I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Sep 11 2017 : 11:03AM
Like pornstar critics, you haven't made an argument for why IR alone needs to be socially progressive. Do non-IR scenarios in porn commonly reflect socially progressive values? Raceplay is just another roleplay, and if you're going to single it out you should explain why you're applying special rules to IR. Otherwise your argument will be inherently weak to anyone who doesn't already agree with you.
^ I'd also like to know why blacks calling women "white bitch" aren't a problem but the other way around is, even though it's the same roleplay a dominant man over a submissive woman that could be of either race. Also why a black woman cannot be submissive ? Remember a scene from Private "The Academy" it was Silvia Saint and another girl with Lexinton Steele , he was chained on a chair and Silvia had a slash in her han they become to suck him ,at one point Silvia anally impaled herself onto him in RC and said : you're my slave you must fuck my ass Edited by - LCF on 9/11/2017 5:14:03 PM
We all know that Alexis Texas is the worst IR dodger of all time, especially when it comes to her excuses why she didn't shoot one scene yet. -First it was, it "hurts" her brand which isn' true at all, look at sasha grey, anikka albrite. Tori black, Lisa ann and the list goes on -Then she said they way Interracial scene is shoot is degrading, which again isn't true, there are sites that don't shoot "degrading" ir scenes Everyone has their preference, but if she does anal, facial, Latinos and asians, then it just becomes clear she don't like it at all It's one thing to not like it and be upfront about it, but as soon as all those different reasons comes to light, it becomes flatout ridiculous
^^^^Is anyone arguing that IR needs to be socially progressive? As far as I can tell, posters are stating that hard raceplay reinforces harmful racial stereotypes and narratives. >>Like pornstar critics, you haven't made an argument for why IR alone needs to be socially progressive. Do non-IR scenarios in porn commonly reflect socially progressive values? Raceplay is just another roleplay, and if you're going to single it out you should explain why you're applying special rules to IR. Otherwise your argument will be inherently weak to anyone who doesn't already agree with you.<< To you, raceplay is just another roleplay. Perhaps someone else feels racism is one of the more destructive societal forces, either in general or to them personally. Or maybe they're just focusing on raceplay and racism because it's adjacent to the thread's topic.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Sep 12 2017 : 8:30PM
^Criticizing IR scenes for not being socially progressive in their depictions of blacks, whites, and interracial sex implies that IR scenes should be socially progressive. Race play is objectively a form of roleplay. Now, someone can argue that it is not just another form of roleplay, but pornstar-critics and Snowbunny Sorcerer haven't made that argument. Rather, they seem to take it for granted that race play is not just another form of roleplay.And? I myself feel that way. What of it?That doesn't explain or justify the choice of some pornstars to hold the depiction of interracial sex in porn to an exceptional moral standard. As for Snowbunny Sorcerer, our discussion began because he sides with those pornstars and won't explain why. The posts are all there on the previous page.
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Snowbunny Sorcerer Deactivated User
She's hot but not my type of stroke game, I don't play sword fights with that which mirrors me. 146 Posts 5/17
Posted - Sep 13 2017 : 4:37AM
"I would gain and I would lose- I would rather not gain than to lose any of my fans, thank u" - Rachel Roxx https://t.co/OA18AoJsA0 Racism.......people!!!
Those type of Pornstars are way to much concerned what fans think about them and use every excuse to avoid conflict, go the "easy" path Like they're afraid of a change in their career
^ Let's put some perspective here, the fans are those paying good money to watch her scenes any concern about them is legit , a porn performer is a worker she does what she does for money so her paying customers may have a say is the greatest part of her incomes come from feature dancing or camming or doing custom scenes why on Earth shouuld she put at risk her revenues for the potential gaining nobody can really assure her she'd make?
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Sep 13 2017 : 10:45AM
^^ and ^^^ In the past Rachel has used the "I'm not attracted" excuse, so I doubt that this is really about the fans. I doubt that either the attraction or fan excuses are her real reasons for not shooting IR, but I don't have an alternative explanation.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Sep 13 2017 : 11:23AM
Is there really much risk? What does precedent suggest? If Rachel is really aware of pornstars taking a hit in profitability after shooting IR as a result of shooting IR, she could have said so. Personally, I don't know who those pornstars are and I question their existence. Anyway, Rachel actually states that she would gain fans and she doesn't imply that the number of fans she would gain is less than the number of fans she would lose. I see it as just another strange and unlikely excuse from her.
