I agree that all of that is true right now. The question is what happens if in 6 months if we're still at the same point we are right now (in terms of a lot of allegations with little to no concrete evidence for the majority of them). There are going to be companies that won't hire him again period, but are there going to be some that basically just say that they take his word over those who have accused him and hire him anyway? I mean, if you honestly believe he's telling the truth, then the only thing that would stop you from hiring him is bad PR, and there's a chance that that blows over the further we get away from the accusations. Edited by - whatsatelephonebill on 12/17/2015 4:23:17 AM
According to Wikipedia, feminism is a range of movements and ideologies. Basically, anybody can call themselves a feminist for any reason they want. Because all you need to do is interpret feminism in your own way, and you can call yourself a feminist. It's not like there is a Pope of Feminism who can excommunicate any self-described feminist, who deviates from the official feminist ideology. Feminists don't even have an official Feminist Bible that they can use as a standard for their ideologies. But to me, the word 'Feminism' means war between the sexes. And it's not just my idea. According to Wikipedia, the symbol below is a generic symbol of feminism. And this symbol looks very war-like to me. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminism [Image not found DB]
^ Generally, feminism means believing in equality between the sexes. The reason some people interpret it is as a "war" between sexes is because they think that to "give" certain things to women, that they have to be "taken away" from men.
^ A clenched fist doesn't always signify a punch/fighting. Unless you think this was about wanting to fight people. Edited by - whatsatelephonebill on 12/17/2015 4:47:16 AM
^ People usually clench their fists, when they get very angry. It's almost an instinctual manifestation of anger and aggression that people show without even thinking about it. And clenching your fist is the thing to do, just before you punch somebody. It's possible to weasel out some non-aggressive meaning of the above symbol. But that's not an honest interpretation of it.
I agree with you and with missporn. I've been in the BDSM D/s lifestyle/community since I was 16 years old and seen it perverted the past couple of years back. Guys like him think that big dick and suave smile keep them from being banned from countless swing clubs, groups and munches. But the adult industry isn't the BDSM community as a whole. The adult industry is closer to Hollywood than a lot of us would like to think. No charges. No arrests. No lawyers. Some will hire him. Some won't. The greatest thing about this country is we love a comeback story.
It's become such an abstract label over the last 20 years that I always question what somebody means when they call themselves a feminist. Do they mean:
A person who seeks for women to have equal rights, opportunities and privileges as men i.e. a gender egalitarian?
A woman who wants a contradiction of female privilege and special favours for being a woman while seeking equal rights, opportunities and privileges for women?
A glorified misandrist who thinks women should have everything in society as payback for the evil that all men have apparently been responsible for even though a man was in part responsible for their existence? More often than not these days, it's the latter two.
So, Stoya posted this today: http://graphicdescriptions.com/42-december17 I'm actually surprised as how non-specific it is. She doesn't really get into what happened to her, it's more about the response to what she has said than anything else.
^^ How much more specific does it need to be, especially when this case isn't in the hands of police and prosecutors yet? Edited by - JigglyBoobs on 12/17/2015 10:23:48 AM
I actually think the blog is on point. She clearly stands by her original accusation and goes on to explain why she chose social media to voice it. She further talks about the response that she hoped to get and how she would like to see the industry react. That being said, this blog will do nothing to sway those that don't believe her and reinforce the support for those that do. Changes nothing for the other 11 women that have their own claims.
In my opinion, this well written article by Stoya that was previously posted makes a lot of sense, especially in terms of making a safer working environment for all sex workers, and also in explaining her actions: Stoya: Graphic Descriptions
That's why I was a little surprised. She doesn't really respond to anything James said in his interview (which isn't that much of a surprise, since he didn't say much). I thought she might actually attempt to actively sway some people's opinion, but at this point that's probably a fool's errand. I do agree that it's well written, but one of her arguments has a problem that I'm not sure how you solve. It's in this part:While the basic idea of it is sound, the issue it runs into is the fact that more and more these days, performers are becoming producers and directors. Stoya herself is a producer/director for TrenchcoatX, for example. Dani Daniels was just named as a director for Brazzers. And that's not to mention the smaller stuff like Clips4Sale stores and the like. So where do you draw the line between being a performer and being a producer? Is someone who does both unfit to be on the board at all, or is it just a matter of how influential/large of a producer they are?
