As for the argument that making file sharing more difficult will work, ask the MPAA and RIAA how well that's working for them.
Then ask them how much money they're making now that consumers have an easy to use pay option with iTunes.
The rational solution is to give consumers easy to use pay options.
Edited by - Zaer on 4/7/2010 3:46:16 PM
Click to expand

I have never seen a digital potato chip.
Your comparison is unrealistic.
You content that art and images, media, once it is made and you buy a copy, you own the right to do with it as you please.
The law says otherwise.
You have complete disregard for the law, and the owners of such content.
That is the simple truth. Just admit that.

[Link]

hollywood woody
Senior Member

Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin
1567 Posts
2/07

Posted - Apr 7 2010 : 6:33PM

Boob Enthusiast wrote:
So you can't justify paying for your porn, but you can justify stealing it to watch it? Just asking?
Click to expand
Yeah, pretty much this is the case. My justification for stealing porn is the same as my justification for stealing music.
Thank you for at least being an honest thief.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I mostly don't like the kind of music that gets played on the radio, MTV, and other mainstream outlets. The best way to find new music is to read about it on the internet and then download it to try it out. I download tons of music for free. But this has the effect of fueling my obsession with music and vastly expanding my horizons. I'm listening to stuff now that I would have never taken a chance on 10 years ago when I had to pay $17 for some CD I wasn't even sure I'd like.
Are these free downloads or are you stealing them too? If stealing is the way you are going, it kind of negates your whole argument, because this is stuff you say you like, you just don't want to pay either way, like it or not.
Sounds like you just don't like to support the artists you listen too.
How would like it, at the end of a hard days work your boss just decided not to pay you?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Because of my increased interest in music, fueled by downloading, I also end up buying a lot of music. Maybe only 10-15% of my music collection is purchased legally. But this 10-15% represents a lot more total music than I was buying a few years ago, before I started downloading.
So they should thank you for only stealing 85% of what you listen too.
Great point.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I would do the same for porn, except that good porn seemingly doesn't exist. Or it's so rare that it's like looking for a needle in Nebraska. So I never end up buying any porn, but just keep searching and searching with vague hopes, kind of like the SETI project.
Click to expand

That is really not a true statement, I know , I hesitate to give you titles for fear you will just steal them, that great stuff is being made. Tres Flores got editors choice from XBIZ, whom we do not advertise with, so it is for sure unbiased.
Devil and Miss Jones the Resurrection is big budget, great script with Belladonna.
All of B Skows movies over the last year, see reviews are top notch.
I think you are just cheap. You want it for free, so you take it when you can.
At least you admit it, even if it means you are stealing. Karma is a bitch.

[Link]

Johnothan Pedak
Senior Member

Catastrophe
1594 Posts
6/07

Posted - Apr 7 2010 : 7:23PM

This thread is worth reading just for awesome quotes like this one.

[Link]

Bluto
Deactivated User

511 Posts
3/09

Posted - Apr 7 2010 : 9:11PM

Boob Enthusiast wrote:
I would also point to Elegant Angel's titles as an example that refutes most of Boob enthusiasts complaints about modern porn, they make quality gonzo and vignette porn.
Click to expand
Elegant Angel? Seriously? They're like the ultimate purveyors of the kind of stuff I'm talking about. I long ago put them on my no-watch list, but they lured me back with Gianna Michaels in Big Wet Asses, Volume 773 or whatever. And it was a massive disappointment. Every scene followed the exact same formula and was even shot on the exact same couch. I'm guessing the entire movie was shot in a single afternoon, with a minimum of planning and rehearsing. And it was nothing but the standard contorted uncomfortable-looking sex, disgusting male spitting, and hideous crack-n-sack camera angles. Why are porn cameramen so obsessed with shooting from between the dudes' spread legs? I skimmed through the entire movie and promptly deleted it, annoyed that I couldn't enjoy watching Gianna having anal sex, but feeling grateful at least that I hadn't actually paid money to see it.
If Elegant Angel is the best example you can come up with of "quality" porn, then that just makes me feel even more justified in acquiring it for free. It would be better and healthier if I stopped watching porn altogether, but for some stupid reason I can't give up hope that someday somebody with talent and vision will ignore the "way things are done" and produce something worth watching. But it's like banging my head against a wall. Apparently, people with talent just don't become pornographers.
Click to expand

I remember an early scene from Elegant Angel that showed "Roscoe Bowltree" jerking off on the foot of Tiffany Mynx, with lots of close-ups of fat Roscoe's face. I almost puked, and have never bought anything from them since.
Truly a creepy company.

