Waiting to Shoot IR for a Bigger Pay Day (page 51)

Author	Post
Mass Facialties Deactivated User "Facialized Vol. 7" 2021 AVN Awards Winner: Best Oral Movie 9308 Posts 9/13	Posted - May 9 2017 : 11:51PM ^ "That a performer (or her agent) asks for more money in a situation in which she can get more money can simply mean that she wants to get paid as much as she can for her work. No deeper motive is necessary." Well now, that just makes too much sense. Quit being so rational. [Link]
whatsatelephonebill Senior Member 2935 Posts 10/11	Posted - May 10 2017 : 12:05AM ^ Rationality doesn't create 51 page topics, even though I wish it did. [Link]
Mass Facialties Deactivated User "Facialized Vol. 7" 2021 AVN Awards Winner: Best Oral Movie 9308 Posts 9/13	Posted - May 10 2017 : 12:20AM ^ Exactly, this thread just keeps going around and around. Every couple weeks there'll be some member that pops up, like Stall, and they "stir the pot" by making claims that so-and-so is racist and blah, blah, blah. [Link]
misspornUSA Senior Member I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13	Posted - May 10 2017 : 1:52AM Mass Facialties wrote: ^ "That a performer (or her agent) asks for more money in a situation in which she can get more money can simply mean that she wants to get paid as much as she can for her work. No deeper motive is necessary." Well now, that just makes too much sense. Quit being so rational. Click to expand . [Link]

Eco195 Deactivated User 126 Posts 2/12	Posted - May 10 2017 : 8:01AM misspornUSA wrote: Yes, some performers limit themselves. I am not concerned with what is done by the few, but by the many. Nothing I've read or heard from anyone in the industry leads me to conclude that it is the norm for performers to only shoot content that reflects their offscreen preferences in sexual partners or sex acts. Of course IR is not the exception. That a performer (or her agent) asks for more money in a situation in which she can get more money can simply mean that she wants to get paid as much as she can for her work. No deeper motive is necessary. Edited by - misspornUSA on 5/9/2017 9:35:06 PM Click to expand Once they reach a certain level of success and power in the industry it's actually pretty common for performers to limit themselves to working with people they like best and only doing scenes they prefer. The new women on the other hand don't have much say in who they work with. So if they tried to argue, "I prefer to only work with people I'm attracted to and if you want me to work with people I find unattractive then I want extra pay" it would go over like a lead balloon. And they'd find themselves with very little work. As for the "rationality" argument, it doesn't hold much water given that they're not asking for more money because they're being rational in a neutral sense. They're asking for more money because they don't really want to do the scenes and they realize this is one of the few ways in the industry they can get more money for a particular scene without any logical reason for it (i.e, it's not an extreme act like anal or dp and/or they're not famous yet). Moreover as far as we know there isn't a higher rate for additional scenes outside of the "1st". For if there was we would see a crush of women doing such scenes if they could make say $2500 or $3000 per scene. But in fact we see many girls doing firsts in this genre but a far lower percentage regularly doing such scenes. Also we have other performers who don't ask for more money and have made it publicly known. Because for them working with someone who's Black isn't difficult as they're not racially bigoted ergo they don't require extra money to get themselves to do it. [Link]
misspornUSA Senior Member I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13	Posted - May 10 2017 : 11:19AM ^If a pornstar wants to work regularly, they're not going be much more selective than their agent suggests. Dani Daniels, for example, is known to be very selective about what she shoots. The result is that she does not shoot as regularly as many other pornstars. Lengthy no-lists don't facilitate a lot of work, and porn is sex work, it's a job. Because porn is a job, and people show up with the expectation of getting paid, it's not shocking that many pornstars will ask for more money in situations in which they can do so. Why would they want more money? Well, why do they want money at all? We should take seriously the fact that porn is a job and not be surprised that money is at the center. [Link]
ghost88 Member 615 Posts 9/13	Posted - May 11 2017 : 12:41AM Bella rose said girls only do IR for the the money or they are used up/washed up. I don't doubt there aren't many girls in the industry such as bella rose who say they aren't into black men, but do it for the money as I pointed out. Go check out Bella Rose video. She really goes into detail about why girls do porn interracial in a youtube video. Part of the reason i'm not into holdouts is what she is saying in that video. She doesn't want do IR, I don't care. It is what it is. Edited by - ghost88 on 5/11/2017 12:42:11 AM [Link]
whatsatelephonebill Senior Member 2935 Posts 10/11	Posted - May 11 2017 : 1:13AM ^ She got roasted for that, by a fairly large amount of performers. Her story isn't everyone's story, it's her story, and people need to stop assuming that it is everyone's story. Also, Bella Rose is repped by LA Direct, which explains a lot. Edited by - whatsatelephonebill on 5/11/2017 1:24:25 AM [Link]
misspornUSA Senior Member I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13	Posted - May 11 2017 : 2:20AM ghost88 wrote: Bella rose said girls only do IR for the the money or they are used up/washed up. Click to expand If you're accurately characterizing what she she said, then what she said is a ridiculous generalization. I don't know who she is and I haven't heard of her video, but I'm interested to know why you place such a high value on her opinion. [Link]
whatsatelephonebill Senior Member 2935 Posts 10/11	Posted - May 11 2017 : 2:55AM ^ He's not mischaracterizing it. I kinda wish he was. Her twitter at the moment is interesting to say the least. Edit: Oh dear lord, there's a blog post about the backlash (since she deleted the post that everyone is/was talking about). Edited by - whatsatelephonebill on 5/11/2017 3:11:07 AM [Link]
fanofman Senior Member 2053 Posts 9/15	Posted - May 11 2017 : 3:12AM ^She tweeted that she wasn't attracted to dark skinned men. She claims to have no plans do IR. Who cares! Some of the exchange can be found at https://twitter.com/IvyLebellexxx/status/862178520214061056 and https://twitter.com/MissDollyLeigh/status/862354610081726464. Her youtube video can be found at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3JuKipOK1U&feature=share Edited by - fanofman on 5/11/2017 3:27:22 AM [Link]
whatsatelephonebill Senior Member 2935 Posts 10/11	Posted - May 11 2017 : 3:35AM ^ Not being attracted to black men and not wanting to do IR is fine. If that were all she said, this wouldn't be a big as it is. Where she crossed the line was saying that most women in porn are only shooting IR for the money, and that they only do it when they're used up and shot out from shooting plain b/g and/or anal or they need a lot of money really fast. Which isn't even true of the performers at her own agency, let alone in the industry in general. Which is why I made the comment about it being her story, and not one that should be generalized out to most or all performers. Edited by - whatsatelephonebill on 5/11/2017 3:37:10 AM [Link]
ghost88 Member 615 Posts 9/13	Posted - May 11 2017 : 4:08AM She had a blog about this which she deleted. She felt the need to make the video to rephrase what she said to make it a little more politically correct. misspornUSA - I don't place a high value on her opinion, it just making big news on twitter. A lot of pornstars tweeting about it. She had ruffled a lot feathers with her comments. [Link]
misspornUSA Senior Member I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13	Posted - May 11 2017 : 11:24AM ^ and ^^^ I've now watched the video. Looks like white supremacists are out in force to support Bella in the comments section. Anyway, she's only been in the industry since 2016 and spoke out of turn when she began to generalize about performers in general. [Link]

LCF All-Star Member Non Prevalebunt! 10364 Posts 1/05	Posted - May 11 2017 : 11:50AM I find this dicussion about "to like or not to like" kinda laughable , I mean do you really believe that all those eighteen years old star are actually attrtacted to middle aged men? Would you get outraged if a star would say I'm not attracted to older men , I rather work with men under 30 years of age? I would say very few of them hang out with men as old as their father or more in real life, Of course there are exception but generally speaking that is what they generally like for the most part. Is that really out of this world that some women don't like the most common physical features of black men? I don't for example , 80% or more of the black women I meet or see aren't this much attractive, I usually don't like fat asses or too thick legs , I prefer slim women with little tits and this goes with white fat assed women too , not to mention those BBW of whatever race they are. So if you are to ask me if I like black women I'd answer no I don't and yet there's a incredible number of black women that I like a lot or even prefer over most whites beginning from Ana Foxxx for example. Time ago I found a site with "real sistas" explored it but there was no woman of interest they were even beyond what I usually see around , unattractive doesn't even begin to describe them from my point of view. Of course there those who like them and are even willing to pay to watch them [Link]
misspornUSA Senior Member I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13	Posted - May 11 2017 : 12:25PM ^In Bella's video (I don't know what she wrote in her blog post), she said that she is not attracted to "very dark skin." She makes a specific distinction, unlike pornstars who just say "I'm not attracted to black men", as if there's no difference between D-Snoop and Lexington Steele. What's strange is that Bella doesn't seem to know that D-Snoop and other light skinned guys exist in the industry. [Link]
misspornUSA Senior Member I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13	Posted - May 11 2017 : 12:44PM whatsatelephonebill wrote: ^ He's not mischaracterizing it. I kinda wish he was. Her twitter at the moment is interesting to say the least. Edit: Oh dear lord, there's a blog post about the backlash (since she deleted the post that everyone is/was talking about). Edited by - whatsatelephonebill on 5/11/2017 3:11:07 AM Click to expand Looks like she's following the annoying trend of declaring one's opinion to be "the truth." [Link]
LCF All-Star Member Non Prevalebunt! 10364 Posts 1/05	Posted - May 11 2017 : 4:55PM ^^ I wasn't talking about Bella in particular but about the matter in general I also have to add that while "I'm not attracted to black men" create controversy and outrage declaring that " I only date black men" does not , which is strange because I assume that in both cases it's referred to some physical features typical of black men. If you assume and accept that someone may like something over something else, it is implied that the opposite could also be possible. Edited by - LCF on 5/11/2017 4:57:12 PM [Link]
misspornUSA Senior Member I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13	Posted - May 11 2017 : 5:13PM ^"I only date black men" doesn't imply "I will date any black man." "I'm not attracted to black men" does seem to imply "I'm not attracted to any black man." That is why greater specificity is especially helpful when making the latter statement, because it seems to express a great generalization. [Link]
LCF All-Star Member Non Prevalebunt! 10364 Posts 1/05	Posted - May 11 2017 : 5:22PM ^ "I only date black men" implies that the one talking likes some specific features does not imply a bit that she dates "any black man" the very same way "I don't like black men" or better yet "I don't date black men" does not imply that she would date any else who is not, also "I only date black men " implies that she doesn't date white men (or Asian or whatever) again without any specifity Also you don't usually have the time or the will to type a hundred pages of specifications, plus on places like twitter you just get to say few words , hence the many misunderstandings coming from there , unless the counterpart understands the limits of the mean and the necessity of concision and generalization Edited by - LCF on 5/11/2017 5:26:58 PM [Link]
misspornUSA Senior Member I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13	Posted - May 11 2017 : 5:43PM ^To me, "I only date black men" only implies that the speaker doesn't date men who aren't black. It does not imply to me that this person dates black men indiscriminately, while "I'm not attracted to black men" does indeed imply to me that the speaker is indiscriminately unattracted to blacks. No one needs a hundred pages of specifications. Bella Rose is herself an example of someone who provided a sensible distinction in her video, and I doubt that if what she said on that subject were transcribed it would fill a hundred pages. In fact, short statements are entirely possible: "I've never been attracted to a black man", "I'm not attracted to any black men in the industry", etc. Pornstars aren't under any moral obligation to make such distinctions, but they have to realize that when they don't they risking sounding racist. Even if they get specific they won't please everyone, since obviously a dark skinned fan's fantasy might be diluted if s/he watches Bella's video. But even in light of that, I still think it's best to avoid sounding racist if you're not racist. [Link]
Melvyn Senior Member 2797 Posts 12/12	Posted - May 11 2017 : 6:53PM I would hope after 50+ pages of this discussion, it would become clear to folks that as a litmus test for who's racist, "whether a performer does IR porn or not" fails, but failing even more as said litmus test is if a performer wants the most money she can get for it. It can seem suspect in some rare instances, but I'd wager at least 99% of the time the color that matters most is green. There's probably countless performers who are even partial to black guys, but they still want to make sure they get the most they can. This job is not about love to them. It should not have to be spelled out that a female performer may personally really be in to black guys, maybe even she dates them exclusively in her private life, but still this does not mean she must automatically be all about every random black guy in porn she's randomly scheduled to shoot with. I know there are some naive and impressionable young ladies who enter the biz and might make the mistake of falling for some guy (perhaps this was the case with Leah Gotti and Rob Piper), but most of them are probably not so helpless as to be easily attached to scene partners. They aren't falling in love with anyone on the set of Dogfart. It's not about love for most of them. It's just "fuck you, pay me." This practice of extra pay is not stopping until it's not worth the extra pay. Plain and simple. Platitudinous virtue signaling cannot arbitrarily drive down the value which tens or hundreds of thousands of consumers determine. What kind of racism is it when people appraise something involving a minority as having higher value? Racism is the exact opposite. It would be if studios refused to pay females as much for IR as they pay for vanilla. If Jules Jordan was saying "I will never pay you as much for an IR scene as I would pay you to for a vanilla scene" - THEN we would have a big problem, because that drives down the value of work with minority performers. It would incentivize females to avoid doing IR. The system as it is incentivizes them to DO IR. That's what makes this whole nontroversy so absurd. The system isn't discriminating against. It's discriminating in favor of more IR. [Link]
Melvyn Senior Member 2797 Posts 12/12	Posted - May 11 2017 : 7:30PM ^ I just posted that without having had the delight in listening to this young lady Bella's "diary" vlog. I'm about halfway through listening to it right now. It's sad when someone as young and inexperienced to the industry is harangued. She sounds a bit confused on a couple things, but she seems honest, and ultimately for her, it seems to be clear she's sincerely not attracted to darker color males. It is weird to me how she opens by declaring she doesn't do porn for money. That can't be right. Why does she have an agency then? What do they do for her? Book her for unpaid work? Anyway, a couple minor disputes aside, I think she acquits herself fairly, and this never should become a witch hunt in he first place. The unfortunate consequence is now it seems she feels backed into a corner against unfair accusations of bigotry, so she has to defend herself by accusing the industry of being racist. I just heard her say "porn is racist." Are you guys beginning to see why bandying about such loaded interrogations and levying such damning charges is unproductive? Remember, she is still young and probably can't see it yet, but by now we should all understand that indicting "porn" is tantamount to indicting all of us, we the consumers. Porn exists because of our interests, our patronage, our support. By deeming "porn is racist" it's a slam against consumers, particularly IR consumers. That's me and many of you. If she realized the inherent implication of that statement, I don't believe she would say it. I do not believe that is what she means. She has been harassed by unfair judgments, with poor rationality, and so it is unsurprising in her desperation that she may push back with similarly lacking rationality. I wasn't a fan of hers before. Had never even heard of her til now. And from the sounds of it, I probably never will claim to be a fan since she seems to have no intentions of doing IR (though to her credit, she points out repeatedly that this is not a set in stone policy). Also to her credit, she cites Blacked among the exceptions to the (still outdated and increasingly unsubstantiated) generalization of IR portrayed negatively in porn. So she at least has a slightly more complete perspective on the genre than the reductionist and dismissive assertions made in previous years by female performers who generalized more broadly about how offensive IR porn is. I also think this has to be great free publicity for Lansky and Blacked, who she mentions specifically. This could so easily be spun as "The racist white bitch who hates darkies still has to admit Blacked is some high quality porn!" lol [Link]
Melvyn Senior Member 2797 Posts 12/12	Posted - May 11 2017 : 7:36PM Just when we thought it was safe to enjoy IR again with increased standards in superbly produced and classy presentation: taken from the top comments under Bella's Youtube video. [Link]

