As far as stores go I doubt brick and mortar stores are going to go anywhere in the near future. As far as distributors go, I can see the larger companies starting to do their own distribution to stores but smaller companies I think are going to need some sort of distributor for their DVDs as otherwise their product could get completely missed. The scope and design may change but I don't see the need going away. The same goes for the mainstream side, look how many small companies use RykoDisc as a distributor.
I guess it's a matter of scale. I buy from some small niche companies such as JBvideo (legs fetish) and KandiPeach (amateur hardcore), whose main presence is website. Brick and mortar stores rarely carry these because they are not "popular" enough to generate heavy rentals. If anything, as the economics gets squeezed, I think the brick and mortar stores will become more mainstrean and focus on the top-selling high-profile studios/titles and not take a chance on the smaller studios whose product is less well-known.
For me it is, I'm not rich. Even though I import and get away ok it's no where near what you pay in the US with free 24h delivery and stuff like that. And local distributors of imports have insane prices, probably 50% mark-up and very poor availability of titles. Like Clamdigger I find the hassle downloading torrents, burning discs etc, not worth it, I rather watch old stuff from my moderate DVD collection than being annoyed by technicalities (and not even the real DVDs are completely free from this, so downloading an illegal copy to see how the movie is shot is great, otherwise I only stick to those directors and studios consistently meeting my quality standards, not taking the chance of checking out something new (and I can't rent, unless I guess via online download which I don't want to, and it's not the DVD anyways so...)).
I understand the frustration. It works the same for us in the United States coming the other way. For instance, I'm interested in this title but it's over $35.00 USD after conversion and this title but it's $50.00 USD after conversion. The prices have slowed me down on picking them up. If it makes you feel better I don't know of anyone giving free 24 hour delivery. For instance ADE's free delivery takes about 7 days on average to get to me, not that I'm complaining, free delivery is great.
By the way, if anyone in the industry is looking for ideas on how to improve sales you might want to think of a way to make it possible to rent your titles using [ invalid url ]. I don't like watching movies on my computer but this would allow for a downloaded rental to be watched on my television.
That's because Orgazmik is way overpriced like most Swiss stores. A quick Google check found other places in Austria or Germany where you could get "The Simple Sex" for as low as 16 Euros. Don't know if these stores ship to the States though.
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Clam Digger Deactivated User
Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good. 2268 Posts 1/05
Posted - Aug 22 2008 : 11:17AM
I'm not sure where you live, but the only video rental stores in my area is a Block Buster (obviously no porn) and a creepy adult book store that has ridiculously high prices. That's it...The rest are gone. BTW I wouldn't classify them as distributors, but retail outlets.
Are there Slim Jims in heaven? THERE MOST CERTAINLY ARE!!!! 114 Posts 12/07
Posted - Aug 22 2008 : 12:02PM
I think porn is feeding such a basic easily satiated compulsion (masturbation) that people are always gonna' download free stuff regardless of the quality of content or the moral reasonings thereof. Dudes can rub one out to anything. It's like the difference between drinking a fine draught and drinking Natural Light. The end result is the same- drunken stupidness. Whether your watching a fine work from Zero Tolerance (shameless ass-kiss for quasar) or a crappy three-minute Youporn clip, the end result is the same- a handful of yogurt. If this stuff didn't exist, we would close our eyes and tug-off to our imaginations (ah, childhood) because we, as men,are that perverted.
Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07
Posted - Aug 22 2008 : 1:17PM
Everybody is hurting, business isn't what it was. I truly believe if you make exceptional product, you will survive. Sub par product will just not cut it. I think downloading a poor quality porn for 6 hours isn't very attractive. People like to hold the package, look at the pictures, collect it in their library. Evil Angel is both a producer and distributor for other peoples products as far as I know. The reason they are around is because they make a great product. The distributors are in trouble because the retail stores, unless upgraded to a more boutique kind of store are going out of business. You must provide a shopping experience for your customers. Raincoat crowd stores are falling off the face of the earth.
Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. George Carlin 1567 Posts 2/07
Posted - Aug 22 2008 : 1:32PM
Is the recognition of distinctions and subtleties too taxing for you? To be honest with you, yes, I think it is. More so the subtleties. I am clean and sober so the crack is not a factor. Maybe I just see it as more black and white and less of a grey area. I was always taught if you take something that doesn't belong to you, it is stealing. It never depended on what you took or how you took it, if it wasn't mine, I had no business taking it. If I found someones wallet and there was a $100 bill in it, and I returned the wallet but keep the money, I am stealing the money, not returning the wallet the way i found it. I'm sure i could justify keeping the money a thousand ways, but the bottomline is I stole the guys money. I am not a lawyer, and I know there is all kind of legal speak, I just really don't understand it. Just being honest here. I'm just a layman, if a doctor was to explain how he did an operation, I wouldn't understand that either.
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NewRomancer Deactivated User
under THEIR avatar 738 Posts 7/08
Posted - Aug 22 2008 : 1:42PM
"People like to hold the package" THAT aughta be on a t-shirt!! LOL
I've probably seen it somewhere or maybe it was just very cheap 24h delivery. I order by airmail that takes about a week or so to arrive and it costs I think around 15$ (probably more), it's ok though because the low dollar and that it's possible to get away without paying any VAT (if unlucky the customs make me pay +25%, has only happened to me a few times though). If I had a local importer giving me a decent deal on what I want (I don't mind paying a little extra for the convenience) I would prefer buying a movie now and then instead of like 5-10 at once (which equals a pretty large portion of my monthly income and lately I haven't been very motivated to sacrifice it on porn, I need music too). Copyright to me is about protecting one's work against others wanting to sell it as their own, and I'm pretty sure that's why it was created. When the cassette tape came, it was an issue, just look at the warning in South America; a tape/skull. The VCR also sparked some controversy, now the theaters would all go out of business, right? And it couldn't be traced or measured, on Pirate Bay you can see exactly how many people downloaded a torrent. I think the competition is just more fierce today, there's more of everything, more people fighting over the customers. What I would like to see more in porn is physical extra value, meaning posters or just something fun that can't be downloaded. CDs come with booklets, why not make booklets for DVDs? (Why don't DVDs come with booklets? That's a very good question!)
Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good. 2268 Posts 1/05
Posted - Aug 22 2008 : 4:34PM
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sam46 Deactivated User
564 Posts 1/07
Posted - Aug 22 2008 : 4:50PM
Theft penlizes everyone, but is easy enough to control. There has been much debate recently over whether the U.S. should be engaging in the torture of enemy combatants and suspected terrorists. I come down on the side with Sen. John McCain, who maintains that the U.S. should not do this, as it would endanger U.S citizens around the world. But what about torture for those convicted of certain crimes? Many people feel that torturing people as punishment for a crime would violate the Constitution's prohibition on cruel and unusual punishment. However, doesn't something have to both cruel and unusual to meet this criterion? Yes, torture is cruel and it always will be, but if we used it often enough, it wouldn't be all that unusual. I believe the following crimes merit certain amounts of torture: 1) Murder. 2) Actual rape (statutory rape and other types of imaginary and contrived forms of rape wouldn't qualify). 3) Theft of physical property or currency, including the crimes of armed robbery, grand or petty larceny, looting, burglary, identity theft, collection of donations under false pretenses, receiving government aid under false pretenses, and embezzlement. 4) Kidnapping. 5) Scamming, fraud, and bunko. 6) Counterfeiting currency. 7) Assault and battery for any other reason than to protect oneself or others from imminent physical harm, or to prevent imminent property theft. 8) Falsely accusing anyone of any of the above.
