"Survive the droughts, I wish you well"........ Jay Z, American Dreamin 56 Posts 2/09
Posted - Mar 30 2009 : 1:01AM
I'm replying to you in this forum as you accurately indicate that it is the more appropriate one for the discussion. Your distinction between tribalism and racism is correct. Your point that having a strong identity to ones race does not make one a racist is valid. My problem with your position is that you dont want to admit that an exclusionary rule is racist. A girl that will not perform with any black man is expressing not a preference, but an exclusionary rule. As a black man, I may have an attraction to, or preference for, big asses or dark skin, but those factors are less important to me than the content of a womans character. Therefore, there are some women of every race that I am willing to have a relationship with, work with, or have sex with on camera. Your point that tribalism is no longer needed for our survival is poingnant, but you should be intellectually honest and admit that tribalism may express an preference but to express publicly that there are no members of a given race acceptable to work with is racist. Thats just the bottom line.
I gotta tell ya, boys: Chris was magnanimous enough to let Skronk and I on set when he shot Kylee Reese for this DVD and the scene was smoking! As for the whole "She won't do Black Guys" thing...whatever, man! Why would I waste my time chastising every woman who chooses NOT to engage with any race? Thats a whole lot of wasted energy. I watch porn to see women actually enjoying sex (or at least doing a credible job of acting as if they enjoy sex). If she's not down with the brown, I don't need to see the frown - know what I mean? Besides, the only ones not doing IR are those who haven't enjoyed the sweetness of the JAG
But somebody has to shell out that cash. As long as there are plenty of performers doing IR at the normal pay rates (or a little extra), nobody is gonna pay outrageous money to any performer, no matter how "special" she is. That's business too.
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rambo99ca Deactivated User
ca 406 Posts 3/06
Posted - Mar 31 2009 : 1:20AM
Saw it today,actually it was a big letdown, the girls looked uninspired IMO.
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Rosco Fuji Deactivated User
On the licking stick, Mr. Magic Dick! 3309 Posts 2/09
Posted - Mar 31 2009 : 2:57PM
Why is it a big deal if the girl doesn't do black guys? Instead of focusing on the ones who don't, let's focus on the ones that do, and do lots of black guys at one sitting. What could be hotter, a chick who is phoning it in, or a pasty white, 18 year old doing 2 or 3 guys at once. Chances are the girls that don't do black turn in uninspired performances in general, IE Jesse Jane, Jenna, etc, so let's praise the ones that do.
simmond>>>My problem with your position is that you dont want to admit that an exclusionary rule is racist.<<< "Dont want to admit it"? Hello. I'm am telling you that it is NOT! If I decide to only invite my baseball friends to my parties that does not mean I hate all my hockey friends. C'mon simmond. This cant be made any simpler. I like baseball better than hockey.
"Survive the droughts, I wish you well"........ Jay Z, American Dreamin 56 Posts 2/09
Posted - Apr 1 2009 : 7:29AM
Richie you're going to have to make it simpler. I simply can't think of a preference I have that rises to the level of exclusion from all others. Especially when dealing with people. If I'm throwing a party I invite people I like. Those that I don't invite are probably people I don't like. Now lets say its a football party and I think that the people that will most enjoy the party are my male friends that like football. I may invite my football friends first but if my other friends express a desire to attend, I'm not going to turn them down. Moreover if I like my other friends and desire there friendship, I'm going to make some overture to them, like maybe throw another party for them. Moreover I didn't not invite them because I didn't want them around, but because I didn't think they would enjoy that particular party. That's not the same as what no I/R porn actresses do. These girls are not deciding that a black performer is inappropriate for a particular role(party). They are deciding that no black performer is ever appropriate. You people keep talking about preference like this is dating service or a night club. Its not, its work. If Lex Steele and Tera Patrick are the best performers for a particular movie, I think both of them should be professional enough to put there "preferences" aside make a good movie. You think Meryl Streep has been nominated for 15 oscar nominations because she keeps finding roles she feels comfortable in? No, its because she is a professional. She performs, she becomes a different person. She acts. And if you think sex on camera is "different" then what you're telling me is that you don't think these girls can separate sex from emotion.
