Pay rates aside...I feel the same as you do about certain girls. For example I like Brooklyn Chase but refer her IR work much more than her white on white work. She does enough IR stuff that I can ignore her white on white performances and get enough of her from her IR work. The DOGFART audience seems to love her. I think there are pornstars who do their best work doing IR. There are performers who are just have a big IR following. Some girls like Kelly Divine, Keisha Grey, Julez Ventura, and a long list others I feel did their best work doing IR. Then there are some like Riley Reid, Sasha Grey, Valentina Nappi who's best work probably always isn't IR (mostly because all their scenes are great) but seeing them do IR adds bonus points to those scenes for me personally. Then there are girls who do IR but not that regularly so when they do it becomes a sorta big deal for me and I'll go out of my way to see it/buy it. (All my opinions, I didn't name names to debate. Feel free to feel differently, just trying to make a point). So yeah, it's possible that when a girl does IR it becomes a bigger deal and attracts more viewers because her regular audience, IR fans, and fans of that director may flock to those scenes. So when a girl does IR for Blacked, DOGFART, JULES or whoever they might have the fans of that studio/director, IR fans, and the girl's normal audience that follows her from project to project where as she may not attract those numbers doing a typical white on white scene for a studio like BANGBROS, NAUGHTY AMERICA, or whoever. Doing IR might bring in a crowd who usually doesn't watch her work.
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WhiteEagle Deactivated User
25 Posts 10/17
Posted - Oct 16 2017 : 4:32PM
In other words you betrayed your country. Plain and simple... O_o
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WhiteEagle Deactivated User
25 Posts 10/17
Posted - Oct 16 2017 : 4:51PM
Really sad...
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Snowbunny Sorcerer Deactivated User
She's hot but not my type of stroke game, I don't play sword fights with that which mirrors me. 146 Posts 5/17
Posted - Oct 16 2017 : 6:19PM
Yeah that "thing" being racism/white supremacy.....
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Oct 16 2017 : 7:11PM
^Yeah, because that doesn't exist in Europe. No one's ever heard of white supremacism there. The "reason" (not the "thing", you're confused) in America is consumer demand for a distinct interracial category.
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Snowbunny Sorcerer Deactivated User
She's hot but not my type of stroke game, I don't play sword fights with that which mirrors me. 146 Posts 5/17
Posted - Oct 18 2017 : 12:14AM
^lol, NO, Europeans are way more chill when it comes to race it seems, no justification for dumb shit like IR. Edited by - Snowbunny Sorcerer on 10/18/2017 12:17:21 AM
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Oct 18 2017 : 1:14AM
^Yeah, it is so damn chill over there. For instance, about 100 racist, fascist thugs paraded by candlelight in Charlottesville here in the US on August 11, yet fascists are able to march thousands through Kiev every year for a candlelight vigil in honor of the dead fascist pig Stepan Bandera. That is so chill. Have you heard of Right Sector? DIYA? Svoboda? And that's just Ukraine. Fascists in Poland gathered 75,000 into the streets of Warsaw on Polish Independence Day last year, and 70,000 the year before. I'm sure that's news to you, and that you'd be shocked to learn that the existence of a neo-Nazi terrorist cell in the German army was discovered during Spring this year, or that thousands of fascists attended the "Rock against foreign infiltration" festival in Thuringia in July, where there were repeated chants of "Sieg Heil!" from both rock bands and attendees. So chill. Get informed. The justification here is consumer demand. Maybe you should make the case that IR fans are racist for keeping the genre alive and thereby giving agents and producers the incentive to approach IR the way that they do? Will you make the argument?
Edited by - misspornUSA on 10/18/2017 1:18:17 AM
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Jaygatsby777 Deactivated User
1118 Posts 6/17
Posted - Oct 18 2017 : 3:37AM
Madison Ivy. Wondering if her first will be with brazzers since she's a contract star. Edited by - Jaygatsby777 on 10/18/2017 3:38:11 AM
^ If you mean has Brazzers shot a performer's first IR scene before, then yes. But never a woman they've had under contract, but I'd say that's more because they've never had a woman under contract that was willing to do her first IR for them (they did have Peta contracted before she shot hers for Blacked). In general, I think if Madison is serious about wanting to shoot it, then they'll do it.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Oct 20 2017 : 1:01AM
^Why won't you call the IR fandom racist? European porn does not have a domestic market for IR as a distinct genre, or at least producers there haven't yet recognized or developed one. That is the difference. It is the consumers, the fans who make the difference. They are the ones who keep IR alive as a distinct genre. They are the ones who give agents and producers the incentive to approach IR the way that they do. Again, is that racist? Are IR fans racists? I spent a lot of time on this thread in denial about the role that consumers play in all of this, but now I own it, and why not? I fucking love IR.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Oct 20 2017 : 1:15AM
^^Now you want me to believe that you were being sarcastic? In reality you knew nothing about the dire political trends in Europe, and you assumed that since European porn consumers apparently don't have a distinct interest in watching black men have sex with non-black women, then everything in Europe must just be hunky-dory.
