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Introducing Kalani Luana| Author | Post |
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| ntfighter Member 645 Posts 7/07 |  Posted - Aug 19 2008 : 9:56PM[Link] |
| ninja1 Senior Member 2939 Posts 1/08 | Posted - Aug 19 2008 : 9:59PM [Link] |
Flash  Golden Age Classic 11018 Posts 5/01 | Posted - Aug 19 2008 : 10:32PM You can try to justify your theft to yourself anyway you want but it's still theft. [Link] |
| Flash Golden Age Classic 11018 Posts 5/01 | Posted - Aug 19 2008 : 10:34PM [Link] |
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| Lonborg Member 114 Posts 1/03 | Posted - Aug 19 2008 : 10:59PM [Link] |
| ninja1 Senior Member 2939 Posts 1/08 | Posted - Aug 19 2008 : 11:23PM [Link] |
| RandomPrecision Senior Member Enjoy! 8175 Posts 3/06 | Posted - Aug 20 2008 : 2:44AM You're making a mistake by comparing digital bits to a physical product. It's a bad analogy. It is theft but it's a different kind of theft and it's a more nebulous concept. People just don't see the harm. I'm not saying the harm isn't real. But the simple fact is that the vast majority of people don't see it and/or they don't care. Sure. I understand copyright holders complaining and being upset but that isn't going to solve the problem. If we had to toss everybody who stole something with a copyright on it in jail, we'd have to toss probably 80,000,000 people in jail (including kids). It's just not gonna happen. Try locking up 5,000,000 kids and see what happens. Like I said. This is not going to be an easy problem to solve. Theft is wrong and I'm not disputing that. The problem is, people have more incentive to steal than they do to pay. They won't see the effects of their actions until quality music and movies disappear. They will argue with anything you say. They will fight any law. If torrent sites are shut down, they will simply shift to another strategy. If they are arrested and charged, they'll cry as though they were the victims and millions of people will sympathize with them and villanize the copyright holders as greedy bloodsuckers. [Link] |
| Prophit Member 378 Posts 1/07 | Posted - Aug 20 2008 : 3:09AM [Link] |
| BlackSix All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07 | Posted - Aug 20 2008 : 4:58AM I'm surprised no one has mentioned that most people probably don't give a shit about the effects of downloading porn because they couldn't care less about 'the industry.' It's not like the majority of viewers care about the performers; why should they care about the producers, companies and directors? I would say that porn is seen as having very little value in modern society, often even by those who produce and perform in it. If quality was a determining factor in the porn market why would things be where they are today with loads of substandard shit being pumped out every month? VHS beat out film because it was convenient and private, downloading porn (usually for free) on your computer is even more convenient and private. Eventually there will only be pay sites and the pirates. [Link] |
| Savoy All-Star Member Sucker for Sinners 1844 Posts 12/06 | Posted - Aug 20 2008 : 5:34AM I stole porn because I didn't care about porn on the whole. It's the junk food of entertainment. I never thought about it when I didn't need it and when I did need it, it was an instant craving and stealing online was instant gratification. Afterwards, I didn't think twice about it. I had zero respect for porn producers. Back then, the two douchebags in a New Jersey basement abusing some poor girl were in the same category as PT to me. I didn't differentiate. I didn't understand that there is a heirarchy in play. I had to care about porn to learn that. Most people don't care. Porn is a disposable product. Popular opinion on this forum in no way represents the truth of consumer opinion out there. If you are here on ADT, you care about your porn consumption. [Link] |
| RandomPrecision Senior Member Enjoy! 8175 Posts 3/06 | Posted - Aug 20 2008 : 5:37AM I almost always buy what I want or do without. I have spent far more money in my life on porn than the value of anything I've ever downloaded. But to answer your question. If I have a choice between going to the video store and buying a nice, quality product with a nice case and all and downloading an inferior copy, no contest. I'll buy it. Even if the copy was full quality, I'm still buying it because I do see cause and effect. I enjoy porn and I know I wouldn't be able to if not for the people who make it. Of course, I realize that probably at least 80% of the public doesn't give a damn and they're going to destroy the entire entertainment industry as we know it in the end. Edited by - randomprecision on 8/20/2008 5:38:34 AM [Link] |