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IkeMan Deactivated User
40 Posts 12/15
Posted - Dec 17 2015 : 1:24PM
That hits the nail on the head. People believe their own lies nowadays - they make up fake narratives that suits their egoistical-hedonistic, irresponsible and pseudo-liberal agenda and eventually start to believe their own nonsense!I clearly laid out why "James Deen" his sexual behaviour might be problematic. Forms of sex that are deragatory and violent towards women (and based on the idea that a woman is a commodity ought to be used by men for sexual pleasure) are problematic per se, this is not to say that every person who engages in "rough sex" (whatever this is supposed to mean) is a serial rapist. So, to me it's still pretty self-evident that someone who acts like "James Deen" can not be someone who is pro-women and supports their rights and progress in society, since his entire lifestyle is based on the exact opposite. Calling "James Deen" a feminist is like calling the KKK a Civil Rights Movement for the emancipation of Black Americans or like calling the Nazis friends of the Jewish People. Edited by - IkeMan on 12/17/2015 1:27:54 PM
I really think some here are twisting what some of the feminist ideals involve. For some, as it applies to porn & sex it is about choice. Some feminists would fight vehemently that a woman has the right to choose how she wants her body to be displayed/used/enjoyed. In the same way that men can participate with less negativity, women should have that equal opportunity. It goes back to the whole stud vs. slut double standard. If a woman chooses to engage in "rough" or BDSM style sex that is entirely her prerogative and doesn't change that she should still feel empowered and in control. Safewords and proper communication are sacrosanct in the BDSM world. To dance around and suggest that the line gets blurred in the moment is absurd. Any person male or female that cannot or will not show the self control to govern their own behavior is an abuser, plain and simple. There is this ridiculous notion that submissive women are weak, mindless puppets for their dominants and in reality nothing is further from the truth.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Dec 17 2015 : 1:53PM
^YES!
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IkeMan Deactivated User
40 Posts 12/15
Posted - Dec 17 2015 : 2:39PM
What makes you think that women who invite men to treat them like trash are actually respectable and strong individuals of high intellect? This can't be true for obvious reasons! A person who respects herself/himself doesn't allow other person to abuse her/him for their pleasure. Maybe you watched too much porn and can no longer differentiate between your porn phantasies and actual reality?
Some very interesting excerpts;This matches something [invalid URL removed]Ashley Fires recently saidThese statements show that both Stoya and Ashley do care about the industry, enough so to be willing to themselves suppress bad things that happened to them because they realize that outsiders like Gail Dines, Shelley Lubben, Anita Sarkeesian and Michael Whinestain/AHF would only exploit this news in their jihad against the industry. I cannot help but contrast Stoya and Ashley's statements above with Deen going along with Whinestain/AHF and lashing out in an extremely low-blow manner against Kink.com. From the above quotes, it seems that Stoya and Ashley are the ones in this equation who have remained loyal to the industry as long as they could while Deen attacked it the minute things soured for him. Another couple of points. From StoyaFrom AshleyThese stand to reason. The adult industry is one that would make Darwin proud as it has shown a remarkable ability to evolve. After the HIV scare in the late 1990's, the industry founded AIM. When AIM was shut down, CET and TTS sprung up. And despite Whinestain/AHF's Measure B, the industry still produces today. If anything, Stoya and Ashley Fires' social media declarations are a cautionary tale to directors/producers/company owners. Every performer is on social media. Now, if anything illegal does happen on set, Twitter finding out about it is just a couple of touches and hours away. Stoya and Ashley's social media declarations could incentivize directors/producers/company owners to put stringent rules in place regarding consent on set, whether in or out of a scene. This would only be an enhancement of something currently available. I remember a BehindKink episode where they showed performers and crew attending a special on-Armory seminar on sexual harassment. All they would have to do to prevent the type of situation Ashley Fires describes from happening in future would be to have performers sign, along with their release, a statement that they understand that non-consensual off-set/on-site sex (in the communal bathrooms, for example) is prohibited, a protocol other companies can easily adopt. There is one last thing from Ashley Fires that bears pointing out:Another of Ashley's points:This part fits the pattern of people who are known to have been sexually assaulted. Current Irish Senator Mairia Cahill was sexually assaulted by an IRA terrorist shortly after the Good Friday Agreement (1998). She suppressed this until 2014, when IRA leader Gerry Adams' brother Liam was convicted of raping his own daughter Aine (with Gerry Adams' knowledge and blessing.) Reminders like that can unleash bottled up trauma. Edited by - White1970DodgeChallenger on 12/17/2015 2:59:05 PM
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IkeMan Deactivated User
40 Posts 12/15
Posted - Dec 17 2015 : 2:51PM
Masochism (just as Sadism) is a problematic psychological condition and disorder. People who suffer from it are adviced to seek professional treatment. Edited by - IkeMan on 12/17/2015 2:53:46 PM
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Dec 17 2015 : 3:05PM
You're right of course. I don't expect everyone outside of the lifestyle to understand it, but those who are ignorant need not also be disrespectful. Oh well.
