You just suggested that sex workers lie about rape to a larger extent, as well as laughing at a performer describing abuse. This is getting rather obvious.
"I’m not allowed to say that ostracizing every male performer who’s crossed the line with a female performer would lead to a business with no male talent. I’ve lost track of my own stories." Sounds like a problem.
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klies Deactivated User
1733 Posts 5/09
Posted - Dec 5 2015 : 5:59PM
yes I think that. Wish there were some statistics to prove that to be true, or to prove me wrong. Please don't shame me for that. I hate it. I dont want to believe in things just because society has told me to or to be politically correct.
Yep, it does. Porn people are like everyone else and make mistakes all the time, but she might inadvertently be describing a systemic problem here. That's the larger issue, whatever happened here, there seems to be a pattern emerging about people misbehaving and being allowed to continue doing so.
^ I'd say that this case now goes far beyond the individuals involved. This is now a problem for the whole porn-industry and not just for James Deen and Stoya. Because all you need is some doubt to bring the whole porn-industry into disrepute. Just not being sure whether some women are being raped in porn-scenes or not is enough to turn off a lot of people from porn and perhaps get them to support anti-porn laws. Many female voters might especially go for this. And they make up more than half of all voters in the country, because women live longer than men, which leads to more women than men in older age. I'd say that the porn-industry now urgently needs to put into place some credible safeguards to prevent rape and rape accusations. Perhaps the lady should have a guy with her to look out for her safety and interests, when she goes to shoot a scene. And this guy needs to be independent from the studio making the film. Perhaps security guard agencies can provide a service like this.
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Ben Mockridge Deactivated User
382 Posts 9/15
Posted - Dec 5 2015 : 6:07PM
Id say that people wanna watch porn and dont care for all the domestics.
^ Porn used to be illegal a few decades ago, despite a lot of people wanting to see it. And it might become illegal again, if enough voters decide it this way. The thing about democracy is that it's actually a dictatorship of the majority. Whatever the majority decides, then that's the way it's going to be. And if you think the Constitution will protect your rights, then think again. Because it used to be unconstitutional for the US government to spy on everybody, but now the US government does it anyway through NSA.
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klies Deactivated User
1733 Posts 5/09
Posted - Dec 5 2015 : 6:22PM
Dec 5th, 2:04pm EDIT: re: statement about male performers crossing the line: When I’m on set, it’s my responsibility to speak up if I am not comfortable. If I choose not to, that’s on me. Porn is a full contact sport. And yes, sometimes guys get carried away. That makes them shitty people, not abusers or rapists. There is a difference.
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sparrow55 Deactivated User
82 Posts 11/15
Posted - Dec 5 2015 : 6:22PM
This was a point I was trying to make in this thread. Anyone that suggested that the allegation might be true is attacked viciously by the SJW and twitter militia(not as much on this thread). There are a lot of women that worked with Deen that could have posted something to support him but very few did. How much of it was respect for the victim, how much of it was avoiding the drama(as many people mentioned by now, it sounded a bit nutty) and how much of it was because they were scared of going against the bandwagon ?
When I said a single agenda, I was referencing to those who had already decided where they stood on Deen's behavior. Those who condemn him look at the information we currently have and sift through it to find those (tentative) facts that support their position. Information that undermines their already established position is downplayed or ignored. Contrariwise, those who stand by Deen behave in the exact opposite fashion. My point here is that in those for Deen or against him have their own agendas they are pursuing. I haven't made my mind up one way or the other, nor do I consider it likely that I will ever have enough real information to do so. I would prefer it otherwise, obviously, but I'm comfortable with the ambiguity. As to whether or not I think Deen would have more supporters come forward if he were really such a great performer -- I honestly have no idea. I can think of at least 4 reasons off the top of my head as to why someone wouldn't: 1) Apathetic self-interest. "I have nothing to gain by saying anything, therefore I will just keep quiet." 2) Fear: "I could lose work if I say anything, therefore I will just keep quiet." If that is a valid excuse for keeping abuse quiet, in the current climate it is certainly a valid excuse for keeping one's support quiet. 3) Perhaps James Deen actually requested that his particular circle of intimates not engage in any public debate. Deen himself has been very quiet this past week, perhaps on the advice of his lawyer. That is pure speculation of course without a drop of evidence to support it. One could further speculate, though, that perhaps Deen has asked that his friends no go public either. The flow of damning information has to stop at some point, and if Deen doesn't engage on the issue publicly it is certain to fall from view. 4) Deen has no friends. He is in fact so disliked that the small number of positive statements we've seen already are all that there are. That would be depressing for him, I'm sure. Adding to this list is just a matter of going further and further afield in one's speculations. The truth is, no valid conclusions can be drawn from the fact that most of Deen's scene partners have been notably silent. By the way...considering how long James Deen has been in the industry, and the sheer number of scenes he has done, and the sheer number of scene partners he has had, both groups of actresses -- those who've reported abuse and those who support him -- are vanishingly small. For now, I'll continue to wait. -----
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Ben Mockridge Deactivated User
382 Posts 9/15
Posted - Dec 5 2015 : 6:26PM
Ok so if deomocrats gain power and the porn sector gets anhihlated , what do you expect me to do about it ?
