Stoya accuses James Deen of rape (page 36)

Author	Post
Melvyn Senior Member 2797 Posts 12/12	Posted - Jan 22 2016 : 11:09AM BlackSix wrote: @Melvyn, I already explained why Wikipedia is not a good source for political information, the sites is constanty manipulated by opposing sides editing out sourced material they don't like. I've experienced this myself a few times when I added some sourced material and found it edited out again and again until I gave up.What you see there is not the result of vetting, it is the result of attrition. Wikipedia has even moved to close off certain political entries from outsidr editing because of this. In fact most of Wikipedia is dominated by groups of editors. Wikipedia is a great source for TV shows and comic books, politics, not so much. Click to expand All I was talking about was defining 3rd wave feminism. Where is the bias in the entry by Wiki which I linked? Someone can allude to or imply or insinuate there is some nefarious bias or mild manipulation at play, but unless you're going to specifically describe the conflict in ideas, this is pointless. It would be like dismissing any information at any time for any reason on the basis that nothing can be truly objective. At that rate, how can we trust anything? BlackSix wrote: @Melvyn, I already explained why Wikipedia is not a good source for political information, the sites is constanty manipulated by opposing sides editing out sourced material they don't like. Click to expand So basically it's like any courtroom proceeding in the justice system. The whole point of that constant battle is to keep any one side from having their version, no? It's not perfect, but what else do you propose when everyone is going to just dismiss any information anywhere else as biased anyway? The example of the number one export of the USA being revised is really that much of a scandal? What should it be? Is the current revision wrong? What is wrong about the entry on 3rd wave feminism, or the entry on the different waves of feminism? What specifically? Can we try getting to it? Did I post an outdated revision? Is that the issue? We need to get to some specific conflict before making broad, sweeping assertions about credibility. So far, I don't know what that conflict is, because no one has even bothered suggesting at why that Wiki entry on the waves of feminism is inaccurate. And out of curiosity, what entry were you trying to edit and what information did you want to log on it which got scrubbed? Edited by - Melvyn on 1/22/2016 11:10:20 AM [Link]
FlacFan Deactivated User 10088 Posts 8/15	Posted - Jan 22 2016 : 11:13AM "The Candy Machine By The Men's Room Is Out Of Order!" BOYCOTT ANY STUDIO THAT USES JAMES DEEN! Boycott James Deen, Silicone Is Evil, Razors Aren't Much Better [Link]
Melvyn Senior Member 2797 Posts 12/12	Posted - Jan 22 2016 : 11:14AM misspornUSA wrote: ^As far as I'm concerned, all news is biased propaganda beginning at a very basic level: What are we going to report, what aren't we going to report. That's a narrative question. All news cannot be reported, so the media will inevitably choose which stories to report according to the narrative they wish to give to the public. That also controls which stories are reported earlier in the broadcast or on what page of the newspaper they are printed, not to mention how in-depth and comprehensive the reports of each individual story are. What footage is chosen for any given story? Narrative. How many "experts" will be invited to talk on this or that issue and how are they selected? Narrative. Of course all of this is not just true of the news media. Take documentaries for example. All are biased, all are propaganda. I remember when "Jesus Camp", a documentary about a Pentecostal youth camp, was released it was highly praised for it's lack of talking heads and for just letting the footage speak for itself. How naïve. I actually like that documentary and am glad that it was well received, but viewers and critics should have asked themselves why the specific footage they were seeing survived the edit and other footage didn't. Furthermore, the criticisms by Pentecostal theologians and other Pentecostal experts that the choice to not contextualize some of the seemingly bizarre religious practices captured in the documentary was itself a biased narrative choice. On the other hand, what did those Pentecostals expect? The necessity of narrative will inevitably kick in, and within that lies bias and propaganda. So I'm not surprised when a headline that eating bacon is as bad as smoking cigarettes turns out to be nonsense, or when the claim by the paper of record that “1 in 4 Women Experience Sex Assault on Campus” is revealed to be bullshit. Why would I be? Stories like that are just part of the narrative those news organizations are trying to sell to the public, and the sooner we recognize that bias and propaganda are inherent in news media the sooner we can become more cautious about taking so much of the news that we hear and read at face value. Edited by - misspornUSA on 12/19/2015 11:56:20 AM Click to expand [Link]
misspornUSA Senior Member I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13	Posted - Jan 22 2016 : 11:28AM Melvyn wrote: The world is pretty quick to forgive. I remember reading reports that Cosby was still playing to sold out theaters in the wake of the first major headlines breaking about his scandals and allegations. It was months into the controversy too. In time Deen will be forgiven, unless he does something even more stupid. Click to expand Though I've since changed my mind, I was not one of those who immediately assumed that Cosby was guilty of one or more of the allegations. I'd assume that the people who went to see him felt the same way. There are also those who racialize all of this and see Cosby as an innocent victim. Either way, there's no forgiveness involved if you don't think a person is guilty to begin with. Do porn consumers generally view as Deen as not being guilty? It may not matter anyway, since especially after the LAPD raid Deen means negative attention. [Link]

