I don't even want a DVD with him in it! That's nothing new at all. Like I said I watched The Canyons movie with him in it. He played a sociopath in that one and did it VERY well! I sent her that link and she couldn't believe it. Doesn't sound like she's much of a fan now. For a very intelligent woman I can't believe she ever liked him. Glad I won't be hearing her talk about wanting to meet him or talking to him on Twitter again. Saddens me that Stoya will probably now stay as far away from other production companies as possible now. Shoot her own content and not work with the likes of Blacked.com or Tushy.com.
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Canadian_Cindy Deactivated User
1102 Posts 2/15
Posted - Dec 14 2015 : 8:36PM
All that means is he doesn't push past everyone's limits; just some and when he feels like it. Yay James! You are such a great guy!
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Canadian_Cindy Deactivated User
1102 Posts 2/15
Posted - Dec 14 2015 : 8:39PM
I don't know... that book series...... I maintain it is popular because he is a super good looking rich guy (the character in the book). If he was a taxi driver and the book was identical I bet it never got noticed or sold more than a handful of copies. So, my question is....... is it popular because women want to be mentally oppressed and roughed up (as it is in the book), or is it they want to be taken by a super good looking rich guy and that is the real driving force. I maintain that for a large portion of the people who liked that book and movie, it was the latter. If Paul Giamatti played the main guy's role in the movie I doubt it is a blockbuster. That book was never about the excitement of BDSM to most (heck, the way he treats her really isn't true BDSM lifestyle anyways), it was the fantasy of being taken by a rich powerful supermodel man.
Edited by - Canadian_Cindy on 12/14/2015 8:40:37 PM
first off.. christy mack wasn't raped... I shouldn't have said what i said to her, but my complaint wasn't denying or minimizing the extent of abuse or the injuries she suffered. My complaint against her was using it as a PR move and making it public instead of handling it on her own when i MYSELF know more of the story than most of the people out there so I spoke up. second off.. I wasn't extending any "15mins of fame" I have rightfully deserved every bit of fame i have received from this industry. I was called about the situation and gave my 2 cents. I have NEVER been a fan of james deen or the way that he made me feel when we did scenes and know ALOT about him. So I spoke only on my experiences with him not shelling out any accusations whatsoever. AND IF YOU READ THE ARTICLE POSTED IT EVEN SAYS THAT.
but that isn't the point. I just won't have people bring up something that i FOUGHT TO KEEP quiet and private in a way to attack me for saying that james is a scum bag.
Edited by - bonnierotten on 12/14/2015 10:27:28 PM
Only time I would buy a girl flowers is if she was in the hospital 455 Posts 1/04
Posted - Dec 14 2015 : 9:17PM
Gotta point there. You not going to see Ronda Rousey or any other contact sport, filming adult films was compared to contact sports was mentioned somewhere, think Dean himself complain or try to sue when someone they are working with gets a bit rough with them.
I've been popping in and out of this thread sporadically so I haven't seen every single post. But I'm rather impressed with everyone's ability to not take it completely overboard on such a heated topic. There are quite a few who I disagree with vehemently, but at least they've kept the overall tone civil. So kudos
Only time I would buy a girl flowers is if she was in the hospital 455 Posts 1/04
Posted - Dec 14 2015 : 9:24PM
Sounds like your typical hypocrite to me. I mean he wouldn't have been in the business and got as much work as he has if he wasn't in demand. I'm guessing most of the demand was from females because I don't know about the other guy's here but like I said before I always avoided any porn before with JD before as I already said many times before mainly due to smugness factor and because of what the majority of females thought of him before i.e. some sort of sex god , the only guy capable or worthy of fucking her etc..
Only time I would buy a girl flowers is if she was in the hospital 455 Posts 1/04
Posted - Dec 14 2015 : 9:28PM
That doesn't seem to lessen the demand or love from what I've seen though hence all the nice guys complaining about how they never end up with the girl and the girl saying they like nice guys but still attaching themselves to the bad boy!