Apparently you are. You have been whining about this for several pages and yet we can all read it. You should try to listen to the criticism and try to understand instead of being a broken record whining about groups whose social and political views you dislike.
^ Prevention is better than a cure in this situation. Rather than wait for public opinion to turn against the porn-industry, it might be better to put in some safeguards for shooting porn scenes. If the lady gets to have an independent security guard to look out for her safety, while she is shooting her porn-scene, then this might prevent future rapes and rape accusations. The key word is 'independent'. It has to be some guy from a credible security agency that doesn't get influenced by the studio making the film. Edited by - Dan on 12/5/2015 6:33:57 PM
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klies Deactivated User
1733 Posts 5/09
Posted - Dec 5 2015 : 6:36PM
LOL I'd love to watch them make a funny video of a guard protecting a female performer during a sex scene, like the one they made for condom mandatory(???)....i dont exactly remember what it was for.
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Ben Mockridge Deactivated User
382 Posts 9/15
Posted - Dec 5 2015 : 6:37PM
sparrow55 Deactivated User
82 Posts 11/15
Posted - Dec 5 2015 : 6:41PM
Yeah, so much for some decency.. The first line was a quote from the casey calvery blog. Even my post was about the abilty to listen to opposite view points without attacking the other person and I get attacked by an idiot that did not even bother to read the post or the context .The irony cannot be ever more spot on. You should try English comprehension sometimes. It is a useful skill.
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06
Posted - Dec 5 2015 : 6:51PM
You were not attacked personally, yet you did attack JohnW personally. You speak of irony yet don't see the irony in your own posts. That is some next-level meta irony there. Well done.
I am confused by this post. By "TRPWL e-mail," do you mean this one titled "Industry Vet Gives His Thoughts On James Deen As Well As Deen’s Accusers UPDATED " and wherein Sean Tompkins specifically saysand wherein the "Industry Vet" says? (emphases mine) The reason I ask is that Casey Calvert is a woman (and Eli Cross' significant other) while the "Industry Vet" is described by Sean Tompkins as giving his thoughts and, indeed, specifically says "The men in the room aren't allowed into this public discussion; we're instantly discounted. This leaves at least two possibilities: a) Casey Calvert is a meticulous enough writer to remain in character as a male "Industry Vet" long enough to write an entire e-mail to several people who passed it to Sean Tompkins, b) Casey Calvert is not the one who wrote that "Industry Vet Gives his thoughts" e-mail to begin with. Another thing that has me questioning if this "Industry Vet" actually is Casey Calvert (and which, by the way, also makes me extremely skeptical of what this "Industry Vet" says) is the way this "Industry Vet" attacks Amber Rayne. For one thing, Eli Cross and Amber Rayne have been close friends and collaborators for a very long time. As per IAFD, Casey Calvert has only been in the business since 2012, about four years after Amber and Eli worked together on the filming of Icon, Black Rayne and The 8th Day--not to mention five years after Amber Rayne did BTS for Eli Cross' 2007 epic Corruption, as is detailed in this ADT podcast interview--which would cast doubts on the "Adult Industry Vet" being in a position to say "I’ve also known Amber long enough to know that she has an extremely tenuous ", if the "Adult Industry Vet" was, in fact, Casey Calvert. Specifically, the "Adult Industry Vet" says:I am about ready to chuck everything the "Adult Industry Vet"--whoever it turns out to be--says based on the above statement alone. Yes, I am a fan of Amber Rayne. One of the reasons I am a fan of Amber Rayne is that she has a reputation--dating way back to the pre-Measure B era when performers regularly engaged in flame wars with each other on Myspace, the Luke Ford site and Twitter--of being a thoroughly professional performer who was well liked by practically everyone in the industry--even the people who bashed almost every other performer they could name over at the Luke Ford site. Another glaring inaccuracy of the "Adult Industry Vet"'s words above about Amber is the specific bit "Just ask her 'where are you right now,' and you'll understand." Amber CONSTANTLY tweets what airport she is taking off from/landing at, and what city/country she is touring for her non-industry job. She tweeted photos of herself in Paris and in India and at the Hobbit village in New Zealand earlier this year. How are we supposed to believe the "Adult Industry Vet's" assertion that she is somehow mendacious because, according to the "Adult Industry Vet," her "tenuous relationship with the truth" will cause her to be untruthful about "where she is now,"--when she tweets live photographs of exactly what country/city she is in while on tour?