Melvyn Senior Member 2797 Posts 12/12	Posted - May 11 2017 : 8:02PM So much projection going on in those comments. When you read shit that really tips their hands like "white genocide"... oh please. I have no problem with people freely associating and forming their own racial hugbox groups. But when they talk about genocide and "defiling" I have to dispute that bullshit. [Link]
whatsatelephonebill Senior Member 2935 Posts 10/11	Posted - May 11 2017 : 8:26PM ^^^ And I'll say it one more time, just for effect. Most people aren't calling her racist because she says she isn't attracted to "dark skinned men" (real talk: some people are, but those people are the ones that nearly call every performer that doesn't profess their love for black men racist). The reasonable people in the argument are calling her racist because she flat out said that the only reason you should (and most do) shoot with black men is because you have no other choice. Edited by - whatsatelephonebill on 5/11/2017 8:26:53 PM [Link]
Eco195 Deactivated User 126 Posts 2/12	Posted - May 11 2017 : 8:28PM whatsatelephonebill wrote: ^ Not being attracted to black men and not wanting to do IR is fine. If that were all she said, this wouldn't be a big as it is. Where she crossed the line was saying that most women in porn are only shooting IR for the money, and that they only do it when they're used up and shot out from shooting plain b/g and/or anal or they need a lot of money really fast. Which isn't even true of the performers at her own agency, let alone in the industry in general. Which is why I made the comment about it being her story, and not one that should be generalized out to most or all performers. Edited by - whatsatelephonebill on 5/11/2017 3:37:10 AM Click to expand Yeah she's getting hammered pretty hard on social media over those comments. Most girls though are savy enough to just not talk about why they don't do those scenes or they'll just lie and say they'll get around to it eventually and never do. The "Not attracted" justification went out maybe 5-7 years ago after it became socially unpopular to say. And apparently what really got her in trouble with lots of people in the industry was her inflammatory comment saying that the only girls who do these scenes are those who can't get work anymore or are desperate for money. That's actually never been true as you've always had non-bigoted girls who were fine with such scenes. And even now many of the girls who do scenes for Blacked etc...do so very early in their careers well before they're no longer as popular and eager to give their careers a jolt. Also it seems to me that she's attempting to rationalize her own career choice by assuming all the other girls in industry made the same choice for the same reasons she did which simply isn't borne out by the evidence. Edited by - Eco195 on 5/11/2017 10:31:48 PM [Link]
Melvyn Senior Member 2797 Posts 12/12	Posted - May 11 2017 : 10:02PM whatsatelephonebill wrote: ^^^ And I'll say it one more time, just for effect. Most people aren't calling her racist because she says she isn't attracted to "dark skinned men" (real talk: some people are, but those people are the ones that nearly call every performer that doesn't profess their love for black men racist). The reasonable people in the argument are calling her racist because she flat out said that the only reason you should (and most do) shoot with black men is because you have no other choice. Edited by - whatsatelephonebill on 5/11/2017 8:26:53 PM Click to expand That is not her argument. She is saying that, from her perspective, the industry is set up to reward holding out on IR for performers with the "business" approach. She's saying that if they reserve their IR debut for later in their career, it can help prolong their relevance. The logic of this is pretty much fool-proof. It's the concept of staggering out your unique selling prospects. Now, I do question just how long holding off is really worth it in most cases. I think if a female happens to have extra appeal with IR or black fans, she's doing herself a disservice by holding off for several years. She's leaving money on the table. I think particularly curvy females with big asses would be silly to hold off on IR. Yes, she could get a nice 5 grand extra bonus for her 1st IR, but by waiting 3 years or more, she could have easily earned 10 times that much money by catering to IR consumers. So instead of gaining 5 grand, I see it more like losing 45 grand. Overall I simply think it's just better to broaden their appeal and be more inclusive. In any case, I don't think it's fair to attack her as "Racist" as if she's just fabricating this logic of staggering unique selling points out of whole cloth. The logic is there, it's just more of the old paradigm stuff. This argument is the result of push coming to shove, and as far as I can tell, she didn't start the fight. I have very little doubt that the attacks began against her and then she pushed back by taking shots at how she perceives people exploiting the IR genre in the industry. I think both parties are wrong, but she didn't start just taking shots at people for the sake of picking fights. The people who attacked her initially because they simply cannot comprehend that some people are turned off by certain attributes are guiltier in my opinion. [Link]
Melvyn Senior Member 2797 Posts 12/12	Posted - May 11 2017 : 10:21PM Eco195 wrote: The "Not attracted" justification went out maybe 5-7 years ago after it became socially unpopular to say. Click to expand This is the problem right here. When was it ever socially popular to say you're not attracted to a demographic? As far back as I can remember that would be considered rude. The fucking problem is pressing people on the matter and forcing them to speak the truth which may be hurtful in order to allay fears of an even worse accusation. The typa motherfuckers who can't let it go are the absolute worst. Why is it so hard to accept that someone may not be attracted to you? There's countless black women out there who don't find white or asian men attractive. As far as they are concerned, those men don't even qualify as hypothetical sexual prospects. And that's perfectly fine! Nobody cares. Nobody is going to start grilling those black women who feel that way and threatening to crucify them in the public square. If you notice someone is only dating one type of person, and that type of person is not what you identify as, are you going to pick a fight with them? Do you really think that is going to help change anything? The sense of entitlement some people have is disgusting sometimes. Nobody has to fuck anyone to earn respect on an ethical level. Yet this seems to be the new litmus test imposed by entitled social justice warriors in 2017. They should be ashamed. She doesn't want to fuck dark guys. Get over it. You interrogate her and she has to spell it out that she's not attracted to dark skin, and now you're mad and hurt by the truth, which is something she cannot control. For fuck's sake! Not being attracted to dark skin =/= hating black people. SJW's love moving the goalposts to ensure perpetual victimhood status. Save that for the Oppression Olympics. These cats out here mad cuz some girl they never even heard of before today won't fuck everybody on the planet. [Link]
whatsatelephonebill Senior Member 2935 Posts 10/11	Posted - May 11 2017 : 10:56PM Melvyn wrote: whatsatelephonebill wrote: ^^^ And I'll say it one more time, just for effect. Most people aren't calling her racist because she says she isn't attracted to "dark skinned men" (real talk: some people are, but those people are the ones that nearly call every performer that doesn't profess their love for black men racist). The reasonable people in the argument are calling her racist because she flat out said that the only reason you should (and most do) shoot with black men is because you have no other choice. Edited by - whatsatelephonebill on 5/11/2017 8:26:53 PM Click to expand That is not her argument. She is saying that, from her perspective, the industry is set up to reward holding out on IR for performers with the "business" approach. She's saying that if they reserve their IR debut for later in their career, it can help prolong their relevance. The logic of this is pretty much fool-proof. It's the concept of staggering out your unique selling prospects. Now, I do question just how long holding off is really worth it in most cases. I think if a female happens to have extra appeal with IR or black fans, she's doing herself a disservice by holding off for several years. She's leaving money on the table. I think particularly curvy females with big asses would be silly to hold off on IR. Yes, she could get a nice 5 grand extra bonus for her 1st IR, but by waiting 3 years or more, she could have easily earned 10 times that much money by catering to IR consumers. So instead of gaining 5 grand, I see it more like losing 45 grand. Overall I simply think it's just better to broaden their appeal and be more inclusive. In any case, I don't think it's fair to attack her as "Racist" as if she's just fabricating this logic of staggering unique selling points out of whole cloth. The logic is there, it's just more of the old paradigm stuff. This argument is the result of push coming to shove, and as far as I can tell, she didn't start the fight. I have very little doubt that the attacks began against her and then she pushed back by taking shots at how she perceives people exploiting the IR genre in the industry. I think both parties are wrong, but she didn't start just taking shots at people for the sake of picking fights. The people who attacked her initially because they simply cannot comprehend that some people are turned off by certain attributes are guiltier in my opinion. Click to expand I'm going to show her words, as she said them. She's taken down the blog post, but other people did capture it: [Tweet is no longer available] Her words are saying that in any instance besides those two (desperate for money, used up/shot out from doing other scenes) it doesn't make sense. Ignoring the fact that you know that isn't true, and I know that isn't true, why would she think/say that? [Link]
Eco195 Deactivated User 126 Posts 2/12	Posted - May 12 2017 : 3:25AM Melvyn wrote: That is not her argument. She is saying that, from her perspective, the industry is set up to reward holding out on IR for performers with the "business" approach. She's saying that if they reserve their IR debut for later in their career, it can help prolong their relevance. The logic of this is pretty much fool-proof. It's the concept of staggering out your unique selling prospects. Now, I do question just how long holding off is really worth it in most cases. I think if a female happens to have extra appeal with IR or black fans, she's doing herself a disservice by holding off for several years. She's leaving money on the table. I think particularly curvy females with big asses would be silly to hold off on IR. Yes, she could get a nice 5 grand extra bonus for her 1st IR, but by waiting 3 years or more, she could have easily earned 10 times that much money by catering to IR consumers. So instead of gaining 5 grand, I see it more like losing 45 grand. Overall I simply think it's just better to broaden their appeal and be more inclusive. In any case, I don't think it's fair to attack her as "Racist" as if she's just fabricating this logic of staggering unique selling points out of whole cloth. The logic is there, it's just more of the old paradigm stuff. This argument is the result of push coming to shove, and as far as I can tell, she didn't start the fight. I have very little doubt that the attacks began against her and then she pushed back by taking shots at how she perceives people exploiting the IR genre in the industry. I think both parties are wrong, but she didn't start just taking shots at people for the sake of picking fights. The people who attacked her initially because they simply cannot comprehend that some people are turned off by certain attributes are guiltier in my opinion. Click to expand That's definitely illogical. The "stagger the type of scenes you do to keep your career going longer" doesn't hold up well to scrutiny. Girls are done in by the number of scenes they do in a given amount of time not the type of scenes the do. For example, if a girl did 2 anal scenes a year that would be far better than 10. Unless she wanted to be the star of that genre. Or if she did 5 b/g scenes a year instead of 40 that would stretch her career out more. And limit the possibility of over exposure. Furthermore, 10-15 years ago it made sense to stagger the genres one did because VHS/DVD's were king and the pace of careers was far slower. But now because the average career in porn lasts 6 months or so and more girls are entering the industry every month than they ever have, it's more difficult to keep the public's attention so it pays to have your "1st's" lined up inside of a 1-3 year period while your're still popular before a new batch of girls replace you and you get forgotten, which inevitably will happen. As for Bella, she did start the discussion by making a blog post about why she won't do the scenes. So while she didn't intend to pick a fight, she did. And she did so by saying she wasn't going do the scenes because she's not attracted to Blacks. Not something anyone really says out loud anymore for obvious reasons. But if she'd left it at that it would have garnered some criticism but not much. It became a firestorm of controversy though because she added that girls only do those scenes because they're "shot out," desperate for money, or at the end of their careers. Which is laughably false reasoning that went away about 10 years ago because it was quite wrong and also offensive in its implication. And the racism label definitely applies to her primarily due to her arguments which reveal her mindset, because: 1. She made it clear she doesn't like Blacks. 2. Her reasoning about why girls do those scenes is basically that they don't want to do them but only do so out of desperation for the 3 aforementioned reasons. 3. She also went on to make some argument about how IR itself is racist, including Blacked. Which is absurd given how non-offensive that site is, but also ridiculous given her own personal beliefs concerning her not wanting to do the scenes anyway. So it seems she can't wrap her mind around the fact that a lot of women simply don't share her bigoted beliefs and don't need to be pushed to work with Black guys. They do so because they want to . Edited by - Eco195 on 5/12/2017 3:26:07 AM [Link]
Quorrl Senior Member 2835 Posts 3/11	Posted - May 12 2017 : 7:07AM Melvyn wrote: Just when we thought it was safe to enjoy IR again with increased standards in superbly produced and classy presentation: taken from the top comments under Bella's Youtube video. Click to expand How does anyone care what people on 4chan and Reddit say & think? I mean there are lunatics in abundance. [Link]
LCF All-Star Member Non Prevalebunt! 10364 Posts 1/05	Posted - May 12 2017 : 9:09AM misspornUSA wrote: ^To me, "I only date black men" only implies that the speaker doesn't date men who aren't black. It does not imply to me that this person dates black men indiscriminately, while "I'm not attracted to black men" does indeed imply to me that the speaker is indiscriminately unattracted to blacks. No one needs a hundred pages of specifications. Bella Rose is herself an example of someone who provided a sensible distinction in her video, and I doubt that if what she said on that subject were transcribed it would fill a hundred pages. In fact, short statements are entirely possible: "I've never been attracted to a black man", "I'm not attracted to any black men in the industry", etc. Pornstars aren't under any moral obligation to make such distinctions, but they have to realize that when they don't they risking sounding racist. Even if they get specific they won't please everyone, since obviously a dark skinned fan's fantasy might be diluted if s/he watches Bella's video. But even in light of that, I still think it's best to avoid sounding racist if you're not racist. Click to expand Unless the first one means she's not attracted to black men but dates them nevertheless it is implied she's not attracted by anybody who is not black indiscriminately , it's an elegant way to say I'm not attracted to any white man or Asian man or whatever. the point I was trying to make is that if you say I only date white men you're authomatically tagged as racist whereas you can freely say you only date black men with no reaction [Link]
pat362 Senior Member 10083 Posts 3/10	Posted - May 12 2017 : 9:33AM ^I guess it's one of those subjects that has a double standard depending on which side of the equation you happen to be on like few people seem to have a problem when a 28 years old female teacher has sex with one of her teenage students but they grab their pitchfork and torch the moment the genders are reversed. After God knows how many back and forth on this thread over the years. I've come to the conclusion that it doesn't matter the opinion anyone has on the subject of interracial porn because it will always be the wrong one to anyone who has a different one than yours and it doesn't matter what arguments you bring forth. You aren't changing the mind of anyone. [Link]

