I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Mar 12 2016 : 5:53PM
If someone wants to shoot the things you described and they can find performers who share their fetish, then I wouldn't start a campaign to ban or censor their work if that's what you're asking. Psycho Thrillers depicts rape, murder, and necrophilia. That's the entire site. Do you want it banned? Edited by - misspornUSA on 3/12/2016 7:40:52 PM
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Mar 12 2016 : 5:56PM
Ashley said: "The racism of a lot of IR scenes is what markets it and that’s why it’s so popular. I wanted to do my movie in a way that didn’t feed into it." Ashley said: "The way that pornography portrays race and the importance of race trickles down to everything in society. It’s really influential. If more people would take the responsibility of taking that marketing tool away. People are still going to jerk off to it thinking whatever they want to think but we don’t have to perpetuate the certain stereotype of bigotry as pornographers. " No condemnation? Are the words "racism" and "bigotry" neutral?
Ryan Madison performed something like that at Pornfidelity with Skin Diamond, it raised hell. Another point could be that mixed relationships are more common and accepted today, part of the old racial role play or even the steed's Monster play was used as an excuse to put a reason for the little white girl to fuck black guys ,she must obviously been forced by criminal, fooled because she's an idiot or owned by monsters otherwise no white female would ever fuck a black guy , at least in the eyes of many Today this is played out , what we are really witnessing is IR porn becoming regular more and more, white girls fucking black men on their own with no need of dumb excuses to fake a reason to justify an IR BM/WM scene. Mixed sex is becoming less and less taboo and people seek out regular scene, remember vanilla and mild gonzo porn outsell hard gonzo and circus porn. Also do not forget the increasing number of female porn consumers , it is said a good part of blacked members are females , that means there's a good number of white females actually fantasying on black men , in a tender and romantic way. I don't think it's just PC
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Mar 12 2016 : 6:03PM
That sounds interesting. I'll definitely put it on my reading list.As someone in the community, I also agree that the response what a bit overboard, especially with how beloved "The Story of O" (I'm glad you mentioned) is by so many of us. No way in hell is "50 Shades" less dangerous than "The Story of O." If anything I think that "50 Shades" provided a great educational experience. I don't doubt that it misled some naïve people, but readers/viewers who really wanted to know more were able to access those resources online. EDIT: I intended to write that "'50 Shades' provided a great educational opportunity", NOT a great educational experience. Edited by - misspornUSA on 6/6/2016 2:51:57 PM
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Mar 12 2016 : 6:20PM
My ex-husband is black. Most of my boyfriends and male lovers have been black. I'm white. Now, the number of times I've had black women come at me in clubs, at picnics, and even on the goddamn street when they see that I'm with one of "their" men is too high for me to estimate. Maybe my experience is exceptional, but aside from that I've read/heard numerous black intellectuals, activists, and other black figures speak negatively about black men having relationships with white women. I'm not saying that they're the majority, or even that they represent half of the black community, but those who think like them do appear to make up at least a substantial portion of the black community.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Mar 12 2016 : 6:26PM
I definitely didn't mean to imply that the response to interracial relationships from both communities is equal. Edited by - misspornUSA on 3/12/2016 6:28:06 PM
First scene EVER? That's even worse. Sometimes I think the ravenous porn fiends out there are too eager to see a new girl "get rekt" and this is something I am always leery of. I like welcoming new girls as much as the next porn junkie. I'm all about variety, and pretty much everyone is excited about new girls. But I don't want to see a girl's first IR be with the biggest studs out there possible, let alone her first scene ever. Unless she's truly a freakish size queen and has practiced making pringles can sized dildos disappear with ease... As for KLK, just peep the 3 tweets right before that one you linked https://twitter.com/KagneyNecessary/status/679882937484062720 https://twitter.com/KagneyNecessary/status/679884044734185472 https://twitter.com/KagneyNecessary/status/679877375270776833 and these ones a little older https://twitter.com/KagneyNecessary/status/676552742123405312 https://twitter.com/KagneyNecessary/status/676552114097668096 You get the idea lol
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Mar 12 2016 : 7:16PM
TastyFilthyGirlStinkHoles asks "Would any of you be comfortable"? Reading that I wonder "Who cares?" My personal discomfort is my personal discomfort. Should my discomfort with the depiction of this or that fetish prevent the depiction of that fetish? Should your's? Should TastyFilthyGirlStinkHoles'?
