Wow...so you think just because someone is a Porn Star or Sex worker they have no rights? You think they are merely "slaves" and should have sex with any dude their agent/manager tells them to? If I was a top star, you damn right I would say which dude can boink me and which dude can't. That's their personal rights. What the fug is this, The Spanish Inquisition? Get the f*ck out of there with that bullsh*t. Edited by - Starr Santiago on 10/11/2009 7:16:56 PM
So this explains why these retorical, ONE-SIDED pointless IR threads about White Female stars are allowed to fester this board It's frightening to see how some of these lowlives are allowed to verbally abuse the talent on here. It's practically online abuse. Has it occured to you KillBill that people have a right to refuse working with certain individuals...for whatever reason. Is it racism? Maybe. Is it wrong? Of course. But is being a racist illegal in this country....a resounding NO. But why stop here? Why don't we take it to the next level and start chasticizing the fans that don't buy IR. Afterall, how dare them be racist with their own money that they worked for. Edited by - Starr Santiago on 10/11/2009 8:12:42 PM
This might be a shocker (and hold onto your chair) but Race relations in the United States is typically worse off than Europe. So why would the issue in American porn be mysterious to anyone? Art imitates life, not the other way around. And yes...I do consider Porn a form of art Edited by - Starr Santiago on 10/11/2009 7:19:01 PM Edited by - Starr Santiago on 10/11/2009 8:13:56 PM
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Tobias Deactivated User
475 Posts 1/09
Posted - Oct 12 2009 : 12:37AM
Unfortunately, yes, it appears that many "fans" of porn think they possess some kind of vicarious ownership interest in the female talent. It's creepy and certainly misogynistic. Par for the course when dealing with bullies and abusers, it's far easier for these "fans" to berate a woman than it is for them to admit their own faults.
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Zaer Deactivated User
249 Posts 10/07
Posted - Oct 12 2009 : 2:42AM
These threads aren't one sided as there are always people like you to defend the decision by female talent to refuse working with Blacks because of "attraction issues" yet mysteriously such issues don't exist with any other ethnicity that they work with. Furthermore they have a right to refuse working with anyone, be it for racist reasons or other reasons, but if society disagrees with their decision then they will be criticized for it. That's just how it is. And in many sectors of society (e.g., housing, employment, higher education, loans, etc...) racial discrimination, which is rooted in racism, is illegal.
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Tobias Deactivated User
475 Posts 1/09
Posted - Oct 12 2009 : 3:24AM
And, in some countries it's illegal for a woman to refuse a man. But, in America that's not the case. Here, she has the freedom to choose whom she will have sex with. God help us all the day that's not the case.
Someone doing a job that they believe to be wrong doesn't seem very emotionally healthy to me. Fuck 'class' - in my opinion it's far better to be shame free and happy with your life.If it's wrong to appear in porn, isn't it also wrong for you to watch it?
It's a business decision, just like not doing anal for a while. We should all get over it and enjoy whatever the respective performer does in the meantime before the black train brings enough money to enter the station.
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Zaer Deactivated User
249 Posts 10/07
Posted - Oct 12 2009 : 9:33AM
We've already concluded that, and we've also concluded that society has the right to criticize them for their decision if it disagrees with it. Edited by - Zaer on 10/12/2009 9:40:17 AM
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BrazilianDude Deactivated User
Minha Vaidade me deixou cansado 351 Posts 8/09
Posted - Oct 12 2009 : 10:00AM
"Has it occured to you KillBill that people have a right to refuse working with certain individuals...for whatever reason. Is it racism? Maybe. Is it wrong? Of course. But is being a racist illegal in this country....a resounding NO. " THANK YOU MAN THANKS FOR MAKING MY POINT FOR ME, nothing more to add, they have the right to be racist. i for one think this thread is completely useless, don't even know why they didn't lock it right away. Edited by - braziliandude on 10/12/2009 10:22:22 AM
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BrazilianDude Deactivated User
Minha Vaidade me deixou cansado 351 Posts 8/09
Posted - Oct 12 2009 : 10:13AM
JUST A QUESTION ... why is it that everytime there is a discussion about dodgers people try to turn it into a discussion about whether or not girls have the right to refuse to work with someone, THAT IS NOT THE DISCUSSION HERE, like i said if they didn't have the right to refuse to work with someone because of their race they would be in JAIL because it would be ILLEGAL, so saying "she has the right to fuck whoever she wants" or any stuff like that is like saying germans have the right to be german, that's so ridiculous is not even a discussion, my point is that we have just as much right think they're racist, i wouldn't call it abuse or offense, since when did the truth become abuse? this thread, however is one-sided , biased and whoever started this thread was just trying to get a rise out of people.