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Snowbunny Sorcerer Deactivated User
She's hot but not my type of stroke game, I don't play sword fights with that which mirrors me. 146 Posts 5/17
Posted - Sep 13 2017 : 12:39PM
She basically agreed with a white supremacist fan that didn't want her doing IR. Why post a pic like this?? This proves nothing.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Sep 13 2017 : 12:47PM
^What Rachel wrote is not racist. She did not give a racist reason for choosing not to shoot IR. Compare her tweet to Bella Rose's deleted post. I didn't post that pic in my response to you.
^^ You mean a "like" placed by an automated bot? that agreement?I don't know but for some stars who work in certain areas it is an issue , the same issue why some productions did not shoot IR as explain by Lisa Ann in "After the Porn Ends 2" they sold a lot through cable TV and those won't buy IR, it didn't sell in there. With the free porntubes this may have changed because they get their porn in different ways, but still if you feature dance or maybe even escort , you may have to think about what you do unless you want to lose your bookings , so over a potential booking compared to a certain booking given the situation of porn these days I don't think she wants to take any risk Edited by - LCF on 9/13/2017 1:59:32 PM
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Sep 13 2017 : 2:11PM
I think that she can determine her level of risk based on precedent, but like I said, Rachel actually states that she would gain fans and she doesn't imply that the number of fans she would gain is less than the number of fans she would lose. Remember, this is only her newest excuse for not shooting IR. The bottom line is that she'd just rather not shoot IR (unless this is all just a ploy for a very large offer), and any silly excuse will do.
^ she said thisshe's not doing any math , she stated adamantly she'd rather not lose any of her fans, this implies she knows she would if she goes IR , she knows what she'd lose but not what she'd gain and she rather stays the way she is. this is what I get from that statement as for the names asked I wasn't talking about anyone in particular but it's been stated many times here about areas where you don't go feature if you did IR ,they'll desert your show Edited by - LCF on 9/13/2017 3:20:06 PM
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Sep 13 2017 : 3:58PM
^It seems to me that you're over-interpreting her tweet, and that you're doing so unnecessarily because you've chosen to ignore the fact that this is her second excuse for not shooting IR. You're taking what she's said too seriously imo. Anyone can state anything. I'd like names. Edited by - misspornUSA on 9/13/2017 4:00:28 PM
^ To put names I'd have to know where any given actress feature dance or escort and how much of both , the percentage of incomes related to those activities compared to porn , even who they are in real life and where they live , the issue might be there and let's not forget webcamming and custom flicks or the customers through clip4sale and so on. As I said the issue about sales has been addressed by Lisa Ann in After Porn Ends 2 available on Netflix , she said she couldn't do any IR while under contract because they sold mainly through cables and IR didn't sell through there, that was the issue every star under contract had to face
Sure, she's gonna lose her racist fans that dont like girls being ruined by interracial, but she doesnt post any real numbers. For all we know, she could have a net positive move by gaining more fans than losing a select few Either her highest paying clientele, her southern bible belt thumping family, or her herself is the reason she wont. And the only reason is because there is prejudice against interracial scenes/scenes with black guys
Yet there's hardcore male-dominating-female roleplaying and narratives in porn as well. Pretty much no one has a problem with that, so that is why we keep asking why should hard racial theme roleplay be a specially protected matter? Is it because historically women haven't been beaten battered and abused enough? When someone is killed in a relationship, 90% of the time, it's the husband killing the wife. And that's male-dominated violent dynamic that goes back thousands of years, probably tens of thousands of years at the minimum. But the fact remains, many women LOVE bondage themes and being physically dominated during sex and objectified and treated like a sexual slave/object - it doesn't mean they want to be really raped and really abused. Those that do seek such real abuse and life threatening or serious injuries need psychiatric help. The vast vast majority who like this stuff are just into it as a roleplay fantasy which is why people have safewords and as Maitresse from Kink says "consent is sacrosanct." As an adult and civil human being, you have to separate willing fantasies of consenting partners away from real victimization against a person's will. I think fundamentally some of you folks don't understand the concept of "play" when it comes to this. It doesn't mean you have to be down for that, but if you don't like it, don't act like it's some sort of unique sin. The vast majority of serious domestic violence that occurs is male on female, yet we all understand that all this male-dominating-female porn does NOT mean those producing or supporting it will tolerate real abuse against women or devaluing them as people. This isn't "what-aboutism." This is why can't you simply acknowledge what is understood by the vast majority of people when it comes to respecting someone's humanity without necessarily being into the same kinky sex fantasies they are into? What it really sounds like is some of you openly declaring a total lack of respect for people who are into a type of sexual kink just because it isn't your thing. That is what is really outrageous about this. No one is forcing anything on you. If you do not like it, then just ignore it. You don't have to disrespect and dehumanize people just because that's the kink they are into. I am way past weary of seeing independent and successful black people being condemned and shamed for empowering themselves simply by engaging in some provocative sex roleplay just like just about everyone else in this industry is allowed to do without being shamed and condemned and vilified for it on a personal level. DickDrainers in particular is a very unfair target, because to my eyes and ears, the raceplay is fairly even, or probably more favoring the black talent anyway. Yeah he lets them use the N-word but he can also call them nasty white bitch or cracker bitch and it's a 2 way street. Some may still object "But it's not perfectly equal." Nothing in this world is perfectly equal - Brother Khalid Muhammad was fond of saying this, and that dude was as black-power as anybody. Put the scale of cosmic justice aside. DickDrainers is plenty fair and it's all consenting and seems to have developed a good reputation. I see no sense in disrespecting the guy operating that.
