Waiting to Shoot IR for a Bigger Pay Day (page 56)

Author	Post
LCF All-Star Member Non Prevalebunt! 10364 Posts 1/05	Posted - Jun 6 2017 : 5:58PM KatjaKassin wrote: I agree with Mr Marcus. it's too simplistic to say where I was born determined my attitudes. it is much deeper than that. My skin is still white and I do not have to face certain issues compared to people of color. I am also from a Western European country where I could easily come here on a visa compared to many other who do not have that privilege or whose ancestors were brought here against their will. My attitudes about the US are formed by my experiences living here and me making the effort to explore them. I think you do not give me enough credit or do not appreciate the complexity of such topics as racism, discrimination or privilege enough when you refer to my place or birth or the way I came to be American to explain all of it. Many European countries see a surge in populistic sentiments at the moment and it is not really true that Europeans are somehow less racist or more open. Click to expand I think he referred to racial slavery and segregation , it's a way of thinking almost unknown to us , even to those of us who experienced Fascism and Nazism and racial laws it's been for a short time , not centuries , it's not carved in our culture ,i didn't have the time to go under our skin so to speak (I'm a white French-Italian and I've been told stories about that from both sides of my heritage , but none of them was a direct victim of any racial discrimination whatsoever). Edited by - LCF on 6/6/2017 6:02:07 PM [Link]
Snowbunny Sorcerer Deactivated User She's hot but not my type of stroke game, I don't play sword fights with that which mirrors me. 146 Posts 5/17	Posted - Jun 7 2017 : 3:59PM KatjaKassin wrote: I agree with Mr Marcus. it's too simplistic to say where I was born determined my attitudes. it is much deeper than that. My skin is still white and I do not have to face certain issues compared to people of color. I am also from a Western European country where I could easily come here on a visa compared to many other who do not have that privilege or whose ancestors were brought here against their will. My attitudes about the US are formed by my experiences living here and me making the effort to explore them. I think you do not give me enough credit or do not appreciate the complexity of such topics as racism, discrimination or privilege enough when you refer to my place or birth or the way I came to be American to explain all of it. Many European countries see a surge in populistic sentiments at the moment and it is not really true that Europeans are somehow less racist or more open. Click to expand I most certainly do understand the complexities of racism/white supremacy. I was simply trying to point out the absurdity in the American form of racism which permeates the society a lot more than let's say Germany does. Many Europeans have been completely shocked when travelling to the states to find out how backwards Americans tend to be on racism. I'm not diminishing the problems that Europe faces, particularly Eastern Europe when it comes to the surge in white nationalism or the the racism shown towards black/African football players in Serie A and La Ligue such as Mario Balotelli or Neymar. The difference however, is that unlike the U.S., those countries don't boast about their superiority claiming amongst others things to a ''shining city on a hill'' and nonsense like that. [Link]
muggle Member 52 Posts 10/16	Posted - Jun 8 2017 : 12:34PM Snowbunny Sorcerer wrote: I'm not diminishing the problems that Europe faces, particularly Eastern Europe when it comes to the surge in white nationalism or the the racism shown towards black/African football players in Serie A and La Ligue such as Mario Balotelli or Neymar. The difference however, is that unlike the U.S., those countries don't boast about their superiority claiming amongst others things to a ''shining city on a hill'' and nonsense like that. Click to expand If you want to call it "racism" I believe you are not 100% correct. Probably in Europe right now it's more accurate to talk about Xenophobia, which is more of a defensive attitude against a foreign danger. The racism is the result and the consequence of unresolved social issues due to governments ineptitude: imagine thousands of people without any sign of civilization - of course the educated elites don't migrate - come into your homeland and live as they want with the complacency of the authority, no respect at all for the written and unwritten laws of the community. Suddenly you feel helpless and you feel the hatred inside you growing out of frustration couse you are put in a situation you don't want to be (unless you are welthy enough to create social distance from all the troubles - champagne socialists for the win!). Naturally you address this hatred towards the ethnic group that you see invading your vital space. Thus obtaining racism that has nothing to do with race! LCF, you got the point: we should be able, as in the roman times, to share the same Civitas, to recognize the same values as fundamental. Civis romanus sum means exactly that: I belong to a cultural world defined by our mos maiorum and humanitas, I recognize them in you and you in me. That's the way to obliterate the racism issue. That's why I can't understand the racism issue in America: black or white, these days you speak the same language and have the same education. There isn't the cultural clash that I believe is crucial in europe. In the words of A. Merkel: multiculturalism has failed! About Balotelli... (who's not playing in Serie A anymore btw) The problem with him is not the fact he is black, but that he is a complete idiot! Irritating and overrated player. Has no respect for his teammates, his fans or his coach. On the other hand I don't think any Milan supporter has ever insulted legends like Gullit, Rijkaard, Weah, Seedorf, Cafu, Ronaldinho etc. who are gentlemen and true masters of the game. LCF wrote: even to those of us who experienced Fascism and Nazism and racial laws it's been for a short time Click to expand To be honest Germany and eastern europe had a history of centuries of antisemitism due to the reclusive nature of Ashkenazim. But Italy had actually never known it until 1938 and if you read/saw The Finzi Contini Garden, you know it came out of nowhere. Suffice to say that jewish people were listed in the fascist party until then (you had to if you wanted to work)! H. Arendt wrote that until the nazi occupation in 1943 not one jew were executed in italy but worst case scenario only imprisoned. [Link]
LCF All-Star Member Non Prevalebunt! 10364 Posts 1/05	Posted - Jun 8 2017 : 4:06PM ^ I was talking about that said American general attitude toward blacks rather than racism by itself , though there are similitudes, the Jewish were enclosed into ghettos (a word originated in Venice if I'm not mistaken) but then, the jewish weren't recognized at sight and weren't physically that much different from their neighbors , there was a reason for having them foorced to wear a sign , to make them pointable Edited by - LCF on 6/8/2017 4:07:39 PM [Link]

muggle Member 52 Posts 10/16	Posted - Jun 9 2017 : 4:27AM Yes, you are right! The etymology is disputed but "Ghetto" likely comes from the venetian word "gheto": it means "throw" becouse originally it was a public foundry. But the venetian historical ghetto had a different meaning and purpose: to protect jewish people more than to persecute them. It was not much different from other places of the city like "Fondaco dei Turchi" or "Fondaco dei Tedeschi" where turkish (islamic) or german (protestant) people lived togheter. Even if they had restrictions the purpose was to trade peacefully, not to vex anybody. Maybe today it seems still a harsh treatment, but consider this had happened centuries before the americans started the slave trade... Btw Venice abolished the slave trade in 960!!! [Link]
Snowbunny Sorcerer Deactivated User She's hot but not my type of stroke game, I don't play sword fights with that which mirrors me. 146 Posts 5/17	Posted - Jun 9 2017 : 7:28AM muggle wrote: About Balotelli... (who's not playing in Serie A anymore btw) The problem with him is not the fact he is black, but that he is a complete idiot! Irritating and overrated player. Has no respect for his teammates, his fans or his coach. On the other hand I don't think any Milan supporter has ever insulted legends like Gullit, Rijkaard, Weah, Seedorf, Cafu, Ronaldinho etc. who are gentlemen and true masters of the game. Click to expand I've seen that justification before, and quiet frankly, I don't buy it. It's racism, end of story! Edited by - Snowbunny Sorcerer on 6/9/2017 7:29:40 AM [Link]
Dread Senior Member Latex and boobs 5085 Posts 3/07	Posted - Jun 9 2017 : 4:21PM About Balo. BULL FUCKING SHIT. Nice went to Bastia this past season and he was getting all types of racist shit thrown at him. He may be a knucklehead at times (Edit: And nowhere near the problem child but out.) but don't sit here and act like Europe is all cool when it comes to black athletes. ----Dread's Twitter---- Edited by - dread on 6/9/2017 4:22:40 PM [Link]
muggle Member 52 Posts 10/16	Posted - Jun 10 2017 : 10:09AM Snowbunny Sorcerer wrote: I've seen that justification before, and quiet frankly, I don't buy it. It's racism, end of story! Click to expand Quiet frankly I've seen him using racism as justification for things like this. Which is, to use the words of a wise man: Dread wrote: BULL FUCKING SHIT. Click to expand Dread, I was thinking about his Inter and Milan period but your example is interesting so let's think about it! Why Bastia hooligans insulted him and not Cyprien, Plea or all the other black players in Nice? Or even worse: what if they did, but nobody talks about them simply becouse they don't have the same appeal? Is still racism the issue, or the mediatic persona whose narrative is built around it? Honestly, I suggest to let him be and move on... Dread wrote: don't sit here and act like Europe is all cool when it comes to black athletes. Click to expand How can I speak for Europe? [Link]
LCF All-Star Member Non Prevalebunt! 10364 Posts 1/05	Posted - Jun 10 2017 : 12:19PM muggle wrote: Quiet frankly I've seen him using racism as justification for things like this. Click to expand Let's put some perspective over that , it was the clash against Barcelona , Inter the team Balotelli was playing for was winning 3-1 in the Home match and could not afford to take another score because there was the away match yet to play. Barcelona back then was coached by Guardiola and was arguably considered the strongest soccer team in the world . Inter players gave it all, one of them ,Pandev, had to be substituted beause he was almost injuring his muscles trying to keep up with Barcelona players, but all of Inter was extremely tired because in order to keep and push Barcelona back they played with three attackers and only three midfielders one of which (Sneijder) was keen to attack himself , this forced everybody to run a lot more than the usual to cover as much terrain as possible to defend over Barcelona's counterattacks. Balotelli came in to substitute Pandev and was instructed to help his teammates , he has the strenght of a bull , runs fast and was very fresh , he's also tall and very effective with head hits, but then he placed himself close to midlane insted of help defending and covering and just waited for the ball giving no help to the team and forcing his exausted teammates to run for him too as if they didn't have their hand full already and also putting in serious danger the match having forced his team to play lacking a man on the defensive line especially someone like him. The public was disappointed and as Barcelona pressured Inter inside their defensive area with still ten minute to play ,at this point reacted badly and begun to wistle against him. At the end of the game , Balotelli removed his jersey and very clearly throwed it on the ground in front of 0ver 60.000 disapponted supporters enraging them, from then on he got refused and and insulted by Inter's supporters. You have to know that in such very team was an African player it was Samuel Eto'o an attacker who didn't bother to run all the way to defensive line when need and went in the back lanes to defend and to do what Balotelli should have done. Not only no Inter supporter ever wistled at him but he's still considered one of the best players ever seen with their Jersey , he's granted extreme respect and esteem still today. Balotelli was a piece and was treated accordingly , in some cases might have been racial but in most cases it was just him as a person who happened to be black Coach Mourinho said : If a player can't find himself motivated against Barcelona then when? So he removed Balotelli from the team from then to the end of the championship and Inter wanted him away at the end of the season Edited by - LCF on 6/10/2017 1:18:38 PM [Link]
killbillvol69 All-Star Member ^Lucy Pinder 18634 Posts 4/08	Posted - Jun 10 2017 : 12:25PM ^ You're still missing the point. Had it been a white player they were angry with, they would have yelled insults about him, not about his race. But he was a black player, and so many people yelled insults about his race, not just about him individually. That's the point. It's not that he was hated, or even why he was hated. It's what they did once they hated him. (When I say "they", I'm referring to fans who yelled racist things. Not all fans.) [Link]
LCF All-Star Member Non Prevalebunt! 10364 Posts 1/05	Posted - Jun 10 2017 : 12:34PM ^ I don't remember anybody doing that in the match I'm talking about especially because Eto'o was in there doing a lot more than his due and he was black too and very sensitive to the matter if he heard something like that he would have left the field in no time. He did so at least once in his career Also it was the very first time that Inter supporters ever contested him , he's been with Inter since he was a kid , all of his career had been within Inter up to that point. To throw away the jersey is the ultimate gesture of despise toward it and all that it represents and no supporter would condone it less of all soccer supporters Furthermore he said that the full behaviour of the supporters was racist , he meant the whole contestation over him , as of today in interviews he still doesn't get why they contested him in that match , still say they were just racist and were contesting him because he was black BTW even though they had to remove Balotelli from the team Inter that year won everything they could :Serie A National Championship, National Cup and UEFA Champions League I have to add that I dont excuse in any way those few who might have said racist or skin related things against him , but the vast majority was really pissed with him personally Edited by - LCF on 6/10/2017 1:16:48 PM [Link]
JackSparrow Deactivated User 7235 Posts 7/11	Posted - Jun 10 2017 : 1:04PM please not forget that Balotelli himself is not the brightest candle on the cake.his behaviour plays a lot into the heat he gets and mostly not because he is a black dude ,he is an rich arrogant prick ,he got kicked by Inter and Liverpool and from the national squad aswell and sure not because he is an easy and nice person. [Link]
Snowbunny Sorcerer Deactivated User She's hot but not my type of stroke game, I don't play sword fights with that which mirrors me. 146 Posts 5/17	Posted - Jun 11 2017 : 10:00AM LCF wrote: Balotelli was a piece and was treated accordingly , in some cases might have been racial but in most cases it was just him as a person who happened to be black Click to expand Really? [Link]
Snowbunny Sorcerer Deactivated User She's hot but not my type of stroke game, I don't play sword fights with that which mirrors me. 146 Posts 5/17	Posted - Jun 11 2017 : 10:07AM Wow at "JackSparrow", "LCF" and "Muggle", you guys are really trying excuse racism. You guys sound JUST like a white racist redneck you saw no problem with slavery/Jim crow/segregation. This is victim blaming just like women who get raped, "well maybe if she didn't wear that skimpy skirt". Hey guys, if you spell my name wrong is it ok if I call you a white b*****d? Edited by - Snowbunny Sorcerer on 6/11/2017 10:10:39 AM [Link]