Edited by - braziliandude on 10/12/2009 10:21:11 AM
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BrazilianDude Deactivated User
Minha Vaidade me deixou cansado 351 Posts 8/09
Posted - Oct 12 2009 : 10:34AM
YES i'm sure it is, not sure if the US is the most racist country in the world, i really don't know, but this much i know, the US is arguably the most hypocritical nation on the planet when it comes to race relations, think about it, a country where saying the N word is tantamount to murder but sex with black men is considered such a taboo in 2009, the US is the only country where interracial is such a big deal, i'll take an european girl anyday, they're not nearly as politically correct but they're not so full of shit.
Edited by - braziliandude on 10/12/2009 10:35:51 AM
I knew this was coming and already had my rebuttal lying in wait. Having racist ideals IS NOT illegal, only acting on them is. For instance dear boy... I could think horrible things about Black men and there's not a damn thing anyone could do about it. But if I am a real estate agent who denies you the right to move into a certain neighborhood based on your race...well, that IS illegal. Pussy is not real estate or a single family home with a view. If I were a sex worker who only blew Asian guys but "anal only" for Black guys...who's going to sue me?? Your attempt to have an "Obama" moment for punana is absolutely laughable at best. And it's one sided because Black men in porn are getting five times more work than Black women, Middle Eastern women, Indian women, and last but not least...Asian men. So who really reserves the right to "cry racism"???
It's already understood that racist behaviors in many sectors of society are illegal, but racist thoughts are not, although if such thoughts are made public, they will be criticized. As are the racist behaviors which are not illegal, yet they are still socially condemned. And interestingly all the groups you mentioned are allowed to work with any female performer in the industry they want, in fact the only group that is not free to do so are Black males. So the argument you were attempting to make doesn't make much sense.
Edited by - Zaer on 10/12/2009 1:12:18 PM
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Tobias Deactivated User
475 Posts 1/09
Posted - Oct 12 2009 : 1:16PM
And, if it is real estate, it's the owner who holds the keys to the front door. So, perhaps the advice to buyers who don't like what the girl's selling is "Move along. There's plenty more spaces to check out."
[/quote] And, if it is real estate, it's the owner who holds the keys to the front door. So, perhaps the advice to buyers who don't like what the girl's selling is "Move along. There's plenty more spaces to check out." [/quote] You old romantic, you.
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BrazilianDude Deactivated User
Minha Vaidade me deixou cansado 351 Posts 8/09
Posted - Oct 12 2009 : 2:30PM
are you sure about that ? what "other groups" are you reffering to ?, as far as i know there are only 2 major groups, black males and asian males (i'm not counting black women i'm talking about heterosexual porn, lesbian porn is lame) , just name any vivid girl and tell me how many of them have worked with asian men, can you name a single asian man in the american porn industry ? i'm not so sure about other groups being allowed to work with ANY WHITE FEMALE they want, and mind you i don't really have a problem with this whole dodger thing, most girls in the american industry are not my type anyway so fuck it. i only have a problem with some people here who try to argue that excluding a race on grounds of attraction while working with any living thing no matter how ugly, fat and repulsive he may be is incredibly racist, that's all i want them to admit , that it is a blatantly racist decision and interracial fans have every right to be upset, just because they can do it doesn't mean it's not racist, being a klansman is racist too but is it illegal ?? no it's not my whole point is , refusing to work with black men because of their race is illegal ? no it's not, is it racist ? FUCKING YES, RACIST AS HELL, if everyone agrees i'm done here
Edited by - braziliandude on 10/12/2009 2:38:25 PM
Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious - Brendan Gill 723 Posts 4/09
Posted - Oct 12 2009 : 3:45PM
Haven't followed this whole thread, so excuse any redundancy, please. Racism is, among other things, refusing to work with someone because of his race: foolish, wrong. Not gone, but we're trying -- most of us. Refusing to work with someone of whatever race because the guy is an asshole, or he broke your best friend's heart or he doesn't wash often enough or for any reason but his race is not racism. It's preference. Sensible, understandable, protected by law in fact. Assuming or wanting to assume that preference is automatically racism whenever a black person or Latino or Chinese or whatever is involved is 'reverse racism' or maybe 'upside down racism' would be a better name. It's just as much a prejudice, a bigotry, as segregation or demeaning stereotypes. It's understandable, certainly, that people would be touchy on both sides of this issue, but being an African American and a victim of racism, does not make one less of a bigot himself for presuming every refusal to work with a black man is racist. Nor does it make him less wrong or less foolish.
