I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Mar 7 2016 : 1:47AM
^Apparently, Rosco isn't saying that if a person isn't charged nothing happened. He seems to be saying that in such a case the crime still happened, but unless that person is charged, tried, and found guilty that person didn't do it. However, with the odd way that he's phrasing things I'm not sure if I'm reading him right.
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TastyFilthyGirlStinkHoles Deactivated User
It just looks and feels so fucking good! 142 Posts 3/16
Posted - Mar 7 2016 : 5:51AM
Ah, I am therefore in complete agreement with you on this matter. ....indeed my name was picked to arouse such a reaction, it appears to be working
Except for the fact that according to law the onus is on Stoya and the prosecution to prove that what they say is true. James is under no obligation to prove his innocence, except apparently in a court of public opinion to a bunch of keyboard white knights who want to tar and feather him based on an accusation. Now personally I hate all the victim shaming and blame shifting and every other shady thing that always happens to the accusers in situations like this. It's low. It's degrading. The worst part is that the rapists generally get off on that aspect of it. It helps them get away with it and they get to see their victim further degraded. So it really sucks. That said, I will be really surprised if James Deen is found guilty. He's been a champion for respect for performers in his work field for a long time, and let's be honest about something. Stoya is not exactly the most credible accuser in the world. Yes I know that makes me sound like a hypocrite considering what I wrote in the previous paragraph, but in this situation it may have providence. James and Stoya have a personal history. Their breakup was horrible and Stoya has had lots of really flaky occurences with lots of people over the years. So until a jury comes back with a guilty verdict, which is really unlikely, I have a really hard time swallowing this accusation. The rest of you are free to form your own opinions. Just remember that every time you repeat this accusation you make life more difficult for a dude who's never been found guilty in a court of law and by all appearances has busted his ass for performer's rights over the course of his career.
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Ben Mockridge Deactivated User
382 Posts 9/15
Posted - Mar 8 2016 : 7:01AM
I thought JD resigned from APAC - however he is still listed as a APAC board member. http://apac-usa.com/about/ For me all Stoyas talk about apac was a red herring anyway - rape shoudnt be reported to apac it should be reported to the cops. Maybe apac could fill a secondary role but the proper authority for dealing with rape is the cops and any inference that sex crimes against sex workers should be dealt differently from the sex crimes against the general public is a wrong turn.
Stoya has a lot of issues that have been well documented over the years, and I'll simply leave it at that. James stepped down as head of apac. I don't know if he quit entirely.
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Rosco Fuji Deactivated User
On the licking stick, Mr. Magic Dick! 3309 Posts 2/09
Posted - Mar 8 2016 : 3:51PM
We're a society of laws, so if you're not convicted after being accused and you walk free because no one can prove you did it, you didn't do it, someone else did.
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Rosco Fuji Deactivated User
On the licking stick, Mr. Magic Dick! 3309 Posts 2/09
Posted - Mar 8 2016 : 3:55PM
Strange way? It was right to the point.
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Canadian_Cindy Deactivated User
1102 Posts 2/15
Posted - Mar 8 2016 : 4:00PM
Well, of course if a court says you are not guilty you got that in writing, enjoy it. However, you have been arguing that if a crime is never reported to the police, never makes the legal system, that by default nobody did anything. Very dangerous thinking to give a pass to all the crimes that happen that never get caught, reported, and so on. Edited by - Canadian_Cindy on 3/8/2016 4:01:00 PM
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Rosco Fuji Deactivated User
On the licking stick, Mr. Magic Dick! 3309 Posts 2/09
Posted - Mar 8 2016 : 4:00PM
Thank you.
