^And you just showed another double standard. You write off a detailed account that defends JD as "oh look some anonymous is defending him"(like it's a miracle that somebody would stick up for somebody who is falsely accused) but when you look at the thread from a couple of days ago where an anonymous poster(who joined that day) made another claim about something Deen allegedly did at Julesjordan, a thread where not one but two producers of the company called out and refuted the made up story, people like you were defending those claims, some even after it was already refuted by the people in the business! Goodness, that story has it so right. "who will believe you?". That is so sadly true for men.
Even if the allegations turn out to be untrue/exaggerated (which is less likely every day with more girls coming out), he will find it difficult to move on and stop his tarnished image. Reading his blogs, he always seemed very misogynistic and creepy to me.
"if it is false he will find it difficult to move on and stop his tarnished image" And you make this statement without stating or even hinting at how insanely messed up that would be. It shows your true stance on this.
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IkeMan Deactivated User
40 Posts 12/15
Posted - Dec 5 2015 : 10:09AM
Let's not forget that so called "sex-positive feminists" actually liked the rapey aggressiveness of James Deen. Just saying.
that's a different thing. I'm only saying that, IF Stoya is saying the truth, she has all the rights to use a media like Twitter to tell the world that the most famous porn actor celebrated as a feminist is actually a rapist. But if we want to discuss the fact that on Twitter it's also easy to defame someone I can agree on that, it could be a problem and I don't have a solution, but I don't think that it's a problem of someone saying the truth. About the fact that she could use twitter but not report the fact to the police, as I've said I can be wrong but I think that the police can do anything in a case like this. It could have been useful if she's been injuried the day before, in that case you could have a proof of what happened (and still you should demonstrate that it was a rape, since they were in a relationship), but I suspect that after a year or more to report this to the authorities is completely useless.
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06
Posted - Dec 5 2015 : 10:41AM
I won't speak for anybody else, but 1) I'm not taking any anonymous claims seriously. Whether they be for or against Deen. 2) There is a huge difference between someone saying "he abused/assaulted/raped me" (1st person accounts) and "He's an asshole but he would never do that, also she's a crazy bitch." (character statement that neither confirms, nor refutes the other stories." The John Doe "industry vet" (if he is a real person) may very well know what a crazy wacko Stoya is. Crazy people can still be raped so that changes nothing. He may know that she sent texts to Deen, threatening to out him as a rapist. People who were raped could very well do that, especially if they are as mentally unstable as John Doe tries to portray her, so that changes nothing. If I take everything stated in that post at face value, then there is literally nothing there that would indicate that Deen hasn't done what is alleged. The only purpose that letter had was to smear the names of the people making accusations of Deen and paint them in a less sympathetic light. (and without the slightest hint of irony or self awareness, bitch about how men can't come forward to talk about the subject because of the stigma attached, all while ignoring why women don't always come forward with rape claims immediately, often because of the stigma attached.) At the end of the day, the only two people that know if that encounter turned into rape are Deen and Stoya. Nothing will ever prove it one way or another. Not a judge, not a jury, not whole room full of lawyers can change that. We're all just guessing. Edited by - murdock on 12/5/2015 10:41:32 AM
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Ben Mockridge Deactivated User
382 Posts 9/15
Posted - Dec 5 2015 : 10:52AM
The danger lies in validating womens' "right" to make rape allegations on twitter and not to the cops. The idea that its somehow a womans perogative to have the right to throw out rape accusations on twitter willy nilly without any expectaion to refer them to legal scrutiny is a dangerous precedent. Both for you guys who stand to get accused and for women who want rape to be treated seriously. The question is why report it to twitter and expressely not to the cops ? It cant be because shes a shrinking violet who is too bashful to answer questions about her lady parts. There is an expectation that rape allegations should be made to the police for good reason and there is good reason that allegations that an accuser is unwilling to formally make to the cops are allegations that everyone should take with a large pinch of salt. If a person is unwilling to submit allegations for proper legal scrutiny whereby they may potentially be disproved that should raise alarm bells. For sure let women make rape allegations on twitter so that we are dizzy with all the claim and counterclaims - theres no judicial standard , noway of verifying authenticity , all it does is destroy peoples reputations with absolutely no dependence on guilt or innocence. Its simply a wrong turn. Women may have the right to make randon rape allegations on twitter but we should not validate it by giving credence to the practice is all im saying. Edited by - ben mockridge on 12/5/2015 11:11:58 AM
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Rosco Fuji Deactivated User
On the licking stick, Mr. Magic Dick! 3309 Posts 2/09
Posted - Dec 5 2015 : 11:09AM
Well, since no one has filed any charges, it won't be settled in a court other than of public opinion.
