I just read Mr. Deen's Daily Beast interview and I believe, now more strongly than ever, that the preponderance of the accusations against him are credible. Being a sexually active human being requires an understanding of consent, being a dom requires an even more acute understanding of and sensitivity to consent. Deen responded to many of the accusations against him with deflections. He demonstrated a lack of remorse that betrays an obtuse understanding of consent. Is there enough evidence to convict? Nope, probably not; there often isn't in sexual assault cases, even when the accused is guilty as sin. However, I can stand on firm ground and say that I believe he violated the boundaries of his costars on multiple occasions. The content of these accusations, the fact that the accusations were made, and the people who made them convince me that at least in some cases Deen has exhibited an insensitivity to the consent of others. In another field, these incidents might be chalked up to "unprofessional behavior", but when you're job is sex, and particularly rough sex, conduct of this stripe becomes something far more insidious. As someone who watches porn, I can't abide this. If I'm watching people be sexually exploited, if i'm watching someone who is genuinely afraid, who doesn't want to do what they are doing, and isn't comfortable with what is being done to them, then I'm complicit in something I want no part of. You guys suggesting that there's no problem and nothing to see here because rape can't be proven are deeply misguided. Anyone who has sex, privately or professionally, has a right to be comfortable with it. These women weren't, and we facilitated it by consuming the content, thus indicating to the content providers that we were okay with how it was done. Be a decent person and acknowledge that undeniable proof of category 1 class A big bold lettered RAPE isn't the only standard by which we can make a decision about what we, as consumers, are okay with demanding in the marketplace. Human sexuality is delicate and bad experiences scar. We have to demand care from the industry because none of us with a conscience want to see human beings be scarred, hurt, exploited or mistreated.
#SDNY he's all yours. -- Michael Steele 5110 Posts 3/03
Posted - Dec 9 2015 : 2:11AM
So given that Jodi Taylor in the blog post linked above somewhere spills the beans that the only reason that girls do porn is because -- surprise, surprise -- they got bills to pay, are you going to be throwing out all those girls-rimming-guys and "the filthiest/most hardcore things [Casey Calvert]'s agreed to do" videos which your sparse posting history indicates you're really into? Because let me break it to you, chief: they're not doing this stuff because they want to.
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Mass Facialties Deactivated User
"Facialized Vol. 7" 2021 AVN Awards Winner: Best Oral Movie 9308 Posts 9/13
#SDNY he's all yours. -- Michael Steele 5110 Posts 3/03
Posted - Dec 9 2015 : 2:18AM
I'm sorry. I misquoted Jodi. What she actually said was "they have bills they desperately need to pay." I left out the "desperately" part.
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TrumanBurbank Deactivated User
890 Posts 2/12
Posted - Dec 9 2015 : 2:59AM
After reading the Daily Beast interview with Deen, I think he is totally getting screwed over. Such a shame that in this society, a bunch of girls can group together against a guy and shout rape and attempt to destroy his life with no proof.
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Mass Facialties Deactivated User
"Facialized Vol. 7" 2021 AVN Awards Winner: Best Oral Movie 9308 Posts 9/13
Posted - Dec 9 2015 : 3:07AM
^ Well, that settles it then. End thread.
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Ben Mockridge Deactivated User
382 Posts 9/15
Posted - Dec 9 2015 : 3:27AM
Yep i tend to agree, a lot if it seems to be 2 people consensously indulging in extreme boundary pushing sex - and then one party whining that he or she didnt like it.
And I think you're so unbiased that you would make this exact post after someone says the opposite. Like you did after ryan250's post. Oh wait you didn't. LoL.
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Mass Facialties Deactivated User
"Facialized Vol. 7" 2021 AVN Awards Winner: Best Oral Movie 9308 Posts 9/13
Posted - Dec 9 2015 : 3:46AM
I'm just amazed that so many here have spent hours of their time typing out what are essentially essays in this thread. And here, I thought I really had no life.
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Dec 9 2015 : 4:13AM
You're based that on exactly nothing besides your own prejudice and imagination. Because someone agrees to have rough sex doesn't give you permission to strangle them in their sleep. That that is even considered debatable is laughable.
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Ben Mockridge Deactivated User
382 Posts 9/15
Posted - Dec 9 2015 : 4:33AM
@ Blacksix - You are jumping horses to sex that is non consensual. I was merely agreeing with mapofhawaii that a lot if it seems to be 2 people consensously indulging in extreme boundary pushing sex - and then one party whining that he or she didnt particularly like it afterwards. You seem to be trying to be gratuitously arguementative just for the sake of it which is rather silly and i am not interested.