No one is calling for all of that. Did you see anyone here saying we want black males depicted solely that way?No one here is promoting hatred. That there are some hateful people out there who will use anything as an excuse to hate does not mean we have to prevent everything from existing.That is all your projection/inference. You cannot attribute those notions to anyone else here.How can you state that it so negatively impacts a whole race when it doesn't even negatively impact an individual? The individuals engaging in these portrayals from time to time seem to have a hell of a lot of fun doing it. It doesn't mean these instances must represent who they really are all the time, much less who a whole race of billions of people are.As a matter of fact, there are many examples of Nazi and KKK themed porn out there. I know the UK-based company Harmony has done more than a few scenes with Nazi uniforms. I think they're outstanding, but nevermind my own biased subjective take on it. Consider for a fact how ironic it is that the UK would produce porn with Nazis in it, when the UK was subjected to blitzkrieg raids by the Nazi air force. You know, not everything has to be interpreted in the worst possible way. Just because they choose to explore really taboo and freaky themes doesn't mean they hate anyone or intend to cause emotional trauma to anyone. In a way, I've always looked at it like exorcising painful demons. It can be cathartic. Maybe that's too rich for you to believe, but there is serious psychological benefit to cathartic exploration. It doesn't mean anyone needs to feel forced to confront these things if they are not comfortable with it either. But that's the point. This is porn. You don't need to explore every porno out there. Some people are actually into the inflicting of actual physical pain, and they find that exhilarating, maybe cathartic, maybe both. Look, your argument is basically like telling people who are into BDSM they are "wrong" to enjoy it and how it oppresses everyone by reducing them to punching bags or abused slaves. Can't you just let people enjoy their kinks without judging them and casting sweeping aspersions about millions or billions of people? Take your politics out of it. If some people's fantasies don't suit your personal identity politics, then you don't have to ride along with them.Probably because dope-dealers are way more sympathetic and compelling characters, but most importantly, dope dealers are not ideologically monolithic. Their backgrounds are as diverse as humanity at large. Some of them are ruthless and predatory. Some of them are decent people you know. Why are you making that comparison? KKK are not decent and sympathetic, and they do cling to a unifying ideology of hatred.Don't they? Bro, there's all kinds of twisted fantasies people have out there and they would love to see those portrayed in live action porn. Just look at the title and jacket art of Kanye West's album "My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy." That just scratches the surface of what goes on in people's minds.SMH it's not about our personal comfort with those things. Personally no, the scenario you describe does not appeal to me comfortably. But I still have to respect the rights of people who are into that type of scenario. As long as they keep fantasy separate and don't start actually lynching people. How many times have I reiterated, as long as all parties involved are consenting, then they should be able to roleplay however they please. And there's worse stuff out there, believe me. Look up Fansadox/Dofantasy. It's so horrific to me it makes me sick, and that's not easy to do.I'm sure people have those fantasies. Not every fantasy is going to appeal to everyone. I would never wish for every other person's fantasies to adhere to mine. How could that be fair?You're not grasping the part where the black male performers themselves enjoy playing these roles from time to time. Don't you think Denzel had fun playing his role in Training Day? Don't you think NWA and Snoop Dogg and Ice-T had fun with their personas as gangstas who smoked their foes and dicked their hoes? So for the umpteenth time, I maintain that as long as the participating performers are cool with the themes and treatment, then why not let them do it? No one wants people to be forced to do something they don't want to do or that they find degrading or objectionable. I strongly believe that all involved parties be notified ahead of time what their projects will entail, and that's simply how professionals operate in entertainment. Unless you want to get a bad reputation, which seems to have happened with James Deen, you better make sure your coworkers or employees have fair notice. Active engagement with talent should actually be highly encouraged, because that's what gets people excited about a project and feeling creative. That's how people brainstorm and come up with new ideas to improve a concept.There isn't a single person here who is calling for that without the approval of the involved parties. No director in their right mind would tell an actor to use that language toward another actor out of the blue. It has to go through a process called script approval. If a actor doesn't want to hear that language used towards them, they certainly do not have to tolerate it, and anyone who engages in that against another persons will is going to face consequences. I can't imagine that being tolerated in any industry. People get fired for that type of disrespect.
Zoe came into the industry as a Speigler girl, so she had someone who was looking out for her. If I remember the story correctly, he actually showed her a picture of Shorty (and his whole package) and asked her again if she was sure that she wanted to make that her first scene, and her response was that she could handle it. She wasn't thrown to the wolves, she actually went in and challenged the wolf herself. Edited by - whatsatelephonebill on 3/12/2016 9:19:14 PM
See, that's not so bad. Agents who are concerned about their reputation, indeed their very livelihood, do well to make sure everyone is happy with what they are getting into.