" why report it to twitter and expressely not to the cops ?" I've already answered to this. I'll say again what I think: because I think that the cops in a case like this can't do absolutely nothing. While this way she has obtained exactly that the person she know as a rapist can't damage other persons. And saying that she's not a "shrinking violet" you're presuming too much. The sensitivity of a person is a complex thing. Even if it sounds a bit ridiculous to me, there are many girls and men who can perform anything on screen but they will never tell their real age (not their name, but their age). So why should I find difficult to believe that to deal with a rape, and relative sense of guilt and shame should be different? Edited by - leatherface on 12/5/2015 11:14:22 AM
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06
Posted - Dec 5 2015 : 11:20AM
Don't try and link the two. They have absolutely nothing to do with each other, nor should they. One is an issue of judicial prudence, the other is an issue of free speech. The expectation that a woman should always report her rape to the police simply ignore the reality of the world we live in, specifically that the justice system has some inherent flaws that make this very specific type of crime very difficult to deal with. To what end is Stoya obligated to file a police report? Is it purely a clerical issue? We want to make sure that there is an official record of the event? Is it for justice? That's unfortunately not going to happen in this case. Again the justice system is flawed. Unless Deen confesses, there is literally no way in the world that a conviction would take place. Zero. Other than the alleged victim and accuser, there are no witnesses, and no way to verify who is telling the truth. The presumption of innocence will lead to an acquittal 100% of the time in a case like this if it ever went to trial (which it wouldn't because there isn't a DA in the country that would pursue the case) So if Stoya was raped, what recourse does she actually have? The justice system is guaranteed to fail her in this case. Does that mean she is forever banned from speaking of the event in public? Other than being overrun by idiots, what makes Twitter so special as a venue that she can't talk about it there? I'm not saying that she absolutely should or shouldn't go to the cops. I'm not saying she absolutely does or doesn't have the right to make accusations on Twitter. What I am trying to demonstrate is that these issues are far more complex than many people here are trying to portray them. I
@ Leatherface. I understand what your saying. The cops can most likely do nothing. So why bother reporting it to the police when you can far easier achieve your goal by posting allegations on twitter. Fair points. All i will say is that it is only worth posting allegations on twitter because people (misguided people imho) are willing to believe then unquestioningly. If people are willing to pull the rug out from under the justice system and believe twitter gossip then the people get the society they deserve.
These are basically fanboys who like the kind of rough stuff Deen does and will never change their minds no matter what evidence or pattern emerges. They don't care what happened to Stoya or any one else, they want to see more videos of him doing whatever he does and do not care for anything else.
I think a lot of people were way to quick to start burning Deen at the stake, but over the week, the number of stories that have come out from known performers makes it pretty evident (to me at least) that he was an abusive personality with no respect for boundaries. I also think it's unfortunate that the a few of his defenders have gone with the classic "flaky porn chick" as a dismissal of the claims against him. At this point even if she were full of shit (which I doubt) it still leaves us with an awful lot other examples from girls in the industry that paint him as someone that should not put in a position were lines are so easy to cross.