Although hesitant to admit it - I have to agree. I guess I'm still left with just nit caring if an actress/performer allows anything to get in the way of choosing differently than I would. It just doesn't hit me deep, as there are always plenty others who will! Porn may be work and acting just as Meryl Streep does - but it does include a certain level of intimacy (emotional or not) that other 'work' does not...for that reason, I just won't fault anyone their "choices"...although I do dislike it immensely when they allow those "choices" to be imposed upon them by other people's perceptions.
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the unknown pervert Deactivated User
I'd like to stay but I've got a plane to catch. 3243 Posts 5/06
Thats not entirely fair, I think more than a few posters in this thread have presented logical, non-emotional opinions.
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the unknown pervert Deactivated User
I'd like to stay but I've got a plane to catch. 3243 Posts 5/06
Posted - Apr 2 2009 : 9:35AM
Sorry, I just don't see how or why anyone else other than the woman should have final say over who that woman does or does not have sex with. I don't care if she is having sex for money, love, or just for the hell of it no one else makes the decision of who she fucks other than herself. Just because you don't like her reasoning or explanation doesn't give you the ability to override her decision. (Just so you know JAG by "you" I am referring to the more gung ho members of the we'll keep bitching about her until she fucks who we want her to fuck crusaders, not yourself. I have no beef with you. You seem like a down to earth, rational guy who is not hung up on the subject.)
Yeah, you are right...the main problem here is that there are too many people (fans, agents, studios, etc) trying to tell the performers who they should be doing onscreen. Without all that clamor, this would all go away. "I like to watch"
I agree. But also you have to look at it like this. Without those fans, consumers etc... telling girls their opinions and telling girls what they like and don't like to see what would happen then. They lose fans. You lose fans, you lose money. You lose money and you lose your company/job whatever. Then what are you? Money is a big deal especially at a time like this. Now I'm not saying a girl should be forced to have sex with anyone she doesn't want to for whatever reason. What I am saying is that girls who do avoid black male talent because of an underlying racial issue.....that is just garbage. And there should be no need for that here. And them making up retarded ass excuses like "I don't do black guys because they are too big", etc, is just irritating. I would rather her say she doesn't like black people then to make up a bullshit excuse to try to save face. Hell I asked a girl on Metro Babes if she did IR and she made a slight face like she was disgusted and proceeded to say "I don't do that". WTF! Is it illegal?! Is it that horrible?! I then immediately logged out and decided to never buy her movies. I don't mind a girl not wanting to have sex with a guy for whatever reasons. I still watch plenty of girls that don't have sex with black guys. Its just........sigh! I'm done. Oh and you know what else. I find it funny and hypocritical that some girls won't have sex with black guys(especially the ones that use the "too big" reason), But then they turn around and fuck Ramon(the Hispanic dude from Bang Bros). He's alright but one of the ugliest, non english speaking guys around. I thought he was a bum at first. And he has a huge dick. So they will fuck a White guy with a huge dick. A spanish/hispanic guy with a huge dick. But not a black guy with a huge dick. Explain the logic in that one. lmao! Now I'm done. *****The Dr. of Nasty*****
"Survive the droughts, I wish you well"........ Jay Z, American Dreamin 56 Posts 2/09
Posted - Apr 2 2009 : 10:19PM
I dont have the ability to override her decision, but I can label it what it is racist. You just dont like the fact that I call it so. Moreover, I dont see why sex work is this particular class of work wherein people get to discriminate on the basis of race. Work is by definition not intimate. The libertarianism on this board is great in theory, but it cannot be sustained in practice. One person wants to be able to reject all black sex performers because it is "intimate" another person wants to reject all white people that want to share a water fountain because to them, sharing a water fountain is "intimate". Look we have a black president. Im not saying this matter is the great moral crusade of our time. But it is important in this sense. As I have mentioned in other posts, I have always detected this subtle contempt for black people in the adult field. The no I/R girls are a symptom of that contempt. I think that contempt does affect the careers of blacks in this industry. I would like to ask the the African American members of this forum if they agree with my impression. If the feedback that I get differs from my impression, I will stand corrected.