misspornUSA Senior Member I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13	Posted - May 12 2017 : 11:01AM ^My opinion has changed because of what I've learned on this thread. [Link]
fanofman Senior Member 2053 Posts 9/15	Posted - May 12 2017 : 12:07PM Some additional Bella Rose tweets that were captured. [Tweet is no longer available] [Link]
misspornUSA Senior Member I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13	Posted - May 12 2017 : 12:18PM ^^^^Do pornstars even use "I only date white men" as an excuse? [Link]
whatsatelephonebill Senior Member 2935 Posts 10/11	Posted - May 12 2017 : 1:21PM pat362 wrote: ^I guess it's one of those subjects that has a double standard depending on which side of the equation you happen to be on like few people seem to have a problem when a 28 years old female teacher has sex with one of her teenage students but they grab their pitchfork and torch the moment the genders are reversed. After God knows how many back and forth on this thread over the years. I've come to the conclusion that it doesn't matter the opinion anyone has on the subject of interracial porn because it will always be the wrong one to anyone who has a different one than yours and it doesn't matter what arguments you bring forth. You aren't changing the mind of anyone. Click to expand Just because there are men on the internet who will say "nice" when a female teacher has sex with a teenage student, it doesn't mean that not many people have a problem with it. When found out, the woman still loses her job and generally faces criminal prosecution, just like the men who do it. [Link]
blkknight1 Member 707 Posts 10/09	Posted - May 12 2017 : 3:38PM @LCF Do you honestly think that a white woman in porn or in real life can openly and honestly proclaim that she only wants to date black men and there be no reaction. I not trying to start anything man you are wrong about that, a woman says she is not attracted to black guys and she is called racist, bitch, etc but a white woman say she is only attracted to black guys she is called race traitor, mudshark, n****r lover, coal burner. monkey lover, future single mother, and it goes on and on and on, matter of fact she does not even have to express the preference all she has to do in many cases is be associated with one. Just look at this fairly innocent tweet from Abby Cross a few months ago where she expressed she found the guy seated next to her attractive. https://twitter.com/AbbyCrossXXX/status/821954881778892800 All she did was say that she found the guy to be sexy and she had a couple of guys react negatively to that. Just last week here in the states down in Arkansas you had a Dad tell his daughter to never contact him again and what did she do she went to warrant that reaction she went to her prom with her close friend who happened to be black. A couple of months back you had a girl a high school student about to go off to college get totally cut off by her parents because her boyfriend is black. There is a anchor at ESPN by the name of Lindsay Czarniak she is married to and has kids with her husband who happens to be black and she does what people do now posts pics of her family her and you cant click one and not find some kind of disgusting comment about her her husband or her kids. Ashley Graham wrote in her book about how the first time she brought her now husband home to meet her family her grandmother refused to acknowledge him and how he had to put in the extra effort. It doesn't matter porn, everyday life, in movies, tv shows, hell even comic books there are still many out there that hate seeing a white woman with a black man. So to say that a woman can say that she is only attracted to black men and there be no reaction is totally false. In many cases a white woman can not even express an attraction to or have a friendship with a black man without catching some kind of heat. Not just from white men, but from angry black women as well. @Melvyn I did have a chance to view the blog post before she deleted it and I did not have a problem with her not doing IR, I knew of her previously and I saw what agency she signed with and right then in there it would be a long time before she ever did IR if she ever did it at all. When I read it the blog honestly was nothing profound or eye opening it was basically the same things that ever other girl in porn that is not doing IR has been saying over the past few year basically generalizing IR porn as for lack of a better word "trashy" and calling the industry racist for it practices and again no problem on my part because we have seen evidence to the contrary even well before Blacked came along. In fact if you look up Carter Cruise's blog post about IR it basically says the same exact thing she wrote. She got into trouble not with the so called SJW she got in trouble with her contemporaries when she talked about herself not doing IR because she only wanted to do scenes where she genuinely enjoyed them she was fine, but then she waded into calling most of the girl who are shooting IR disingenuous. I know this is not an apples to apple comparison but imagine if over the weekend someone you worked with was quitting on Monday and sent out a company wide email or made a post someplace basically saying most of the people hated the company or the boss and the only reason there because they have no other options. Would you be a little ticked if you did not feel that way that someone is speaking about something for you. That is what happened here the most vocal of her critics are not the SJWs as people are suggesting it is her fellow performers past and present they were the ones to bring up the word racist. you forgot to add who the first reply to top comment was and what she said Melvyn wrote: Just when we thought it was safe to enjoy IR again with increased standards in superbly produced and classy presentation: taken from the top comments under Bella's Youtube video. Click to expand It is kinda odd that she would be in total agreement with that seeing as in her original post she held that Blacked was actually the exception, she praised them as being classy. Now she agrees that their subscribers are all cucks, blacks, and guys who want to see a white girl defiled. Just one more thing about that response she agrees with, the line where the poster says that IR needs to incentivize white girls to do IR because its harder to get women to go against in-group preference, then I would ask her since she agrees with that line of thinking why is that not the case with non-white performers doing scenes with white men. After all those women would be drawn more towards men of their own group, would they not need to also be incentivized to perform with white males? Or how heterowomen doing GG scenes do they not need a greater incentive to do those scenes. What it boils down to is that she like other before her wrote a blog on a complex and controversial topic without actually bothering to go out and get informed about the topic first. Or maybe she and her agency just pulled one of the most brilliant mind fucks on us all remember she is repped by LA Direct who also rep Adriana Chechik who tried to drive up her IR asking price by trying to be controversial. Nothing drives up demand like controversy after all. [Link]
misspornUSA Senior Member I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13	Posted - May 12 2017 : 5:38PM ^Judging from that YouTube reply and what she initially vote, it seems that she takes a very low view of IR, to say the least. [Link]
Melvyn Senior Member 2797 Posts 12/12	Posted - May 12 2017 : 7:07PM whatsatelephonebill wrote: Melvyn wrote: whatsatelephonebill wrote: ^^^ And I'll say it one more time, just for effect. Most people aren't calling her racist because she says she isn't attracted to "dark skinned men" (real talk: some people are, but those people are the ones that nearly call every performer that doesn't profess their love for black men racist). The reasonable people in the argument are calling her racist because she flat out said that the only reason you should (and most do) shoot with black men is because you have no other choice. Edited by - whatsatelephonebill on 5/11/2017 8:26:53 PM Click to expand That is not her argument. She is saying that, from her perspective, the industry is set up to reward holding out on IR for performers with the "business" approach. She's saying that if they reserve their IR debut for later in their career, it can help prolong their relevance. The logic of this is pretty much fool-proof. It's the concept of staggering out your unique selling prospects. Now, I do question just how long holding off is really worth it in most cases. I think if a female happens to have extra appeal with IR or black fans, she's doing herself a disservice by holding off for several years. She's leaving money on the table. I think particularly curvy females with big asses would be silly to hold off on IR. Yes, she could get a nice 5 grand extra bonus for her 1st IR, but by waiting 3 years or more, she could have easily earned 10 times that much money by catering to IR consumers. So instead of gaining 5 grand, I see it more like losing 45 grand. Overall I simply think it's just better to broaden their appeal and be more inclusive. In any case, I don't think it's fair to attack her as "Racist" as if she's just fabricating this logic of staggering unique selling points out of whole cloth. The logic is there, it's just more of the old paradigm stuff. This argument is the result of push coming to shove, and as far as I can tell, she didn't start the fight. I have very little doubt that the attacks began against her and then she pushed back by taking shots at how she perceives people exploiting the IR genre in the industry. I think both parties are wrong, but she didn't start just taking shots at people for the sake of picking fights. The people who attacked her initially because they simply cannot comprehend that some people are turned off by certain attributes are guiltier in my opinion. Click to expand I'm going to show her words, as she said them. She's taken down the blog post, but other people did capture it: [Tweet is no longer available] Her words are saying that in any instance besides those two (desperate for money, used up/shot out from doing other scenes) it doesn't make sense. Ignoring the fact that you know that isn't true, and I know that isn't true, why would she think/say that? Click to expand Yes, she is saying that predicated on the notion that IR in porn is racist, an argument we've heard several times before which some people still hold on to. And this notion is made popular precisely by the type of unmerited indignation folks have over this very topic. So she's actually found purchase for her claims because of these specious accusations which judge the surface of the industry practice without examining the substance. And so what she adds actually sounds a lot like the same arguments those who attack "dodgers" use. It's funny because indignant critics are applying the same reductive logic to deem something "racist" and yet these arguments are now coming from polar ends. Some critics decry, "You won't do IR? What are you racist?" and these same critics also indict the porn industry as a whole as being racist for the practice of extra pay for IR debut exclusivity. She's just using the same "porn is racist" flawed reasoning as her critics. And ironically, even though I much prefer more IR participation and I find it disappointing someone would avoid IR, and despite being such a big IR fan myself, I still find myself defending her right to do what she prefers. I think both she and her critics are wrong in so casually labeling things racist, but she is absolutely right nobody should have to do anything in porn they aren't comfortable with. So I suggest instead of calling performers racist, and instead of taking cheap shots to indict the industry as racist, all of this nonsense could be avoided by chalking it up to preferences, different strokes for different folks. Nobody's life depends on this. It's a luxury commodity. Don't like what someone is into? Jog on. Bothered that someone might not be into something? Jog on. Nobody should be getting up in arms about this. She is off the mark about a couple things she says, but regarding the most important issue, she's in the right. But I think it is funny now that those people who were previously also condemning the industry as racist because of the IR bonus pay deal are now suddenly defending the industry against her similarly misguided charge of racism. They were so comfortable dishing out accusations and condemnation, but when it comes their way, suddenly it's unfair. It all comes back to what myself and many others have been recommending for years now: stop launching sanctimonious attacks without just cause. By and large, these performers aren't racist. The industry by and large is not racist. Once in a blue moon there's some truly outrageous shit happening or being said by some ignorant and hateful people. A few of these people are racist and deserve to be rebuked. It should be enough that we live in a world where there is already plenty of examples of racist shit being said on the internet that we don't have to bring out pitchforks at the mere suspicion someone might not be into IR porn. I hope people learn from this how silly it is to attack each other especially without having even the slightest familiarity with the other. [Link]