^ And here's where I'll have fun with you: I said I think we know who the industry vet is. I never said I think it's Casey. In fact, if anyone revealed who I think it is, it's you right now.
I do not know for sure. Maybe, like his fellow male feminists Richard "The Dick" Coughlan and Kevin Logan, he just repeated the party line often enough.
my guess for the male "industry vet" is eli cross though i had never heard of him till now i just checked his twitter and im basing it on the writing style and recent tweets and the link to casey who is taking the same stance
I seriously doubt it is Eli Cross. For one thing, as I have pointed out above, Eli and Amber have been friends and collaborators for years now. Corruption (2007), Icon, Black Rayne, The 8th Day. As Eli himself has said (although not about Amber specifically) in response to another scurilous Luke Ford hit piece on himPlus the following allusion to Amber at the time when both her long-term relationship with her real life boyfriend had ended and Eli's long relationship with Kylie Ireland had ended:Does this sound like the type of person who would then turn around and say "Amber has a tenuous relationship with the truth?" Eli Cross, yes, has been employed by James Deen several times between Upload and now. However, a) Eli Cross has never been one to kiss ass with any employer--witness how he named the bad guy in his next film after Bo Kenney after Kenney got into a hissy fit and fired him from SexZ pictures (which soon went tits up without Eli and Kylie running things) and witness how he openly admits that he split with Axel Braun because of differences here. b) 1) When Myspace was a thing and Eli and Kylie were a couple, they had a podcast, the Kylie Ireland show. In the January 2007 episode just after that year's AVN's, where Corruption won a ton of awards, Eli (and Kylie) ripped into Deen's behavior at the awards. Specifically, they pointed out how Joanna Angel (Deen's significant other at the time) showed up in a beautiful leopard-print retro-50's dress and "James fucking Deen" was standing there next to her in "jeans and a hoodie." Kylie said "How does she let him go out dressed like that?" Eli said "That is exactly what I was going to say! If I had dressed for the AVN's like that, you would have smacked me upside the head...and been thoroughly right to do so." b) 2) Deen had a part in Eli's next major film Upload. He was shown arriving to the Fallout Shelter in the BTS. Eli asked him "Do you know what your lines are? Do you know who you are playing today?" Deen did not have much by way of an answer. Eli was not impressed. As for the writing style of "Adult industry veteran", Eli Cross has been writing a very well read blog for about a decade now. ANY long time reader of Eli Cross would be well placed to perfectly mimic his writing his writing style to make their hit/shit pieces look like he was the one who wrote it.
^ Have you stopped to consider that the fact that Eli and Amber are friends is part of the reason he specifically said that Amber is the person he is most disappointed with in this situation? Edit: And I don't think he's posting/saying it to "kiss ass" with James. I think he's saying it because he's known James for over 7 years now (by your own admission) and considers him a friend and doesn't think he did what he's being accused of doing. If anything, what you're posting tells me that if he actually thought James had done this (or that James' behavior was particularly out of line), then wouldn't be afraid to call James out on it. Edited by - whatsatelephonebill on 12/5/2015 9:23:32 PM
the more info u post the more i am convinced it was him i think he will claim it soon if he wanted to remain anonymous he should have written in a lower register that the average porn mope would use he has a very distinct tone of writing and i think its unlikely that some other porn star intentionally studied his blog to mimic it for this
The problem with the above assertion is that Eli's recent tweets have only made two very elliptical allusions to this situation and have overwhelmingly been focused on arguing with some religionist who asserts that religions do not cause war. And, if you had never heard of him until now, Eli Cross has written a very well-read blog for over a decade now, one particular blog post of which he reposted here at ADT <iwaaaay back in 2006</i. ANYONE who has read enough of his blog posts over the past decade or so could mimic his writing style. Not to mention, yet again, that Eli Cross and Amber Rayne have been good friends and collaborators for about a decade now, which raises serious doubts about him saying that Amber "has a tenuous relationship with the truth."
