I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Apr 13 2017 : 7:45PM
^I assume you're talking about Nicole Aniston? A good number of consumers will treat her first IR as a big deal, and whatever amount she was paid probably reflects that.
^ [Tweet is no longer available] And it's not like she didn't publicly state last month that she was going to shoot IR. This doesn't seem like a situation where the offer came first, but one where the desire to shoot it came first. I'd imagine multiple offers came in as soon as she put that out there, and she just picked the best one.
Edited by - whatsatelephonebill on 4/13/2017 8:43:56 PM
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Stall Deactivated User
83 Posts 3/17
Posted - Apr 14 2017 : 9:21PM
It also a Price tags on skin colors. That's pretty much what Blacked and other interracial releases boils down to. Price tags on skin colors. Like cars or clothes, except on human beings. Just like slavery when black slaves were sold by racist white slave masters, it the same with the porn industry because black men performer are like slaves
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Apr 14 2017 : 10:57PM
^That interracial sex in porn carries with it a certain "price tag" because of the physical characteristic of skin color doesn't mean that black men are "slaves." If you're selling sex, your physical attributes matter. For example, that Mandingo is a black man with an especially big penis matters to a lot of consumers. So the question for all involved, Mandingo included, is how to best translate that into money. If you're scandalized by that, I wonder if your issue is not with sex work itself.
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Stall Deactivated User
83 Posts 3/17
Posted - Apr 15 2017 : 12:45AM
Here is my question, do these girls who get paid more to do IR don't like IR at all but only do it for money or is there a different
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Apr 15 2017 : 5:31AM
^We can't generalize. That said, everyone in porn is looking to get paid and that should be expected. It's a job. Pornstars don't show up on set to do volunteer work. That doesn't mean that they don't also enjoy their job, but let's just keep in mind that it is a job and people are working for pay.
Did she mention Nikki? Also Lisa's first IR showcase was many years ago and it was mainly made with scenes from her site (Lisa Ann's HungXXX) some other IR Showcases were directed and produced by Lisa herself. So the assumption that she got "paid" is odd , because she earned money from subscriptions , from rentals , from sales aqnd everything related to those titles. More than that , she did her first IR early in her career when she was still a nobody and doing IR wasn't anything special , I seriously doubt that anybody would have paid her more to shoot that sfirst cene back then
Here is mine , does any performer necessarily like what she's doing or does it for the money ? Does she/he actually like the partner she/he is paired with ? and even if she likes black guys in real life does she have to like any black performer she's paired with? Last but not least if a scene is more valuable for any reason why shouldn't those involved get more for it? Is the producer the only one with a right to earn more from a profitable endeavour?
Edited by - LCF on 4/15/2017 11:15:33 AM
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Eco195 Deactivated User
126 Posts 2/12
Posted - Apr 15 2017 : 8:11PM
Considering how few did it years ago and how many more do now because of the extra pay through Blacked it seems clear they didn't want to work with Black talent. And most still wouldn't without receiving a financial inducement in the form of double to quadruple the typical pay for a boy girl scene ($2000-$4000). Treating it like an act similar to anal or a gangbang. When it's not.
^ Blacked is pushing more girls to shoot IR but at the same time, a lot of these girls are compensated so well, they end up retiring off that payday. I wonder how many of the females abruptly declined their scene production once they shot for Blacked?
^ Performers quit all the time for tons of different reasons. Unless you can come up with some specific examples, I don't know that I'd say very many, if any of them, quit specifically because they felt like they got enough money from Blacked to not need to shoot anymore.
^^ I find it hard to believe that any performer could retire off what they get for 1 scene with Blacked, even if it is an exclusive 1st IR. Most professional performers do over 100 scenes. Nobody can retire off 1 scene. At best I would imagine it could possibly cover their living expenses for 1 year, but even that sounds really farfetched.
Once again, I've absolutely no problem at all with performers accepting lucrative offers and capitalizing on opportunities to earn more money. The ONLY personal annoyance about this whole practice is how long it can cause the wait to be for performers who are going to work with us at some time in the future.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Apr 16 2017 : 3:25PM
It's not as if extra pay wasn't available before Blacked. What's changed is that Blacked has made first IR trend earlier. Pre-Blacked era performers often waited years to shoot IR. The result is that many of them would just end up retiring before ever shooting it. While it's very likely that some agents and past performers would have said have never said yes to IR, I wouldn't assume that they were the norm.I quoted Mimefreak earlier:The similarity "to anal or a gangbang" is how consumers ("a huge fan base") treat first IR. It's a really existing similarity.