Only time I would buy a girl flowers is if she was in the hospital 455 Posts 1/04
Posted - Dec 14 2015 : 9:39PM
THIRD OFF. MAX HARDCORE DID RAPE ME. I NEVER TESTED, I NEVER SIGNED A FUCKING FORM. I WENT TO HIS HOUSE BEFORE EVEN KNOWING WHO HE WAS OR DOING ONE SHRED OF PORN IN THE INDUSTRY BECAUSE HE WAS SUPPOSED TO SHOOT PHOTOS OF ME I WAS A FETISH AND ADULT MODEL. THE DUDE DRUGGED ME AND DID UNMENTIONABLE THINGS TO ME. I DIDNT EVEN KNOW THAT IT HAPPENED UNTIL THE VIDEO WAS RELEASED AND I IMMEDIATELY SOOK OUT LEGAL ASSISTANCE AND HAD THE SCENE REMOVED FROM THE INTERNET BECAUSE THE JUSTICE SYSTEM DOESNT HELP MUCH WHEN IT COMES TO RAPE UNLESS THERE IS DNA EVIDENCE AND YOU GO IMMEDIATELY. I HAD NO IDEA WHAT HAPPENED UNTIL THE VIDEO CAME OUT. SO F**K YOU FOR EVEN TRYING TO THROW SHADE ABOUT THAT WHEN YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THE F**K YOUR TALKING ABOUT. [/quote] but that isn't the point. I just won't have people bring up something that i FOUGHT TO KEEP quiet and private in a way to attack me for saying that james is a scum bag. [/quote] Wow that is so fucked! Nothing more to add after reading that!
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Dec 14 2015 : 11:25PM
I don't believe that James is a "great guy." In the comment of your's that I replied to, your basic point seems to have been "James' fans only like him because they haven't met and had sex with him. If they did meet him and have sex with him, they'd realize how horrible he is." Actually, we don't know how likely it is that it would be a bad experience for them.
There is another thing I don't know if was factored into things yet. There was talk ( and it was quickly removed ) on a well known and current starlets twitter feed / blog that said there may have been an issue with abuse of hard drugs ( cocaine ) on occasion from a "Male talent in the news." James' name came up quickly but for whatever reason she removed the conversation. Could it be that addictions - esp coke which can lead to really aggressive behavior be a factor here? It could really answer a lot of things. If you or anyone has been around anyone who abuses this drug they can show behavior similar to that described by some of the accusers.
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Canadian_Cindy Deactivated User
1102 Posts 2/15
Posted - Dec 15 2015 : 12:44AM
You make a fair comment so let me re phrase it a bit.... He would have LESS fans if they all met him and had sex with him :)
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Canadian_Cindy Deactivated User
1102 Posts 2/15
Posted - Dec 15 2015 : 12:52AM
Hi Bonnie Mack actually may have been raped or at least attempted to be raped (the story she told was he couldn't get it up) or something a long those lines. Which is still a crime and will be part of his trial if it gets that far. Maybe that will stick maybe it won't; you can not definitively say she wasn't. I would like to know how she was supposed to keep it private? She had to go to the police, and because she was a public figure, it became public. That whole circus with Dog the Bounty Hunter was out of her control. The only thing you can really say was PR was her crowdfunding for medical bills. I felt it was sincere; I can however understand why people were cynical about it. I really think you are being too hard on "using it for PR". We can all connect the dots and see there was more too it and she is not a beacon of light in the whole situation. That doesn't excuse what he did, nor mean we should pile on her. He will be in jail for a long time to pay for them and that is the right thing. If you are critical of her trying to make a living now I don't see what else you expect her to do? She had something bad done to her so she should quit making money because it can only be "PR"? Should people be cynical for you by announcing you are pregnant and saying it is PR to hype up your budding directing career; and that you should have kept it private? Only the most cynical would say that; it is however similar to what you are saying about Mack by accusing her of using life events to make good PR and money. Nice to hear from you and your thoughts. While I am critical of you here in this post, please know I respect you very much and I am just questioning and challenging discussion points. Edited by - Canadian_Cindy on 12/15/2015 12:55:54 AM
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jeffandersonn Deactivated User
1605 Posts 3/13
Posted - Dec 15 2015 : 5:11AM
[asshole post removed] Edited by - Janitor on 12/15/2015 8:25:04 AM
One thing that's missing in this discussion is the fact that people's memories change over time and every time they recall something from the past. This means that you can't even be sure what the facts are, unless you have some recorded evidence, such as voice and video. People genuinely believe that what they remember is the way it actually happened. But this doesn't necessarily mean that it actually happened this way. And this is true for both the accusers and the accused. They might disagree about the facts, not just because somebody is lying, but also because they genuinely remember it differently from each other.