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TastyFilthyGirlStinkHoles Deactivated User
It just looks and feels so fucking good! 142 Posts 3/16
Posted - Mar 12 2016 : 9:08PM
I think so. I simply can't understand why someone would want to hear the "N" word being thrown around on a porn set. I cant understand why someone would want black people being portrayed in a negative stereotype, instead of appreciating the forward looking progress being made in IR. They want to drag it back. I know some of them say "I wouldn't mind a Nazi-themed porn studio or I wouldn't protest a KKK-themed studio" but the reality is, there are no popular widely consumed studio's that produce such films in reality. There just isn't. So they don't really have to deal with a popular or mainstream collection of porn producers making KKK-themed videos or Nazi-on-Jew themed videos. And therefore, talk remains incredibly cheap They claim they would not protest such "sensitive" videos, but they don't really have to, do they?. These niche's are so special-interest and small, they are barely significant. Where's there really is IR porn showing a monstrous black male who is a combination of a dope-dealer and an ape. And an innocent little white female who gets duped, or tricked, kidnapped or in some way forced to have sex with the black drug dealing male, because what other reason would a dainty white innocent suburban angel have to fuck a black male right?. total garbage being put out there to reinforce tightly protected racial stereotypes. Then they say "its all fun and game" Until I see a real mainstream profit-seeking porn studio come out with a Sieg Heil Nazi swastika saluting white performer who is roughing up some dainty Jewish female - I can't agree its just "fun and games" Edited by - TastyFilthyGirlStinkHoles on 3/12/2016 9:12:11 PM
The thing is, there is no way that other types of IR porn would be allowed to exist the way it does in that Black/White dynamic. Could anyone imagine there being films were guys were calling Asians gook or chink? Or Jewish performers being called kike?? IR as it is/was presently filmed by many companied plays to the worst of stereotypes and those stereotypes are deep-seated and based on fear and a perceived sexual power dynamic.
Ask Shane Diesel, Boz, Richard Mann, etc. Do you understand why some people like to go on dates dressed up in giant plush pony costumes? I don't. I imagine it gets hot in there.
It just looks and feels so fucking good! 142 Posts 3/16
Posted - Mar 12 2016 : 9:22PM
When some studios start producing Nazi-on-Jew fantasies and White KKK clansmen-on-black female porn, I will subside my disdain for the topic at hand. Until that time, its obviously deep-seated racial stereotyping. Which no other group could get away with in the mainstream. quite obviously.Anytime you're ready to answer my questions or deal with the issues I have presented. I'll be ready and waiting. Whenever you're ready...deflecting doesn't help. Edited by - TastyFilthyGirlStinkHoles on 3/12/2016 9:24:45 PM
If those groups had the same history as blacks in America, yes. I absolutely could imagine that. Interestingly, this may shock you and Tasty to learn, but did you know in Israel there was a very popular form of erotica that came about in the 50s and 60s called Stalag fiction? It was all centered on erotic fantasies set in concentration camps. You know who bought it? The children of Holocaust survivors. You know who made it? Israelis. Some of the authors of Stalag fiction were survivors themselves. Understand catharsis. I am strongly opposed to revenge, and very violent and grim material is not appealing to me. However you must understand with controversial material like this it's not as simple as saying "the people who like it must be hateful." Just because something depicts hatred or hostility does not mean the person doing the depicting or the people fascinated by the depiction are hateful or hostile. Take almost any Spike Lee movie for example. Many feature themes of racism and hostility. Does this mean Lee is hateful and racist? In Do the Right Thing, characters hurl long strings of racially charged epithets at each other. Does that mean Lee is encouraging racism? Remember the movie 25th Hour with Ed Norton? There was a very long racially charged diatribe in that where Norton speaks directly to the camera, essentially telling the world to fuck off, attacking all kinds of groups. That doesn't mean the movie is a celebration or explicit approval of bigotry. What about Tarantino's Django Unchained. Was that a racist fantasy? Racist against whom? Blacks? The movie is about a black protagonist who basically goes on a killing spree, killing white people. And the N-word was thrown around willy nilly in that film. What do you make of that? Just because something depicts hatred or hostility does not mean the person doing the depicting or the people fascinated by the depiction are hateful or hostile.I honestly think you are projecting at this point. No one else here is afraid of what IR porn is going to do to society. Are you afraid? Because it seems like more than a matter of personal taste that you take umbrage with it. I'm not trying to make light of your concern. Do you honestly fear that IR porn as it is in today's industry is harmful? Take the argument with violence in video games. Politicians and activists like Jack Thompson, Joe Lieberman, and some others campaigned against violence in media, particularly video games, saying it represents a danger to society. And yet many studies have shown that despite the dramatic increase in violence in media, from comic books, to movies, to video games in which violence is has gotten increasingly realistic, real-world violence has actually been steadily declining. The lesson of this seems to be, maybe stop criticizing media for bogus arguments about causing harm to society, and look at the actual results over time. Contrary to their doomsayer's agenda, we should actually be supportive of violent and sexually graphic expressions in media. I personally never put too much stock in the causality of media violence to real world violence, but because of those politicians who so emphatically hammered home the idea that there is a causal link, if anything that should actually give artists and writers much more liberty to go hog-wild with their craft, because evidently that causal link shows violence and sexual explicitness is giving us a safer society. Now think about that in terms of your concern about race dynamics in porn and race dynamics in society. Last I checked, interracial relationships have only been climbing over the last decade. And yet you were telling us how bad the IR porn was, and how harmful. I think, despite what the media wants to tell you about the occasional incidents with racial components, society has progressed as far as it has ever been. This is the most egalitarian American society has ever been. Instead of blaming Dogfart, maybe thank them? They've not caused interracial relationships to decline. No one has achieved that, try as they might. Edited by - Melvyn on 3/12/2016 10:12:07 PM
I am simply saying that IR is yet ANOTHER medium that reinforces ugly stereotypes. I'm not projecting anything and I find it odd/disconcerting that people who defend IR so loudly cannot ask themselves why it turns them on sexually to view such ugly stereotypes.