Patience is a virtue, but who wants to be virtuous? 4283 Posts 4/00
Posted - Aug 22 2008 : 5:02PM
Thanks for your post. To me, this represents an example of how the internet can benefit both consumers and the people making the product. There's a big difference between sampling clips online and watching full movies that you didn't pay to watch. A lot of companies are going through a lot of work to give viewers tools to sample their product. That way, the viewers can weed through the shitty stuff that barely serves the purpose for masturbating, and instead they can find something that they actually WANT to watch. I use tools like this as often as possible. I watch trailers for movies (both porn and mainstream), I watch sample clips when provided. For music, I listen to the clips provided on places like iTunes and Amazon.com, and if I like the music, I purchase it for download or buy the physical product. I understand that I can't keep a copy of the product (even a digital one) without paying whatever the seller of the product has deemed is the price to pay. Evil Angel is working on a lot of new ways to obtain our scenes and movies. We have individual scenes available for watching on our paysites like our membership network www.evilangelpass.com or our On Demand network www.evilondemand.com. We also have most of our library available on sites like Gamelink, Hotmovies and AEBN. We are looking at the best way to do Burn-to-Own. We are looking at a deal with Vudu. I invite all of you to take a peek at www.evilondemand.com. You can view your first 10 minutes of material for free. Other sites like HotMovies often offer similar free trials. I have to admit that I find the title of this thread offensive. At the same time that consumers are saying that porn isn't good enough quality, and the performers aren't making enough money, too many people are saying that they don't feel a need to pay to watch porn. If you don't think something is good enough for you to feel the need to pay for the priviledge of watching it, then maybe you won't care when companies can no longer afford to hire girls like Jenna Haze, Sasha Grey, Jenny Hendrix, Penny Flame, Dana DeArmond, or any of your favorites.
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MikeSouth Deactivated User
511 Posts 11/02
Posted - Aug 22 2008 : 6:01PM
tricia contact me...yudu is NOT the way to go. I have been doing burn to own for 3 years, I can help
Tricia, I still think there is a tremendous opportunity for a company like Evil to offer scenes on an a la carte basis. No monthly subscriptions or trials. Just go on the website and download a dvd quality file of anything you want for a couple of bucks. More if it's HD. I'm talking the exact convenience of going on iTunes and downloading a whole tv show in just a few minutes(but hopefully in much better quality). There isn't anyone doing this and it baffles me. Right now, illegal downloading is the only game in town if you don't want to pay $30 for a monthly subscription or the same for a dvd that has just one performer you care to see. Piracy is not going away, so companies need to adapt. For many people, downloading is less about being free than it is about convenience! The iTunes model proves this to an extent.
Patience is a virtue, but who wants to be virtuous? 4283 Posts 4/00
Posted - Aug 23 2008 : 2:14AM
Dana - you bet. Lonborg- We're looking at a lot of different options. We'd like to find the best possible compromise between secure rights and the most convenience. We have a brand new general manager who is really great and loves solving problems like this even more than I do, with probably a lot more ability to be able to do it.
I don't understand you. You talk about convenience but you don't want to pay reasonable $30 for a monthly subscription. What do you mean? Do you want to download a killer scene with an it-girl in full scale HD quality for one buck? That's definitely not the way for the industry to survive.
Here is an example of what I'm talking about. I paid $30 last month to subscribe to one of Chris Rolie's sites. The quality of the video files is amazing! His line of sites has full 1080P scenes for download(which I couldn't find elsewhere). Downloaded a bunch and ended up keeping only one. The European models he had were just not my thing. This was the last time I'll ever pay a monthly subscription to this or any other website. Despite the superb video, I felt burned. But if I had grabbed that scene for five bucks or so? It would generate such goodwill that I would go back again & again as the content is updated. As it stands now, they will never see another dime from me. And this is a company doing so many things right. But $30 is too much if you want to see a single performer. DVD is in the same boat. My ideal scenario would be to buy the absolute cream of the crop titles on Blu-ray. Everything else could be individually downloaded on a case by case basis for $2-6(based on resolution size). This is reasonable and in line with the pricing structure for other forms of entertainment.
Thanks for explaining. I see one problem with this business model. The companies will only go for the most popular girls. Because only a scene with a star sells on its own. If a company produces a DVD or shoots content for a site with a monthly subscription new girls and girls in the autumn of their career get scenes too.
I'm not advocating doing away with full movies for those that want them. Or giving exposure to new girls this way. i just want the option to buy an individual scene if that's all I want. The same premise as hearing a song on the radio and then heading to iTunes to buy it. Sometimes you will sample the rest of the album and purchase that as well. But usually it's just that one track that ends up in the library.