killbillvol69 All-Star Member ^Lucy Pinder 18634 Posts 4/08	Posted - Jun 11 2017 : 10:15AM OK let's calm down in here. Please remember this part from the ADT forum etiquette - "Adult DVD Talk is a Friendly Community. Treat fellow posters as neighbors. Please be respectful of each other and each other's threads. If what someone has posted angers you, wait until you calm down before you respond or simply don't respond." [Link]
LCF All-Star Member Non Prevalebunt! 10364 Posts 1/05	Posted - Jun 11 2017 : 1:02PM Snowbunny Sorcerer wrote: Wow at "JackSparrow", "LCF" and "Muggle", you guys are really trying excuse racism. You guys sound JUST like a white racist redneck you saw no problem with slavery/Jim crow/segregation. This is victim blaming just like women who get raped, "well maybe if she didn't wear that skimpy skirt". Hey guys, if you spell my name wrong is it ok if I call you a white b*****d? Edited by - Snowbunny Sorcerer on 6/11/2017 10:10:39 AM Click to expand Not at all but apparently to some people every time a black guy is involved into anything he just has to claim racism and he suddenly becomes the victim even though apparently it's just him being the ultimate asshole Nobody is dening that say a hundred among the 60.000 in the San Siro stadium did say something racist but this is in the realm of possibilities because we can't hear nothing of that sort , and this would be inexcusable but the way some put it here looked like everybody was being racist toward Balotelli which really was not the case , I don't know about Bastia and Nice I say nothing about that , but for Inter Barcelona I can for sure, he managed to really piss off even his best friend in the team , Materazzi who literally lifted and slammed him against a wall when the match ended. As for Jim Crow I lack knowledge who was it? Also sgregation is nothing we ever experienced in Europe, we never allowed such thing how can you even think we would condone that? Last but not least we had marches against segregation in South Africa with dozens or even hundreds of thousand people marching in there You really are going way out of line here especially because it would seem either you don't know anything about Balotelli or you are willingly ignoring the hundreds episodes of extreme arrogance he's done , such as parking his car wherever he pleaseseven obstructing the road or going in the forbidden direction and when the police came just say . what the fuck you want dude? Unlike you I can pay dozens of fines , just fine me eandgo fuck yourself , and return to starve at home Edited by - LCF on 6/11/2017 4:58:47 PM [Link]
Dat_1_Dude Senior Member 1779 Posts 1/15	Posted - Jun 11 2017 : 3:51PM ^^^ Snowbunny, a lot of people are foreign and will not understand many American historical references. You have to be more explicit when explaining the era in America where "separate but equal" and reasonable doubt because of pigmentation existed and were legally exercised without repercussion [Link]
LCF All-Star Member Non Prevalebunt! 10364 Posts 1/05	Posted - Jun 11 2017 : 5:08PM ^ Also that all of us Europeans consider ourselves a cultural product of French Revolution , to segregate a population is unthinkable here , even now even with terrorism and with lots of political party claiming for more strict laws toward the Arabians an Muslim , still the vas majority of the Europeans do not allow such thing , whe the police encamped some refugees and maintained the too long there was a vast reaction from the voters to the point to force the goverment to outlaw them as they were and grant rights and limiting the time of permanence to those in there Before anybody mentions the nazis there was a war against them it's not that they could go away with their crimes freely Edited by - LCF on 6/11/2017 5:11:33 PM [Link]
KatjaKassin Senior Member 1257 Posts 5/03	Posted - Jun 11 2017 : 8:33PM a while back there was a racism debate involving German black soccer player Boateng. Don't think this does not exist in Europe because it sure as hell does https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/may/29/german-far-right-party-row-jerome-boateng-neighbour-comments [Link]
Dread Senior Member Latex and boobs 5085 Posts 3/07	Posted - Jun 11 2017 : 11:32PM There's been multiple times where black/african players have had things like bananas thrown at them during matches. I remember reading about some early on in the European seasons. Also, Balo was on his best behavior at Nice and was still subject to racial shit from fans. Edit: I remember that story about Boateng. Fucking sad. He's an important part of Bayern too and hasn't had any issues that i've read about. ----Dread's Twitter---- Edited by - dread on 6/11/2017 11:33:41 PM [Link]
muggle Member 52 Posts 10/16	Posted - Jun 12 2017 : 7:03AM Snoybanni surceror, who are you calling redneck? You think you're better than me? :D Come on dude, don't embarrass yourself, you clearly don't know anything about football. LCF was kind enough to explain what happened in details but you keep ignoring everything that doesn't suit you... According to you now I promote racism, slavery and apparently also rape... becouse I said Balotelli is a moron. Am I also homophobic? Please let me know. Totally different topic is the one mentioned by Katja: Racism in football is and will be an issue as long as racism per se exists in society. [Link]
LCF All-Star Member Non Prevalebunt! 10364 Posts 1/05	Posted - Jun 12 2017 : 3:47PM KatjaKassin wrote: a while back there was a racism debate involving German black soccer player Boateng. Don't think this does not exist in Europe because it sure as hell does https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/may/29/german-far-right-party-row-jerome-boateng-neighbour-comments Click to expand I never said this doesn't exist I was merely stating that when it comes to Balotelli his skin isn't the main issue , there was another player who got similar attention from the opposite supporters it was Zlatan Ibrahimovic , especially in Rome the reason was his attitude on the field and the fact that he was kinda blunt in interviews , Coach Mourinho was in the same wagon too. But there was no fuss about them beong mocked and basically insulted . I don't think an American could really grasp the difference between Rooters attacks and actual insults from the supporters who do cheer their team but also attack the others who obviously retaliate the same way . Do I really have to mention Eric Cantona? the most "hated" player from all adversaries of his team and yet all of them would have liked a Cantona in their team too Also about bananas , they are very common , it's a phallic symbol especially in Italy to show a banana just means "we got your asses" or you're losing or you lost, or you will lose . Why are you si happy? you're going to lose it's shown to every player of the opposite team , of course if you look at it with a made up meaning or some TV shows them put in front of a black player and implying something different well... . I'm talking about enflatable bananas I'm not aware of any true banana thrown to anybody , I also don't know shit abot what happened in Nice with Balotelli , I only intervened about him in Italy when he was playing with Inter and of course when he went to play with Milan (again nothing to do with race , Inter and Milan are Archirivals , he was seen as a traitor especially after what he did with Barcelona Edited by - LCF on 6/12/2017 3:55:54 PM [Link]
LCF All-Star Member Non Prevalebunt! 10364 Posts 1/05	Posted - Jun 12 2017 : 4:08PM killbillvol69 wrote: ^ You're still missing the point. Had it been a white player they were angry with, they would have yelled insults about him, not about his race. But he was a black player, and so many people yelled insults about his race, not just about him individually. That's the point. It's not that he was hated, or even why he was hated. It's what they did once they hated him. (When I say "they", I'm referring to fans who yelled racist things. Not all fans.) Click to expand I mentioned Ibrahimovic and I just remember that , yes he's white and was racially insulted more than once he's a Swedish with Slavic descent so he was insulted as a "gipsy" and no, there was no fuss about that [Link]
LCF All-Star Member Non Prevalebunt! 10364 Posts 1/05	Posted - Jun 12 2017 : 4:28PM Anyway we're WAAY off topic .... [Link]