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Tobias Deactivated User
475 Posts 1/09
Posted - Oct 12 2009 : 4:15PM
Nicely stated. The reason I started this thread was that I was sick of the dozens and dozens of interracial threads that had sprouted up - all of which invariably began with the basic assumption that a woman who's yet to have sex with a black man is a racist - an assumption that is not only patently wrong, but incredibly misogynistic. Up to this point, we haven't had any female performers comment on the issue - almost certainly because they are afraid of being bashed. Someone has to speak up for them though. Hopefully this thread has provided some solace and support for women to exercise choice regardless of how it may be viewed, to not give in to pressure, and to enter and exist in this industry in order to satisfy their OWN agenda - not anyone else's.
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Zaer Deactivated User
249 Posts 10/07
Posted - Oct 12 2009 : 4:56PM
When you have female performers who will work with whites, asians and latinos, but not Blacks, then assuming that they're racist against Blacks is entirely logical because in the majority of cases it's true.
^ Not true. As we're starting to see more and more, as girls are speaking out against their ex-agents, often it is the agents who actually won't allow girls to work with black guys. So then to call the girl racist is pretty inaccurate. There's a possibility that the girl has been told a 'horror story' about black people from someone else at some point in her life, and she has believed them. In which case, it would be incorrect to consider her racist; just gullible. It's possible she's seen the nightmare that is race relations in the current US porn industry, and decided for whatever reason she wanted to steer clear. One might then call her someone who likes to avoid conflict, someone who's afraid of controversy (though they end up getting controversy from another side anyway), or whatever; but not necessarily racist. The girl might be 'holding out' on working with black men because she believes that the longer she waits to work with all races, the larger amount of money she will get when she finally does do a scene with a black man. In this case she may be a shrewd business person, or a manipulator of some sort, or who knows what else; but it does not necessarily make her racist. There are likely plenty of other scenarios as well. Maybe a woman is racist. There are racist people everywhere, so it's possible. But nothing we know about her here is enough to make that conclusion.
The 'if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it's probably a duck' logic shouldn't be applied here.
The right to refuse to work with an individual is recognized by law. A person can be as discriminatory as suits them in their personal life. Associate with who they chose and be intimate with the persons of their choice. It is when this behavior is brought out into the business world that it becomes a problems. The people of this racially diverse country has decide though decade of hard struggle, that it is in the best interest of the nation to discourage racial discriminatory behavior. The discriminatory practices in porn are directed at one group, African Americans. White women in porn are not being victimized by mere talk on a porn board. Fans advocating and discussing what they want to see is fair use of this forum.
The belief that white women need to be protected from the predation of the blacks is as old as America. It's is the chief reason why we are saddled with these draconian drug laws. It wasn't true then, it's not true now. Women in porn are adults, some are young but adults none the less. In the event that porn had a sesmetic shift and the IR label was used universally for people of different ethnic origins, porn girls would still have the right to have a "No" list. . She could put the name of every black performer in porn on her list.
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realtip Deactivated User
2301 Posts 6/04
Posted - Oct 12 2009 : 5:46PM
Won't "allow" her? There goes the whole argument about the girls having the right to choose their own partners out the window.