How would the existence of those things make your argument any more or less valid? You're not making sense. But for the record, there have been some pretty aggressive sites like GhettoGaggers and others which used Confederate flag imagery as a backdrop for brutal face fucking of black females. I think Dogfart has done stuff like that too. But your demand for some sort of equivalence is really bizarre. It seems to contradict your case, because like I said, either way, whether those examples exist or not does not make your argument any more or less valid. What does that have to do with black men portraying themselves how they want to? You're not making sense. Nazi-on-Jew porn has nothing to do with idolization of gangsta lifestyle within black community or American culture at large. The reason this is a distinct false equivalence is the fact that people actually do have romanticized notions of gangsters and thugs. You're not acknowledging the elephant in the room here. People think gangsters are cool. Why do you think people say "that shit was gangsta" when they praise something? No one says "that shit was so bigoted!" to praise something. It's like you keep trying to twist actuality into the opposite of how it is. You're placing hatred and contempt where it isn't, and it's insulting to suggest people who do not share your taste must harbor or have internalized hatred.
Perfect example of twisting something into the opposite. No one is into porn they consider "ugly." So get that straight first. Do you see anyone in the Blacked thread requesting more ugliness? The truth could not be further from your assertion. People admire what they see in their fantasies. You look at those women acting so lustfully and view them as degraded sluts. But we fans think she's hot and beautiful. We look at them and want them. You look at the hulking studs acting aggressive and view them as dumb and degraded animals. But we think they are badass. We look at them and want to be them. What is ugly about this? What is hateful? If this is not exemplifying projection of contempt, I don't know what is.
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TastyFilthyGirlStinkHoles Deactivated User
It just looks and feels so fucking good! 142 Posts 3/16
Posted - Mar 12 2016 : 10:19PM
try and pay attention If those things existed in the same way as mainstream IR porn does right now, the obvious outpouring of OUTRAGE would validate my point. if there was a Nazi-on-Jew or KKKclansmen-on-black female porn studio that had the same popularity as Dogfart, I guarantee they would be such public outcry from white people, jews and Germans that my point would be proved. this is not just "fun and games". its only "fantasy" or "fun and games" because its black racial stereotypes, this is what you cannot admit.I think that is appauling and the site should have come under heavy criticizm for doing that. If there ever was a US studio producing a scene which depicted a Swastika, a Heil Hitler saluting white german performer and a little dainty jewish girl, that studio would be SHUT DOWN. to deny this is to deny reality. for some reason it ceases to be "fun and games" when it challenges white or Jewish racial comforts.Pay attention! The public outcry would prove my point. VERY SIMPLE.You mean pandering to porn directors and CEO's who want to see such movies? bit like how you use hip hop as an excuse, when everybody knows the FBI infiltrated the hip hop movement and turned the agenda into a destructive message. Hip hop was never about black people talking about shooting guns, hoes, drugs and bitches. that was COINTELPRO who infiltrated the hip hop movement to spread that destructive movement. And yes black people such as Dr Dre, Snoop Dogg, 50 cents can make a lot of money making such tracks, and even outwardly portray themselves to be "enjoying" what they are doing, but the reality still remains, Snoop Dogg and 50 cents wouldn't exist if the FBI and music companies had not made it profitable to spread such destructive messages to the black community.You do not have a wide range of understanding of black relations in America. Everything has been weaponzied in the United States. And race relations are no different. depicting black males as dope dealers and the white female as an innocent victim is racial stereotyping. Which no other group would dare allow. You would never have a US studio (of any real popularity) be able to get away with a Nazi-on-Jew themed porn film. You try to avoid that fact because it exposes the reality of the situation. The US-Isreali lobby such as AIPAC or the ADL would shutdown that studio and you know it.
