Lisa Ann was a talent agency owner. That statement could have been made by any number of people. I am not going to rehash it here, but Lisa Ann has been involved in some high-profile disputes with more than one person within the industry.
1) Made clickable above 2) Asphyxia Noir's arguments are not 100% alien from that of "the Adult Industry Vet" and that of Casey Calvert, thus belying the argument that Eli Cross composed both of the latter pieces in drag.
My point is that Casey has now claimed many of those arguments. If you want to put a face to them, you now have one (that's irregardless of who I think wrote the e-mail, by the way). Edited by - whatsatelephonebill on 12/5/2015 10:43:05 PM
Again, these arguments are not a patented-protected, super-secret formula-level kind of intellectual work product like the Manhattan project, E=MCsquared or the detection of the Higgs-Boson Particle. They could be made/claimed/adapted/aped by any number of people. Asphyxia Noir, as linked to just above, has made a lot of the same arguments. In fact, earlier in this thread, there is a link to an AVN article by Julia Ann which makes many of the same arguments, most particularly about Trial By Twitter. There is also a link to a Tweet by Mike Quasar which sarcastically expresses thanks that Twitter has replaced the Bill of Rights as the basis for criminal trials in America. Edited by - White1970DodgeChallenger on 12/5/2015 10:51:32 PM
The post on therealpornwikileaks says they removed the name before posting. It does not say that the person wrote it anonymously. "This was sent to me by several people..Im posting without naming the person who wrote it..As one half of Prestige Worldwide said, this isn’t just some guy.Im leaving the name off as I wasn’t sent this, it came to me 2nd hand..If the person who signed their name to it chooses to come forward so be it.. There are many opinions on this, and when one pops up that’s interesting I’m gonna run it..Posting this doesn’t mean I’m endorsing it, its just an alternative to the norm"
Fair enough. The thing is, given Eli's history of openly airing his beefs with people via his blog and via posting here on ADT--and the fact that he has been a good friend and collaborator of Amber Rayne's for over a decade now--that e-mail simply does not sound like something he would write.
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06
Posted - Dec 5 2015 : 10:58PM
Okay then why are we even talking about the anonymous Industry Vet's rant if Casey is making the same arguments? In fact, let's look at what Casey (didn't) write:It's unfortunate that she feels afraid of backlash. Ironic since that's how many rape victims say they feel to with regards to reporting their allegations to the authorities.Um okay.If it weren't for the court of public opinion we wouldn't be talking about any of these things. It would still be the industry's biggest secret that everybody knew.That's a perfectly reasonable stance to take. No reason why you shouldn't be allowed to state that.Yes, I suppose they do. I don't think that was ever really in question. but the issue isn't whether women make things up. The issue is whether Stoya made a very particular thing up.Do I get to play the apologist "it doesn't count if she didn't report it to the authorities" card here, or would I be out of line to suggest that possibly the alleged incident with Deen wasn't the first time she'd been raped? Or perhaps I can just point out that while her past actions can hurt her credibility, it doesn't automatically mean she's lying about Deen, nor does it mean that the other women who keep coming forward are lying either.Of course you are. If he's your friend, I think most reasonable people would understand feeling compassion for your friend.It isn't ugly yet? Why is it out of line to say his breakup with Stoya was tumultuous? Aren't a lot of breakups? Wasn't this pretty common knowledge anyway?Of course you can say that. I'm not sure what it proves though. I guess you could say that he's capable of maintaining boundaries, but I think that most people who are functional in society are to at least some degree. I don't think even the most aggressive Deen detractors are suggesting that he was some sort of unstoppable rape machine that raped everyone he encountered, every time he encountered them. I obeyed the speed limit on the way home from the grocery store earlier in the evening. That doesn't mean that I've never broken the speed limit though.As noted by another poster previously, that sounds like a pretty broad indictment of the entire porn industry. If what you say is true, I'd rather live in a world with no porn.Of course you can say that. Kudos for having a good relationship with him.Same response.Regardless of what the boundary is, be it sexual or violent, I don't think it's acceptable to cross those boundaries. Not all of the accusations against Deen are rape accusations. some are just simple assault. While in one way, I guess you could describe that as "better" I don't think you can write these other accusations off as James "having a dark side."I think that part was pretty clear already.How very meta of you.On the off chance any of the accusations have a grain of truth to them, yeah it is pretty selfish.Clever. So to sum it up, Casey is sticking up for Deen basically as a character witness (which is fine) and lobbing out a lot of innuendo regarding Stoya without actually making any direct accusations, that have little bearing on the discussion. Yeah, making rape accusations on Twitter isn't the greatest thing in the world, but I'll still take that over a bunch of vague blog accusations designed to do the exact thing she's bitching about.