FlacFan Deactivated User 10088 Posts 8/15	Posted - Jan 22 2016 : 11:35AM Of course you can't trust the media anymore. They advance the agenda of the people who pay them. The only reason fox altered it's format was due to declining ratings, not because rupe had a change of heart. FYI: Since 99.9% of what happens is beyond your control, what difference does it make if you know about it? Try not watching or reading the news for a week, you may be surprised at how much happier you are. IMO, last news person you could believe wasn't lying to you was Mr. Cronkite. BOYCOTT ANY STUDIO OR SITE THAT HIRES JAMES DEEN. IF YOU SUPPORT THAT STUDIO OR SITE, YOU SUPPORT HIM [Link]
murdock Member I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06	Posted - Jan 22 2016 : 11:35AM Melvyn wrote: Why are you saying "if any of the allegations are true" and then making an assertion based on the premise that he was caught? Click to expand Because I'm phrasing it based on the presumption of innocence in this country yet giving a hypothetical where guilt is assumed. I don't know whether he's innocent or guilty so I prefaced my statement accordingly. IF any of the allegations are true, then he has already been "caught" "discovered" "outed" or whatever you want to call it. (I'm not addressing if the allegations aren't true because it isn't pertinent to the point I'm making, nor to the point I'm replying to) How is this clear at all "even when he does get caught"? No real consequences even when he does get caught? Huh? Click to expand And no I don't think there has been any significant consequences thus far. He's still participating in the industry basically as if nothing has happened. Yeah he can't work with a few studios. Plenty of other performers have been dropped by studios for far less than what Deen's been accused of. He's still showing up at industry events. It's all basically blown over. There have been real consequences already even though he wasn't caught, but just based on the accusations. Did the companies that publicly condemned him and announced dropping ties with him publicly change their positions and I just missed it or something? Click to expand The consequences he's faced thus far don't even remotely begin to fit the crime. Performers that have shown up to work drunk have been treated worse by the industry. If you think what he's been accused of isn't as bad as showing up on set drunk then I suppose your sentiment makes sense. I just disagree with that rationalization. It would appear that things have gotten as bad as their going to get for Deen and they aren't really that bad. So what would be his motivation to stop raping and assualting women (again presuming the allegations are true) when there was no fallout thus far? You think more studios might drop him? you seriously think that after multiple accusations of sexual assault, rape and abuse already that one more would make a difference to a studio that is still working with him now? [Link]
misspornUSA Senior Member I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13	Posted - Jan 22 2016 : 11:37AM Melvyn wrote: misspornUSA wrote: ^As far as I'm concerned, all news is biased propaganda beginning at a very basic level: What are we going to report, what aren't we going to report. That's a narrative question. All news cannot be reported, so the media will inevitably choose which stories to report according to the narrative they wish to give to the public. That also controls which stories are reported earlier in the broadcast or on what page of the newspaper they are printed, not to mention how in-depth and comprehensive the reports of each individual story are. What footage is chosen for any given story? Narrative. How many "experts" will be invited to talk on this or that issue and how are they selected? Narrative. Of course all of this is not just true of the news media. Take documentaries for example. All are biased, all are propaganda. I remember when "Jesus Camp", a documentary about a Pentecostal youth camp, was released it was highly praised for it's lack of talking heads and for just letting the footage speak for itself. How naïve. I actually like that documentary and am glad that it was well received, but viewers and critics should have asked themselves why the specific footage they were seeing survived the edit and other footage didn't. Furthermore, the criticisms by Pentecostal theologians and other Pentecostal experts that the choice to not contextualize some of the seemingly bizarre religious practices captured in the documentary was itself a biased narrative choice. On the other hand, what did those Pentecostals expect? The necessity of narrative will inevitably kick in, and within that lies bias and propaganda. So I'm not surprised when a headline that eating bacon is as bad as smoking cigarettes turns out to be nonsense, or when the claim by the paper of record that “1 in 4 Women Experience Sex Assault on Campus” is revealed to be bullshit. Why would I be? Stories like that are just part of the narrative those news organizations are trying to sell to the public, and the sooner we recognize that bias and propaganda are inherent in news media the sooner we can become more cautious about taking so much of the news that we hear and read at face value. Edited by - misspornUSA on 12/19/2015 11:56:20 AM Click to expand Click to expand Thanks. Edited by - misspornUSA on 1/22/2016 11:37:52 AM [Link]