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Clam Digger Deactivated User
Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good. 2268 Posts 1/05
Posted - Aug 23 2008 : 8:05PM
Why is it that you seem to demean the brand names of the product ( Jenna Haze, Sasha Grey, Jenny Hendrix, Penny Flame, Dana DeArmond)? Are you saying that there will come a time, because digital piracy of one sort or another, that the only porn that will be produced will be of people nobody has ever heard of or seen? It sounds to me that you are saying that the success of a given porn production has very little to do with the girls who appear in it? Are you saying that having a Jenna,Sasha, Penny, Dana or jenny in a production adds nothing to the sales potential or bottom line of a project? Those girls are not above the rules of the market place. If whatever it is that these girls bring to a scene adds noting to the value of the product then they are over paid and have no promotional value. If however using the likes of Sasha for, example means an increase in profitability then you will continue to use her.
I think that she's implying that companies won't be able to afford big name stars like those. I don't think she's trying to demean anything at all. Just stating facts.
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Clam Digger Deactivated User
Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good. 2268 Posts 1/05
Posted - Aug 23 2008 : 8:54PM
But the question does remain...what is the value add of a star like Sasha or Dana?
Personally I think there is a lot of value to a star like Sasha Grey. I know I more heavily consider buying or renting a movie that she is in because I like her past performances. If I am on edge on a title she, and other stars like her, can push it over to the purchase side and seeing that she is in something can make me interested in a title that I otherwise wouldn't pick up. I'm sure I'm not the only one that feels this way.
She was doing exactly the opposite.If porn becomes less profitable for the production and distribution companies, production budgets will have to go down. Since the costs of physical production are relatively fixed, casting budgets would be the first to be hit. Then, either the top talent would have to cut their rates, or they'd decide that it wasn't worth it and get out of the game.
It's a question of market penetration. Would you rather sell a million downloads at $2 = $2,000,000. or sell a thousand DVDs at $15 = $15,000? Suggested business model for download to own pricing: New releases with big name stars: $5 per scene (Equivalent to selling a DVD for $25) Scenes released 3 months or more ago: $2 per scene (Equivalent to selling a DVD for $10) Back catalog, already remaindered and written off: $1 per scene. (Revenue stream is over for these DVDs, why not let them rake in a few grand extra for you?) This can all be refined and tweaked of course. I'm sure people like Tricia would know much more about where to set the price points than I would. For example, if you want to promote new talent, maybe you set the price for big name star scenes at $6, but you always include an extra scene with a new performer as a bonus.
The important thing is that the transaction has to be easy, fast and secure. Somebody needs to invent "PayPal for grown ups", since PayPal refuses to handle adult products.
Paypal doesnt havent any problem with adult products as long as they are "hard goods" pardon the pun. they just dont do site memberships (they used to) But they are a bunch of cocksuckers. I signed up to take paypal after they had a booth at internext pimping themselves for....site memberships. A month later they just quit doing them...and I lost the paypal members. So FUCK paypal
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Clam Digger Deactivated User
Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good. 2268 Posts 1/05
Posted - Aug 24 2008 : 1:53PM
..at some point then there would be no value in stealing it either. I think serious porners will/would pay ($ undetrmined) some amount to see Sasha, Penny, Sunny or what ever A-lister name you wish to provide as opposed to getting to see a coked out looking crack whore being 3-p'd by parolees for nothing. That's face it most of the stuff being produced is junk and there is just too much of it.
I hate to be a killjoy here but I think most of the people discussing this are over, say, 25. And those 25 and under are going to decide where the adult industry goes. Some of us have never paid for ANY (or very little) media product. Don't take this the wrong way but those who are big fans of Jenna Jameson, Jenna Haze, Dana DeArmond, etc. tend to be older consumers. They have the disposable income to purchase the DVD's, subscribe to the sites, etc. Uhh...Evil Angel? Did they put out "The Fashionistas?" That's a great piece of art. VERY well made. HOWEVER, I'm not sure if it's connecting at all with younger adult consumers. The Wicked stuff. The Vivid stuff. None of it. And there's nothing you can really do about it. It's ironic that now that the era has arrived (in my opinion) when women are almost equal to men in terms of viewing adult material and not being ashamed about it, fresh, creative adult material may be dying. And I'm sure those in the adult industry SEE young men and women attend the conventions, actress DVD signings, appearances, etc. But that's a biased sample. I'm sorry if that offends everyone but it's far worse in the music industry. No one buys "albums" anymore. Just Flo Rida, Rhianna and Lil Wayne singles and mix tapes. Brian
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Clam Digger Deactivated User
Many a man fails as an original thinker simply because his memory is too good. 2268 Posts 1/05
Posted - Aug 24 2008 : 3:55PM
Maybe this could be a thread of it's own, but what is the porn business like in Japan with their "IDOLS"? Are they having the same problems?