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Eco195 Deactivated User
126 Posts 2/12
Posted - Apr 17 2017 : 4:40AM
Not really. There isn't much demand for the first of this type of scene. Given that you have two main studios. Not a crush of them. There's Lansky and Jules Jordan. And jules has been supplanted by Lansky as "the" director to shoot for in this genre. And Jules when he was the go to director took many years to get girls firsts. Blacked does it in months or a year tops. So there isn't much competition thus the extra pay isn't to get exclusive rights it's to convince girls who don't want to do said scenes to do them. So they don't really want to do the scenes they have to be enticed to do them. Which contradicts the narrative that the public is clamoring for them.The pay for such firsts on Blacked is more like $2000 ($1000 is the standard b/g pay) to $4000. Not a few hundred so that's definitely enough of an incentive for a girl who doesn't really want to do the scenes to do them. And you have women like Adriana Chechik who said she really doesn't like Blacks on the Stern show years ago and obviously had no intention of working with them, but when offered enough money finally worked with Blacked. So she was legitimately racist at the time and was honest about it, but the racism was overcome by her desire for more money. So in most cases, unless a girl is a neo-nazi or something similar she'll take the extra pay and suppress her displeasure and do the scene.Well known Black male talent get paid more because they're rarer and thus more valuable. New guys don't get much. But a girl doing a scene with Lex or Mandingo is significant because of the interest level. And a big named girl working with either one is bigger news still, thus the extra pay is warranted. Also if the girls are getting extra pay for their first such scene then the male talent should receive extra pay as well.It certainly is exactly like that example. Look, most people wouldn't want to flip burgers for Minimum Wage, but for double or triple min wage such as $16/hr or $24/hr they certainly would. So for a girl who finds such scenes distasteful but isn't a raging racist only moderately racist, $1000 isn't enough to do a scene with Black male talent, but they'll take $2000-$4000. And rumor has it Nicole Aniston was paid even more than that. Now I don't know if that's true, but I do know that for the entirety of her career when asked she has refused to even consider doing such scenes because of her family being against it. Now whether that was the real reason who knows but she pointedly avoided such scenes until now.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Apr 17 2017 : 10:40AM
Archangel doesn't count? Dark X? The fact is that even studios that rarely shoot IR like Brazzers make a point of explicitly identifying first IRs. Why is that? Just 'cause? Or is because they recongize that there exists a specific demand for first IRs.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Apr 17 2017 : 10:44AM
This was already covered earlier.Mime's worked with her. He's interacted with her. He's a black man. What makes you more knowledgeable than him on the subject of Adriana? Edited by - misspornUSA on 4/17/2017 10:46:33 AM
Clarify how many years ago are you talking about? Because what does appear as "many more" is actually just "more on high end productions" but Evasive Angles, Juicy, Candy Shop, WCP , Darkside, Woodburn , Justin Slayer, John E Depth , Black Market, Devil's and many others were producing tons of IR content a lot more than today . It wasn't on the spot though Also Blacked doesn't just pay for a first IR scene , they pay for 6 months exclusivety , they pay them to not shoot with anybody else Edited by - LCF on 4/17/2017 2:49:35 PM
While I am not the original poster I would say that he was talking about the mid 90's through the US Great Recession + Recovery roughly (1995-2015)where many of the studios you mentioned disappeared that is what I personally refer to as the contract girl era, when Vivid, Digital Playground, and such ruled the porn world. You are correct in that in those years those studios were putting out tons of IR content even more than today and there were many girls doing IR back then and pretty early in their career but here is the thing many of the girls doing IR in those years were not what would be considered the top tier during those years some were of course but that was years after they had entered porn of course if at all and only with certain studios. Nowadays there has been a 180 the big companies that once ruled porn are nowhere near as powerful and where you find many of the top tier talent actually doing IR within 1-2 years as opposed to 4-5 years down the line. So what I infer the poster to be saying is consider how few top tier in the prime of their careers girls did IR in years I mentioned as opposed to the many more top tier girls in their prime doing IR in the last few years. I am not going to say the money is the only factor though it certainly can be a big one but also the average career span has been cut even more drastically and being around for a long time is even rarer than it was before, lots of new girls grew up in a very different world as well I was a teen of the 90's and in my 20's in the 2000's lots of these newer girls were just being born and yeah being influence in the 90's -00s was different than in the 10's.