| licker Senior Member Heretic, Iconoclast, Skeptic 1141 Posts 8/03 | Posted - Aug 20 2008 : 11:00AM I have purchased many DVDs, and I do not download movies for free. I no longer purchase porn DVDs. There are too many "witch hunts" happening. In a country that is staging Gestapo raids on fine art galleries, it is no longer sensible to bring erotic DVDs through customs. The only movies I have seen recently have been those from pay sites that shoot their own material. I have paid for subscriptions to those sites in order to watch their videos. On the "not stealing" point, your statement (perhaps unintentionally) seems to imply that "anything that is not stealing must be ok". Unlicensed copying is not stealing. It is still illegal (and I said so). Murder is not stealing, rape is not stealing, reckless driving is not stealing, assault and battery are not stealing. Clearly you would not argue with any of those statements, yet that does not imply that you think those crimes are "OK". If people like Bob and Juha were going around pointing at drunk drivers and shrilling "Thief! Thief!" we would have no trouble seeing how ridiculous it was. We wouldn't expect their efforts to have any effect on fixing the problem of drunk driving. Copyright is a convenient legal fiction that we created in order to encourage people to make a living from producing books, music and movies. For some reason it seems to have lost the support of a large chunk of the world's population. If we want to win back that support, we have a selling job on our hands. Winning support is something that can only be done with reason and respect. Lies, threats and insults have no chance of doing the job. The RIAA and the DMCA have done a great job of making the whole concept of copyright stink in the nostrils of decent people, even those of us who make our living from it. When the printing press was invented, the Church tried to get it banned. They were terrified that the general population might learn to read, and worse actually read the Bible themselves. The powerful role of priests as the gatekeepers of all doctrine was under threat. The Church's whole business model could collapse. No doubt they inflicted a lot of pain, misery and death while trying to suppress the technology. They still failed utterly, and today printed books are everywhere. Today something similar is happening with computers and the internet. Some very big business models are going to collapse. No doubt some big companies are going to inflict a lot of pain and misery on people as they go broke. The companies that survive will be those that can spot the opportunities in the new technologies, and figure out how to ride the wave. (iTunes anyone?). I have not advocated that anyone should break any law. I have tried, without much success, to get a few people here to think objectively about the issue. I don't have any skin in this game one way or the other, so now I am going to shut up. [Link] |
| Drew Black broken crankshaft 8011 Posts 9/99 | Posted - Aug 20 2008 : 11:17AM [Link] |
| Mike Quasar Zero Tolerance Reluctant pornographer 1765 Posts 7/01 | Posted - Aug 20 2008 : 11:17AM If it were that easy and straightforward to purchase an entire movie or individual porn scenes, would there be less people stealing content? [Link] |
| Ramsey Senior Member Trina Michaels fan 10332 Posts 10/02 | Posted - Aug 20 2008 : 11:41AM [Link] |
| NewRomancer Deactivated User under THEIR avatar 738 Posts 7/08 | Posted - Aug 20 2008 : 11:44AM It's my experience that most book collectors are voracious readers and rereaders.... Your mileage may vary. [Link] |
| Drew Black broken crankshaft 8011 Posts 9/99 | Posted - Aug 20 2008 : 12:22PM [Link] |
| hollywood woody Senior Member Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07 | Posted - Aug 20 2008 : 12:38PM btw the feds are watching those sites. They just busted a huge child porn ring off of them. They take copywritten material and post it. that is stealing...period. [Link] |
| Flash Golden Age Classic 11018 Posts 5/01 | Posted - Aug 20 2008 : 1:03PM [Link] |
| Flash Golden Age Classic 11018 Posts 5/01 | Posted - Aug 20 2008 : 1:05PM [Link] |
| ninja1 Senior Member 2939 Posts 1/08 | Posted - Aug 20 2008 : 1:12PM [Link] |
| Sean Renaud Member 181 Posts 7/07 | Posted - Aug 20 2008 : 2:34PM I mean if I search up what I want where am I going to see new stuff, new girls, new directors etc? [Link] |