Rosco Fuji Deactivated User On the licking stick, Mr. Magic Dick! 3309 Posts 2/09	Posted - Jun 12 2017 : 9:17PM Jumping ahead [Link]
Snowbunny Sorcerer Deactivated User She's hot but not my type of stroke game, I don't play sword fights with that which mirrors me. 146 Posts 5/17	Posted - Jun 13 2017 : 10:06AM LCF, put the shovel down man. Edited by - Snowbunny Sorcerer on 6/13/2017 10:10:14 AM [Link]
LCF All-Star Member Non Prevalebunt! 10364 Posts 1/05	Posted - Jun 13 2017 : 1:39PM As a complete coincidence almost a Murphy's Law today did happen something weird. I was at the city hall because I needed a certificate I had to send abroad , I had to line up to get the proper form and to pay for the service , there were two counters but only one line , as any of the counters went free the line advanced , it wasn't long just 6 people , at one point a black guy arrived and went all the way to one counter lining up himself behind the one in there as he was the second in line instead of the seventh one.the closest of us told him the line was longer and that he had to line up behind the last one not the first one. He then said :Shut your mouth white racist ! And refused to move from there , then another one explained him the situation , wouldn't you find weird that all of us are lining up leaving a counter free? "You are all trying to abuse a black man and force me to go back to you whites That time has ended I won't move from here , it's my turn and I intend to have it respected." Then everybody begun to yell at him , go back that's not your turn. Seconds later the police arrived (it was the city hall after all) but the dude continued to yel against us , against racism and even demanded to take us away and then the police asked US to step back to avoid any turmoil (needless to say another black guy arrived to help him even though he knew nothing) but in reality he wanted to avoid troubles but then one of those in line was an attorney who just said he was and asked the police their names and other significant data , informing them that they were helping the actual disturber and having him wasting valuable time . It was at this point that the police finally forced him to his place in line , the line went smoothly as did before with him still cursing against us "fucking racists" None of us said anything about his ethnicity but I'm betting some people here would say he was right Edited by - LCF on 6/13/2017 1:47:12 PM [Link]
Snowbunny Sorcerer Deactivated User She's hot but not my type of stroke game, I don't play sword fights with that which mirrors me. 146 Posts 5/17	Posted - Jun 14 2017 : 6:35AM ^Yawn.... [Link]
Snowbunny Sorcerer Deactivated User She's hot but not my type of stroke game, I don't play sword fights with that which mirrors me. 146 Posts 5/17	Posted - Jun 14 2017 : 6:50AM muggle wrote: Snoybanni surceror, who are you calling redneck? You think you're better than me? :D Come on dude, don't embarrass yourself, you clearly don't know anything about football. LCF was kind enough to explain what happened in details but you keep ignoring everything that doesn't suit you... According to you now I promote racism, slavery and apparently also rape... becouse I said Balotelli is a moron. Am I also homophobic? Please let me know. Totally different topic is the one mentioned by Katja: Racism in football is and will be an issue as long as racism per se exists in society. Click to expand What Balotelli did or didn't do on the the pitch (and off it) should have ZERO bearing on the reaction of an otherwise 'tolerant' and 'colorblind' white European fan as it pertains to Balo's racial background. But, unfortunately, they showed their contempt for his black skin (which he has no control over) very quickly, as do many towards those (Alves, Muntari, Boateng etc) who do nothing but play football the right way like the white players do. And you still haven't commented on why those black players showing good conduct, were racially abused? Why were they having banana's, bottles, coins etc thrown at them? Furthermore, if Balo is as you say, a "moron", then why would well meaning fans take note of his hue (and not his conduct) when chanting their outrage at his apparent poor actions? Why not chant "moron, moron, moron"? Huh? Again, if you spell my name wrong, is it appropriate to call you a racial slur, or do I simply correct you on it? Edited by - Snowbunny Sorcerer on 6/14/2017 7:01:09 AM [Link]
muggle Member 52 Posts 10/16	Posted - Jun 14 2017 : 11:43AM I'd move on but since you ask... Snowbunny Sorcerer wrote: And you still haven't commented on why those black players showing good conduct, were racially abused? Click to expand Becouse you've never talked about players showing good conduct but only Balotelli... Let's talk about Koulibaly then: a good player and a nice guy. One day a bunch of retarded people chanted racial slurs against him. Well, the next sunday all Napoli supporters in San Paolo showed a picture of him as a sign of solidarity stating "We are all Koulibaly". Quite a different outcome, don't you think? Why were they having banana's, bottles, coins etc thrown at them? Click to expand Stupidity, what else? You must know it's not only a race related problem. For example, when Barca fans felt betrayed by Figo, they offended him in every possible way, they threw at him bottles and the head of a dead pig! There are people who go to the stadium not becouse they love the beautiful game but only to relieve their everyday frustrations. They seek "social revenge" through their team's success, so they always look for a way to hurt the opponent: when it isn't the race, it's the sexual orientation, or the family members. And ofc violence. Why not chant "moron, moron, moron"? Huh? Click to expand That's the point: THEY ACTUALLY DID IT!!! But it was easier for him to call them racist instead of facing criticism. Again, if you spell my name wrong, is it appropriate to call you a racial slur, or do I simply correct you on it? Click to expand If it's a reference I don't get it. I thought you were merely insulting my intelligence so I joked about it. [Link]
Snowbunny Sorcerer Deactivated User She's hot but not my type of stroke game, I don't play sword fights with that which mirrors me. 146 Posts 5/17	Posted - Jun 14 2017 : 12:18PM muggle wrote: Why were they having banana's, bottles, coins etc thrown at them? Click to expand Stupidity, what else? You must know it's not only a race related problem. For example, when Barca fans felt betrayed by Figo, they offended him in every possible way, they threw at him bottles and the head of a dead pig! There are people who go to the stadium not becouse they love the beautiful game but only to relieve their everyday frustrations. They seek "social revenge" through their team's success, so they always look for a way to hurt the opponent: when it isn't the race, it's the sexual orientation, or the family members. And ofc violence. Click to expand They had the objects thrown at them because they were BLACK, nothing else. That's racism 1.0 (nothing covert about it) that's what this convo revolved around, NOT sexual orientation, or family members etc. It's never seizes to amaze me lengths people go to, to deny, dismiss and deflect from the system racism/white supremacy. Will full ignorance, benign neglect and plausible deniability in full use. [Link]
LCF All-Star Member Non Prevalebunt! 10364 Posts 1/05	Posted - Jun 14 2017 : 2:10PM Snowbunny Sorcerer wrote: muggle wrote: Snoybanni surceror, who are you calling redneck? You think you're better than me? :D Come on dude, don't embarrass yourself, you clearly don't know anything about football. LCF was kind enough to explain what happened in details but you keep ignoring everything that doesn't suit you... According to you now I promote racism, slavery and apparently also rape... becouse I said Balotelli is a moron. Am I also homophobic? Please let me know. Totally different topic is the one mentioned by Katja: Racism in football is and will be an issue as long as racism per se exists in society. Click to expand What Balotelli did or didn't do on the the pitch (and off it) should have ZERO bearing on the reaction of an otherwise 'tolerant' and 'colorblind' white European fan as it pertains to Balo's racial background. But, unfortunately, they showed their contempt for his black skin (which he has no control over) very quickly, as do many towards those (Alves, Muntari, Boateng etc) who do nothing but play football the right way like the white players do. And you still haven't commented on why those black players showing good conduct, were racially abused? Why were they having banana's, bottles, coins etc thrown at them? Furthermore, if Balo is as you say, a "moron", then why would well meaning fans take note of his hue (and not his conduct) when chanting their outrage at his apparent poor actions? Why not chant "moron, moron, moron"? Huh? Again, if you spell my name wrong, is it appropriate to call you a racial slur, or do I simply correct you on it? Edited by - Snowbunny Sorcerer on 6/14/2017 7:01:09 AM Click to expand What happened to Balotelli in San Siro had EVERYTHING to do with his behaviour Also you impèly that those bananas or bottles were thrown EXCLUSIVELY to black guys? As far as i know and sow they are common to everybody , of course if you pick up the minute were they do to a black guy in the 90 minutes of a match then you can fake it as a racial reaction also I repeat why a banana shown to a white is noyt a proble whereas the very same banana in the very same match shown by the very same supporter all of a sudden becomes a problem if the player passing by is black? Anyway there are a lot of white supremacists in the world and of course they go to stadiums , but to claim there is a racial problem in a place with 60.000 people and a couple dozen of those it's out of the world and really lacks perspective Muntari when at inter was criticezed because he spent more time fucking then anything else and yes it was because of his BBC very renown by many ladies back then Edited by - LCF on 6/14/2017 2:14:01 PM [Link]
Snowbunny Sorcerer Deactivated User She's hot but not my type of stroke game, I don't play sword fights with that which mirrors me. 146 Posts 5/17	Posted - Jun 14 2017 : 3:33PM LCF wrote: Snowbunny Sorcerer wrote: muggle wrote: Snoybanni surceror, who are you calling redneck? You think you're better than me? :D Come on dude, don't embarrass yourself, you clearly don't know anything about football. LCF was kind enough to explain what happened in details but you keep ignoring everything that doesn't suit you... According to you now I promote racism, slavery and apparently also rape... becouse I said Balotelli is a moron. Am I also homophobic? Please let me know. Totally different topic is the one mentioned by Katja: Racism in football is and will be an issue as long as racism per se exists in society. Click to expand What Balotelli did or didn't do on the the pitch (and off it) should have ZERO bearing on the reaction of an otherwise 'tolerant' and 'colorblind' white European fan as it pertains to Balo's racial background. But, unfortunately, they showed their contempt for his black skin (which he has no control over) very quickly, as do many towards those (Alves, Muntari, Boateng etc) who do nothing but play football the right way like the white players do. And you still haven't commented on why those black players showing good conduct, were racially abused? Why were they having banana's, bottles, coins etc thrown at them? Furthermore, if Balo is as you say, a "moron", then why would well meaning fans take note of his hue (and not his conduct) when chanting their outrage at his apparent poor actions? Why not chant "moron, moron, moron"? Huh? Again, if you spell my name wrong, is it appropriate to call you a racial slur, or do I simply correct you on it? Edited by - Snowbunny Sorcerer on 6/14/2017 7:01:09 AM Click to expand What happened to Balotelli in San Siro had EVERYTHING to do with his behaviour Also you impèly that those bananas or bottles were thrown EXCLUSIVELY to black guys? As far as i know and sow they are common to everybody , of course if you pick up the minute were they do to a black guy in the 90 minutes of a match then you can fake it as a racial reaction also I repeat why a banana shown to a white is noyt a proble whereas the very same banana in the very same match shown by the very same supporter all of a sudden becomes a problem if the player passing by is black? Anyway there are a lot of white supremacists in the world and of course they go to stadiums , but to claim there is a racial problem in a place with 60.000 people and a couple dozen of those it's out of the world and really lacks perspective Muntari when at inter was criticezed because he spent more time fucking then anything else and yes it was because of his BBC very renown by many ladies back then Edited by - LCF on 6/14/2017 2:14:01 PM Click to expand If it had everything to do with his BEHAVIOUR, then why the racial insults? huh? Did his race make him a lousy player? Last I checked, I can't find any info of banana's being throw at anyone but non-white players, I did a quick google search and the only one I find is of an incident in Australia involving an Aussie rules player, Eddie Betts, whose is of Aborigine decent. AGAIN, he could have fucked every women and man in the asshole at that very time, at that very point, one by one, in that very stadium he received racist abuse, what the fuck does that have to do with his skin color? But but YOU insert race into it by referencing his "BBC", you made it racial, just like those racist fans hurling abuse at him. I could pick it apart one by one, but what's the point when people seem to dig themselves a hole, for which they can't escape, a racist/white supremacist hole for that matter. [Link]
muggle Member 52 Posts 10/16	Posted - Jun 14 2017 : 3:36PM Ok, so apparently we are done being serious. Yeah!!! Down with the white supremacy! Black power... ranger! It's morphing time! :D [Link]