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Rosco Fuji Deactivated User
On the licking stick, Mr. Magic Dick! 3309 Posts 2/09
Posted - Mar 8 2016 : 4:07PM
Let it go already! I haven't been arguing that, that's all you. Here's an article from the New York Post about one of the so called Deen accusers who's been tossing around rape claims. Farrah Abraham changes her mind. No crime has actually been committed, but she was claiming that one was. Edited by - rosco fuji on 3/8/2016 4:08:14 PM
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Mar 8 2016 : 4:11PM
It was unnecessarily vague. If you want to say that someone didn't commit a crime insofar as the law is concerned, then why not write "He didn't do it insofar as the law is concerned." Stating flatly "He didn't do it" sounds like something else. Edited by - misspornUSA on 3/8/2016 4:14:06 PM
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Canadian_Cindy Deactivated User
1102 Posts 2/15
Posted - Mar 8 2016 : 5:45PM
Some points... - This article has nothing to do with Deen - Yes, it is worded in a way to say Farrah made up a rape claim and then recanted. Fair play. However, this is the mentality that if a woman lied somewhere else then she must be lying here. That is not something that is acceptable. The most lying terrible immoral woman of all time can still be a victim of rape if she says no and the guy abuses her . A woman's life should not be on trial here. Farrah is not a beacon of light and is not much better than a Khardasian , we all get that. That doesn't mean she is lying about Deen. - At the very least, Deen has issues with women and wanting to hurt and harm them, make them feel awful about themselves, and does not know when to stop or take no for an answer. This is not disputable really and people can make up their own minds if they want to associate with someone like this or not. This does not mean he raped anyone, we don't know that and may never. He does, however, have serious issues that need to be taken into account when dealing with him. - Here is a big one, listen..... I HAVE NEVER SAID DEEN IS GUILTY OF RAPE. Nobody knows that other than the accusers themselves. Heck, Deen may not even know it because he displays attributes of a guy who just can't fathom someone saying no to him or that he should stop when told to. I have said in this thread, that enough has been said and we should all move on from it. Unless one of these women gets a police investigation going, this issue has nothing else that can be done. - I have been debating with you ad nauseum about your concept that a person only has committed a crime if the law has convicted him/ her of it. Otherwise, nothing happened. I don't find that good and think it is dangerous. That is me. Thank you
First of all, nice addition of multiple qualifiers. Second of all, there are more reasons to not be convicted than because you didn't do it. Third of all, if that were true, explain why OJ was criminally not guilty of murder yet civilly liable for 2 deaths. This is nowhere near as cut and dry as you keep pretending it is. Another example: George Zimmerman killed Trayvon Martin. Everyone agrees on that matter. But he was found not guilty of murder. Does that mean someone else killed him? Not to mention that if we're actually talking about the subject of this thread, it has never gone to court, and it never will, so everything you're saying doesn't apply. Edited by - whatsatelephonebill on 3/8/2016 8:57:53 PM
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Rosco Fuji Deactivated User
On the licking stick, Mr. Magic Dick! 3309 Posts 2/09
Posted - Mar 8 2016 : 11:30PM
1. I have no idea why he was found guilty in a civil trial. it's very cut and dry. Not guilty means the prosecution couldn't prove their case, so he legally he didn't do it. 2. Seriously???? That's what you're going with. Be realistic will you as you're really grasping at that one. There was never any question whether he shot the kid. 3. Until such time as he's arrested/charged and convicted, calling the guy a rapist is a little much, don't you think? Especially when one of the accusers has serious credibility issues.
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Rosco Fuji Deactivated User
On the licking stick, Mr. Magic Dick! 3309 Posts 2/09
Posted - Mar 8 2016 : 11:32PM
I give up. Not because you're right, but because you just don't get it.
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JB_X Deactivated User
addled 1500 Posts 10/12
Posted - Mar 9 2016 : 12:03AM
The burden of proof is lower in a civil case than in a criminal case. The fact that he was found "not guilty" in the criminal trial means that the jury decided the prosecution could not prove their case "beyond a reasonable doubt." The burden of proof in a civil case is "by preponderance of the evidence," meaning that it's just more likely that he did it than he didn't. So it's really not very cut and dry.
Canadian_Cindy Deactivated User
1102 Posts 2/15
Posted - Mar 9 2016 : 12:50AM
Well, you just proclaimed OJ Simpson didn't do it. Does anyone get it in your eyes?
Did anyone mention parallels to the #FreeKesha campaign? I only looked into this a moment ago, but check out this video and tell me what this guy might be leaving out: https://youtu.be/bJ4YvsN43Bk
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Mar 9 2016 : 9:14PM
^I haven't followed the story closely at all so I don't know how reliable MundaneMatt's account is, but I never believed Kesha's claims to begin with. My impression is that Matt makes some good points, although, again, I'm not very familiar with the story and am taking what he has to say at face value. I detracted a few points from him for using the inane acronym "sjw", but aside from that I don't have any issues with anything he said. He may very well be correct in his analysis.
