I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Mar 3 2016 : 2:25PM
^Until he's found guilty in a court of law, he is legally innocent. That does not mean he didn't do it. By your logic, you could witness a murder occur a few feet away from you with your own eyes, but if the guy isn't found guilty he didn't commit the murder.
^ Not to mention if you consistently adhere to a strict "Court of law" standard, then Stoya wasn't lying unless she's found guilty of libel or defamation. So going that route means you're in the untenable position of believing both that Deen didn't do it and that Stoya was telling the truth that he did. Paradox.
[Link]
Canadian_Cindy Deactivated User
1102 Posts 2/15
Posted - Mar 3 2016 : 3:15PM
People who are this absolute change their tune pretty quickly of someone they care about is a victim of a crime and the offender doesn't get caught or convicted in court. Plenty of crimes are never reported, caught, charged, or get a conviction. That doesn't mean a person is innocent; it just means they got away with it. I know where he is coming from; we can't tar and feather people based only on accusations because there are all sorts of false accusations and rumor out there. I get that and support that concept most of the time. However, it is not as absolute as he makes it out to be when you get multiple people saying the same general thing like with Cosby. Nobody took the time to do anything other than social media accusations against Mr. Deen. So, I do feel at this point that people should draw their own feelings and we should move on from this issue. Nothing more is going to come from it unless someone else comes forward. I think Stoya got her pound of flesh in the sense it has harmed his career and income and reputation. People will be more watchful of him and others; and I think women in porn should feel more confident they can come forward. Just please, those who wish to come forward about assault in the future, do it through legal channels and not twitter. Please.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Mar 3 2016 : 3:29PM
Well said.
[Link]
Jado3Dhead Deactivated User
564 Posts 3/16
Posted - Mar 3 2016 : 6:39PM
Ah fuck! If this allegation is true, it sucks for me because I've beated off to a lot of scenes with him featured. And now I don't think I can do that anymore.
[Link]
Rosco Fuji Deactivated User
On the licking stick, Mr. Magic Dick! 3309 Posts 2/09
Posted - Mar 3 2016 : 11:05PM
If he wasn't found guilty, then he didn't do it. Since we're a society of laws and most things we do or don't do revolve around said laws, then he didn't do it.
This thread has lost it's allure… Both will have their career affected. Physically, Stoya could kick James Deen's ass. Palms down!!! Mentally, Stoya is… what Stoya is... The second Stoya brings charges against Deen, then, we " gots " something. It will NEVER happen… People…deal with It!!!
[Link]
Canadian_Cindy Deactivated User
1102 Posts 2/15
Posted - Mar 3 2016 : 11:35PM
Then you are giving a pass to every crime committed that is not reported or caught because it didn't make it to a court of law that resulted in a conviction? If someone pulls a home robbery on you and kills a loved one in the process, and the police never find out who did it... would you say "no crime was committed, nobody did anything!!!". It's easy for you to make these beliefs when you are not a victim of an unsolved crime. Things are not so binary and answers are not so simplistic with only two options available. Edited by - Canadian_Cindy on 3/3/2016 11:36:28 PM
Then you completely do not understand how the justice system works. What does surprise me a little is that there is, at least as far as I am aware, no civil suit pending? The burden of proof in a civil suit is FAR less onerous than a criminal one. Intriguing dilemma for those directly involved. I still stand by that I cannot believe a dozen women orchestrated this to defame JD.
[Link]
Canadian_Cindy Deactivated User
1102 Posts 2/15
Posted - Mar 4 2016 : 12:19AM
There are people even here on this forum that think 50 women all conspired to make up stories about Bill Cosby just for the hell of it. You can;t reach some people no matter what is happening. Edited by - Canadian_Cindy on 3/4/2016 12:20:05 AM
[Link]
Ben Mockridge Deactivated User
382 Posts 9/15
Posted - Mar 4 2016 : 2:16AM
Cindy i agree with you 100%. The only one who benefits from relegating rape trials to twitter is the defendant.
[Link]
klies Deactivated User
1733 Posts 5/09
Posted - Mar 4 2016 : 3:10AM
when things get personal then it is not about justice. it is about revenge. one of the reasons why cops are not(???, shouldn't be) allowed to investigate a case if they are related to either accused or the victim. If it can not be proved in court then he didn't do it. thats it. the end. if you know a system which can work better than what we have then please send your suggestions to the gov.
^ And no one has proven in court that Stoya was lying. So by your logic that means she was telling the truth. At the same time though, James Deen didn't do it. This is confusing.