LCF All-Star Member Non Prevalebunt! 10364 Posts 1/05	Posted - Jun 14 2017 : 5:46PM Snowbunny Sorcerer wrote: I could pick it apart one by one, but what's the point when people seem to dig themselves a hole, for which they can't escape, a racist/white supremacist hole for that matter. Click to expand You're going bigger than the world itself throwing lots of BS at random I only talked about Balotelli and his situation and there was no banana involved and I find you talking about Australia? Did you miss the target Just a bit? And not only you are calling us racists but also white supremacist. let's sum up, we mentioned Balotelli and no one else , you mentioned Boateng in Germany , I repeated that Balotelli is a moron and has been treated as such and you went down to the southern emisphere Are you really accounting on me every fucking racist episode in the world? you lost focus man I don't know what's in your head but I'm not there [Link]
NomnoMnOm Member 379 Posts 5/15	Posted - Jun 14 2017 : 7:18PM Lol, those black soccer players get bananas thrown at them for the same reason they get the monkey noises hurled at them; it's the fans' way of calling them monkeys. Of course it's racially motivated. If you don't care that it's racially motivated, that's fine. But don't expect others to bury their heads in the sand to the painfully obvious. [Link]
NomnoMnOm Member 379 Posts 5/15	Posted - Jun 14 2017 : 7:18PM Edit: Double post deleted Edited by - NomnoMnOm on 6/14/2017 7:20:39 PM [Link]
whatsatelephonebill Senior Member 2935 Posts 10/11	Posted - Jun 14 2017 : 7:32PM Okay, let's see if we can get back on topic here. In the past year, we've had some pretty longstanding holdouts finally shoot their first IR scenes like Nicole Aniston and Jynx Maze (and possibly/arguably Jessica Drake). What I'm thinking to myself right now is who is the longest standing holdout that I actually think would/will do it before their career is over? [Link]
Eco195 Deactivated User 126 Posts 2/12	Posted - Jun 16 2017 : 8:18PM whatsatelephonebill wrote: Okay, let's see if we can get back on topic here. In the past year, we've had some pretty longstanding holdouts finally shoot their first IR scenes like Nicole Aniston and Jynx Maze (and possibly/arguably Jessica Drake). What I'm thinking to myself right now is who is the longest standing holdout that I actually think would/will do it before their career is over? Click to expand Possibly Rachel Starr. [Link]
chessmaster Member 768 Posts 6/12	Posted - Jun 17 2017 : 8:56PM ^possibly. Also Alexis Texas. She was in a rap video and listens to rap music. Also has that ass that brothers love. [Link]
whatsatelephonebill Senior Member 2935 Posts 10/11	Posted - Jun 17 2017 : 9:57PM I think Rachel still might, but someone's going to have to put a lot of money in front of her, and not because she doesn't want to do it, but because she's always known her worth and made sure she got paid when she could (I remember the rumors on what she got for shooting her first anal with Elegant being pretty large). Alexis, I'm not sure about, mainly since I'm not sure she leaves her deal with Elegant before she retires, and that deal gives her enough security that she doesn't do it unless she wants to, and I don't think she wants to. [Link]
NomnoMnOm Member 379 Posts 5/15	Posted - Jun 17 2017 : 10:44PM whatsatelephonebill wrote: Okay, let's see if we can get back on topic here. In the past year, we've had some pretty longstanding holdouts finally shoot their first IR scenes like Nicole Aniston and Jynx Maze (and possibly/arguably Jessica Drake). What I'm thinking to myself right now is who is the longest standing holdout that I actually think would/will do it before their career is over? Click to expand Mia Malkova has indicated that she plans to shoot for her website but not necessarily any time soon:[Tweet is no longer available] As far as Alexis Texas, depiction is the reason she gives for not shooting: [Tweet is no longer available] Now these aren't long standing holdouts, but 1. Blair Williams and Kissa Sins both indicated that they want to shoot for Blacked. 2. Gia Paige stated that she will shoot for her site, but not mainstream sites, because she doesn't like the big companies' advertising and marketing schemes involving IR. Samantha Rone would shoot, she said, if there was a site that didn't make race/color a big deal. She just wants it to be "a big cock not big black cock", per her words. Elena Koshka is a newer performer who said she will shoot, in time. [Link]
Dat_1_Dude Senior Member 1779 Posts 1/15	Posted - Jun 17 2017 : 11:53PM I've seen Rachel Starr in commercials that ended up on hip-hop sites. I think her price has always been too high, one reason or another, for anyone to budge But Texas has got some nerve, especially since she can direct her own films at Elegant. She's been in a few rap videos, misogynistic ones at that, and she used to have scenes placed in West Coast Productions movies.....so I am trying to figure out this whole "perception" angle she is trying [Link]
whatsatelephonebill Senior Member 2935 Posts 10/11	Posted - Jun 18 2017 : 12:00AM ^^ Let's break this down piece by piece. Yeah, I do believe Mia's going to do it at some point, but I don't think it'll be for her website. Given how long she's been in the industry and doesn't have her site set up yet (I'm sure she does have content squirreled away for it somewhere), I'm not sure she ever sets it up to the point where shooting that scene for it makes it worth it for her. As far as Alexis, I've gone over my issues with the depiction argument in this thread already, so I'm not going to over them again except to say that I don't believe her. Since Blair has shot for Lansky w/ Vixen, I do think she'll shoot for Blacked eventually. For Kissa, she's teased shooting with other performers besides Johnny for over a year at this point, and I'd have to actually see that happen before I believe that she's willing to shoot IR. I'm not sure whether Gia Paige goes back to shooting b/g at this point, since she kinda seems disillusioned with the industry at times. I say the same thing about Samantha Rone that I said about Alexis Texas. And Elena seems like the type that will end up shooting for Blacked, but I'm not sure she'll stick around for long enough to get there. Edit: You know what, just for fun, I'm going to go into the depiction/perception thing for a second. In a world where Janice Griffith shot her first IR for Jules with him honoring the agreement that he never actually refers to it as an IR scene (it's in a non-IR themed movie as the only IR scene in it [Slut Puppies 11], and there's no mention of black or IR anywhere on the DVD labeling or in the description or tags on the website), the idea that a performer (and especially one at Alexis' level) can't get major companies to shoot IR without emphasizing the racial aspect of it is, well, yeah. And that's ignoring that companies like Brazzers and Naughty America that shoot story based IR scenes without making them racial pretty often. Or, hell, that Blacked does occasionally drop the racial aspect in terms of scene dialogue and setup. Double edit: Though I will be fair to Alexis with the fact that that statement looks to be 6 years old, from a time when performers could actually get away with that excuse (and not because it was true, but because people didn't really look into it then). Edited by - whatsatelephonebill on 6/18/2017 12:10:43 AM [Link]
NomnoMnOm Member 379 Posts 5/15	Posted - Jun 18 2017 : 12:26AM whatsatelephonebill wrote: ^^ Let's break this down piece by piece. Yeah, I do believe Mia's going to do it at some point, but I don't think it'll be for her website. Given how long she's been in the industry and doesn't have her site set up yet (I'm sure she does have content squirreled away for it somewhere), I'm not sure she ever sets it up to the point where shooting that scene for it makes it worth it for her. As far as Alexis, I've gone over my issues with the depiction argument in this thread already, so I'm not going to over them again except to say that I don't believe her. Since Blair has shot for Lansky w/ Vixen, I do think she'll shoot for Blacked eventually. For Kissa, she's teased shooting with other performers besides Johnny for over a year at this point, and I'd have to actually see that happen before I believe that she's willing to shoot IR. I'm not sure whether Gia Paige goes back to shooting b/g at this point, since she kinda seems disillusioned with the industry at times. I say the same thing about Samantha Rone that I said about Alexis Texas. And Elena seems like the type that will end up shooting for Blacked, but I'm not sure she'll stick around for long enough to get there. Edit: You know what, just for fun, I'm going to go into the depiction/perception thing for a second. In a world where Janice Griffith shot her first IR for Jules with him honoring the agreement that he never actually refers to it as an IR scene (it's in a non-IR themed movie as the only IR scene in it [Slut Puppies 11], and there's no mention of black or IR anywhere on the DVD labeling or in the description or tags on the website), the idea that a performer (and especially one at Alexis' level) can't get major companies to shoot IR without emphasizing the racial aspect of it is, well, yeah. And that's ignoring that companies like Brazzers and Naughty America that shoot story based IR scenes without making them racial pretty often. Or, hell, that Blacked does occasionally drop the racial aspect in terms of scene dialogue and setup. Double edit: Though I will be fair to Alexis with the fact that that statement looks to be 6 years old, from a time when performers could actually get away with that excuse (and not because it was true, but because people didn't really look into it then). Edited by - whatsatelephonebill on 6/18/2017 12:10:43 AM Click to expand Gia Paige did say that she will shoot b/g scenes with black male talent for her site: [Tweet is no longer available] [Tweet is no longer available] And as far as perception/presentation/portrayal/depiction/advertisement/marketing/themes/etc. are concerned, let's say scenes with black male talent are treated like every other b/g scene: no extra promotion, no special awards, absolutely no mention of race, no special showcases centered around 'doing it' and standard b/g rates to 'shoot it'. What things would be said then, for those who don't work with black male talent? Or would not working with BMT not be a thing in the first place (to the extent it is now) under those conditions I mentioned? [Link]
whatsatelephonebill Senior Member 2935 Posts 10/11	Posted - Jun 18 2017 : 12:44AM ^ My point with Gia is that as of right now, I don't think she's shooting b/g at all, so I'm not sure that she won't quit/retire before she ever opens up a website to shoot IR for. [Link]
NomnoMnOm Member 379 Posts 5/15	Posted - Jun 18 2017 : 12:44AM ^^^More on perception: Yeah, you're right. Janice Griffith didn't want her scene to be tagged as "IR", nor did she want the race of her male co-star to be mentioned and Jules obliged. And like you said, networks like Brazzers and Naughty America treat their scenes with black male talent like any other b/g scene, for the most part. Frolicme's "Cum Together" scene is a perfect example of NO mention of race "IR" "BBC" or any other tags, IIRC. And there are plenty of studio/sites/companies whose production value is upscale with a high-end aesthetic. The the way it's shot position is becoming a strawman. Edited by - NomnoMnOm on 6/18/2017 12:46:14 AM [Link]
Snowbunny Sorcerer Deactivated User She's hot but not my type of stroke game, I don't play sword fights with that which mirrors me. 146 Posts 5/17	Posted - Jun 18 2017 : 2:42AM I always laugh at that excuse, these women are in porn, they get called a slut, a whore, a bitch, and practically get sexually abused (i.e. spat on, slapped, hair-pulled, shoved, pushed, manhandled) and raped/gang raped on set by white boys. But "no reference to IR please"....how bizarre. They get portrayed in vanilla porn in the worse way possible, but, but, "no mention of race, thank you". That's interesting. Someone has some 'splaining to do! [Link]
pat362 Senior Member 10083 Posts 3/10	Posted - Jun 18 2017 : 2:09PM ^I get the feeling that this is a subject that you are unable to be objective about and because of that there is no way to properly reply to any of your post because your mind is already made up. Your last post proves that you have a very skewed idea of what is vanilla porn. I can assure you that the word slut, whore and bitch are never used in vanilla porn. There is also no hair pulling, shoveling, slapping or general mistreatment of the performers in vanilla porn and it's for damn sure that there is no gangbangs. vanilla porn is normally a one-on-one scene where the producers tries to replicate a normal sexual encounter between two people. The penetration is normally vaginal but it can be argued that a soft anal penetration would still make the scene vanilla in nature. Ultimately a performer is damned if she does or doesn't do IR porn because if she doesn't do it then every person with an agenda will accuse her of being racist. If she does do it but waits a while or wants more money than she will again be called a racist. The only performer who seem to not get called racist are those that do interracial right from the start but then they get accused of being choosy because they will only work with a select group of performers. My philosophy is simple. I am thrilled when my favorite performers does something new or different but at no point do I expect that she owes me that new or different thing. I'm just patient and hopeful that she will and if she doesn't do it then the next ten girls who come after her will. [Link]
ocolot Member 71 Posts 6/15	Posted - Jun 18 2017 : 2:18PM i think Rachel Starr would be one of the biggest names to do her first IR, she has been rencently quite active shooting scenes. The main problem is her rate and that she want to have a lot of control in that scene. Maybe Blacked with that glam style would convice her because of the quality of the production. However all that people calling her racist dont help when she obviously is not racist. [Link]

