Hello, everyone. I have been noticing a trend regarding IR as of late with sites like Dogfart (mostly) and the like becoming more and more PC-centric. I'm not sure if it's a good thing or bad thing and am rather conflicted on this recent occurrence. On one end, this means more girls may try IR for the first time (or period) since the 'racist' and degrading stigmas will inevitably decrease. But on the other side of the coin, unfortunately, the genre becomes more and more stale or same-old so-to-speak. I enjoy the newer sites like BLACKED, DarkX, TeensLoveBlackCocks and BlackIsBetter. I really do. I just would love some diversity at times and am sometimes in the mood for more daring or edgy avenues to quench my insatiable, and ever more, undying thirst for IR porn. I liken it to pizza and sea food. Sure, I love pizza and could eat that fine Italian delicacy almost every day (if maintaining my slightly-less-than-blob-like figure wasn't a priority). Of course, sometimes I want steamy snow crab dipped in almost-too-hot butter. It's no one's fault, the heart wants what it wants. Making myself hungry here, but basically what I'm saying is... why not both? Nah, but seriously, though. Is Dogfart (and lots of other IR sites) becoming too much like BLACKED? Are these sites losing part of what made them who they are in the first place? Is race-play inherently wrong, regardless of it being all fantasy and both parties (I.E. races) being fine, if not even a bit turned on from it? Is IR becoming too PC?
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Feb 15 2016 : 4:51PM
Exactly the question that I'm asking.Actually, if Dogfart were becoming more like Blacked I'd be complaining less. What Dogfart is becoming is generic. By watering down the raceplay elements while still keeping a lid on the eroticism that Blacked and its clones are offering, there's less and less that really stands out about Dogfart. Something else I wrote on that other thread was that I would probably have dumped Dogfart had they not begun to regularly shoot gangbangs. Hell, I still might move on from them. One positive thing I will say is god bless Leya Falcon for staying true to what Dogfart was and shaking things up a bit in her last couple of appearances. That BTS was especially awesome.Of course not. As I've pointed out on several threads in the past, even Blacked is offering mild race play and not post-racial IR. Unfortunately, traditional raceplay has really declined. A lot of people seem to have a fetish double standard when it comes to traditional raceplay. I ranted about this repeatedly on another thread. Pornstars generally understand that other roleplay scenes are fantasy, not reality, but when it comes to hard race play, suddenly the roleplay must be taken at face value as racist, degrading, negative, etc.I'm happy to watch mild race play and post-racial IR content, but I want diversity. Is that too much to ask? Edited by - misspornUSA on 2/15/2016 4:52:31 PM
I've never gotten the IR thing, so I'm more than ok with IR being less a "thing" and more just two people having sex. I think most non Americans don't get it at all.
I hope not. I hate some of the issues that porn seemed to play on when I started watching porn. It is not inclusive, among other things and I find it disgusting.
^ Basically. IR porn isn't "becoming PC" because people are legitimately against it. It's happening because the Blacked style of IR that places less emphasis (but still places emphasis) on race is selling as well as just about anything right now, so people are copying it. If/when this stuff stops lighting up the sales charts, you'll have Dogfart going back to what they were doing, and most of the imitators will disappear.
I'm not completely sure about what you mean with PC , being European a large part of the IR taboo is missing with me, I can get the racist part , but not the taboo one. So I am sometimes lost for example I do get the thug part "using" a girl for their pleasure and basically once they emptied their balls the just go away. I don't get the naive or even idiotic girl getting exploited by a bunch of black guys, nor I get why a black man should manhandle a "poor white woman" or why is he supposed to do that. Anyway stressing the racial part is as racist as anything else I don't see any PC in it , unless for PC you mean less hard, not exploitative but lustful. Still this depicts a black man (or a black girl for that matter) as something you may consider just for sex , to cheat upon a white husband/boyfriend. Basically they still live on the opposite sides of a fence they may meet to fuck, but then they go back to their side afterwards. The real political correctness in IR would be an IR couple in a relationship not just for the sex engaged or married or even with children or stepchildren that would really be correctness Also to play some roles you must have the right performers some of them won't do some roles, hiring Mandingo or Lex or Sean Michaels means you don't play some roles you know they won't perform from the beginning. Plus some female performers are refusing to play such roles where the race is overstressed , you may have real problems to film such kind of scenes today, it's not just blacked
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Feb 16 2016 : 9:26AM
Are they though? Like I wrote "Actually, if Dogfart were becoming more like Blacked I'd be complaining less. What Dogfart is becoming is generic. By watering down the raceplay elements while still keeping a lid on the eroticism that Blacked and its clones are offering, there's less and less that really stands out about Dogfart."