I'm going to start with the most important thing: She hasn't lost her court case yet. What she lost in February was an injunction to get her out of her contract before her court case even started. The actual court case isn't going to happen for a little longer (and that's where she has to prove all her claims).
^^ Of course anyone would think it a most horrible thing if Kesha had been raped and forced to work with her rapist. But then why would she have testified in a 2011 case that he did not rape her? Has she changed her story, or were there new assaults she is alleging which occurred since then? In any case, Sony changed the deal just based on her accusations in order to accommodate her and let her work with another producer. ^^^ Just contrast MundaneMatt (my first time watching his channel) and his coverage with The Young Turks' sister channel Pop Trigger and how they covered it. They didn't even mention that Kesha testified Luke did not rape her or even have sex with her. Kesha Sobs as Judge Refuses I have grown to really really dislike TYT, and Pop Trigger is even further at sea. I just deeply resent manipulative people. Edited by - Melvyn on 3/11/2016 12:31:10 AM
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Canadian_Cindy Deactivated User
1102 Posts 2/15
Posted - Mar 11 2016 : 12:42AM
Was he specifically targeted as a result of all this? A lot of people are doing the same things and I don't hear about any fines like this.
^ The AHF has filed complaints against other companies in the past, but I'm not sure what ever came of them. The person to ask would be pringles in the Condoms in Porn...Ballot Measure B/Bill AB 1576 thread. He's the resident expert on matters relating to condom enforcement. Edited by - Mister Fahrenheit on 3/11/2016 2:56:57 AM
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Mar 11 2016 : 10:47AM
I've never understood the appeal of amateur 'commentary' Youtubers like the Young Turks. If one wants proper reporting lookup reputable reporters, not randoms somebodies on the net.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Mar 11 2016 : 10:56AM
^^^^The only Pop Trigger videos I've ever watched are interviews of people whom I'm interested in. Likewise with TYT itself. Beyond that I haven't explored either channel. Edited by - misspornUSA on 3/11/2016 10:57:19 AM
Cenk used to work as a correspondent for MSNBC I think. I used to appreciate his everyman blue collar type of personality, and he's not a completely deranged liberal loon, but that was years ago. As TYT has taken off to become the #1 "news oriented" channel on Youtube, they've only doubled and tripled down on partisan agenda peddling. It's so transparent now it's just shameful. They are to left-wing what Fox news is to right-wing. It's almost entirely pandering now. You want to see some truly galling trainwrecks and embarrassments to journalism, watch their videos on Sam Harris. The ones where they slander and attack him. Then watch the 3 hour interview between Cenk and Sam. You will see the reality is astonishingly different from how they wanted to portray Harris. They lost a tremendous amount of followers and pissed away an incalculable amount of whatever credibility they had with their feud with Harris. Then more to the purposes of this thread, to see any even worse, more succinct, more acutely intolerant and biased example, watch how they treated Karen Straughan, labeling her inappropriately, mischaracterizing her positions, and resorting to downright trolling by the end of the interview: https://youtu.be/r7kqqywey7g I don't care what your politics are, but you have to admire Karen in that video for maintaining composure, being unphased and delivering strong arguments in the face of low-blow baiting and aggressive bully tactics. They intended for it to be a hit-piece, but it backfired on them. Look at the rating. I understand the importance and need for diligent and even aggressive interrogation of seriously threatening ideas, but the fact that in the title of the video they show blatant disrespect for their guest by labeling them as something which they do not identify as (Karen has stated openly she does not identify as an MRA) tells you all you need to know about them. They owe serious apologies to Harris and Straughan, but instead they double down and continue to attack them on their channel unfairly. After that 3 hour interview on TYT with Harris, they still continued to misrepresent his views and attack him. Even though 3 hours of rigorous interrogation revealed nothing but a rational, civil, and temperate individual in Harris. He was not the racist tyrant they were looking for. And anyone who has spent time reading or listening to Harris knows that lengthy interview is not a charade. That's how he is all the time. He's calm and collected and rational. And much unlike Cenk and TYT, Harris has actually reached across the aisle to outspoken Islamic activists like Majiid Nawaz, a theist with a vested interest in protecting the reputation of Islam and finding the most peaceful way to reconcile religiosity with the progressive modernity which sees atheism on the race. They've collaborated and written a book together where they seek common ground and tolerance. TYT wants desperately to paint Harris as a bigot who is antagonizing Islam exclusively and ginning up other intolerant bigots to move for WW3 by nuking the middle-east. That's the bogey man that TYT wishes Harris was. Harris throughout his career has criticized all the major religions, particularly Christianity and Judaism. He's not being selective. He's not a racist. Those are just fatuous slanderous terms thrown out to no-platform someone. It's a desperate and shameless attempt to de-legitimize and opposing perspective, and TYT do this time and time again. Even Fox News as blatantly partisan as they are can't get away with slandering people without being held accountable. TYT seem to have some kind of loophole where they can slander anyone for any reasons without even being forced to make a correction. E.g. a year ago they ran a video calling the 6 cops who were facing charges in the Freddie Gray case in Baltimore murderers. The title of the video boldly and clearly said they were murderers. They haven't even all gone to trial yet almost 12 months later! Whether you suspect they are guilty is one thing, but to declare it as fact without a trial is reprehensible. But you are right to question their journalistic integrity, their journalistic worth. Any reputable journalist or publication would have been sued if they engaged in the same tactics. Anna Kasparian sure is hot though. She's also the real brains of that operation. I don't think Cenk is nearly as sharp.