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Snowbunny Sorcerer Deactivated User
She's hot but not my type of stroke game, I don't play sword fights with that which mirrors me. 146 Posts 5/17
Posted - Oct 20 2017 : 4:07AM
^Believe me, I know how racist Europe is, but in spite of the tribalism and nationalism in Europe, this does not infect their porn scene somehow? I wonder why???. We keep hearing about how America is so diverse and tolerant yet the porn industry can be very racist in it's approved. It Has NOTHING to do with consumer demand, that's akin to any reductionist retort to racism like states rights, lower taxes, feminism, gay rights, economics, class etc. AMERICA HAS A SERIOUS PROBLEM WITH CALLING A SPADE SPADE AND SWAN AND SWAN WHEN IT COMERS TO THAT OLD THING WE CALL RACISM.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Oct 20 2017 : 10:44AM
^You keep on singling out the industry as if it's acting in a vacuum. Let's say for the sake of argument that the industry is racist. That would mean that consumers are enabling its racism by choosing to keep IR profitable as a distinct genre. Again, are these IR fans racist? Why or why not? No producer, no agent, and no pornstar, is forcing fans to sustain IR. Do you not want to admit that because you are part of the problem?
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Oct 20 2017 : 10:52AM
IR fans regularly express their approval for what you believe to be industry racism. They express that approval in the only way that matters to the industry, and that's with their wallets. With their purchases, IR fans are actively preventing the IR genre from folding into b/g. Are IR fans racist?
Chill? LOL You have no idea about what's in the market here, that cannot be sold in the USA and therefore isn't available in the USA market But for example LegalPorno is a European company Compared to what's here Kink and similar sites are dull, basically vanilla
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Snowbunny Sorcerer Deactivated User
She's hot but not my type of stroke game, I don't play sword fights with that which mirrors me. 146 Posts 5/17
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Oct 21 2017 : 1:57PM
^Speaking of dodging, when will you stop dodging my questions about IR consumers? You believe that the IR system is racist, so I want to know if you believe that the IR fans who are sustaining that system and enabling/incentivizing what you call "racism" are themselves engaging in racism? Why won't you call out IR fans for their racially discriminatory purchases, since their spending keeps IR separate from the rest of b/g?
^^ Interracial porn as its own successful genre isn't really a thing in Europe, so you don't see many companies paying out extra for it, so you don't see many performers holding out in order to get paid extra for it. European porn is not "more chill" than American porn in basically any other factor except that one. As a matter of fact, if anything the European companies that are making explicitly making interracial porn (as in making sites or DVDs that are entirely interracial instead of randomly using black male performers) are doing so to cater to American audiences, not European ones. Edited by - whatsatelephonebill on 10/21/2017 2:09:21 PM
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Snowbunny Sorcerer Deactivated User
She's hot but not my type of stroke game, I don't play sword fights with that which mirrors me. 146 Posts 5/17
Posted - Oct 21 2017 : 6:11PM
No such thing as "IR consumers", you simply have consumers who like watching certain scenes, but they don't control the flow of movies produced or dictate whom the scenes will be include that's at the behest of the producers, and performers who co-operate. If every dodger refused to abide by the the racism system, then there simply wouldn't be a any dodging. Your imaginary "IR consumer" is a fallacy, a myth, you're begging the question when no one asked for an answer. Do you honestly think that "IR consumers" ONLY watch IR porn exclusively? Likewise is there such a thing as an "anal consumer!? A "lesbian consumer"? A "foot fetish consumer"? The problem with your assertion is that it in your head, not reality, black men are no more aggressive sexually than white men. White women that date/marry black men are not "looking for a thrill", "rebelling against their parents" or have a horrible relationship with their fathers. Black men who date/marry white women aren't looking for a "submissive" white woman, or "can't handle a strong black women", or "hate their mothers" or want a women to take care of them. These are all projections that we commonly here from white men/black women about IR relations between black men/white women. There seems to be too much overthinking when it pertains to black men/white women relations. People just don't want to accept that white women could be attracted black men.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Oct 21 2017 : 8:03PM
^Someone has to exclusively consume one particular product to be regarded as a consumer? I don't think you understand what a consumer is. Of course anal, g/g, etc. have a consumer base. It's incredible that you can be on a forum like Adult DVD Talk and imply that there is no anal consumer base, especially since you've spent time on Mike Adriano's thread. I don't know what your last paragraph has to do with the issue that you and I are discussing, which is the consumption of IR that sustains IR as distinct from b/g and incentivizes what you describe as the "racist" practices of agents/performers and producers.