It's amazing to see people continuously conflating consensual rough sex with anything remotely ressembling rape. Consensual sex, by definition, doesn't border on rape, and it doesn't change when it's a gangbang where a woman has a very submissive role or when Maitresse Madeline is subjugating men as if they were slaves.
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sparrow55 Deactivated User
82 Posts 11/15
Posted - Dec 9 2015 : 5:52AM
Rape definition has been getting bigger and bigger. While obvious in normal scenarios, the line separating rape from consensual sex is pretty narrow in BDSM, rough sex scenarios. There is a line but it is pretty narrow. That said From the article:Is no one bothered about this one ?
She said they had a safe word that she used repeatedly but he ignored her when you have a safe word and that safe word is used ANYTHING that comes after that is definitely NOT CONSENSUAL- any previous consent ends right there with the safe word
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Ben Mockridge Deactivated User
382 Posts 9/15
Posted - Dec 9 2015 : 9:18AM
So are you saying he dunked her head one time , then brought her back up and she used her safe word above water but he nevertheless , ignoring her safe word proceeded to dunk her again ? If so please provide a loink cos ive not read anything like that.
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06
Posted - Dec 9 2015 : 10:19AM
Interesting. So you're saying the onus to define the limits was on Angel in that case? So you're saying that if I can come up to you and hold your head underwater that's cool as long as you didn't say otherwise ahead of time? Or is it just okay as long as I'm fucking you while I do it?Says the last bastion of neutrality on here. No it hasn't.I'm going to go out on a limb and say that he was talking about Stoya, not Joanna.
MOD: This put down of a group of people needs to end. Not just for you but everyone in this thread doing it. If you need to refer to a group with "the" prior, it is usually a put down. If you need clarification, read the forum etiquette.
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06
Posted - Dec 9 2015 : 11:14AM
^^Did you read what you "basically agreed" with? That example took it all the way to death. Do you think you can consent to being murdered? Even if you say "yeah you can dunk my head under" am I not under any responsibility to a) keep you alive and b) make sure you're okay with it? If you consent to being bound and gagged, are all bets off at that point? Can I defile you in any way I see fit since at that point you're unable to say "no" or utter a safe word? In the case given by Angel, I think they both bear some responsibility. Yes, Joanna should have made her limits more clear ahead of time, and defined a way that she could communicate if those limits were reached, but that doesn't let Deen off the hook for pushing past those boundaries anyway. It seems a lot of people on here think that on any given allegation one party is 100% to blame and and the other is 100% innocent and that's not really how it works. Just because Angel didn't protect herself in a manner that seems obvious in hindsight, doesn't mean that Deen didn't do anything wrong. (which seems to be the assertion some people are trying to make) As far as the "they changed their mind later" defense is that based on anything tangible or just a theory you made up to fit your narrative?
I just had an opportunity to read the Daily Beast interview with Aurora Snow and find it particularly interesting how some of his responses are crafted. "A number of women claim they've said “no” and you continued anyway. What kind of misunderstanding is happening? The claims are inaccurate or out of context." This is only my interpretation of what I read, and yes, I have read every single post of this thread, but he oddly isn't adamant that some of these accusations didn't happen. "Out of context" and "perception" and "inaccurate" are vague, imo and suggest that some of these incidents may have occurred. The issue for Deen becomes that while he perceives the interactions one way the reality is that the women involved very much perceived it differently. Perception is one's own reality and he seems to acknowledge that some of the accusers may have felt uncomfortable. Whether or not he actually committed rape will likely never be known. I think denying that he has sexually assaulted at least some of these women is a much more difficult argument to present.
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06
Posted - Dec 9 2015 : 12:52PM
First of all, your quoting ability on here needs improvement.Again, I'm referencing the post you agreed with. There was an equivalency drawn between rape and murder, so I'm just clarifying where you stand on that. The implication in that post was that Angel (not Deen) should have sorted everything beforehand because she could have died, not because she could end up in a non-consensual situation, as if the latter is irrelevant because of the former. (not to mention it put all of the responsibility on her)Is he not also responsible to ensure that she is consenting? He sure as shit didn't do that, did he? Even by his account he didn't do anything to verify when pushing the boundaries.Just clarifying. As far as I can tell that's the first time you've acknowledged that he bore any responsibility with regards to that incident. I'm not a mind reader.It's hard not to when you keep making up words (and no I'm not talking about your Latin) So what part of my statement do you take issue with? What I said and what you said both indicate that something changed ex post facto. I indicated thoughts. you indicated feelings. Is that it? Are you really splitting hairs over that?