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Post

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Posted - Jun 6 2017 : 5:58PM

KatjaKassin wrote:
I agree with Mr Marcus. it's too simplistic to say where I was born determined my attitudes. it is much deeper than that. My skin is still white and I do not have to face certain issues compared to people of color. I am also from a Western European country where I could easily come here on a visa compared to many other who do not have that privilege or whose ancestors were brought here against their will.
My attitudes about the US are formed by my experiences living here and me making the effort to explore them. I think you do not give me enough credit or do not appreciate the complexity of such topics as racism, discrimination or privilege enough when you refer to my place or birth or the way I came to be American to explain all of it.
Many European countries see a surge in populistic sentiments at the moment and it is not really true that Europeans are somehow less racist or more open.
Click to expand

I think he referred to racial slavery and segregation , it's a way of thinking almost unknown to us , even to those of us who experienced Fascism and Nazism and racial laws it's been for a short time , not centuries , it's not carved in our culture ,i didn't have the time to go under our skin so to speak (I'm a white French-Italian and I've been told stories about that from both sides of my heritage , but none of them was a direct victim of any racial discrimination whatsoever).

Edited by - LCF on 6/6/2017 6:02:07 PM

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Snowbunny Sorcerer
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Posted - Jun 7 2017 : 3:59PM

KatjaKassin wrote:
I agree with Mr Marcus. it's too simplistic to say where I was born determined my attitudes. it is much deeper than that. My skin is still white and I do not have to face certain issues compared to people of color. I am also from a Western European country where I could easily come here on a visa compared to many other who do not have that privilege or whose ancestors were brought here against their will.
My attitudes about the US are formed by my experiences living here and me making the effort to explore them. I think you do not give me enough credit or do not appreciate the complexity of such topics as racism, discrimination or privilege enough when you refer to my place or birth or the way I came to be American to explain all of it.
Many European countries see a surge in populistic sentiments at the moment and it is not really true that Europeans are somehow less racist or more open.
Click to expand

I most certainly do understand the complexities of racism/white supremacy. I was simply trying to point out the absurdity in the American form of racism which permeates the society a lot more than let's say Germany does. Many Europeans have been completely shocked when travelling to the states to find out how backwards Americans tend to be on racism. I'm not diminishing the problems that Europe faces, particularly Eastern Europe when it comes to the surge in white nationalism or the the racism shown towards black/African football players in Serie A and La Ligue such as Mario Balotelli or Neymar. The difference however, is that unlike the U.S., those countries don't boast about their superiority claiming amongst others things to a ''shining city on a hill'' and nonsense like that.

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muggle
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Posted - Jun 8 2017 : 12:34PM

If you want to call it "racism" I believe you are not 100% correct. Probably in Europe right now it's more accurate to talk about Xenophobia, which is more of a defensive attitude against a foreign danger. The racism is the result and the consequence of unresolved social issues due to governments ineptitude: imagine thousands of people without any sign of civilization - of course the educated elites don't migrate - come into your homeland and live as they want with the complacency of the authority, no respect at all for the written and unwritten laws of the community. Suddenly you feel helpless and you feel the hatred inside you growing out of frustration couse you are put in a situation you don't want to be (unless you are welthy enough to create social distance from all the troubles - champagne socialists for the win!). Naturally you address this hatred towards the ethnic group that you see invading your vital space. Thus obtaining racism that has nothing to do with race!
LCF, you got the point: we should be able, as in the roman times, to share the same Civitas, to recognize the same values as fundamental. Civis romanus sum means exactly that: I belong to a cultural world defined by our mos maiorum and humanitas, I recognize them in you and you in me. That's the way to obliterate the racism issue. That's why I can't understand the racism issue in America: black or white, these days you speak the same language and have the same education. There isn't the cultural clash that I believe is crucial in europe. In the words of A. Merkel: multiculturalism has failed!
About Balotelli... (who's not playing in Serie A anymore btw) The problem with him is not the fact he is black, but that he is a complete idiot! Irritating and overrated player. Has no respect for his teammates, his fans or his coach. On the other hand I don't think any Milan supporter has ever insulted legends like Gullit, Rijkaard, Weah, Seedorf, Cafu, Ronaldinho etc. who are gentlemen and true masters of the game.

To be honest Germany and eastern europe had a history of centuries of antisemitism due to the reclusive nature of Ashkenazim. But Italy had actually never known it until 1938 and if you read/saw The Finzi Contini Garden, you know it came out of nowhere. Suffice to say that jewish people were listed in the fascist party until then (you had to if you wanted to work)! H. Arendt wrote that until the nazi occupation in 1943 not one jew were executed in italy but worst case scenario only imprisoned.

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Posted - Jun 8 2017 : 4:06PM

^
I was talking about that said American general attitude toward blacks rather than racism by itself , though there are similitudes, the Jewish were enclosed into ghettos (a word originated in Venice if I'm not mistaken) but then, the jewish weren't recognized at sight and weren't physically that much different from their neighbors , there was a reason for having them foorced to wear a sign , to make them pointable
Edited by - LCF on 6/8/2017 4:07:39 PM

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muggle
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Posted - Jun 9 2017 : 4:27AM

Yes, you are right! The etymology is disputed but "Ghetto" likely comes from the venetian word "gheto": it means "throw" becouse originally it was a public foundry. But the venetian historical ghetto had a different meaning and purpose: to protect jewish people more than to persecute them. It was not much different from other places of the city like "Fondaco dei Turchi" or "Fondaco dei Tedeschi" where turkish (islamic) or german (protestant) people lived togheter. Even if they had restrictions the purpose was to trade peacefully, not to vex anybody. Maybe today it seems still a harsh treatment, but consider this had happened centuries before the americans started the slave trade... Btw Venice abolished the slave trade in 960!!!

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Snowbunny Sorcerer
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Posted - Jun 9 2017 : 7:28AM

muggle wrote:

I've seen that justification before, and quiet frankly, I don't buy it. It's racism, end of story!
Edited by - Snowbunny Sorcerer on 6/9/2017 7:29:40 AM

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Dread
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Posted - Jun 9 2017 : 4:21PM

About Balo. BULL FUCKING SHIT. Nice went to Bastia this past season and he was getting all types of racist shit thrown at him. He may be a knucklehead at times (Edit: And nowhere near the problem child but out.) but don't sit here and act like Europe is all cool when it comes to black athletes.
----Dread's Twitter----
Edited by - dread on 6/9/2017 4:22:40 PM

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muggle
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Posted - Jun 10 2017 : 10:09AM

Quiet frankly I've seen him using racism as justification for things like this.
Which is, to use the words of a wise man:

Dread, I was thinking about his Inter and Milan period but your example is interesting so let's think about it!
Why Bastia hooligans insulted him and not Cyprien, Plea or all the other black players in Nice?
Or even worse: what if they did, but nobody talks about them simply becouse they don't have the same appeal?
Is still racism the issue, or the mediatic persona whose narrative is built around it?
Honestly, I suggest to let him be and move on...

How can I speak for Europe?