I'm not actually saying that I agree with the arguments. I'm saying that the 3 basic arguments in the e-mail regarding Stoya are that this isn't the first time she's cried rape:That it was a bad breakup:And that she hired him for a scene weeks after they broke up:And Casey presented the same arguments in her blog post. Sometimes going into less detail (the breakup, the past allegations). Sometimes going into more (the scene). But the same 3 arguments. Edit: And after I typed up all that, I now realize that you actually aren't disagreeing with me. My bad. I'll leave the post up anyway. Edited by - whatsatelephonebill on 12/5/2015 11:58:50 PM
Gianna Michaels recently did a Reddit IAmA where some fan asked her what was her opinion about the James Deen polemic. She has no opinion about it, but says all the scenes she did with him, she was very polite and respectful.
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06
Posted - Dec 6 2015 : 12:02AM
Yeah, I don't think we're that far apart on the topic. I'd just prefer to deal with the statements of people that are on the record, not anonymously forwarded emails by nameless insiders, especially when we have someone on the record saying mostly the same thing.
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manish88 Deactivated User
55 Posts 5/13
Posted - Dec 6 2015 : 12:13AM
Only an idiot would believe that someone who was raping pornstars, turning normal B/g scenes into Anal scenes was active in the industry for so long. I mean how stupid is that?
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06
Posted - Dec 6 2015 : 12:24AM
It's funny you should say that. I find it interesting that you and another adamant Deen defender in this thread have both been prolific posters in not [ invalid url ] but [ invalid url ] threads on here that basically fetishize that very thing.How stupid indeed.
James Deen is the best and my favorite male performer.But I didn't expect so negative things about him for so many girls.I don't know what to think.But I am with James
Let me clear up a few things about the "Industry Vet." I'm one of the people who received his e-mail. It went out yesterday, and I spoke to him yesterday and texted with him today. It isn't Casey Calvert, the guy's the real deal, and a genuine insider who knows all the players personally. We might question his conclusions, but no one I know in the biz questions his info. I'm posting here under a new account because I don't have his permission to discuss this, but I can also see there are a bunch of questions that maybe I can clear up. Also, I'm a pussy and don't want to get dragged into this debate publicly. I will say a lot of us male talent are scared. What the Industry Vet says is true; every one of us have girls out there who hate us, and we're terrified to see what they could do with a single tweet. No one ever gave James a chance to tell his side. Minutes after Stoya posted it was case closed. He did it. Scary shit. So, the email. The guy who wrote it never intended it to go public. Someone sent it to Sean at TRPWL and he posted it anonymously. He also pulled out a link to the video that's mentioned, and some insider info about James and Joanna that would have given away who the author was. Since it went up, Aurora Snow has been trying to contact the author (he's not stupid enough to trust her to give him a fair shake) and a buddy of mine at TMZ wanted to track him down. I texted to ask him to claim the e-mail. I'll post exactly his reply. "I never intended that e-mail to go wide; it was a call to action, not a public discourse. Now that it has, it seems there's a bit more momentum to at least discuss the notion that Bryan was declared guilty the second Stoya tweeted. Third-wave feminism be damned, that is NOT okay. He never had a chance. However, I'm not going to claim authorship. As it stands, anonymous, it has the power to drive discussion and get people thinking and doubting. If I claim it, the discussion then becomes about ME rather than facts presented. And, as stated, the argument will be that what I have to say is utterly invalid simply because I have testicles. Leave it be." I had to google third-wave feminism LOL. Not gonna side with either party since I also have testicles, but I will tell you guys the author is friends with James Deen and WAS friends with Amber Rayne until this happened. Also, to whoever posted the thing about Amber posting pictures of where she is and what she's doing... that's his point. Often those pictures are a total lie. She'll tell one person she's in New York, someone else she driving to San Francisco, someone else she's in Seattle, all on the same day. It's weird, but she lies about the strangest stuff. We just found out all the Facebook stuff about her puppy getting attacked by a coyote was BS. Never happened. Why lie about that? Anyway, that's the deal. I'll lurk, maybe answer questions, but I'm not going to out myself or the writer or field "guesses." Just giving you some insight.
^Just curious, why do you think so many women came forward to ruin his career? Assuming he's innocent, I can understand why a couple angry exes want to tear him down, but why so many others, including one who's a "friend"? That's the part that makes it so puzzling.