Here's the popular 3 hour interrogation of Sam Harris by TYT which came in the wake of the infamous spat with Batfleck in Oct 2014, who called him "gross" and "racist." You can contrast that with any of the other videos about Harris on TYT's channel. https://youtu.be/WVl3BJoEoAU For anyone with concerns about not just terrorism or religion, but history and society in general, it's highly illuminating.
It does seem really suspicious. I'll reserve judgment til I learn more details, but obviously the most logical question that arises immediately is why not virtually everyone else in porn? Seems like there's some poli-trickin going on.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Mar 11 2016 : 12:43PM
I'll take your examples of TYT's alleged misbehavior ("alleged" because I haven't watched the videos) any day over mainstream media getting people killed and countries destroyed because of their dishonesty about Palestine, Iraq, Libya, Ukraine, Syria, etc., etc. Edited by - misspornUSA on 3/11/2016 12:44:59 PM
and for those who continue to wonder why some people don't report.... need only look at this page for attacks on accusers. then multiply that because dealing with real life people (lawyers, police, media) is worse than having to listen to keyboard rape apologists.
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Ben Mockridge Deactivated User
382 Posts 9/15
Posted - Mar 11 2016 : 2:48PM
^ Where on this page are the attacks on accusers ? Do you think it is wrong to scrutinise rape allegations ? Do you think we should blindly believe all rape allegations ? Do you think that defense lawyers in rape trials are rape apologists ?
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koffi Deactivated User
4 Posts 6/16
Posted - Jun 19 2016 : 6:49AM
8 women made serious, very SPECIFIC, similar allegations against Deen (rape, drugging, abuse etc). They didnt take it to court because they knew they couldnt prove it. Deen also made Jewish supremacist remarks in a magazine interview: ”The Jews know we’re better than everyone else. That’s all that matters. It’s true. We’re the Chosen People. It’s a fact.” (Feel free to google those facts) How is this guy still working in the industry?
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Canadian_Cindy Deactivated User
1102 Posts 2/15
Posted - Jun 19 2016 : 1:50PM
Haven't seen this thread for a while.... You know, I do not like Deen. however, that comment about Jewish superiority seems very tongue in cheek to me. I am not aware of the context or the interview you refer to, it just seems like something someone would say with a wink. As for you asking "how is this guy still working".... well, first, he lost A LOT of work.. he is not working like he used to. He did take a hit to his income. Secondly, there are people that do believe if there are no formal charges filed that the man should not be blackballed over twitter accusations. THirdly, it's porn, you don't have to be a moral beacon to get work.