^ ^^ I never said that there was NO top talent in those years doing IR. What I said was that there were not too many doing IR early in their careers. Much of the top tier talent in those days that eventually did IR did it years down the road some 5 to 10+ years after their careers began. Of course I considered and recognize that there were women some both of you mention who were top tier talent and doing IR early in their careers and when I say early I mean 0-1 years in or 1-2 years in, I would say of all the girls you two mention Aurora Snow , Lisa Ann, Dana Vespoli , Savannah Samson , Belladonna, and Sasha Grey qualify. I am sorry Janine and Julia Ann would not. In those years that was much more the rule that you waited as long as possible to do IR and those top talents doing it early were very much the exceptions. Would you not agree with that?
Hahahaha. You are out of your mind if you don't think there is demand for this. It's certainly more than just 2 companies interested in it. On top of Blacked and Jules Jordan, Lex over at Evil Angel has also touted 1st IR scenes. The ArchAngel has also touted 1st IR scenes. Then there's DarkX/HardX. They have had some really good ones too. Also Elegant Angel. And we haven't even mentioned Dogfart. Or the countless other smaller brands like BlackIsBetter or TeensLoveBlackCock, and hell, just look at performers who operate their own private websites. Most of them would tout a 1st IR if they haven't done one yet. I'm pretty sure Ava Addams did. From a business perspective, it would be illogical to not value it. I'm not saying it's good to hold out necessarily. I think holding out has limits and sometimes it's just silly and leaving money on the table. Overall I would not advise holding out for too long. It's probably leaving money on the table if a performer "dodges" for more than 2 years of vanilla B/G. In most cases anyway. Honestly, fighting this is like trying to ice skate uphill.
Honestly, even at the most, a few grand isn't much. You really think someone who is racist would ever fuck a black dude if she didn't have to? None of these performers have to do what they do, or at least none of the ones producers are eager to score any 1st anything of. If they are demanded for any 1st anything, they must be at least marginally attractive, and any marginally attractive female doesn't have to do a damn thing she doesn't want to. A porn chick can make 100 grand in a year EASY, just working once a week pretty much. You REALLY think if she hates blacks, a measly extra 4% if all it takes to have her fold on her hateful principles? I really think yall make this into something way more concerning than it is.I'm not sure what the argument is here. Probably just talking past each other at this juncture. I agree with most of these points, as I've previously asserted. I don't necessarily think black guys are getting paid more because they are rarer. Usually that would be the case, and yes there are comparably very few black guys in the biz, but I don't think the industry (which is to say the market) cares quite as much about abundance of male talent. They DO care about dick size though. Big dicks are way more marketable than small ones. But it's not just size, it's also the being black itself that is more marketable. I believe the truth is, if we were to equalize all other things physically, there would still be extra value in black guys because we know interracial, particularly BM/WF remains popular, moreso than the average nondescript generic scene. So while I have contended that if all the black talent in porn unionized they could almost certainly demand more than they currently get, that would take extraordinary cooperation and trust. I believe they could capitalize even more based on scarcity vs demand. But it's hard to blame them for not wanting to rock the boat, and there's no guarantee some new talent won't just begin emerging from the amateur circuits to undercut them. Nobody wants to risk fucking their bread up, especially if they realize it's already better than the average performer. But you actually reinforce what I was saying about scarcity. Not only is the talent pool in shorter supply of black performers, but relatedly, 1st time IR is also rare. Hence the inordinate bonus pay. I think some of these things are simply inextricable.
With all due respect, the fast food analogy doesn't work because yes, people would do it if they got paid x2 or x3, but you're speculating about racists, and you're not talking about a fixed doubling or tripling of earnings. This is about a one time bonus. And I don't think anyone is as adamant and staunch in their deep-seated convictions of opposing flipping burgers as to be a fitting comparison to racists' opposition to getting sexually intimate with someone of a race they hate. It would not be too hard to persuade a minimum wage worker in some other industry to go into fast food if they can ear a lot more money and keep earning that. But it still would be a little harder to persuade them if they only got that extra pay for 1 day. I think most people wouldn't mind doing it, but some would still be like, "Wait, I only get the extra pay for 1 day? Nah, I'm good." And even fewer racists who have already made hundreds of thousands of dollars in porn would cave and let a black guy fuck them for what amounts to about 1 or 2% of all the money they've made already. I don't like speculating about specific performers as to whats in their head or heart, but hypothetically, what if Nicole Aniston was truly racist. Do you REALLY think after doing porn and avoiding IR for over 6 years, let's just hypothetically say cuz she hates blacks and would probably think just the worst of black men, that even if she was offered 5 grand, she would just be like, yeah ok! She's probably made almost 100 times that much already. If she's that against it, I think it would simply be cost prohibitive to lure her. The cost would be outrageous even for Blacked. I mean a truly racist person arguably would never do it at any price, but if they could be bribed, the price would make us balk. I don't think Nicole is racist. I just really don't. I definitely believe she got a tidy bonus for this exclusive for Blacked, but hardly remotely near an amount to get someone truly racist to come off their hate. I don't think 10 grand would be enough to persuade a racist performer whose popularity is on the level of Nicole's. Maybe she really is racist, IDK. I just doubt it.