| Bob All-Star Member 5516 Posts 3/03 | Posted - Aug 20 2008 : 3:13PM I didn't say that copyright infringement was theft. I said (in contrast to you) that it was absurd and disingenuous to call it "free advertising". "Joy riding" isn't theft either, because the crime of theft requires, as an element, "the intent to permanently deprive" someone of their property (as distinguished from "the intent to take unauthorized temporary possession and to engage in unauthorized temporary use of someone else's property"). Drunk driving, joy riding, and copyright infringement aren't "theft", but they are (1) unethical; (2) demonstrative of a thoughtless disregard for the rights and feelings of others; and (2) illegal here in the States. 'nuff said. ----------------------- Edited by - bob on 8/20/2008 7:19:36 PM [Link] |
| juha Senior Member 2752 Posts 3/05 | Posted - Aug 20 2008 : 3:48PM The copyright as we know it is an achievement of the industrialisation. The progress of the last 200 years is unthinkable without the copyright. [Link] |
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| juha Senior Member 2752 Posts 3/05 | Posted - Aug 20 2008 : 3:51PM [Link] |
| juha Senior Member 2752 Posts 3/05 | Posted - Aug 20 2008 : 3:56PM source: www.paidcontent.org/entry/419-radiohead-album-shifted-more-by-torrent-than-official-website [Link] |
| hollywood woody Senior Member Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07 | Posted - Aug 20 2008 : 6:08PM [Link] |
| hollywood woody Senior Member Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07 | Posted - Aug 20 2008 : 6:12PM You are taking something that doesn't belong to you, and like you said, it is illegal. Isn't it illegal because it is a theft? It isn't illegal because it is thoughtless of others feelings orunethical. Edited by - hollywood woody on 8/20/2008 6:14:47 PM [Link] |
| Bob All-Star Member 5516 Posts 3/03 | Posted - Aug 20 2008 : 7:15PM "Theft" has a specific meaning under criminal law. "Copyright infringement" does not fall under the technical rubric of "theft". [Link] |
| Bob All-Star Member 5516 Posts 3/03 | Posted - Aug 20 2008 : 7:23PM The term "stealing" is very attitudinal and not very precise. [Link] |
| ninja1 Senior Member 2939 Posts 1/08 | Posted - Aug 20 2008 : 7:46PM I searched and found something about a D.C area guy snagged by the FBI for childporn distribution using limewire, arrested 1-2 weeks ago, had 80GB of illegal content on an external HD. I wasn't aware of it before now. The case I mentioned is older, a couple of months old perhaps. [Link] |
| Bob All-Star Member 5516 Posts 3/03 | Posted - Aug 20 2008 : 8:37PM Groceries and grocery stores are tangible and immediate, whereas intellectual property (as distinguished from its physical embodiment) is intangible and copyright owners are removed (and, in the mind of the simpleton, essentially theoretical). I'd guess that even most of the people who don't think twice about "file sharing" wouldn't dream of stealing a CD from a record store, and I don't think that that's purely a function of the likelihood of punishment or other swift consequences. Which doesn't make copyright infringement right, or even excusable, but . . . ------------- [typos] Edited by - bob on 8/20/2008 8:40:26 PM [Link] |
| macca77 Member 45 Posts 6/07 | Posted - Aug 21 2008 : 12:06AM [Link] |
| Harri Patel Senior Member #SDNY he's all yours. -- Michael Steele 5110 Posts 3/03 | Posted - Aug 21 2008 : 12:39AM Edits: fixed links Edited by - Harri Patel on 8/21/2008 3:23:04 AM Edited by - Harri Patel on 8/21/2008 3:26:22 AM [Link] |
| phatbasey Senior Member 1390 Posts 1/05 | Posted - Aug 21 2008 : 12:48AM Edited by - phatbasey on 8/21/2008 12:55:22 AM [Link] |
| Bob All-Star Member 5516 Posts 3/03 | Posted - Aug 21 2008 : 2:46AM I hear you. Distinctions and nuances -- they're pains in the ass, aren't they? [Link] |