^Well, not everybody trying to imitate Blacked.com is as good as Greg Lansky. A good director is a lot harder to imitate. From my sales numbers I see Blacked.com completely destroying their competition. Jacco
What I see in BLACKED is a sensual and erotic vibe that I don't see anyone else quite able to pull off. I think if or when others try to do it comes off as "vanilla" moreso than sensual and when others try to do a harder version than BLACKED it just tends to look like stuff we've been seeing before. That's not a bad thing per se if you like the stuff from before. BLACKED/Lansky works because it/he's good at doing a particular style of sex that struck a nerve at the present time. I can understand why others would try and tap into some of that success doing a knock version of some sort it's probably no going to work. All of the knock off and other IR lines have their own appeal and strengths should just doing what makes them different and let the chips fall where they may. They probably going to end up chasing off their core audience and still not bring over much of the BLACKED crowd.
I think that LCF hit the nail on the head when he said it about the performers today more than anything. The female performers today are a lot different than those girls from 10 years ago when you had hard race play featured very prominently. The female performers today when asked about them doing IR their top answer for not doing it besides career pacing seems to be that they object to the way that it is shot with the overracialized and fetishization. I just don't think that many of the female performers out there are generally comfortable with doing a scene that would require them to use hard language. A lot of these girls have black friends, some have black significant others, or black family members. If you build those kind of relationships it can be hard to play a role in which you are using such vile language. This kind of relates I remember last year during an interview Oprah was doing on Selma she remarked how some of the white actors in the movie had a difficult time with some of their scenes because they had to use such language. You would be asking a girl to call a fellow performer perhaps the absolute worst thing you could call a black performer even having said performers permission to do it wouldn't make it any easier. Then you have the case of the male performers. I just don't see too many of the black male talent pool being cool with the race play at all. Many of the male performers that were fine with or into hard race play are no longer active in the industry. I believe that Shane is the only one left from that end of the talent pool. Sean and Lex the other elder statesmen have never associated with those types of scenes, and the current prime talents like Rob, Isiah, Jason, Jovan, seem to pride themselves as being above that as well. Another thing is that mainstream porn companies are looking to appeal to the masses, and the fact that Hushpass and it's network stopped making new scenes tells me that people did not appreciate those scenes being made or else they would have still been producing them. If you are looking for the type of IR scenes that do emphasize race there are definitely places where you can find them. If you want to see your favorite porn performer do scenes like this many of them shoot custom videos doing things they would never do in mainstream. I know of a couple of them do scenes like this on clips4sale as well.
^ I agree with you. It only makes sense that the non-stereotypical negative type would appeal to a larger audience overall and more porn performers would be more comfortable doing it. I don't think there's really anything wrong with the porn that plays up the race aspect because that's some people's fetish but it's still a niche and it will always mostly only appeal to a specific part of the overall audience. So if other companies are actually trying to follow BLACKED success they might think that them moving away from the less PC stuff might be the way to go. But as I mentioned before I believe BLACKD success is because of a combination of things and only trying copy certain aspects probably isn't going to give others the same kind of success.