Edited by - Dan on 12/15/2015 6:34:31 AM
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Ben Mockridge Deactivated User
382 Posts 9/15
Posted - Dec 15 2015 : 7:40AM
Cindy and Dan make good points. It would be unfair and dangerous if the reality was that men were held hostage soley to the fickle , arbitary and unilateral judgement of their female accusers. However in reality a womans unsubstantiated version of events is not soley sufficient in establishing the facts and wrongdoing. Inevitably in society at large there will be some people for whom the mere mention of the word rape renders the male in question guilty, as witnessed by these same opinions evident in this topic. At the end of the day people are at liberty to have all kinds of extremist and fanatical viewpoints and all manner of subjects. Ultimately the opinion that counts is the opinion of society as deemed by our legal system, and that judges issues based of all the evidence from all perspectives. Thats what the justice stystem is for. In the GP obviously there are some peole who unquestioningly believe all sexual assault allegations - that is unfortunate but we cannot do much about it and in reality these people holding these opinions do not do any material damage. The time to worry would be if such people were to become so eminent that their extremist ideology actually spread into the judiciary so that the legal system and even the law itself was changed to reflect their opinion that a womans allegation of rape is primafacia proof of rape with no further substantiation required , nor subject to any higher standard of scrutiny. Scary times to be a guy if it did ever come to pass.
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06
Posted - Dec 15 2015 : 9:13AM
I'd also like to point out that even those people who have jumped to a definitive conclusion (that Deen is definitely innocent, or that he's definitely guilty) didn't necessarily arrive at their conclusion just because twitter told them to or because they had some social agenda that lead them to their conclusion in spite of the facts. Are there examples of that very thing here? Of course. But just because one person that insists Deen is guilty is some man hating feminist who is out to figuratively castrate the male gender, doesn't mean that everyone who reached that conclusion believes that. Are there people on here who think Deen is guilty just because of some twitter campaign against him? Probably. But not everyone lives and dies by what twitter says. Do some people on here insist that Deen is innocent simply because all them man-hatin feminists are makin up accusations because they're man-hatin feminists? Yeah, it seems pretty clear some do. But that doesn't mean everyone that thinks Deen is innocent believes that. It isn't fair to either side to cherry pick the worst examples from the opposition and paint all of the opposition with that broad brush. That said, I don't expect people to have their opinions held hostage by a flawed legal system. The idea that society should blindly agree with the legal system completely ignores the fact that our legal system has some serious flaws, especially in cases like this. With the laws written as they are, many instances of rape are effectively legal, the one Stoya alleges is one of them. Sure it is technically a crime, but in a case where the encounter begins as consensual and then goes past the line, in the absence of any 3rd party witnesses or recordings, it is literally impossible to expect a conviction because of the presumed innocence of the accused. So because of the way the laws are written and the impossibility of a conviction am I supposed to believe that these types of crimes are simply never committed? Am I not allowed to recognize that while the legal system has hamstrung itself in certain instances (and I'm not saying that it isn't hamstrung for a good reason) that I can't look past that? Am I not allowed to look at what a horrible job the prosecution did in the Simpson trial, what a terrible job the police did securing the crime scene, collecting evidence and in some cases tampering with it and think that following the letter of the law, a conviction for OJ was pretty much impossible despite the fact every rational human being I know believes the evidence indicates that he did it? Blind faith is the enemy of rational thought. Don't put blind faith in a flawed legal system.
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Ben Mockridge Deactivated User
382 Posts 9/15
Posted - Dec 15 2015 : 9:39AM
Decent post Murdock. I am convinced, although in the case of a he said she/said rape trial where nothing can definitively be established ; in looking beyond the shortcomings of our existing legal system to some alternative that can cope better please elaborate what you have in mind. If your supporting Twitter as a forum for making unsubstantiated allegations then i say this ; The problem with advocating twitter as a forum whereby persons who have been failed (for lack of a better word) by the conventional legal system lies counterintuitively in the very efficacy of this twitter method. Insofar as people are so stupid (for lack of a better word) that they will believe anything and everything and therein lies the problem of it potentially/easily being abused, innocents accused , lives destroyed, with zero scrutiny. Would you like it if some mad person accused you of rape on twitter , No , neither would i. If people judged twitter allegations with the same discernment as a court then i would have no problem with it but that unfortunately , as is clearly evident is not the case - its lynching by internet. Edited by - ben mockridge on 12/15/2015 9:40:27 AM
^ I agree with not jumping to conclusions. But not deciding one way or the other means that you can have so much doubt that you might want to stay away from porn altogether, just in case somebody is right. Not jumping to conclusions doesn't really resolve a problem like this. The only way to resolve such a problem is to have independent records and witnesses for making porn-scenes. The porn industry needs to change the way it conducts its business to prevent this kind of accusations in the future, or at least resolve such accusations quickly one way or the other by presenting the evidence that they have.