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Snowbunny Sorcerer Deactivated User
She's hot but not my type of stroke game, I don't play sword fights with that which mirrors me. 146 Posts 5/17
Posted - Oct 21 2017 : 8:28PM
So if I only like and watch one particular IR scene and 99% of what I watch is white on white porn, you consider me an "IR consumer"? Your assertions are way too simplistic.
Dodging , nobody even asked if a girl would or wouldn't do IR , it didn't , and I stress with the PAST here, work like that , a BG scene could have been with whatever race including Arabs such as German Zenza Raggi or Black , either male and female a girl would find out who he was on set , many movies could have IR scenes among the white on white or even have a majority of IR scenes and yet not being labeled as such , no Rocco movie is labeled IR and yet you will find a number of IR scenes in his movies ,he is doing this since the nineties, way before the marked demanded it. When Valentina Nappi went to Budapest to meet him and telling him she wanted to do porn he paired her with Mike chapman and it was an anal scene , she said nothing , just prepared and performed , she didn't know she was going to work with a black man , she saw this on set . This was the regular way in Europe . when a girl didn't want to perform IR she would have told this to her agent end of story, same for anal and whatever she didn't want to do, no issues no drama, but it was very rare almost all Europeans didn't have any issue with that including white supremacists and even outright neonazists some of wich where outed for this Things changed when they traveled in the states and discovered two things , first they could have earned more if they waited to come to the States before doing their first and some even that they may face struggles to find work after that. So after a while IR become an issue here too, still a scarce minority but now it exists. Also we didn't even have an IR category before we have now, for marketing purposes , those looking for that wouldn't buy a product with different kinds of performances. Big Willy a British Black performer begun his own production line he used the expertise he gained working with Rocco in his early movies which was one of the first male talents to produce and direct his own movies being basically the only male starring in them . He did the same , his movies wre IR only , he was the only man starring in all his sceneshe went even further than Rocco who actually hired some male talents in his movies (Manuel Ferrara, Willy, Nacho Vidal , Kid Jamaica, Mike Chapman , Franco Roccaforte, Omar Galanti and many others). And yet his movies weren't labeled IR back then , I'm not even sure they are now, his production closed and he works for Harmony and Pink'o every now and then So yes thanks to the American market some issue traveled back here Oh I almost forgot Just a questin, what do you mean with "Europe" we're not all culturally related and we have very different stories and issues with foreigners and includes some Europeans as well Edited by - LCF on 10/22/2017 1:35:19 PM
Just out of curiosity...Are other genres marketed and labeled as such like they are in the US? For example are there specifically made and labeled BIG BUTT, BIG BOOB, ANAL, TEEN, MILF (MATURE), etc., etc... Also, do you think porn watchers in your country like or care that IR porn will be marketed and specifically made? Do you think there's an audience there that prefers or will seek out IR made material?
