Defend Our Porn? That's taking the offense I'm really comfortable with paying a modest monthly fee and having access to download from a large archive of clips ... which, taking it scene by scene, is fast and easy. That works for me better than almost anything, especially since now I can run files from my hard drive right into the flatscreen. Edited by - skronker on 8/25/2008 3:45:46 PM
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NewRomancer Deactivated User
under THEIR avatar 738 Posts 7/08
Posted - Aug 25 2008 : 4:01PM
"People must learn that they must PAY for porn on the net." The only problem I have with that is the very basic fundamental purpose of The Net.... It's very nature means that someone will ALWAYS find a way to copy what they want for free, and share it and there is literally NOTHING that can ever be done to effectively stop them. Trying to stop it is a worthless endeavour. Were I a Porn Producer (Oh... here we go....) I would adopt the best strategies for attracting, keeping and rewarding internet customers I could find/come up with and accept that a percentage of the population is going to get my stuff for free and there's not a damn thing I can do to stop them short of halting production completely... Others can sit back and wring their hands and cry that it's wrong, or that it's illegal, or that it's immoral but their angst falls only on deaf ears... There are people who will always find a way, and people who will not stop. Better to focus on the people who support the biz, no?
The fundamental purpose of the net is the exchange of information and not the exchange of stolen goods. A whole generation has grown up without learning this. Still I haven't given up hope that guys like Haze and Brian will learn it someday.
What all of you are failing to recognize is that plenty of people are making tons of money on the internet with porn movies. Problem is, many of those people aren't the people who own the copyrights on the adult content. So if you think that a porn studio isn't entitled to make money from their work, then how can you justify the tube sites making millions by selling ad space, while showing clips they don't own? I say if you think there's nothing wrong with tube sites monetizing content that they don't own...then put your money where your mouth is: Go into work, tell them your name is now "Nate Glass" and have your check deposited into MY checking account. This is pretty much what the tube sites are doing right now to everyone's content. But you shouldn't have a problem with signing your check over to me, because you just work "for the love of it", and besides the idea of being financially compensated for YOUR work is an outdated business model according to many of the posters here.
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NewRomancer Deactivated User
under THEIR avatar 738 Posts 7/08
Posted - Aug 26 2008 : 12:18PM
"The fundamental purpose of the net is the exchange of information and not the exchange of stolen goods." But on the net EVERYTHING is just information... No matter how much you rail against it.
Yeah. I hate it when a web site offers a "trial period" for free or for $3.99 or something and then charges you for a month anyway. I've had that happen more than a couple of times and is the main reason I don't do trial periods anymore. It would be a great way to preview a site if it worked the way they say it does. But when you get charged for a full month or if you can't cancel or whatever, that's going to come off as underhanded even if it was just a mistake.
I type "Andi Anderson" into a Google search. I get a page full of torrent sites w/free illiegal down loads. I don't see a SINGLE link to a Jules Jordan or Vouyer Media paysite or VOD page. Maybe the companies need to be more aggressive about competing with "free" where it really matters: at the root level. Search optimizing could help a lot.
I don't do trial memberships anymore because like you said either they charge you for full anyway even if you cancel in time or you get limited access to the site and you have to join for a full membershp to get full access to the site.
I don't mind as long as it's a good representation of what's on the site. I mean we can't reasonably expect them to give us full access to as much of their site as we can download in 3 days. You could probably down everything on some sites in 3 days if you have a reasonably fast connection. The point is that they need to give us a decent idea of what we should expect to get for our money if we join. Those who own the sites need to know that while the sample stuff should be high quality, it's deceptive if the samples are excellent and the rest of their content is mediocre. They should pick stuff that accurately represents the majority of their content. Often, they seem to show samples of their best stuff but when you join you find the rest is mostly junk. Porn producers need to understand that most porn customers are either really savvy or they will get really savvy in a short period of time. People will not continue to take chances with their money if they feel they're continually getting ripped off. There is no other way to run a business other than honest and straightforward if you expect to be successful over the long-term. When porn customers get ripped off, it hurts the whole industry. There's really no way to stop piracy but they can hang on to customers who understand that porn costs money to make it. They can hold on to these customers if they don't lower their standards or rip them off. Edited by - randomprecision on 8/26/2008 3:11:23 PM
Porno movies, sexy videos, xxx. Adult DVD Talk at your service. 6409 Posts 11/99
Posted - Aug 26 2008 : 3:32PM
It's not just search engine optimizing. Porn companies spend tons of money with google on advertising. The industry should be complaining loudly to google about their promotion of illegal downloads - and withhold the advertising dollars if google doesn't listen.