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Richie04 Deactivated User
50 Posts 4/08
Posted - Apr 3 2009 : 12:48AM
Uhh aint you people changing the topic? The question is not if a "no i/r" is bad for thier careers the question is - does it = racism. Is it bad for their careers? I couldn't give shit. I'm not their agent. Edited by - Richie04 on 4/3/2009 1:00:00 AM Edited by - Richie04 on 4/3/2009 1:14:51 AM
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Richie04 Deactivated User
50 Posts 4/08
Posted - Apr 3 2009 : 12:57AM
simmond--As I have mentioned in other posts, I have always detected this subtle contempt for black people in the adult field.--- AHHHH! Finally get to the bottom of this stupidity. Look simmond you can believe the moon is made of swiss cheese. I dont give a shit and I dont see why anyone else should either.
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the unknown pervert Deactivated User
I'd like to stay but I've got a plane to catch. 3243 Posts 5/06
Posted - Apr 3 2009 : 9:50AM
Maybe because it is the only line of work where you can fuck on the job and not face disciplinary action. You can't look at porn like a 9 to 5 corporate job. That is like looking at the Coney Island 4th of July hot dog eating contest as a tasting of culinary cuisine. Last I heard any porn performer not under contract with a specific company is an independent contractor. They are free to take or refuse whatever work is offered their way. Just like house painters, carpenters, and anyone else listed in the service directory of your local newspaper's classified ad section. I also don't buy the work is not intimate definition. How do you explain co-workers who start personal relationships and have affairs with each other? Anything can be intimate if two people decide they want it to be.
Porn Actresses should also educate them selves about the porn business, alot of them are getting rip off and used.Educate yourself and do your homework before you act on things or u might regret it.
Easy now, Big Guy! Do NOT oversimplify what I posted. I NEVER said that I wanted to or accepted "reject(ing) all black sex performers because it is 'intimate." I had originally accepted that you had made some cogent points in an earlier message. Now I see that was basically a lucky shot by someone shooting wildly at all targets! If you are finished with your singular note, you can move on now to people that give a darn about what you have to say. Your attempt to impose your will on a performer's choice is as inane as those 'protectors' who dissuade them for poor reasons.
Meryl Streep - like all actors/performers - has the choice of what roles she will and won't perform. If she doesn't want to perform something involved in a role, she can (and does, I'm sure) simply choose not to pursue or accept that role.
"Survive the droughts, I wish you well"........ Jay Z, American Dreamin 56 Posts 2/09
Posted - Apr 4 2009 : 11:10AM
Independent contractors cannot discriminate on the basis of race. Neither can actors. The fact that intimacy may develop from the professional relationship doesnt mean the work the performers did to meet isnt work.
I'm talking about big "star" actors (e.g. Streep) -- who have already been cast and hired -- who have approval rights over various considerations in their contracts -- including co-stars! [ invalid url ] (see page 151/152 Creative Controls) Edited by - BigBobxxx on 4/4/2009 3:53:10 PM
"Survive the droughts, I wish you well"........ Jay Z, American Dreamin 56 Posts 2/09
Posted - Apr 4 2009 : 11:22PM
And if the no IR girls would just keep quiet about their prejudices we wouldnt be having this discussion. But when girls go on Howard Stern and basically announce that they think black men are inferior, I kinda have a problem that.
If you "would just keep quiet about [your] prejudices we wouldn't be having this discussion." But when trolls come on ADT and basically take umbrage every time IR is mentioned, I kinda have a problem with that. (God, I hate myself for feeding the troll.)