I am not a feminist. That being said, I agree with the bit Dan wrote above about it being hard to define feminism these days since everyone and anyone can appropriate the word to their own purposes. Also, in feminism, as with any other movement, there are moderate, decent people, and then there are extremists. Casey Calvert is a feminist and she defines feminism as "the freedom to do what I want." Documentarist Cassie Jaye also identifies as a feminist and holds beliefs that are more hardline than Casey's. Jaye's beliefs, however, do not extinguish her basic decency as a human being, as evinced by the fact that she was willing to be open to talking [and listening to Paul Elam for her current project The Red Pill. Cassie Jaye's openness got her shunned by many feminists the same way Amish reality show stars get shunned by Amish bishops. There are feminist extremists like Gail Dines, Gloria Steinem, Anita Sarkeesian, Zoe Quinn and Leigh Alexander who want to effectively abolish the First Amendment in order to make films/videos and video games "safe" for women. These feminists are basically the Roosh V/Manosphere of feminism, an extreme fringe that many do not feel comfortable with/endorse. Also, feminists do turn on each other and eat their own.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Dec 17 2015 : 3:15PM
^As I see it, feminism is a big tent, regardless of the refusal of some feminists to view it that way.
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IkeMan Deactivated User
40 Posts 12/15
Posted - Dec 17 2015 : 3:17PM
So, calling someone "ignorant" for pointing out the obvious is "respectful"? Also, isn't the whole obedient-submissive-masochist-psycho lifestyle all about getting treated disrespectfully?
Stoya should come forward and do an interview. It's not fair that she can drop a bomb on Deen effectively destroying his career, go off the grid for 2 weeks, let social media prosecute him but not have to answer the many questions that remain.
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IkeMan Deactivated User
40 Posts 12/15
Posted - Dec 17 2015 : 3:35PM
What gives you this impression? Edited by - IkeMan on 12/17/2015 3:36:23 PM
I think you read way too much into that statement, especially considering that the only reason that he "threw Kink under the bus" is because they explicitly threw him under the bus first.
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Ben Mockridge Deactivated User
382 Posts 9/15
Posted - Dec 17 2015 : 3:41PM
Please give references to substantiate your assertion that Liam Adams raped his daughter "with Gerry Adams' knowledge and blessing." Everything i know about the case indicates that Gerry Adams found out about the rapes after they had stopped. There is no suggestion that the rapes occured with Gerry Adams knowledge or blessing afaiaa. I would be interested to read your sources as they conflict with the widely accepted version of events.
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Dragon Sign Deactivated User
3381 Posts 12/13
Posted - Dec 17 2015 : 3:46PM
I have no clue whether this given statement is worth a comment or not, but I do know of guys behaving like assholes in front of camera, and based of last decade of pornwatching Deen is NOT one of them. Just watch Jailbait 7 disc one and the opening scene featuring Victoria White and Mallory Rae Murphy. If Erik Everhard had not let this figure from Spain in, it would be a winner scene. Now I just had to be upset by some guy acting like a loser. The worst part is that I read a whole book partly about him, and I was told he was a nice guy all the way. I don't think so. But there's statements in different directions always. I just trust what I see. Not what I read.
what's exactly the problem for society if two people consensually enjoy what they're doing? The biggest problem I see is the stigma of other people judging them.