Melvyn Senior Member 2797 Posts 12/12	Posted - May 12 2017 : 7:23PM Quorrl wrote: Melvyn wrote: Just when we thought it was safe to enjoy IR again with increased standards in superbly produced and classy presentation: taken from the top comments under Bella's Youtube video. Click to expand How does anyone care what people on 4chan and Reddit say & think? I mean there are lunatics in abundance. Click to expand You would be surprised how influential those people are. Yes, their ranks are rife with swine, but I also think they have some of the tech savviest, philosophically wisest, and I dare say noblest denizens of the whole internet among them. It would be very perilous to try and paint all of them with the same brush. And believe me, I know of their villainous subsect element firsthand all too well. To them, I'm a cuck, a zionist, a blight on the white race, or a fag, which is hilarious because I am none of these. But again, that's just a vocal subsect, and oftentimes the loudest group is just an ineffectual rabble. The biggest threat they pose is to their own constituency as their ignorant and savage tactics more often than not undermine their own purported goals. I don't believe they represent at all the greater body of 4chan or Reddit and the like. They are simply tolerated because of very lax decorum standards in those domains. Never let the trolls fool you into overestimating them. They only have what power you give them. Meanwhile, most of the people who populate those forums lean toward chaotic good. [Link]
chessmaster Member 768 Posts 6/12	Posted - May 12 2017 : 7:31PM blkknight1 wrote: Just look at this fairly innocent tweet from Abby Cross a few months ago where she expressed she found the guy seated next to her attractive. https://twitter.com/AbbyCrossXXX/status/821954881778892800 Click to expand well now I couldn't care less about Bella rose(didnt care before as I didn't know who she was either). now I only care about when Abby cross is coming to the dark side. [Link]
misspornUSA Senior Member I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13	Posted - May 12 2017 : 7:33PM ^^I've spent very little time on Reddit over the years but I have read some great discussions on there. Edited by - misspornUSA on 5/12/2017 7:35:55 PM [Link]
misspornUSA Senior Member I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13	Posted - May 12 2017 : 7:35PM ^^ [Link]
Melvyn Senior Member 2797 Posts 12/12	Posted - May 12 2017 : 7:46PM misspornUSA wrote: ^Judging from that YouTube reply and what she initially vote, it seems that she takes a very low view of IR, to say the least. Click to expand Yes, and again, it shows how misguided she is. I think by this point she is looking for some kind of narrative to help defend herself. But was that sincerely how she felt before she was attacked? I have doubts. This is why you shouldn't go picking fights without cause. Her not wanting to do IR porn simply because she doesn't find dark skin attractive was fine, but she was told that's not good enough. IT IS GOOD ENOUGH. But when people dogpile and harass and harangue, I think it's inevitable she looks to some narrative, however tenuously formulated, to lean on in her defense. Which thoughts do you all think came to her mind first: her biologically dictated physical desires, and her realizing her own sexuality, and possibly consciously thinking about what she's into and what she's not OR narratives about why these phenomenon must be socially deconstructed and analyzed ? I don't think anybody could honestly believe the latter precipitates the former. Rather, it's the sociological psycho babble bullshit that stems from the biological impulses. There must have been a point where she was an innocent average chick, not throwing stones at anyone, just exploring her sexuality and tastes as she preferred. Then the outrage brigade finds fault and tells her how hateful she is. It's projection 101. It is pathetic and shameful. Stop witch hunting. There's enough real monsters out there. And look at what happens when you go hunting for witches. You actually drive her into the arms of madmen like that 4chan Cyclops. This is the mirror of the overbearing and racist father warning her daughter to never associate with black thugs, lecturing her about how they're bad, yet inadvertently planting the seeds of desire in her mind to go get "blacked." Instead we have uppity SJW's croning about how you are to be ashamed of your natural preferences, telling a young woman she's the worst type of bigot around simply because of her biological preferences - as if she can control that! This is Puritanical. And tragically, because of her questionable co-signing of that Cyclops's comment, I have no doubt The Inquisition will continue! [Link]
misspornUSA Senior Member I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13	Posted - May 12 2017 : 8:13PM Melvyn wrote: misspornUSA wrote: ^Judging from that YouTube reply and what she initially vote, it seems that she takes a very low view of IR, to say the least. Click to expand Yes, and again, it shows how misguided she is. I think by this point she is looking for some kind of narrative to help defend herself. But was that sincerely how she felt before she was attacked? I have doubts. Click to expand The excerpt from her now deleted blog post already suggests a low view of IR. That excerpt is what was circulated on Twitter and what seems to have generated a lot of the blowback, and I think that it led to more people calling her out on the "attraction" issue than would have done so otherwise. In other words, they're interpreting the rest of what she said through the filter of that excerpt. IR watchdogs are one thing, but the criticism she's receiving appears to be much more widespread than that. From what I can tell that's due to the blog excerpt and was only compounded by what she had to say about dark skin. Her lack of attraction to dark skin doesn't seem to me to really be the focus of the controversy at all. [Link]
NomnoMnOm Member 379 Posts 5/15	Posted - May 13 2017 : 12:19AM In her original blog, she said she has never found a dark skinned person attractive and that she will not work with someone she isn't attracted to, because she wants her scenes to be real and genuine. That's totally cool. She fucked up when she implied MOST other performers also share her lack of attraction and ONLY shoot IR scenes when they are desperate for cash and/or used up and shot out, basically implying MOST performers' IR scenes aren't real and genuine. She also fucked up when she said IR scenes are USUALLY more degrading than other scenes. Tell that to Jules, Mime, Mason and a whole host of others that've put in a lot of time to give us quality IR scenes. It would have been just fine if she had just spoken for herself and not lump in others. In her follow-up blog, she said her agent at La Direct agreed thatshe wrote the truth, so apparently he thinks this way too, according to her. Link to her original blog [Link]
blkknight1 Member 707 Posts 10/09	Posted - May 13 2017 : 12:51AM Here is the full text of what she wrote word for word IT IS OKAY THAT I DON探 WANT TO DO IR! LET ME TELL YOU WHY! IT IS OKAY THAT I DON’T WANT TO DO IR! LET ME TELL YOU WHY! Are you attracted to girls with big boobs? Saggy boobs? Are you attracted to female or male? What about blonde or brown hair? Blue eyes or brown eyes? I am not racist at all! I do not think someone is less of a person because of their skin color! I personally just am not attracted to dark skinned individuals! I do not get horny over them! Just like some dark skinned individuals aren’t attracted to light skinned individuals. That does not mean that I wouldn’t be BFFS with someone of a different Race. I am also not saying that I could NEVER EVER in 1000 years find someone attractive that is a different race but so far that has not been the case for me! Yes, this is porn and its for show! I am not one of those girls who are going to do this and that just for my fans but make myself miserable with not being attracted. You guys want to see good content right? You want to watch something that seems as real as it would be with you? Maybe its a fantasy, maybe its not! For myself I want to be the girl who seems real and genuine, so… I only want to put out product that is REAL AND GENUINE. Most girls do IR for the money in porn! Which makes porn racist, not the girl! The fact that people see it as such a risqué act makes it different then just regular what they call B/G. So.. from a business stand point doing IR makes sense if you A) want to make a lot more money real fast cause you have rent due and you need to pay it asap. or B) You are in a place in your porn career where the fans have been waiting forever, and you are all used up from b/g or anal! This is another reason that I do not want to do interracial Business wise. I feel it is RACIST to actually to IR in porn because of the fact that it pays more than regular b/g, that people look at it differently, that the scenes USUALLY are more degrading and dirty! That is most certainly fine for some ladies and gentlemen. That just is not for me! Sorry! I am not talking about BLACKED, some companies are very elegant and that is great! I am glad they bring that to the table. I understand this will stir the pot! I am sure I will get a lot of different feedback from this! I am aware and prepared! I just wanted to answer the millions of comments and questions a day about my opinion on IR, and the question of when I’m going to do IR. Things do change peoples minds and maybe one day I would find that one guy that changes everything but at this moment this is how I feel! I do not believe this is being racist! If this is being racist then I guess you are homophobic for not having sex with a male when you are a male! WHY WON’T YOU DO BOY ON BOY ANAL? Oh yea.. because you aren’t attracted to males! We are not all attracted to the same thing and that is okay isn’t it? Thats it for now… Don’t kill me. Bye! Bella Elise Rose As you can see misspornusa is right her opinion of IR is not that high, she seems to look down on those that choose to do IR with her post. She says she want to be real and genuine in her scenes and immediately after say most girls do IR for the money which would imply that she does not see them as being real or genuine. And that doing IR makes sense when you are broke or used up. This is what Lilly Ford, Dolly Leigh, Alana Evans, Katja Kassin took issue with She points out that the scenes are usually degrading and dirty and she singles out Blacked as the lone exception. The fact that she says that its something to be done when you are all used up would point to her not thinking too much of it. Alana a long time vet of porn tried to offer some advice to and went so far as to try and explain why saying that was offensive to her fellow performers, but she was not having it. What does she do instead writes another blog and talks about how the girls who came after her are the ones that don't work much anymore and calling them bullies and again Alana tried to engage her one pornstar to another with no kind of malice and she got blocked for the effort. Misspornusa is also right when she talks about how the whole attraction issue being secondary. Those initial excerpt made no mention of dark skin or being attracted only if you had read that before she deleted it would you have known. In fact it was not until she made that youtube video that anyone actually started taking issue with what she said about attraction and it was mainly her supporters that turned this into an attraction issue when they used it to defend her, largely ignoring what caused the dust up in the first place which was what she said about performers who do IR and under what circumstances they do it. [Link]
NomnoMnOm Member 379 Posts 5/15	Posted - May 13 2017 : 1:51AM She clarifies herself on what she intended to convey [Link]