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06
Posted - Dec 15 2015 : 10:20AM
^^ I don't have a solution to the problem. I don't think an obvious one exists, at least none that don't involve some sort of compromise that I'm not comfortable with. That said, even in the absence of a solution I think its still important to identify and acknowledge these sorts of problems so that they can eventually be fixed. The root of the issue is the distinction between some scenario being a crime or not is the perspective of the accuser. And that is a difficult thing to prove. But if we leave the rape example for a moment and look at something that isn't as emotionally charged, like robbery. Let's say that I accuse Ben of stealing some money from me. (the amount doesn't matter) The police question Ben and he says that he does have the money but he didn't steal it, I gave it to him. With no other witnesses to the transaction, its just my word against Ben's and Ben isn't denying that he has the money. (Sound familiar?) So what happens legally in a case like this? (It's not a rhetorical question, I'm seriously asking) As far as twitter goes, I'm not really concerned about it one way or the other. "Lynching by Twitter" hyperbolic as it may be, amounts to nothing more that playground insults and taunting. And Twitter also tends to have the attention span of a ferret that's been drinking espressos with redbull chasers. As soon as the next "shiny thing" comes along all of that horrible twitter outrage will focus on a new target and the accused will be soon forgotten. That's not to say I'm advocating for trial by twitter, but I have no issue with people expressing their opinions on that forum or any other.
Ben, based on the way you write, I'm assuming you have some level of education. How can you compare 9 women accusing the same man of various degrees of sexual assault to a black man being beaten and hung to death simply for being black with the thinnest of pretenses ("That white woman says that he [blank]") as an excuse? Have you read the contemporary reporting of lynchings in which the murders were described in the same manner as the euthanizing of a an animal? ("The brute was executed in a humane manner.") Why don't you contact and ask Ron Van Clief - who was beaten nearly to death, hung, and survived to to tell about it, all for refusing to sit in the back of a bus in 1964 - if he thinks that James Deen being accused of rape on twitter is the same as a lynching? Edited by - bossanova on 12/15/2015 11:08:54 AM Edited by - bossanova on 12/15/2015 11:15:48 AM
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Ben Mockridge Deactivated User
382 Posts 9/15
Posted - Dec 15 2015 : 11:19AM
^Ok scrub lynching by internet and substitute whatever you think more suitable. The words used are less importance than the meaning conveyed.
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06
Posted - Dec 15 2015 : 11:54AM
Ben, Perhaps you could just explain what you mean by "Twitter Lynching" instead of trying to have someone else define it for you. Specifically what you think that term means, and ideally what the repercussions of that entail.
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Ben Mockridge Deactivated User
382 Posts 9/15
Posted - Dec 15 2015 : 12:05PM
"lynching by internet" is the phrase used. Lynching as defined by Wikipedia : "Lynching is an extrajudicial punishment by an informal group" So "lynching by internet" would be along the lines of an extrajudicial punishment by an informal group on the internet. Which is kinda the meaning i was going for.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Dec 15 2015 : 12:06PM
The assumption that any man who is accused of a sex crime is guilty is not relegated to Twitter or any other corner of the internet/culture. It's any idea that has been taken up by large segments of the media and its promotion by prominent feminist leaders such as Jessica Valenti (whom I once admired) has had a major impact on the thinking of many in the feminist movement. Anyone who believes that this hasn't had real world consequences should watch KC Johnson's Ohio University lecture "Abandoning Due Process: Campus Sexual Assault and Presumptions of Guilt" which can be found on YouTube under the title "George Washington Forum 16 FEB 2015." This is a lot bigger than the Twittersphere. Edited by - misspornUSA on 12/15/2015 12:07:12 PM EDIT: Johnson gave a more recent talk on the subject titled "Prof KC Johnson on Sexual Assault Policy on College Campus." Again, we need to realize that the mentality I described - males accused of sex crimes are guilty - is not just some silly Twitterverse issue. It can, is, and will ruin people's lives offline as long as it continues to gain steam. Edited by - misspornUSA on 12/15/2015 2:41:14 PM
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sparrow55 Deactivated User
82 Posts 11/15
Posted - Dec 15 2015 : 12:23PM
I am not sure why you two have so much hate for one another. Anyway, there is a rumor that you beat a dog to death in Cincinnati ... Is it true ? maybe people should bring this issue up when you are in situation that needs positive PR. Edit : Obviously, @bonnierotten does not believe @christymack .. If the twitter militia finds out about it, I wonder if they will turn against her. Edited by - sparrow55 on 12/15/2015 12:55:06 PM
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Dec 15 2015 : 12:27PM
^Off-topic.