^ they are NOW , Big Butts were never a thing here, the genre still isn't , though teens and anal were , milf not so much ,as milf I mean, though Oma and Alt or Inzest (roughly Mature but older ,Inzest movies are German movies with older women with younger guys whio are usally teens or early twenty ) they're not produced all over Europe though , "Milfs and Cougars" were never labeled as such until recently, in the past they were just put along with teens in the same movie unless it was teen related . they're doing "incest" a while now, But Bandinelli explained on TV they begun to save money because a feature movie with a family related set up could be done in the very same porn-set for example a kitchen or a dining room even a modest one as a one's room poorly maintained. As for IR market there's now still not as big as in the states , but you have to remember a woman with a black man is not seen bad in a racial way if if she is it is because she's seen as a slut looking for big guns , a completely different mind set . We have our share of racism and I leave in western Europe , Eastern Europe well some of them embraced neonazism as a reaction against communism they were forced to live in , a Fascist governement would never allow the communists to seize power so in the view of some this is an insurance , in western Europe we had fascism and nazism , so many of us are lefties or even downright communists. Anyway those neonazis embraced the worse of fascism and nazism including the racists views, so in eastern Europe it could be way worse than it is in Western Europe Edited by - LCF on 10/23/2017 5:22:18 PM
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Snowbunny Sorcerer Deactivated User
She's hot but not my type of stroke game, I don't play sword fights with that which mirrors me. 146 Posts 5/17
Posted - Oct 24 2017 : 2:45PM
"Anal is a pretty extreme sex act. Some chicks are comfortable with it, and others aren't, but a chick who does everything under the sun then treats normal vaginal sex with a black dude as the same as double vag or whatever is pretty telling."
^ Anal is nothing extreme , it's just a sex act here , some do some don't , almost everybody at least try it , a good 80% of Europeans tried anal , I'd have to think hard to mention a European porn performer who doesn't do anal Edited by - LCF on 10/24/2017 4:10:41 PM
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Oct 25 2017 : 7:32PM
^Undoubtedly the boyfriend or husband is an issue in some cases, although no one's going to do a study to figure out how widespread of a problem that really is. I can think of a pornstar working right now who regularly shot IR, but once she began dating another performer (a male) she promptly stopped performing with black guys. Oh well. EDIT: I know for a fact that there are racist men who get off seeing their white girlfriends or wives have sex with black men. I only mention that because we shouldn't assume that guys who don't pressure their pornstar significant others to not shoot IR are automatically not racist. We don't know. We're talking about sex work and money being made, so there's obviously a practical incentive to accept your lover's choice to perform with black men. In most cases we can't make an informed guess, assuming we're even inclined to do so (I don't care about the offscreen lives of most performers). Edited by - misspornUSA on 10/25/2017 7:42:25 PM
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Snowbunny Sorcerer Deactivated User
She's hot but not my type of stroke game, I don't play sword fights with that which mirrors me. 146 Posts 5/17
Posted - Oct 30 2017 : 12:22PM
"Ironically enough, that dichotomy is tangible and does exist," offers three-time AVN Male Performer of the Year and Hall of Famer Lexington Steele. Prices for interracial fluctuate, and he's all too aware of it: "Half the time the rates do not reflect whether it's interracial or not, but the other half the time you are well aware your rates are being jockeyed. I'm a performer, director, producer, and distributor so I know I'm being jacked. So now I pay a $200 to $400 premium because I'm black?" says Steele. This would most likely be branded discriminatory in other industries, but not in porn." Lex, brilliantly shuts down the bullshit.
^ and who would her signifcant one be? (PM me if you don't want to put it on a public board,please)He says he'd like to pay less and this is brilliant? He basically just said he wants all the extra money a scene with him would get Remember he advertises some scenes on his movies "First time Lex" knowing he'll earn more with this but doesn't want to share any extra money with the female performer for that very brilliant indeed
^^^ and ^^^^ Thanks, I didn't know that Edited by - LCF on 11/1/2017 6:48:02 AM
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Snowbunny Sorcerer Deactivated User
She's hot but not my type of stroke game, I don't play sword fights with that which mirrors me. 146 Posts 5/17
Posted - Nov 1 2017 : 8:51AM
Lex has always been on point with racism in porn. He once said it made no sense for dodgers to avoid doing IR scenes because they wouldn't get 100% of the market. And he is right, it makes little sense to limit what potential earning there are. In the long run, doing a few scenes for a "big payout" gains less overall that being an full time IR whore. Edited by - Snowbunny Sorcerer on 11/1/2017 8:52:13 AM
^ Hey, look, it's the same thing I said in the fifth post of this thread almost 3 years ago. Anyway, that statement only makes sense if you're not already as booked as you want to be without "reaching 100% of the market".
guys guys just forget about the last decade pornstars, you should notice that we are living the golden age of ir porn, most of the new big names already did IR, The only true superstars that's still holding out are Jill Kassidy, samantha Rome, Blair Williams and Misha cross.
Madison Ivy. Wondering if her first will be with brazzers since she's a contract star.
In reality you knew nothing about the dire political trends in Europe, and you assumed that since European porn consumers apparently don't have a distinct interest in watching black men have sex with non-black women, then everything in Europe must just be hunky-dory. 