I expect "trial period" to be exactly what it says. Full total complete unrestricted site access, for a short period of time. I see nothing wrong with downing everything in 3 days. If the site has a problem with that, then don't offer the trial period. Or set the trial price based on that assumption. Or set daily download limits. The "hook" to get customers to renew their subscription should be newly-added content on a frequent basis and/or sheer volume of content such that it cannot possibly be downloaded within 3days.
Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07
Posted - Aug 26 2008 : 7:23PM
It is stealing, plain and simple. And some of us have always paid for media, like me, and when someone, like you doesn't pay, the prices get raised and the rest of us end up paying for what you take for "free". Why is it ok to steal it online when it's not ok to walk into a store and steal it? That is a rhetorical question..
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conquistador Deactivated User
Hellhamster. 2947 Posts 10/03
Posted - Aug 26 2008 : 7:25PM
^^^ @Howard: I am guessing age differences might play into this...
Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07
Posted - Aug 26 2008 : 7:30PM
Great Nate! Nate if you can get 100 people to do that, I think you will be set. Then you can open your own porn company and produce stuff they can steal too.
Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07
Posted - Aug 26 2008 : 7:40PM
I taught my kids not to steal, they don't steal. My daughter is 18 and knows better than to ever download anything from a site that offers regular hollywood movies or music for free. You should see my itunes bill every month, it is ridiculous, but I pay it, and gladly. When I was a kid, oh no....here goes the old guy routine....I bought every good rock album that came out, then cassettes, then cds, I never stole them from the store, the internet is one big catalog mail order store. Because it is up there for free illegally, doesn't mean I have to be a part of it. Morally wrong, legally wrong, just wrong all the way around.
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conquistador Deactivated User
Hellhamster. 2947 Posts 10/03
Posted - Aug 26 2008 : 7:49PM
@howard: I sent you an email. I am not advocating theft but from reading this thread all the way through you will notice a huge difference in how people feel about stealing adult movies and their ages. I am not sure it would apparent to everyone though, I started working at a porno shop at age 18 and started posting here a few years later. Edited by - conquistador on 8/26/2008 7:50:21 PM
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Haze Deactivated User
769 Posts 7/04
Posted - Aug 26 2008 : 9:15PM
unfortunantely i stopped reading after this part. so umm pic?
#SDNY he's all yours. -- Michael Steele 5110 Posts 3/03
Posted - Aug 26 2008 : 10:09PM
There is absolutely no case to be made that this is correct. If someone who does not, and never has, participated in the retail porn market obtains an unauthorized copy of a movie via the internet, it has no effect on either the supply of, or the demand for, the movie, and there should be no effect on the price of the movie. It's not a lost sale; it's not a unit of inventory that goes missing; it isn't anything.Several people in this thread, and in other threads on ADT, have attempted to discuss this issue in a thoughtful manner. In general, however, industry members stubbornly and irrationally cling to the "plain and simple" fallacy that there is no meaningful difference between the actual theft of a physical unit of inventory that someone has paid to produce and someone else has paid to stock, versus the obtaining of an unauthorized electronic copy of the movie in a manner which does not, even for an instant, deprive the movie owner of anything. It's an intellectually indefensible position; it's a position which clearly is not shared by an ever-growing portion of the population; and most importantly, it's a position which is preventing the industry from coming to grips with, and reacting creatively and productively to, the real-world attitudes of the people to whom they would like to be selling their products. Put another way: stomping your feet and calling people who haven't taken anything from you "thieves" isn't a good way to turn said people into customers.