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06
Posted - Dec 5 2015 : 12:01PM
^ Get out of here with your "reason" and "logic." The mob has no use for such things. /sarcasm
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IkeMan Deactivated User
40 Posts 12/15
Posted - Dec 5 2015 : 12:19PM
It's pretty obvious that it's a thin and increasingly blurry line between the two. Which instance is supposed to separate the two? It's the individuals who engage in "rough sex", who must ensure that they are comfortable with what they do. But if the style of sex they choose is based on the premise that the man is supposed to act rough, aggressively and dominant towards the woman - then it's pretty hard to define where the exact line lies, that is not supposed to be crossed. Pretty logical - not very abstract. The premise is: the woman wants the man to act aggressively towards her. So, when the man does, he's in danger of crossing the line, because he could unwillingly go one step too far, despite the fact that both partners engaged in consensual aggressive sex. What is so hard to understand about this very reasonable train of thought!
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klies Deactivated User
1733 Posts 5/09
Posted - Dec 5 2015 : 12:22PM
In some countries even consensual sex can be called Rape. even god doesnt know the true definition of rape. one day even staring at woman for more than 10 sec will be called rape. It was much simpler in the past but now thanks to feminists things have gone beyond insane, but since they are not on the receiving end they dont really care. Edited by - klies on 12/5/2015 12:23:32 PM
It is hard to define, which is why those who regularly engage in rough sex agree on a 'safe word' beforehand. Whenever that word is spoken the other party knows that he, or she, should stop.
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klies Deactivated User
1733 Posts 5/09
Posted - Dec 5 2015 : 12:35PM
Don't want to say here. But can PM any mod with news report from my country to prove I am not lying.
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sparrow55 Deactivated User
82 Posts 11/15
Posted - Dec 5 2015 : 12:40PM
An asshole is different from a rapist. A scumbag is different from a rapist. An abusive personality is different a rapist. Twitter allegations are a farce and make a mockery of other rape allegations due to drama they create. Saying that is not defending Deen. Look at Patrick Kane's case.. Google it up.
What is happening or ending on December 17th? Stoya has said she will say more after the 17th and Princess Donna has also said she will say more after the 17th. Princess Donna also indicated that lawyers have told her not to speak. Edited by - MV007 on 12/5/2015 12:53:23 PM
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06
Posted - Dec 5 2015 : 12:58PM
^ I didn't suggest that you did. I asked if you were under that impression. So... are you under that impression? Edited by - murdock on 12/5/2015 12:59:47 PM
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klies Deactivated User
1733 Posts 5/09
Posted - Dec 5 2015 : 1:02PM
^ what made you think I am under that impression? I know. just trying to fight stupidity with stupidity Edited by - klies on 12/5/2015 1:03:53 PM
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06
Posted - Dec 5 2015 : 1:09PM
Don't call me stupid just because you seem to have a language barrier. Are you under the impression that Stoya's alleged rape took place in your country? It isn't a hard question. It isn't a leading question. It's a very simple question. Are you under that impression or not.
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klies Deactivated User
1733 Posts 5/09
Posted - Dec 5 2015 : 1:11PM
^ And I repeat - what made you think I am under that impression? It isn't a hard question.
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06
Posted - Dec 5 2015 : 1:15PM
I don't have an opinion if you do or don't. That's why I'm asking, not making an assumption. SO AGAIN I'LL ASK... Are you under the impression that Stoya's alleged rape took place in your country?
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klies Deactivated User
1733 Posts 5/09
Posted - Dec 5 2015 : 1:19PM
^ ok then. No, I am not under that impression. Still a weird question to ask out of nowhere. Please don't ask me now if I have seen Aliens.
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06
Posted - Dec 5 2015 : 1:24PM
^^ Thank you. So if you don't think that Stoya's alleged rape took place in your country, what do your country's bizarre rape laws have to do with anything? I'm under the impression that the alleged rape took place in the US (since both people are residents of this country) and the definition of "rape" is very clear here. It is non-consensual sex. The issue here isn't knowing what rape is or isn't. The issue is determining consent, and whether or not that can be proven. If Stoya wasn't consenting, then it absolutely was rape. You, I or anyone else here will never know if she was consenting or not. Edited by - murdock on 12/5/2015 1:24:25 PM
Are you serious? It can't be more simple than that: lack of consent.
