It's equally repulsive when female performer's lists of guys they're willing to work with are circulated. So what if she doesn't want to work with Christian? Publicizing that fact just makes for potentially uncomfortable situations. And we all know how catty Christian can get.
That's a separate issue probably meant for another thread, but most certainly one I agree with. Those "lists" are probably stressful and embarrassing enough, so no need to go public with them IMO.
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the unknown pervert Deactivated User
I'd like to stay but I've got a plane to catch. 3243 Posts 5/06
Posted - Oct 8 2009 : 9:40AM
Yeah, but half the time it's Christian himself who is going public with that information.
“Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards.” - Kierkegaard 2684 Posts 8/09
Posted - Oct 8 2009 : 9:46AM
No, I hope I didn't imply you thought so. I was just curious of what others thought about the health consequences of this emerging model you brought up (as I haven't heard anyone else talk about it much here, surprisingly).
“Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards.” - Kierkegaard 2684 Posts 8/09
Posted - Oct 8 2009 : 11:15AM
jesus, back into the soup. KB, I couldn't agree more. I won't comment on all the other stuff, but from a pure hypocritical POV, I really find it incredibly senseless, when girl performers say, "No black guys for me. Their dicks are too big!" then go off and fuck Whitezilla (not all black performers have big dicks)! When will people learn that just because there might be racially tendency (I haven't looked for empirical proof) for larger anatomical features (i.e., bigger cocks), this doesn't mean every guy belonging to this race has a larger than average dick; it just means there is a higher chance. I WISH PEOPLE WOULD STOP USING STATISTICS & PROBABILITY INAPPROPRIATELY, ESP. APPLYING GENERAL TRENDS TO INDIVIDUALS FOR MAKING DEFINITIVE CONCLUSIONS/STATEMENTS. 99% probability for a 12" cock does not mean Mr. X has a 12" cock! Edited by - BYOB_Kenobi on 10/8/2009 11:24:28 AM
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Tobias Deactivated User
475 Posts 1/09
Posted - Oct 8 2009 : 11:57AM
I find offense with use of the word "choice" in this matter. Let's be clear about how these discussions typically begin and progress. 99% of the time it's a poster asking a female performer "Hey, why haven't you had sex with _____(insert name of a black male performer)_____?" She doesn't respond. Then comes the question again. "Hey, why haven't you had sex with _____(insert name of a second black male performer)_____?" Before you know it, she's being hounded to answer the question "Hey, why don't you do interracial?" Pressed to answer the question, she attempts to give the most civil answer she can. When considering the possible alternatives, "Oh, he's way too big for me" IS a very polite rejection. Despite her effort at civility, however, at this point the female performer is called irrational. Where is the "choice" when you are backed into a corner in such a way? This again boils down to men forcing themselves upon women in an entirely unacceptable manner.
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Zaer Deactivated User
249 Posts 10/07
Posted - Oct 8 2009 : 12:01PM
They're not being forced to do anything. In some cases though they're being criticized for not having a legitimate reason for not working with Blacks and working with every other ethnicity.
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Tobias Deactivated User
475 Posts 1/09
Posted - Oct 8 2009 : 12:29PM
"Legitimate" as defined by who? - You or another man? By referring to her reason for rejecting you as "illegitimate," aren't you simply further attempting to impose your will upon her? What "legitimate" reason is it that you are seeking? If she came right out and said "I don't want to have sex with you because you're black" would that mollify you? Quite the opposite would happen. You'd become angry and denounce her as a racist. Whatever a woman's reasons for choosing her sexual partners, they are surely based upon a complex combination of experiences and emotions. Don't belittle them or her by referring to them as "illegitimate."
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Zaer Deactivated User
249 Posts 10/07
Posted - Oct 8 2009 : 12:44PM
Legitimate as defined by society. Given that most consider racism to be an illegitimate reason for refusing to work with someone. And most of those women understand that which is why they put forward risible reasons to justify why they refuse to work with someone who's Black yet work with all other races without a problem. Edited by - Zaer on 10/8/2009 12:45:30 PM
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Tobias Deactivated User
475 Posts 1/09
Posted - Oct 8 2009 : 12:58PM
First of all, I don't know what you're referring to when you say "risible reason." Second, simply because a woman hasn't performed with a black man doesn't mean she's racist. In the United States, you aren't guilty until proven otherwise. Similarly, nobody should be pronounced "racist until proven otherwise."
“Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards.” - Kierkegaard 2684 Posts 8/09
Posted - Oct 8 2009 : 1:10PM
(I've always wanted to say that) First, thanks for the primer (I'm not really thankful) Tobias. I'll quickly respond to your post (above) and await for your response, before I completely think you are overzealous. As previously stated, I was pointing out some female performers who (along KB argument of giving bad reasons) give hypocritical reasons (I say asinine) like the Whitezilla & 'equating all black male performers as having larger cocks that the more well-endowed common white male talent' examples, however this is all and I wanted to avoid getting into some of the other areas. But in response to your statement, if you acknowledge these girls (in question) give confounding/hypocritical public reasons, but try and write it off as acceptable, then I have issue with that (as KB does). Just because a female performer is hounded (not advocating this), does not make it any correct or right. Believe me, I give female porn performers lots of latitude/passes, but in this aspect they are just like all other non-porn performers/celebrities and need to learn how to handle themselves (i.e., PR). To demand anything less is an insult to them. Please note, in above 2 paragraphs I am only talking about the 'hypocritical reasons' issue. But in bigger picture of life, I don't loose any sleep at night about this stuff. BTW, why did you cite me in your "choice" argument as I did not mention "choice"?
From the sounds of it many chicks who had no problem with IR come into the industry do it or are willing and are told to stop by other performers, agencies, studios and some fans. I'm sure there's pressure coming from both sides but I can't see how the real pressure is coming from easily ignorable guys on forums.
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Tobias Deactivated User
475 Posts 1/09
Posted - Oct 8 2009 : 3:36PM
I referenced your quote - "No black guys for me. Their dicks are too big!" - in saying this is a polite form of rejection or, as killbill would call it, "reason for not working with black guys." The female performer is, as politely as possible, essentially saying "My reasons for performing with whomever I choose to perform with are personal and none of your business. But, if you persist with pestering me on the matter, here's what you, as a man, probably want to hear." It's like the old breaking up line "It's not you, it's me." What good is there in then calling her a liar, racist, etc.? Another thing I've noticed here is some very questionable logic: (1) Some female performers offer "illegitimate" reasons for not doing interracial. (2) An "illegitimate" reason for not doing interracial is a sign of racism. (3) Therefore all female performers who offer "illegitimate" reasons for not doing interracial are racist. How many leaps in logic do you count?
“Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards.” - Kierkegaard 2684 Posts 8/09
Posted - Oct 8 2009 : 5:20PM
^ Just as I thought. I can't make you read, but to cut my losses/waste-of-time, please see below. I'm popping smoke and I'll stop reading these threads. Next time for newer folks, please add to your thread titles "not up for discussion" as I said in my past post here, any "serious discussion is futile" as you already made up your mind.
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Vandal_Supreme Deactivated User
7 Posts 5/09
Posted - Oct 8 2009 : 7:36PM
How many girls currently refuse to work with Christian? Why would the list grow if this change were implemented? At worst, we'd see a 'no' list comprised of hundreds of black performers.
me shaking my head....................Pressuring women into doing IR is akin to rape.......do you forget what thread you're in. Pressuring women to do anything they don't wan't to do...sort of like doing porno dan...is just wrong....rape is a little strong. but hit's the spot.
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Vandal_Supreme Deactivated User
7 Posts 5/09
Posted - Oct 8 2009 : 8:58PM
If a woman refuses to work with a black man in an office, would that be OK? If a woman refuses to act in a Hollywood film with black costars, would that be OK? If not, then why is refusing to perform with black males in porn acceptable? I thought porn was just like any other line of work.