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Clam Digger Deactivated User
Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good. 2268 Posts 1/05
Posted - Aug 26 2008 : 10:31PM
You can complain all you want about, but the fact remains it is going to continue...To survive the business model must change.
There are only a handful of porn companies who have stood up to defend their content against illegal infringement. Tricia and her husband are one and I know of a few others. But I think it's quite telling when there are only a few who do while most just turn a blind eye towards it. Like with most laws, until theres teeth in it or the class-actions lawsuits start hitting the service providers en masse, nothing will really change. Those who rationalize it will just take what they want, a character trait that likely carries over into other parts of their lives as well. Those who believe in contributing for the effort will continue to pay for it.
Maybe I've just been lucky, but I've thus far subscribed to at least 2 dozen different porn websites. In most cases, I've only held onto the sub for a month. I don't do trial memberships as I read reviews first and most point out the handicapped nature of trial subs. But I cancel using the normal routes and I've NEVER been charged again once my expiration date expires. This has been the case whether they use CCBill or any number of other payment processors. I'm not arguing the horror stories, but it just surprises me as it's never happened to me.
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MikeSouth Deactivated User
511 Posts 11/02
Posted - Aug 27 2008 : 12:01AM
OK y'all this is retarded the adult industry is less than a fraction of a fraction of a percent of googles revenue. Google isnt at all concerned about the page rank that an adult site with stolen content may or may not get, what's far far more important is how their page rank mechanism works on NON ADULT sites and the truth is....It works damn well. It is far more likely that google would simply de-index adult sites than it is that they would respond to any industry pressure
Well, effectively Google are promoting stolen content and that applies to non adult sites too. Considering that Google can yank your page ranking for something like duplicate content (which need not be stolen necessarily) it seems contradictory that stolen content does not get penalized. So really, it's not "retarded" to bring it up.
Porno movies, sexy videos, xxx. Adult DVD Talk at your service. 6409 Posts 11/99
Posted - Aug 27 2008 : 8:55AM
Bullshit. Just using their keyword tools you can see that adult searches are much much larger than a fraction of a fraction of a percent. They charge much more for adult keywords. There is no way the revenue is that insignificant.
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Clam Digger Deactivated User
Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good. 2268 Posts 1/05
Posted - Aug 27 2008 : 10:26AM
Even so Steph, I doubt it ever will be possible for "the industry" to speak with any kind of single voice about anything. Edited by - Clam Digger on 8/27/2008 10:40:33 AM
How do you know that the thief wouldn't have bought a copy if he had known that he wouldn't get away with stealing? Not every download results in a not sold unit. That's probably true. But somebody with a full hard drive of pirated porn buys less porn. And with every GB more he becomes more reluctant to pay for porn. That's a fact.There is no meaningful difference. Okay you saved them the DVD reproduction costs. But producing and stocking the physical unit is the smallest part of the overall costs. The intellectual property is the point not the disc or the warehouse. And if you download an unauthorized electronic copy you steal intellectual property. Period.And that's the root of the downfall of the entertainment industry in general. Rationalize your stealing as much as you want. Someday you will wake up and see that there is no new stuff on the net you want to steal because the companies stopped producing new quality stuff.
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Haze Deactivated User
769 Posts 7/04
Posted - Aug 27 2008 : 11:09AM
Some reason I think the porn industry needs google moe than google needs the porn industry.
Take a look at [ invalid url ] in the Freeones review forum. It is full of people claiming to have been cheated or defrauded by the Bangbros website. If even half of this stuff is true, then they deserve to go bust.
I agree. Actually there isn't any "the industry". There are only a couple of companies that exploit ruthlessly each others. That's really a problem. The companies must unite if they want to enforce their rights.