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BrazilianDude Deactivated User
Minha Vaidade me deixou cansado 351 Posts 8/09
Posted - Oct 12 2009 : 5:48PM
first off , this thread of all threads is totally unnecessary, not the mention the idiotic title, second i highly doubt these girls are losing sleep over this, do you really think they care if they're called racist ? they don't, i bet some of them even laugh when they read such threads, do you really think they need any kind of "Help"? ooh yeah, poor them,being pressured into doing anal (like most girls are), getting humiliated by max hardcore, getting their heads shoved down the toilet by rocco, fucking a midget , getting pissed on , getting banged by 20 potbellies , ok, but having sex with a black man wow, how dare we even expect something like that from a girl ? no how misogynistic shame on me , we need to protect them from being called racist ooh how inhumane, maybe the UN or human rights could join in in this noble cause, do i feel bad about myself now for being so cruel ? hum ... let me think , HECK NO, if they have the right to discriminate based on race i have the right to hold whatever opinions i want about them , and i say they are racist, end of story
It is impossible to really know someones motivations. We are forced to draw conclusions from their behavior. Weighing the behavior and arriving at a conclusion regarding someone who is on the record stating a position seems to be practical.
^ How many are on the record stating a position? [edit to add: a position that clearly, or 'almost clearly', indicates racism/discrimination of some sort] Edited by - killbillvol69 on 10/12/2009 5:54:39 PM
@Starr Santiago: I'm pretty sure (though I can't be sure) that it your two replies to my posts, some sort of misunderstanding has occurred. Allow me to respond, and we'll see where we went wrong.I don't know how my post explains why these threads are allowed to fester. The only thing I offered was a response to a claim that many were making, that I felt was untrue; and I gave my reasons for why I thought it was untrue. The lowlifes are lowlifes; while I do my best to keep things civil around here, I certainly don't wish to rule with an iron fist. Most ADTers in fact think I moderate too much as opposed to too little.Nothing I said in my quote above says anything against girls working with who they wish, or implies anything about 'making' girls work or not work with any person or group of people. In fact in many of my other posts in this thread (though I recognize that one can't read every post in a long thread like this, and keep it straight who said what, etc.) I have said exactly those words: 1. If a particular woman always says yes to white guys and no to black guys, then fine, that's her right... 2. It was not my point that I even want to see any given white girl (or white girls in general) doing scenes with black guys. 3. [url=302684]Why am I saying all this? 4. ...I don't want to insist she does or doesn't do anything. Others have said the same thing. For example: Nimrod wrote:<brThe goal of these kind of discussions isn't to convince the stars to do IR. So I think your criticism may have been off a little bit. I'm not characterizing anyone or anything. In fact, see my post from earlier this evening where I write about all the reasons we can't (or at least shouldn't) characterize anyone as being anything, simply by observing their behaviour in the context of whether they will or will not (or have or have not) work(ed) with black people.
I have no doubt that race relations are problematic in the US; I don't believe though, that they are so much worse than other countries that we're talking about an entirely different animal. Maybe just one with an extra horn or two. While I have no means to test this, nor do I have any interest in doing so, I have a feeling that if suddenly white girls were forced to do interracial, not much would change in the US porn industry. A few girls might leave the biz, but they'd quickly be replaced; the rest of the girls who weren't working with black men previously would start working with black men, and they'd still do scenes just as hot (or not hot) as what they were known for doing before.
Not all women are who refuse to do IR are racist but given the comments of some of them, I have no doubt that they are . Given their comments and in some cases rumors too, there is no doubt in my mind that the following girls truly have issues with black men: Randie Wright,Neesa, Vicky Vette, Hannah West, Penny Porsche and of course Felix Vicious. I don't think black IR fans will ever forget Felix Vicious' vicious attacks. Edited by - Nimrod on 10/13/2009 1:56:22 PM
Zaer, I'm glad you made this point very clear. As much as I like Black females in porns, no one can say that indian men, asian men or black women are discriminated against in porn. Asian men/female of any race or WM/ BF doesn't sell much and that is the reason why they don't get much work. Asian men and black females don't get much work NOT because white females and white males don't want to work with them. As a performer, I see why Starr will not be happy about it but it will make so sense if asian men or black female fans complain.