| Endless Loop Senior Member Tomatometer 1129 Posts 8/04 | Posted - Aug 21 2008 : 5:31AM I don't hassle with filesharing, downloading through torrent, or any peer to peer servers, but at the same time, I've watched everything I've been fortunate enough to come across, that happened to come available, without a second thought of whether it was stolen or not. All this, and I still can't find a ready supply of hot creative content, as there's simply too much crappy smut pumped out, literally filling both the real, and virtual worlds of porn like a giant cellulose cushion. Billions of styrofoam packing peanuts, that surround and compact everything, never falling away, but rather sticking to the sides of every director, every studio, every site, and every star. Mundane, worthless shit, that has to be either skillfully navigated around, or scanned through, to sift out any scrap of worth. From my perspective, nothing good is ever free, its wherever you find it, and it all comes at a price. As for the freeloaders who merely skim across the surface, feeding only on dead fish, and the free scum that floats, every habitat has its scavengers. They may well be the bottom of the food chain, but don't expect them to leave for the sake of morals. Edited by - Endless loop on 8/21/2008 6:23:36 AM [Link] |
| Ramsey Senior Member Trina Michaels fan 10332 Posts 10/02 | Posted - Aug 21 2008 : 11:58AM [Link] |
| hollywood woody Senior Member Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07 | Posted - Aug 21 2008 : 1:49PM Somewhere there is a cost involved. If copyright infingement is not theft, why is there a FBI warning at the being of every dvd stating that if you copy or show this dvd without written consent it is punishable by a large fine and jail time? I think you are using symantics to your advantage. If you take something that isn't yours, what is that called? [Link] |
| Clam Digger Deactivated User Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good. 2268 Posts 1/05 | Posted - Aug 21 2008 : 6:18PM What companies seem to be prospering or at least weathering out the storm? If we consider all that the numbers of tittles/scenes produced from the 70's until present; is new and fresh material possible? Is the porn business really being damaged by theft/bootlegging or is it that there really is not much more to sell, let alone steal? I have boxes of the stuff all over the place. My wife is in mortal fear that I will pass before her and that she will be stuck getting our son to clean out the place. I could watch something different every might for a couple of years just by going through what I already have. If, even a majority of the digitally perverted steal qazillions of scenes just who is going to watch it all. And is it going to matter? Who can really watch all of this stuff. If only the shut-in and manic are really responsible for most of the damage, is it really hurting anyone that some of these rather obsessive people have an itch that can never be scratched. The rush just may come from the ability to say that they just downloaded the latest Sasha Grey release rather then they actually watched it. I doubt these kinds of people would spend much on porn if their only alternative were to buy it. They might even try sex with real people once in a while. I guess I’m asking, that if whatever illegal downloading were somehow not available, how many more tittles/scenes would actually be purchased? [Link] |
| Drew Black broken crankshaft 8011 Posts 9/99 | Posted - Aug 21 2008 : 7:28PM [Link] |
| hollywood woody Senior Member Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07 | Posted - Aug 21 2008 : 7:52PM We no longer are getting the guys that just turned 18 or 21 to buy dvds. Theirs is a generation of itunes users. The 35 year old customer is now 45 years old, and the 45 year old is now 55 years old, and to be honest with you, they just don't jerk off as much as they used to. I think the strong will survive, the Evil Angels,Jules Jordons, Digital Playground,Vivid and Wicked have their loyal customers. The new guys like Bang Bros. Reality Kings have done well in the last three years. Then there is the brand new guys that have to produce killer content, like Cezar Capone, or we will go down the way of companies now defunct. I have put out 2 releases this month instead of 4, but they both sold really well because of quality. My Neighbors Sex Tapes #3 is without a doubt one of the best gonzo titles to come out in a longtime. It is getting re ordered because of the word of mouth is good on that title. If you buy it, you will love it, if you don't love it, it would be impossible for us to sell you the next one. Todays producers must put more scenes in, give the consumer what they want, and make a better product than is normally out there. We asked everyone on ADT what they wanted, most said we want to see some porn stars fuck average normal guys, so we shot Bangin Average Joe, real guys, not porn guys, fuckin cute porn girls. I know you guys will love it. The only way we can survive is to give you what you want. [Link] |