I don't think you really understand the appeal of getting written up in mainstream press for porn girls. Especially nobodies like Kora Peters or Tori Lux. Ashley Fires is always pretty indignant about stuff. Also, she's primarily a hooker, so keeping her name in the public eye is a big deal to her. Still, the story she described could totally happen. People on porn sets DO flirt. If James thought she was flirting and acted, then went away when she said no, I don't really see the big deal. Amber is just a little off these days. But the point the author makes is valid; she continued the scene. I think it's interesting she's not complaing about all the other times she got hurt doing rough scenes. She broke her jaw working for Evil Angel. She tore her butt a lot, because she wouldn't stop. She always wanted to finish the scene. But this time it's James's fault? As for the Kora Peters story, you all realize if male talent tries to "steal" anal he doesn't get hired anymore, right? Because that costs the company more money. NOBODY on set wants the girl to do anal if she's booked for B/G. It costs more. And when I read the high-fiving thing I laughed. It's retarded. No fucking way that happened. I just think people don't understand how physical what we do is. I've been bitten, bruised, scratched, had my foreskin torn. I got a stilletto in the eye and couldn't work fort a week. It isn't "assault." The author is right: Porn is a full-contact sport. We're all saying it now.
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Dec 6 2015 : 4:32AM
Only a matter of time before anti-Semitism was added to the toxic brew here. One poster already hinted at it but was careful from coming right out and saying it in classic dog whistle style.
i have been following the story for a while and see this as nothing but a power struggle between James Deen VS Buringangel/Stoya. Also more media focus on the matter and the fact that many major companies cut their ties with James Deen seem to benefit Stoya's side. All in all, this is one of these private revenges played out in social media to see who is more powerful/popular than the other.
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Dec 6 2015 : 5:10AM
Joanna Angel is Jewish and has come out with stories of his assaults on her. Oh, there goes your cosmic coincidence shot to shit as usual, I guess you can return to The Protocols of the Elders of Zion to find some rationalization to justify your paranoid conspiracy bullshit.
But Lisa Ann defended him! But an industry vet is standing beside him! If this actually happened why'd she ever hesistate to tell her story at that moment? How dumb am i saying this? how disgusting am i while justifying this? even more disgusting than him
lol, as if i made it up. Actually it can be used it as a defense/ "anti-semitism" this looks great and many fans would follow up with it sorry i disappointed in believing in your claimed conspiracy & prejudice as the only logical conspiracy i see her is many mature women trying to harm a man reputation by rape accusation
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06
Posted - Dec 6 2015 : 6:30AM
Hooray! More anonymous claims to back up the other anonymous claims. Golly, if we're lucky maybe someone can come on and anonymously vouch for you anonymously vouching for the guy making anonymous statements in an email that was evidently never supposed to go public. If we can't trust that, what can we trust, amaright?
^ Talking about the past is a waste of time, unless the purpose of this talk is to find ways of preventing such problems in the future. This forum isn't a court of law. And the discussion here about whom to believe more doesn't make any difference. The porn industry needs a new way to prevent such disputes and accusations from arising in the future. And that's what people here should be talking about now, instead of wasting their breath on issues where their opinions make no difference. Regardless whom you choose to believe or disbelieve, the porn industry needs a better way to show the woman's consent throughout the scene, so that there is no doubt about it afterwards. And one way to do it is have the woman actively participate in the sex she is having, rather than have her being passive and acting only as receptacle for her guy's desires. The sex needs to be a constant two-way interaction, rather than one-way action. Because it's this one-way action, without any response from the lady, that leads to doubt about whether the woman consents to it or not.
^ This tweet talks about deceptive and misleading contracts that unscrupulous agents persuade porn-stars to sign. But this is a problem with general contract law and not just the porn-industry. Because contracts like this shouldn't have any standing in court and shouldn't be enforceable by anyone. It's bad government law that enables and condones such use of contracts. And this bad contract law isn't just a problem in the porn industry. Many websites and online companies, for example, routinely get you to agree to terms and conditions that span many pages in fine print. Most people agreeing to these terms have little or no idea what they are actually agreeing too. But these contracts have the force of law anyway. Which means that the law itself is the problem here. Such contracts shouldn't be allowed at all, instead of being protected and enforced by law.
Edited by - Dan on 12/6/2015 6:59:59 AM
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IkeMan Deactivated User
40 Posts 12/15
Posted - Dec 6 2015 : 7:02AM
double - Edited by - IkeMan on 12/6/2015 7:09:35 AM
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IkeMan Deactivated User
40 Posts 12/15
Posted - Dec 6 2015 : 7:09AM
In fact it is, except from the perspective of pseudo-progressive wannabe-feminists (so called "sex-positive feminists" which is another hollow term with no actual meaning), who are actually in fact just standard sluts, that differ from standard sluts just in one aspect: they try to rationalize and intellectualize their whorish behavior.What does anti-Semitism have to do with it? Is Joana Angel wrong about revealing "James Deen" his problematic behavior, because one shouldn't talk negatively about a person, if a person happens to be of Jewish identity? Isn't Joana Angel of Jewish identity herself? I think the jiddish word schmock very accurately describes "James Deen" his character.