Hey, if someone is offering to pay me much more than $2k-4k for what is just, in practice, another b/g scene, I'm taking it and chortling all the way to the bank. I don't blame performers who accept. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.
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Stall Deactivated User
83 Posts 3/17
Posted - Apr 21 2017 : 10:38PM
So how much more we are taking about, I think around $5,000 to $8,000.
^ It depends on the performer. A performer a month or two into the industry, no matter how attractive, probably isn't getting the type of offers that Jynx Maze or Nicole Aniston got.
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Rosco Fuji Deactivated User
On the licking stick, Mr. Magic Dick! 3309 Posts 2/09
Posted - Apr 22 2017 : 10:48AM
What?? You mean that the girls doing porn aren't all sex crazed nymphos?
I just finished listening to an interview of Adriana Chechik on one of Howard Sterns old shows and wow! She flat out refused to sleep with black men on set or in real life, even though she did with a foster parent (legal age). She seemed pretty uninhibited as long as the person was not black and it was something she liked. Do you know the names of any other openly anti black male pornstars? If you got names tell me. Do you think these white women think black men are so ugly? I know IR can be taboo but they do things that are very taboo anyways.
Mime also defended Vrod retweeting a fan saying "she's too beautiful to do IR." Now, I'm not saying Mimefreak isn't more knowledgeable on the subject of Adriana or Vrod or that either is racist (they both could have indeed just been trying to raise their asking price), I'm just posting information for others to draw their own conclusions from. [Tweet is no longer available][/tweet] I will say that it is "interesting" how other performers/directors/producers responded on twitter, especially in comparison with Mimefreak's response.
Glag Jules Jordan at least let us in on this topic. paying way more than 2 - 4k in 2017 is crazy. If nicole aniston is getting way more than that there is no telling what a Alexis Texas of the world is asking for 10 - 20k i'm guessing. Some of these hardcore porn girls getting more than that Farrah chick from teen mom who had mainstream fame. If some of these producers were smart they would actually go after some true fresh chicks like "girls do porn" does and get a melissa king!
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Rosco Fuji Deactivated User
On the licking stick, Mr. Magic Dick! 3309 Posts 2/09
Posted - Apr 22 2017 : 7:06PM
So, what's the big deal? There is no laws in this world and or porn that say someone isn't allowed to be biased against doing black guys. So someone might be racist, big deal.
There were three instances of industry folks reacting to V-Rod: the one you mentioned, the snapchat 'classy' comment, and her allegedly walking off set. And Rosco is right; a performer saying or implying that she's too beautiful and classy to work with black guys, or anything similar, isn't all that big of a deal when it comes to her still doing well in the industry. Edited by - NomnoMnOm on 4/22/2017 9:22:44 PM
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Eco195 Deactivated User
126 Posts 2/12
Posted - Apr 22 2017 : 9:35PM
The sites you mentioned came after Blacked or right around the time of them and pretty much all use the same pool of girls as Blacked. When girls want to shoot their 1st, they go to Lansky because it's upscale, high profile and pays big apparently. As for DF they're bottom barrel and have been since the beginning of their creation. Most girls don't do their firsts with them. And as is obvious their production values are terrible. Concerning the "racist" label: I don't know Nicole, I do know though that she made it clear years ago that her family was pretty racist and that was the reason given for her not doing such scenes. So if we assume a given girl is not a neo-nazi, kkk member, or white supremacist type but is only moderately or slightly racist then she'll refuse for years to do such scenes until enough of a financial incentive makes it worth it. And that's what we see now with Blacked with a lot of girls. Girls who in 2007 would never do such scenes or wait till the very end of their careers, do them now in the 1st year of their careers. And that's partly because there isn't as much easy money in porn as there used to be pre-internet, also because such scenes are far more widely accepted now, and because of the extra pay being offered to girls. About MimeFreak, his record is pretty abysmal on this issue as I've seen him joke with girls who were using anti-black racial slurs. So for him to defend Veronica and Adriana is absurd, but not surprising.That comment was disgusting. And obviously indicative of racism. Not sure why some would equivocate on determining that. Edited by - Eco195 on 4/22/2017 11:17:32 PM