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the unknown pervert Deactivated User
I'd like to stay but I've got a plane to catch. 3243 Posts 5/06
Posted - Oct 8 2009 : 9:09PM
Does a woman get something shoved up her vagina in any other line of work? If not then it is not like any other line of work. Does a woman get to have sex on the clock in any other line of work? If not then it is not like any other line of work. If it was like any other line of work it would not be being prosecuted in 48 out of 50 states.
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Tobias Deactivated User
475 Posts 1/09
Posted - Oct 8 2009 : 9:11PM
When was the last time your boss tipped you on your head and piledrivered your butt, all the while telling you to smile for the security cameras? No. Porn is not like any other line of work. That's why the masses view it but only a select few actually participate in the making of it.
It is romanticizing the business of porn to think performers are using the same rules as a girl has in the real world when she chooses a bed partner. Porn's a physical activity people are hired to perform. I'm sure I've read right here on ADT that frequently female performer don't know who she will work with until she arrives on scene. The girls have a no list consisting of individual males that her agent give to the producer. So it anyone except these certain guys. Porn is a business just like any other as a bonus it doesn't require any special skills it's strictly on-the-job training. Anyone can do it even if no one would pay to see them.
You know, most porn stars would disagree with you on your perspective here. You'll see them time and time again post or say that porn is just a job, it's not sex, etc. In fact many of them go to great lengths to assure people that it is just a job like any other, that there is no difference whatsoever between what they do, and what you or I or anyone else does for a living. [edit: um, wrote ensure instead of assure... i'm a loser] Edited by - killbillvol69 on 10/9/2009 10:06:33 AM
You can easily tell if they are bigots by the way they answer when they are asked about IR. I remember some young girl from Alabama by the last name West...I don't remember her full name. She was saying how she is only attracted to white men, not blacks or asians. Then she went on to do a scene with asians, and said that even though she wasn't attracted to them she has nothing against them. But she still won't do black men. Then when people found out she did a scene with Ramon, who is a latino who has some black in him, they asked her about it. She got upset and was saying that he isn't black. She said that the fact that she didn't freak out when she was working with him makes her believe he isn't black. She was obviously ashamed of being tied to a black man. Anyone will be a fool not to sense prejudice there. I don't lose any sleep over this but I just like to point it out. Racism isn't illegal so they are free to say or do what they want.
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Zaer Deactivated User
249 Posts 10/07
Posted - Oct 9 2009 : 8:50AM
A little strong? It's an absurd statement.
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Zaer Deactivated User
249 Posts 10/07
Posted - Oct 9 2009 : 8:57AM
This thread is the product of questionable logic. But since you're the self-appointed defender of the women who refuse to work with Blacks, but work with every other race and see nothing hypocritical about it even though it is, what legitimate reasons can you come up with for why they wouldn't with someone who's Black and yet work with all other races?
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the unknown pervert Deactivated User
I'd like to stay but I've got a plane to catch. 3243 Posts 5/06
Posted - Oct 9 2009 : 9:26AM
It might be just a job, but it is not like any other job. If it was no different than what I do for a living they would not need monthly HIV tests and they would not need to have their I.D.s photocopied before clocking in every day. Edited by - the unknown pervert on 10/9/2009 9:28:45 AM
On another note, it's time for performers who refuse to work with black men like Rachel Roxx, Hanna West...but who work with Ramon to realize that Ramon is a light skinned black man. If Billy Dee, Obama, Jake Steed and Derek Jeter are considered black then Ramon is black. If those girls check their profiles at ADT, they can see the scenes they did with Ramon are labeled IR.
"In fact many of them go to great lengths to assure people that it is just a job like any other, that there is no difference whatsoever between what they do, and what you or I or anyone else does for a living." Lmao. Then they are going to great lengths pointlessly, because what they do is not like what most people do.
“Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards.” - Kierkegaard 2684 Posts 8/09
Posted - Oct 9 2009 : 3:47PM
TUP, I disagree. The HIV testing is just an public health issue and there are many public health regulations (both at state & federal levels) outside of porn, in some ways or another (licensing, certifications) that require specific preventative policies. To my knowledge, the required HIV tests are a state regulation (please correct me if I am wrong) and not required by the industry (but theoretically someone could argue there might be required if there were no state regs) as it's just an infectious disease (ID) issue. But, there are other professions that require infectious disease testing/prevention for specific contagious microbes (e.g., TB for health care workers). In case of porn, instead of being exposed to contagious air-born microbes (in case of TB), porn performers are theoretical walking HIV vectors (method of introduction of a virus).
No, sorry. In the U.S. it's the complete opposite if your a black male. Ever heard the story of the black and the white guy who both committed rape? The black guy just raped the chick, whereas the white guy raped AND killed his chick. The black guy got like 40 years or something like that whereas the white guy got less than 15. Where's the justice there?
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Tobias Deactivated User
475 Posts 1/09
Posted - Oct 9 2009 : 11:41PM
Nobody here is naive enough to doubt that racism (whether in our justice system or elsewhere) still exists. It doesn't really help matters though when you unthinkingly run around calling white people racist based on nothing more than their choice of sexual partners. If that's the standard, then 97% of white males must be racist towards blacks since, at less than 3%, the least common ethnic relational combination is a white man and a black woman (interestingly enough, census data shows that white women are three times more likely to marry a black man than are white men to marry a black women). Now, if you're going to say that 99% of white males are racist, then how do you explain the fact that Barack Obama received 41% of the white male vote (the hightest percentage among Democratic presidential candidates since Jimmy Carter in 1976)? And if white women are so racist, then why do they marry black man at a rate three times that of white men marrying black women? The data simply does not support the notion that sexual preference is a reliable indicator of any tendency towards racism. Edited by - tobias on 10/10/2009 12:10:06 AM
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BrazilianDude Deactivated User
Minha Vaidade me deixou cansado 351 Posts 8/09
Posted - Oct 10 2009 : 12:44AM
what i don't get is why you keep equating porn with choice of sexual partners ? are you really so naive?, a porn actress is a prostitute who has sex for money not because she wants to, what you're saying makes no sense whatsoever, it makes no sense to say you have a choice in sex partners if you don't even know the guy you're going to work with the next day, your argument is very weak, if a white girl decides not to date a black guy no one would call her a racist because that's her personal life, but now if a girl has sex with any living thing they throw at her but refuses to work with someone because of their race then anyone with any sense would agree she's most definitely a racist, there is no other word for it ,it is R.A.C.I.S.M period. no one is forcing anyone to do anything, people have the right to be racist, i have the right to believe hitler was right if i want to (not that i think he was right, just an example) that's my right and you are entitled to call me a racist or a nazi, believing hitler was right is my god-given right, there is NOTHING you can do to make me change my opinion, but you DO have the right to call me a nazi , see how it works ?
Edited by - braziliandude on 10/10/2009 12:50:14 AM
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BrazilianDude Deactivated User
Minha Vaidade me deixou cansado 351 Posts 8/09
Posted - Oct 10 2009 : 12:58AM
most european girls do interracial, are they more attracted to black men? HELL NO, they're not any more or less attracted to black men, unless someone shows me a scientific research that proves european girls are genetically less repulsed by black men ? , nonsense, any way you look at it the "attraction" argument FAILS, there is definitely more to it. Edited by - braziliandude on 10/10/2009 1:00:25 AM
It's true; in every country's porn industry except the US, race is never even mentioned. The girl just shows up to the gig and does the guy. He might be white, he might be black, he might be whatever else. Yet many countries have thriving porn industries that are not going to hell in a handbasket because white people have to do scenes with black people. This is why it seems strange to me that people find it so insane to consider the idea that IR sex would be considered just like all other sex. If it's not a problem anywhere else, how likely is it that it would be a problem in the US?
Well, tell them that. They've got some pretty interesting arguments to explain why it is just like what other people do. Again, I'm not sure I agree with them, but if you think about it, who would know better than a porn star what being a porn star is all about? Remember that many of them have worked other jobs, before getting into porn.
