Porn is a dying industry. (page 5)

Author	Post
JustforKicks Member 15 Posts 4/09	Posted - Apr 19 2009 : 5:10PM Zaer wrote: JustforKicks wrote: ^ What good is modicum control of something that is going to be stolen right from you wallet? If its going to end up on the internet eventually why put money in making a product that you know is going to be stolen? That's crazy talk! What's the point of giving a lower cost if you can't beat free you can never go low enough. It's stolen then then given away. Na who would want to put up the money and time for a movie, if you can't make a paycheck for your work. Click to expand Well it's either the content producers have a modicum of control over their content and make money off their content or have no real control at all and continue to lose profit. Furthermore all digitizable content ends up on the internet eventually anyway, that's not what matters, it's simply a known fact. What matters is whether or not a content producer can make money off the content that they know is going to end up on the internet eventually anyway. And the facts indicate that they can. Wow it might not matter to you but I beat the people that are getting rob of their paycheck it matters! Just because something going to happen eventually does not make it right! It's the frame of mind and the willingness to do the right thing that will bring about change. If we just give in that's just a cop-out! How do you figure the facts indicate that they can make enough money to do business and create the quality of content we all love soo much that it brings us to these boards on our spare time? We hear time and again that this is effecting the industry in such a huge way and not by one company but a whole slew of them. If ton of people came up to me and said their stores or homes are being rob, why would I not believe them? And contrary to what some believe, you can actually beat free, namely by giving people more convenient and faster access to content than they would get through free means. And it can be done it's just a matter of thinking about the problem and figuring out the best way to do it. First why do you have to think about how to beat free when its someone Stealing from you? I would be trying to figure out how to get the crooks out of my home no matter what the odds! Second how fast is fast enough for you? Dam it don't take much time to go to store and Buy/Rent and if you have Pay on Demand faster still. What do you want the movie implanted in your brain the day before it comes out, so its a memory? Dam shit is fast now a days! And they can make money off their movies they just have to be willing to give the consumers what they want. I don't know what you expect from these movies but it's clear that the companies do give consumers what they want way more then another industry. They have the hottest girls fucked to the moon and back, dam man, double this double that. Feet, hair, no hair, armpits, ass what do you want them to make smelly-vision too? They take freaking requests of all things. Straight from the Fans!!! Plus the more popular something is the more it getting file shared so I can't see the point of them dumping more money into good shit Click to expand Edited by - JustforKicks on 4/19/2009 5:13:07 PM [Link]
simmond Member "Survive the droughts, I wish you well"........ Jay Z, American Dreamin 56 Posts 2/09	Posted - Apr 19 2009 : 7:16PM Draxxx wrote: The question I have is why isnt the industry selling more units. The fact that the largest selling films of the industrys history were features seems to suggest to me that that is the direction we probably should go in if we want to appeal to more of the mainstream. Now before you respond that gonzo is selling more now, realize that what Im talking about is expanding the total universe of porn consumers. Seems to me that the way to make the industry less vulnerable to piracy is to make more people want to buy our content. Seems to me that the films that have done that, and come close to doing that, were features. Click to expand You're basically talking about a handful of heavily hyped movies. If you look at the sales charts on any given month there are much more often than not many more "gonzo" movies in the top 20 than features. I'm looking at the TOP 100 OVERALL sales chart right now and there's only 3 features in the top 20. The rest of the 20 is made up of DIGITAL PLAYGROUND, EVIL ANGEL, ELEGANT ANGEL and JULES JORDAN movies. The #1 movie is the VIVID release with that woman who appeared on the soap opera. I'd imagine the reason for the strong sales of that movie is the curiosity/hype factor of having a "mainstream" actress in a porn movie. Despite the fact that VIVID mostly puts out features they only have two more movies in the top 50 and one of them is a Jenna Jameson movie. Features in general aren't the biggest sellers. They may generate more money because the companies that make them have an easier time selling them to cable outlets and that's where the bulk of the profit is made for the companies that produce them. But typically the higher end "gonzo" companies dominate the charts. The heavily hyped big budget features do well but just doing a feature doesn't mean you'll have a big or strong seller. If you're talking about features selling better years ago...of course they did because there weren't as many options back then. Plus the gonzo stuff at one time was seen as "low grade" porn. Click to expand My original question was " why isnt the industry moving more units". When a typical Jenna Jameson title sold over 100k copies, and a different title that sells only 5k is considered succesful there is something wrong. Thats about a 20 fold difference between the universe of typical porn buyers and the universe of potential porn buyers. The problem may be worse than that given that "Piratesxxx" in all likelyhood sold in the seven figures. A smart industry will market itself as to attract the casual consumer. For example. Lets call me a casual baseball fan. Im fluent in rules of the game. I'll watch mabey 10 regular season games a year. I'll watch the world series, the all star game, and if one I one my favorite teams is on TV I will watch them if its an important game. If Major League Baseball wants to get me to spend more money on baseball or at least watch more baseball they will have to start by putting the teams I like on TV. So they would put the Dodgers, the Redsox, the Angels, mabey the Yankees on TV. Now the Oakland As and the Minnesota Twins might be fine teams, they may even be objectively better. Perhaps the hardcore baseball fan would prefer to see those teams or the Phillies and the Tigers in the world series. But I dont. Therefore Im not going to watch the those teams play. As I didnt watch last years series. Now the question is, to what extent can an industry sustain itself as It sells itself to the the casual consumer. Obvious, casula consumers dont purchase alot of your product, hence the word "casual". I think the answer lies in asking how many porn DVDs does the average casual consumer have in their library. I think the average consumer has about three or four. I think the average porn consumer has Deepthroat, or The Devil in Mrs Jones, or Behind the Green Door, Debbie Does Dallas. One or two of the classics. I think they also have Pirates, and a Jenna Jameson movie. And thats it. I know in my family, my dad had one movie. I dont even remember the name of it. My dad likes porn, but its just not that important to him. But if he happened to to see a trailer of an adult film, and he got the impression from that trailer that he would probably enjoy it, in addition to being able to jerk off to it, he'd probably spend 30 bucks on it. The porn industry has to make it so that the average family, that isnt a family of religious nuts has about 10 porn DVDs. Those people arn't gonna download porn. And the universe of those consumers is much larger. I understand that the hardcore consumer is preferring Gonzo. But the hardcore consumer isnt going to save this industry. Edited by - simmond on 4/19/2009 7:21:51 PM Edited by - simmond on 4/19/2009 7:24:26 PM [Link]
JustforKicks Member 15 Posts 4/09	Posted - Apr 20 2009 : 1:55AM Seems to me like you answered your own Question Simmond by naming Star Power Jenna Jameson. Her movies can suck and they still sell ( I'm not saying here movies suck!) it has nothing to do with any one company or the talent of the director or crew. It drives me kinda nuts when i start off saying I heard of this new film coming out in theaters its suppose to be hot want to go see it and the first thing I get back is "who's in it?" I'm thinking I hope its no one I know. But for most people they will not go see a movie unless they has some major name. I bet if every studio could shoot Jenna Jameson they would or any of the other girls in Piratesxxx [Link]
SexyHard Member 673 Posts 6/07	Posted - Apr 20 2009 : 8:16PM ^^^ It's funny, I think the average porn consumer doesn't own any porn, but only rents once in a while. [Link]

fu_q All-Star Member Marv Montag (@PornOfYore) 2506 Posts 2/09	Posted - Apr 21 2009 : 11:40PM Here's a relevant / interesting article from AVN: http://business.avn.com/articles/35077.html [Link]
AlisonHart New Member 1 Posts 4/09	Posted - Apr 25 2009 : 1:51AM Since this started out as a thread about Stormy's future plans, folks might be interested in Gram Ponante's latest blog post. It appears that Stormy is taking the suggestion to run for office seriously: Eligible by virtue of her 30th birthday on March 17 and her U.S. citizenship, the Baton Rouge native is legally changing her name to the one known by millions of porn fans, members of the U.S. Postal Service, and Judd Apatow, and beginning her campaign in earnest next week. Daniels will be talking with voters and gathering signatures in Lafayette, Baton Rouge, and New Orleans for the race to succeed David Vitter, who in 2007 was named as a client of Deborah Jeane Palfrey, otherwise known as the D.C. Madam. Click to expand Full article: Gram Ponante: Stormy Daniels wins key endorsement [Link]
Mike_Rach Member 89 Posts 10/03	Posted - Apr 25 2009 : 9:12AM simmond wrote: My original question was " why isnt the industry moving more units". When a typical Jenna Jameson title sold over 100k copies, and a different title that sells only 5k is considered succesful there is something wrong. Thats about a 20 fold difference between the universe of typical porn buyers and the universe of potential porn buyers. The problem may be worse than that given that "Piratesxxx" in all likelyhood sold in the seven figures. A smart industry will market itself as to attract the casual consumer. For example. Lets call me a casual baseball fan. Im fluent in rules of the game. I'll watch mabey 10 regular season games a year. I'll watch the world series, the all star game, and if one I one my favorite teams is on TV I will watch them if its an important game. If Major League Baseball wants to get me to spend more money on baseball or at least watch more baseball they will have to start by putting the teams I like on TV. So they would put the Dodgers, the Redsox, the Angels, mabey the Yankees on TV. Now the Oakland As and the Minnesota Twins might be fine teams, they may even be objectively better. Perhaps the hardcore baseball fan would prefer to see those teams or the Phillies and the Tigers in the world series. But I dont. Therefore Im not going to watch the those teams play. As I didnt watch last years series. Now the question is, to what extent can an industry sustain itself as It sells itself to the the casual consumer. Obvious, casula consumers dont purchase alot of your product, hence the word "casual". I think the answer lies in asking how many porn DVDs does the average casual consumer have in their library. I think the average consumer has about three or four. I think the average porn consumer has Deepthroat, or The Devil in Mrs Jones, or Behind the Green Door, Debbie Does Dallas. One or two of the classics. I think they also have Pirates, and a Jenna Jameson movie. And thats it. I know in my family, my dad had one movie. I dont even remember the name of it. My dad likes porn, but its just not that important to him. But if he happened to to see a trailer of an adult film, and he got the impression from that trailer that he would probably enjoy it, in addition to being able to jerk off to it, he'd probably spend 30 bucks on it. The porn industry has to make it so that the average family, that isnt a family of religious nuts has about 10 porn DVDs. Those people arn't gonna download porn. And the universe of those consumers is much larger. I understand that the hardcore consumer is preferring Gonzo. But the hardcore consumer isnt going to save this industry. Edited by - simmond on 4/19/2009 7:21:51 PM Edited by - simmond on 4/19/2009 7:24:26 PM Click to expand simmond makes a good point... I'm sure piracy is a factor, but it's there for Hollywood too. Porn is probably also a victim of itself in a way - the sheer amount of porn produced every year. Most people rent it. For me, it doesn't have nearly as much replay value as a Hollywood flick. Then there is so much new content, why watch the same stuff over and over again? It's not like porn is the type of fare that you have sitting on your media rack, and gather round the couches and watch with friends or family. If a successful gonzo flick is 5000 copies, I can't be the only one with a similar opinion. [Link]
RandomPrecision Senior Member Enjoy! 8175 Posts 3/06	Posted - Apr 25 2009 : 11:08AM LubeNLuv wrote: RandomPrecision wrote: We want to see guys who go at it the way we would if we had the chance. Not a guy who's been doing it every day for 20 years. Click to expand If porn were made to depict the way 95% of the male porn viewing audience would react in the presence of a naked hot woman, you'd be left with female masturbation vids only. Click to expand OK. It was a figure of speech. The way we would like to (I guess) is a better way to say it. Most of the male performers appear bored at best. Edited by - randomprecision on 4/25/2009 11:11:28 AM [Link]
JUSTWRONG69 Member 100 Posts 10/08	Posted - May 4 2009 : 9:44PM Invest money, and lets get women like this "earnin". Make them rich, and we get to enjoy every minute.. Can you imagine seeing this in anal? My, My, My.. It is Racquel Darrian all over again (but give them more to do more). I am dying to see Veronika Zemanova do mainstream, but she made too much doing nada. April Bowlby plays a ditsy red-head on "Two and half men". Plenty of bikini and scenes where director plays to her sex appeal. I would love to see this fine ass do porn.. please!!! Man, we have made it if it ever happened. She would make anyone lose a load in her panties, much less doing a porn and die if she went all the way. [Link]
JUSTWRONG69 Member 100 Posts 10/08	Posted - May 4 2009 : 10:51PM Mike_Rach wrote: simmond wrote: My original question was " why isnt the industry moving more units". When a typical Jenna Jameson title sold over 100k copies, and a different title that sells only 5k is considered succesful there is something wrong. Thats about a 20 fold difference between the universe of typical porn buyers and the universe of potential porn buyers. The problem may be worse than that given that "Piratesxxx" in all likelyhood sold in the seven figures. A smart industry will market itself as to attract the casual consumer. For example. Lets call me a casual baseball fan. Im fluent in rules of the game. I'll watch mabey 10 regular season games a year. I'll watch the world series, the all star game, and if one I one my favorite teams is on TV I will watch them if its an important game. If Major League Baseball wants to get me to spend more money on baseball or at least watch more baseball they will have to start by putting the teams I like on TV. So they would put the Dodgers, the Redsox, the Angels, mabey the Yankees on TV. Now the Oakland As and the Minnesota Twins might be fine teams, they may even be objectively better. Perhaps the hardcore baseball fan would prefer to see those teams or the Phillies and the Tigers in the world series. But I dont. Therefore Im not going to watch the those teams play. As I didnt watch last years series. Now the question is, to what extent can an industry sustain itself as It sells itself to the the casual consumer. Obvious, casula consumers dont purchase alot of your product, hence the word "casual". I think the answer lies in asking how many porn DVDs does the average casual consumer have in their library. I think the average consumer has about three or four. I think the average porn consumer has Deepthroat, or The Devil in Mrs Jones, or Behind the Green Door, Debbie Does Dallas. One or two of the classics. I think they also have Pirates, and a Jenna Jameson movie. And thats it. I know in my family, my dad had one movie. I dont even remember the name of it. My dad likes porn, but its just not that important to him. But if he happened to to see a trailer of an adult film, and he got the impression from that trailer that he would probably enjoy it, in addition to being able to jerk off to it, he'd probably spend 30 bucks on it. The porn industry has to make it so that the average family, that isnt a family of religious nuts has about 10 porn DVDs. Those people arn't gonna download porn. And the universe of those consumers is much larger. I understand that the hardcore consumer is preferring Gonzo. But the hardcore consumer isnt going to save this industry. Edited by - simmond on 4/19/2009 7:21:51 PM Edited by - simmond on 4/19/2009 7:24:26 PM Click to expand simmond makes a good point... I'm sure piracy is a factor, but it's there for Hollywood too. Porn is probably also a victim of itself in a way - the sheer amount of porn produced every year. Most people rent it. For me, it doesn't have nearly as much replay value as a Hollywood flick. Then there is so much new content, why watch the same stuff over and over again? It's not like porn is the type of fare that you have sitting on your media rack, and gather round the couches and watch with friends or family. If a successful gonzo flick is 5000 copies, I can't be the only one with a similar opinion. Click to expand Let's do this... I have never rented "Pirates", and I do not "soft-core" movies (why waste my time). Too many great scenes and beautiful women who will do things in a video I pay money for, to get "slighted". I rent movies, and buy movies often whether through rental or VOD. DO I have a rental through NetFL* or any other? No, but I have one through an adult. Did I rent "mainstream videos"? Yes. Wow, and Blockbuster is going down and out. Are my adult? Not that I know of..? Seems adult rental is going strong! Adult rental has devoted followers, where a good "vanilla" can be bought anytime, anyday at your local "wally-word". It is like saying, I love ice cream but I will settle for a smoothie. Or better said, like saying I enjoy a shower in the morning but I will settle for getting my head wet. It is simply not the same. Desire, is desire and you can make a case that softcore will sell more movies but you are lost on passionate and devoted followers. I do not know where and why porn actresses arent making the money, because I only and only buy movies that have anal or DP. I would prefer to think, or if I thought my money would make more women do anal, I am there. Every woman in porno should give it all up and understand we expect everything. And where can a man enjoy a beautiful spreading ass cheeks and taking it like a pro (pros) aside from fantasy. If you have it you are lucky, and sometimes your girl will if she sees beautiful women doing it. Fantastic brought to life! You are right where it is not the fare you would sit down with the "fam" and watch it. But it is the kind of thing people watch in their bedroom at night where you dont hear about it, and it is not widely discussed. It satisfies and inspires more passion and sexuality. Please dont get me wrong, there is room for mainstream soft-core. But this is not comparable in any way to the women who are as beautiful and satisfy every fantasy for men. And women have started coming around and are as sexual. If I wanted to show my girl a porn, I wouldnt show her the same mainstream crap we have seen a million times. And "mainstream rental" would go out of business, but adult would prosper and I am a "happy man". Movies are dying, and movie rental is bringing conglomerate "main-stream" rental businesses to their knees. Adult rental is still prosperous and competitive and has a valuable commodity you can't find everywhere. "Main-stream" made it more valuable, where main-stream differences ruined others. Long live porn (oldest profession), and may they get better, and better. And should be paid more than any celeb in Hollywood. They give more, do more, and it is what we will pay for a great porn star. Sick of seeing tired actresses getting attention, when pornstars are as beautiful and satisfy fantasies. Forget Angelena, when there is Maya or Eva, or Corrina? Celebs are not unlike anyone else, and there really is nothing special about them or what they do. Can you not be in a movie? Or get "airbrushed" and be in an action scene? They are not doing anything in a movie anyone could not do. Pornstars have something else, and it is a sacrifice and profound. They have a talent, and abilities that can make person come to sexual passion. Genuine and humanly sexual. Anyone of them could do a movie, but how many celebs could do what they do? Let the movie industry fail, but adult movies and actresses will survive. And I hope the industry pays them more for what they do. Edited by - JUSTWRONG69 on 5/5/2009 12:04:25 AM [Link]
Mike Quasar Zero Tolerance Reluctant pornographer 1765 Posts 7/01	Posted - May 5 2009 : 12:53AM My prediction: Outside of very specialized fetish sites, new porn will not exist in 5 years. I don't care how creative and innovative, how big-budget or ambitious, the next generation will never pay for porn; ever. Without new customers, no industry can survive. It was fun while it lasted. The writing was on the wall with Napster. Who knew that Lars Ulrich was smarter than the entire recording industry, movie industry and porn industry. [Link]
duefuss Member Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious - Brendan Gill 723 Posts 4/09	Posted - May 5 2009 : 3:21PM The porn industry is bigger than the mainstream movie business. How much isn't precisely known, but I've seen sources that said it was twice as big. Moreover, the porn business is credited with putting a VCR in every home and I expect a good pecentage of PCs there too. It has always been on the leading edge of technology. Sex sells, always has, always will. What's changing is the way it's getting to the consumer. Some will lag behind that change, some won't. I think you can wave good-bye to the brick and mortar porn shop. You can bet the industry will find ways to surmount it's current problems; maybe in part by putting out a better product, but I really doubt that. I don't think free porn on the internet is hurting sales that much. Most of us here look at it, but I also pay hadsomely for site access, downloads, and VOD. Partly a function of my present circumstance (more free time, discretionary income, age, etc.), but not entirely, I spend more on it now than I ever did. I spend more, too, precisely because the free stuff that's on the 'net, mostly clips and previews, makes me want to see more, and I have to pay for that. The economy is what's hurting this non-essential product the most and that's only temporary. The big loser of the porn business will ultimately, I think, be us, as porn develops legal strategies to curtail free stuff on the 'net and technologies to safeguard their own product, and that will allow them to even increase their profit margins. Dead business. No way! [Link]
Janitor Retired Porno movies, sexy videos, xxx. Adult DVD Talk at your service. 6409 Posts 11/99	Posted - May 5 2009 : 4:16PM duefuss wrote: The porn industry is bigger than the mainstream movie business. How much isn't precisely known, but I've seen sources that said it was twice as big. Click to expand Your sources are wrong. The porn industry is peanuts next to the mainstream movie biz. [Link]
Zen Master 2007 Member 356 Posts 3/07	Posted - May 5 2009 : 4:25PM ^ Steph is spot-on here, if only for the reason that the majority of major movie studios (and many "indie" movie studios) are recognized subsidiaries of enormous global communications conglomerates that also own major newspapers, television networks, petroleum interests, et. al. - Zen [Link]