Of the major sites he mention, only DarkX and ArchAngel came out at the same time as Blacked, and of those two only DarkX uses primarily the same talent pool (even then, Mason was generally more willing to shoot IR veterans than Lansky was). BiB and TLBC are more obviously copycats, though, and offshoots of existing companies (BiB is literally just all the IR scenes from Babes.com). Lex/Mercenary and Elegant existed and were shooting and touting first interracial scenes while Greg was still primarily shooting We Live Together at Reality Kings. You were completely wrong with your statement of there only being 2 players in the "first IR" game.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Apr 23 2017 : 1:03PM
That it was disgusting doesn't mean that it wasn't pornspeak for "Pay me a a lot of money." If her tweet wasn't so direct in its racism I'd be less suspicious, but for her to be so provocative "'Just 'cause" seems ridiculous.It is best to get informed, then speak. Mime didn't "defend" Adriana (scroll down on the linked page).Explanation is not defense. "This is why she did it" is not the same as "It is good that she did it." Edited by - misspornUSA on 4/23/2017 1:03:54 PM
Again if those JJ is referring to are Blacked they DO NOT PAY for just a first IR they pay them for EXCLUSIVETY for six month , basically the pay them to not shoot with anybody they pay the money they lose not shooting As a secondary effect such payments pull out of the market many competitors who can't or won't pay that much so that their excusive scenes stay exclusive for a long time Edited by - LCF on 4/23/2017 3:23:54 PM
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Stall Deactivated User
83 Posts 3/17
Posted - Apr 23 2017 : 8:17PM
If I was a black male performers I won't never work with someone who want to talk badly about my races. I bet you Adriana is a racist in real life and just say the N-Word behind there back. Some girls don't like going G/G but they do it anyway, the same with anal or dp. Edited by - Stall on 4/23/2017 8:20:59 PM
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Apr 23 2017 : 9:17PM
^^Have you interacted with her at all? I ask because your bet is based on the assumption that you're more aware of her racial views than people who've actually interacted with her. I do think that it is possible for a racist to shoot IR scenes. That has been discussed on this thread. However, I don't believe that Adriana is a racist. Hell, she shot an IR blowjob on camera before the Stern interview and just pretended that it never happened so that she could get a big payday for her "first IR" (not a play that worked as well as she expected apparently). It seems to me that she simply wanted to get paid very well and that is why she went about things the way that she did. Edited by - misspornUSA on 4/23/2017 9:21:24 PM
He didn't say that , he just referred to a first IR
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Rosco Fuji Deactivated User
On the licking stick, Mr. Magic Dick! 3309 Posts 2/09
Posted - Apr 24 2017 : 1:19PM
He's said numerous times that he doesn't pay for and has no real interest in "firsts." Maybe no one has offered her any more I/R scenes or maybe she doesn't like the current crop of male performers. Then again, maybe she doesn't like the type of I/R scenes being offered her. Personally, if I were a female performer my BBC "No" list would be rather extensive.
^ If he really doesn't care about firsts, then why'd he get so upset when Mason released her DP with Jillian Janson before he released her first shot one?
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Rosco Fuji Deactivated User
On the licking stick, Mr. Magic Dick! 3309 Posts 2/09
Posted - Apr 24 2017 : 7:30PM
^ I have no idea if he did or didn't. I'm just going by what I've seen him post in the past.
^ While I definitely believe that Jules doesn't usually/ever thrown around the type of money that Lansky does for firsts, I do find it hard to believe that when he does shoot a first (and knows he shot a first), that he doesn't usually also include some sort of exclusionary period. From what I've seen, the majority of companies do when it's something that the performer didn't first list on their agency page. Edited by - whatsatelephonebill on 4/24/2017 9:19:35 PM
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Stall Deactivated User
83 Posts 3/17
Posted - Apr 25 2017 : 12:53PM
Did Jules at onetime paid Jenna Presley (before she went to God) a lot of money for her 1st IR?
Introducing Lady LorReign
Posted - Apr 13 2017 : 7:45PM