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Posted - Jun 10 2017 : 12:19PM

Let's put some perspective over that , it was the clash against Barcelona , Inter the team Balotelli was playing for was winning 3-1 in the Home match and could not afford to take another score because there was the away match yet to play. Barcelona back then was coached by Guardiola and was arguably considered the strongest soccer team in the world . Inter players gave it all, one of them ,Pandev, had to be substituted beause he was almost injuring his muscles trying to keep up with Barcelona players, but all of Inter was extremely tired because in order to keep and push Barcelona back they played with three attackers and only three midfielders one of which (Sneijder) was keen to attack himself , this forced everybody to run a lot more than the usual to cover as much terrain as possible to defend over Barcelona's counterattacks.
Balotelli came in to substitute Pandev and was instructed to help his teammates , he has the strenght of a bull , runs fast and was very fresh , he's also tall and very effective with head hits, but then he placed himself close to midlane insted of help defending and covering and just waited for the ball giving no help to the team and forcing his exausted teammates to run for him too as if they didn't have their hand full already and also putting in serious danger the match having forced his team to play lacking a man on the defensive line especially someone like him.
The public was disappointed and as Barcelona pressured Inter inside their defensive area with still ten minute to play ,at this point reacted badly and begun to wistle against him. At the end of the game , Balotelli removed his jersey and very clearly throwed it on the ground in front of 0ver 60.000 disapponted supporters enraging them, from then on he got refused and and insulted by Inter's supporters.
You have to know that in such very team was an African player it was Samuel Eto'o an attacker who didn't bother to run all the way to defensive line when need and went in the back lanes to defend and to do what Balotelli should have done.
Not only no Inter supporter ever wistled at him but he's still considered one of the best players ever seen with their Jersey , he's granted extreme respect and esteem still today.
Balotelli was a piece and was treated accordingly , in some cases might have been racial but in most cases it was just him as a person who happened to be black
Coach Mourinho said : If a player can't find himself motivated against Barcelona then when? So he removed Balotelli from the team from then to the end of the championship and Inter wanted him away at the end of the season

Edited by - LCF on 6/10/2017 1:18:38 PM

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killbillvol69

All-Star Member

^Lucy Pinder
18634 Posts
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Posted - Jun 10 2017 : 12:25PM

^ You're still missing the point. Had it been a white player they were angry with, they would have yelled insults about him, not about his race. But he was a black player, and so many people yelled insults about his race, not just about him individually.
That's the point. It's not that he was hated, or even why he was hated. It's what they did once they hated him.
(When I say "they", I'm referring to fans who yelled racist things. Not all fans.)

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LCF

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Posted - Jun 10 2017 : 12:34PM

^
I don't remember anybody doing that in the match I'm talking about especially because Eto'o was in there doing a lot more than his due and he was black too and very sensitive to the matter if he heard something like that he would have left the field in no time.
He did so at least once in his career
Also it was the very first time that Inter supporters ever contested him , he's been with Inter since he was a kid , all of his career had been within Inter up to that point.
To throw away the jersey is the ultimate gesture of despise toward it and all that it represents and no supporter would condone it less of all soccer supporters
Furthermore he said that the full behaviour of the supporters was racist , he meant the whole contestation over him , as of today in interviews he still doesn't get why they contested him in that match , still say they were just racist and were contesting him because he was black
BTW even though they had to remove Balotelli from the team Inter that year won everything they could :Serie A National Championship, National Cup and UEFA Champions League
I have to add that I dont excuse in any way those few who might have said racist or skin related things against him , but the vast majority was really pissed with him personally
Edited by - LCF on 6/10/2017 1:16:48 PM

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JackSparrow
Deactivated User

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Posted - Jun 10 2017 : 1:04PM

please not forget that Balotelli himself is not the brightest candle on the cake.his behaviour plays a lot into the heat he gets and mostly not because he is a black dude ,he is an rich arrogant prick ,he got kicked by Inter and Liverpool and from the national squad aswell and sure not because he is an easy and nice person.

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Snowbunny Sorcerer
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She's hot but not my type of stroke game, I don't play sword fights with that which mirrors me.
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Posted - Jun 11 2017 : 10:00AM

LCF wrote:

Really?

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Snowbunny Sorcerer
Deactivated User

She's hot but not my type of stroke game, I don't play sword fights with that which mirrors me.
146 Posts
5/17

Posted - Jun 11 2017 : 10:07AM

Wow at "JackSparrow", "LCF" and "Muggle", you guys are really trying excuse racism. You guys sound JUST like a white racist redneck you saw no problem with slavery/Jim crow/segregation. This is victim blaming just like women who get raped, "well maybe if she didn't wear that skimpy skirt".
Hey guys, if you spell my name wrong is it ok if I call you a white b*****d?
Edited by - Snowbunny Sorcerer on 6/11/2017 10:10:39 AM

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killbillvol69

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^Lucy Pinder
18634 Posts
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Posted - Jun 11 2017 : 10:15AM

OK let's calm down in here. Please remember this part from the ADT forum etiquette - "Adult DVD Talk is a Friendly Community. Treat fellow posters as neighbors. Please be respectful of each other and each other's threads. If what someone has posted angers you, wait until you calm down before you respond or simply don't respond."

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LCF

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Posted - Jun 11 2017 : 1:02PM

Not at all but apparently to some people every time a black guy is involved into anything he just has to claim racism and he suddenly becomes the victim even though apparently it's just him being the ultimate asshole
Nobody is dening that say a hundred among the 60.000 in the San Siro stadium did say something racist but this is in the realm of possibilities because we can't hear nothing of that sort , and this would be inexcusable but the way some put it here looked like everybody was being racist toward Balotelli which really was not the case , I don't know about Bastia and Nice I say nothing about that , but for Inter Barcelona I can for sure, he managed to really piss off even his best friend in the team , Materazzi who literally lifted and slammed him against a wall when the match ended.
As for Jim Crow I lack knowledge who was it?
Also sgregation is nothing we ever experienced in Europe, we never allowed such thing how can you even think we would condone that?
Last but not least we had marches against segregation in South Africa with dozens or even hundreds of thousand people marching in there
You really are going way out of line here especially because it would seem either you don't know anything about Balotelli or you are willingly ignoring the hundreds episodes of extreme arrogance he's done , such as parking his car wherever he pleaseseven obstructing the road or going in the forbidden direction and when the police came just say . what the fuck you want dude? Unlike you I can pay dozens of fines , just fine me eandgo fuck yourself , and return to starve at home

Edited by - LCF on 6/11/2017 4:58:47 PM

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Dat_1_Dude
Senior Member

1779 Posts
1/15

Posted - Jun 11 2017 : 3:51PM

^^^ Snowbunny, a lot of people are foreign and will not understand many American historical references. You have to be more explicit when explaining the era in America where "separate but equal" and reasonable doubt because of pigmentation existed and were legally exercised without repercussion

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LCF

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Posted - Jun 11 2017 : 5:08PM

^
Also that all of us Europeans consider ourselves a cultural product of French Revolution , to segregate a population is unthinkable here , even now even with terrorism and with lots of political party claiming for more strict laws toward the Arabians an Muslim , still the vas majority of the Europeans do not allow such thing , whe the police encamped some refugees and maintained the too long there was a vast reaction from the voters to the point to force the goverment to outlaw them as they were and grant rights and limiting the time of permanence to those in there
Before anybody mentions the nazis there was a war against them it's not that they could go away with their crimes freely
Edited by - LCF on 6/11/2017 5:11:33 PM

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KatjaKassin
Senior Member

1257 Posts
5/03

Posted - Jun 11 2017 : 8:33PM

a while back there was a racism debate involving German black soccer player Boateng. Don't think this does not exist in Europe because it sure as hell does
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/may/29/german-far-right-party-row-jerome-boateng-neighbour-comments

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Dread
Senior Member

Latex and boobs
5085 Posts
3/07

Posted - Jun 11 2017 : 11:32PM

There's been multiple times where black/african players have had things like bananas thrown at them during matches. I remember reading about some early on in the European seasons. Also, Balo was on his best behavior at Nice and was still subject to racial shit from fans.
Edit: I remember that story about Boateng. Fucking sad. He's an important part of Bayern too and hasn't had any issues that i've read about.
----Dread's Twitter----
Edited by - dread on 6/11/2017 11:33:41 PM

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muggle
Member

52 Posts
10/16

Posted - Jun 12 2017 : 7:03AM

Snoybanni surceror, who are you calling redneck?
You think you're better than me?
:D
Come on dude, don't embarrass yourself, you clearly don't know anything about football.
LCF was kind enough to explain what happened in details but you keep ignoring everything that doesn't suit you...
According to you now I promote racism, slavery and apparently also rape... becouse I said Balotelli is a moron.
Am I also homophobic? Please let me know.
Totally different topic is the one mentioned by Katja:
Racism in football is and will be an issue as long as racism per se exists in society.

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LCF

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Posted - Jun 12 2017 : 3:47PM

I never said this doesn't exist I was merely stating that when it comes to Balotelli his skin isn't the main issue , there was another player who got similar attention from the opposite supporters it was Zlatan Ibrahimovic , especially in Rome the reason was his attitude on the field and the fact that he was kinda blunt in interviews , Coach Mourinho was in the same wagon too.
But there was no fuss about them beong mocked and basically insulted .
I don't think an American could really grasp the difference between Rooters attacks and actual insults from the supporters who do cheer their team but also attack the others who obviously retaliate the same way .
Do I really have to mention Eric Cantona? the most "hated" player from all adversaries of his team and yet all of them would have liked a Cantona in their team too
Also about bananas , they are very common , it's a phallic symbol especially in Italy to show a banana just means "we got your asses" or you're losing or you lost, or you will lose .
Why are you si happy? you're going to lose
it's shown to every player of the opposite team , of course if you look at it with a made up meaning or some TV shows them put in front of a black player and implying something different well...
.
I'm talking about enflatable bananas I'm not aware of any true banana thrown to anybody , I also don't know shit abot what happened in Nice with Balotelli , I only intervened about him in Italy when he was playing with Inter and of course when he went to play with Milan (again nothing to do with race , Inter and Milan are Archirivals , he was seen as a traitor especially after what he did with Barcelona
Edited by - LCF on 6/12/2017 3:55:54 PM

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LCF

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Posted - Jun 12 2017 : 4:08PM

I mentioned Ibrahimovic and I just remember that , yes he's white and was racially insulted more than once he's a Swedish with Slavic descent so he was insulted as a "gipsy" and no, there was no fuss about that

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LCF

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Posted - Jun 12 2017 : 4:28PM

Anyway we're WAAY off topic ....