It's interesting that hypotheticals about Nazi-on-Jew action are being thrown around when there's a very real equivalent that is just as prevalent as hard IR: porn that denigrates women and depicts sexualized violence against them. Even excepting the most extreme sites like Facial Abuse, mainstream porn is rife with examples of women being called all kinds of gendered insults like "bitch," "slut," or "whore." They are routinely portrayed as submissive to men, as to take one prominent example, "Slut Puppies." None of the opponents of hard race play in this thread have taken a stance on this issue yet. Are they ready to throw in with the Gail Dines of the world and affirm that porn that portrays demeaning stereotypes of women, that in the mind of it's detractors is opposed to gender equality, should stop being produced by the industry? Why should one form of role-play be barred for the sake of equality while another should be allowed to continue unabated? Not playing "Gotcha", I'm just curious how people are fine with one and not the other. Edited by - Mister Fahrenheit on 3/12/2016 11:39:29 PM
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Mar 12 2016 : 11:33PM
No Spike Lee movie but particularly anything dealing with sexual politics, should be taken as remotely accurate representation of reality. The actress in JF disagreed profoundly with Lee's intentions and reading of the character's motivations and played it against his instructions.
This is a context which is impossible to imagine without changing the entire universe. There's no point speculating on it. It is a premise that is predicated on conditions which are so radically different from how the world is that, my yes indeed, things would be very different. But even in that alternate universe, the outrage could not possibly be so outpouring, for how could it have gotten to such a level of popularity if so many people disliked it? You're not even comparing apples and oranges. You're comparing apples to couches. One is a fruit. The other is furniture.How many times does it need to be pointed out to you, those things do exist? But they are more provocative and controversial, and thus they are not as ubiquitous. Why are you stuck on comparing gangsters to Nazis and terrorists? Gangsters are romanticized to a large degree by popular culture. Nazis and terrorists (the KKK) are not romanticized, they are condemned. You cannot honestly believe these are equivalent. I truly do not believe you understand your own argument. You're actually comparing Nazis and the KKK to gangstas and thugs. As if the latter are not enormously popular and compelling. Look at the examples all throughout Hollywood. From Scarface, to the Godfather, to Goodfellas, American Gangster, to shows like the Wire, Power, etc. There's more ambiguity and intrigue with gangsters. People find their stories and characters compelling, even sympathetic. So why are you persisting in making this false equivalence. It doesn't make any sense.Nazis and the KKK are not the same as common criminals and thugs. And even if they were the same, what does that have to do with black men portraying themselves how they want to? If black dudes want to portray themselves a certain way or are game for playing roles they choose, who are you to tell them they are wrong? By the same token, if Jews want to engage in some twisted fantasies based on Stalag fiction, then who are you to tell them they can't?The FBI can't make you like something that does not appeal to you. The fact is, way before any COINTELPRO or FBI conspiracies existed, the human imagination had long since been captivated by criminals and rebels. From outlaws like Jesse James to infamous pirates like William Teach. No government conspiracies needed to exist in order for people to romanticize these criminals and villains and outlaws. Again you're denying that gangsta rappers had any control. It's always someone else's fault right? And again, what the hell does this have to do with black male pornstars doing what they want to do? What does it have to do with Jake Steed and his black monsters v. young white teens series? Let me guess, the government was behind that? Was the government behind Alexander Devoe directing the kidnapping fantasies of every scene in Dynamic Booty #4? Come on man...SMH you act like a bunch of people out there want to see Nazi-on-Jew porn. This is incredible. That's so out of touch, it must be painful to reach that far. If more people wanted it, then they would get more of it. But they don't really, so there's not much. The fact is, IR is very popular. It seems you can't deal with that, so you dredge up conspiracies and accuse others who enjoy it of being hateful. Demanding more Nazi porn is a desperate reach for some sort of double standard that simply does not exist. We've already explained to you, that type of thing did and does still exist. The ADL has not filed against Harmony for using Nazi costumes in their porn. Quit moving the goalposts. Come the fuck on. There was no government conspiracy behind HushHush, with those black male pornstars who loved hearing the young white girls drop the N-bomb. That was ALL ON THEM. Just watch those scenes man, they loved it. You have a problem with it because it's inconvenient for your narrative and you have to act outraged by it. But if it was a government conspiracy, why would HushHush have folded? Wouldn't the gov. keep it going? Why can't you just let people be into their own freaky fantasies? Edited by - Melvyn on 3/12/2016 11:43:41 PM Edited by - Melvyn on 3/13/2016 12:01:56 AM