StarGrek Deactivated User Under the moonlight. 1763 Posts 10/11	Posted - Jan 22 2016 : 6:29PM Melvyn wrote: FlacFan wrote: StarGrek wrote: ..... What happened between them left many wounds to her and I honestly don't know who or what will heal them. Call me whatever you like, but I would dare to say that probably James himself is the only one who can! Click to expand If she cannot resolve it herself , and no I don't mean alon - with help of course, no words from that asshole would matter. Boycott James Deen, Silicone Is Evil, Razors Aren't Much Better Click to expand I think StarGrek is referring to some hot n heavy, rough makeup sex which pertains to bondage involving ballgags and buttplugs. And a pinwheel is always nice. What a scoundrel that StarGrek is. To suggest such a thing. Click to expand Well, YOU THINK WRONG Melvyn! You misinterpret completely the spirit of my post. I never said, referred or deducted such a thing. And trying to make such assumptions is completely BUT COMPLETELY wrong! I have no idea with what logic you thought I was implying something like that! Geeee dude you don't know me at all! Now, Stoya a few weeks ago made an announcement. Soon, because of Twitter it took huge dimensions and became a torrent. Various people got involved, collateral accusations, police raids, correlation with other cases etc etc... It is like watching an Oprah Winfrey show or a spectacle in the local news channel. Yes, there are many and important issues that arose from this case : about sexual harassment, about the difficult conditions of the industry, about the profession of adult performer etc... but it is my opinion that we totally missed the forest behind the bushes and carried away into an endless discussion. Before we become judges and condemn or acquit one or the other... Before we become lawyers and make emphatic references, we need to sit down and try, just try to understand Stoya, the person who posted it. The woman behind the performer. But before I continue I want to clear out some things... First of all, these BDSM, revenge, punishment, misogynistic kind of actions, Melvyn thinks I imply in my previous post, are NOT in my pornographic preference list. I already stated in the very first sentence of my previous post that I don't like rapists and logically I couldn't support activities that portray this kind of behavior. Therefore by any mean I would not like to imply, see or even imagine Stoya, one of the person I admire, not only as a woman but generally as a personality in such a scene. Her image simply doesn't fit there. Of course, I don't know her personally but from her interviews I deduct that Stoya doesn't really like to take part in kinky - master-slave - control like sexual games. She doesn't even accept the sterile gonzo prototype of porn. She just have a different theory about sex and the industry that exploits it. Her point of view is very simple. Sex, no matter what form it has or how hard it looks, it is first of all enjoyment. It is a celebration of senses and it has to be pleasureful by all members who commit it, men and women, in front of lens or behind. That is why she doesn't like to pretend or perform. And this is what she tried to do when she founded TrenchcoatX. To show to the rest of the adult world, sex and eroticism in its purest form! It is very important to reference all this because when Stoya and James meat each other, two different sexual worlds collide. A man who liked to play control games and a woman who had very clear and romantic idea about sex. Now, Stoya is not a shallow person. She is a very clever, cultured, witty, well educated woman. Stoya is in pain. She suffers. Something eating her soul for a very long time now. Twitter is a form of a personal diary. She doesn't discuss a lot, she just posts her thoughts in a poetic manner. So when she says "rape" she means a lot more than just a simple physical action. It has a profound meaning and a deeper sense. Again I am not trying to take someone side. On the contrary I am saying that somehow the whole case is fucked up completely and the only people who can fix it are themselves! So when I dare to say James might be the only man who can help her, I surely don't mean what Melvyn implies. Mercy man! I just mean that they need to talk, apologize to each other and move on with their lives, departing as friends and not as enemies. When I separated with my ex wife, the first months we continue to quarrel, accusing each other and writing poisonous words which hurt. Each member of our family picked a side and did the same. It was like a war in a soulbreaking atmosphere. Then one day we decided to change all this and put an end to this ridiculous conflict. We meet, we drunk a coffee, discuss calmly for the first time after a long time, each one recognized his/her mistakes and figured out that we just couldn't fit together for a number of reasons. So we admit our mutual care but we moved on with our lives. I found a gf, she found a bf and that's all. Now we communicate in holidays and express each other wishes. Of course I am not expecting this to happen to them but it might be one way to solve the case. You know sometimes by facing your fear, your problem, your issues in straight way, you think more clearly, which means you can find better solutions. That's all. Meanwhile... Explore Sexuality! [Link]
high_flyin5 Member 729 Posts 6/10	Posted - Jan 22 2016 : 7:42PM This reductive argument of "all news is propaganda man!" is neither profound nor particularly original. Unfortunately it stems from a school-of-thought which was specifically discussing the way in which corporate-backed media outlets are inherently incentivized to frame narratives which won't place at risk their ability to gain access to the controlling classes. Which they are structurally reliant on. Not sure how the reporting of rape statistics would fall under this paradigm. Unless of course you're asserting that women are in control of the mechanisms of governance and business. In which case, good luck in that alternate reality of yours. [Link]
misspornUSA Senior Member I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13	Posted - Jan 22 2016 : 8:28PM high_flyin5 wrote: This reductive argument of "all news is propaganda man!" is neither profound nor particularly original. Click to expand I never claimed it was either, nor in my view based on the work of Herman and Chomsky. [Link]