While on the subject of race play. Are there any other sites that feature this other than dogfart and interracial pass even if it's just historical scenes like those sites. There's one scene which always features in those n-word compilation clips which looks like it should be on one of those 2 sites but I've never been able to find it. It's a brunette girl having sex with two black guys on a brown leather couch, one of the guys is Justin Long I think and the girl is just throwing the n-word about all over the place and not just the usual ndick/ncock stuff she's actually calling the guys the n-word. Can any raceplay fans help me out with this?
>>Yet there's hardcore male-dominating-female roleplaying and narratives in porn as well. Pretty much no one has a problem with that, Except I do have a problem with them; I said so in this very thread. This is why I'm not even going to bother reading your paragraphs of pontification.
You should better say you have nothing to say to people who do not share your views about what is racist and what is not or to put it simpler to those who disagree with you
That Justin Long scene sounds like it could have been Spring Thomas or Katie Thomas? Interestingly, Long left the industry with some righteous indignation and made his dissatisfaction with the industry well known. Most of his peers don't seem to agree though. And I have to just question if there weren't other factors that motivated his departure. I honestly think he intended to abandon porn anyway, and happened to view the fraught racial perceptions as a useful punctuation for that juncture in his life. It simply doesn't make a lot of sense to indict the industry as racist when by about the time Long left, it was beginning to get watered down a lot. Dogfart was shying away from the more explicit raceplay, Jake Steed had fled the country years before, and HushHush was winding down too. Ironically, Long left just as the industry was getting extra vanilla and tame and IR was entering a new era of whitewashing. When he left would have been the ideal time to invest in porn if your bag was more neutral and safe IR. But even during his time in the biz, if he didn't like how some brands produced IR, he could just be more selective. There were always brands that were more neutral. Jules Jordan was always classy. Justin Slayer made a killing with mostly neutral ethnic and IR. Same with LT. It's just perplexing how anyone could ever think the whole industry was any 1 type of way about this.
Definitely not Spring Thomas or Katie, I know them well but thanks for your suggestion. I don't think this scene is on dogfart or Hushpass, at least I've never been able to find it. Are there any other sites that do that type of hard raceplay scenes where I could look.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Sep 29 2017 : 5:55PM
^Back in the day there was Jake Steed Productions, JM Productions, Kick Ass, and even Devil's Films and WCP have old releases where the word popped up.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Oct 1 2017 : 10:36AM
^She's an interesting one. She's happy to do everything from rough anal to golden showers with guys who aren't black (or at least wouldn't be considered black in the US) for any studio that's interested, but she'll only consider shooting IR for "a proper ir company like blaked or darkx." Well, that's her choice, but it's an off putting double standard imho.
I kno we were trying to being PC these days but maybe Misha Cross is racist. Does all the degrading and rough stuff with whites but needs extra special high end treatment for IR. GTFO. She simply doesnt want to do it. THese girls dont want the racist label. It's ok if that's how she feels, doesn't hurt our feelings. I'd appreciate the honesty of simply saying you dont want to have black dudes. If these dodgers don't care about their black fans and care about their white ones, they shouldn't care about being labeled racist and any backlash they might receive in theory yet they still do. Very confusing!!