[Link]
klies Deactivated User
1733 Posts 5/09
Posted - Mar 4 2016 : 3:29AM
^ has she been accused of anything so far? yes there are a few who have said that they don't believe her but is that even comparable to what thousands of people have said about Deen? you seem more interested in defending someone who is not even accused of anything but you show no sympathy for someone who's been called a rapist and must have suffered financial loss without any single piece of evidence against him. The day stoya stands in the court facing suing/defamation charges or whatever then i will say and defend her the same way too.
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Mar 4 2016 : 6:52AM
This kind of absurd statement is pure rhetoric that people will only say in the abstract but not actually work in reality. So you believe OJ didn't commit murder because he got off? And if someone is convicted of murder but DNA evidence later proves them innocent but the state makes a deal to let them out without admitting fault or granting a pardon (eg. the Memphis Three case) then they still did do it?
[Link]
Rosco Fuji Deactivated User
On the licking stick, Mr. Magic Dick! 3309 Posts 2/09
Posted - Mar 4 2016 : 10:56AM
You're comparing apples to oranges and your argument holds no water what so ever. Over the past 50 pages or so or however long this thread is, you're determined to come across as the definitive voice of authority on this topic. Guess what, you're not. Read what I said, I said we're a society of laws and everything is based around said laws. Until someone is convicted of a crime, "They" operative word "They" didn't do it. That's not to say a crime didn't happen, but until the accused is convicted, "they" didn't do it. While you might disagree, you're only the court of "public opinion" and not a court of law. And it sounds like you'd rather have someone, anyone for that matter be convicted for a crime they may or may not have committed. We're a society of laws to try and protect us from that way of thinking. People forget that our criminal justice system is designed to protect the rights of the accused and not the victims. One other thing, numerous women for whatever reason, whether it be for revenge or attention have cried rape and people have been sent to jail only to be released after 10. 20, or even 30 years when the accuser all of a sudden felt guilty and recanted. But in your mind that's okay, because at the time of the accusation, someone was convicted.
[Link]
Canadian_Cindy Deactivated User
1102 Posts 2/15
Posted - Mar 4 2016 : 5:10PM
The number of people who have served 10 - 30 years sentences for false rape allegations is a tiny tiny amount; you make it sound like this is an epidemic. And by the way, from any ones that I have read about in this situation, rapes and assault did happen.. it was over zealous police or prosecutors or shitty evidence that convicted the wrong guy. It wasn't the women's fault. Also, I have never said Deen is guilty. In fact, I have made more than one post saying we should all learn from this and move on; there is nothing more to be gained unless someone files legitimate charges. I have also said, that this should never have been a twitter allegation. Stoya was wrong to do that, very wrong. If she wanted to come forward with this she should have done it the right way with the legal system. Twitter allegations are not the right way to do anything involving alleged crimes. I stand by my belief that if a crime were committed against someone you cared about, and the criminal was never caught, that you would not say ""there was no crime!". It is easy to say crimes do not exist unless they are proven in a court of law; not so easy when it affects you personally.
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06
Posted - Mar 4 2016 : 5:15PM
^^ Actually no. Based on your logic it was okay because there was enough evidence to convict them in a court of law. And we are a society based on laws right? So who are we to argue with the court of law? Or does that just apply when it's convenient to you and your agenda? While we as citizens are obligated to uphold the laws of which we've agreed upon (through voting, or the voting of our elected representatives) we are under no obligation to change our beliefs. If I was operating as a representative of the government, then yes, I would be obligated to treat people that haven't been convicted of a crime as if they haven't committed a crime. As a basic citizen I'm under no such obligation. If you believe otherwise, you don't understand the very laws which you profess to believe in and adhere to so strictly.
Edited by - murdock on 3/4/2016 5:15:56 PM
[Link]
Rosco Fuji Deactivated User
On the licking stick, Mr. Magic Dick! 3309 Posts 2/09
Posted - Mar 4 2016 : 11:35PM
how-porn-stars-blackmail-a-ton-of-married-nba-players/ farrah-abraham-claims-uber-driver-tried-to-rape-her Check out these articles. MMMMMM this is twice in roughly three months that Farrah is throwing the word rape around. It wasn't the woman's fault????? She's the one pointing the finger at the guy, and no I never said it was an epidemic, but one is too many, but since you claim that its a small percentage, I'll throw it right back at you. "Would you shrug a false accusation off like you just did if it was one of "YOUR" loved ones. I think not, you'd be saying "that lying bitch" real quick. And, I'll say it again, apples and oranges, I never said the crime didn't happen, I said if the accused wasn't found guilty, "They" didn't do the crime. What's so hard to comprehend about that.
[Link]
Rosco Fuji Deactivated User
On the licking stick, Mr. Magic Dick! 3309 Posts 2/09
Posted - Mar 4 2016 : 11:38PM
I have no idea what you're trying to say, can you go a little slower for me, that makes absolutely no sense?