This is a pretty redundant comment since most people are questioning the legitimacy of her claims is because she has absolutely nothing to back up her claims other than "plox believe meh". Fact is if you dont have evidence of the act and you don't report it then no one can take you seriously. There are a multitude of people who have had their lives ruined because of false rape accusations and if you have no evidence nor even bothered to file a report you are essentially going please believe me, I promise I'm telling the truth DDDD: Fact is if you dont report you have nothing to base your claims and that will also have people start questioning if you are telling the truth. That's how society works. The day we blindly just "believe" claims that's the day when we start ruining lives of innocent people. Edited by - boi150 on 7/1/2016 10:31:37 AM
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Canadian_Cindy Deactivated User
1102 Posts 2/15
Posted - Jul 1 2016 : 12:09PM
I have my own distasteful feelings about James Deen from before this ever came out. However, with Stoya not even filing any charges it is really tough to expect people to take this all seriously. I can understand why people don't report right away, we have plenty of knowledge as to why. However, if you do come forward, twittering it and then no follow through is a tough sell for me. I said more than once in this thread, twitter is not the place to accuse someone of raping or assaulting you. File a police report or sue him civilly and let people do their job getting it right. The Cosby disaster is a bit different because most of the women were long past any ability to file charges. So the internet was their medium. In the Deen situation, any one of these women could file a police report and it would be legally taken into an investigation. Edited by - Canadian_Cindy on 7/1/2016 12:12:25 PM
Filing a report doesn't alter the facts. The salient facts are that the alleged rape happened within the context of an existing sexual relationship, and there were no neutral witnesses handy. That being so, I completely understand why Stoya would not see any point in filing a report. Barring a confession, it is 'he said, she said', and the odds of overcoming the presumption of innocence are slim to none.
^There are no "facts". Nothing has ever been proven, only Stoya's claims which isn't evidence and I(and many others) believe they're lies. I am glad to see James Deen still working and doing well and his career wasn't ruined by this like many evil people wanted. The good has triumphed.
Just because you don't know them doesn't mean there are no facts. Just because you refuse to acknowledge them doesn't mean there are no facts. There are always facts. I am glad to see James Deen still working and doing well and his career wasn't ruined by this like many evil people wanted. The good has triumphed.
You have no idea whether or not good has triumphed because you have no idea what really happened, any more than the people who believe Stoya know what really happened.
^Are you gonna try to change goalposts now? Because I'm clearly talking about a very specific and simple thing here: wether the rape happened or not nothing else. If you can show us all that this alleged rape is a factual event with solid evidence(which I already know you can't) I'll change my tune. As for the rest of my post, those are my own thoughts and I'm not presenting them as if they're facts, unlike some people. I believe good has triumphed over lies and evil deeds, yes.
Since I'm not playing by your arbitrary rules, I could not care less what you think the goal posts are, or where you've located them. At this point, it is obvious that you cannot read for content, so any further exchange is pointless. Ciao.
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Jedi Master Bates Deactivated User
383 Posts 9/11
Posted - Jul 2 2016 : 4:30PM
Oh shit, so if a girl has issues, we're free to rape and nobody will believe it. Stoya isn't the only one who accused deen of assaulting her.
Alright here I'll throw you a bone: It is a fact that stoya made a twitter post of the accusation. It is a fact that she pressed the 'tweet' button. Those are certainly facts, yes. LOL.
I asked this question mutliple times earlier in the thread but never saw an answer. Maybe I missed it since I moved on and decided to ignore this thread a couple months ago. But was it ever revealed at what date the rape Stoya accuses Deen of occurred or at what point relative to their divorce? Was it immediately before she left him or did she stay with him a while thinking they might reconcile? The reason this seems critical to me is because for all we know what he did which she insists was rape (which since the beginning I've tried to remain neutral on because we cannot prove one way or another, but I initially just gave her the benefit of the doubt) was something he had done before. Odds are it was not an isolated occurrence. Maybe she was never comfortable with it. Or maybe she was before but then later in the relationship changed her mind, so the last time he did it she wasn't going to tolerate it anymore. I believe anyone is certainly entitled to change their mind about things they are or are not comfortable with, but you see the point about a intimate sexual relationship complicating things? From what it sounded, they were both pretty big into rough sex, if not BDSM style. Why else would she have submitted to being tied up unless she was at least into it, or enough into it to go along? Or I'm mistaken and the whole event was him overpowering her against her will from the beginning and tying her up while she resisted and then he raped her? But my initial impression was she went along with it to a point and then wanted to call it off. In a sense, that final (?) sexual episode between them represents their whole marriage. She was feeling it up to a point, but it went to far and she wanted out. But this is the danger of enabling bad behavior beforehand. So does anyone know when the event happened and when they separated?
James Deen @ AEBN
Posted - Mar 7 2016 : 1:47AM