melt Pornstar Diplomat The pride of Manchester 3763 Posts 1/09	Posted - May 5 2009 : 4:45PM I doubt very much that porn will ever die anymore than sex will die but the way porn is sold will have to change. Pirates have shown the internet world the extent of the variety that exists in the porn industry but if users are getting everything for free ultimately producers will cease producing as much as they are producing now because they wont get a reasonable reward for their investment and talent. Trying to eliminate the tube sites is a futile exercise and I think the way forward is for studios and pirates to come to some partnership. I have seen many critics of Brazzers in particular who provide clips to tube sites and advertise on these sites as well but I do think that maybe that is a start of what eventually will have to happen in order for everyone to reap some benefit at the increasing numbers of porn addicts that use primarily the internet for their porn viewing. [Link]
just_me Member 133 Posts 4/09	Posted - May 5 2009 : 6:52PM melt wrote: Trying to eliminate the tube sites is a futile exercise and I think the way forward is for studios and pirates to come to some partnership. Click to expand This will never happen. Those who facilitate piracy do so because they are living under the delusion that all porn producers are billionaires and all pornstars are millionaires (I'm not kidding, they truly believe pornstars are millionaires). "The rich" are _only_ interested in hoarding wealth. Need I say more than to look a mere four posts up? He sounds half-reasonable if he's telling the truth in all he says, but he certainly has been convinced by others that porn is an endless source of wealth. There already is a way for anyone to be in partnership, referral programs. Thing is, these people have no interest in aiding the "greedy corporations". And for every one that can be turned around, there are 10 more behind him ready and willing to take up "the cause". Edited by - just_me on 5/5/2009 6:56:30 PM [Link]
Zartyr Member 700 Posts 7/04	Posted - May 5 2009 : 7:07PM Mike Quasar wrote: [...]Who knew that Lars Ulrich was smarter than the entire recording industry, movie industry and porn industry. Click to expand 1. Well, too bad that the likes of Britneys and will have to cruise the boardwalk for work to finance their drug habits. 2. Well, too bad >95% of nowaday's pop/rock/big screen/porn/whatever performers are not able to get a single emotion out of anyone in a live performance. 3. Well, 1 and 2 combined, there is no hope left for Britneys and . [Link]
BlackSix All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07	Posted - May 6 2009 : 2:31AM duefuss wrote: I don't think free porn on the internet is hurting sales that much. Click to expand Sorry, but the downturn in porn recently seems much more serious than previous recessions. I think it is completely related to the internet, after all downloading has pretty much crippled record stores and major labels. [Link]
Darky Deactivated User 13 Posts 3/09	Posted - May 6 2009 : 3:38AM I know a lot of you have issues with piracy so does the recording industry and Hollywood. Myself I only paid for I think 5 titles which I consider classics and a few new titles. However I must have over 1,000 adult dvds d/l from sources like Newsgroups. In this tough economy the mentality I have is every man out for himself and me spending money on porn is just not economically viable. I prefer to put that extra money away in the bank. Plus I feel justified in downloading on average 5 DVDs per day on my turbo speed road runner cable access. All that bandwidth is definitely not going to waste. Now of course the moral implications of course as most of you will think that people like me steal or hurt the industry. Honestly I do not care. In fact it does not bother me not even in the slightest. I sleep like a baby at night. I guess the worst part is millions upon millions do it. I like PORN but I love my MONEY. In fact I thought newsgroup access was something not main stream, usually its bit torrent or limewire. However whenever I go to Fry's electronics and hang out at the magazine area I hear more and more people talking about how they use Newsgroups to download a lot of movies. I guess the bottom line is millions upon millions are downloading porn for free and more and more are learning how to get it for free. So if piracy is killing sales and all, then industries just have to accept the plain fact NOTHING will ever STOP it and legal actions companies have taken have miserably failed. Perhaps the best thing is to try to find a new way of revolutionizing a industry in a different way that will change people's minds like my own into wanting to fork out my credit card to pay. Edited by - darky on 5/6/2009 3:42:26 AM [Link]
juha Senior Member 2752 Posts 3/05	Posted - May 6 2009 : 6:48AM Darky wrote: Plus I feel justified in downloading on average 5 DVDs per day on my turbo speed road runner cable access. All that bandwidth is definitely not going to waste. Click to expand You paid your internet provider for the bandwidth. Why don't you pay your porn provider for the content? Too many people consider their internet provider as a sort of pay-TV channel. They pay the provider and get access to millions of pages of content. Edited by - juha on 5/6/2009 6:49:21 AM [Link]
juha Senior Member 2752 Posts 3/05	Posted - May 6 2009 : 6:52AM Mike Quasar wrote: Without new customers, no industry can survive. It was fun while it lasted. Click to expand What are your plans for the future? I think a cameraman of your caliber can find work in mainstream TV. [Link]
duefuss Member Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious - Brendan Gill 723 Posts 4/09	Posted - May 6 2009 : 8:35AM Steph wrote: duefuss wrote: The porn industry is bigger than the mainstream movie business. How much isn't precisely known, but I've seen sources that said it was twice as big. Click to expand Your sources are wrong. The porn industry is peanuts next to the mainstream movie biz. Click to expand Yes, they are (see: http://www.forbes.com/2001/05/25/0524porn.html which sums up what I found on the subject). I should have been more careful. But I continue to believe that it is large enough and certainly savvy enough to weathe its current hardships. [Link]
Mike Quasar Zero Tolerance Reluctant pornographer 1765 Posts 7/01	Posted - May 6 2009 : 11:00AM Darky wrote: I know a lot of you have issues with piracy so does the recording industry and Hollywood. Myself I only paid for I think 5 titles which I consider classics and a few new titles. However I must have over 1,000 adult dvds d/l from sources like Newsgroups. In this tough economy the mentality I have is every man out for himself and me spending money on porn is just not economically viable. I prefer to put that extra money away in the bank. Plus I feel justified in downloading on average 5 DVDs per day on my turbo speed road runner cable access. All that bandwidth is definitely not going to waste. Now of course the moral implications of course as most of you will think that people like me steal or hurt the industry. Honestly I do not care. In fact it does not bother me not even in the slightest. I sleep like a baby at night. I guess the worst part is millions upon millions do it. I like PORN but I love my MONEY. In fact I thought newsgroup access was something not main stream, usually its bit torrent or limewire. However whenever I go to Fry's electronics and hang out at the magazine area I hear more and more people talking about how they use Newsgroups to download a lot of movies. I guess the bottom line is millions upon millions are downloading porn for free and more and more are learning how to get it for free. So if piracy is killing sales and all, then industries just have to accept the plain fact NOTHING will ever STOP it and legal actions companies have taken have miserably failed. Perhaps the best thing is to try to find a new way of revolutionizing a industry in a different way that will change people's minds like my own into wanting to fork out my credit card to pay. Edited by - darky on 5/6/2009 3:42:26 AM Click to expand I paid for the gas in my car, so I feel justified in driving to your house, kicking in your front door and helping myself to whatever I want. I also love my money. Why should I have to pay for a plasma T.V when I can have yours? Your argument is bullshit and you are a world class douchebag. [Link]
Mike Quasar Zero Tolerance Reluctant pornographer 1765 Posts 7/01	Posted - May 6 2009 : 11:01AM juha wrote: Mike Quasar wrote: Without new customers, no industry can survive. It was fun while it lasted. Click to expand What are your plans for the future? I think a cameraman of your caliber can find work in mainstream TV. Click to expand Not with "Grand theft anal" and "Ass Cleavage" on my resume' [Link]