| hollywood woody Senior Member Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07 | Posted - Aug 21 2008 : 7:54PM I understand that. I just think you can candy coat it any way you want, even justify it, but it is still taking something that doesn't belong to you. Nothing is free, we all know that. [Link] |
| Clam Digger Deactivated User Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good. 2268 Posts 1/05 | Posted - Aug 21 2008 : 8:20PM The free porn that you reference are on sites like youporn, where there is a whole lot of free, poorly copied old trailers available? I think they go out of the way to make it appear that something illegal is going on just to add to the allure. I confess that I have downloaded a few complete DVD's from one or two torrent sites. I didn't watch them much as I wound the FF deficient and with no chapter stops - ughggh. I suppose that I could spend some time correcting those problems, but who has the time to become a video editor? I think its the distributors that are really the group in danger of extinction (that is the good old bricks and mortar guys). The interesting company to watch, as far as my limited knowledge is concerned, would be Evil Angel. Aren't they both a distributor and a production company? There are many here who know the answers better then I do...I'm curious.. Edited by - Clam Digger on 8/21/2008 8:22:35 PM [Link] |
| Walter All-Star Member 1445 Posts 3/05 | Posted - Aug 21 2008 : 8:33PM With respect to buying DVDs vs. stealing them, 1. Stealing DVDs is wrong. 2. I have the tendency to be a collector of them, as Ramsey has often mentioned he is. 3. I support things I like; by supporting certain people's livelihoods by buying DVDs, I feel like I am casting an economic vote of approval. For example, Blow Me Sandwich is one of my favorite series; I have bought the first 11 volumes and will most likely buy the most recent one soon. The company and performers have made money from me and I will hope that they continue the series and continue to make money from me. 4. The quality of DVDs is likely to surpass the quality of many of the files commonly shared on the internet. I realize that exact copies are probably available for pirates, but these are likely to be inconvenient. Of course, people can probably find ways around this if they are clever, but I am speaking as a person who does not know much about stealing. Admittedly,this reason may not be well informed. Anyway... 5. Porn is not that expensive. With respect to buying DVDs vs. watching porn on the internet, 1. Internet porn is often lower quality than DVD porn, although the gap seems to be narrowing. 2. As above, I have the tendency to be a collector of them, as Ramsey has often mentioned he is. 3. Some porn niches that I like are not adequately represented on the internet at an attractive price. POV porn is one example. I am currently subscribed to one internet porn site: Brazzers. I watch it a lot and it has probably resulted in my buying fewer DVDs. However, I still buy some DVDs for the reasons listed above. Some decent DVDs can be found for rock bottom prices these days. [Link] |
| Clam Digger Deactivated User Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good. 2268 Posts 1/05 | Posted - Aug 21 2008 : 8:58PM Bazzers, who also seems to sponsor a lot of these free porn sites, using them much like lost leaders to draw eyeballs back to them, seems to be the Walmart of porn these days. The thread's OP posed a question that seems very central to the core of the porn business. Is it that the porn industry, as it has been organized from the beginning, dying off? Is it that there is very little that hasn't been done before and therefore, there isn't much point to buying it? Or is it because of all of this god awful piracy things are really going to hell in a hand basket? [Link] |
| Mike Quasar Zero Tolerance Reluctant pornographer 1765 Posts 7/01 | Posted - Aug 21 2008 : 9:42PM [Link] |
| Bob All-Star Member 5516 Posts 3/03 | Posted - Aug 21 2008 : 11:58PM Is the recognition of distinctions and subtleties too taxing for you? --------------------------- Edited by - bob on 8/22/2008 12:01:47 AM [Link] |
| Flash Golden Age Classic 11018 Posts 5/01 | Posted - Aug 22 2008 : 12:21AM It's probably a hard number to get accurate. Especially as I've bought some classic Caballero and Hollywood Video titles for what I used to spend on a rental. So some rentals have become purchases, especially for those who buy on the internet since the prices are much cheaper than the brick and mortar stores. [Link] |
| Flash Golden Age Classic 11018 Posts 5/01 | Posted - Aug 22 2008 : 12:26AM [Link] |
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