BlackSix All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07	Posted - Jan 22 2016 : 10:43PM Melvyn wrote: The world is pretty quick to forgive. I remember reading reports that Cosby was still playing to sold out theaters in the wake of the first major headlines breaking about his scandals and allegations. It was months into the controversy too. In time Deen will be forgiven, unless he does something even more stupid. Click to expand Not sure what reports those were I read the exact opposite, for example this Washington Post article says more than half of his shows were cancelled. [Link]
BlackSix All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07	Posted - Jan 22 2016 : 11:07PM Melvyn wrote: And out of curiosity, what entry were you trying to edit and what information did you want to log on it which got scrubbed? Click to expand Hi Melvyn I'll post a more detailed response about what is left out of that Wikipedia article on Third Wave feminism soon when I have more time for a detailed response. Although it may be a bit OT for this thread. In terms of what got scrubbed, one was about the infamous details around black metal musician's suicide where I directly referenced a quote from a bandmate from Spin magazine. I still have the original article, referenced the issue and page number and it was removed again and again until I gave up. Something very similar happened with some biographical details of a sf writer where a fully referenced detail was removed again and again because it reflected poorly on the author. No reason ever given of course. Wikipedia has none of the standards of evidence, peer review, etc that proper historical or academic writing requires. Those sources are much more reliable than Wikipedia but you're much more likely to see Wikipedia referenced than any of those sources. Edited by - BlackSix on 1/22/2016 11:11:55 PM [Link]
StarGrek Deactivated User Under the moonlight. 1763 Posts 10/11	Posted - Jan 23 2016 : 7:27AM Strange thing, we are all talking about the case making allegations and speculations around it and nobody seems to care about Stoya herself! We are trying to chase the alleged perpetrator, but still we don't do anything about the alleged victim, who really needs our help and support. WAKE UP PEOPLE, STOYA IS LEAVING, SHE IS FADING AWAY!!! [Link]
Ben Mockridge Deactivated User 382 Posts 9/15	Posted - Jan 23 2016 : 7:43AM StarGrek wrote: Edited by - StarGrek on 1/22/2016 9:42:38 AM Click to expand If true the selling of her stake in trenchcoat is interesting. Although many people are understandably supportive of Stoya from an empassioned humanity perspective , like i am myself. However from a porn consumer perspective personally i am turned off all the people involved in these events - JD , stoya , ashley fires et al. For me as a porn consumer i am repelled by any such insight into the performers indicating psychological problems , drug abuse , is a rape victim , in fact most everyday revelations are more likely to dispell the pornstar fantasy image that is a significant factor in making then fapable . At least thats how i feel. Maybe the most vociferous supporters of stoya have a different inclination and find masturbating over a rape victim somehow edifying. idk - but i dont. So maybe Stoya sold her stake because she was a liability for the site - meaning a deterant to new subscribers. [Link]

FlacFan Deactivated User 10088 Posts 8/15	Posted - Jan 23 2016 : 8:14AM ^ Everything I have ever read about/from her suggests that this was done to make sure nothing happened to her friends. "My humanity is more important to me than my brand" that pretty much covers it. FUCK YOU JAMES! FUCK YOU VERY MUCH FOR HARMING HER AND ANYONE ELSE YOU DID THIS TO. On a much lesser important note, Fuck You Very Much For Taking This Away From Us: BOYCOTT ANY STUDIO OR SITE THAT HIRES JAMES DEEN. IF YOU SUPPORT THAT STUDIO OR SITE, YOU SUPPORT HIM [Link]
Rosco Fuji Deactivated User On the licking stick, Mr. Magic Dick! 3309 Posts 2/09	Posted - Jan 23 2016 : 10:01AM ^Just curious, how did he "take this away from us?" [Link]
FlacFan Deactivated User 10088 Posts 8/15	Posted - Jan 23 2016 : 10:12AM ^ Do you honestly think she would be leaving if this hadn't happened? By all accounts she was very happy, excited to start that studio, the event happens and finally it is too much for her to accept any more. So she sells her part of the site and contemplates leaving the business. I SAY AGAIN: BOYCOTT ANY STUDIO OR SITE THAT HIRES JAMES DEEN. IF YOU SUPPORT THAT STUDIO OR SITE, YOU SUPPORT HIM [Link]
CummingLinguist All-Star Member 5908 Posts 11/11	Posted - Jan 23 2016 : 10:47AM Ben Mockridge wrote: [...] in fact most everyday revelations are more likely to dispell the pornstar fantasy image that is a significant factor in making then fapable . At least thats how i feel. Maybe the most vociferous supporters of stoya have a different inclination and find masturbating over a rape victim somehow edifying. idk - but i dont. [...] Click to expand Although I enjoy fantasies as much as the next guy, I don't know that I ever completely forget that performers are also real people, with real lives. I've had sex with a few rape victims in my life, so I see no reason why I would stop jerking off to Stoya. That said, I'll probably never again jerk off to a scene featuring James Deen and Stoya, which is a shame; her DP (with JD and Steve Holmes) in Bad Girls 5 used to be my favorite of her scenes. [Link]
FlacFan Deactivated User 10088 Posts 8/15	Posted - Jan 23 2016 : 11:17AM He's killed several epic scenes : Every scene he shot with Stoya, Every scene he shot with Remy, Lexi's 1st anal, many really good scenes on the Kink site. He's now in the Marc Wallace, Jack Venice category: They are in it? Insta-Pass. On the plus side, not that it could be that much if Stoya departs, i did save about 100 gb of space deleting scenes he was in. BOYCOTT ANY STUDIO OR SITE THAT HIRES JAMES DEEN. IF YOU SUPPORT THAT STUDIO OR SITE, YOU SUPPORT HIM Edited To remove a Miss interpreted quote Edited by - FlacFan on 1/23/2016 3:51:33 PM [Link]