julien1982 Member Mean and Rude 600 Posts 7/05	Posted - May 6 2009 : 11:36AM Mike Quasar wrote: My prediction: Outside of very specialized fetish sites, new porn will not exist in 5 years. I don't care how creative and innovative, how big-budget or ambitious, the next generation will never pay for porn; ever. Without new customers, no industry can survive. Click to expand [Link]
killbillvol69 All-Star Member ^Lucy Pinder 18634 Posts 4/08	Posted - May 6 2009 : 12:43PM @Darky: Coming to a website where many of the members make their money by selling porn, and then talking about how you get it for free without permission, is tacky and insensitive at the very least, not to mention also being illegal. I'd advise you to not do that again. Obviously I'd prefer that you acquire your porn legally, but even if you decide not to, I will insist that you don't brag about breaking the law and getting porn for free when you come here to discuss with others. [Link]
Janitor Retired Porno movies, sexy videos, xxx. Adult DVD Talk at your service. 6409 Posts 11/99	Posted - May 6 2009 : 3:02PM Hey Darky, I like my money too. And people like you are stealing from every one of us. So fuck off and use someone else's bandwidth. I pay for this site's bandwidth. [Link]
duefuss Member Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious - Brendan Gill 723 Posts 4/09	Posted - May 6 2009 : 4:01PM Of course Darky and his ilk represent perhaps the major problem for the entertainment industry right now. But in the past, new technologies have often threarened. Talkies destroyed the silents. Television emptied movie theaters. cable and satelite have hurt the traditional networks. In each of these cases, the medium that was threatened at first resisted but eventually found ways to co-exist profitably with the threat. Things changed, but radio still exists and so do the networks and the movies. Now it's the internet decimating the porn and music businesses and still hurting the movie business as I understand. But I still believe that it is only a question of when not if the entertainment industry will employ effective technologies and impose regulations favorable to its profits to protect their product. It was rightly said that the entertainment industry, porn included, is intimately connected the American Corpocracy. This time of change, as businees is still feeling its way around the 'net for ways to maximize profits, will come to a close, I believe, soon, and we will see a flood of restictive new laws, fees and surcharges on internet service, ever more effective download blocking programs, etc. Once it decides what it needs to protect the bottom line, Corporate America gets it, no matter what You may be sure that a much more restricted internet is on the way. The industry prosecutions of piracy that Darky scoffs at aren't the thing of the past he thinks they are. I look for test cases to come up soon, and some unlucky movie pirates, perhaps Darky himself, being made examples of the industry's willingness to ruin those who steal its wares. [Link]
Zaer Deactivated User 249 Posts 10/07	Posted - May 6 2009 : 7:14PM Mike Quasar wrote: My prediction: Outside of very specialized fetish sites, new porn will not exist in 5 years. I don't care how creative and innovative, how big-budget or ambitious, the next generation will never pay for porn; ever. Without new customers, no industry can survive. It was fun while it lasted. The writing was on the wall with Napster. Who knew that Lars Ulrich was smarter than the entire recording industry, movie industry and porn industry. Click to expand Well the fact of the matter is the adult industry will always be around, and will still make money, just as the music industry is still around and is still making money, along with the movie industry. These industries have adapted and will continue to do so and will find ways to deal with the new technological environment and still remain profitable. Edited by - Zaer on 5/6/2009 7:14:40 PM [Link]
Derek117 Senior Member 1605 Posts 1/06	Posted - May 6 2009 : 7:53PM Mike Quasar wrote: Without new customers, no industry can survive. Click to expand True words. IMO the porn industry over the last 9 years or so forgot this, and produced more and more sexvids that turned off new customers. Piracy is the problem the industry is willing to talk about. Not the poor quality of the product over the last decade. [Link]
Hardware All-Star Member Your other left 14595 Posts 3/02	Posted - May 6 2009 : 7:59PM You know, I've played some of those 'quest' video games, and I've never come across loot and said to myself "This stuff sucks! I'm taking it." People steal stuff because they think it has value. [Link]
Chester Kingwood Member Anal Ring Toss Creator 88 Posts 2/07	Posted - May 6 2009 : 8:05PM Music labels and main stream movie companies have been around for decades with Billions in surplus set aside. Ready and capable to file law suits and fight in court over their pirated material. Most porn producers/companies will never see the day that they could afford to file law suits against sites that pirate there material. They just write them begging and hope it will come down only to find that they put it up on 5 other sites the next day. I received a letter from one of the big V.O.D. sites I have my movies on. Below is just a part of what it said: We understand that companies are having a lot of question regarding the amount of pay you where receiving has dropped as much as 50% this year. This is due to no longer being able to compete with free porn on the Tube sites and the piracy that is destroying our industry. Chester Kingwood, Clover Enterprises [Link]
Jeff Mullen Member Hall of Famer -Time to get out 219 Posts 1/08	Posted - May 6 2009 : 11:00PM As much as I hate to say this but without serious federal government intervention in the form of copyright enforcement and prosecution, there will be no porn industry in the future. I predict we are done in two years. The music business is a completely different industry with revenues from publishing, packaging, advertising, live gate, merchandising, television among other income generating areas. Porn has only one main source of income and that is content which is being given away for free. What is happening here is that there is NO incentive for the government to jump to our defense and take this type of theft seriously or to protect minors from viewing porn because by sitting back, our industry is killing off its own. The pirates are a big problem but only half of the problem as the authorized free content providers are helping to condition an audience never to purchase porn in the future. The companies that offer free scenes are just as bad as those ripping off content in my opinion as it all has the same end result. This didn't need to happen and the economy while not helping much certainly is not the main cause of the industry's demise. There is NO other way it can go as month by month you will see well-known companies folding their tents and finding something else to do. Now, here is my message to those that say adapt or die or get with the program and accept this new business model and go to internet porn. First off, we are all selling via the internet but there will be no more customers to purchase or at least not enough customers to sustain new production in the very near future. Also, just because people are viewing stolen content doesn't make it right. I love the posts about breaking into your house to steal a big screen because that is a very close comparison to what intellectual property theft is about. Most of our legislators don't have a grasp about this so we need more Pirate Bay prosecutions, more XMen Wolverine leaks in order for the mainstream world to begin the hurt which will then AND ONLY THEN lead to our government enforcing one of the biggest commandments of them all- Thou Shall Not Steal. Think about it because in a few years you will want to whack off to some new porn and the only shit you will find will be stuff you jerked off to a dozen times already. Wake up and notify your legislators and tell them to get off their ass and enforce the law. Now to those that give away tons of content now in order to make sales, pack your suitcases with money while you can as you are helping to destroy the adult movie industry. Really it is that fucking serious. By the way Not the Cosbys XXX is blowing up on YouTube and the movie comes out in June. www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2nZUn4t7nE [Link]
SexyHard Member 673 Posts 6/07	Posted - May 7 2009 : 10:54AM ^^^ You guys are standing on a goldmine, grumbling cause some guys are sitting at the surface of the mine with gardening tools digging up some of the dirt, when you should be out there getting some dynamite so that you can open the mine up. There are billions to be made selling porn on the internet.* Bitterness over pirates (aka PORN CONSUMERS) is killing the industry, not the pirates/consumers. Someone needs to go to the pirate sites, put their anger aside and ask "What are they offering consumers (besides free porn)?" and "What aren't they doing that I could do better?" Then go to Google, the #1 destination in the world for people who are looking for porn, and ask "What can I do better?" Then get some free music software (like Limewire) and go to iTunes, and ask "How did iTunes out-compete the free stuff?" Then read "The Long Tail," then reread it. Then read over the pages of notes you should have taken while reading it. Get together with some friends, and have a few brainstorming sessions. Then go up to Silicon Valley, hang out around Stanford, network, and find 4 or 5 really smart people, offer them seats on your advisory board, and brainstorm with them. At that point, you will probably know what you need to do to turn the pirates into paying customers. If you have selected your advisory board well, you will probably have someone on it who can draft a business plan. Hire a lawyer to draft your compliance documents, and someone else on your advisory board should be able to put you in touch with VC. Go out, get a haircut, buy a nice suit, and have fun. (Silicon Valley VC firms would probably run from you, but I would imagine that many of the individuals who do VC would be happy to invest in a good plan with good people. If not, you could pool a number of small investors from Porn Valley. If you can't do that, you don't have a good plan with good people, so you need to go back to the "form an advisory board" step.) Or, if you prefer, you can gripe. * Larry and Serge would probably the richest people in porn if the ONLY source of their income were porn, I just did a google keyword search, it wouldn't let me check "porn" for some reason, but there were 25 Million searches just on "boobs" last month. I don't know what fraction of google searches are converted into ad-clicks or how much the word "boobs" sells for. Still, the minimum price per click at google is $0.05, and "boobs" is rated as "Very high advertiser competition." I also know from my site that MY CUT is almost always more than $0.10 for low-competition words like "dry ice." More than 10% of the searches on my site convert to clicks. Let's say in the real world 1% of searches convert and the average click is worth $0.10, then google brought in $25,000 just on the word "boobs" just in the month of April. This conservative estimate would work out to $300,000/year, just on the word "boobs". "Tits," "fuck," "anal," and "porn" are all additional sources of revenue for Google. Your goal should be to take this money from Google. They are the #1 porn site in the world, and they aren't even a porn site. It's probably much more. Maybe people who purchase ad words could tell us. [Link]