To the person who used the word "lowlife" to describe IR fans who call on the girls who refuse to work with black men, that is very disrespectful. "lowlife" is a very loaded word when you don't even know the people you are talking to. I have an idea of who you are talking to. How can you call someone a lowlife when all you know about him is that he is black? For someone whose first language isn't English,you gotta give the Brazilian guy credit for coming here to debate you in your own language and still own you.I would like to see how long you will last on a Portuguese forum. As far me, I'm half African American and half French and I spent most of my life in French. I'm a black American citizen who has BS, Maitrise(Ms), DEA, Doctorat( Phd) from both the US (UC Berkeley)and France (Ecole Centrale)in Electrical Engineering, so stop trying to look down on people. Certaine fois, c'est un peu difficile d'imaginer jusqu'a quelle point certain americains peuvent etre raciste et ignorant. Tu es un vrais idiot pour venir defendre des prostituees sur un site pornographique. Apres tout, ces salopes sont des prostituees. Edited by - Nimrod on 10/12/2009 11:16:41 PM
Vanesea Blue's take on it. Just seen this in another forum.
(Vanessa Blue) (QUOTE) This is has been an interesting thread to read and I felt a desire to comment on it. So..... What isn't told to the end consumer is that there are a myriad of reasons why white girls won't work with black guys and it's usually not due to racism or prejudice. I will list a few of the reasons I've heard as a female talent and director in adult for the last 12 years: 1. The models Family will really be mad at her and possibly disown her altogether. (because fucking on camera isn't as bad as a black dick in your mouth! LOL) 2. The models boyfriend really hates black guys and can't stomach the idea of her in an IR scene. (However, once they breakup she becomes the biggest black dick jumper on earth- example:Kelly MF Wells- I Luv this woman! ) 3. The models agent/agency believes that they can charge more for the model who hasn't performed any IR so they forbid it until the model has been shot-out and then when the work is scarce they revamp her career by letting her fuck Mr. Marcus. 4. The model has been told by people in the biz that banging brothers will hurt her fanbase and the white fans will hate her and not come to her feature dance gigs down south if she does any IR whatsoever. 5. The model enters adult and doesn't get a chance to meet Mr. Marcus but instead sees the thug ethnic talent and decides she'd rather not engage in gangbang-style sex on video....until the work runs out, then she'll proudly grace the cover of "Gangland Stomp #952" Mind you this same model in private sees more black dick than the urinal at The Apollo Theatre... 6. My personal favorite reason: the pretty white girl who's knows she can make just as much money if not more by skipping that genre altogether and holding out for a big contract. If she doesn't get snapped up by her 30's and the work runs out she will then do all the IR her vagina can handle. I find all of those reasons crazy but it IS her body and her decision. I will admit that it pains me that as a black female if I chose to only work with brothers no one would know my name. I had to push hard to work with white males in order to be seen and was called a sell-out by alot of the black talent for doing so. People do what's profitable for them and as time and situations change for the model so may her perceptions of working with other races. Even though I don't really do boy/girl scenes anymore i find it's still hard to find white women who will simply do girl/girl or fetish scenes with me without trying to charge me their "Black Rate". (yes, there is actually a black rate! Some girls charge more for working with blacks). It's painfully insulting but a reality that cannot be avoided if you choose to work in the adult biz. The last scene I tried the book the "STAR" wanted $2500 to do a softcore catfight scene with me when the standard pay was $700! Needless to say she was easily replaced with a model who was better and happy to do the scene with me. Edited by - pokerman on 10/12/2009 11:15:20 PM Edited by - pokerman on 10/13/2009 7:47:38 AM
She also makes a good point at how you guys treat the black female talent though. (Vanessa Blue) (QUOTE) (freeones forum) Wow, this thread goes on....and I won't say names but a few of you called me out on trying to be nice and I was trying...not too well obviously! LOL To Girk1- Yes I knew of a few black models that had that rule and i won't blast them out but needless to say they are either not around anymore or they understood that there'd be a very short run for them if they didn't get past themselves and swallow a white load more often..... A good model to look at is Jada Fire. She's been in porn for about 10 years now and you never really took notice of her till around her 6-7th year when I helped her get with a white agency( that had previously refused her) and she began doing 99% of her scenes with white partners in whiter product. She then