[Link]

Len801
Deactivated User

754 Posts
9/07

Posted - Apr 7 2010 : 11:22PM

It became quite evident and obvious to anyone renting a few of those titles at the time that that was precisely his personal "fetish". And if you noticed, every actor-director working for the company was pretty much doing the same thing after he did it a few times. It made me squirm....
Like I said in my previous posts, while porn directors should have a certain style and vision, they should make every effort to concentrate more on what the consumer wants rather than foisting their own peeve "practices". They are making the movie for the paying public, not for vanity reasons.
The same goes for certain porn directors who feel that they need to get in front of the camera (even for small non-sex roles and cameos) for no other reason that they believe they are entitled to show their mugs, and that it is THEIR movie.
Edited by - Len801 on 4/7/2010 11:25:08 PM

[Link]

BlackSix

All-Star Member

pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world
12377 Posts
9/07

Posted - Apr 8 2010 : 2:27AM

I wouldn't say BWA is the best series by EA, although many would disagree with me. I prefer William H's Sporty Girls, Curvy Girls or Mason's great Massive Asses or her brilliant Slutwoman videos. They are relatively free of the ass-crack shots you have such a aversion to and not excessive on the spitting, which I barely notice myself, although the Slutwoman films are very hard and kinky, so spitting is the least of the stuff that would probably not work for you in that series.
But EA was only one of my suggestions, I notice you didn't comment on any of the sites mentioned, there's no accounting for taste, but there are a lot of options out there still. Certainly no man ass or spitting within miles of Kissmegirl, IFeelMyself or AbbyWinters.

Edited by - BlackSix on 4/8/2010 2:36:59 AM

[Link]

charn
fubar

2880 Posts
12/09

Posted - Apr 8 2010 : 4:46AM

Boob Enthusiast makes some great points about the state of modern porn, although I have liked some stuff by Evil Angel. Generally their oral titles. I don't watch anal titles, so that's a whole mess of hairy nutsack shots I won't be seeing.

[Link]

mharris127
Senior Member

1844 Posts
8/09

Posted - Apr 8 2010 : 7:59AM

Len801 wrote:
The cost to rent online can very from site-to-site, and from title-to-title. I rent from many places like: Excaliburfilms, Xrent, BushDVD, and AdultDvdEmpire. Most have monthly memberships where you can rent anywhere from like 1-to maybe 8 films a months for a set price. I think the (1) limits are usually like (1) film a week for a month for like $9-$10 bucks. I've often used the ones that offer unlimited monthly rentals of 3-4 films an order for like $25 a month.
All listed offer single individual rentals from anywhere from .99c to $6.99 a dvd for a week or two weeks. Newer releases usually cost more and usually rent for about $4-$6. Some rent with a shipping fee per dvd, and some have a set shipping price per order of about $3-$4. One has no shipping fee and you simply pay the price of the rental. I prefer that latter one whenever possible, but sometimes they don't have what I want or when I want it. That can apply to all of them at different times though. I get deals on online rentals all the time though, although I will admit they are tougher to find with new releases. I usually pay about $4 for any given new release though, and usually have it for about two weeks before I have to return it.
OK thanks. So shipping costs (them sending to you only?) may either be built into the rental price or billed/added on separately. I assume then that when you return the DVD(s) the shipping costs are incurred by you personally?
So on average what are you really spending to rent an adult DVD for a brief period? (all costs factored in: montly fee, rental, shipping both ways, etc)? Is there a problem with lost/stolen/damaged items (them to you, and you to them) while the mechandise is in transit?
Click to expand

I used to rent from AVN (now Wanted List) and my $35 a month included up to 8 movies at a time and all shipping costs were on them, including a stamped, pre-addressed return envelope. I personally shipped them back three at a time in one of their envelopes when I returned them to save them on postage.