Author

Post

Mass Facialties
Deactivated User

"Facialized Vol. 7" 2021 AVN Awards Winner: Best Oral Movie
9308 Posts
9/13

Posted - May 9 2017 : 11:51PM

^
"That a performer (or her agent) asks for more money in a situation in which she can get more money can simply mean that she wants to get paid as much as she can for her work. No deeper motive is necessary."
Well now, that just makes too much sense. Quit being so rational.

[Link]

whatsatelephonebill
Senior Member

2935 Posts
10/11

Posted - May 10 2017 : 12:05AM

^
Rationality doesn't create 51 page topics, even though I wish it did.

[Link]

Mass Facialties
Deactivated User

"Facialized Vol. 7" 2021 AVN Awards Winner: Best Oral Movie
9308 Posts
9/13

Posted - May 10 2017 : 12:20AM

^
Exactly, this thread just keeps going around and around. Every couple weeks there'll be some member that pops up, like Stall, and they "stir the pot" by making claims that so-and-so is racist and blah, blah, blah.

[Link]

misspornUSA
Senior Member

I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine).
8737 Posts
11/13

Posted - May 10 2017 : 1:52AM

[Link]

Eco195
Deactivated User

126 Posts
2/12

Posted - May 10 2017 : 8:01AM

Once they reach a certain level of success and power in the industry it's actually pretty common for performers to limit themselves to working with people they like best and only doing scenes they prefer.
The new women on the other hand don't have much say in who they work with.
So if they tried to argue, "I prefer to only work with people I'm attracted to and if you want me to work with people I find unattractive then I want extra pay" it would go over like a lead balloon. And they'd find themselves with very little work.
As for the "rationality" argument, it doesn't hold much water given that they're not asking for more money because they're being rational in a neutral sense.
They're asking for more money because they don't really want to do the scenes and they realize this is one of the few ways in the industry they can get more money for a particular scene without any logical reason for it (i.e, it's not an extreme act like anal or dp and/or they're not famous yet).
Moreover as far as we know there isn't a higher rate for additional scenes outside of the "1st". For if there was we would see a crush of women doing such scenes if they could make say $2500 or $3000 per scene. But in fact we see many girls doing firsts in this genre but a far lower percentage regularly doing such scenes.
Also we have other performers who don't ask for more money and have made it publicly known. Because for them working with someone who's Black isn't difficult as they're not racially bigoted ergo they don't require extra money to get themselves to do it.

[Link]

misspornUSA
Senior Member

I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine).
8737 Posts
11/13

Posted - May 10 2017 : 11:19AM

^If a pornstar wants to work regularly, they're not going be much more selective than their agent suggests. Dani Daniels, for example, is known to be very selective about what she shoots. The result is that she does not shoot as regularly as many other pornstars. Lengthy no-lists don't facilitate a lot of work, and porn is sex work, it's a job. Because porn is a job, and people show up with the expectation of getting paid, it's not shocking that many pornstars will ask for more money in situations in which they can do so. Why would they want more money? Well, why do they want money at all? We should take seriously the fact that porn is a job and not be surprised that money is at the center.

[Link]

ghost88
Member

615 Posts
9/13

Posted - May 11 2017 : 12:41AM

Bella rose said girls only do IR for the the money or they are used up/washed up. I don't doubt there aren't many girls in the industry such as bella rose who say they aren't into black men, but do it for the money as I pointed out. Go check out Bella Rose video. She really goes into detail about why girls do porn interracial in a youtube video. Part of the reason i'm not into holdouts is what she is saying in that video. She doesn't want do IR, I don't care. It is what it is.
Edited by - ghost88 on 5/11/2017 12:42:11 AM

[Link]

whatsatelephonebill
Senior Member

2935 Posts
10/11

Posted - May 11 2017 : 1:13AM

^
She got roasted for that, by a fairly large amount of performers. Her story isn't everyone's story, it's her story, and people need to stop assuming that it is everyone's story.
Also, Bella Rose is repped by LA Direct, which explains a lot.
Edited by - whatsatelephonebill on 5/11/2017 1:24:25 AM

[Link]

misspornUSA
Senior Member

I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine).
8737 Posts
11/13

Posted - May 11 2017 : 2:20AM

If you're accurately characterizing what she she said, then what she said is a ridiculous generalization. I don't know who she is and I haven't heard of her video, but I'm interested to know why you place such a high value on her opinion.

[Link]

whatsatelephonebill
Senior Member

2935 Posts
10/11

Posted - May 11 2017 : 2:55AM

^
He's not mischaracterizing it. I kinda wish he was. Her twitter at the moment is interesting to say the least.
Edit: Oh dear lord, there's a blog post about the backlash (since she deleted the post that everyone is/was talking about).
Edited by - whatsatelephonebill on 5/11/2017 3:11:07 AM

[Link]

fanofman
Senior Member

2053 Posts
9/15

Posted - May 11 2017 : 3:12AM

^She tweeted that she wasn't attracted to dark skinned men. She claims to have no plans do IR. Who cares! Some of the exchange can be found at https://twitter.com/IvyLebellexxx/status/862178520214061056 and https://twitter.com/MissDollyLeigh/status/862354610081726464. Her youtube video can be found at
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3JuKipOK1U&feature=share

Edited by - fanofman on 5/11/2017 3:27:22 AM

[Link]

whatsatelephonebill
Senior Member

2935 Posts
10/11

Posted - May 11 2017 : 3:35AM

^
Not being attracted to black men and not wanting to do IR is fine. If that were all she said, this wouldn't be a big as it is. Where she crossed the line was saying that most women in porn are only shooting IR for the money, and that they only do it when they're used up and shot out from shooting plain b/g and/or anal or they need a lot of money really fast. Which isn't even true of the performers at her own agency, let alone in the industry in general. Which is why I made the comment about it being her story, and not one that should be generalized out to most or all performers.
Edited by - whatsatelephonebill on 5/11/2017 3:37:10 AM

[Link]

ghost88
Member

615 Posts
9/13

Posted - May 11 2017 : 4:08AM

She had a blog about this which she deleted. She felt the need to make the video to rephrase what she said to make it a little more politically correct. misspornUSA - I don't place a high value on her opinion, it just making big news on twitter. A lot of pornstars tweeting about it. She had ruffled a lot feathers with her comments.

[Link]

misspornUSA
Senior Member

I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine).
8737 Posts
11/13

Posted - May 11 2017 : 11:24AM

^ and ^^^ I've now watched the video. Looks like white supremacists are out in force to support Bella in the comments section. Anyway, she's only been in the industry since 2016 and spoke out of turn when she began to generalize about performers in general.

[Link]

LCF

All-Star Member

Non Prevalebunt!
10364 Posts
1/05

Posted - May 11 2017 : 11:50AM

I find this dicussion about "to like or not to like" kinda laughable , I mean do you really believe that all those eighteen years old star are actually attrtacted to middle aged men?
Would you get outraged if a star would say I'm not attracted to older men , I rather work with men under 30 years of age?
I would say very few of them hang out with men as old as their father or more in real life, Of course there are exception but generally speaking that is what they generally like for the most part.
Is that really out of this world that some women don't like the most common physical features of black men?
I don't for example , 80% or more of the black women I meet or see aren't this much attractive, I usually don't like fat asses or too thick legs , I prefer slim women with little tits and this goes with white fat assed women too , not to mention those BBW of whatever race they are.
So if you are to ask me if I like black women I'd answer no I don't and yet there's a incredible number of black women that I like a lot or even prefer over most whites beginning from Ana Foxxx for example.
Time ago I found a site with "real sistas" explored it but there was no woman of interest they were even beyond what I usually see around , unattractive doesn't even begin to describe them from my point of view.
Of course there those who like them and are even willing to pay to watch them

[Link]

misspornUSA
Senior Member

I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine).
8737 Posts
11/13

Posted - May 11 2017 : 12:25PM

^In Bella's video (I don't know what she wrote in her blog post), she said that she is not attracted to "very dark skin." She makes a specific distinction, unlike pornstars who just say "I'm not attracted to black men", as if there's no difference between D-Snoop and Lexington Steele. What's strange is that Bella doesn't seem to know that D-Snoop and other light skinned guys exist in the industry.

[Link]

misspornUSA
Senior Member

I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine).
8737 Posts
11/13

Posted - May 11 2017 : 12:44PM

Looks like she's following the annoying trend of declaring one's opinion to be "the truth."

[Link]

LCF

All-Star Member

Non Prevalebunt!
10364 Posts
1/05

Posted - May 11 2017 : 4:55PM

^^
I wasn't talking about Bella in particular but about the matter in general
I also have to add that while "I'm not attracted to black men" create controversy and outrage declaring that " I only date black men" does not , which is strange because I assume that in both cases it's referred to some physical features typical of black men. If you assume and accept that someone may like something over something else, it is implied that the opposite could also be possible.

Edited by - LCF on 5/11/2017 4:57:12 PM

[Link]

misspornUSA
Senior Member

I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine).
8737 Posts
11/13

Posted - May 11 2017 : 5:13PM

^"I only date black men" doesn't imply "I will date any black man." "I'm not attracted to black men" does seem to imply "I'm not attracted to any black man." That is why greater specificity is especially helpful when making the latter statement, because it seems to express a great generalization.

[Link]

LCF

All-Star Member

Non Prevalebunt!
10364 Posts
1/05

Posted - May 11 2017 : 5:22PM

^
"I only date black men" implies that the one talking likes some specific features does not imply a bit that she dates "any black man" the very same way "I don't like black men" or better yet "I don't date black men" does not imply that she would date any else who is not, also "I only date black men " implies that she doesn't date white men (or Asian or whatever) again without any specifity
Also you don't usually have the time or the will to type a hundred pages of specifications, plus on places like twitter you just get to say few words , hence the many misunderstandings coming from there , unless the counterpart understands the limits of the mean and the necessity of concision and generalization

Edited by - LCF on 5/11/2017 5:26:58 PM

[Link]

misspornUSA
Senior Member

I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine).
8737 Posts
11/13

Posted - May 11 2017 : 5:43PM

^To me, "I only date black men" only implies that the speaker doesn't date men who aren't black. It does not imply to me that this person dates black men indiscriminately, while "I'm not attracted to black men" does indeed imply to me that the speaker is indiscriminately unattracted to blacks.
No one needs a hundred pages of specifications. Bella Rose is herself an example of someone who provided a sensible distinction in her video, and I doubt that if what she said on that subject were transcribed it would fill a hundred pages. In fact, short statements are entirely possible: "I've never been attracted to a black man", "I'm not attracted to any black men in the industry", etc. Pornstars aren't under any moral obligation to make such distinctions, but they have to realize that when they don't they risking sounding racist. Even if they get specific they won't please everyone, since obviously a dark skinned fan's fantasy might be diluted if s/he watches Bella's video. But even in light of that, I still think it's best to avoid sounding racist if you're not racist.