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Tobias Deactivated User
475 Posts 1/09
Posted - Oct 10 2009 : 2:57AM
This might be the root of the problem...People who think porn actresses are prostitutes. Some escort. But, the majority do not. And, those who don't would likely take great offense to being called prostitutes.
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Oct 10 2009 : 6:30AM
I'm not sure how true that is these days. From what I've heard with the economy and industry in decline a lot of the girls and women are now escorting on the side.
I'd like to stay but I've got a plane to catch. 3243 Posts 5/06
Posted - Oct 10 2009 : 9:03AM
It really doesn't matter. A prostitute always has the option of refusing the money and saying no. The last time I looked up choice in a dictionary that scenario fit the definition.
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BrazilianDude Deactivated User
Minha Vaidade me deixou cansado 351 Posts 8/09
Posted - Oct 10 2009 : 10:12AM
if you have sex for money you are a prostitute plain and simple, look up the definition in the dictionary, well ...actualy porn actresses are even worse, not only do they allow strangers to touch them for money but they also let them film it, a lot of prostitutes would never let you do that, so a porn actress is one step further from being a prostitute.
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BrazilianDude Deactivated User
Minha Vaidade me deixou cansado 351 Posts 8/09
Posted - Oct 10 2009 : 10:23AM
well that's what we've been saying all along, obviously if they didn't have this option they would be in jail for doing something illegal wouldn't they ?, as far as my previous analogy is concerned i can tattoo a swastika on my chest, that's an option isn't it ? while i do have the right to do so arguing whether i'm a nazi or not would be pointless as it would be too glaringly obvious, that's what happens to dodgers, they do what they want to do, even when it's blatantly racist, that's not what i was trying to get at, what i mean is that comparing a girl looking for a boyfriend with a prostitute having sex for money is ridiculous, when a girl decides not to date black men she's NOT being racist, she doesn't find black men attractive that's it whereas a prostitute refusing to work with someone based SOLELY ON RACE is racist, they have sex with guys they don't find attractive all the time, that's what i meant, i'm not questioning if they have the right to do that, they obviously have the right to dodge but since when did we lose our right to call a spade a spade? as someone said before, it doesn't matter , most of them will end up doing interracial anyway, because for some weird reason the scientific community hasn't been able to explain yet when porn actresses get old and their values go down their taste in men changes drastically and all of a sudden they start feeling strongly attracted to black men, whoever finds a scientific explanation for this will probably win a nobel prize, that's been boggling scientists for years
Edited by - braziliandude on 10/10/2009 10:42:31 AM
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BrazilianDude Deactivated User
Minha Vaidade me deixou cansado 351 Posts 8/09
Posted - Oct 10 2009 : 10:25AM
i'd better stop calling them prostitutes because prostitutes might take offense to it since they have a lot more class, they wouldn't have sex in public
^ ?? There are several kinds of sex worker who have sex in public. And why do you make a moral distinction based upon visibility? Sounds like classic class-based discrimination to me. First of all, "prostitute" is rather outdated, and a politically loaded term. "Sex worker" has been invoked for years now as a more encompassing term for all those working in sex-related trades, including strippers, call girls etc. Second, in relation to a couple of other comments made, the term "prostitute" has such a stigma attached to it, I'm not surprised that some porn stars have been outraged at being called a "prostitute" - this doesn't mean prostitutes are scum, nor does it mean porn stars necessarily feel this way about prostitution, but it does say something about the stigma we attach to certain professions based upon class and forms of consumption.
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BrazilianDude Deactivated User
Minha Vaidade me deixou cansado 351 Posts 8/09
Posted - Oct 10 2009 : 12:19PM
well the distinction is obvious, some prostitutes don't want people to know they're prostitutes because some of them still have some class and KNOW what they're doing is wrong, that's why quite a few prostitutes would actually REFUSE to do porn. a porn actress will do EVERYTHING your regular hooker does whereas some hookers will not do everything a porn actress does,like having sex in public and stuff like that, so who's worse?
Edited by - braziliandude on 10/10/2009 2:08:14 PM
Posted - Oct 7 2009 : 3:48PM