^ this picture says it all they could be cheaters , could be a married couple, could be boyfriends, could be random lovers , they could be anything , what this picture really shows is a couple lost in each others eyes who are going to have sex as a natural consequence to their apparent attraction , is it lust? Is it passion? is it Love? Who knows, and that's it ,the magic of blacked. I picked the picture they used to present themselves at their very beginning , they changed a bit , went back changed more, but you know what ? even in a 3 x 3 orgy they never lose that look. and that's it , all they need is there. Edited by - LCF on 2/17/2016 9:04:43 AM
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Feb 17 2016 : 11:37AM
There have been multiple directors/sites shooting minimally racialized or post-racial IR for years now, yet performers have been using that "the way that it is shot" complaint for all that time anyway. As for fetishization, Blacked absolutely fetishizes black men, and most every performer who is interested in IR wants to shoots for them. The characterization of black men on Blacked might be different from much of what came before, but the fetishization is still very much there. There was never a case when every Dogfart scene, or even most Dogfart scenes, featured the performer using "hard language", so I doubt that such language was ever a requirement. Even on Hush Pass, it was generally just the Shane Diesel scenes that featured the n-word, and not all Shane Diesel scenes had that language. Going back to performer excuses, many performers have implied over the years that shooting IR necessarily means using the n-word. I seriously question whether there was ever a time in the history of IR when most IR scenes featured the n-word.Fetish roleplay is a bit different than acting in a Hollywood film.Rob didn't care when Leya Falcon used the n-word in a BTS. I can't remember if Isiah has shot hard race play, but Jason certainly has. Jovan doesn't like it. Meanwhile, Jon Jon, Moe Johnson and plenty of other performers that Dogfart uses don't have an issue with it.Mercenary Pictures failed and they didn't shoot those kinds of scenes. The same is true of Silverback Entertainment. Personally, I don't know why Hushpass failed.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Feb 17 2016 : 11:47AM
Great pic and scene, but as you know the plots usually revolve around cheaters (white women cheating on their white husbands or boyfriends) and lust, not the other things you mentioned. Not a criticism btw. I love Blacked.
Did you mean the imitation part or the sales numbers? I would never call Mason an imitator. Sales wise, for us, Blacked.com is destroying all of their direct competition and even several non competitors. Jacco
^ I would say that DarkX is absolutely a competitor to Blacked, which means that if you're talking about the competition you are including Mason in that (and even before DarkX, you had the Blondes/Brunettes Go Black movies from HardX).
II know but from pictures like that you can't be sure a complete different image approach compared to the others with the possible exception of Babes and Colette
I would say "more PC" but not "too PC." As others have pointed out, most Blacked scenes involve white women cheating on their white husbands/boyfriends with black men. The racial element is the main part of it, it's just done in a slightly less controversial manner than before. Personally, I think if I'm going to watch a scene with that theme I want it to go all the way and be nasty about it like the old sites. But in general, I want to avoid any themes based solely around race.
But even then, Blacked.com overpowers simply by sheer volume. As no one knows how many subscribers to the websites there are it’s hard to make a comparison, so we’re limited to DVD sales. Looking at that, the "xxx go Black" series from HardX were 3 DVDs in total (until now) and currently three DVDs from Dark X. Against 21 from Blacked so far (over the last 1½ years). Nonetheless, at the local rental place, the Blacked DVDs are usually hard to find (because rented so often), so yeah, there must be something about it.
I only know about DVD sales (as that is my job after all) and Blacked.com is one of the biggest sellers per title, period. So yes, they destroy all of their direct competion, at least with my customers. Jacco
That pic illustrates what I was saying before about BLACKED scenes looking sensual and erotic. The naturalist look of the girls and the sex looking more like two people making love instead the more typical guy pounding away at the girl. I think some of that would be lost with if they started shooting with girls with implants and tattoos that have that typical pornstar look. Again, nothing wrong with that look and nothing wrong with scenes of a guy pounding away at a girl but for people who like seeing something else BLACKED appeal is obvious. Plus, those scenes are just nice to look at. The lighting, the locations, what the girls wear all work together to make some very nice looking porn. I say this as a person who isn't even a big BLACKED fan. I finally bought a DVD a few weeks ago because of a pornstar I wanted to see. It's nice well done porn but most of the girls I like watching tend to be the over the top pornstar looking types. But it's clear BLACKED puts out quality stuff and they're great at the type of porn they do.
Are people complaining that newer sites have black male characters who come across as human beings who may have college degrees instead of stereotypical gangsta thugs who fuck like animals instead of like humans? Are you just asking for more use of the n-word? Who wants to step up and define exactly what they mean by "race play"?