fu_q All-Star Member Marv Montag (@PornOfYore) 2506 Posts 2/09	Posted - May 7 2009 : 11:26AM What about sites that are legit but have essentially limitless content? I have been a member of a few of these sites, and being a member definitely made me more picky when buying DVDs. In essence, there was more porn than I could ever possibly want--all for, say, $15 a month (give or take). I know that they're legit, but could these sites be hurting the industry? If you're just an average guy who wants porn--and who doesn't necessarily follow every new release, etc.--I think that one of these sites would be good enough for life. This is especially true given that a lot of the sites allow for a download-to-own scheme. (All of which, of course, is great for the consumer...but I'm not so sure it's great for the adult industry in general.) Edited by - fu_q on 5/7/2009 11:27:58 AM [Link]
juha Senior Member 2752 Posts 3/05	Posted - May 7 2009 : 11:31AM Sexyhard, basically you're saying they should give away the content for free and make a living on the ad-clicks. This doesn't make any sense. If the consumers get everything for free no content provider pays for placing an ad. Google can make money on "boobs", "tits" and "fuck" searches because companies still hope to sell content to the consumers who were driven to their site by the google search. Present example: Coctomom ad on ADT. Devils Film pays ADT because they hope to sell the film to ADT users. They would stop to advertise if all members had Darky's attitude. Edited by - juha on 5/7/2009 11:32:43 AM [Link]
Mike Quasar Zero Tolerance Reluctant pornographer 1765 Posts 7/01	Posted - May 7 2009 : 11:40AM ^ A very well thought and well intentioned post out post. I wasn't saying that there was no way to make money selling porn on the internet, of course there is, but the tube sites and pirate sites are cutting into that as well. Itunes indeed proves that if you give people a good product, some of them will pay for it. The convenience and ease of use coupled with the seamless integration with the ipod has made itunes one of the few success stories, however, many more people download from file sharing sites than from itunes. The closest thing we have to itunes is the vod sites and they'll tell you that an abundance of free porn and piracy has cut into their bottom line. As for your point about finding out what people are willing to pay for: If you asked a person who was stealing your car what you could do differently to make them want to buy your car, they would probably laugh and then hit you with a tire iron. And turning all of those clicks into dollars is exactly what the tube sites are trying to do by generating enormous amounts of traffic for free content at the expense of the industry as a whole. Edited by - mike quasar on 5/7/2009 11:41:37 AM [Link]
Jamie Gardner Member demicomix.com Carnal Comics - True Stories of Adult Film Stars 105 Posts 6/04	Posted - May 7 2009 : 11:40AM I think a big thing that has hurt the x-rated industry is that many video stores, that carried porn, have closed down. Before the internet, most porn fans rented x-rated movies at video stores with adult sections. These stores mostly carried non-porn movies. Most of the independently owned stores were knocked out of business by the chain stores. Of the chain stores that carried porn, Tower Records and video closed all their stores. Wherehouse Music has closed many stores but is still around. Wherehouse Music mostly carries titles from the big mainstream companies such as Vivid Video, Digital Playground, etc.. People were much less in to buying porn movies in the 1980s and early 90s but the video companies could make money off of selling the videos to the stores. Even though many people made copies of the movies they rented, the video company made money from the videos that were sold to stores. There were some videotapes starting out at suggested retails of $100. This was especially true at the beginning of the x-rated video industry. When DVDs came around many people started buying porn movies rather then rent them because the price of DVDs is much less then videos. At first the internet helped the porn industry by taking the place of video stores. This was true until torrents and tube sites became so popular. Many of the free tube sites have not paid for the rights to show most of the movies on their sites so the company not only makes less money of someone not buying their movies, they don't get paid anything! http://www.myspace.com/jamieralphgardner http://www.demidemonessmovie.com http://www.demicomix.com/Carnal01.htm http://groups.yahoo.com/group/carnalcomics Edited by - Jamie Gardner on 5/7/2009 11:42:26 AM [Link]
Mike Quasar Zero Tolerance Reluctant pornographer 1765 Posts 7/01	Posted - May 7 2009 : 11:52AM fu_q wrote: What about sites that are legit but have essentially limitless content? I have been a member of a few of these sites, and being a member definitely made me more picky when buying DVDs. In essence, there was more porn than I could ever possibly want--all for, say, $15 a month (give or take). I know that they're legit, but could these sites be hurting the industry? If you're just an average guy who wants porn--and who doesn't necessarily follow every new release, etc.--I think that one of these sites would be good enough for life. This is especially true given that a lot of the sites allow for a download-to-own scheme. (All of which, of course, is great for the consumer...but I'm not so sure it's great for the adult industry in general.) Edited by - fu_q on 5/7/2009 11:27:58 AM Click to expand What you're getting from a lot of the sites is very old content or content from 2nd and 3rd tier companies but you get so much of it that it kind of feeds into the pizza analogy: even bad pizza is usually good enough. It's unfortunate but many companies have come and gone over the years or have gotten into financial trouble and they've sold their content for pennies on the dollar to sites like these which in turn makes all content that much less valuable. [Link]
themadride Member 75 Posts 1/09	Posted - May 7 2009 : 11:53AM I'm 26. Not sure if I'm young enough to count as the "next generation", but here goes: I have bought VHS. I have bought DVD. I have burned cds from friends collections. I have downloaded illegally. But mostly, and for some time now I subsribe to sites where I download the content that I like to my own computer. VHS degraded DVD is easily ruined Downloading illegally only works if you are not picky There was a time when renting a DVD was the economic choice because of the cost of ownership. With massive digital storage devices a whole new world opens up. I can keep a lifetimes worth of porn in a 4"x6" external harddrive. No boxes, no dust, no worries. Nothing for visitors to see. Password protected and hidden so my children can't see and won't find. Speaking personally, I spent on average $50/month of porn subscriptions. Some months I have none, some months several. As of right now...I am going crazy over Bobbi Star who I just discoverd (who knows why it took me so long). I will likely join several websites in the next few weeks just to try to expand my collection of her. The websites that offer a billion random movies for $9.99 are fine for people who only rarely watch porn or have little/no collection. I pay a premium to obtain movies that fit a specific niche or feature a future girl. The porn industry of tomorrow will have to develope niches within itself and generate more "exclusive content". I was listening to an interview with Bobbi Star who told of a very hot scene that had been cut from a film. If I could access that footage now for a premium I would pay handsomely. Now, for everyone who wonders about if the "next generation" will pay up. It's important to remember that the "next generation" not only uses file-sharing sites because they want to get something for free. BUT THEY HAVE VERY LITTLE MONEY! I couldn't drop $50/month for something like this for many years. Now..my tastes are more refined and my bank account can handle those specific tastes. Two more quick things: 1) If porn continues to become more "main stream", other areas of profit will emerge. There could be "in-film" product advertising just like feature blockbusters. There could be posters. Video games. On and on. 2) Everyone knows there is a thin line between pornography and prostitution. It may be a touchy subject, but if the two were not somewhat related...then why do so many pornstars provide escort services? I have read that several stars, such as Carmella Bing simply do movies as a way to keep popular and drive up demand for their escorting service which pays much more. If prostitution was ever legalized across the board I am willing to bet almost every pornstar would provide. I could be wrong, but even now many do for exactly this reason. Finally, I think that money will continue to flow into the industry. The issue becomes market share as more companies emerge. Unlike the old (not too distand past) days where a Niche site would update once a week or bi-weekly or never...I believe they will have better luck updating exclusive content very frequently and charging a premium for that site. There are several sites that I only join every few months. Not only do they not get my 29.99 some months, but I would gladly pay 49.99 for twice as many updates and would be unlikely to let my membership expire. Finally finally,...As long as new hot girls come into the business someone will pay to watch them. Everytime I tell my wife my collection should be complete soon and my harddrive full....here comes a new starlet who's entire anthology I must own (Bobbi Star). Off I go to Best Buy and out comes the credit card for a half-dozen sites. [Link]
Janitor Retired Porno movies, sexy videos, xxx. Adult DVD Talk at your service. 6409 Posts 11/99	Posted - May 7 2009 : 12:01PM SexyHard wrote: Then go to Google, the #1 destination in the world for people who are looking for porn, and ask "What can I do better?" Click to expand It's Google who's killing the porn industry. Most searches lead to torrent sites. We have very good search engine rankings - most of our 50,000+ visitors per day come from search engines. But we don't rank anywhere near the torrent sites. I can vote down those listings with my google account. There's not much more we can do to ask google not to promote those sites. Porn companies cannot compete with Google for search engine market share. If huge companies like Yahoo can't compete how are startup porn companies going to compete? Doesn't matter how many silicon valley hot shots are on staff. I'm not just bitching and doing nothing. I'm starting post-porn businesses. [Link]
SexyHard Member 673 Posts 6/07	Posted - May 7 2009 : 12:01PM juha wrote: Sexyhard, basically you're saying they should give away the content for free and make a living on the ad-clicks. ... Click to expand Sorry you completely misunderstood me. I mentioned ad-clicks to show how much money is already being made by a company that isn't even a porn company. I was saying, "Stop griping, develop a plan, and execute it." I have a few ideas in my head, but I'm not going through the process of starting a company, because I don't want to devote my working life to porn. [Link]
juha Senior Member 2752 Posts 3/05	Posted - May 7 2009 : 1:51PM themadride wrote: Now, for everyone who wonders about if the "next generation" will pay up. It's important to remember that the "next generation" not only uses file-sharing sites because they want to get something for free. BUT THEY HAVE VERY LITTLE MONEY! Click to expand It's important to remember that "next generations" always had very little money. But in the past college boys purchased a VHS every couple of months or rented VHS from a video store. They learned to pay for porn and to treasure their collection. Today's "next generation" already has a big harddrive full of stolen porn before graduation. This generation never learned to save up for a DVD of their favourite girl. [Link]
SexyHard Member 673 Posts 6/07	Posted - May 7 2009 : 2:00PM Steph wrote: SexyHard wrote: Then go to Google, the #1 destination in the world for people who are looking for porn, and ask "What can I do better?" Click to expand It's Google who's killing the porn industry.... Click to expand Again you're griping. I hope your post-porn business thrives, but I still think there are billions to be made in porn. I think you identified the right market opportunity with "recommendations." Remember, every single one of those people searching on Google is looking for porn, and unless they search for a word like "porn," they are telling google exactly what kind of porn they like. The consumer is out there. They are announcing what they want, and you have the means to deliver it to them instantly. And the porn industry is griping that the internet is going to kill them?!?!? Most (all?) long tail successes succeed by connecting the consumer to the product they want. iTunes offers a suite of free services, the key ones for porn come down to the ability to try out the content and recommendation services. The later include recommendations that you see on the front page and playlists that other music fans have made. The iTunes player itself is a very good free product, and it integrates well with their mp3 player. Most importantly, you can try out 30 sec of the product before purchasing it at a very reasonable price. I don't think this model can simply be ported to porn. Porn CAN adopt Apple's willingness to say, "The old distribution model is dead. Let's see what we can build on its grave." Developing a service that will meet the needs of porn consumers, and convert them into customers will take originality, work, and money. Unless you go with advertising, you will need a process to convert the consumers into customers. I would look more to Pandora (with a different monetization strategy) than iTunes. Consumers will give up their contact information in exchange for easy access to their favorites and a really good recommendation engine. Porn IS a long-tail industry. (Have you ever seen Hollywood make a movie called "Jaguars Chasing Mini-Coopers #23"?) More importantly, I don't think a lot of porn consumers really know WHY they like what they like. (I think I like Gianna's tits, but she's the only mega-tit star that would place in my top-10, and frankly some of her scenes have left me cold. Maybe it's her dirty talk, in which case I should only check out scenes that have clear sound. A good recommendation engine could figure these things out pretty quickly.) Converting the users to buyers is the hard part. I would imagine you could offer something like a higher quality feed, or maybe niche offerings. I would personally purchase videos of sexy girls (especially the stars) masturbating while watching the scene. I would also be ready to send the star a "thank you" gift with a personal note, especially if I was in a post-orgasmic glow. (I could see when you log-off, a window comes up with the star of the last scene smiling at the customer and saying, "Bye honey, I hope you had a good time. If so, let me know, and I'll have a special surprise for you when you cum back." The timing might be a challenge. It might be better to send an email saying "Now that your all nice and clean....") Other niche strategies might work for other customers. Porn touches on deep emotions that come very close to sexual love. People using porn are in a state of mind that has been designed by millions of years of evolution to make us do irrational things like become parents and get married. This could lead to unique monetization strategies. The consumers may not need to buy anything. Advertising would also be a possible revenue source; it seems to work for Hulu. I would probably focus more on direct response advertising than brand advertising.* One of the great things about porn for sellers is that the customers aren't thinking rationally when they are using the product. The internet, for the first time, gives porn-sellers access to customers at the moment when impulse purchases are most likely. Any fool can see how a Hulu-like service could make money in Nevada. ("Hi, my name is Brandi. I see you like Gianna... well I love her too. (Unbuttons her blouse) If you like these, I can be in your room in just 20 minutes, and we can watch her together. If not, I've got lots of friends. Click here.") Stop griping. Sick of paying the rent on your warehouse? OK, don't. Printing DVD's a pain.... Huh? Whats a DVD? Middle man taking a cut? Go straight to your customer. Distribution costs? Well, it ain't nothing, but according to Moore's law, it should be half what it is today in just 18 months. The development process would involve throwing some stuff on the wall to see what sticks. Google focused their original efforts on developing a good search engine. They didn't include advertising in their original business plan, and resisted it for a few years. Now they are the biggest ad seller in the world. * My guess is that Hulu will move in this direction. Their customers still think they are advertising on TV. They're not. Even if they can't capture the sale while the customer is on Hulu, they should at least be able to capture the customer's information. There's more room for improvement in Hulu. For one, I don't think they know anything about me except my IP address. I've seen no reason to join yet. [Link]
Janitor Retired Porno movies, sexy videos, xxx. Adult DVD Talk at your service. 6409 Posts 11/99	Posted - May 7 2009 : 3:23PM Discussing reality is not griping. If I cared to spend my life building a porn business I would. I don't. Neither do most people tangentially involved in the industry. I can't believe ADT is still here and I'm still here. The reality for consumers is more shitty product. Less opportunity to make money means less professionals involved in the industry. [Link]
Prophit Member 378 Posts 1/07	Posted - May 7 2009 : 3:54PM Mike Quasar wrote: fu_q wrote: What about sites that are legit but have essentially limitless content? I have been a member of a few of these sites, and being a member definitely made me more picky when buying DVDs. In essence, there was more porn than I could ever possibly want--all for, say, $15 a month (give or take). I know that they're legit, but could these sites be hurting the industry? If you're just an average guy who wants porn--and who doesn't necessarily follow every new release, etc.--I think that one of these sites would be good enough for life. This is especially true given that a lot of the sites allow for a download-to-own scheme. (All of which, of course, is great for the consumer...but I'm not so sure it's great for the adult industry in general.) Edited by - fu_q on 5/7/2009 11:27:58 AM Click to expand What you're getting from a lot of the sites is very old content or content from 2nd and 3rd tier companies but you get so much of it that it kind of feeds into the pizza analogy: even bad pizza is usually good enough. It's unfortunate but many companies have come and gone over the years or have gotten into financial trouble and they've sold their content for pennies on the dollar to sites like these which in turn makes all content that much less valuable. Click to expand You know which site I was thinking of when reading fu_q's post? Ztod.com! I know it's not exactly what he meant but it's a similar situation because you are practically throwing your whole catalogue at the consumer for just 30 Dollars a month. Doesn't this kinda make your retail releases less valuable too? Why would anyone ever buy a Zero Tolerance DVD again when he can download not just one but dozens of ZT movies (even in HD) for just 30$? And it's not only Zero Tolerance you also get thirdmovies.com and blackicepass to boot. It's too good a deal and it's definitely spoiling the customer (not that I'm complaining because obviously I love those sites). But I for one would be willing to pay for downloads on a per-movie basis. Let's say 15$ for the latest movie in 1080p (which I can keep of course). But I guess I must be the minority... [Link]
SexyHard Member 673 Posts 6/07	Posted - May 7 2009 : 4:56PM Steph wrote: Discussing reality is not griping. If I cared to spend my life building a porn business I would. I don't. Neither do most people tangentially involved in the industry. I can't believe ADT is still here and I'm still here. The reality for consumers is more shitty product. Less opportunity to make money means less professionals involved in the industry. Click to expand I used "you" in two different ways. Sometimes I meant "Steph," usually I meant "the industry." I disagree that there is "less opportunity to make money." I believe that there is more. Look at Ebay: Who thought there was so much money in garage sales? Google: Larry and Serge are the richest Librarians in human history. Amazon: I thought "Barnes and Noble" and "Borders" were huge. And Gosh, there were a lot of shitty books sitting on their shelves. Facebook: You mean I can make money helping people track down their friends from 20 years ago? YouTube: There's money in home videos? You gotta be joking. I see a multi-billion dollar opportunity out there. It's basically the same as every long-tail success, namely connecting the individual consumer with the product that THEY want. Let me share my history as a porn consumer. When I started out, I needed to go to a movie theater. There were only two that were accessible to me. One was cleaner, and I wasn't interested in getting $5 blowjobs from junkies, so in reality there was only one for me. They showed three titles every week. And the industry didn't need to produce many more than three titles. There was no need to figure out what I wanted to watch, because I would watch whatever was playing. The VHS and DVD changed that. Suddenly I had choices. But the choices were limited to what was on the shelves. I got to know some of the girls, companies and directors. I would usually rent two at a time, because there was about a 50% chance that I would like a particular title. I'm still stuck in the DVD, and use the internet very little. Mainly, I want to watch porn on my TV and with good quality. I expect that some day soon, I will stop watching DVD's. This will give me the opportunity to watch whatever I want, whether or not my video store stocks it, at a moment's notice. My problem will be "Too many fucking choices." The fact that there is so much shitty product out there IS the opportunity. I couldn't wade through the shit in two lifetimes, neither could you, but for a computer, it's a 5 millisecond job. If someone can help me deal with the massive amounts of shitty porn out there, they will have a customer. This is essentially Steph's business model, but the process is complicated. Customers need to read reviews, make a decision, and then maybe, just maybe, some of us will click through to buy the DVD, and Steph gets her cut. But, lets be honest, most consumers don't want to read reviews or buy porn. Most paying customers rent. Steph doesn't make a nickel if I go to the rental store and grab a DVD based on reviews I read. But with the death of the DVD, you can go straight from recommendation, to delivery, to monetization. If you can automate the recommendation process, and link that directly to monetization, there is a goldmine. I'm fed up for two reasons: 1) They are standing on a gold mine, and complaining that they aren't selling as many DVD's as they used to. 2) There was a time when people said, "Porn is leading the way in adoption of new technologies, and Hollywood is learning from porn." [Link]
poloprinz Member We didn't bring a compass 'cause we ain't got nowhere to go 173 Posts 4/09	Posted - May 7 2009 : 6:47PM I'am not an insider, so i can't hudge how urgent the troubles of the porn industry are. I can only see the whole thing from a customer standpoint, which is: Like many people, i get hooked on a girl, then want to see more of her. Now when i join a site because it seems to offer quality content from, say, two performers i started to like, then download (or rather, try to) those scenes and one scene is fucked up by off-sync audio (and improperly titled/switched with a scene from a different girl) and the other i simply cannot dl at all, i feel a little weird. Especially if i try to contact them about the issue, and even after weeks nothing is done about it. Sure, i could become a 6-month (or even longer) member to see when they get it done. But, honestly, wtf? I don't dl from the tubes for a variety of reasons. I can understand that running a site that provides the massive content that you need to make an impression is a complicated task because if you hire too many people to make everything perfect, it's probably not cost-effective any more, since the profit is already lower than dvd sales (is it? Depends on why customers become members, what they dl, how long they stay members, and there's they question if they'd bought the dvd if there wasn't the possibility of dl. And probably a whole lot of other things i can't think of right now). But, on the other hand, many customers aren't like this. If you sell them a defective car, they won't buy your product any more, the'll buy someone else's. Or, in the case of porn, they just illegally dl it. I'm not saying that all are like this. Many are probably the pirate type anyway that never buys anything. You can't do anything to get them to pay for it. Many might buy some content and steal other content. But those who really want to support the content producers, because they are not stupid and know that if this industry is dying, there will be no more new porn, might be turned down by bad customer service. And if you have content up that's not properly encoded or not cared for in other ways, that's some sort of bad customer service. And this stuff happens on a lot of internet sites. Sorry if this has gotten a bit long. If it comes off as beating around the bush too much - i just try not to be offensive. [Link]
Mike Quasar Zero Tolerance Reluctant pornographer 1765 Posts 7/01	Posted - May 7 2009 : 7:10PM Prophit wrote: You know which site I was thinking of when reading fu_q's post? Ztod.com! I know it's not exactly what he meant but it's a similar situation because you are practically throwing your whole catalogue at the consumer for just 30 Dollars a month. Doesn't this kinda make your retail releases less valuable too? Why would anyone ever buy a Zero Tolerance DVD again when he can download not just one but dozens of ZT movies (even in HD) for just 30$? And it's not only Zero Tolerance you also get thirdmovies.com and blackicepass to boot. It's too good a deal and it's definitely spoiling the customer (not that I'm complaining because obviously I love those sites). But I for one would be willing to pay for downloads on a per-movie basis. Let's say 15$ for the latest movie in 1080p (which I can keep of course). But I guess I must be the minority... Click to expand You're exactly right and I wish we didn't do it that way because I think our content is more valuable than that and I would love to switch to an itunes-type model, but it is what it is, as they say. It's tough to compete with videosz and videbox-type sites when they give you the moon for very little money. [Link]
fu_q All-Star Member Marv Montag (@PornOfYore) 2506 Posts 2/09	Posted - May 7 2009 : 7:19PM ^I would love to see an itunes-like format for the ztod.com site. I want some of the scenes, but I don't want to to subscribe to sites any more...and I don't want to be overwhelmed with trying to download everything that I "can" download. Perhaps I'm weird, but I would much prefer this to the everything-for-$30-per-month format. [Link]