[Link]

Melvyn
Senior Member

2797 Posts
12/12

Posted - May 11 2017 : 6:53PM

I would hope after 50+ pages of this discussion, it would become clear to folks that as a litmus test for who's racist, "whether a performer does IR porn or not" fails, but failing even more as said litmus test is if a performer wants the most money she can get for it.
It can seem suspect in some rare instances, but I'd wager at least 99% of the time the color that matters most is green. There's probably countless performers who are even partial to black guys, but they still want to make sure they get the most they can. This job is not about love to them.
It should not have to be spelled out that a female performer may personally really be in to black guys, maybe even she dates them exclusively in her private life, but still this does not mean she must automatically be all about every random black guy in porn she's randomly scheduled to shoot with. I know there are some naive and impressionable young ladies who enter the biz and might make the mistake of falling for some guy (perhaps this was the case with Leah Gotti and Rob Piper), but most of them are probably not so helpless as to be easily attached to scene partners. They aren't falling in love with anyone on the set of Dogfart. It's not about love for most of them. It's just "fuck you, pay me."
This practice of extra pay is not stopping until it's not worth the extra pay. Plain and simple. Platitudinous virtue signaling cannot arbitrarily drive down the value which tens or hundreds of thousands of consumers determine.
What kind of racism is it when people appraise something involving a minority as having higher value? Racism is the exact opposite. It would be if studios refused to pay females as much for IR as they pay for vanilla. If Jules Jordan was saying "I will never pay you as much for an IR scene as I would pay you to for a vanilla scene" - THEN we would have a big problem, because that drives down the value of work with minority performers. It would incentivize females to avoid doing IR. The system as it is incentivizes them to DO IR. That's what makes this whole nontroversy so absurd. The system isn't discriminating against. It's discriminating in favor of more IR.

[Link]

Melvyn
Senior Member

2797 Posts
12/12

Posted - May 11 2017 : 7:30PM

^ I just posted that without having had the delight in listening to this young lady Bella's "diary" vlog. I'm about halfway through listening to it right now. It's sad when someone as young and inexperienced to the industry is harangued.
She sounds a bit confused on a couple things, but she seems honest, and ultimately for her, it seems to be clear she's sincerely not attracted to darker color males.
It is weird to me how she opens by declaring she doesn't do porn for money. That can't be right. Why does she have an agency then? What do they do for her? Book her for unpaid work?
Anyway, a couple minor disputes aside, I think she acquits herself fairly, and this never should become a witch hunt in he first place. The unfortunate consequence is now it seems she feels backed into a corner against unfair accusations of bigotry, so she has to defend herself by accusing the industry of being racist. I just heard her say "porn is racist."
Are you guys beginning to see why bandying about such loaded interrogations and levying such damning charges is unproductive?
Remember, she is still young and probably can't see it yet, but by now we should all understand that indicting "porn" is tantamount to indicting all of us, we the consumers. Porn exists because of our interests, our patronage, our support. By deeming "porn is racist" it's a slam against consumers, particularly IR consumers. That's me and many of you. If she realized the inherent implication of that statement, I don't believe she would say it. I do not believe that is what she means. She has been harassed by unfair judgments, with poor rationality, and so it is unsurprising in her desperation that she may push back with similarly lacking rationality.
I wasn't a fan of hers before. Had never even heard of her til now. And from the sounds of it, I probably never will claim to be a fan since she seems to have no intentions of doing IR (though to her credit, she points out repeatedly that this is not a set in stone policy). Also to her credit, she cites Blacked among the exceptions to the (still outdated and increasingly unsubstantiated) generalization of IR portrayed negatively in porn. So she at least has a slightly more complete perspective on the genre than the reductionist and dismissive assertions made in previous years by female performers who generalized more broadly about how offensive IR porn is.
I also think this has to be great free publicity for Lansky and Blacked, who she mentions specifically. This could so easily be spun as "The racist white bitch who hates darkies still has to admit Blacked is some high quality porn!" lol

[Link]

Melvyn
Senior Member

2797 Posts
12/12

Posted - May 11 2017 : 7:36PM

Just when we thought it was safe to enjoy IR again with increased standards in superbly produced and classy presentation:
bella youtube wont do IR comments blacked.jpg

bella youtube wont do IR comments blacked.jpg

taken from the top comments under Bella's Youtube video.

[Link]

Melvyn
Senior Member

2797 Posts
12/12

Posted - May 11 2017 : 8:02PM

So much projection going on in those comments. When you read shit that really tips their hands like "white genocide"... oh please. I have no problem with people freely associating and forming their own racial hugbox groups. But when they talk about genocide and "defiling" I have to dispute that bullshit.

[Link]

whatsatelephonebill
Senior Member

2935 Posts
10/11

Posted - May 11 2017 : 8:26PM

^^^
And I'll say it one more time, just for effect. Most people aren't calling her racist because she says she isn't attracted to "dark skinned men" (real talk: some people are, but those people are the ones that nearly call every performer that doesn't profess their love for black men racist). The reasonable people in the argument are calling her racist because she flat out said that the only reason you should (and most do) shoot with black men is because you have no other choice.
Edited by - whatsatelephonebill on 5/11/2017 8:26:53 PM

[Link]

Eco195
Deactivated User

126 Posts
2/12

Posted - May 11 2017 : 8:28PM

Yeah she's getting hammered pretty hard on social media over those comments. Most girls though are savy enough to just not talk about why they don't do those scenes or they'll just lie and say they'll get around to it eventually and never do.
The "Not attracted" justification went out maybe 5-7 years ago after it became socially unpopular to say.
And apparently what really got her in trouble with lots of people in the industry was her inflammatory comment saying that the only girls who do these scenes are those who can't get work anymore or are desperate for money.
That's actually never been true as you've always had non-bigoted girls who were fine with such scenes. And even now many of the girls who do scenes for Blacked etc...do so very early in their careers well before they're no longer as popular and eager to give their careers a jolt.
Also it seems to me that she's attempting to rationalize her own career choice by assuming all the other girls in industry made the same choice for the same reasons she did which simply isn't borne out by the evidence.

Edited by - Eco195 on 5/11/2017 10:31:48 PM

[Link]

Melvyn
Senior Member

2797 Posts
12/12

Posted - May 11 2017 : 10:02PM

That is not her argument. She is saying that, from her perspective, the industry is set up to reward holding out on IR for performers with the "business" approach. She's saying that if they reserve their IR debut for later in their career, it can help prolong their relevance. The logic of this is pretty much fool-proof. It's the concept of staggering out your unique selling prospects.
Now, I do question just how long holding off is really worth it in most cases. I think if a female happens to have extra appeal with IR or black fans, she's doing herself a disservice by holding off for several years. She's leaving money on the table. I think particularly curvy females with big asses would be silly to hold off on IR. Yes, she could get a nice 5 grand extra bonus for her 1st IR, but by waiting 3 years or more, she could have easily earned 10 times that much money by catering to IR consumers.
So instead of gaining 5 grand, I see it more like losing 45 grand. Overall I simply think it's just better to broaden their appeal and be more inclusive.
In any case, I don't think it's fair to attack her as "Racist" as if she's just fabricating this logic of staggering unique selling points out of whole cloth. The logic is there, it's just more of the old paradigm stuff.
This argument is the result of push coming to shove, and as far as I can tell, she didn't start the fight. I have very little doubt that the attacks began against her and then she pushed back by taking shots at how she perceives people exploiting the IR genre in the industry. I think both parties are wrong, but she didn't start just taking shots at people for the sake of picking fights. The people who attacked her initially because they simply cannot comprehend that some people are turned off by certain attributes are guiltier in my opinion.

[Link]

Melvyn
Senior Member

2797 Posts
12/12

Posted - May 11 2017 : 10:21PM

This is the problem right here.
When was it ever socially popular to say you're not attracted to a demographic? As far back as I can remember that would be considered rude.
The fucking problem is pressing people on the matter and forcing them to speak the truth which may be hurtful in order to allay fears of an even worse accusation.
The typa motherfuckers who can't let it go are the absolute worst. Why is it so hard to accept that someone may not be attracted to you? There's countless black women out there who don't find white or asian men attractive. As far as they are concerned, those men don't even qualify as hypothetical sexual prospects. And that's perfectly fine! Nobody cares. Nobody is going to start grilling those black women who feel that way and threatening to crucify them in the public square.
If you notice someone is only dating one type of person, and that type of person is not what you identify as, are you going to pick a fight with them? Do you really think that is going to help change anything?
The sense of entitlement some people have is disgusting sometimes. Nobody has to fuck anyone to earn respect on an ethical level. Yet this seems to be the new litmus test imposed by entitled social justice warriors in 2017. They should be ashamed.
She doesn't want to fuck dark guys. Get over it. You interrogate her and she has to spell it out that she's not attracted to dark skin, and now you're mad and hurt by the truth, which is something she cannot control. For fuck's sake!
Not being attracted to dark skin =/= hating black people.
SJW's love moving the goalposts to ensure perpetual victimhood status. Save that for the Oppression Olympics.
These cats out here mad cuz some girl they never even heard of before today won't fuck everybody on the planet.

[Link]

whatsatelephonebill
Senior Member

2935 Posts
10/11

Posted - May 11 2017 : 10:56PM

Melvyn wrote:
whatsatelephonebill wrote:
^^^
And I'll say it one more time, just for effect. Most people aren't calling her racist because she says she isn't attracted to "dark skinned men" (real talk: some people are, but those people are the ones that nearly call every performer that doesn't profess their love for black men racist). The reasonable people in the argument are calling her racist because she flat out said that the only reason you should (and most do) shoot with black men is because you have no other choice.
Edited by - whatsatelephonebill on 5/11/2017 8:26:53 PM
Click to expand
That is not her argument. She is saying that, from her perspective, the industry is set up to reward holding out on IR for performers with the "business" approach. She's saying that if they reserve their IR debut for later in their career, it can help prolong their relevance. The logic of this is pretty much fool-proof. It's the concept of staggering out your unique selling prospects.
Now, I do question just how long holding off is really worth it in most cases. I think if a female happens to have extra appeal with IR or black fans, she's doing herself a disservice by holding off for several years. She's leaving money on the table. I think particularly curvy females with big asses would be silly to hold off on IR. Yes, she could get a nice 5 grand extra bonus for her 1st IR, but by waiting 3 years or more, she could have easily earned 10 times that much money by catering to IR consumers.
So instead of gaining 5 grand, I see it more like losing 45 grand. Overall I simply think it's just better to broaden their appeal and be more inclusive.
In any case, I don't think it's fair to attack her as "Racist" as if she's just fabricating this logic of staggering unique selling points out of whole cloth. The logic is there, it's just more of the old paradigm stuff.
This argument is the result of push coming to shove, and as far as I can tell, she didn't start the fight. I have very little doubt that the attacks began against her and then she pushed back by taking shots at how she perceives people exploiting the IR genre in the industry. I think both parties are wrong, but she didn't start just taking shots at people for the sake of picking fights. The people who attacked her initially because they simply cannot comprehend that some people are turned off by certain attributes are guiltier in my opinion.
Click to expand

I'm going to show her words, as she said them. She's taken down the blog post, but other people did capture it:
[Tweet is no longer available]
Her words are saying that in any instance besides those two (desperate for money, used up/shot out from doing other scenes) it doesn't make sense. Ignoring the fact that you know that isn't true, and I know that isn't true, why would she think/say that?