^ Heavy race play is just scenes that place a heavy emphasis on the race of the performers. In this instance, we're just talking about scenes that heavily emphasize the blackness of the male performer (and sometimes, the whiteness of the female performer). You don't have to use the n-word to do this, or resort to the stereotypical thug image, it's just that that's an easy way to do it if you're trying to set up a story for the scene. Blacked scenes are absolutely still race play scenes the majority of the time (which is my least favorite thing about them, to be honest), they just don't lean as heavily on it as a site like Blacks on Blondes. Edited by - whatsatelephonebill on 2/17/2016 11:15:32 PM
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Ben Mockridge Deactivated User
382 Posts 9/15
Posted - Feb 18 2016 : 4:50AM
Agreed. Although political correctness obviously has a legitimate place in society personally i think the exploration of non-pc in porn can be ok. Like ghetto gaggers is acutely non-pc (although i dont recal them using the n word) but it works on the strength of the characters involved ,like jimmy, and the self evident comic nature of the whole scenario meaning its funny rather than being outright unpleasant. Same way that black on white or white on white etc can be amiable or offensive depending how the thing is handled. I think if any site made a genuinely unpleasant non-pc racist type product that genuinely only appealed to proper racists they woudnt be in business long.
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Feb 18 2016 : 5:07AM
Most of the Dogfart scenes I've seen were substandard. Blacked is beating them because their scenes are better shot and hot, the relative lack of racial sterotyping is also refreshing and probably has wider appeal. I would also say Blacked is reaching people who didn't even know Dogfart. If Dogfart continues along as they use to they would probably emd up with a lot of the other production companies into oblivion.
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Rosco Fuji Deactivated User
On the licking stick, Mr. Magic Dick! 3309 Posts 2/09
Posted - Feb 18 2016 : 10:12PM
That's all it is, a better product.
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Rosco Fuji Deactivated User
On the licking stick, Mr. Magic Dick! 3309 Posts 2/09
Posted - Feb 18 2016 : 10:15PM
Or, and more realistically and I hate to pop your bubble, it could be 2 naked people paid to look at each other before they fuck on camera for people to spank it off to.
^ since we were talking about ACTORS portraying characters , it was a given , I was obviously talking about the result and what was meant to imply on a imaginative point of view. Also I already know there was a crew and a director in there, don't bother to tell me. Also don't bother to tell me there is no Superman out there I already know it's a paid actor along with visual effects
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Ben Mockridge Deactivated User
382 Posts 9/15
Posted - Feb 19 2016 : 9:46AM
^ hey at least santas real and that not disputed by anyone , heres proof ; checking the bodywork on some of his elfs.
Edited by - ben mockridge on 3/7/2016 1:44:59 PM
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DiamondJackman Deactivated User
Straight From My Brown Balls, Using Good Pussy 501 Posts 10/15
Posted - Mar 7 2016 : 8:04AM
I'm glad their finally throwing out that racist, white supremacist, black men are animals that need to fuck an pretty dainty innocent white girl crap. White women are not nor have they ever been innocent. I don't understand why we have to seen as animals too you people. We're not savages, we're people with blood flowing though our veins, thoughts flowing through our brains. Why you so obsessed with race-play and thuggery? Edited by - Diamondjackman on 3/7/2016 8:21:43 AM
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TastyFilthyGirlStinkHoles Deactivated User
It just looks and feels so fucking good! 142 Posts 3/16
Posted - Mar 7 2016 : 8:12AM
So in other words they are becoming less racist for your tastes? black men need to be portrayed as uneducated thugs and white women as innocent little saints, that's the sort of garbage you're looking for? What exactly are you asking for here? what do you mean by less PC. come out and say it.