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NewRomancer Deactivated User
under THEIR avatar 738 Posts 7/08
Posted - Aug 27 2008 : 11:27AM
"How do you know that the thief wouldn't have bought a copy" How do you know he would have? "because the companies stopped producing new quality stuff" I hope you're not holding your breath on that one... "I think it's quite telling when there are only a few who do while most just turn a blind eye towards it." I'd wager it's because most understand that it's a fight not worth having 1)because there aren't that many people dling porn and 2)No matter what you do, you're NEVER going to stop the few who do. "Those who believe in contributing for the effort will continue to pay for it." Hear hear! "stomping your feet and calling people who haven't taken anything from you "thieves" isn't a good way to turn said people into customers" Sing it loud! "the downfall of the entertainment industry" What downfall??? No such thing...
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MikeSouth Deactivated User
511 Posts 11/02
Posted - Aug 27 2008 : 11:38AM
sorry steph you are suffering from tunnel vision. the facts are the facts. Its like the adult industry whining to Visa Visa could care less we are an infintesmal part of their revenue. Google could drop adult sites all together and not see their net worth drop by a dime. Look at google adsense....a huge revenue generator that adult sites cant eve use. Believe me when I tell you the adult industry would not be happy if it started making noise at google....google would simply de-index adult sites.
The Age of Entitlement will wreak the world asunder. Everyone who wants to sit around and get fatter and stupider and get their porn and music and health care for free, and not lift a fucking finger to help their neighbor, or let someone out in traffic, or help an old lady cross the fucking street, is a measle on the ass of society. Some of us just plain suck, and we're what's wrong with America, the world, and the universe, and may we writhe in the self-inflicted misery of our own existence. Incurvatus in se, motherfuckers! It's enough to make me wish Hell wasn't just a construct we created to make ourselves feel better about doing bad things. I could ramble on, but why bother? I'm as conflicted about this as I am everything else. So you figure it out. I have personal issues to sort out. Issues I won't hash out on a public forum lest I end up as deactivated as the others. I'm moving to Iceland someday. And turning off the Internet. I think computers and everything about them are killing me as slowly and surely as the cigarettes were.
Patience is a virtue, but who wants to be virtuous? 4283 Posts 4/00
Posted - Aug 27 2008 : 1:58PM
Thank you for stating that. The point of people who make entertainment media when we get upset about illegal digital copy sharing is that it costs money to make those productions. Even if you're not stealing a physical copy that cost money to press, package and ship, you're enjoying an entertainment product that cost money, and paying nothing for that priviledge. I don't know if I'm out of touch, but my feeling was that when iTunes made it easy and possible for people to legally download music, a lot of people switched to iTunes and Rhapsody-type sites. Perhaps it's not easy enough yet for people to legally download movies, so they're choosing to do it for free instead. I know there will always be some people who will look for any possible way to not pay for things. That doesn't make what they're doing right. Quasar - What's an ellipsoidal pattern? :)
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Clam Digger Deactivated User
Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good. 2268 Posts 1/05
Posted - Aug 27 2008 : 2:19PM
But that is the problem. I think that that a lot of the stealing is by people to do not perceive the value of it like you, I or most of the members of ADT do. Therefore they don't even think about it as stealing. To them its like the stuff you see at the curb after the garage sales are over.
Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07
Posted - Aug 27 2008 : 4:46PM
how can i turn someone into a customer who is getting my product for free? you are totally wrong about the fact that if you get it free on the internet it doesn't hurt us. this is the main reason dvd sales are down. someone who would have normally bought the dvd simply downloads someone elses copy instead of buying one of their own. Let's turn the tables, say you produce a dvd for $25,000 including advertising, editing, authoring and replication. You pay the crew and talent. You now own said dvd to distribute. Two ways of distribution are, selling the dvd and putting it online for vod. Someone buys a copy, puts it up on limewire or whatever and it gets downloaded 25,000 times a week, how can you not see the fact that you are getting ripped off by the people that are downloading for free? It is not free publicity, it is stealing. I don't need that kind of exposure, Charlie Manson had a lot of exposure, see where it got him. I would rather, call me crazy, be paid for the dvd or vod than give it away, not by my choice, to thousands of people.