[Link]

Eco195
Deactivated User

126 Posts
2/12

Posted - May 12 2017 : 3:25AM

Melvyn wrote:
That is not her argument. She is saying that, from her perspective, the industry is set up to reward holding out on IR for performers with the "business" approach. She's saying that if they reserve their IR debut for later in their career, it can help prolong their relevance. The logic of this is pretty much fool-proof. It's the concept of staggering out your unique selling prospects.
Now, I do question just how long holding off is really worth it in most cases. I think if a female happens to have extra appeal with IR or black fans, she's doing herself a disservice by holding off for several years. She's leaving money on the table. I think particularly curvy females with big asses would be silly to hold off on IR. Yes, she could get a nice 5 grand extra bonus for her 1st IR, but by waiting 3 years or more, she could have easily earned 10 times that much money by catering to IR consumers.
So instead of gaining 5 grand, I see it more like losing 45 grand. Overall I simply think it's just better to broaden their appeal and be more inclusive.
In any case, I don't think it's fair to attack her as "Racist" as if she's just fabricating this logic of staggering unique selling points out of whole cloth. The logic is there, it's just more of the old paradigm stuff.
This argument is the result of push coming to shove, and as far as I can tell, she didn't start the fight. I have very little doubt that the attacks began against her and then she pushed back by taking shots at how she perceives people exploiting the IR genre in the industry. I think both parties are wrong, but she didn't start just taking shots at people for the sake of picking fights. The people who attacked her initially because they simply cannot comprehend that some people are turned off by certain attributes are guiltier in my opinion.
Click to expand

That's definitely illogical. The "stagger the type of scenes you do to keep your career going longer" doesn't hold up well to scrutiny. Girls are done in by the number of scenes they do in a given amount of time not the type of scenes the do.
For example, if a girl did 2 anal scenes a year that would be far better than 10. Unless she wanted to be the star of that genre. Or if she did 5 b/g scenes a year instead of 40 that would stretch her career out more. And limit the possibility of over exposure.
Furthermore, 10-15 years ago it made sense to stagger the genres one did because VHS/DVD's were king and the pace of careers was far slower. But now because the average career in porn lasts 6 months or so and more girls are entering the industry every month than they ever have, it's more difficult to keep the public's attention so it pays to have your "1st's" lined up inside of a 1-3 year period while your're still popular before a new batch of girls replace you and you get forgotten, which inevitably will happen.
As for Bella, she did start the discussion by making a blog post about why she won't do the scenes. So while she didn't intend to pick a fight, she did.
And she did so by saying she wasn't going do the scenes because she's not attracted to Blacks. Not something anyone really says out loud anymore for obvious reasons. But if she'd left it at that it would have garnered some criticism but not much.
It became a firestorm of controversy though because she added that girls only do those scenes because they're "shot out," desperate for money, or at the end of their careers.
Which is laughably false reasoning that went away about 10 years ago because it was quite wrong and also offensive in its implication.
And the racism label definitely applies to her primarily due to her arguments which reveal her mindset, because:
1. She made it clear she doesn't like Blacks.
2. Her reasoning about why girls do those scenes is basically that they don't want to do them but only do so out of desperation for the 3 aforementioned reasons.
3. She also went on to make some argument about how IR itself is racist, including Blacked. Which is absurd given how non-offensive that site is, but also ridiculous given her own personal beliefs concerning her not wanting to do the scenes anyway.
So it seems she can't wrap her mind around the fact that a lot of women simply don't share her bigoted beliefs and don't need to be pushed to work with Black guys. They do so because they want to .
Edited by - Eco195 on 5/12/2017 3:26:07 AM

[Link]

Quorrl
Senior Member

2835 Posts
3/11

Posted - May 12 2017 : 7:07AM

How does anyone care what people on 4chan and Reddit say & think? I mean there are lunatics in abundance.

[Link]

LCF

All-Star Member

Non Prevalebunt!
10364 Posts
1/05

Posted - May 12 2017 : 9:09AM

misspornUSA wrote:
^To me, "I only date black men" only implies that the speaker doesn't date men who aren't black. It does not imply to me that this person dates black men indiscriminately, while "I'm not attracted to black men" does indeed imply to me that the speaker is indiscriminately unattracted to blacks.
No one needs a hundred pages of specifications. Bella Rose is herself an example of someone who provided a sensible distinction in her video, and I doubt that if what she said on that subject were transcribed it would fill a hundred pages. In fact, short statements are entirely possible: "I've never been attracted to a black man", "I'm not attracted to any black men in the industry", etc. Pornstars aren't under any moral obligation to make such distinctions, but they have to realize that when they don't they risking sounding racist. Even if they get specific they won't please everyone, since obviously a dark skinned fan's fantasy might be diluted if s/he watches Bella's video. But even in light of that, I still think it's best to avoid sounding racist if you're not racist.
Click to expand

Unless the first one means she's not attracted to black men but dates them nevertheless it is implied she's not attracted by anybody who is not black indiscriminately , it's an elegant way to say I'm not attracted to any white man or Asian man or whatever.
the point I was trying to make is that if you say I only date white men you're authomatically tagged as racist whereas you can freely say you only date black men with no reaction

[Link]

pat362
Senior Member

10083 Posts
3/10

Posted - May 12 2017 : 9:33AM

^I guess it's one of those subjects that has a double standard depending on which side of the equation you happen to be on like few people seem to have a problem when a 28 years old female teacher has sex with one of her teenage students but they grab their pitchfork and torch the moment the genders are reversed.
After God knows how many back and forth on this thread over the years. I've come to the conclusion that it doesn't matter the opinion anyone has on the subject of interracial porn because it will always be the wrong one to anyone who has a different one than yours and it doesn't matter what arguments you bring forth. You aren't changing the mind of anyone.

[Link]

misspornUSA
Senior Member

I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine).
8737 Posts
11/13

Posted - May 12 2017 : 11:01AM

^My opinion has changed because of what I've learned on this thread.

[Link]

fanofman
Senior Member

2053 Posts
9/15

Posted - May 12 2017 : 12:07PM

Some additional Bella Rose tweets that were captured.
[Tweet is no longer available]

[Link]

misspornUSA
Senior Member

I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine).
8737 Posts
11/13

Posted - May 12 2017 : 12:18PM

^^^^Do pornstars even use "I only date white men" as an excuse?

[Link]

whatsatelephonebill
Senior Member

2935 Posts
10/11

Posted - May 12 2017 : 1:21PM

Just because there are men on the internet who will say "nice" when a female teacher has sex with a teenage student, it doesn't mean that not many people have a problem with it. When found out, the woman still loses her job and generally faces criminal prosecution, just like the men who do it.

[Link]

blkknight1
Member

707 Posts
10/09

Posted - May 12 2017 : 3:38PM

@LCF
Do you honestly think that a white woman in porn or in real life can openly and honestly proclaim that she only wants to date black men and there be no reaction. I not trying to start anything man you are wrong about that, a woman says she is not attracted to black guys and she is called racist, bitch, etc but a white woman say she is only attracted to black guys she is called race traitor, mudshark, n****r lover, coal burner. monkey lover, future single mother, and it goes on and on and on, matter of fact she does not even have to express the preference all she has to do in many cases is be associated with one.
Just look at this fairly innocent tweet from Abby Cross a few months ago where she expressed she found the guy seated next to her attractive.
https://twitter.com/AbbyCrossXXX/status/821954881778892800
All she did was say that she found the guy to be sexy and she had a couple of guys react negatively to that.
Just last week here in the states down in Arkansas you had a Dad tell his daughter to never contact him again and what did she do she went to warrant that reaction she went to her prom with her close friend who happened to be black. A couple of months back you had a girl a high school student about to go off to college get totally cut off by her parents because her boyfriend is black. There is a anchor at ESPN by the name of Lindsay Czarniak she is married to and has kids with her husband who happens to be black and she does what people do now posts pics of her family her and you cant click one and not find some kind of disgusting comment about her her husband or her kids. Ashley Graham wrote in her book about how the first time she brought her now husband home to meet her family her grandmother refused to acknowledge him and how he had to put in the extra effort.
It doesn't matter porn, everyday life, in movies, tv shows, hell even comic books there are still many out there that hate seeing a white woman with a black man. So to say that a woman can say that she is only attracted to black men and there be no reaction is totally false. In many cases a white woman can not even express an attraction to or have a friendship with a black man without catching some kind of heat. Not just from white men, but from angry black women as well.
@Melvyn
I did have a chance to view the blog post before she deleted it and I did not have a problem with her not doing IR, I knew of her previously and I saw what agency she signed with and right then in there it would be a long time before she ever did IR if she ever did it at all. When I read it the blog honestly was nothing profound or eye opening it was basically the same things that ever other girl in porn that is not doing IR has been saying over the past few year basically generalizing IR porn as for lack of a better word "trashy" and calling the industry racist for it practices and again no problem on my part because we have seen evidence to the contrary even well before Blacked came along. In fact if you look up Carter Cruise's blog post about IR it basically says the same exact thing she wrote.
She got into trouble not with the so called SJW she got in trouble with her contemporaries when she talked about herself not doing IR because she only wanted to do scenes where she genuinely enjoyed them she was fine, but then she waded into calling most of the girl who are shooting IR disingenuous. I know this is not an apples to apple comparison but imagine if over the weekend someone you worked with was quitting on Monday and sent out a company wide email or made a post someplace basically saying most of the people hated the company or the boss and the only reason there because they have no other options. Would you be a little ticked if you did not feel that way that someone is speaking about something for you. That is what happened here the most vocal of her critics are not the SJWs as people are suggesting it is her fellow performers past and present they were the ones to bring up the word racist.
you forgot to add who the first reply to top comment was and what she said

It is kinda odd that she would be in total agreement with that seeing as in her original post she held that Blacked was actually the exception, she praised them as being classy. Now she agrees that their subscribers are all cucks, blacks, and guys who want to see a white girl defiled. Just one more thing about that response she agrees with, the line where the poster says that IR needs to incentivize white girls to do IR because its harder to get women to go against in-group preference, then I would ask her since she agrees with that line of thinking why is that not the case with non-white performers doing scenes with white men. After all those women would be drawn more towards men of their own group, would they not need to also be incentivized to perform with white males? Or how heterowomen doing GG scenes do they not need a greater incentive to do those scenes.
What it boils down to is that she like other before her wrote a blog on a complex and controversial topic without actually bothering to go out and get informed about the topic first. Or maybe she and her agency just pulled one of the most brilliant mind fucks on us all remember she is repped by LA Direct who also rep Adriana Chechik who tried to drive up her IR asking price by trying to be controversial. Nothing drives up demand like controversy after all.

[Link]

misspornUSA
Senior Member

I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine).
8737 Posts
11/13

Posted - May 12 2017 : 5:38PM

^Judging from that YouTube reply and what she initially vote, it seems that she takes a very low view of IR, to say the least.