Ben Mockridge Deactivated User 382 Posts 9/15	Posted - Jan 23 2016 : 12:25PM CummingLinguist wrote: Although I enjoy fantasies as much as the next guy, I don't know that I ever completely forget that performers are also real people, with real lives. I've had sex with a few rape victims in my life, so I see no reason why I would stop jerking off to Stoya. That said, I'll probably never again jerk off to a scene featuring James Deen and Stoya, which is a shame; her DP (with JD and Steve Holmes) in Bad Girls 5 used to be my favorite of her scenes. Click to expand For me porn performers are strictly objects - i have no interest in them as real people and most any revelation of the real person is going to detreact from their fapability. I can comprehend having sex with a rape victim in real life because other factos like love etc etc come into play and its a completely different dynamic. For me stoya is just a skin and bones , legs ass and pussy and im indifferent to wether she stays in porn or not - theres plenty of skin and bones to take her place. (same could be said for Deen) so i cant understand people like flacfan lamenting her (potential) loss so pasionately. Your recognising (at least at some level) that the pornstars are real people is arguably the better outlook but im guessing that most people (guys) just whack off without any semblance of interest in the real person, and theres nothing wrong with that. Obviously theres no right and wrong - different people have different outlooks and thats great, and interesting. I actually find the guys more interesting as characters. Hey flacfan youve wrongly attributed the quote in your post above ^ [Link]
DVDstuff All-Star Member 2966 Posts 9/14	Posted - Jan 23 2016 : 1:59PM FlacFan wrote: He's killed several epic scenes : Every scene he shot with Stoya, Every scene he shot with Remy, Lexi's 1st anal, many really good scenes on the Kink site. He's now in the Marc Wallace, Jack Venice category: They are in it? Insta-Pass. Click to expand For me it will be hard to watch Angela White's 1st anal scene because it is with him. I've said it more than once how he pretty much bullied the idea into Angela's head saying he would have to be her first on camera anal. Now Angela White is a very intelligent woman, but so is Stoya. But she also had him in her second release Angela Two in the gangbang scene, so I never watched that. I truly hope she never uses him again [Link]
Canadian_Cindy Deactivated User 1102 Posts 2/15	Posted - Jan 23 2016 : 3:13PM Ben Mockridge wrote: For me porn performers are strictly objects - i have no interest in them as real people and most any revelation of the real person is going to detreact from their fapability. For me stoya is just a skin and bones , legs ass and pussy and im indifferent to wether she stays in porn or not - theres plenty of skin and bones to take her place. (same could be said for Deen) so i cant understand people like flacfan lamenting her (potential) loss so pasionately. Click to expand This is quite the position to take. At least you are honest. And to be frank, A LOT of male porn consumers feel this way. You certainly are not alone in this viewpoint Edited by - Canadian_Cindy on 1/23/2016 3:14:48 PM [Link]
FlacFan Deactivated User 10088 Posts 8/15	Posted - Jan 23 2016 : 3:18PM DVDstuff wrote: I truly hope she never uses him again Click to expand I truly hope NO ONE ever uses him again. BOYCOTT ANY STUDIO OR SITE THAT HIRES JAMES DEEN. IF YOU SUPPORT THAT STUDIO OR SITE, YOU SUPPORT HIM [Link]
misspornUSA Senior Member I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13	Posted - Jan 23 2016 : 3:32PM Canadian_Cindy wrote: Ben Mockridge wrote: For me porn performers are strictly objects - i have no interest in them as real people and most any revelation of the real person is going to detreact from their fapability. For me stoya is just a skin and bones , legs ass and pussy and im indifferent to wether she stays in porn or not - theres plenty of skin and bones to take her place. (same could be said for Deen) so i cant understand people like flacfan lamenting her (potential) loss so pasionately. Click to expand This is quite the position to take. At least you are honest. And to be frank, A LOT of male porn consumers feel this way. You certainly are not alone in this viewpoint Edited by - Canadian_Cindy on 1/23/2016 3:14:48 PM Click to expand I don't doubt that many consumers might agree with Ben when he writes that: "For me porn performers are strictly objects - i have no interest in them as real people" However, the following seems pretty radical in my view: "For me stoya is just a skin and bones , legs ass and pussy and im indifferent to wether she stays in porn or not - theres plenty of skin and bones to take her place. (same could be said for Deen) " I think that a lot of male porn consumers are actually attracted to specific pornstars. [Link]

Ben Mockridge Deactivated User 382 Posts 9/15	Posted - Jan 23 2016 : 3:51PM misspornUSA wrote: I think that a lot of male porn consumers are actually attracted to specific pornstars. Click to expand Yes they attracted to specific combinations of skin and bones (meaning physical package). Im specifically attracted to catalinas skin and bones etc - but i know nothing about her real life - what do you expect me to do start researching her online. [Link]
FlacFan Deactivated User 10088 Posts 8/15	Posted - Jan 23 2016 : 3:54PM ^ So you have no empathy for what she went through? What other porn stars have gone through? As long as you get off you don't care? That's one step away from "She was asking for it". She's a woman who fucks on screen for money, that doesn't make her any less than a woman in any other field. I removed that quote. BOYCOTT ANY STUDIO OR SITE THAT HIRES JAMES DEEN. IF YOU SUPPORT THAT STUDIO OR SITE, YOU SUPPORT HIM [Link]