^ She does not consider those guys black. In fact on the legal porno forums someone once asked her that very question and her response was "Buahahahaha, does he really look like a black guy? When you add some milk to your dark coffee you've got latte, right?" ^^I don't think it is confusing at all. Michael Jordan has been credited with saying "Republican buy shoes/sneakers, too." Though there is some debate as to if he actually ever did, but the point is the same black guys buy porn too. Even racists care about their bottom line. So a racist might not particular like or care about black fans but they do care that black fans spend money. You also have to consider that there are white fans that are turned off by the idea of a girl being racist as well. Adriana Chechik got some backlash when she did the Howard Stern interview years ago and according to mimefreak she was just doing it just for show. MisspornUSA is correct that her willingness to engage in just about any kind of scene with any man as long as her is not black, but when she finally does a scene with a black guy it has to be done with a "proper ir company" is majorly off putting. Though the point is mute anyway because she is in Europe has clearly stated she won't shoot IR with a european company, and I don't see Blacked or DarkX going over there when there is plenty of talent here that they can shoot.
I share the same sentiments, at some point, it's not about preference or business strategy, some girls just do not hold interracial scenes on the same level as regular white on white scenes. Performers like Samantha Rone and Bonnie Rotten do constant gangbangs, double vag or double anal but could not give two damns about constantly pushing off interracial scenes. My holy trinity of the two Rachel's and Ms. Texas pissed me off to the point where I dont watch or buy anything with them in it. Rachel R. has been discussed about how she supports her prejudiced fans first. Rachel S. had the audacity to claim that shooting with Misty Stone was equivalent to Lex, the infamous "veggie IR" era. I also hated seeing her then appear in ads targeted towards the urban demographic. Same for Texas, I dont want to see her in hip hop videos knowing how she feels about it in her main line of work. I'm glad the companies geared toward black consumers like WCP and Evasive Angels stopped putting her in movies just because of her status On an aside, I'm starting to be real skeptical of girls like Megan Rain and Ava Addams. They shoot a few scenes once and then never return again to the interracial market. And in Ava's case, her whole thing seemed to be a big farce anyway, especially when she tried to jump into convos about ending discrimination towards black workers in the industry and she got called out by watchdogs and other performers who outed her for basically doing it for the money Mia Malkova is another one I dont like ever since she said she only wants "Will Smith style guys" aka the ones that dont look black, talk black, act black. Yet for however long it has been, she keeps posturing about shooting with Prince even though Ricky Johnson has emerged as a performer with her "preferred skin tone" I wish they would just tell the truth and be done with it, an honest person is always better to associate with than a deceitful one. But these girls probably see IR fans simply as dollar signs and do enough to keep them interested without actually delivering on their end
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Snowbunny Sorcerer Deactivated User
She's hot but not my type of stroke game, I don't play sword fights with that which mirrors me. 146 Posts 5/17
Posted - Oct 2 2017 : 4:01PM
You said every but the term racism.
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Snowbunny Sorcerer Deactivated User
She's hot but not my type of stroke game, I don't play sword fights with that which mirrors me. 146 Posts 5/17
Posted - Oct 2 2017 : 4:02PM
White denial mate, white denial.
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Snowbunny Sorcerer Deactivated User
She's hot but not my type of stroke game, I don't play sword fights with that which mirrors me. 146 Posts 5/17
Posted - Oct 2 2017 : 4:15PM
Damn, what a retort, polemic, combative and a complete and utter shut down of the bulshit. I like fact that you named names (although you didn't go far enough LOL).
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Oct 2 2017 : 5:46PM
Let's say a performer, we'll call her Cindy, waits to shoot IR for six years and then shoots lots and lots of IR. Should we assume that she was racist for the six years when she wasn't shooting IR? Perhaps it was always her plan to shoot IR eventually. Would she still be a racist in that case? Let's say that during the six years most of Cindy's lovers were black men. Should we consider her a racist anyway because she hadn't shot IR during that time? Furthermore, at what point should we say that she stopped being a racist? Was it when she asked her agent to finally book her first IR? When she arrived on set? When she filled out the paperwork? When she first had onscreen physical contact with her black costar? Maybe we should continue to believe that she is a racist since she waited to shoot IR in the first place. Or, should we consider the number of IR scenes she shoots to be the key. Can we safely conclude that Cindy isn't racist after her first 10 IR scenes, or 15, or 20? Perhaps it depends on the sex acts. Should we say that Cindy is still a racist until her first IR anal, DP, airtight? Maybe it best to wait until she does a few IR creampies to be sure, or is it best to deny that she's had a change of heart until she swallows a black man's cum? And speaking of sex acts, six years is a long time. Maybe Cindy performed in a lot of extreme scenes with non-blacks during that period. Is that evidence of her racism? If it is, does performing those same acts with black men nullify that, and if so, when? Does she have to equal the number in IR of extreme acts that she performed with non-blacks? Now, what if Cindy shoots numerous IR scenes over the next three years - gangbangs galore and even DAPs - then she suddenly stops shooting IR entirely. Is she racist again, or did she never stop being racist in the first place? During those three years Cindy has married a black man. Is that relevant to our speculation about whether she is a racist or not? After a year, Cindy begins shooting IR again. Was she racist for a year but then changed her mind? Was she racist all along? I am never going to conclude, even tentatively, that if a performer waits to shoot IR then she is a racist. Neither will I conclude that if a performer never shoots IR then she is a racist. Undoubtedly, there are performers who are waiting to shoot IR who are racist, just as there are performers who will never shoot IR who are racist. Additionally, I believe that there are pornstars who shoot IR and who nonetheless are racist. Thing is, I need something more to go on than what kind of scenes a person shoots if I'm going to call her a racist. We discussed a pornstar earlier who unintentionally outed herself as a racist bigot. She provided real evidence of her racism, and there was no need to guess or assume. For me, racism is too serious a label for me to assign to someone without clear evidence. Only when I see that evidence will I know that person is a racist, and only then will I be comfortable calling them such.