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Rosco Fuji
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On the licking stick, Mr. Magic Dick!
3309 Posts
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Posted - Jun 12 2017 : 9:17PM

Jumping ahead

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Snowbunny Sorcerer
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Posted - Jun 13 2017 : 10:06AM

LCF, put the shovel down man.
Edited by - Snowbunny Sorcerer on 6/13/2017 10:10:14 AM

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LCF

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Posted - Jun 13 2017 : 1:39PM

As a complete coincidence almost a Murphy's Law today did happen something weird.
I was at the city hall because I needed a certificate I had to send abroad , I had to line up to get the proper form and to pay for the service , there were two counters but only one line , as any of the counters went free the line advanced , it wasn't long just 6 people , at one point a black guy arrived and went all the way to one counter lining up himself behind the one in there as he was the second in line instead of the seventh one.the closest of us told him the line was longer and that he had to line up behind the last one not the first one. He then said :Shut your mouth white racist ! And refused to move from there , then another one explained him the situation , wouldn't you find weird that all of us are lining up leaving a counter free?
"You are all trying to abuse a black man and force me to go back to you whites
That time has ended I won't move from here , it's my turn and I intend to have it respected."
Then everybody begun to yell at him , go back that's not your turn.
Seconds later the police arrived (it was the city hall after all) but the dude continued to yel against us , against racism and even demanded to take us away and then the police asked US to step back to avoid any turmoil (needless to say another black guy arrived to help him even though he knew nothing) but in reality he wanted to avoid troubles but then one of those in line was an attorney who just said he was and asked the police their names and other significant data , informing them that they were helping the actual disturber and having him wasting valuable time .
It was at this point that the police finally forced him to his place in line , the line went smoothly as did before with him still cursing against us "fucking racists"
None of us said anything about his ethnicity but I'm betting some people here would say he was right

Edited by - LCF on 6/13/2017 1:47:12 PM

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Snowbunny Sorcerer
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Posted - Jun 14 2017 : 6:35AM

^Yawn....

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Snowbunny Sorcerer
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Posted - Jun 14 2017 : 6:50AM

What Balotelli did or didn't do on the the pitch (and off it) should have ZERO bearing on the reaction of an otherwise 'tolerant' and 'colorblind' white European fan as it pertains to Balo's racial background. But, unfortunately, they showed their contempt for his black skin (which he has no control over) very quickly, as do many towards those (Alves,
Muntari, Boateng etc) who do nothing but play football the right way like the white players do. And you still haven't commented on why those black players showing good conduct, were racially abused? Why were they having banana's, bottles, coins etc thrown at them?
Furthermore, if Balo is as you say, a "moron", then why would well meaning fans take note of his hue (and not his conduct) when chanting their outrage at his apparent poor actions? Why not chant "moron, moron, moron"? Huh?
Again, if you spell my name wrong, is it appropriate to call you a racial slur, or do I simply correct you on it?

Edited by - Snowbunny Sorcerer on 6/14/2017 7:01:09 AM

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muggle
Member

52 Posts
10/16

Posted - Jun 14 2017 : 11:43AM

I'd move on but since you ask...

Becouse you've never talked about players showing good conduct but only Balotelli...
Let's talk about Koulibaly then: a good player and a nice guy. One day a bunch of retarded people chanted racial slurs against him. Well, the next sunday all Napoli supporters in San Paolo showed a picture of him as a sign of solidarity stating "We are all Koulibaly". Quite a different outcome, don't you think?

Stupidity, what else? You must know it's not only a race related problem. For example, when Barca fans felt betrayed by Figo, they offended him in every possible way, they threw at him bottles and the head of a dead pig! There are people who go to the stadium not becouse they love the beautiful game but only to relieve their everyday frustrations. They seek "social revenge" through their team's success, so they always look for a way to hurt the opponent: when it isn't the race, it's the sexual orientation, or the family members. And ofc violence.

That's the point: THEY ACTUALLY DID IT!!! But it was easier for him to call them racist instead of facing criticism.

If it's a reference I don't get it. I thought you were merely insulting my intelligence so I joked about it.

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Snowbunny Sorcerer
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5/17

Posted - Jun 14 2017 : 12:18PM

muggle wrote:

Click to expand

They had the objects thrown at them because they were BLACK, nothing else. That's racism 1.0 (nothing covert about it) that's what this convo revolved around, NOT sexual orientation, or family members etc. It's never seizes to amaze me lengths people go to, to deny, dismiss and deflect from the system racism/white supremacy. Will full ignorance, benign neglect and plausible deniability in full use.

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LCF

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Posted - Jun 14 2017 : 2:10PM

Snowbunny Sorcerer wrote:
muggle wrote:
Snoybanni surceror, who are you calling redneck?
You think you're better than me?
:D
Come on dude, don't embarrass yourself, you clearly don't know anything about football.
LCF was kind enough to explain what happened in details but you keep ignoring everything that doesn't suit you...
According to you now I promote racism, slavery and apparently also rape... becouse I said Balotelli is a moron.
Am I also homophobic? Please let me know.
Totally different topic is the one mentioned by Katja:
Racism in football is and will be an issue as long as racism per se exists in society.
Click to expand
What Balotelli did or didn't do on the the pitch (and off it) should have ZERO bearing on the reaction of an otherwise 'tolerant' and 'colorblind' white European fan as it pertains to Balo's racial background. But, unfortunately, they showed their contempt for his black skin (which he has no control over) very quickly, as do many towards those (Alves,
Muntari, Boateng etc) who do nothing but play football the right way like the white players do. And you still haven't commented on why those black players showing good conduct, were racially abused? Why were they having banana's, bottles, coins etc thrown at them?
Furthermore, if Balo is as you say, a "moron", then why would well meaning fans take note of his hue (and not his conduct) when chanting their outrage at his apparent poor actions? Why not chant "moron, moron, moron"? Huh?
Again, if you spell my name wrong, is it appropriate to call you a racial slur, or do I simply correct you on it?
Edited by - Snowbunny Sorcerer on 6/14/2017 7:01:09 AM
Click to expand

What happened to Balotelli in San Siro had EVERYTHING to do with his behaviour
Also you impèly that those bananas or bottles were thrown EXCLUSIVELY to black guys? As far as i know and sow they are common to everybody , of course if you pick up the minute were they do to a black guy in the 90 minutes of a match then you can fake it as a racial reaction
also I repeat why a banana shown to a white is noyt a proble whereas the very same banana in the very same match shown by the very same supporter all of a sudden becomes a problem if the player passing by is black?
Anyway there are a lot of white supremacists in the world and of course they go to stadiums , but to claim there is a racial problem in a place with 60.000 people and a couple dozen of those it's out of the world and really lacks perspective
Muntari when at inter was criticezed because he spent more time fucking then anything else and yes it was because of his BBC very renown by many ladies back then
Edited by - LCF on 6/14/2017 2:14:01 PM

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Snowbunny Sorcerer
Deactivated User

She's hot but not my type of stroke game, I don't play sword fights with that which mirrors me.
146 Posts
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Posted - Jun 14 2017 : 3:33PM

LCF wrote:
Snowbunny Sorcerer wrote:
muggle wrote:
Snoybanni surceror, who are you calling redneck?
You think you're better than me?
:D
Come on dude, don't embarrass yourself, you clearly don't know anything about football.
LCF was kind enough to explain what happened in details but you keep ignoring everything that doesn't suit you...
According to you now I promote racism, slavery and apparently also rape... becouse I said Balotelli is a moron.
Am I also homophobic? Please let me know.
Totally different topic is the one mentioned by Katja:
Racism in football is and will be an issue as long as racism per se exists in society.
Click to expand
What Balotelli did or didn't do on the the pitch (and off it) should have ZERO bearing on the reaction of an otherwise 'tolerant' and 'colorblind' white European fan as it pertains to Balo's racial background. But, unfortunately, they showed their contempt for his black skin (which he has no control over) very quickly, as do many towards those (Alves,
Muntari, Boateng etc) who do nothing but play football the right way like the white players do. And you still haven't commented on why those black players showing good conduct, were racially abused? Why were they having banana's, bottles, coins etc thrown at them?
Furthermore, if Balo is as you say, a "moron", then why would well meaning fans take note of his hue (and not his conduct) when chanting their outrage at his apparent poor actions? Why not chant "moron, moron, moron"? Huh?
Again, if you spell my name wrong, is it appropriate to call you a racial slur, or do I simply correct you on it?
Edited by - Snowbunny Sorcerer on 6/14/2017 7:01:09 AM
Click to expand
What happened to Balotelli in San Siro had EVERYTHING to do with his behaviour
Also you impèly that those bananas or bottles were thrown EXCLUSIVELY to black guys? As far as i know and sow they are common to everybody , of course if you pick up the minute were they do to a black guy in the 90 minutes of a match then you can fake it as a racial reaction
also I repeat why a banana shown to a white is noyt a proble whereas the very same banana in the very same match shown by the very same supporter all of a sudden becomes a problem if the player passing by is black?
Anyway there are a lot of white supremacists in the world and of course they go to stadiums , but to claim there is a racial problem in a place with 60.000 people and a couple dozen of those it's out of the world and really lacks perspective
Muntari when at inter was criticezed because he spent more time fucking then anything else and yes it was because of his BBC very renown by many ladies back then
Edited by - LCF on 6/14/2017 2:14:01 PM
Click to expand

If it had everything to do with his BEHAVIOUR, then why the racial insults? huh? Did his race make him a lousy player?
Last I checked, I can't find any info of banana's being throw at anyone but non-white players, I did a quick google search and the only one I find is of an incident in Australia involving an Aussie rules player, Eddie Betts, whose is of Aborigine decent.
AGAIN, he could have fucked every women and man in the asshole at that very time, at that very point, one by one, in that very stadium he received racist abuse, what the fuck does that have to do with his skin color? But but YOU insert race into it by referencing his "BBC", you made it racial, just like those racist fans hurling abuse at him.
I could pick it apart one by one, but what's the point when people seem to dig themselves a hole, for which they can't escape, a racist/white supremacist hole for that matter.

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muggle
Member

52 Posts
10/16

Posted - Jun 14 2017 : 3:36PM

Ok, so apparently we are done being serious.
Yeah!!! Down with the white supremacy! Black power... ranger! It's morphing time! :D

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LCF

All-Star Member

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10364 Posts
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Posted - Jun 14 2017 : 5:46PM

You're going bigger than the world itself throwing lots of BS at random
I only talked about Balotelli and his situation and there was no banana involved and I find you talking about Australia?
Did you miss the target Just a bit?
And not only you are calling us racists but also white supremacist.
let's sum up, we mentioned Balotelli and no one else , you mentioned Boateng in Germany , I repeated that Balotelli is a moron and has been treated as such and you went down to the southern emisphere
Are you really accounting on me every fucking racist episode in the world?
you lost focus man I don't know what's in your head but I'm not there

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NomnoMnOm
Member

379 Posts
5/15

Posted - Jun 14 2017 : 7:18PM

Lol, those black soccer players get bananas thrown at them for the same reason they get the monkey noises hurled at them; it's the fans' way of calling them monkeys.
Of course it's racially motivated. If you don't care that it's racially motivated, that's fine. But don't expect others to bury their heads in the sand to the painfully obvious.