[Link]

thorn7025
Member

17 Posts
4/10

Posted - Apr 8 2010 : 9:56AM

This is my first post, been following this thread for days. I buy for Deja Vu's retail stores, so I'm on the front line as far as actually talking with consumers. I know many people in this industry, including Woody, although he probably doesn't remember me since I don't buy direct anymore (don't worry Woody, I still buy you're product from a distributor, all except the Vivid/Club Jenna gonzo lines. Can't give them away).
As for box covers not mattering, you're dead, dead, dead wrong. We sell around 80 pieces daily, from all different genres and sell-thru. We have customers from all walks of life. Some are hardcore collectors that know when a movie streets and the day I should have it in stock. Some are casual people that just come in to look around. Those casual people that still buy (I know some of you won't believe it, but they exist), the box cover is the selling point. This even applies to some of my hardcore customers. They may have missed a title here or there, and when they see the box cover, if it looks good, they buy. Casual customers don't know stars by name, have never heard of London Keyes, Shyla Stylez, etc. They see 5 girls on a boxcover, 4 are really hot, then they buy. No way a casual customer buys a new release dvd in a plastic sleeve with no art, no matter the price. Box covers matter a ton, hence the reason certain titles in a series don't sell as well as others. I've even noticed that studios that invest the extra little bit in having an O-card do better than those that don't (of course, there are exceptions to the rule, like Hush Hush and Vivid).
And toys already beat DVD sales, by a good amount too. Toys like the WE-VIBE 2, Lelo, Cal Exotics Couture Collection, etc. sell all too well, no matter the price. Which gets me thinking Woody, why hasn't Doc J put out a top of the line toy that costs over $100? I know you don't rep them, but maybe you would know. Pipedreams has one, Cal Ex has multiple, Topco is releasing a new line soon. Seems like Doc J should have one.
And for piracy, anyone that thinks that it doesn't hurt my bottom line and Vivid's bottom line, you're not being realistic. I think the recession hurts more, but piracy is still hurting my sales. Young people are growing up with this notion that porn is free. It's ridiculous. People look at $24.95 for a new release and think that's too much, because it's free on the internet. I don't really have any solutions on how to contain it, other than to find someone and make an example of them, or maybe getting a service like Mike South pointed out, or use Nate from Hush. That won't stop everyone, but maybe it stops a few people. Maybe those people return to my store to buy, maybe they don't. But it helps stop the stealing. For anyone to say a DVD is too expensive either is being an ass or needs to find a better job. I price most of my new releases under $30, with the exception of Gay/Tranny porn, Evil Angel, Jules Jordan, and Justin Slayer. And for that guy Zaer, intellectual property is property, just not physical property. Someone selling a bootleg dvd is appropiating the owner's property. You may not look at it like that, but that's what they are doing.

[Link]

AsianAnalPantyhoserGuy
Deactivated User

Ass fucking/ foot fetish/ pantyhose= insanity!
465 Posts
3/10

Posted - Apr 8 2010 : 10:52AM

I was going to buy the ELEGANT ANGEL production BOOTILICIOUS GIRLS because of Kristina Rose. I wrote a rather flattering post on the scene and it disappeared into the ether without a simple "thank you". So ...I just accepted it for free.
I could have had INVASIAN 4 the other day for free, but seriously, this is another example of porn that isn't even worth stealing to me. 1 girl doing no anal...no thanks.

[Link]

hollywood woody
Senior Member

Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin
1567 Posts
2/07

Posted - Apr 8 2010 : 12:29PM

Thorn....welcome.
Thanks for the comments of someone who is truly on the front line.
Maybe if they hear it from someone who is at a brick and mortar store, they will believe that you don't have to walk into your store, to steal from you.
Deja Vu is one of the best chains out there, and they do carry everything that is worth buying.
Some of these posters don't understand why stores are going out of business, then complain there are no stores in their area.
Maybe you could enlighten them what happens when an adult store closes, how hard it is for another to open, due to zoning etc.
Once they are gone, they are gone.
20-20, who had 56 stores in L.A. has 5 stores left.
It is a multitude of problems that lead to their demise.
As for Doc Johnson, you would need to talk to them, they are on their own program.
I do know we are and have been releasing really great stuff.
Next week The Devil and Miss Jones The Resurrection, with Belladonna and Savanna is coming out, {shameless plug}, it is big budget, hard, nasty sex, with a great storyline.
Our pre orders are thru the roof.
So there is quality out there. Again welcome to the forum.