To counter your legal talk with my own, someone not being found guilty (or being found not guilty) is not the same as them being innocent. There's a reason they specifically say not guilty. There are multitudes of cases (and multitudes of reasons) where someone has committed a crime and still not been found guilty. Saying "They didn't do the crime" goes beyond them being not guilty to them being innocent.
One day, if a crime is committed against you or someone you care about, and the perp is not caught; I hope you will be consistent and say nobody committed a crime.
[Link]
Rosco Fuji Deactivated User
On the licking stick, Mr. Magic Dick! 3309 Posts 2/09
Posted - Mar 5 2016 : 9:29AM
Get a clue will you and Learn to read.
[Link]
Rosco Fuji Deactivated User
On the licking stick, Mr. Magic Dick! 3309 Posts 2/09
Posted - Mar 5 2016 : 9:32AM
Yeah, and the reason is "it couldn't be proven beyond a reasonable doubt" why is that concept so hard to grasp on this thread?
[Link]
Canadian_Cindy Deactivated User
1102 Posts 2/15
Posted - Mar 5 2016 : 1:42PM
You are saying a crime can happen; however "they" didn't do it. So , nobody did it. It must be magic!
[Link]
Rosco Fuji Deactivated User
On the licking stick, Mr. Magic Dick! 3309 Posts 2/09
Posted - Mar 5 2016 : 5:19PM
MOD: Read the forum etiquette. Edited by - flash on 3/5/2016 9:05:39 PM
^ This is a pretty low blow... Can't we at least agree that basically we all as people on a Porn Board are crazy to spend so much time here, and therefore we all could need professional help? No one of us is better or worse than the other in that regard. So no need to try to use that against anyone of us. I am crazy, Rosco is crazy, Cindy is crazy... no need for "YOU need help! YOU are the crazy one!" That's already a given... so what?
^^ I agree with Quorrl that opinions and views can be articulated without taking shots at individual posters. ^ That said, I like Goldstein's humorous take on the situation!
[Link]
Canadian_Cindy Deactivated User
1102 Posts 2/15
Posted - Mar 5 2016 : 9:02PM
Oh I know, if I happen to disagree with you, the only option has to be I am suffering from a mental illness. Of course, you can comment on this rape allegation "on a porn board of all places".... but for me, well, I need professional help to do the same thing. And wow, an allegation of rape between porn performers; and we dare to talk about it on a porn discussion forum. Definitely need professional help. What is really cool is I may have committed a crime today,but nobody knows about it, so I didn't do it! Edited by - Canadian_Cindy on 3/5/2016 9:03:15 PM Edited by - flash on 3/5/2016 9:06:00 PM
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Mar 5 2016 : 9:23PM
Apparently if you like porn you can't oppose rape??
[Link]
Canadian_Cindy Deactivated User
1102 Posts 2/15
Posted - Mar 5 2016 : 10:36PM
Rapist don't exist (and therefore rape) unless convicted in court.. just remember that new axiom of life. All the unreported rapes the experts go on about is just a conspiracy, never happened. Edited by - Canadian_Cindy on 3/5/2016 10:36:41 PM
[Link]
Rosco Fuji Deactivated User
On the licking stick, Mr. Magic Dick! 3309 Posts 2/09
Posted - Mar 6 2016 : 4:13PM
For the fifth time literally, for crying out loud, that is not what I said. What I said, is that in a legal sense in a society of laws, which we are, if a person is not convicted of a crime for which they are accused, unsolved in a legal sense, they didn't do it. Since you keep then insisting that a crime didn't happen, (which I never said btw but you keep interpreting that way) and also making reference to family members suffering from unsolved crimes, which then in your words didn't happen, one could interpret as possible that is some way shape or form you might have experienced these type of things 1st hand and have unresolved feelings on the issue, hence my previous suggestion.
[Link]
Rosco Fuji Deactivated User
On the licking stick, Mr. Magic Dick! 3309 Posts 2/09
Posted - Mar 6 2016 : 4:20PM
Never used the words mental illness, they're your words for dramatic effect. Your excessive comments about crime happening to family members is hardly talk about rape allegations amongst porn performers.
And again, I'm calling you out because that isn't true. If a person isn't convicted of a crime, in a legal sense, it means they aren't going to be punished in court for a crime. It doesn't mean they didn't do it.
MOD: Drop it. You may not have used those words to her but you certainly did say that to her. If you are going to be an asshole to posters you can cease posting in this thread.
^ Being a jerk to other members is a breach of forum etiquette. Being repetitious isn't. I mean, look at all the guys in the JJV thread who habitually ask when the next Feeding Frenzy is coming out.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Mar 6 2016 : 10:32PM
^^What's wrong with posting regularly in a thread? I probably have made more than 75 posts in Blacked's thread, because Blacked interests me. Similarly, those who post frequently on this thread do so because the thread topic interests them.