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NomnoMnOm
Member

379 Posts
5/15

Posted - Jun 14 2017 : 7:18PM

Edit: Double post deleted
Edited by - NomnoMnOm on 6/14/2017 7:20:39 PM

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whatsatelephonebill
Senior Member

2935 Posts
10/11

Posted - Jun 14 2017 : 7:32PM

Okay, let's see if we can get back on topic here.
In the past year, we've had some pretty longstanding holdouts finally shoot their first IR scenes like Nicole Aniston and Jynx Maze (and possibly/arguably Jessica Drake). What I'm thinking to myself right now is who is the longest standing holdout that I actually think would/will do it before their career is over?

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Eco195
Deactivated User

126 Posts
2/12

Posted - Jun 16 2017 : 8:18PM

Possibly Rachel Starr.

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chessmaster
Member

768 Posts
6/12

Posted - Jun 17 2017 : 8:56PM

^possibly. Also Alexis Texas. She was in a rap video and listens to rap music. Also has that ass that brothers love.

[Link]

whatsatelephonebill
Senior Member

2935 Posts
10/11

Posted - Jun 17 2017 : 9:57PM

I think Rachel still might, but someone's going to have to put a lot of money in front of her, and not because she doesn't want to do it, but because she's always known her worth and made sure she got paid when she could (I remember the rumors on what she got for shooting her first anal with Elegant being pretty large). Alexis, I'm not sure about, mainly since I'm not sure she leaves her deal with Elegant before she retires, and that deal gives her enough security that she doesn't do it unless she wants to, and I don't think she wants to.

[Link]

NomnoMnOm
Member

379 Posts
5/15

Posted - Jun 17 2017 : 10:44PM

Mia Malkova has indicated that she plans to shoot for her website but not necessarily any time soon:[Tweet is no longer available]
As far as Alexis Texas, depiction is the reason she gives for not shooting:
[Tweet is no longer available]
Now these aren't long standing holdouts, but 1. Blair Williams and Kissa Sins both indicated that they want to shoot for Blacked. 2. Gia Paige stated that she will shoot for her site, but not mainstream sites, because she doesn't like the big companies' advertising and marketing schemes involving IR. Samantha Rone would shoot, she said, if there was a site that didn't make race/color a big deal. She just wants it to be "a big cock not big black cock", per her words. Elena Koshka is a newer performer who said she will shoot, in time.

[Link]

Dat_1_Dude
Senior Member

1779 Posts
1/15

Posted - Jun 17 2017 : 11:53PM

I've seen Rachel Starr in commercials that ended up on hip-hop sites. I think her price has always been too high, one reason or another, for anyone to budge
But Texas has got some nerve, especially since she can direct her own films at Elegant. She's been in a few rap videos, misogynistic ones at that, and she used to have scenes placed in West Coast Productions movies.....so I am trying to figure out this whole "perception" angle she is trying

[Link]

whatsatelephonebill
Senior Member

2935 Posts
10/11

Posted - Jun 18 2017 : 12:00AM

^^
Let's break this down piece by piece.
Yeah, I do believe Mia's going to do it at some point, but I don't think it'll be for her website. Given how long she's been in the industry and doesn't have her site set up yet (I'm sure she does have content squirreled away for it somewhere), I'm not sure she ever sets it up to the point where shooting that scene for it makes it worth it for her.
As far as Alexis, I've gone over my issues with the depiction argument in this thread already, so I'm not going to over them again except to say that I don't believe her.
Since Blair has shot for Lansky w/ Vixen, I do think she'll shoot for Blacked eventually. For Kissa, she's teased shooting with other performers besides Johnny for over a year at this point, and I'd have to actually see that happen before I believe that she's willing to shoot IR. I'm not sure whether Gia Paige goes back to shooting b/g at this point, since she kinda seems disillusioned with the industry at times. I say the same thing about Samantha Rone that I said about Alexis Texas. And Elena seems like the type that will end up shooting for Blacked, but I'm not sure she'll stick around for long enough to get there.
Edit: You know what, just for fun, I'm going to go into the depiction/perception thing for a second. In a world where Janice Griffith shot her first IR for Jules with him honoring the agreement that he never actually refers to it as an IR scene (it's in a non-IR themed movie as the only IR scene in it [Slut Puppies 11], and there's no mention of black or IR anywhere on the DVD labeling or in the description or tags on the website), the idea that a performer (and especially one at Alexis' level) can't get major companies to shoot IR without emphasizing the racial aspect of it is, well, yeah. And that's ignoring that companies like Brazzers and Naughty America that shoot story based IR scenes without making them racial pretty often. Or, hell, that Blacked does occasionally drop the racial aspect in terms of scene dialogue and setup.
Double edit: Though I will be fair to Alexis with the fact that that statement looks to be 6 years old, from a time when performers could actually get away with that excuse (and not because it was true, but because people didn't really look into it then).
Edited by - whatsatelephonebill on 6/18/2017 12:10:43 AM

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NomnoMnOm
Member

379 Posts
5/15

Posted - Jun 18 2017 : 12:26AM

whatsatelephonebill wrote:
^^
Let's break this down piece by piece.
Yeah, I do believe Mia's going to do it at some point, but I don't think it'll be for her website. Given how long she's been in the industry and doesn't have her site set up yet (I'm sure she does have content squirreled away for it somewhere), I'm not sure she ever sets it up to the point where shooting that scene for it makes it worth it for her.
As far as Alexis, I've gone over my issues with the depiction argument in this thread already, so I'm not going to over them again except to say that I don't believe her.
Since Blair has shot for Lansky w/ Vixen, I do think she'll shoot for Blacked eventually. For Kissa, she's teased shooting with other performers besides Johnny for over a year at this point, and I'd have to actually see that happen before I believe that she's willing to shoot IR. I'm not sure whether Gia Paige goes back to shooting b/g at this point, since she kinda seems disillusioned with the industry at times. I say the same thing about Samantha Rone that I said about Alexis Texas. And Elena seems like the type that will end up shooting for Blacked, but I'm not sure she'll stick around for long enough to get there.
Edit: You know what, just for fun, I'm going to go into the depiction/perception thing for a second. In a world where Janice Griffith shot her first IR for Jules with him honoring the agreement that he never actually refers to it as an IR scene (it's in a non-IR themed movie as the only IR scene in it [Slut Puppies 11], and there's no mention of black or IR anywhere on the DVD labeling or in the description or tags on the website), the idea that a performer (and especially one at Alexis' level) can't get major companies to shoot IR without emphasizing the racial aspect of it is, well, yeah. And that's ignoring that companies like Brazzers and Naughty America that shoot story based IR scenes without making them racial pretty often. Or, hell, that Blacked does occasionally drop the racial aspect in terms of scene dialogue and setup.
Double edit: Though I will be fair to Alexis with the fact that that statement looks to be 6 years old, from a time when performers could actually get away with that excuse (and not because it was true, but because people didn't really look into it then).
Edited by - whatsatelephonebill on 6/18/2017 12:10:43 AM
Click to expand

Gia Paige did say that she will shoot b/g scenes with black male talent for her site:
[Tweet is no longer available]
[Tweet is no longer available]
And as far as perception/presentation/portrayal/depiction/advertisement/marketing/themes/etc. are concerned, let's say scenes with black male talent are treated like every other b/g scene: no extra promotion, no special awards, absolutely no mention of race, no special showcases centered around 'doing it' and standard b/g rates to 'shoot it'. What things would be said then, for those who don't work with black male talent? Or would not working with BMT not be a thing in the first place (to the extent it is now) under those conditions I mentioned?

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whatsatelephonebill
Senior Member

2935 Posts
10/11

Posted - Jun 18 2017 : 12:44AM

^
My point with Gia is that as of right now, I don't think she's shooting b/g at all, so I'm not sure that she won't quit/retire before she ever opens up a website to shoot IR for.

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NomnoMnOm
Member

379 Posts
5/15

Posted - Jun 18 2017 : 12:44AM

^^^More on perception: Yeah, you're right. Janice Griffith didn't want her scene to be tagged as "IR", nor did she want the race of her male co-star to be mentioned and Jules obliged. And like you said, networks like Brazzers and Naughty America treat their scenes with black male talent like any other b/g scene, for the most part. Frolicme's "Cum Together" scene is a perfect example of NO mention of race "IR" "BBC" or any other tags, IIRC. And there are plenty of studio/sites/companies whose production value is upscale with a high-end aesthetic.
The the way it's shot position is becoming a strawman.
Edited by - NomnoMnOm on 6/18/2017 12:46:14 AM

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Snowbunny Sorcerer
Deactivated User

She's hot but not my type of stroke game, I don't play sword fights with that which mirrors me.
146 Posts
5/17

Posted - Jun 18 2017 : 2:42AM

I always laugh at that excuse, these women are in porn, they get called a slut, a whore, a bitch, and practically get sexually abused (i.e. spat on, slapped, hair-pulled, shoved, pushed, manhandled) and raped/gang raped on set by white boys. But "no reference to IR please"....how bizarre. They get portrayed in vanilla porn in the worse way possible, but, but, "no mention of race, thank you". That's interesting. Someone has some 'splaining to do!

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pat362
Senior Member

10083 Posts
3/10

Posted - Jun 18 2017 : 2:09PM

^I get the feeling that this is a subject that you are unable to be objective about and because of that there is no way to properly reply to any of your post because your mind is already made up. Your last post proves that you have a very skewed idea of what is vanilla porn. I can assure you that the word slut, whore and bitch are never used in vanilla porn. There is also no hair pulling, shoveling, slapping or general mistreatment of the performers in vanilla porn and it's for damn sure that there is no gangbangs.
vanilla porn is normally a one-on-one scene where the producers tries to replicate a normal sexual encounter between two people. The penetration is normally vaginal but it can be argued that a soft anal penetration would still make the scene vanilla in nature.
Ultimately a performer is damned if she does or doesn't do IR porn because if she doesn't do it then every person with an agenda will accuse her of being racist. If she does do it but waits a while or wants more money than she will again be called a racist. The only performer who seem to not get called racist are those that do interracial right from the start but then they get accused of being choosy because they will only work with a select group of performers. My philosophy is simple. I am thrilled when my favorite performers does something new or different but at no point do I expect that she owes me that new or different thing. I'm just patient and hopeful that she will and if she doesn't do it then the next ten girls who come after her will.

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ocolot
Member

71 Posts
6/15

Posted - Jun 18 2017 : 2:18PM

i think Rachel Starr would be one of the biggest names to do her first IR, she has been rencently quite active shooting scenes. The main problem is her rate and that she want to have a lot of control in that scene. Maybe Blacked with that glam style would convice her because of the quality of the production. However all that people calling her racist dont help when she obviously is not racist.

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