Rosco Fuji Deactivated User On the licking stick, Mr. Magic Dick! 3309 Posts 2/09	Posted - Jan 23 2016 : 4:04PM FlacFan wrote: ^ Do you honestly think she would be leaving if this hadn't happened? By all accounts she was very happy, excited to start that studio, the event happens and finally it is too much for her to accept any more. So she sells her part of the site and contemplates leaving the business. I SAY AGAIN: BOYCOTT ANY STUDIO OR SITE THAT HIRES JAMES DEEN. IF YOU SUPPORT THAT STUDIO OR SITE, YOU SUPPORT HIM Click to expand I have no idea what goes on in her mind, nor do I care, nor do I care if she leaves porn or for her reason. Until you know her personally, don't presume to even remotely think you know anything about her. I've never met her and wouldn't know her if she was sitting right next to me right now. Girls come and go from porn all the time for a variety of reasons. As far as your shouting tag line of BOYCOTT. Please stop telling me what kind of porn or who I should watch because you don't agree with it. There are only 2 people who know what, if anything happened between Stoya and Deen and that's them, not you. So please, take a deep breath and step down from your pulpit. [Link]
Ben Mockridge Deactivated User 382 Posts 9/15	Posted - Jan 23 2016 : 4:12PM @ Flacfan Its is precisely because i have empathy and compasion for her that i can no longer consider her as fapable. Stoya has now become more than just skin and bones (fapable) she has morphed into a real character with real problems , worthy of our compasion and personally that curtails my finding her appropriate for faping. Id prefer she does what best for her and if thats leaving porn then so be it. well done removing that wrongly attributed quote. [Link]
FlacFan Deactivated User 10088 Posts 8/15	Posted - Jan 23 2016 : 4:13PM I'm telling no one to do anything, I'm expressing my point of view, which no seems to be wrong if it annoys people. Chalk up another one that care not what happens to performers as long as he gets off. @Ben: Don't you see though, it's exactly the feminists pov that it objectifies women. BOYCOTT ANY STUDIO OR SITE THAT HIRES JAMES DEEN. IF YOU SUPPORT THAT STUDIO OR SITE, YOU SUPPORT HIM Edited by - FlacFan on 1/23/2016 4:17:06 PM [Link]
Ben Mockridge Deactivated User 382 Posts 9/15	Posted - Jan 23 2016 : 4:23PM FlacFan wrote: @Ben: Don't you see though, it's exactly the feminists pov that it objectifies women. BOYCOTT ANY STUDIO OR SITE THAT HIRES JAMES DEEN. IF YOU SUPPORT THAT STUDIO OR SITE, YOU SUPPORT HIM Edited by - FlacFan on 1/23/2016 4:17:06 PM Click to expand newsflash - men do sexually objectify women (full-stop) And porn runs on sexually objectifying men and women. And probably women sexually objectify men as well. Ok maybe we arnt allowed to acknowledge it out of deference to feminism but it remains the elephant in the forum - that men like womens bodies - thats why they watch porn. edit; Flacfan your on a porn forum talking about porn protesting about the evil of sexually objectifying women - dont you see the irregularity ? Edited by - ben mockridge on 1/23/2016 4:33:03 PM [Link]
Harri Patel Senior Member #SDNY he's all yours. -- Michael Steele 5110 Posts 3/03	Posted - Jan 23 2016 : 4:56PM Rosco Fuji wrote: As far as your shouting tag line of BOYCOTT. Please stop telling me what kind of porn or who I should watch because you don't agree with it. There are only 2 people who know what, if anything happened between Stoya and Deen and that's them, not you. So please, take a deep breath and step down from your pulpit. Click to expand Have to agree with Rosco here. All you're contributing to the thread at this point is extremely repetitive stridency and insults to anyone who doesn't agree with you. [Link]
misspornUSA Senior Member I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13	Posted - Jan 23 2016 : 5:19PM Ben Mockridge wrote: misspornUSA wrote: I think that a lot of male porn consumers are actually attracted to specific pornstars. Click to expand Yes they attracted to specific combinations of skin and bones (meaning physical package). Im specifically attracted to catalinas skin and bones etc - but i know nothing about her real life - what do you expect me to do start researching her online. Click to expand It's just the whole interchangeability thing - "For me stoya is just a skin and bones , legs ass and pussy and im indifferent to wether she stays in porn or not - theres plenty of skin and bones to take her place. (same could be said for Deen)" - that I really have a hard time understanding. So, for example, I like Abella Danger. I don't know anything about her, but I do know that Abella performs in a a certain way, sounds and speaks a certain way, looks a certain way, etc. For me, no one would "take her place" if she retired. She's Abella Danger. Another pornstar in not Abella Danger. If I watch her in a scene, I'm not thinking "Oh, it just happens to be her, but it might as well be someone else because either way it's a pornstar getting fucked and it makes no difference." The differences between pornstars are real for me. [Link]
misspornUSA Senior Member I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13	Posted - Jan 23 2016 : 5:22PM Ben Mockridge wrote: newsflash - men do sexually objectify women (full-stop) And porn runs on sexually objectifying men and women. And probably women sexually objectify men as well. Ok maybe we arnt allowed to acknowledge it out of deference to feminism but it remains the elephant in the forum - that men like womens bodies - thats why they watch porn. Click to expand I agree with some of that, but liking someone's body and reducing them to their body are not the same thing. [Link]