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the unknown pervert Deactivated User
I'd like to stay but I've got a plane to catch. 3243 Posts 5/06
Posted - Apr 5 2009 : 9:38AM
Allow me to burp him then. If you don't have a sexual attraction towards someone that doesn't mean you think they are inferior. It would be different if these women were refusing to do scenes because the director or cameraman was black and the women were using that as a sole measure of their ability. Assuming they are not fucking the cameraman and/or the director in the scene, then you would justification to cry racism.
"Survive the droughts, I wish you well"........ Jay Z, American Dreamin 56 Posts 2/09
Posted - Apr 5 2009 : 11:38AM
I'd like to thank this forum for helping me make a decision ragarding another area of my life. To be very brief, I have a civilian day job wherein Im asked to sell a service, that Im not certain is 100% legitimate. I need this job, have a daughter to feed, and like the people at the job. But Im going to quit monday. Im going to do so because I have come to re-realize something that I learned in the streets as a hustler. It is what it is. I can justify my staying at this job as much as I want, but it doesnt change the fact that If I stay at this job, I have decided to con people for a living. It is what it is. This forum helped me come to this decision. I have had several members of this forum, a number of senior members, and at least one moderator of this forum make the case that; making a race based distinction is not racist, or, that even if it is racist its ok in this one area. Ive been accused of "taking unbrage" on this issue. Ive been told that the issue was "stupidity". Ive been accused of "trying to over ride" girls will. Ive been accused of trying to "impose my will" on a performers choices. All because I would like to see the porn industry live up to the standards of mainstream society where, while many people are in fact racist, in the aggregate there is at least an attempt to create a color blind society. Before I met the mother of my child, I had never dated a white girl. I basically thought all white people were racist. I was wrong. I was a racist. And because I outgrew that bigotry, I now have a beautiful daughter. See, one day I had to decide that a womens character, and the way she treated me was what mattered in life. Just as I would like to see actresses like Alexis Love decide that an actors ability to deliver a good scene was what mattered. Deciding whether something is racist or not is actually pretty easy. It comes down to whether the internal is being valued or the external - skin color. To say publicly that there are no members of a given race that one can be turned on by, or that one can give a good sex scene with - is racist. It devalues the internal in favor of skin color. It is racist. It is what it is. With that said - I am going to drop this issue. As I mentioned before I have been accused by the moderator of "taking umbrage" on this issue. As an invited guest I will do as I have been asked and will not comment on this issue again. I guess its ok to feel strongly about an issue as long as you dont make your point to succinctly. But this is not my forum. Im going to step aside. It is what it is.
I'm not here, this isn't happening! 2571 Posts 6/04
Posted - Apr 5 2009 : 1:56PM
I read simmond's contribution to this thread and I was quite impressed. I think in all kind of races there are people, who have their prejudices 'bout other races. I know alot of chinese and japanese who are far more racist towards black than all whites I know. And there are really many of the black community who are really racists, especially towards whites. If a male actor would say, I only do black women and no white women, then noone would call this racist. A girl who says, that she does not want to fuck black guys is not a racist to me. Some girls love to and some girls are not. But producers selling their movies as "Good Girls Gone Black", "Slant Eye for the White Guy", "Little White Slave Girls" etc. are far mor racist than a girl saying she doesn't do black, yellow or whatever guys. Just my POV
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Richie04 Deactivated User
50 Posts 4/08
Posted - Apr 6 2009 : 9:08PM
Well simmond I'm glad you got what you came for. Although I for one would never take into consideration opinions from people on this message boards to help me decide an important decision in my life. It's almost (not quite) as bad as listening to TV evangelists.