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IkeMan Deactivated User
40 Posts 12/15
Posted - Dec 17 2015 : 4:28PM
Sadists and Masochist behaviours are psychological disorders. They are problematic since the Sadist receives pleasure from hurting others and treating them deragotory (torturers and psychopathic murderers are typically sadists), while the Masochist is highly likely to get hurt because of willingly engaging in practices that are endangering the Masochists physical and mental integrity. If you want your little sister to engage in Masochistic practices, that's up to you. I wouldn't want that.
I agree. The fact that Casey Calvert and Cassie Jaye are still feminists despite doing things that other feminists despise them for doing supports the view that feminism is a big tent.
His anger at Kink is entirely understandable. If, however, he cared as much about the industry as Stoya and Ashley Fires purport to, he would have phrased his reaction as "I am extremely disappointed with Kink, for who I have shot many well-received scenes," instead of bringing up all the Whinestain/AHF-backed lawsuits against them. I do not know for a fact what happened between Deen on the one hand and Stoya and Ashley Fires on the other. But Deen willingly reciting the AHF/Whinestain party line on Kink.com is public for all the world to see right now.
And since you're here, I guess you would be ok with your sister doing normal porn (if this is the way you want to reason: this is the same logic). Anyway about the "psychological disorders": I don't care at all, first of all also homosexuality was considered a psychological disorder. We live in a society where everything has to be labeled and reduced to what is normal and what is not. I prefer to use my brain. For me two people who are not making damages to anyone else are free to do whatever they want (And that's true also for my sister). Even because to enjoy bdsm does not imply to be a sociopath. For the society it's much more dangerous the fact that someone drinking can kill you or me because he's driving drunk. Tons of other things are more dangerous than bdsm. A car race, a boxe match and tons of other sports are more dangerous. Do you know how many people who practice sport die every year? Much more than people practicing bdsm. Are you against sports? Or do you think that those who practice sport for that reason should go to see a psychologist? Edited by - leatherface on 12/17/2015 5:01:10 PM
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Ben Mockridge Deactivated User
382 Posts 9/15
Posted - Dec 17 2015 : 4:56PM
I find nothing to confirm your assertion that Liam Adams raped his daughter "with Gerry Adams' knowledge and blessing." Can you check your dates / timeline and quote me the passages that substantiate your assertion.
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IkeMan Deactivated User
40 Posts 12/15
Posted - Dec 17 2015 : 5:11PM
Of course not and my statement was not about porn, but about sexual practices. But your question seem to suggest that you are aware of the fact that porn is something, that one wouldn't want his sister to engage in, am I correct? So you are aware that porn is harmful and degrading, yet you feel the need to defend porn and bdsm!! After all you indecent people without honor can do what you like, it's not up to me to decide how you honorless people live your lifes. Edited by - IkeMan on 12/17/2015 5:14:10 PM
I am aware that we live in a society where social stigma and sense of shame are good way to control people. For instance in summer I would prefer to be naked a lot of time, I don't do it exactly because of that (and I admire porn performers who don't give a shit about it because they have more freedom than me). There's not a rational reason, but the sense of shame is the reason I don't do it. So there's actually no rational reason to think that my sister should not do porn: after all a normal work is also prostitution that pays a lot less money. It often is something very near to slavery and more degrading tha porn. So this is a way to tell to you that I absolutely think that reasoning using little sisters to trigger psychological reactions does not have anything to do with rationality and it's also kind of ridiculous.
Only time I would buy a girl flowers is if she was in the hospital 455 Posts 1/04
Posted - Dec 17 2015 : 6:08PM
Well at least we know what the Dec 17 reference someone posted about earlier was about: " Today is December 17th, the International Day to End Violence Against Sex Workers—all sex workers."
James Deen @ AnalVids
Posted - Dec 17 2015 : 4:22AM