I understand it to a certain degree. to me porn, is a fantasy that work the better the more I can identify with someone featured in the scene. that's of course not just valid for skin colour, but for example also body type (I'm neither fat nor muscular but build pretty "average". if the 1on1 scene is starring a male that's one of those it would also take me out of it a bit).but isn't that kind of the point? because the very same argument could easily be made regarding sexist language. which btw speaks volumes about the way "we" view females: calling black performers "n*ggers" = absolute no-go. calling women "sl*ts", "wh*res", "f*cktoys", spitting at the name, making them gag etc. = no problem. if we perceive porn as an acted out fantasy instead of a "documentary" this should apply to either everything or nothing. but cherry picking which kind of fetishization/degration is okay and which is not seems a bit weird (and hypocritical) to me. Edited by - hudson hawk on 3/7/2016 10:17:14 AM
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TastyFilthyGirlStinkHoles Deactivated User
It just looks and feels so fucking good! 142 Posts 3/16
Posted - Mar 7 2016 : 10:37AM
Hopefully you'll be just as happy to hear the white cast being called cr*ckers, h*nkeys, p*ck*rwoods etc....? Where does it end? If you think using such foul language on black performers after seeing the history of black people in America, then surely it would be okay to use foul and degrading language to the jews too? maybe its okay for directors to make cast members make use of Nazi slurs too? How far do you want this to go exactly?
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Mar 7 2016 : 12:00PM
The pretty, dainty, innocent, white girl stereotype is alive and well, and there's plenty of raceplay over the years that hasn't depicted Blacks as anymore animalistic than anyone else.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Mar 7 2016 : 12:13PM
I agree with you completely, and I've made this point multiple times on other threads. The double standard is ridiculous. Unlike like roleplay in general, IR for some reason must be taken literally. Yet no one who promotes this irrational double standard has explained why race based fetish roleplay is unacceptable, but gender based fetish roleplay is just fine. In reality, if the former is racist, the latter must also be sexist.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Mar 7 2016 : 12:23PM
It's interesting that you didn't speak directly to hudson hawk's point about the acceptability of sexist language. Critics of IR roleplay have failed to explain why race should be off limits but it's just fine for gender to stay on the table. Why aren't these critics being consistent and asking that all all porn be politically correct?
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Mar 7 2016 : 12:40PM
A fairer comparison would be between a word like 'nigger' and something like 'filthy stupid cunt.' I think a lot of porn fans would be turned off by that level of verbal abuse.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Mar 7 2016 : 12:43PM
^I think that most of those porn fans just wouldn't sign up to, say, Sex and Submission then. How many of them would say that Sex and Submission is a sexist site that should change?
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Mar 7 2016 : 12:53PM
I generally agree but what's the problem if someone wants to watch IR without that element? Myself, I don't care for IR as IR per se. I actually like black-on-black a fair bit and became a fan of some of Justin Slayer or Lex's scenes. But for me it was more about them as performers rather than black men. If I want to watch them in a scene with a fav like Karlee Gray why do I have to listen to the use of 'nigger' in the scene?
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Mar 7 2016 : 1:09PM
^I wrote earlier:Dogfart has gone from occasionally offering hard raceplay to basically eliminating it. I'm only asking that some of that kind of content be produced outside of Clips 4 Sale.
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DiamondJackman Deactivated User
Straight From My Brown Balls, Using Good Pussy 501 Posts 10/15
Posted - Mar 7 2016 : 2:56PM
I know, but White women are not innocent all the time.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Mar 7 2016 : 4:06PM
^That's not new. When in IR history have white women been portrayed as "innocent all the time"? In fact, white women have regularly been portrayed as sluts in IR scenes. Edited by - misspornUSA on 3/7/2016 4:07:42 PM
This, exactly. I like Justin Slayer not because he's black but because he seems like one smooth operator in his BTSes, and it manifests as pure chemistry in many of his scenes. It's awesome to see a woman positively charmed by a guy, and also completely dicked the fuck down the way she wanted to be dicked the fuck down. Then again, the same things goes for Manuel Ferrara... what does race have to do with anything? I do wonder just who it is that still thinks that IR is taboo, if anyone, and where the hell do they live?
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Mar 7 2016 : 4:32PM
^Interracial relationships/sex are still taboo in much of the US, not just among non-blacks but in a substantial portion of the black community as well.
Posted - Feb 15 2016 : 3:04PM