"Disappointed", yes. "She has a tenuous relationship with the truth," no.He publicly ripped Deen for showing up to the 2007 AVNs in jeans and a hoodie. In the Upload BTS, he is clearly dismayed when Deen rolls into the Fallout Shelter not knowing his lines and not even knowing who he is playing. That does not fit the description of a "friend." It does fit the description of "someone you have to work with." While Eli was over at AVN, he had to work with Gene Ross. No one would ever accuse Eli and Ross of ever being "friends."
1) You mean about Eli and Kylie's break up coinciding in time with Amber Rayne breaking up with her long-term boyfriend? Eli blogged about his break up openly (although very professionally not turning it into a public mud-slinging flame war), and Amber tweeted about her break-up at the time. 2) About Eli implicitly including Amber in the category of "Working with the same people over and over again 'despite my temper'" in response to Ford's hit piece? In the ADT interview podcast with Amber, she says she did BTS for Corruption, which was directed by Eli Cross...and whose launch party was crashed by Luke Ford causing Eli to write the blog in question. 3) About the Kylie Ireland Show Podcast wherein Eli and Kylie rip into Deen for showing up to the 2007 AVN's dressed in jeans and a hoodie? That was on Kylie Ireland's very public Myspace of the time. 4) About Eli being thoroughly unimpressed with Deen showing up to the Fallout Shelter for his part of Upload not knowing his lines or even the name of his character? That is visible in the Upload BTS. Edited by - White1970DodgeChallenger on 12/5/2015 9:39:06 PM Edited by - White1970DodgeChallenger on 12/5/2015 9:40:16 PM
You're taking comments made 8 years ago to show that they aren't friends now. People and their relationships do change over time. He and James have worked together a lot in the 8 years since, and it's absolutely inside the realm of possibility that over that time, they have become friends.
Where do we all see this going,all sorts have came out from the initial tweet from Stoya.Since then its been people coming out in support of Stoya then people defending James etc.
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06
Posted - Dec 5 2015 : 9:54PM
I don't know Mr Cross, or much about him, but from what little I've read of his over the last hour or so, I think the tone of the anonymous Industry Vet seems way too passive-aggressive to be Eli. Eli doesn't seem to be the type to back away from controversy or confrontation. Regardless of who wrote it, it's pretty much worthless until somebody claims it.
While Casey hasn't claimed the e-mail, she's pretty much claimed its arguments as her own. The only difference is that she focuses on Stoya specifically, while the e-mail talks about all the allegations.
I thought the aside in the anonymous email along the lines of, "I can't believe I'm siding with Lisa Ann!" gave away who the author was. But maybe I'm wrong.
You're missing the point. The comments you are referring to about James were 8 years ago. Are you telling me that you're absolutely sure that his opinion on James hasn't changed in the last 8 years? Oh yeah, I forgot to mention something. A while ago, Eli did a non-porn movie called Cowboys & Engines. You want to know what performer was out there front and center promoting Cowboys & Engines while it was being crowdfunded, and is a producer on the movie? James Deen. Edited by - whatsatelephonebill on 12/5/2015 10:21:36 PM
Again, Eli Cross worked in the same office as Gene Ross. Look what he says about him now. Yes, James Deen is a producer of C&E. Bo Kenney was signing Eli's paychecks when Eli was the head director of SexZ Pictures. When Kenney got butthurt about Eli helping out Ren Savant on The 8th Day and fired him, Eli cleverly gave a bad guy in his next movie a name that resembled Kenney's. If Eli Cross has something to say one way or another about James Deen/Stoya, he is not going to be shy and anonymous about it. It is just not in his nature. For example, here is a comment he made about how he views/is viewed by others in the industry:Does this sound at all like someone who needs to hide behind anonymity when he has something to say?
James Deen @ Adult Empire
Posted - Dec 5 2015 : 5:52PM