^ This. All of it, really. Being a racist is about a hell of a lot more than who you do and don't shoot scenes with.
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Snowbunny Sorcerer Deactivated User
She's hot but not my type of stroke game, I don't play sword fights with that which mirrors me. 146 Posts 5/17
Posted - Oct 3 2017 : 3:57AM
You wrote ALL this to say what exactly??? Point is, actively avioading working with bm is racist. People engage in racist acts without even knowing that it's racism at times, think of micro-agressions, white fragility and dog whistle politics. I'm not suggesting that these women who dodge bm are racist but the act alone is racist. I'm not acussing the likes of the two Rachel's or Alexis Texas of being a racist but certainly feel that have engaged In a racist act.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Oct 3 2017 : 11:10AM
whatsatelephonebill understood what I meant. If you are unwilling or incapable of understanding, that's not my problem. As for the rest of your comment, I'm glad that you don't believe that "the two Rachel's or Alexis Texas" and others "who dodge bm" are racists, and I agree with your second point. The rest of your comment might be more convincing if you were talking about performers who work exclusively or near-exclusively in Europe's porn industry. It's very different in the US industry, since here there is a specific consumer demand for IR that distinguishes it from b/g in general (is that consumer demand racist?). I don't think it's racist for agents or their talent to take note of that reality and use it to what they believe to be their advantage, so that's where our opinions diverge.
it's not that the individual themselves is racist, but the industry perpetuates embedded racism through the exploitation of "contrast". When I see consumers denigrate black male performers for not being dark enough, there is an issue. Is there any other profession where it is commonly accepted to refuse work or demand higher pay for working with a person of a specific skin tone? The consumer demand doesnt justify it either. This is similar to the NCAA, where because the fans spend millions, nearly billions watching "amateurs" perform a game, they keep the current model and do not allow players to be paid or transfer at will, or rule them ineligible for selling their own merchandise. And the practice hurts black males and females. Males arent allowed to be showcased on the same level as their white counterparts and females cannot capitalize on shooting with white males and no one will even budge on revitalizing the black-on-black market even it is solely for the sake of getting black talent more work and I also dont appreciate more physically demanding/damaging acts like anal and gangbangs being placed in a false equivalency with interracial because of the agents jacking up rates for their clients. Yeah the agent is supposed to get paid, but agent is implying to act like you are not interested in blacks so you can extort more money to finally shoot with one
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Oct 4 2017 : 2:21AM
Producers, etc. make money off of color contrast in the same way they make money off of every other physical attribute or combination of physical attributes that appeals to a consumer base. That should shock no one. Not only are we talking about a visual medium, but a visual medium that is all about sex. Of course what you look like, and what you look like relative to other talent, is going to be important to consumers. That doesn't mean that it's okay for consumers to denigrate the physical features of performers (and it is women, not black men, who get the brunt of it), but that's not a porn fan thing, that's a life thing. If you live in this world around other people, those people are going to judge and critique your physical appearance. The only way to escape that is to take up a solitary life as a hermit. Short of that, the most we can hope for is that critics won't be assholes.Why doesn't the consumer demand justify it?Really? It's not as if most non-black male talents have a consumer following either. Men are less valued overall in straight porn.People spend money on what they're interested in. Is that wrong?If black on black releases are profitable enough, you'll get more of them. People spend money on what they're interested in.It's about consumer demand, not physical demand, and the only implication is that the talent will wait to shoot IR. Edited by - misspornUSA on 10/4/2017 2:22:56 AM
Lesbian Superstars 5 - review by Captain Jack
Posted - Sep 11 2017 : 11:03AM