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Ben Mockridge Deactivated User
382 Posts 9/15
Posted - Dec 9 2015 : 1:19PM
They are both responsible to ensure it is a mutually consensual situation. Please give a link to where Deen by his account didn't ensure that she is consenting when pushing the boundaries in the water dunking episode.
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06
Posted - Dec 9 2015 : 1:26PM
You can't prove a negative. (At least not without quoting every single thing that Deen has ever said on her which I'm obviously not going to do) I'm saying he didn't say that he ensured she was consenting. If you think that is incorrect, then please provide the quote.
Only time I would buy a girl flowers is if she was in the hospital 455 Posts 1/04
Posted - Dec 9 2015 : 1:32PM
Maybe the porn industry needs to change no to yes like the california colleges did recently? Makes no sense to me because I thought it was implicit but as the ambiguity above shows maybe it does? "On Sunday, California became the first state to adapt a “yes means yes” law, which mandates that students on college campuses get consent before sexual activity." http://www.buzzfeed.com/alisonvingiano/a-new-california-law-requires-college-students-to-give-conse#.lnwjwJYDW Will pretty much be the end of porn though or a lot of extra editing to take out all the yay's!!! Conjures up Sheldon from Big Bang theory didn't he do something like this with this girlfriend? wrote everything down they were going to do then had her sign it beforehand LOL Ironically seems the above law has some "unintended consequences" as this girl stated though: "Hey People. I have friends with college aged kids. You know what is happening as a result of this law? Videotaping. They couple both consent on video tape to sex and then video tape the encounter. That way, the male is protected and if the girl accuses him of rape, he has the video tape to prove otherwise. Unintended consenquences. Is this really what we want happening? I have to tell you. it makes sense to me." Edited by - daviangel on 12/9/2015 1:42:11 PM
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Ben Mockridge Deactivated User
382 Posts 9/15
Posted - Dec 9 2015 : 1:37PM
So if you dont know and cant prove it either way how can you make the assertion " He sure as shit didn't do that, did he?"
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06
Posted - Dec 9 2015 : 1:51PM
^ You're right. I was incorrect to state it like that. But we agree that Deen is responsible to verify consent in some manner, and we agree that he nor anyone else is claiming that he actually did that with Angel in the incident described above. I realize there are lawyers involved, and statements are likely going to be crafted in such a was to avoid making claims that could later be called into question, but I'm doubtful that had Deen actually verified consent, he wouldn't be shouting that from the rooftops.
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pervybrit50 Deactivated User
473 Posts 11/13
Posted - Dec 9 2015 : 2:02PM
Another veteran performer weighs in. britney amber @Britney_Amber I can relate unfortunately..I was assaulted on his set last year in Sept.. Britney Amber Britney Amber’s Sex Holes by jamesdeen on September 10, 2014 today i shot britney amber jerking off on my floor. it is for a new series i am doing for jamesdeen.com and partnering with woodrocket. we both decided that boobs are cool and so i am conducting sociological experiments about boobs and their relationship with a public audience. it will come out as me just shooting porn, so if you are not interested in scientific studies about boobs then don’t worry. you can totally just watch babes with boobs do boob stuff. i didn’t tell britney to jerk it on the floor it just kinda happened. i have zero objections to how her scene went down and it gave me a boner. i like things that give me a boner. Edited by - pervybrit50 on 12/9/2015 2:47:01 PM
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Ben Mockridge Deactivated User
382 Posts 9/15
Posted - Dec 9 2015 : 2:04PM
Ok credit for so swiftly acknowledging your error. I think we agree in large part and im still not really sure what your taking me to task for. We agree that both parties are mutually responsible for ensuring the situation is a mutually consensual one. With regard to "and we agree that he nor anyone else is claiming that he actually did that with Angel in the incident described above." Your point about Deen shouting it from the roof tops - the same principle applies to Angel - insofar as woudnt Angel be shouting it from the rooftops if the reverse were true ? Is she shouting any confirmation on this point from any roof tops ?