BlackSix All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07	Posted - Jan 23 2016 : 5:22PM Ben your posts are frankly creepy. Certainly I agree with Rosco that one should be careful to not presume to know performers and certainly there is an absurd media celebrity culture, more so in the mainstream than in porn, where people seem to think they know celebrities and care about them far more than is reasonable. There is a big difference between watching a performer who may or has suffered abuse in the past and watching someone who one knows is a rapist or sexual abuser. But performers are still people and as such deserve as much respect and care for their well being as anyone else. There's a difference between a realistic view of one's relationship to people one 'knows' only via media (what Rosco is talking about) and the callous solipsism apparent in your last few posts. Unless you're advocating some adolescent Thatcherite notion of 'there is no society' (which is absurd) we care for the well being of strangers all the time, not only in our own towns and countries but refugees or vicitms of wars half way across the world. You seem to be saying that we don't need to care about performers as people simply because they commit sexual acts on camera. Or even that we don't need to care about anyone under any circumstances. Indeed that there even is 'no right or wrong,' which is either an empty rhetorical statement or sociopathic. The notion that most people don't care about what a performer may have done in real life is belied by the responses to John Holmes, Jack Venice and Brian Surewood. Not to mention the gut reaction people have to the attempts of killers to sell book or movie rights on their crimes, the music of Charles Manson or the paintings of John Wayne Gacy. Not to say that there aren't sadly numerous cases of men who are media figures being given a pass for rape or assault charges against women but the fact that most of the ones that come to mind are by Mike Tyson, Chris Brown, R. Kelly, Tupac and Bill Cosby seems to suggest that America's toxic racial politics play some kind of unfortunate role in the rationalizations given these men (OJ Simpson's case being the best/worst example). [Link]

misspornUSA Senior Member I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13	Posted - Jan 23 2016 : 5:36PM ^R. Kelly was acquitted, and it's very strange to regard the rejection of a guilty verdict (in the cases of Tyson and Pac) as problematic while simultaneously rejecting a verdict of not guilty. Are only guilty verdicts to be trusted? [Link]
BlackSix All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07	Posted - Jan 23 2016 : 6:02PM ^ In the R. Kelly case but there was video of him having sex and urinating on his 14 year old goddaughter and it was initally tossed out on a technicality. The subsquent jury decision was absurd as were the defense claims. Do you actually believe in the patently ridiculous digital manipulation claims of the defense? He was aquitted but do you also believe that OJ Simpson is innocent because was acquitted? If so, you must be the only person left on the planet who does. Both cases are just proof that with enough money and lawyers you can get a jury to say the sky is green. Edited by - BlackSix on 1/23/2016 6:05:26 PM [Link]
FlacFan Deactivated User 10088 Posts 8/15	Posted - Jan 23 2016 : 6:10PM People have the same reaction to athletes. Pete Rose, Greg Hardy to name just a couple. As long as people get their fulfillment, they don't care about what it takes to get there. Roughly translated: Don't interfere with my fun. And no I will not shut up, but I will respectfully tone down. Boycott studios that use James Deen Edited by - FlacFan on 1/23/2016 6:11:25 PM [Link]
daviangel Member Only time I would buy a girl flowers is if she was in the hospital 455 Posts 1/04	Posted - Jan 23 2016 : 6:16PM Ben Mockridge wrote: @ Flacfan Its is precisely because i have empathy and compasion for her that i can no longer consider her as fapable. Stoya has now become more than just skin and bones (fapable) she has morphed into a real character with real problems , worthy of our compasion and personally that curtails my finding her appropriate for faping. Id prefer she does what best for her and if thats leaving porn then so be it. well done removing that wrongly attributed quote. Click to expand This reminds me of watching some interviews a while back with some female pornstars, can't recall exactly whom at the moment, where they talk about how they don't like to interact too much with their fans on Twitter or elsewhere because once they get to know them personally they lose interest in them as far as porn goes and hence end up losing money because the guys that were once their biggest fans stop buying their porn. Their point in a nutshell was that porn was supposed to be fantasy and once their fans got to know too much about them it broke that fantasy. Then again this is probably doesn't apply across the board otherwise amateur porn (which I care little for myself), where people are watching people that are more obtainable and might be their neighbor, etc, wouldn't be as popular as it is. Anyways, getting back to this thread and Stoya, it makes sense for her to get out of the business, most definitely performance side anyways, since I'm guessing the fantasy aspect of her or brand if you want is pretty much tainted at this point. Brand is everything if you are one of the top pornstars. I remember seeing some of the early pics and amateur stuff of Tera Patrick for example and it did nothing for me but later on when she started building her brand she became way more desirable and I couldn't get enough of her stuff. Edited by - daviangel on 1/23/2016 6:21:59 PM [Link]
misspornUSA Senior Member I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13	Posted - Jan 23 2016 : 6:17PM ^^^Tyson and Pac were found guilty but do you also believe they were rapists because they were found guilty? It would seem you do. Are only guilty verdicts to be trusted? R. Kelly was fairly tried and found not guilty by a jury of his peers. Of course you have every right to reject that verdict, but calling out others for rejecting guilty verdicts while you are rejecting a not-guilty verdict shows bias imo. Perhaps you share the increasingly popular assumption that any man accused of a sex crime is guilty. Whatever the case, you're welcome to your opinion. Edited by - misspornUSA on 1/23/2016 6:18:01 PM [Link]
BlackSix All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07	Posted - Jan 23 2016 : 6:20PM FlacFan wrote: Roughly translated: Don't interfere with my fun. Click to expand Amy Schumer defends Bill Cosby. [Link]