Author

Post

JustforKicks
Member

15 Posts
4/09

Posted - Apr 19 2009 : 5:10PM

Zaer wrote:
JustforKicks wrote:
^ What good is modicum control of something that is going to be stolen right from you wallet? If its going to end up on the internet eventually why put money in making a product that you know is going to be stolen? That's crazy talk! What's the point of giving a lower cost if you can't beat free you can never go low enough. It's stolen then then given away. Na who would want to put up the money and time for a movie, if you can't make a paycheck for your work.
Click to expand
Well it's either the content producers have a modicum of control over their content and make money off their content or have no real control at all and continue to lose profit.
Furthermore all digitizable content ends up on the internet eventually anyway, that's not what matters, it's simply a known fact. What matters is whether or not a content producer can make money off the content that they know is going to end up on the internet eventually anyway. And the facts indicate that they can.
Wow it might not matter to you but I beat the people that are getting rob of their paycheck it matters! Just because something going to happen eventually does not make it right! It's the frame of mind and the willingness to do the right thing that will bring about change. If we just give in that's just a cop-out!
How do you figure the facts indicate that they can make enough money to do business and create the quality of content we all love soo much that it brings us to these boards on our spare time? We hear time and again that this is effecting the industry in such a huge way and not by one company but a whole slew of them. If ton of people came up to me and said their stores or homes are being rob, why would I not believe them?
And contrary to what some believe, you can actually beat free, namely by giving people more convenient and faster access to content than they would get through free means. And it can be done it's just a matter of thinking about the problem and figuring out the best way to do it.
First why do you have to think about how to beat free when its someone Stealing from you? I would be trying to figure out how to get the crooks out of my home no matter what the odds!
Second how fast is fast enough for you? Dam it don't take much time to go to store and Buy/Rent and if you have Pay on Demand faster still. What do you want the movie implanted in your brain the day before it comes out, so its a memory? Dam shit is fast now a days!
And they can make money off their movies they just have to be willing to give the consumers what they want.
I don't know what you expect from these movies but it's clear that the companies do give consumers what they want way more then another industry. They have the hottest girls fucked to the moon and back, dam man, double this double that. Feet, hair, no hair, armpits, ass what do you want them to make smelly-vision too? They take freaking requests of all things. Straight from the Fans!!! Plus the more popular something is the more it getting file shared so I can't see the point of them dumping more money into good shit
Click to expand

Edited by - JustforKicks on 4/19/2009 5:13:07 PM

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simmond
Member

"Survive the droughts, I wish you well"........ Jay Z, American Dreamin
56 Posts
2/09

Posted - Apr 19 2009 : 7:16PM

Draxxx wrote:
The question I have is why isnt the industry selling more units. The fact that the largest selling films of the industrys history were features seems to suggest to me that that is the direction we probably should go in if we want to appeal to more of the mainstream. Now before you respond that gonzo is selling more now, realize that what Im talking about is expanding the total universe of porn consumers. Seems to me that the way to make the industry less vulnerable to piracy is to make more people want to buy our content. Seems to me that the films that have done that, and come close to doing that, were features.
Click to expand
You're basically talking about a handful of heavily hyped movies. If you look at the sales charts on any given month there are much more often than not many more "gonzo" movies in the top 20 than features. I'm looking at the TOP 100 OVERALL sales chart right now and there's only 3 features in the top 20. The rest of the 20 is made up of DIGITAL PLAYGROUND, EVIL ANGEL, ELEGANT ANGEL and JULES JORDAN movies.
The #1 movie is the VIVID release with that woman who appeared on the soap opera. I'd imagine the reason for the strong sales of that movie is the curiosity/hype factor of having a "mainstream" actress in a porn movie. Despite the fact that VIVID mostly puts out features they only have two more movies in the top 50 and one of them is a Jenna Jameson movie.
Features in general aren't the biggest sellers. They may generate more money because the companies that make them have an easier time selling them to cable outlets and that's where the bulk of the profit is made for the companies that produce them. But typically the higher end "gonzo" companies dominate the charts. The heavily hyped big budget features do well but just doing a feature doesn't mean you'll have a big or strong seller.
If you're talking about features selling better years ago...of course they did because there weren't as many options back then. Plus the gonzo stuff at one time was seen as "low grade" porn.
Click to expand

My original question was " why isnt the industry moving more units". When a typical Jenna Jameson title sold over 100k copies, and a different title that sells only 5k is considered succesful there is something wrong. Thats about a 20 fold difference between the universe of typical porn buyers and the universe of potential porn buyers. The problem may be worse than that given that "Piratesxxx" in all likelyhood sold in the seven figures.
A smart industry will market itself as to attract the casual consumer.
For example. Lets call me a casual baseball fan. Im fluent in rules of the game. I'll watch mabey 10 regular season games a year. I'll watch the world series, the all star game, and if one I one my favorite teams is on TV I will watch them if its an important game. If Major League Baseball wants to get me to spend more money on baseball or at least watch more baseball they will have to start by putting the teams I like on TV. So they would put the Dodgers, the Redsox, the Angels, mabey the Yankees on TV. Now the Oakland As and the Minnesota Twins might be fine teams, they may even be objectively better. Perhaps the hardcore baseball fan would prefer to see those teams or the Phillies and the Tigers in the world series. But I dont. Therefore Im not going to watch the those teams play. As I didnt watch last years series.
Now the question is, to what extent can an industry sustain itself as It sells itself to the the casual consumer. Obvious, casula consumers dont purchase alot of your product, hence the word "casual". I think the answer lies in asking how many porn DVDs does the average casual consumer have in their library. I think the average consumer has about three or four. I think the average porn consumer has Deepthroat, or The Devil in Mrs Jones, or Behind the Green Door, Debbie Does Dallas. One or two of the classics. I think they also have Pirates, and a Jenna Jameson movie. And thats it. I know in my family, my dad had one movie. I dont even remember the name of it. My dad likes porn, but its just not that important to him. But if he happened to to see a trailer of an adult film, and he got the impression from that trailer that he would probably enjoy it, in addition to being able to jerk off to it, he'd probably spend 30 bucks on it.
The porn industry has to make it so that the average family, that isnt a family of religious nuts has about 10 porn DVDs. Those people arn't gonna download porn. And the universe of those consumers is much larger. I understand that the hardcore consumer is preferring Gonzo. But the hardcore consumer isnt going to save this industry.
Edited by - simmond on 4/19/2009 7:21:51 PM
Edited by - simmond on 4/19/2009 7:24:26 PM

[Link]

JustforKicks
Member

15 Posts
4/09

Posted - Apr 20 2009 : 1:55AM

Seems to me like you answered your own Question Simmond by naming Star Power Jenna Jameson. Her movies can suck and they still sell ( I'm not saying here movies suck!) it has nothing to do with any one company or the talent of the director or crew.
It drives me kinda nuts when i start off saying I heard of this new film coming out in theaters its suppose to be hot want to go see it and the first thing I get back is "who's in it?" I'm thinking I hope its no one I know. But for most people they will not go see a movie unless they has some major name.
I bet if every studio could shoot Jenna Jameson they would or any of the other girls in Piratesxxx

[Link]

SexyHard
Member

673 Posts
6/07

Posted - Apr 20 2009 : 8:16PM

^^^
It's funny, I think the average porn consumer doesn't own any porn, but only rents once in a while.

[Link]

fu_q

All-Star Member

Marv Montag (@PornOfYore)
2506 Posts
2/09

Posted - Apr 21 2009 : 11:40PM

Here's a relevant / interesting article from AVN:
http://business.avn.com/articles/35077.html

[Link]

AlisonHart
New Member

1 Posts
4/09

Posted - Apr 25 2009 : 1:51AM

Since this started out as a thread about Stormy's future plans, folks might be interested in Gram Ponante's latest blog post. It appears that Stormy is taking the suggestion to run for office seriously:

Full article: Gram Ponante: Stormy Daniels wins key endorsement

[Link]

Mike_Rach
Member

89 Posts
10/03

Posted - Apr 25 2009 : 9:12AM

simmond wrote:
My original question was " why isnt the industry moving more units". When a typical Jenna Jameson title sold over 100k copies, and a different title that sells only 5k is considered succesful there is something wrong. Thats about a 20 fold difference between the universe of typical porn buyers and the universe of potential porn buyers. The problem may be worse than that given that "Piratesxxx" in all likelyhood sold in the seven figures.
A smart industry will market itself as to attract the casual consumer.
For example. Lets call me a casual baseball fan. Im fluent in rules of the game. I'll watch mabey 10 regular season games a year. I'll watch the world series, the all star game, and if one I one my favorite teams is on TV I will watch them if its an important game. If Major League Baseball wants to get me to spend more money on baseball or at least watch more baseball they will have to start by putting the teams I like on TV. So they would put the Dodgers, the Redsox, the Angels, mabey the Yankees on TV. Now the Oakland As and the Minnesota Twins might be fine teams, they may even be objectively better. Perhaps the hardcore baseball fan would prefer to see those teams or the Phillies and the Tigers in the world series. But I dont. Therefore Im not going to watch the those teams play. As I didnt watch last years series.
Now the question is, to what extent can an industry sustain itself as It sells itself to the the casual consumer. Obvious, casula consumers dont purchase alot of your product, hence the word "casual". I think the answer lies in asking how many porn DVDs does the average casual consumer have in their library. I think the average consumer has about three or four. I think the average porn consumer has Deepthroat, or The Devil in Mrs Jones, or Behind the Green Door, Debbie Does Dallas. One or two of the classics. I think they also have Pirates, and a Jenna Jameson movie. And thats it. I know in my family, my dad had one movie. I dont even remember the name of it. My dad likes porn, but its just not that important to him. But if he happened to to see a trailer of an adult film, and he got the impression from that trailer that he would probably enjoy it, in addition to being able to jerk off to it, he'd probably spend 30 bucks on it.
The porn industry has to make it so that the average family, that isnt a family of religious nuts has about 10 porn DVDs. Those people arn't gonna download porn. And the universe of those consumers is much larger. I understand that the hardcore consumer is preferring Gonzo. But the hardcore consumer isnt going to save this industry.
Edited by - simmond on 4/19/2009 7:21:51 PM
Edited by - simmond on 4/19/2009 7:24:26 PM
Click to expand

simmond makes a good point... I'm sure piracy is a factor, but it's there for Hollywood too.
Porn is probably also a victim of itself in a way - the sheer amount of porn produced every year. Most people rent it. For me, it doesn't have nearly as much replay value as a Hollywood flick. Then there is so much new content, why watch the same stuff over and over again? It's not like porn is the type of fare that you have sitting on your media rack, and gather round the couches and watch with friends or family.
If a successful gonzo flick is 5000 copies, I can't be the only one with a similar opinion.

[Link]

RandomPrecision
Senior Member

Enjoy!
8175 Posts
3/06

Posted - Apr 25 2009 : 11:08AM

OK. It was a figure of speech. The way we would like to (I guess) is a better way to say it.
Most of the male performers appear bored at best.
Edited by - randomprecision on 4/25/2009 11:11:28 AM

[Link]

JUSTWRONG69
Member

100 Posts
10/08

Posted - May 4 2009 : 9:44PM

Invest money, and lets get women like this "earnin". Make them rich, and we get to enjoy every minute.. Can you imagine seeing this in anal? My, My, My.. It is Racquel Darrian all over again (but give them more to do more). I am dying to see Veronika Zemanova do mainstream, but she made too much doing nada.
April Bowlby plays a ditsy red-head on "Two and half men". Plenty of bikini and scenes where director plays to her sex appeal. I would love to see this fine ass do porn.. please!!! Man, we have made it if it ever happened. She would make anyone lose a load in her panties, much less doing a porn and die if she went all the way.