Click to expand
I would guess that Asphyxia Noir is more knowledgeable on the subject than you are. In her statement she says (referring to "Stoya"): "Going into a relationship especially when BOTH parties go above and beyond what common sexual interaction is considered to be you kind of have very little room for lines to be deeply crossed." http://reviewermag.net/press/2015/12/03/asphyxia-noir-in-defense-of-james-deen/ Voodoo has the following to say: "In the last few years the porn industry has become a lot more hardcore and violent not because of demand from the public, but because of the sick twisted fantasies of a few sociopathic directors who claim that their work is art! James Deen has simply lost himself to this new genre of treating women like garbage therefore leaving him unable to to discerns when the line has been crossed. Rape scenes should have never been allowed to be shot in the porn industry. It's creating monsters and an unsafe environment for female performers". I guess my thesis about the blurring of lines, that I referred to a couple of times, is not totally unsubstantiated. Those who were proclaiming that rapey porn is not a problem and that the line between consensual rapey sex and actual rape is as clear as a line could be: take it from industry veterans, who know their stuff, if you tend to not take forum members seriously. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CVCXi0hUAAI3xWa.jpg:large
On Gianna Michaels, honestly I couldn't see someone, especially James Deen, doing anything abusive or inappropriate with her. Anyone that has seen her scenes or has observed her strong-willed personality would know that she wouldn't let that happen and if it did she certainly wouldn't stay quiet about it. The most logical explanation to me in this whole James Deen situation is that he is generally a very good and respected performer, but he can knowingly or unknowingly misread what women want sexually and approach or even cross the line. This might be the product of the types of scenes he performs in, the fact that porn has been steadily becoming more and more "extreme" to attract viewers and I think this can somewhat warp the psychology of performers particularly males if they already lack a bit in the empathy department to begin with. The idea that James, who according to 1-2 other performers, has emotionally abused women in relationships in the past reflects that lack of empathy. At this point, I don't think James is a "rapist" but it seems that he has crossed the line with some performers and in some relationships mostly emotionally and because of one particularly nasty breakup there has been a pile on effect to get back at him for every single thing some maybe not even true.
MOD: Everyone needs to consider the forum etiquette when posting. This needs to remain civil. Make sure the things you are posting are something you would say in public to someone else. And the anti-Semitic posting is to cease now superdzgfx. Keep your hatred to yourself.
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ultimate_sperminator Deactivated User
837 Posts 12/12
Posted - Dec 6 2015 : 10:43AM
Maybe Deen was frustrated by todays quality in US porn. Back in the days he used to shoot gangbangs or blowbangs all the time and maybe this is why he got way of too much sexual energy on sets nowadays.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Dec 6 2015 : 11:14AM
The opposite is true.He needs to name names, because I honestly don't know who the hell he is talking about.What new genre?What are the studios which consistently shoot rape-fetish porn? It's an honest question, because I can only think of Psycho Thrillers. Even Kink has been moving away from rape scenarios in the last couple of years, and 2012 (Pornstars Punishemnt) was the last time we really saw a mainstream studio shooting that kind of content.
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06
Posted - Dec 6 2015 : 12:14PM
^ Credit to you Sir, for at least understanding the ridiculousness of it all. I certainly understand that you and your insider friend may very well have your reasons for remaining anonymous, but you get a big thumbs up for me from being able to see it from the other perspective. Would be nice if we were all better about that.
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klies Deactivated User
1733 Posts 5/09
Posted - Dec 6 2015 : 12:18PM
I believe every male performer has at some point crossed the line but as Casey said that doesn't make them a rapist.
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06
Posted - Dec 6 2015 : 12:26PM
^ If "the line" is "consent" then yes it does. Just because you refuse to acknowledge the definition of rape doesn't mean the rest of us have to. Edited by - murdock on 12/6/2015 12:26:49 PM
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06
Posted - Dec 6 2015 : 12:41PM
Could I ask what "the line" is and what it's relevance is to the conversation or should I just save us the trouble of you trying to dodge the question for 20 posts, and just go ahead and point out that what you're attempting is an [ invalid url ]? (since it looks like you're going down the "if we call Deen a rapist, we have to call all the male talent rapists" road)
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klies Deactivated User
1733 Posts 5/09
Posted - Dec 6 2015 : 12:54PM
MOD: A few posts above I said everyone should read the forum etiquette. You didn't read this paragraph obviously. Adult DVD Talk is a Friendly Community Treat fellow posters as neighbors. Please be respectful of each other and each other's threads. If what someone has posted angers you, wait until you calm down before you respond or simply don't respond. Think before posting. Trolling (baiting people by intentionally posting inflammatory messages) or incessantly harping on an issue/person will lead to the deactivation of your account. At this point, if you can't follow etiquette, the post is getting deleted in full. Moderators don't have the time to start editing out the insults being thrown in here. Edited by - flash on 12/6/2015 1:27:59 PM
James Deen @ AEBN
Posted - Dec 5 2015 : 10:28PM