Yes, well said, although I didn't even know who Dines was. I'll have to look that up. As I said earlier, this is like complaining about BDSM because the objector feels BDSM inherently dehumanizes the sub. The inconvenient truth is, a lot of people are simply into this. It doesn't make them bad. It doesn't mean they have internalized oppression somehow. It doesn't mean they've necessarily been traumatized in their youth, nor does it imply they wish to traumatize anyone else. People just like what they like, and they don't need to be put on trial for it. And interesting question that does come to mind though is, for those black male performers who liked being called the N word, does that mean they are masochistic? Because as I understand the conventions of BDSM, the masochists are typically if not always regarded as the sub or submissive and are the ones acted upon. And yet contrary to that, guys like Shane and Richard Mann were never the ones being submissive. They were always the ones in control, if not taking control, they were in equal control. So to even suggest their enjoyment of raceplay was masochistic would not seem to fit. Anyway, a lot of women like being called bitch. A lot of them like being manhandled and treated roughly. I just read that Leah Gotti interview and she says she enjoys being roughed up during sex. It doesn't mean she has internalized misogyny. It doesn't mean she hates men either. It doesn't mean she's supporting abuse of women. People just like what they like. There's no reason we cannot respect these things. Shane, Richard, Boz, et al are not bad guys, nor must they represent all black performers. The case I've simply been trying to make is in favor of tolerating politically incorrect fantasies, so long as they are legal and the people involved are consenting which should go without saying.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Mar 13 2016 : 12:01AM
I haven't seen Jungle Fever in a long time, but I'd say that Spike Lee generally depicts reality as he understands it, as do other writer/directors who make films that take place in the "real" world. Of course objective reality exists, but since our experience of it is subjective I wouldn't expect a film to be any different.
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Mar 13 2016 : 12:07AM
I think Spike Lee's biggest blind spot as an artist is his inability to represent or sympathize with female characters. Often his sexism borders on the absurd, he's only gotten worse as he's aged.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Mar 13 2016 : 12:17AM
^There's no question that in many of his films women don't come off well. Perhaps he got played one too many times when he was younger (just speculating), but he definitely appears to have some issues on that front. Edited by - misspornUSA on 3/13/2016 12:24:24 AM
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Mar 13 2016 : 12:22AM
Edited by - misspornUSA on 3/13/2016 12:24:01 AM
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TastyFilthyGirlStinkHoles Deactivated User
It just looks and feels so fucking good! 142 Posts 3/16
Posted - Mar 13 2016 : 12:36AM
You typed all of that and never stopped to think why is it more provocative and controversial? hahahaha i am truly amused by you. What makes the subject of Nazi's and Jews more controversial than Black males being depicted as thugs and animals? Its all in your mindset. You KNOW the only difference is AIPAC and the ADL.BULLSHIT You are committing an informal logical fallacy of Equivocation on the word "Gangsters". We all know that colloquially the word gangster can refer to "gangster" or "gangsta" - there is a difference between "gangster" and "gangsta" as we all know.... "Gangsters" such as the Sicilian or Corsican mob might be romanticized by the media and hollywood, but "Gangsta's" such as the crips and bloods or your run of the mill black so-called "thug" in run down Chicago most certainly is not. Do not tell me that in the height of the crack cocaine epidemic in the 80s you were having romantic thoughts about all the dope dealers and crack cocaine dealers the mainstream media pushed in front of white america every evening lol. Its just an asinine proposition to try to perform equivocation on the word "gangster". As if it is the same thing as what white america sees when they look at an average black thug. Please do better.LMAO Look at that pathetic list of examples...."Godfather", "Goodfellas", "American Gangster"...even "Power". All you are describing is Sophisticated Organized Crime and Wealthy individuals. Which always attracts romanticism. Yes indeed people such as the well dressed but ruthless Italian mobsters are popular and compelling characters to explore, lots of intrigue with such societies. Do not conflate the two. A drug dealer in downtown Chicago is not the type of gangster that America worships and warms too. Its the type America scorns and insults. Simple difference. Therefore Portraying black males as dope dealers does harm to the image of black males in an already racially divided America. Portraying young Italian males as smartly dressed Mafia mobsters with a strict code of conduct and a sense of morality doesn't do so much damage because it has been romanticized by Hollyweird.You intentionally avoided the aspect of a profit based economy and the fact that major porn companies pay black performers to produce such IR porn featuring hard race play. I'm glad you stated common criminals are not the same as the KKK. But I ask you, aren't the KKK a subset of American history? is it not true that the Nazi's are a subset of German history? why then are these more controversial to depict oneself as? simple. Its because it crosses a line which you will not extend to the black community because you want to hear black males being called N*ggers more often. Very easy to figure this out...Interesting how the Jewish fantasy is described as "twisted" but when you talked about black males portraying a