[Link]

JUSTWRONG69
Member

100 Posts
10/08

Posted - May 4 2009 : 10:51PM

Mike_Rach wrote:
simmond wrote:
My original question was " why isnt the industry moving more units". When a typical Jenna Jameson title sold over 100k copies, and a different title that sells only 5k is considered succesful there is something wrong. Thats about a 20 fold difference between the universe of typical porn buyers and the universe of potential porn buyers. The problem may be worse than that given that "Piratesxxx" in all likelyhood sold in the seven figures.
A smart industry will market itself as to attract the casual consumer.
For example. Lets call me a casual baseball fan. Im fluent in rules of the game. I'll watch mabey 10 regular season games a year. I'll watch the world series, the all star game, and if one I one my favorite teams is on TV I will watch them if its an important game. If Major League Baseball wants to get me to spend more money on baseball or at least watch more baseball they will have to start by putting the teams I like on TV. So they would put the Dodgers, the Redsox, the Angels, mabey the Yankees on TV. Now the Oakland As and the Minnesota Twins might be fine teams, they may even be objectively better. Perhaps the hardcore baseball fan would prefer to see those teams or the Phillies and the Tigers in the world series. But I dont. Therefore Im not going to watch the those teams play. As I didnt watch last years series.
Now the question is, to what extent can an industry sustain itself as It sells itself to the the casual consumer. Obvious, casula consumers dont purchase alot of your product, hence the word "casual". I think the answer lies in asking how many porn DVDs does the average casual consumer have in their library. I think the average consumer has about three or four. I think the average porn consumer has Deepthroat, or The Devil in Mrs Jones, or Behind the Green Door, Debbie Does Dallas. One or two of the classics. I think they also have Pirates, and a Jenna Jameson movie. And thats it. I know in my family, my dad had one movie. I dont even remember the name of it. My dad likes porn, but its just not that important to him. But if he happened to to see a trailer of an adult film, and he got the impression from that trailer that he would probably enjoy it, in addition to being able to jerk off to it, he'd probably spend 30 bucks on it.
The porn industry has to make it so that the average family, that isnt a family of religious nuts has about 10 porn DVDs. Those people arn't gonna download porn. And the universe of those consumers is much larger. I understand that the hardcore consumer is preferring Gonzo. But the hardcore consumer isnt going to save this industry.
Edited by - simmond on 4/19/2009 7:21:51 PM
Edited by - simmond on 4/19/2009 7:24:26 PM
Click to expand
simmond makes a good point... I'm sure piracy is a factor, but it's there for Hollywood too.
Porn is probably also a victim of itself in a way - the sheer amount of porn produced every year. Most people rent it. For me, it doesn't have nearly as much replay value as a Hollywood flick. Then there is so much new content, why watch the same stuff over and over again? It's not like porn is the type of fare that you have sitting on your media rack, and gather round the couches and watch with friends or family.
If a successful gonzo flick is 5000 copies, I can't be the only one with a similar opinion.
Click to expand

Let's do this...
I have never rented "Pirates", and I do not "soft-core" movies (why waste my time). Too many great scenes and beautiful women who will do things in a video I pay money for, to get "slighted". I rent movies, and buy movies often whether through rental or VOD. DO I have a rental through NetFL* or any other? No, but I have one through an adult. Did I rent "mainstream videos"? Yes. Wow, and Blockbuster is going down and out. Are my adult? Not that I know of..? Seems adult rental is going strong! Adult rental has devoted followers, where a good "vanilla" can be bought anytime, anyday at your local "wally-word".
It is like saying, I love ice cream but I will settle for a smoothie. Or better said, like saying I enjoy a shower in the morning but I will settle for getting my head wet. It is simply not the same.
Desire, is desire and you can make a case that softcore will sell more movies but you are lost on passionate and devoted followers. I do not know where and why porn actresses arent making the money, because I only and only buy movies that have anal or DP. I would prefer to think, or if I thought my money would make more women do anal, I am there. Every woman in porno should give it all up and understand we expect everything.
And where can a man enjoy a beautiful spreading ass cheeks and taking it like a pro (pros) aside from fantasy. If you have it you are lucky, and sometimes your girl will if she sees beautiful women doing it. Fantastic brought to life!
You are right where it is not the fare you would sit down with the "fam" and watch it. But it is the kind of thing people watch in their bedroom at night where you dont hear about it, and it is not widely discussed. It satisfies and inspires more passion and sexuality.
Please dont get me wrong, there is room for mainstream soft-core. But this is not comparable in any way to the women who are as beautiful and satisfy every fantasy for men. And women have started coming around and are as sexual. If I wanted to show my girl a porn, I wouldnt show her the same mainstream crap we have seen a million times. And "mainstream rental" would go out of business, but adult would prosper and I am a "happy man".
Movies are dying, and movie rental is bringing conglomerate "main-stream" rental businesses to their knees. Adult rental is still prosperous and competitive and has a valuable commodity you can't find everywhere. "Main-stream" made it more valuable, where main-stream differences ruined others.
Long live porn (oldest profession), and may they get better, and better. And should be paid more than any celeb in Hollywood. They give more, do more, and it is what we will pay for a great porn star. Sick of seeing tired actresses getting attention, when pornstars are as beautiful and satisfy fantasies. Forget Angelena, when there is Maya or Eva, or Corrina? Celebs are not unlike anyone else, and there really is nothing special about them or what they do. Can you not be in a movie? Or get "airbrushed" and be in an action scene? They are not doing anything in a movie anyone could not do.
Pornstars have something else, and it is a sacrifice and profound. They have a talent, and abilities that can make person come to sexual passion. Genuine and humanly sexual. Anyone of them could do a movie, but how many celebs could do what they do?
Let the movie industry fail, but adult movies and actresses will survive. And I hope the industry pays them more for what they do.

Edited by - JUSTWRONG69 on 5/5/2009 12:04:25 AM

[Link]

Mike Quasar
Zero Tolerance

Reluctant pornographer
1765 Posts
7/01

Posted - May 5 2009 : 12:53AM

My prediction: Outside of very specialized fetish sites, new porn will not exist in 5 years. I don't care how creative and innovative, how big-budget or ambitious, the next generation will never pay for porn; ever.
Without new customers, no industry can survive.
It was fun while it lasted.
The writing was on the wall with Napster. Who knew that Lars Ulrich was smarter than the entire recording industry, movie industry and porn industry.

[Link]

duefuss
Member

Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious - Brendan Gill
723 Posts
4/09

Posted - May 5 2009 : 3:21PM

The porn industry is bigger than the mainstream movie business. How much isn't precisely known, but I've seen sources that said it was twice as big. Moreover, the porn business is credited with putting a VCR in every home and I expect a good pecentage of PCs there too. It has always been on the leading edge of technology.
Sex sells, always has, always will. What's changing is the way it's getting to the consumer.
Some will lag behind that change, some won't. I think you can wave good-bye to the brick and mortar porn shop. You can bet the industry will find ways to surmount it's current problems; maybe in part by putting out a better product, but I really doubt that.
I don't think free porn on the internet is hurting sales that much. Most of us here look at it, but I also pay hadsomely for site access, downloads, and VOD. Partly a function of my present circumstance (more free time, discretionary income, age, etc.), but not entirely, I spend more on it now than I ever did. I spend more, too, precisely because the free stuff that's on the 'net, mostly clips and previews, makes me want to see more, and I have to pay for that.
The economy is what's hurting this non-essential product the most and that's only temporary. The big loser of the porn business will ultimately, I think, be us, as porn develops legal strategies to curtail free stuff on the 'net and technologies to safeguard their own product, and that will allow them to even increase their profit margins.
Dead business. No way!

[Link]

Janitor
Retired

Porno movies, sexy videos, xxx. Adult DVD Talk at your service.
6409 Posts
11/99

Posted - May 5 2009 : 4:16PM

Your sources are wrong. The porn industry is peanuts next to the mainstream movie biz.

[Link]

Zen Master 2007
Member

356 Posts
3/07

Posted - May 5 2009 : 4:25PM

^
Steph is spot-on here, if only for the reason that the majority of major movie studios (and many "indie" movie studios) are recognized subsidiaries of enormous global communications conglomerates that also own major newspapers, television networks, petroleum interests, et. al.
- Zen

[Link]

melt
Pornstar Diplomat

The pride of Manchester
3763 Posts
1/09

Posted - May 5 2009 : 4:45PM

I doubt very much that porn will ever die anymore than sex will die but the way porn is sold will have to change. Pirates have shown the internet world the extent of the variety that exists in the porn industry but if users are getting everything for free ultimately producers will cease producing as much as they are producing now because they wont get a reasonable reward for their investment and talent. Trying to eliminate the tube sites is a futile exercise and I think the way forward is for studios and pirates to come to some partnership. I have seen many critics of Brazzers in particular who provide clips to tube sites and advertise on these sites as well but I do think that maybe that is a start of what eventually will have to happen in order for everyone to reap some benefit at the increasing numbers of porn addicts that use primarily the internet for their porn viewing.

[Link]

just_me
Member

133 Posts
4/09

Posted - May 5 2009 : 6:52PM

This will *never* happen. Those who facilitate piracy do so because they are living under the delusion that all porn producers are billionaires and all pornstars are millionaires (I'm not kidding, they truly believe pornstars are millionaires). "The rich" are _only_ interested in hoarding wealth. Need I say more than to look a mere four posts up? He sounds half-reasonable if he's telling the truth in all he says, but he certainly has been convinced by others that porn is an endless source of wealth.
There already is a way for anyone to be in partnership, referral programs. Thing is, these people have no interest in aiding the "greedy corporations". And for every one that can be turned around, there are 10 more behind him ready and willing to take up "the cause".
Edited by - just_me on 5/5/2009 6:56:30 PM

[Link]

Zartyr
Member

700 Posts
7/04

Posted - May 5 2009 : 7:07PM

1. Well, too bad that the likes of Britneys and will have to cruise the boardwalk for work to finance their drug habits.
2. Well, too bad >95% of nowaday's pop/rock/big screen/porn/whatever performers are not able to get a single emotion out of anyone in a live performance.
3. Well, 1 and 2 combined, there is no hope left for Britneys and .

[Link]

BlackSix

All-Star Member

pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world
12377 Posts
9/07

Posted - May 6 2009 : 2:31AM

Sorry, but the downturn in porn recently seems much more serious than previous recessions. I think it is completely related to the internet, after all downloading has pretty much crippled record stores and major labels.

[Link]

Darky
Deactivated User

13 Posts
3/09

Posted - May 6 2009 : 3:38AM

I know a lot of you have issues with piracy so does the recording industry and Hollywood. Myself I only paid for I think 5 titles which I consider classics and a few new titles. However I must have over 1,000 adult dvds d/l from sources like Newsgroups. In this tough economy the mentality I have is every man out for himself and me spending money on porn is just not economically viable. I prefer to put that extra money away in the bank. Plus I feel justified in downloading on average 5 DVDs per day on my turbo speed road runner cable access. All that bandwidth is definitely not going to waste.
Now of course the moral implications of course as most of you will think that people like me steal or hurt the industry. Honestly I do not care. In fact it does not bother me not even in the slightest. I sleep like a baby at night.
I guess the worst part is millions upon millions do it. I like PORN but I love my MONEY. In fact I thought newsgroup access was something not main stream, usually its bit torrent or limewire. However whenever I go to Fry's electronics and hang out at the magazine area I hear more and more people talking about how they use Newsgroups to download a lot of movies.
I guess the bottom line is millions upon millions are downloading porn for free and more and more are learning how to get it for free. So if piracy is killing sales and all, then industries just have to accept the plain fact NOTHING will ever STOP it and legal actions companies have taken have miserably failed. Perhaps the best thing is to try to find a new way of revolutionizing a industry in a different way that will change people's minds like my own into wanting to fork out my credit card to pay.
Edited by - darky on 5/6/2009 3:42:26 AM

[Link]

juha
Senior Member

2752 Posts
3/05

Posted - May 6 2009 : 6:48AM

You paid your internet provider for the bandwidth.
Why don't you pay your porn provider for the content?
Too many people consider their internet provider as a sort of pay-TV channel.
They pay the provider and get access to millions of pages of content.
Edited by - juha on 5/6/2009 6:49:21 AM

[Link]

juha
Senior Member

2752 Posts
3/05

Posted - May 6 2009 : 6:52AM

What are your plans for the future?
I think a cameraman of your caliber can find work in mainstream TV.

[Link]

duefuss
Member

Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious - Brendan Gill
723 Posts
4/09

Posted - May 6 2009 : 8:35AM

Yes, they are (see: http://www.forbes.com/2001/05/25/0524porn.html which sums up what I found on the subject). I should have been more careful.
But I continue to believe that it is large enough and certainly savvy enough to weathe its current hardships.

[Link]

Mike Quasar
Zero Tolerance

Reluctant pornographer
1765 Posts
7/01

Posted - May 6 2009 : 11:00AM

Darky wrote:
I know a lot of you have issues with piracy so does the recording industry and Hollywood. Myself I only paid for I think 5 titles which I consider classics and a few new titles. However I must have over 1,000 adult dvds d/l from sources like Newsgroups. In this tough economy the mentality I have is every man out for himself and me spending money on porn is just not economically viable. I prefer to put that extra money away in the bank. Plus I feel justified in downloading on average 5 DVDs per day on my turbo speed road runner cable access. All that bandwidth is definitely not going to waste.
Now of course the moral implications of course as most of you will think that people like me steal or hurt the industry. Honestly I do not care. In fact it does not bother me not even in the slightest. I sleep like a baby at night.
I guess the worst part is millions upon millions do it. I like PORN but I love my MONEY. In fact I thought newsgroup access was something not main stream, usually its bit torrent or limewire. However whenever I go to Fry's electronics and hang out at the magazine area I hear more and more people talking about how they use Newsgroups to download a lot of movies.
I guess the bottom line is millions upon millions are downloading porn for free and more and more are learning how to get it for free. So if piracy is killing sales and all, then industries just have to accept the plain fact NOTHING will ever STOP it and legal actions companies have taken have miserably failed. Perhaps the best thing is to try to find a new way of revolutionizing a industry in a different way that will change people's minds like my own into wanting to fork out my credit card to pay.
Edited by - darky on 5/6/2009 3:42:26 AM
Click to expand

I paid for the gas in my car, so I feel justified in driving to your house, kicking in your front door and helping myself to whatever I want. I also love my money. Why should I have to pay for a plasma T.V when I can have yours?
Your argument is bullshit and you are a world class douchebag.

[Link]

Mike Quasar
Zero Tolerance

Reluctant pornographer
1765 Posts
7/01

Posted - May 6 2009 : 11:01AM

Not with "Grand theft anal" and "Ass Cleavage" on my resume'

[Link]

julien1982
Member

Mean and Rude
600 Posts
7/05

Posted - May 6 2009 : 11:36AM

[Link]

killbillvol69

All-Star Member

^Lucy Pinder
18634 Posts
4/08

Posted - May 6 2009 : 12:43PM

@Darky: Coming to a website where many of the members make their money by selling porn, and then talking about how you get it for free without permission, is tacky and insensitive at the very least, not to mention also being illegal. I'd advise you to not do that again. Obviously I'd prefer that you acquire your porn legally, but even if you decide not to, I will insist that you don't brag about breaking the law and getting porn for free when you come here to discuss with others.

[Link]

Janitor
Retired

Porno movies, sexy videos, xxx. Adult DVD Talk at your service.
6409 Posts
11/99

Posted - May 6 2009 : 3:02PM

Hey Darky, I like my money too. And people like you are stealing from every one of us. So fuck off and use someone else's bandwidth. I pay for this site's bandwidth.

[Link]

duefuss
Member

Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious - Brendan Gill
723 Posts
4/09

Posted - May 6 2009 : 4:01PM

Of course Darky and his ilk represent perhaps the major problem for the entertainment industry right now. But in the past, new technologies have often threarened. Talkies destroyed the silents. Television emptied movie theaters. cable and satelite have hurt the traditional networks.
In each of these cases, the medium that was threatened at first resisted but eventually found ways to co-exist profitably with the threat. Things changed, but radio still exists and so do the networks and the movies.
Now it's the internet decimating the porn and music businesses and still hurting the movie business as I understand. But I still believe that it is only a question of when not if the entertainment industry will employ effective technologies and impose regulations favorable to its profits to protect their product.