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06
Posted - Dec 9 2015 : 2:18PM
^ Yes, I think we're mostly in agreement. Didn't intend to really take you to task so much as clarify where you stood. Realistically I should probably be arguing with the hawaii guy that you quoted since I don't think you agree with him as much as you may have first though. :) But I suspected he probably was just a hit-n-run post and I knew you'd stick around to defend your position so I responded to you instead. No hard feelings.
I could be wrong, but I do not remember Ashley Fires shooting for Kink for some time now. Last I remember her there, she did a power exchange with Lorelei Lee where they both dommed and then subbed to each other. Also, I remember her being in a guest podcast/show a couple of years back with other industry types from New Hampshire saying that she had just relocated there. As I said, I could be wrong in my chronology.
I disagree with the last part in bold and italics. Some girls, like Kylie Ireland, Amber Rayne, Cherie DeVille, Chanta-Rose and Charlie Laine do/did enjoy having sex on camera and have said so.
Here is the problem I have with the fucking mainstream media's reporting on this. Laurie Penny, who has more baggage than an entire fleetload of 787 Dreamliners crapped this out for Time Magazine. Here is Penny's flaming bullshit/lack of research/lack of interest enough to get off her ass to do research beyond her agenda, all proudly on display in one moronic sentence:If Penny had bothered to thoroughly fact-check before rushing to file her story, she would have found the following tweets from Amber Rayne: I didnt want anyone thinking he had raped me cause he never did anything of the sort I was not raped. I was not sexually assaulted. I will never condone it and am so conflicted on everything going on. Hence why I haven't commented further then straightening There you have it. The mainstream media will either openly lie about what actually happened, or stop doing their research and chuck due diligence once they have sufficient gristle for their shit pieces. By saying Amber Rayne was "raped/assaulted" when Amber Rayne unambiguously tweeted that she was not raped and assaulted, Laurie Penny and Time show that they are as exploitationist, scuzzy and plain ureliable as Gene Ross and Luke Ford were back in the day. If Penny had done her due diligence before running off with a few cherry-picked tidbits that fit her agenda, she would also have discovered that Kora Peters and Nicki Blue are less than stellar witnesses. Lastly, I said that Penny has an agenda. She does. She is a radical feminist. That being said, after many months of conflict with a lot of people, I have come to the realization that not all feminists are radical feminists with an agenda of the Gail Dines/Anita Sarkeesian variety. There are indeed decent feminists who desire nothing more than having every opportunity a man has. Casey Calvert--who as noted a few pages back, supports Deen and not Stoya--identifies as a feminist. I saw her asked about her feminism and her response was "For me feminism means freedom." Casey Calvert is the exact opposite of Dines and Sarkeesian who want to abolish certain forms of entertainment, and abolish the First Amendment, in the name of feminism. There is also Cassie Jaye, a feminist who is the producer of the upcoming Red Pill, a documentary that interviews actual, real-life Mens Right Activists like Paul Elam's bunch. I don't care much for Elam; he is a nonentity who is one of the few people who can make that other nonentity Larry Pratt look like Wayne LaPierre (i.e., a person of importance.) That being said, I have to take my hat off to Cassie Jaye because she was open enough to candidly and objectively interview someone from the opposing side, the other side of the argument, an openness that got her shunned by lots of her fellow feminists like Amish reality show stars get shunned by Amish elders. There are a lot of things about feminism that I strongly disagree with, but I now recognize that there are decent feminists, who are decent individuals that I am no longer willing to dismissively lump in with extremists like Laurie Penny, Gail Dines and Anita Sarkeesian.
MOD: Adult DVD Talk is a Friendly Community Treat fellow posters as neighbors. Please be respectful of each other and each other's threads. If what someone has posted angers you, wait until you calm down before you respond or simply don't respond. Think before posting. Trolling (baiting people by intentionally posting inflammatory messages) or incessantly harping on an issue/person will lead to the deactivation of your account. As per all the previous warnings have stated, posts in violation are being deleted in full not edited of the offending portion. Edited by - flash on 12/9/2015 8:01:31 PM
Besides that, I think Voodoo (retired) has been most vocal in his criticism IMO. And obviously Small Hands who is like Brian ST a friend (or even the current SO) of Joanna Angel. He has probably never worked with/for Deen so far.
James Deen @ AEBN
Posted - Dec 9 2015 : 1:12AM