certain role, you left that word out. So its not "twisted" to have black males kidnapping and pretty much forcing helpless white females to have sex with them? hahaha Once again, this is not even my argument. Can you ever Pay attention??. My argument is, this is the only dynamic people want to be "less PC" in an ever progressing world. If a Nazi-Jew porn studio started in America, it would be shut down in 3 weeks and you know it. the Jewish lobby would not allow that type of so-called "fun and games" to exist. That type of "fantasy" crosses the line to most people, at least we know it does to the ADL. Most certainly Americans will not be able to get hold of such material. Only black folks can be portrayed in this degrading manner.You fail to grasp the power of stereotyping. Those black pornstars you mention could very well have come up with the idea all by themselves, but guess what? they did it because they knew if they pandered to such a stereotype there would be a lucrative market for it. A market created by the very race-based nature of the United States and the undertones of racism that exist in American society each and every day. Unspoken of course. That's pretty much all there is to it. Same reason a young rapper out of a run down hood Chicago who sees all the evils that drugs and prostitution has brought to his neighborhood goes to a recording studio to call women bitches and whores, and promote drug dealing and murder - the very things that wrecked his neighborhood. This young kid know there is a market for it, and he wants to get rich, so he does it to make money. PERIOD. The young rapper KNOWS its wrong to promote such messages, but he does it anyway. There is a market for hard raceplaying IR porn. created by the unspoken festering racism in American society. So some black pornstars just do it. I am saying we should be happy the market is becoming more realistic by portraying black males as real human beings. Others want the IR market to head towards harder raceplaying. I detest this idea.Total rubbish from someone with comprehension issues... My argument is NOT and never has been against IR. I don't even understand why IR is a category in itself. it should be 2 people having sex. my argument is against hard racial stereotyping in IR which depicts black males as less than human and white females as stupid, gullible innocent little things. I already explained to you there is a market for this type of stuff, hence why it is being produced. Even if there was a market for nasty hard racial stereotyping involving Nazi's, swastika's, burning crosses, Nazi salutes and young fair Jewish maidens, the ADL and AIPAC would see to it, this market would have to go underground. PERIOD. You and I both know this to be true. Denying this is akin to denying the sun will come up tomorrowStrawman argument detected, at no point have I demanded Nazi porn in this thread hahahaha. Try to keep up with me and please do pay attention. I used it as an example of a "fantasy" or so-called "fun and games" that bodies and Public affairs committees such as ADL and AIPAC would campaign against until the studio was shut down. it would be too controversial in North America. Of course, You and I both know this is true. It doesn't matter whether you admit it or not.Show me the North American company that produces Nazi on Jewish porn with any audience what so ever? I'll wait..........................................................Once again, if there's a market for it. black males may go ahead and pander to the crowd or buck dance to the system to earn a living. Coonery is nothing new. black america will always have its coons who will do anything for money. These black males figured, america would love to see me depict myself as a dope-head gangsta "gorilla" or something to that effect, so fuck it, I might as well do it...we all know the same would not be possible for KKK clansmen fucking black females with a burning cross in the background, no matter what audience there is for such a film (and trust me there would be an audience for such a film because a lot of people are closet racists) - white males in America would be in uproar at the depiction, likewise if you had a north american studio producing films featuring Nazi's on young innocent jewish maidens, Jews would revolt at the idea. You and I know this to be true. Only black males can be allowed to degrade themselves to such an extent. Then you guys turn around and say "see, a group of black males are doing it, it must be okay" totally oblivious to the racial stereotypical messages it reinforces in white america that black males are subhuman. And you guys sit there and say "its just harmless fun", of course if the tables were turned it'd be something else entirely... I am not against IR either, so stop spreading lies. The fact that "IR" as a category of porn even exists is fucking disgraceful, shameful and shocking to me (I live in Europe). It should just be 2 people having sex. Why should IR (Inter-racial) be a category and "Intra-racial" (within the same race) is not a category???? I am against hard racial stereotyping which depicts black males as less than human. That's what I am against. Stereotyping Edited by - TastyFilthyGirlStinkHoles on 3/13/2016 12:36:51 AM Edited by - TastyFilthyGirlStinkHoles on 3/13/2016 12:38:26 AM
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Mar 13 2016 : 12:41AM
^So you're okay with the raceplay that Shane Diesel, for example, has participated in on Hush Hush and Dogfart? Those scenes didn't depict him as less than human.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Mar 13 2016 : 12:43AM
^^Plenty of porn in general depicts females as "as stupid, gullible innocent little things." Are you okay with that kind of porn as long as it's not IR?