It was rightly said that the entertainment industry, porn included, is intimately connected the American Corpocracy. This time of change, as businees is still feeling its way around the 'net for ways to maximize profits, will come to a close, I believe, soon, and we will see a flood of restictive new laws, fees and surcharges on internet service, ever more effective download blocking programs, etc. Once it decides what it needs to protect the bottom line, Corporate America gets it, no matter what
You may be sure that a much more restricted internet is on the way. The industry prosecutions of piracy that Darky scoffs at aren't the thing of the past he thinks they are. I look for test cases to come up soon, and some unlucky movie pirates, perhaps Darky himself, being made examples of the industry's willingness to ruin those who steal its wares.

[Link]

Zaer
Deactivated User

249 Posts
10/07

Posted - May 6 2009 : 7:14PM

Well the fact of the matter is the adult industry will always be around, and will still make money, just as the music industry is still around and is still making money, along with the movie industry.
These industries have adapted and will continue to do so and will find ways to deal with the new technological environment and still remain profitable.
Edited by - Zaer on 5/6/2009 7:14:40 PM

[Link]

Derek117
Senior Member

1605 Posts
1/06

Posted - May 6 2009 : 7:53PM

True words. IMO the porn industry over the last 9 years or so forgot this, and produced more and more sexvids that turned off new customers. Piracy is the problem the industry is willing to talk about. Not the poor quality of the product over the last decade.

[Link]

Hardware

All-Star Member

Your other left
14595 Posts
3/02

Posted - May 6 2009 : 7:59PM

You know, I've played some of those 'quest' video games, and I've never come across loot and said to myself "This stuff sucks! I'm taking it." People steal stuff because they think it has value.

[Link]

Chester Kingwood
Member

Anal Ring Toss Creator
88 Posts
2/07

Posted - May 6 2009 : 8:05PM

Music labels and main stream movie companies have been around for decades with Billions in surplus set aside. Ready and capable to file law suits and fight in court over their pirated material.
Most porn producers/companies will never see the day that they could afford to file law suits against sites that pirate there material. They just write them begging and hope it will come down only to find that they put it up on 5 other sites the next day.
I received a letter from one of the big V.O.D. sites I have my movies on.
Below is just a part of what it said:
We understand that companies are having a lot of question regarding the amount of pay you where receiving has dropped as much as 50% this year. This is due to no longer being able to compete with free porn on the Tube sites and the piracy that is destroying our industry.

Chester Kingwood, Clover Enterprises

[Link]

Jeff Mullen
Member

Hall of Famer -Time to get out
219 Posts
1/08

Posted - May 6 2009 : 11:00PM

As much as I hate to say this but without serious federal government intervention in the form of copyright enforcement and prosecution, there will be no porn industry in the future. I predict we are done in two years. The music business is a completely different industry with revenues from publishing, packaging, advertising, live gate, merchandising, television among other income generating areas. Porn has only one main source of income and that is content which is being given away for free.
What is happening here is that there is NO incentive for the government to jump to our defense and take this type of theft seriously or to protect minors from viewing porn because by sitting back, our industry is killing off its own. The pirates are a big problem but only half of the problem as the authorized free content providers are helping to condition an audience never to purchase porn in the future. The companies that offer free scenes are just as bad as those ripping off content in my opinion as it all has the same end result.
This didn't need to happen and the economy while not helping much certainly is not the main cause of the industry's demise. There is NO other way it can go as month by month you will see well-known companies folding their tents and finding something else to do. Now, here is my message to those that say adapt or die or get with the program and accept this new business model and go to internet porn. First off, we are all selling via the internet but there will be no more customers to purchase or at least not enough customers to sustain new production in the very near future. Also, just because people are viewing stolen content doesn't make it right. I love the posts about breaking into your house to steal a big screen because that is a very close comparison to what intellectual property theft is about. Most of our legislators don't have a grasp about this so we need more Pirate Bay prosecutions, more XMen Wolverine leaks in order for the mainstream world to begin the hurt which will then AND ONLY THEN lead to our government enforcing one of the biggest commandments of them all- Thou Shall Not Steal. Think about it because in a few years you will want to whack off to some new porn and the only shit you will find will be stuff you jerked off to a dozen times already. Wake up and notify your legislators and tell them to get off their ass and enforce the law. Now to those that give away tons of content now in order to make sales, pack your suitcases with money while you can as you are helping to destroy the adult movie industry. Really it is that fucking serious. By the way Not the Cosbys XXX is blowing up on YouTube and the movie comes out in June.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2nZUn4t7nE

[Link]

SexyHard
Member

673 Posts
6/07

Posted - May 7 2009 : 10:54AM

^^^
You guys are standing on a goldmine, grumbling cause some guys are sitting at the surface of the mine with gardening tools digging up some of the dirt, when you should be out there getting some dynamite so that you can open the mine up.
There are billions to be made selling porn on the internet.*
Bitterness over pirates (aka PORN CONSUMERS) is killing the industry, not the pirates/consumers.
Someone needs to go to the pirate sites, put their anger aside and ask "What are they offering consumers (besides free porn)?" and "What aren't they doing that I could do better?"
Then go to Google, the #1 destination in the world for people who are looking for porn, and ask "What can I do better?"
Then get some free music software (like Limewire) and go to iTunes, and ask "How did iTunes out-compete the free stuff?"
Then read "The Long Tail," then reread it. Then read over the pages of notes you should have taken while reading it. Get together with some friends, and have a few brainstorming sessions.
Then go up to Silicon Valley, hang out around Stanford, network, and find 4 or 5 really smart people, offer them seats on your advisory board, and brainstorm with them.
At that point, you will probably know what you need to do to turn the pirates into paying customers. If you have selected your advisory board well, you will probably have someone on it who can draft a business plan. Hire a lawyer to draft your compliance documents, and someone else on your advisory board should be able to put you in touch with VC. Go out, get a haircut, buy a nice suit, and have fun.
(Silicon Valley VC firms would probably run from you, but I would imagine that many of the individuals who do VC would be happy to invest in a good plan with good people. If not, you could pool a number of small investors from Porn Valley. If you can't do that, you don't have a good plan with good people, so you need to go back to the "form an advisory board" step.)

Or, if you prefer, you can gripe.
* Larry and Serge would probably the richest people in porn if the ONLY source of their income were porn, I just did a google keyword search, it wouldn't let me check "porn" for some reason, but there were 25 Million searches just on "boobs" last month.
I don't know what fraction of google searches are converted into ad-clicks or how much the word "boobs" sells for. Still, the minimum price per click at google is $0.05, and "boobs" is rated as "Very high advertiser competition." I also know from my site that MY CUT is almost always more than $0.10 for low-competition words like "dry ice." More than 10% of the searches on my site convert to clicks. Let's say in the real world 1% of searches convert and the average click is worth $0.10**, then google brought in $25,000 just on the word "boobs" just in the month of April.
This conservative estimate would work out to $300,000/year, just on the word "boobs". "Tits," "fuck," "anal," and "porn" are all additional sources of revenue for Google. Your goal should be to take this money from Google. They are the #1 porn site in the world, and they aren't even a porn site.
** It's probably much more. Maybe people who purchase ad words could tell us.

[Link]

fu_q

All-Star Member

Marv Montag (@PornOfYore)
2506 Posts
2/09

Posted - May 7 2009 : 11:26AM

What about sites that are legit but have essentially limitless content?
I have been a member of a few of these sites, and being a member definitely made me more picky when buying DVDs.
In essence, there was more porn than I could ever possibly want--all for, say, $15 a month (give or take).
I know that they're legit, but could these sites be hurting the industry? If you're just an average guy who wants porn--and who doesn't necessarily follow every new release, etc.--I think that one of these sites would be good enough for life.
This is especially true given that a lot of the sites allow for a download-to-own scheme. (All of which, of course, is great for the consumer...but I'm not so sure it's great for the adult industry in general.)

Edited by - fu_q on 5/7/2009 11:27:58 AM

[Link]

juha
Senior Member

2752 Posts
3/05

Posted - May 7 2009 : 11:31AM

Sexyhard,
basically you're saying they should give away the content for free and make a living on the ad-clicks.
This doesn't make any sense.
If the consumers get everything for free no content provider pays for placing an ad.
Google can make money on "boobs", "tits" and "fuck" searches because companies still hope to sell content to the consumers who were driven to their site by the google search.
Present example: Coctomom ad on ADT. Devils Film pays ADT because they hope to sell the film to ADT users. They would stop to advertise if all members had Darky's attitude.
Edited by - juha on 5/7/2009 11:32:43 AM

[Link]

Mike Quasar
Zero Tolerance

Reluctant pornographer
1765 Posts
7/01

Posted - May 7 2009 : 11:40AM

^ A very well thought and well intentioned post out post. I wasn't saying that there was no way to make money selling porn on the internet, of course there is, but the tube sites and pirate sites are cutting into that as well. Itunes indeed proves that if you give people a good product, some of them will pay for it. The convenience and ease of use coupled with the seamless integration with the ipod has made itunes one of the few success stories, however, many more people download from file sharing sites than from itunes. The closest thing we have to itunes is the vod sites and they'll tell you that an abundance of free porn and piracy has cut into their bottom line.
As for your point about finding out what people are willing to pay for: If you asked a person who was stealing your car what you could do differently to make them want to buy your car, they would probably laugh and then hit you with a tire iron. And turning all of those clicks into dollars is exactly what the tube sites are trying to do by generating enormous amounts of traffic for free content at the expense of the industry as a whole.
Edited by - mike quasar on 5/7/2009 11:41:37 AM

[Link]

Jamie Gardner
Member

demicomix.com Carnal Comics - True Stories of Adult Film Stars
105 Posts
6/04

Posted - May 7 2009 : 11:40AM

I think a big thing that has hurt the x-rated industry is that many video stores, that carried porn, have closed down. Before the internet, most porn fans rented x-rated movies at video stores with adult sections. These stores mostly carried non-porn movies.
Most of the independently owned stores were knocked out of business by the chain stores. Of the chain stores that carried porn, Tower Records and video closed all their stores. Wherehouse Music has closed many stores but is still around. Wherehouse Music mostly carries titles from the big mainstream companies such as Vivid Video, Digital Playground, etc..
People were much less in to buying porn movies in the 1980s and early 90s but the video companies could make money off of selling the videos to the stores. Even though many people made copies of the movies they rented, the video company made money from the videos that were sold to stores. There were some videotapes starting out at suggested retails of $100. This was especially true at the beginning of the x-rated video industry.
When DVDs came around many people started buying porn movies rather then rent them because the price of DVDs is much less then videos. At first the internet helped the porn industry by taking the place of video stores. This was true until torrents and tube sites became so popular. Many of the free tube sites have not paid for the rights to show most of the movies on their sites so the company not only makes less money of someone not buying their movies, they don't get paid anything!
http://www.myspace.com/jamieralphgardner
http://www.demidemonessmovie.com
http://www.demicomix.com/Carnal01.htm http://groups.yahoo.com/group/carnalcomics
Edited by - Jamie Gardner on 5/7/2009 11:42:26 AM

[Link]

Mike Quasar
Zero Tolerance

Reluctant pornographer
1765 Posts
7/01

Posted - May 7 2009 : 11:52AM

fu_q wrote:
What about sites that are legit but have essentially limitless content?
I have been a member of a few of these sites, and being a member definitely made me more picky when buying DVDs.
In essence, there was more porn than I could ever possibly want--all for, say, $15 a month (give or take).
I know that they're legit, but could these sites be hurting the industry? If you're just an average guy who wants porn--and who doesn't necessarily follow every new release, etc.--I think that one of these sites would be good enough for life.
This is especially true given that a lot of the sites allow for a download-to-own scheme. (All of which, of course, is great for the consumer...but I'm not so sure it's great for the adult industry in general.)
Edited by - fu_q on 5/7/2009 11:27:58 AM
Click to expand

What you're getting from a lot of the sites is very old content or content from 2nd and 3rd tier companies but you get so much of it that it kind of feeds into the pizza analogy: even bad pizza is usually good enough. It's unfortunate but many companies have come and gone over the years or have gotten into financial trouble and they've sold their content for pennies on the dollar to sites like these which in turn makes all content that much less valuable.

[Link]

themadride
Member

75 Posts
1/09

Posted - May 7 2009 : 11:53AM

I'm 26. Not sure if I'm young enough to count as the "next generation", but here goes:
I have bought VHS. I have bought DVD. I have burned cds from friends collections. I have downloaded illegally. But mostly, and for some time now I subsribe to sites where I download the content that I like to my own computer.
VHS degraded
DVD is easily ruined
Downloading illegally only works if you are not picky
There was a time when renting a DVD was the economic choice because of the cost of ownership. With massive digital storage devices a whole new world opens up. I can keep a lifetimes worth of porn in a 4"x6" external harddrive. No boxes, no dust, no worries. Nothing for visitors to see. Password protected and hidden so my children can't see and won't find.
Speaking personally, I spent on average $50/month of porn subscriptions. Some months I have none, some months several. As of right now...I am going crazy over Bobbi Star who I just discoverd (who knows why it took me so long). I will likely join several websites in the next few weeks just to try to expand my collection of her.
The websites that offer a billion random movies for $9.99 are fine for people who only rarely watch porn or have little/no collection. I pay a premium to obtain movies that fit a specific niche or feature a future girl.
The porn industry of tomorrow will have to develope niches within itself and generate more "exclusive content". I was listening to an interview with Bobbi Star who told of a very hot scene that had been cut from a film. If I could access that footage now for a premium I would pay handsomely.
Now, for everyone who wonders about if the "next generation" will pay up. It's important to remember that the "next generation" not only uses file-sharing sites because they want to get something for free. BUT THEY HAVE VERY LITTLE MONEY! I couldn't drop $50/month for something like this for many years. Now..my tastes are more refined and my bank account can handle those specific tastes.
Two more quick things:
1) If porn continues to become more "main stream", other areas of profit will emerge. There could be "in-film" product advertising just like feature blockbusters. There could be posters. Video games. On and on.
2) Everyone knows there is a thin line between pornography and prostitution. It may be a touchy subject, but if the two were not somewhat related...then why do so many pornstars provide escort services? I have read that several stars, such as Carmella Bing simply do movies as a way to keep popular and drive up demand for their escorting service which pays much more. If prostitution was ever legalized across the board I am willing to bet almost every pornstar would provide. I could be wrong, but even now many do for exactly this reason.
Finally, I think that money will continue to flow into the industry. The issue becomes market share as more companies emerge. Unlike the old (not too distand past) days where a Niche site would update once a week or bi-weekly or never...I believe they will have better luck updating exclusive content very frequently and charging a premium for that site.
There are several sites that I only join every few months. Not only do they not get my 29.99 some months, but I would gladly pay 49.99 for twice as many updates and would be unlikely to let my membership expire.
Finally finally,...As long as new hot girls come into the business someone will pay to watch them. Everytime I tell my wife my collection should be complete soon and my harddrive full....here comes a new starlet who's entire anthology I must own (Bobbi Star). Off I go to Best Buy and out comes the credit card for a half-dozen sites.