took on the fiery persona that has made her the amazing talent she is today.... I think if you love your IR porn and feel this strongly when you rub one out stop buying the product or watching the models that obviously don't work with blacks. It's easy to search a models work history and find out who does what. I can tell you that with todays jacked up economy most models are less concerned about the color of what's inside their pussies as long as green is going into their pockets. If you'd like to really get emotional check out the www.strongthread.com site and read each models "do" list- If you don't see the words "interracial" in there somewhere that means she don't ride the brown bologna pony. You will also notice one or two agencies where most of the girls don't do it....draw your own conclusions on that one. What I find steady about this topic is that it's always men who openly complain about this issue. Both the consumer and the ethnic male talent bitch about racism even though it's the black female who sits at the bottom of the IR-love totem pole. Then the same people go right back to loving the models and companies who openly steer away from IR product.... why is that? And more importantly, why does any of this matter when there's more big black dick IR product on the market than ever before? (Post three) Vanessa Blue (QUOTE) Hot Mega thanks for the breakdown. I won't disappoint you by responding in full to your thread but your Top performers theory, IMO is a big part of the "who won't work with who" problem.....It seems the bigger your name the bigger your "no" list becomes and the more selective you become about achieving more notoriety. We're all freakin' crazy i guess..... The rest of you guys are comedy GOLD! You guys do realize you're fighting about penis right? Who fucking cares when you got girls like Gianna Michaels who IMO should make up for every chick who won't do IR. Watch that goddess, rub one out, have a beer and forget about it! I'm quite amused that the tree of masturbation has grown so many little roots and limbs over the years that you the viewer has become so distracted with the BS that happens in EVERY working environment... I remember when porn was about hot sex with chicks & dudes who had afros between their legs and semi-decent acting skills! LOL I miss the Georgina Spelvin and Vanessa del Rio kinda lovin! Have we all been so desensitized by smut that we need to pick it apart like this? I think everyone just needs a little bit of big butt luvin' to make everything alright! Let me start the healing of the races and put the focus back where it belongs...
Edited by - pokerman on 10/13/2009 8:00:00 AM
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BrazilianDude Deactivated User
Minha Vaidade me deixou cansado 351 Posts 8/09
Posted - Oct 12 2009 : 11:59PM
no it's NOT a good forum, F.O. is as racist as you can get, yes it's very strict but not when it comes to racism ,it's strick if you like interracial but if you're a bigot you're more than welcome to post racist crap there , the only way to get threatened by the mods is to discuss interracial.
Edited by - braziliandude on 10/13/2009 12:06:30 AM
pokerman sorry I'm a bit unclear in your posts of Vanessa's posts above. Are some of the little comments made inside the posts yours, or hers? Could you maybe go back and distinguish what you say from what she says? Like, maybe put it in quotes?
The overwhelming majority of these women will never admit that they have a problem with Blacks, they'll just hide behind the excuses of "preferences" and "attraction issues." Which oddly enough don't extend to any other race who they gladly do scenes with. And as the other poster said, in lieu of their verbally explaining their actions, we have only their behavior to go on and based on that they have a problem working with Blacks, which is likely rooted in racism. And as for the other reasons put forward as possible explanations for their discriminatory behavior, these performers almost never use them. They instead stick to "attraction issues" and "preferences" not "their agent told them not to do it" or "they want more money for it." Now some of them are socially aware enough to know how their choice will be perceived by the public and decide to go with the "their family wouldn't approve" excuse, which conveniently removes all responsibility from them. But, the majority of performers either don't think to do that or don't care enough and stick to the aforementioned two frequently used excuses, which as we know are likely just excuses for racism.
You are right. I've read many interviews in the past and it's always the "attraction" excuse. If those other excuses were true in most cases, they will use it more often. They will not sound racist if they were blaming their agents or higher pay...but because they don't use that excuse, it must not be valid. It's "attraction", which in most cases is just an excuse for racism.
Posted - Oct 10 2009 : 6:23PM
It's frightening to see how some of these lowlives are allowed to verbally abuse the talent on here. It's practically online abuse.