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TastyFilthyGirlStinkHoles Deactivated User
It just looks and feels so fucking good! 142 Posts 3/16
Posted - Mar 13 2016 : 12:52AM
Plenty of porn in general depicts males as "boneheads", "stupid", "meat-heads", "slaves" and other such things. Including porn which has females trampling on the male's private parts or inflicting what must be pain on the male performer in various ways. What now? Look up "FEMDOM" since you seem to have a hard time of understanding that there exists a counter-culture to the aggressive masochistic porn or female degrading porn you love to cite. Well there's male degrading stuff too... So news flash. we live in a world where there is male degrading porn and female degrading porn. In other words we have a counter balance culture. We however, live in the same world, where there only exists one race of people who are consistently portrayed or allowed to portray themselves as subhuman animals or pathological criminals. And that is what I find offensive about hard raceplay in IR films. There is no counter balance. I am therefore happy to see things progressing in such a way were black males are considered human beings too.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Mar 13 2016 : 12:54AM
^So you're okay with the raceplay that Shane Diesel, for example, has participated in on Hush Hush and Dogfart? Those scenes didn't depict him as a subhuman animal. Edited by - misspornUSA on 3/13/2016 12:55:03 AM
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Mar 13 2016 : 12:56AM
There was some Nazis themed porn in the 70s like Prisoner of Paradise (with big stars John Holmes & Seka) and Blue Ice (coming to blu-ray soon!). Even bigger was the technically softcore but rather vile Nazisploitation films produced by Italians during the same period, based on the tremendously popular US Ilsa films and Tinto Brass' Salon Kitty. In the mid 80s there was a Dark Bros. video Let Me Tell You 'Bout Black Chicks that had an infamous threesome with two guys dressed as KKK thugs and other overtly racist stereotypes. Good luck ever finding it, as it was pulled due to blowback, was never released on DVD and is even near impossible to find even as a torrent. Edited by - BlackSix on 3/13/2016 12:58:29 AM
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TastyFilthyGirlStinkHoles Deactivated User
It just looks and feels so fucking good! 142 Posts 3/16
Posted - Mar 13 2016 : 1:05AM
To be perfectly honest, I haven't seen those scenes and the funny thing is it doesn't matter whether I'm okay with it or not. I will be willing to take your word for it. I am simply for the portrayal of black men as human beings. I am against racial stereotyping in all forms. So If you say that film didn't contain such things then Yes I am okay with it.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Mar 13 2016 : 1:09AM
^^Are you only "against hard racial stereotyping which depicts black males as less than human" or are you "against racial stereotyping in all forms"? Edited by - misspornUSA on 3/13/2016 1:10:06 AM
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TastyFilthyGirlStinkHoles Deactivated User
It just looks and feels so fucking good! 142 Posts 3/16
Posted - Mar 13 2016 : 1:09AM
Excellent post which confirms a lot of the points I raised. for some reason when somebody tries to steer over into these other controversial waters, the DVD becomes impossible to obtain, there is severe blowback and things get pulled....hmmm I wonder If we will ever figure out why? There are areas studio's cannot touch because of the outrage people will have. White males are outraged at a white male depicted as a KKK thug, german males would be outraged as Nazi depictions against harmless Jewish maidens...anybody who denies this, denies reality. For some reason its just harmless fun to depict black males as crack cocaine dealers, pathological criminals and stupid ape like thugs. Of course the white females somehow being coerced into sex with this black ape like thug... I see.... but everything else is off limits. Somehow we can't find all those Nazi or KKK DVD's...they just go missing all of a sudden.
Introducing Natasha Carter
Posted - Mar 12 2016 : 5:44PM
i am truly amused by you. What makes the subject of Nazi's and Jews more controversial than Black males being depicted as thugs and animals? Its all in your mindset. You KNOW the only difference is AIPAC and the ADL.
BULLSHIT You are committing an informal logical fallacy of Equivocation on the word "Gangsters". We all know that colloquially the word gangster can refer to "gangster" or "gangsta" - there is a difference between "gangster" and "gangsta" as we all know.... 