[Link]

hollywood woody
Senior Member

Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin
1567 Posts
2/07

Posted - Apr 8 2010 : 12:30PM

Boob Enthusiast wrote:
I'll start paying for porn again the day it contains all of the following:
• Creative Scripts. I want scenarios to stimulate my brain as well as naked bodies to stimulate my dick. I want to see something that somebody put some thought and effort into. Like good erotica.
• Chemistry. Nobody in contemporary porn ever seems to be enjoying themselves. Couldn’t they fake it? Whatever happened to acting? I don’t expect Kate Winslet-level performances, but it would be nice if the talent would at least try to look like they’re having fun. Sort of like in 70s/early 80s porn (except without the constant close-ups of man-face).
• Realistic Sex. I want to feel like I'm watching real people fucking for their own pleasure. I'm OK with heightened realism, but I think modern porn has gone way too far toward cartoonish artificiality. I'm tired of the exaggerated & painful-looking contortions the performers are forced to endure. A lot of the most common sex positions in modern porn would make an Olympic gymnast wince. I'd rather see people having sex in symmetrical, comfortable positions that people use in real life. I don't care if this means I see less of the penetration.
• Competent Camerawork. I want to see porn shot by somebody who loves the female body and has a good aesthetic sense. I want to see long slow sensual takes with good lighting and composition. Again, I don't expect Bergman or Tarkovsky. But I'm just sick of all the zoomy panny monkey-cam crap shot by people who don't even seem to find women attractive. I'm also sick of seeing the same angles in film after film--especially the endless close-ups of bobbing nut sacks and squinching male asses that you see in pretty much every film nowadays.
• A complete industry-wide ban on male spitting. Or at least label that shit so I can avoid it. This is the specific act that chased me out of the DVD store sometime around 2005-06, and I've never been back.
Until all of this happens, I will continue not to buy my porn. I can't justify paying for it when I just end up throwing 98% of it away due to male spitting and/or cameramen with a fondness for testicles and hairy crack. I don't really care if the porn industry collapses, because the overwhelming majority of porn has no value anyway.
Click to expand

The Devil and Miss Jones The Resurrection has everything you asked for, I bet you still don't buy it.

[Link]

thorn7025
Member

17 Posts
4/10

Posted - Apr 10 2010 : 12:21PM

Spot on Woody, if a store closes, that's it. It's not coming back, with the way laws are changing left and right, especially zoning laws. It's tough enough just to get an Adult Book/Video license, let alone make sure you have enough foot traffic in the shitty neighborhood/industrial area the city will actually let you build in. Then you have to map your store out perfectly, almost making the shopping seamless and not cluttered, even though the city will probably limit the size of your store. And don't even mention getting a theater or arcade license, you might as well have asked to city to build your store for you. And it is multiple things that cause a store to close, not just piracy. But piracy is a main culprit, especially in the lagging dvd sales. Almost all Deja Vu's have decreased the amount of dvd titles on their floor (I've actually expanded all three of my locations, apparently I'm doing an okay job cuz we are only down about 10% from our 2008 numbers). Piracy has alot to do with that downsizing.
These people just don't seem to realize the work people put in to sell a product, to make sure you have every niche covered, and not just with cheap sell-thru, but new releases at a competitive price, only to have someone steal it by using the internet. They are stealing from my wallet, stealing my hard work and effort in researching all the titles. Makes me want to slam my head into the monitor.
And Vivid is putting out real good stuff. The New DMJ should be awesome, I've already bumped my locations up extra pieces in anticipation.

[Link]

BlackSix

All-Star Member

pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world
12377 Posts
9/07

Posted - Apr 11 2010 : 5:37PM

Give me a break, you justify that because someone didn't personally thank you on a forum? Does it occur to you that they may have a life outside of posting on the internet? Go outside and get some sunshine.

[Link]

charn
fubar

2880 Posts
12/09

Posted - Apr 12 2010 : 4:22AM

Maintaining a tube site seems like such a waste of time and money. If I like a video I want my own copy of it, instead of being dependent on a site where it may be deleted at any time.

[Link]

hollywood woody
Senior Member

Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin
1567 Posts
2/07

Posted - Apr 12 2010 : 7:39PM

Hey Thorn,
if you noticed the people downloading for free have left this topic thread.
They know what they do is wrong, they just don't really care.
We are really looking into finding someone we can make an example out of.
I think we will spend the money to prosecute, and see how that rocks the piracy boat.

[Link]

Perverted_Jewish_Guy
Deactivated User

207 Posts
4/10

Posted - Apr 12 2010 : 9:38PM

Good luck with that. If the music industry is having trouble fighting piracy, I have doubts that the porn industry will have much of a better chance.

[Link]