That's really key... I read in Numéro that some big record company offered CDs to the kids, free... in piles... just come here and pick em up... no one came... I mean, a guy like me would run till my ass fell off, wtf... free records!!! I love the value of bird in hand. But the mentality is changing. If companies want to survive, they have to find a way.
Hollywood , what are the big company's doing to stop this? Is there no way to put something in the code when the scene is compressed so it's not so easy to copy? I have the new version of photoshop and I can only use it on one computer, because it has some kind of protection. I know there will always be someone who can copy it, but at least if it's harder the masses will not have the knowledge. Why is there no R&D on this method? or is there?
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NewRomancer Deactivated User
under THEIR avatar 738 Posts 7/08
Posted - Aug 27 2008 : 5:17PM
Every attempt at copy protection is cracked almost before it is even introduced... And failing that, there's always the analogue hole... A company is better off concentrating on pleasing their customers and keeping them, then waisting time and money trying to stop something that is unstoppable...
Problem is there aren't enough customers left. With a majority of habitual thieves who don't respect intellectual property a modern society which wealth is based on intellectual activity cannot survive. Thinking that only a miner or a steel worker produces values is soo outdated. BTW you haven't commented yet on the answer you requested: "Some 2.3 million people skanked Radiohead’s latest album from BitTorrent sources - during the two months it was legally available for free."
I'm not arguing your reference. But I've subscribed/unsubbed to Bangbros 3 times in the past 3 years. Each time was painless and with no recurring billing after I had cancelled. No issues. I will NEVER re-sub to them again, however, simply because they appear to be run by a bunch of frat-boy chimpanzee's who don't know how to STFU during filming. THAT is the only abuse I've endured with them.
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Clam Digger Deactivated User
Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good. 2268 Posts 1/05
What about the fact that 1.2 million people chose to PAY to download In Rainbows on it's release day. When the band made it available for free! Or that three months later, the debut of the physical cd topped the Billboard album charts. Radiohead's experiment was not a failure and they are in no way suffering from the effects of file sharing. It was a shrewd marketing tactic to generate positive buzz. The real forward thinking artist, however, on this issue is definitely Trent Reznor. One need only look at the NIN website to see the right way to treat the consumer/fan. An adult company needs to take a cue from that guy.
Lonborg wrote:And furthermore, what about the fact that musicians get ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in royalties from CD sales through the record labels. (Read about Divinyls or Courtney Love if you want to know how this works.) Radiohead are probably at least a million dollars in front by releasing their music for free on the net. This is what I mean about adjusting to the new medium. You can yell at the tide not to roll in, until it drowns you, or you can figure out how to ride the wave. If you pass up the chance of a million dollars in revenue, just to make sure that nobody gets anything for free, that is called "cutting off your nose to spite your face." Edited by - licker on 8/28/2008 1:22:35 AM
Easy. They do it themselves. Back in the nineties I saw some images from a site called "ALS Scan" which were posted on usenet. I was impressed with the quality and the beautiful girls, so I went looking for the website. A site I had NEVER HEARD OF. When I found the site, I was even more impressed. I gave them my credit card number and bought movies from them by mail order. I paid for a subscription to their site so I could download more of their images. Do you really think that out of all the millions of men who saw those images, I was the only one to hand over any money? More than ten years later, their material still gets broadcast around the net illegally. It always has, and guess what. Their company is a HUGE SUCCESS. They have hired hundreds of top models. They are making so much money they can fly to exotic locations around the world and shoot in fancy, expensive resort villas. Do you believe they would have made so much money if no-one had ever heard of them? Do you really think all the money that flowed in to their company after their pictures were distributed has "hurt" them? The situation is not as simple as you might think.
Introducing Lady LorReign
Posted - Aug 25 2008 : 3:45PM