Since when? Whenever I would buy DVDs or magazines on eBay 99% of the time the sellers said they couldn't do PayPal because if PayPal found out a transaction was used for adult material, both the seller's AND buyer's accounts would be shut down. The few that did asked that the buyer not indicate that it was for an eBay sale. Unless that policy has changed?
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MikeSouth Deactivated User
511 Posts 11/02
Posted - Aug 24 2008 : 4:53PM
I know lots of people on paypal selling hard goods every day. why not ask paypal?
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MikeSouth Deactivated User
511 Posts 11/02
Posted - Aug 24 2008 : 4:57PM
And DS yer right... prechecked cross sells are just the latest way to fuck the consumer. Remember back when Vivid did a website promotion where you got 2 days for 2.99 or something ridiculous, then made it impossible to cancel and after 2 days billed you 99.00 a month? Now given that why would the consumer feel any reason to play fair with vivids content? Im not defending piracy but I am pointing out that as an industry we broiught a lot of it on ourselves.
Tricia, I would probably be a big customer for download to burn. Don't forget us mac-users. As a reviewer it would help me too. I generally don't finish DVD's that I don't like, so I start a lot more reviews than I finish. Being able to sample would help me decide what I want to write full reviews on without paying for a rental or requesting a screener.
I completely disagree. I would imagine that most porn is purchased by video-rental stores, and they rent the disk for $2-$5. Downloading at $1/scene would take the middle-man out, and would probably represent a boon to the producers iTunes didn't kill the music industry, all it did was prevent huge numbers of people from using Limewire and other Gnutella clients. Inexpensive, easy to download porn, that can be displayed on regular TV's, will mean millions of people never even hear of BitTorrent.
Well I haven't bought anything adult off eBay for a while so I went and checked, and this is what it says in their "Mature Audience" policy: Important: PayPal may not be used to pay for any item listed in eBay’s Mature Audiences category. Here's the link: http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/mature-audiences.html Maybe PayPal itself lets you pay for adult material if you buy it somewhere other than eBay, I haven't checked that end of it.
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Haze Deactivated User
769 Posts 7/04
Posted - Aug 24 2008 : 7:59PM
Remember when porn ad to adapt to VHS and it killed porn theaters? Well I think the internet is killing DVD via youtube the only difference is porn is such mass produced unlike studio films that there's such an abundance of porn its hard to regulate. Plus porn companies go under all the time. Its not like (most) people want to invest a lot of time and money in porn. Its purpose is to titillate then you jerk it, take a shower, and go about your day. Porn stars are a commodity but some are worth more than others. I firmly believe this. I feel the same way about the music and book industries.
Patience is a virtue, but who wants to be virtuous? 4283 Posts 4/00
Posted - Aug 25 2008 : 3:40PM
Flash and Bob understood me. I was being a little sarcastic. I was implying that maybe when companies can't afford to hire good girls like the ones that I listed, and all that's available for free online is no-name porn, porn viewers will finally have to search out quality porn that God forbid they have to pay for. At a Bondage Ball this summer that Evil Angel sponsored, we had a small space where we were selling DVDs and merchandise. Sarah Doom is an AWESOME sales chick. I'm way too timid, but she's the perfect balance between not giving up too easy, but not being annoying. Anyway, there was this chick who was kind of drunk at the end of the night. Sarah walked past her and asked if the girl's group wanted to buy any of the Defend Our Porn DVD for $20 (a one-night only special to attendees of the Bondage Ball). The girl started laughing and said "Buy porn? Why? I watch it for free online. Why would I pay for it?" Let's just say that girl is REALLY lucky that I was wearing stiletto heels and an expensive tight latex outfit that I didn't want to ruin, because I had downed a few drinks by that point, and I wanted to punch her so bad.
Introducing Dallas Rea
Posted - Aug 22 2008 : 12:29AM