CummingLinguist All-Star Member 5908 Posts 11/11	Posted - Jan 23 2016 : 6:35PM ^ Great comedy clip. FlacFan wrote: Click to expand Great photo. [Link]
BlackSix All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07	Posted - Jan 23 2016 : 6:35PM misspornUSA wrote: ^^^Tyson and Pac were found guilty but do you also believe they were rapists because they were found guilty? It would seem you do. Are only guilty verdicts to be trusted? R. Kelly was fairly tried and found not guilty by a jury of his peers. Of course you have every right to reject that verdict, but calling out others for rejecting guilty verdicts while you are rejecting a not-guilty verdict shows bias imo. Perhaps you share the increasingly popular assumption that any man accused of a sex crime is guilty. Whatever the case, you're welcome to your opinion. Click to expand Notice you didn't reply to my question about OJ. Also please actually read the link I provided about R. Kelly's defense team's ridiculous claims instead of just issuing a kneejerk 'jury of peers' response. If you are willng to buy OJ and R Kelly's stories you are one of the few left in the world to do so. We're already OT enough but why don't you just say that you believe OJ and R. Kelly are actually not guilty, instead of dodging the question with empty sophist statements about the US legal system (which I don't care about as I'm not even American) and we can move on. The only 'bias' I have is against patent bullshit. [Link]
misspornUSA Senior Member I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13	Posted - Jan 23 2016 : 6:58PM ^I was never among those obsessed with the OJ case (I think I was about 14 when the trial took place) and so I have never done nearly enough research to have a really informed opinion on it. You have every right to agree with Mr. Levin's analysis if you so choose. "The world" does not give a damn about R. Kelly, and most of "the world" does not care about OJ either. "Popular opinion says...!" is a poor argument. [Link]
BlackSix All-Star Member pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07	Posted - Jan 23 2016 : 7:09PM Facts and a connection to reality convince me of their guilt not popular opinion. And 'the world' (aka society) does care about murderers and child abuse. It is not a good thing when we decide it doesn't matter. OJ Simpson has at least been rightly ostracized for his obvious guilt for instance. But enough of this OT talk, let's move on. [Link]
high_flyin5 Member 729 Posts 6/10	Posted - Jan 23 2016 : 10:19PM misspornUSA wrote: "The world" does not give a damn about R. Kelly, and most of "the world" does not care about OJ either. "Popular opinion says...!" is a poor argument. Click to expand This is simply false by any measurable standard. We're 21 years removed from the OJ Case and we're awash in popular documentaries from major media outlets on a regular basis (ESPN produced a documentary about the car chase alone in 2010 for goodness sake). To this day we're seeing regular postings and interviews regarding the fiasco of R. Kelly, in addition to it becoming the shorthand in many popular comedic programs for celebrities who engage in criminal sexual acts yet retain a devoted fan-base (see: The Boondocks, or Chappelle's Show). You can state that you personally have no interest in them, but to suggest that they are not flash-points for culture at large is just simply untrue. Edited by - high_flyin5 on 1/23/2016 10:21:18 PM [Link]
misspornUSA Senior Member I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13	Posted - Jan 23 2016 : 10:30PM ^Although I'm an American I do not identify "the world" as being the United States, or even the West. If you want to argue that the R. Kelly trial was a global event, or that all of Pakistan was glued to their television sets awaiting the OJ verdict, be my guest. [Link]
high_flyin5 Member 729 Posts 6/10	Posted - Jan 23 2016 : 11:21PM misspornUSA wrote: ^Although I'm an American I do not identify "the world" as being the United States, or even the West. If you want to argue that the R. Kelly trial was a global event, or that all of Pakistan was glued to their television sets awaiting the OJ verdict, be my guest. Click to expand That's a rather odd bit of semantics you're engaging in while not addressing his main point, considering he already clarified his point about the "world" as being the society in which we reside. Edited by - high_flyin5 on 1/23/2016 11:29:36 PM [Link]
misspornUSA Senior Member I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13	Posted - Jan 23 2016 : 11:34PM ^Why are we still discussing this? My reply to him was before his clarification, which was as follows: "'the world' (aka society) does care about murderers and child abuse." Notice that this time he spoke in general terms, not about OJ and R. Kelly specifically. Even if BlackSix is suggesting that "the world" is "the West" (BlackSix is European, not American), he altered his claim that "the world" regards R. Kelly and OJ as guilty to "'the world' (aka society) does care about murderers and child abuse." BlackSix wrote: But enough of this OT talk, let's move on. Click to expand Edited by - misspornUSA on 1/23/2016 11:34:36 PM [Link]
Antwon Deactivated User 107 Posts 1/16	Posted - Jan 23 2016 : 11:52PM Put the lad in prison if he did it! No need for blabbering about. [Link]
Canadian_Cindy Deactivated User 1102 Posts 2/15	Posted - Jan 24 2016 : 2:07AM Ben Mockridge wrote: misspornUSA wrote: I think that a lot of male porn consumers are actually attracted to specific pornstars. Click to expand Yes they attracted to specific combinations of skin and bones (meaning physical package). Im specifically attracted to catalinas skin and bones etc - but i know nothing about her real life - what do you expect me to do start researching her online. Click to expand I have to tell you Ben; I find it far more exciting if I know a bit about the performer..... just gives the feel of a more personal touch.... but hey, I am a woman, more emotional :) [Link]