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sparrow55 Deactivated User
82 Posts 11/15
Posted - Dec 15 2015 : 12:35PM
You have the patience of a saint..
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sparrow55 Deactivated User
82 Posts 11/15
Posted - Dec 15 2015 : 12:52PM
Like her comments on the James Deen situation ? I guess I am trying to say is that it seems to me that she used the accusation incident to settle a personal grudge with him. People are counting her among the victims.
Merriam-Webster: lynch verb \ˈlinch : to kill (someone) illegally as punishment for a crime I don't think your definition holds up, figuratively speaking, much less literally or historically. Wikipedia is also not a reliable source. I think you're looking for something closer to "witch-hunt," or probably "mob justice." And don't get me wrong: I agree with your sentiment that Twitter should not be judge and jury or replace due process. But using "lynching by internet" as a description of what is happening does a disservice to people who have actually been lynched. Words have specific, individual meanings for a reason, and we need to respect those definitions in order to actually have an intelligent conversation. Edited by - bossanova on 12/15/2015 1:33:40 PM Edited by - bossanova on 12/15/2015 1:45:25 PM
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Dec 15 2015 : 1:33PM
No. What kind of person Deen is can hardly be said to be off-topic.She has not asked anyone to count her among Deen's alleged victims, and has corrected those who chose to mischaracterize her account.
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Ben Mockridge Deactivated User
382 Posts 9/15
Posted - Dec 15 2015 : 1:48PM
I agree we are all accountable for the responsible use of language. In this case myself. Wikipedia was just the first entry when i searched for lynching. For me use of the word lynching is not a loaded term or sensitive issue but i appreciate for others it might be and as you say on closer look it does have a more specific meaning which differs from how i am applying it (to kill without legal trial, usually by hanging). Witch hunt isnt really my intent - more like mob vigilantism - do you want me to change it or what. I acknowledge your point.
I added "mob justice" as an edit but I think it was while you were posting this. I think that would be the most accurate term as well. I don't want you to change anything that you've already posted. (I think the record of the discussion is important as well) I appreciate the acknowledgement. I thought about things myself and realized that my main beef was with the poster who directly compared James Deen to Emmett Till (I don't think that was you?), and that you just happened to use "lynching" as a figurative term after that. You seem like a reasonable person. Be well.
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06
Posted - Dec 15 2015 : 2:23PM
Do you think that is on par with say life in prison? More to the point why should twitter be held to the same standard as the justice system when it clearly doesn't have the authority of the justice system? I'm just curious what you think is okay or not okay. Can I say Deen is a rapist on Twitter? Can I say I think Deen is a rapist on Twitter? Can I say it's likely that Deen is a rapist on Twitter? Can I say I think it's likely that Deen is a rapist on Twitter?
Murdoch - i will reply by pm. I am happy to reply but i do not want to disrupt this topic with a tedious back and forth between you and i which the moderators have previously warned other people against doing. I will pm idc.
I just know many women generally handle these things on the back end or legally instead of doing interviews Etc about them. I mentioned before I was wrong for saying what I said and honestly I don't give a shit about it any longer to add my 2 cents. As for my pregnancy being a PR Move? I still am actively directing, releasing films and having things to push in the adult realm. So me updating my social media with something that is a major factor in my life has nothing to do with "PR" it has everything to do with staying active with my fans. PR would be me doing interviews etc and twisting or putting a spin on my pregnancy for attention. I've done none of that so get your facts straight. Morons on here I swear.
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06
Posted - Dec 15 2015 : 5:53PM
^ Look I get that you've got your agenda that you want to push, and that's fine, I don't really care, but I'd appreciate if you would do it without piggybacking off of my posts which have little if anything to do with what you're talking about. That's twice you've brought up a completely different point in response to something I was saying. Please don't make it a third.
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negro_of_record Deactivated User
100 Posts 12/15
Posted - Dec 15 2015 : 8:02PM
I would assume this has come up more than once, and I see a new thread about the degrading of women. When porn starting to embrace, fish hooking and spitting and slapping I knew it wouldn't be long before either, A, talent got out of hands, B, the industry attracted new talent that would bring an abusive, if not disrespectful element to the industry that it didn't need. Kudos to Stoya for coming forward and shame on James for even being put in the position of being accused.
James Deen @ Adult Empire
Posted - Dec 14 2015 : 7:13PM