[Link]

Melvyn
Senior Member

2797 Posts
12/12

Posted - May 12 2017 : 7:07PM

whatsatelephonebill wrote:
Melvyn wrote:
whatsatelephonebill wrote:
^^^
And I'll say it one more time, just for effect. Most people aren't calling her racist because she says she isn't attracted to "dark skinned men" (real talk: some people are, but those people are the ones that nearly call every performer that doesn't profess their love for black men racist). The reasonable people in the argument are calling her racist because she flat out said that the only reason you should (and most do) shoot with black men is because you have no other choice.
Edited by - whatsatelephonebill on 5/11/2017 8:26:53 PM
Click to expand
That is not her argument. She is saying that, from her perspective, the industry is set up to reward holding out on IR for performers with the "business" approach. She's saying that if they reserve their IR debut for later in their career, it can help prolong their relevance. The logic of this is pretty much fool-proof. It's the concept of staggering out your unique selling prospects.
Now, I do question just how long holding off is really worth it in most cases. I think if a female happens to have extra appeal with IR or black fans, she's doing herself a disservice by holding off for several years. She's leaving money on the table. I think particularly curvy females with big asses would be silly to hold off on IR. Yes, she could get a nice 5 grand extra bonus for her 1st IR, but by waiting 3 years or more, she could have easily earned 10 times that much money by catering to IR consumers.
So instead of gaining 5 grand, I see it more like losing 45 grand. Overall I simply think it's just better to broaden their appeal and be more inclusive.
In any case, I don't think it's fair to attack her as "Racist" as if she's just fabricating this logic of staggering unique selling points out of whole cloth. The logic is there, it's just more of the old paradigm stuff.
This argument is the result of push coming to shove, and as far as I can tell, she didn't start the fight. I have very little doubt that the attacks began against her and then she pushed back by taking shots at how she perceives people exploiting the IR genre in the industry. I think both parties are wrong, but she didn't start just taking shots at people for the sake of picking fights. The people who attacked her initially because they simply cannot comprehend that some people are turned off by certain attributes are guiltier in my opinion.
Click to expand
I'm going to show her words, as she said them. She's taken down the blog post, but other people did capture it:
[Tweet is no longer available]
Her words are saying that in any instance besides those two (desperate for money, used up/shot out from doing other scenes) it doesn't make sense. Ignoring the fact that you know that isn't true, and I know that isn't true, why would she think/say that?
Click to expand

Yes, she is saying that predicated on the notion that IR in porn is racist, an argument we've heard several times before which some people still hold on to. And this notion is made popular precisely by the type of unmerited indignation folks have over this very topic. So she's actually found purchase for her claims because of these specious accusations which judge the surface of the industry practice without examining the substance.
And so what she adds actually sounds a lot like the same arguments those who attack "dodgers" use. It's funny because indignant critics are applying the same reductive logic to deem something "racist" and yet these arguments are now coming from polar ends.
Some critics decry, "You won't do IR? What are you racist?" and these same critics also indict the porn industry as a whole as being racist for the practice of extra pay for IR debut exclusivity.
She's just using the same "porn is racist" flawed reasoning as her critics.
And ironically, even though I much prefer more IR participation and I find it disappointing someone would avoid IR, and despite being such a big IR fan myself, I still find myself defending her right to do what she prefers.
I think both she and her critics are wrong in so casually labeling things racist, but she is absolutely right nobody should have to do anything in porn they aren't comfortable with.
So I suggest instead of calling performers racist, and instead of taking cheap shots to indict the industry as racist, all of this nonsense could be avoided by chalking it up to preferences, different strokes for different folks. Nobody's life depends on this. It's a luxury commodity. Don't like what someone is into? Jog on. Bothered that someone might not be into something? Jog on. Nobody should be getting up in arms about this.
She is off the mark about a couple things she says, but regarding the most important issue, she's in the right.
But I think it is funny now that those people who were previously also condemning the industry as racist because of the IR bonus pay deal are now suddenly defending the industry against her similarly misguided charge of racism.
They were so comfortable dishing out accusations and condemnation, but when it comes their way, suddenly it's unfair.
It all comes back to what myself and many others have been recommending for years now: stop launching sanctimonious attacks without just cause. By and large, these performers aren't racist. The industry by and large is not racist.
Once in a blue moon there's some truly outrageous shit happening or being said by some ignorant and hateful people. A few of these people are racist and deserve to be rebuked. It should be enough that we live in a world where there is already plenty of examples of racist shit being said on the internet that we don't have to bring out pitchforks at the mere suspicion someone might not be into IR porn.
I hope people learn from this how silly it is to attack each other especially without having even the slightest familiarity with the other.

[Link]

Melvyn
Senior Member

2797 Posts
12/12

Posted - May 12 2017 : 7:23PM

You would be surprised how influential those people are.
Yes, their ranks are rife with swine, but I also think they have some of the tech savviest, philosophically wisest, and I dare say noblest denizens of the whole internet among them. It would be very perilous to try and paint all of them with the same brush.
And believe me, I know of their villainous subsect element firsthand all too well. To them, I'm a cuck, a zionist, a blight on the white race, or a fag, which is hilarious because I am none of these. But again, that's just a vocal subsect, and oftentimes the loudest group is just an ineffectual rabble. The biggest threat they pose is to their own constituency as their ignorant and savage tactics more often than not undermine their own purported goals.
I don't believe they represent at all the greater body of 4chan or Reddit and the like. They are simply tolerated because of very lax decorum standards in those domains.
Never let the trolls fool you into overestimating them. They only have what power you give them. Meanwhile, most of the people who populate those forums lean toward chaotic good.

[Link]

chessmaster
Member

768 Posts
6/12

Posted - May 12 2017 : 7:31PM

well now I couldn't care less about Bella rose(didnt care before as I didn't know who she was either). now I only care about when Abby cross is coming to the dark side.

[Link]

misspornUSA
Senior Member

I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine).
8737 Posts
11/13

Posted - May 12 2017 : 7:33PM

^^I've spent very little time on Reddit over the years but I have read some great discussions on there.

Edited by - misspornUSA on 5/12/2017 7:35:55 PM

[Link]

misspornUSA
Senior Member

I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine).
8737 Posts
11/13

Posted - May 12 2017 : 7:35PM

[Link]

Melvyn
Senior Member

2797 Posts
12/12

Posted - May 12 2017 : 7:46PM

Yes, and again, it shows how misguided she is. I think by this point she is looking for some kind of narrative to help defend herself. But was that sincerely how she felt before she was attacked? I have doubts.
This is why you shouldn't go picking fights without cause. Her not wanting to do IR porn simply because she doesn't find dark skin attractive was fine, but she was told that's not good enough. IT IS GOOD ENOUGH. But when people dogpile and harass and harangue, I think it's inevitable she looks to some narrative, however tenuously formulated, to lean on in her defense.
Which thoughts do you all think came to her mind first:
her biologically dictated physical desires, and her realizing her own sexuality, and possibly consciously thinking about what she's into and what she's not
OR
narratives about why these phenomenon must be socially deconstructed and analyzed
?
I don't think anybody could honestly believe the latter precipitates the former. Rather, it's the sociological psycho babble bullshit that stems from the biological impulses.
There must have been a point where she was an innocent average chick, not throwing stones at anyone, just exploring her sexuality and tastes as she preferred. Then the outrage brigade finds fault and tells her how hateful she is.
It's projection 101. It is pathetic and shameful. Stop witch hunting. There's enough real monsters out there.
And look at what happens when you go hunting for witches. You actually drive her into the arms of madmen like that 4chan Cyclops.
This is the mirror of the overbearing and racist father warning her daughter to never associate with black thugs, lecturing her about how they're bad, yet inadvertently planting the seeds of desire in her mind to go get "blacked."
Instead we have uppity SJW's croning about how you are to be ashamed of your natural preferences, telling a young woman she's the worst type of bigot around simply because of her biological preferences - as if she can control that!
This is Puritanical.
And tragically, because of her questionable co-signing of that Cyclops's comment, I have no doubt The Inquisition will continue!

[Link]

misspornUSA
Senior Member

I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine).
8737 Posts
11/13

Posted - May 12 2017 : 8:13PM

The excerpt from her now deleted blog post already suggests a low view of IR. That excerpt is what was circulated on Twitter and what seems to have generated a lot of the blowback, and I think that it led to more people calling her out on the "attraction" issue than would have done so otherwise. In other words, they're interpreting the rest of what she said through the filter of that excerpt. IR watchdogs are one thing, but the criticism she's receiving appears to be much more widespread than that. From what I can tell that's due to the blog excerpt and was only compounded by what she had to say about dark skin. Her lack of attraction to dark skin doesn't seem to me to really be the focus of the controversy at all.

[Link]

NomnoMnOm
Member

379 Posts
5/15

Posted - May 13 2017 : 12:19AM

In her original blog, she said she has never found a dark skinned person attractive and that she will not work with someone she isn't attracted to, because she wants her scenes to be real and genuine. That's totally cool.
She fucked up when she implied MOST other performers also share her lack of attraction and ONLY shoot IR scenes when they are desperate for cash and/or used up and shot out, basically implying MOST performers' IR scenes aren't real and genuine. She also fucked up when she said IR scenes are USUALLY more degrading than other scenes. Tell that to Jules, Mime, Mason and a whole host of others that've put in a lot of time to give us quality IR scenes.
It would have been just fine if she had just spoken for herself and not lump in others.
In her follow-up blog, she said her agent at La Direct agreed thatshe wrote the truth, so apparently he thinks this way too, according to her.
Link to her original blog

[Link]

blkknight1
Member

707 Posts
10/09

Posted - May 13 2017 : 12:51AM

Here is the full text of what she wrote word for word
IT IS OKAY THAT I DON探 WANT TO DO IR! LET ME TELL YOU WHY!
IT IS OKAY THAT I DON’T WANT TO DO IR!
LET ME TELL YOU WHY!
Are you attracted to girls with big boobs? Saggy boobs? Are you attracted to female or male? What about blonde or brown hair? Blue eyes or brown eyes?
I am not racist at all! I do not think someone is less of a person because of their skin color! I personally just am not attracted to dark skinned individuals! I do not get horny over them! Just like some dark skinned individuals aren’t attracted to light skinned individuals. That does not mean that I wouldn’t be BFFS with someone of a different Race. I am also not saying that I could NEVER EVER in 1000 years find someone attractive that is a different race but so far that has not been the case for me!
Yes, this is porn and its for show! I am not one of those girls who are going to do this and that just for my fans but make myself miserable with not being attracted. You guys want to see good content right? You want to watch something that seems as real as it would be with you? Maybe its a fantasy, maybe its not! For myself I want to be the girl who seems real and genuine, so… I only want to put out product that is REAL AND GENUINE.
Most girls do IR for the money in porn! Which makes porn racist, not the girl! The fact that people see it as such a risqué act makes it different then just regular what they call B/G.
So.. from a business stand point doing IR makes sense if you A) want to make a lot more money real fast cause you have rent due and you need to pay it asap. or B) You are in a place in your porn career where the fans have been waiting forever, and you are all used up from b/g or anal! This is another reason that I do not want to do interracial Business wise.
I feel it is RACIST to actually to IR in porn because of the fact that it pays more than regular b/g, that people look at it differently, that the scenes USUALLY are more degrading and dirty! That is most certainly fine for some ladies and gentlemen. That just is not for me! Sorry! I am not talking about BLACKED, some companies are very elegant and that is great! I am glad they bring that to the table.
I understand this will stir the pot! I am sure I will get a lot of different feedback from this! I am aware and prepared! I just wanted to answer the millions of comments and questions a day about my opinion on IR, and the question of when I’m going to do IR.
Things do change peoples minds and maybe one day I would find that one guy that changes everything but at this moment this is how I feel! I do not believe this is being racist! If this is being racist then I guess you are homophobic for not having sex with a male when you are a male! WHY WON’T YOU DO BOY ON BOY ANAL? Oh yea.. because you aren’t attracted to males!
We are not all attracted to the same thing and that is okay isn’t it?
Thats it for now… Don’t kill me. Bye!
Bella Elise Rose
As you can see misspornusa is right her opinion of IR is not that high, she seems to look down on those that choose to do IR with her post. She says she want to be real and genuine in her scenes and immediately after say most girls do IR for the money which would imply that she does not see them as being real or genuine. And that doing IR makes sense when you are broke or used up. This is what Lilly Ford, Dolly Leigh, Alana Evans, Katja Kassin took issue with She points out that the scenes are usually degrading and dirty and she singles out Blacked as the lone exception. The fact that she says that its something to be done when you are all used up would point to her not thinking too much of it. Alana a long time vet of porn tried to offer some advice to and went so far as to try and explain why saying that was offensive to her fellow performers, but she was not having it. What does she do instead writes another blog and talks about how the girls who came after her are the ones that don't work much anymore and calling them bullies and again Alana tried to engage her one pornstar to another with no kind of malice and she got blocked for the effort.
Misspornusa is also right when she talks about how the whole attraction issue being secondary. Those initial excerpt made no mention of dark skin or being attracted only if you had read that before she deleted it would you have known. In fact it was not until she made that youtube video that anyone actually started taking issue with what she said about attraction and it was mainly her supporters that turned this into an attraction issue when they used it to defend her, largely ignoring what caused the dust up in the first place which was what she said about performers who do IR and under what circumstances they do it.

[Link]

NomnoMnOm
Member

379 Posts
5/15

Posted - May 13 2017 : 1:51AM

She clarifies herself on what she intended to convey

[Link]