For some reason, I was thinking the same thing as I scrolled through and read your posts.Yes, I do. Just like you have an opinion on those same girls. Don't let your double standard get in the way though.Should we ask SIlvia Saint about that? Claiming to be one of the classier "black performers" is like bragging you were the top Quarter back in the Arena Football League. I've heard enough stories and seen enough things from some of these guys that calling them classy is about as legitimate as calling Osama a true fan of the USAWell, I think a very large Rocco fan base would disagree. Same can be said about Julian. And when I look through the women guys like Randy Spears, Brad Armstrong, TT Boy, Tom Byron, etc have been with, on and on screen, I would say they have been pretty prolific stars in their own right. Plus, in white porn, the women are the stars. In IR porn, the males are pushed on the box cover. Which is probably another reason why women don't want to do that kind of work.I disagree. I use to love Julia Ann. To the best of my knowledge, had every single movie that was released with her in it. I was sad when she retired, but happy she went out on top. Then she came back. Then she did IR. Not only will I not watch any of her new stuff, I threw out all her old stuff. Julia Ann lost me as a fan, and I'm sure countless others. Maybe she gained some. But the fact is, she lost fans, and that hurt her career. Not to mention, I have not bought or watched any scene that those girls you mentioned are in. In fact, I couldn't pick their pictures out of a police line up. If Abbey Brooks, Ashlynn Brooke, Jesse Jane, Tera Patrick, Nina Mercedez, etc, etc ever did IR, I would do the same for them I did to Julia Ann's work. Truth is, of the girls who's names I recognize in porn, most of them have very little or no work in IR. And those that have, either seemed to do it at the beginning or the end when they desperately needed work. But when their careers were flying high, they kept it clean. RIght off the bat, I don't have some sick twisted mind or have any hatred towards women, so I have no interesting in seeing porn that is made for the sole purpose of degrading females. And the vast majority of "IR porn" out there is what I would describe as degrading porn. Just look at some of the responses here, forcing women to have to work with black men if they want to have a job. Affirmative Action may have got a whole lot of under qualified people jobs they should have never got, but forcing a women to have sex with someone they don't want to have sex with is a bit much (of course it was comical to see how many of these pro IR people objected when the mention of mandating women to have to do midget porn came up.). You want more white girls to do IR, stop the degrading nature of the movies and maybe they will. You want racial harmony, get more men of different racial back grounds into porn. But if you want to bitch why certain women won't do certain things, then go right ahead. But while you are at it, ask why they won't do lesbian stuff or midget, or gangbangs, or DP, or DPP. But before you do that, make me a list of non white female adult stars who have come out and said they will not work with any WM in the biz. Then ask yourself why that is.
Wow. All I can say is that there are a lot of sick people in this world. To the prior poster, I suggest you stop hating yourself so much. Get help and a basic community college education while you're at it. Cheers.
I haven't laughed out loud when reading a forum as much as i did reading Sammy's post. So much comedy to start a flame war. LOL The Resident Gamer/ComicNerd
Yeah and a closet full of white sheets and pillow cases. I bet he has a ton of clorox in his house too. Gotta get those blood stains out. WTF??? WOW! This guy.
So all the personal jabs but no one wants to refute any of my statements? Guess it's hard to do when you can't. If a girl doesn't want to do IR, that is her God given right. And if you don't want to support her by buying her movies, that is your God given right. If a girl wants to do IR, that is her God given right. And if you don't want to support her by buying her movies, that is your God given right. It's pretty much that simple. The fact that any of you are trying to make more of it, just shows how ignorant and dimwitted you truly are. Thanks for proving though that people who get off watching women being humiliated are truly the scum of the planet
Down to choice I think, I like IR films of all kinds but I think it is up to them really. I was thinking the other day, I don't think I have ever seen an Asian male porn star before in a film. That I find strange.
Its a good point. I have actually seen one dude about two times iirc. Mika Tan was trying to create an IR flick that would feature Asian male talent but I guess the idea died on the vine...maybe she's still working on it. When perception becomes reality in enough minds, it is difficult to counter the ignorance. "I like to watch"
For AM/XF porn (other than JAV of course) check out anything with Keni Styles, who works mostly in Europe (his blog), or Hung Lo's site shelovesasiancock.com (lots of hotties here), or this long-running thread.