[Link]

Janitor
Retired

Porno movies, sexy videos, xxx. Adult DVD Talk at your service.
6409 Posts
11/99

Posted - May 7 2009 : 12:01PM

It's Google who's killing the porn industry. Most searches lead to torrent sites. We have very good search engine rankings - most of our 50,000+ visitors per day come from search engines. But we don't rank anywhere near the torrent sites. I can vote down those listings with my google account. There's not much more we can do to ask google not to promote those sites.
Porn companies cannot compete with Google for search engine market share. If huge companies like Yahoo can't compete how are startup porn companies going to compete? Doesn't matter how many silicon valley hot shots are on staff.
I'm not just bitching and doing nothing. I'm starting post-porn businesses.

[Link]

SexyHard
Member

673 Posts
6/07

Posted - May 7 2009 : 12:01PM

Sorry you completely misunderstood me. I mentioned ad-clicks to show how much money is already being made by a company that isn't even a porn company.
I was saying, "Stop griping, develop a plan, and execute it."
I have a few ideas in my head, but I'm not going through the process of starting a company, because I don't want to devote my working life to porn.

[Link]

juha
Senior Member

2752 Posts
3/05

Posted - May 7 2009 : 1:51PM

It's important to remember that "next generations" always had very little money.
But in the past college boys purchased a VHS every couple of months or rented VHS from a video store. They learned to pay for porn and to treasure their collection.
Today's "next generation" already has a big harddrive full of stolen porn before graduation. This generation never learned to save up for a DVD of their favourite girl.

[Link]

SexyHard
Member

673 Posts
6/07

Posted - May 7 2009 : 2:00PM

Again you're griping. I hope your post-porn business thrives, but I still think there are billions to be made in porn. I think you identified the right market opportunity with "recommendations."
Remember, every single one of those people searching on Google is looking for porn, and unless they search for a word like "porn," they are telling google exactly what kind of porn they like. The consumer is out there. They are announcing what they want, and you have the means to deliver it to them instantly. And the porn industry is griping that the internet is going to kill them?!?!?
Most (all?) long tail successes succeed by connecting the consumer to the product they want.
iTunes offers a suite of free services, the key ones for porn come down to the ability to try out the content and recommendation services. The later include recommendations that you see on the front page and playlists that other music fans have made. The iTunes player itself is a very good free product, and it integrates well with their mp3 player. Most importantly, you can try out 30 sec of the product before purchasing it at a very reasonable price. I don't think this model can simply be ported to porn.
Porn CAN adopt Apple's willingness to say, "The old distribution model is dead. Let's see what we can build on its grave."
Developing a service that will meet the needs of porn consumers, and convert them into customers will take originality, work, and money.
Unless you go with advertising, you will need a process to convert the consumers into customers. I would look more to Pandora (with a different monetization strategy) than iTunes. Consumers will give up their contact information in exchange for easy access to their favorites and a really good recommendation engine.
Porn IS a long-tail industry. (Have you ever seen Hollywood make a movie called "Jaguars Chasing Mini-Coopers #23"?) More importantly, I don't think a lot of porn consumers really know WHY they like what they like. (I think I like Gianna's tits, but she's the only mega-tit star that would place in my top-10, and frankly some of her scenes have left me cold. Maybe it's her dirty talk, in which case I should only check out scenes that have clear sound. A good recommendation engine could figure these things out pretty quickly.)
Converting the users to buyers is the hard part. I would imagine you could offer something like a higher quality feed, or maybe niche offerings. I would personally purchase videos of sexy girls (especially the stars) masturbating while watching the scene. I would also be ready to send the star a "thank you" gift with a personal note, especially if I was in a post-orgasmic glow. (I could see when you log-off, a window comes up with the star of the last scene smiling at the customer and saying, "Bye honey, I hope you had a good time. If so, let me know, and I'll have a special surprise for you when you cum back." The timing might be a challenge. It might be better to send an email saying "Now that your all nice and clean....") Other niche strategies might work for other customers. Porn touches on deep emotions that come very close to sexual love. People using porn are in a state of mind that has been designed by millions of years of evolution to make us do irrational things like become parents and get married. This could lead to unique monetization strategies.
The consumers may not need to buy anything. Advertising would also be a possible revenue source; it seems to work for Hulu. I would probably focus more on direct response advertising than brand advertising.* One of the great things about porn for sellers is that the customers aren't thinking rationally when they are using the product. The internet, for the first time, gives porn-sellers access to customers at the moment when impulse purchases are most likely. Any fool can see how a Hulu-like service could make money in Nevada. ("Hi, my name is Brandi. I see you like Gianna... well I love her too. (Unbuttons her blouse) If you like these, I can be in your room in just 20 minutes, and we can watch her together. If not, I've got lots of friends. Click here.")
Stop griping.
Sick of paying the rent on your warehouse? OK, don't.
Printing DVD's a pain.... Huh? Whats a DVD?
Middle man taking a cut? Go straight to your customer.
Distribution costs? Well, it ain't nothing, but according to Moore's law, it should be half what it is today in just 18 months.
The development process would involve throwing some stuff on the wall to see what sticks. Google focused their original efforts on developing a good search engine. They didn't include advertising in their original business plan, and resisted it for a few years. Now they are the biggest ad seller in the world.

* My guess is that Hulu will move in this direction. Their customers still think they are advertising on TV. They're not. Even if they can't capture the sale while the customer is on Hulu, they should at least be able to capture the customer's information. There's more room for improvement in Hulu. For one, I don't think they know anything about me except my IP address. I've seen no reason to join yet.

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Janitor
Retired

Porno movies, sexy videos, xxx. Adult DVD Talk at your service.
6409 Posts
11/99

Posted - May 7 2009 : 3:23PM

Discussing reality is not griping. If I cared to spend my life building a porn business I would. I don't. Neither do most people tangentially involved in the industry. I can't believe ADT is still here and I'm still here.
The reality for consumers is more shitty product. Less opportunity to make money means less professionals involved in the industry.

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Prophit
Member

378 Posts
1/07

Posted - May 7 2009 : 3:54PM

Mike Quasar wrote:
fu_q wrote:
What about sites that are legit but have essentially limitless content?
I have been a member of a few of these sites, and being a member definitely made me more picky when buying DVDs.
In essence, there was more porn than I could ever possibly want--all for, say, $15 a month (give or take).
I know that they're legit, but could these sites be hurting the industry? If you're just an average guy who wants porn--and who doesn't necessarily follow every new release, etc.--I think that one of these sites would be good enough for life.
This is especially true given that a lot of the sites allow for a download-to-own scheme. (All of which, of course, is great for the consumer...but I'm not so sure it's great for the adult industry in general.)
Edited by - fu_q on 5/7/2009 11:27:58 AM
Click to expand
What you're getting from a lot of the sites is very old content or content from 2nd and 3rd tier companies but you get so much of it that it kind of feeds into the pizza analogy: even bad pizza is usually good enough. It's unfortunate but many companies have come and gone over the years or have gotten into financial trouble and they've sold their content for pennies on the dollar to sites like these which in turn makes all content that much less valuable.
Click to expand

You know which site I was thinking of when reading fu_q's post? Ztod.com!
I know it's not exactly what he meant but it's a similar situation because you are practically throwing your whole catalogue at the consumer for just 30 Dollars a month. Doesn't this kinda make your retail releases less valuable too? Why would anyone ever buy a Zero Tolerance DVD again when he can download not just one but dozens of ZT movies (even in HD) for just 30$? And it's not only Zero Tolerance you also get thirdmovies.com and blackicepass to boot. It's too good a deal and it's definitely spoiling the customer (not that I'm complaining because obviously I love those sites). But I for one would be willing to pay for downloads on a per-movie basis. Let's say 15$ for the latest movie in 1080p (which I can keep of course). But I guess I must be the minority...

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SexyHard
Member

673 Posts
6/07

Posted - May 7 2009 : 4:56PM

I used "you" in two different ways. Sometimes I meant "Steph," usually I meant "the industry."
I disagree that there is "less opportunity to make money." I believe that there is more.
Look at Ebay: Who thought there was so much money in garage sales?
Google: Larry and Serge are the richest Librarians in human history.
Amazon: I thought "Barnes and Noble" and "Borders" were huge. And Gosh, there were a lot of shitty books sitting on their shelves.
Facebook: You mean I can make money helping people track down their friends from 20 years ago?
YouTube: There's money in home videos? You gotta be joking.
I see a multi-billion dollar opportunity out there. It's basically the same as every long-tail success, namely connecting the individual consumer with the product that THEY want.
Let me share my history as a porn consumer.
When I started out, I needed to go to a movie theater. There were only two that were accessible to me. One was cleaner, and I wasn't interested in getting $5 blowjobs from junkies, so in reality there was only one for me. They showed three titles every week. And the industry didn't need to produce many more than three titles. There was no need to figure out what I wanted to watch, because I would watch whatever was playing.
The VHS and DVD changed that. Suddenly I had choices. But the choices were limited to what was on the shelves. I got to know some of the girls, companies and directors. I would usually rent two at a time, because there was about a 50% chance that I would like a particular title.
I'm still stuck in the DVD, and use the internet very little. Mainly, I want to watch porn on my TV and with good quality. I expect that some day soon, I will stop watching DVD's. This will give me the opportunity to watch whatever I want, whether or not my video store stocks it, at a moment's notice. My problem will be "Too many fucking choices."
The fact that there is so much shitty product out there IS the opportunity. I couldn't wade through the shit in two lifetimes, neither could you, but for a computer, it's a 5 millisecond job.
If someone can help me deal with the massive amounts of shitty porn out there, they will have a customer.
This is essentially Steph's business model, but the process is complicated. Customers need to read reviews, make a decision, and then maybe, just maybe, some of us will click through to buy the DVD, and Steph gets her cut. But, lets be honest, most consumers don't want to read reviews or buy porn. Most paying customers rent. Steph doesn't make a nickel if I go to the rental store and grab a DVD based on reviews I read. But with the death of the DVD, you can go straight from recommendation, to delivery, to monetization.
If you can automate the recommendation process, and link that directly to monetization, there is a goldmine.
I'm fed up for two reasons:
1) They are standing on a gold mine, and complaining that they aren't selling as many DVD's as they used to.
2) There was a time when people said, "Porn is leading the way in adoption of new technologies, and Hollywood is learning from porn."

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poloprinz
Member

We didn't bring a compass 'cause we ain't got nowhere to go
173 Posts
4/09

Posted - May 7 2009 : 6:47PM

I'am not an insider, so i can't hudge how urgent the troubles of the porn industry are.
I can only see the whole thing from a customer standpoint, which is: Like many people, i get hooked on a girl, then want to see more of her. Now when i join a site because it seems to offer quality content from, say, two performers i started to like, then download (or rather, try to) those scenes and one scene is fucked up by off-sync audio (and improperly titled/switched with a scene from a different girl) and the other i simply cannot dl at all, i feel a little weird. Especially if i try to contact them about the issue, and even after weeks nothing is done about it. Sure, i could become a 6-month (or even longer) member to see when they get it done. But, honestly, wtf?
I don't dl from the tubes for a variety of reasons. I can understand that running a site that provides the massive content that you need to make an impression is a complicated task because if you hire too many people to make everything perfect, it's probably not cost-effective any more, since the profit is already lower than dvd sales (is it? Depends on why customers become members, what they dl, how long they stay members, and there's they question if they'd bought the dvd if there wasn't the possibility of dl. And probably a whole lot of other things i can't think of right now).
But, on the other hand, many customers aren't like this. If you sell them a defective car, they won't buy your product any more, the'll buy someone else's. Or, in the case of porn, they just illegally dl it.
I'm not saying that all are like this. Many are probably the pirate type anyway that never buys anything. You can't do anything to get them to pay for it. Many might buy some content and steal other content.
But those who really want to support the content producers, because they are not stupid and know that if this industry is dying, there will be no more new porn, might be turned down by bad customer service.
And if you have content up that's not properly encoded or not cared for in other ways, that's some sort of bad customer service. And this stuff happens on a lot of internet sites.
Sorry if this has gotten a bit long. If it comes off as beating around the bush too much - i just try not to be offensive.

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Mike Quasar
Zero Tolerance

Reluctant pornographer
1765 Posts
7/01

Posted - May 7 2009 : 7:10PM

Prophit wrote:

You know which site I was thinking of when reading fu_q's post? Ztod.com!
I know it's not exactly what he meant but it's a similar situation because you are practically throwing your whole catalogue at the consumer for just 30 Dollars a month. Doesn't this kinda make your retail releases less valuable too? Why would anyone ever buy a Zero Tolerance DVD again when he can download not just one but dozens of ZT movies (even in HD) for just 30$? And it's not only Zero Tolerance you also get thirdmovies.com and blackicepass to boot. It's too good a deal and it's definitely spoiling the customer (not that I'm complaining because obviously I love those sites). But I for one would be willing to pay for downloads on a per-movie basis. Let's say 15$ for the latest movie in 1080p (which I can keep of course). But I guess I must be the minority...
Click to expand

You're exactly right and I wish we didn't do it that way because I think our content is more valuable than that and I would love to switch to an itunes-type model, but it is what it is, as they say. It's tough to compete with videosz and videbox-type sites when they give you the moon for very little money.

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fu_q

All-Star Member

Marv Montag (@PornOfYore)
2506 Posts
2/09

Posted - May 7 2009 : 7:19PM

^I would love to see an itunes-like format for the ztod.com site. I want some of the scenes, but I don't want to to subscribe to sites any more...and I don't want to be overwhelmed with trying to download everything that I "can" download.
Perhaps I'm weird, but I would much prefer this to the everything-for-$30-per-month format.

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