[Link]
TastyFilthyGirlStinkHoles Deactivated User
It just looks and feels so fucking good! 142 Posts 3/16
Posted - Mar 6 2016 : 10:55PM
I completely understand what you're saying! not sure why its so hard for people to grasp. If a person is found not guilty and are thus allowed to walk free from the prosecution, in a legal sense the crime was never committed by the accused - this must be stressed as a fact, if the accused is NOT found guilty, the accused "did not do it" according to the laws of the land. this is a fact. Nothing hard to understand here. It doesn't mean the crime didn't happen, it merely states if the accused is found not guilty, to all intents and purposes, under the law of the land, the accused person "didn't commit the crime"... for example, if a burglary takes place on a Friday evening in Detroit, and the accused is acquitted, even though the burglary did take place and property was stolen or damaged, the person accused legally didn't commit the burglary if found not guilty. Simple. Of course being found guilty =/= innocent of the crime. it does mean however, the accused is not responsible for the alleged crime, and thus legally didn't commit the crime. Edited by - TastyFilthyGirlStinkHoles on 3/6/2016 10:56:38 PM
^ If that were true, then winning civil cases (or even bringing them up) after losing criminal cases wouldn't be a thing. All not guilty means is that they won't be punished by the court. It might be because they didn't do it. It might be for some other reason, too.
^ Right, being found not guilty only means the state failed to prove guilt beyond reasonable doubt. O.J. Simpson was found not guilty for murder in a criminal court and found responsible for the wrongful death of his ex-wife and her friend in a civil court. Not going to trial certainly doesn't mean you didn't do the crime. Edited by - joey numbers on 3/6/2016 11:26:47 PM Edited by - joey numbers on 3/6/2016 11:30:27 PM
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Mar 6 2016 : 11:48PM
^^^Consider the following exchange I had with Rosco:What am I missing here? What I wrote does not seem to contradict your interpretation, but Rosco did not respond by saying "Yeah, that's what I meant." Edited by - misspornUSA on 3/6/2016 11:52:48 PM Edited by - misspornUSA on 3/7/2016 1:08:53 AM
[Link]
TastyFilthyGirlStinkHoles Deactivated User
It just looks and feels so fucking good! 142 Posts 3/16
Posted - Mar 6 2016 : 11:48PM
The point is clear and simple. Being found not guilty form a legality point of view means the accused was not found to have committed the crime. In other words, legally speaking they can walk free because "they didn't do it". very simple and clear. Legally, they didn't commit the crime, or else they would be behind bars. if you are not proved guilty beyond reasonable doubt you legally have not committed a crime.Once again, nobody said that at all lol I explicitly state, the crime could very well have been committed. But if the courts of law does not find you guilty beyond reasonable doubt, "you didn't commit the crime" form a legality point of view, very simple and concise. this is why a suspected criminal can walk the streets free of police harassment. Because from a legal perspective they didn't commit any crime. Even if they actually did physically commit the crime.
What you're saying doesn't contradict what I've been saying, except that even saying "legally innocent" is murky because criminal and civil courts are different and have different burdens of proof, so you can be found not guilty of something in a criminal court and still be found liable for it in a civil court. I'm really not even sure what point he's trying to make in this thread. The best I can come up with is "if he hasn't been convicted of anything, then we should just leave him alone", but then again the "court of public opinion" isn't an actual court and doesn't have to act like one.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Mar 7 2016 : 1:08AM
^I meant to type ^^^ instead of ^^ and will correct it. I think you're right about the point that Rosco is trying to get across, although I don't know why he choose to phrase himself in such a strange way.
[Link]
Canadian_Cindy Deactivated User
1102 Posts 2/15
Posted - Mar 7 2016 : 1:24AM
You are speaking about something being tried in court , and a person getting off from it. In that case, the person is welcome to say they didn't do it. My point is our friend is saying that if it never makes it through the legal system (unreported, person isn't caught, etc) then they by default didn't do anything and nothing happened. This is what I am debating against. There are plenty of guilty people in the world who just didn't get caught. In regards to rape, there are a significant majority of them that go unreported. This does not mean nothing happened or nobody committed a crime or nobody is guilty. Being proven guilty in court means you get a punishment. Evading capture and a legal process does not mean you are innocent, it just means you do not have to face society's punishments. If a guy rapes you and doesn't get caught, he still committed the crime. To say "nothing happened" just is not cutting it with me. PS - your creative nickname gave me a laugh.
James Deen @ AnalVids
Posted - Mar 3 2016 : 1:48PM