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klies Deactivated User
1733 Posts 5/09
Posted - Dec 5 2015 : 1:27PM
Now you are changing your answer. I knew it. Guess correctly why I made that reply about the bizarre rape laws in my country and win a candy. Believe me this will be the easiest candy win of your life.
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06
Posted - Dec 5 2015 : 1:29PM
I didn't change my answer. I simply added a follow-up question. As to your proposition: You did it to create a strawman argument in defense of Deen. I prefer Reese Cups. Thanks.
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klies Deactivated User
1733 Posts 5/09
Posted - Dec 5 2015 : 1:30PM
^ that stupid follow-up question was your intention from the beginning. I prefer no cup. thanks Edited by - klies on 12/5/2015 1:31:06 PM
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IkeMan Deactivated User
40 Posts 12/15
Posted - Dec 5 2015 : 1:32PM
Care to elaborate? Also, are you suggesting I'm a rape apologist? To me it seems rather that the so called "feminists" who celebrated "James Deen" for his rapey porn are fans of rape scenarios. On the other hand: I'm not into this kind of stuff.
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klies Deactivated User
1733 Posts 5/09
Posted - Dec 5 2015 : 1:34PM
Yeah, it should be that simple. But it isnt, everywhere. :(
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06
Posted - Dec 5 2015 : 1:35PM
Of course that was my intention from the beginning. You didn't ask about my intention. You inquired about a question that I never asked. The larger point here is that you're trying to bring up irrelevant, unsubstantiated anecdotes and trying to excuse Deen's alleged behavior. Those excuses don't hold water.
I'm a fan of horror movies too, but I guarantee you that I've never really thought to use a chainsaw with girls.
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klies Deactivated User
1733 Posts 5/09
Posted - Dec 5 2015 : 1:42PM
No. I just said that in some countries even consensual sex can be termed as rape in few scenarios. I remember I clearly mentioned "some countries" though I didnt say "not US" but I think it was obvious that I was talking about a country not US, which I thought is something some people would be interested in knowing. If you werent then its your problem. There is no larger point here. You are just a weird guy going all out to prove stoya is right. I just shared something I thought some people would be interested in knowing. Be a sherlock holmes somewhere else. Edited by - klies on 12/5/2015 1:43:41 PM
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06
Posted - Dec 5 2015 : 1:48PM
And again, I'll ask... What countries? What statutes? If you want to discuss it, then let's discuss it. I was the first one to show interest in the tangent you went off on. As soon as I did, you tried to shut the conversation down. So do you want to talk about rape laws in other countries or not?
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06
Posted - Dec 5 2015 : 1:52PM
Yes, let's do that. You can start by sharing what countries and what statutes you're referring too. I feel like I've already asked that only to get repeatedly shut-down or ignored.
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IkeMan Deactivated User
40 Posts 12/15
Posted - Dec 5 2015 : 1:55PM
This is really a bad metaphor. This debate is not about movies, but about sex between individuals. But for the arguments sake: Women in porn are in fact penetrated, it's not a mock-up or special effects like in horror movies. So a woman who gets aggressively penetrated in porn, does really get aggressively penetrated. So when so called "feminists" actually celebrate this and even admire the perpetrator, then they obviously like the idea of women being treated like objects and being abused - because that's what these scenarios are about. 2. The line is obviously not "as huge as any line possibly can be" - you want a man to dominate you, treat you aggressively and quasi-rape you, but you don't want him to actually rape you? How is a man supposed to know what considers rape to you, if you want to be quasi-raped? Let's all use reason and common sense and not have a ideological, but an open and constructive debate about the issue! Rhetorical figures like "the line is as huge as any line possibly can be", without supporting such a bold and unfounded statement with any reasoning, is absolutely senseless and counter-productive to this important debate!
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Ben Mockridge Deactivated User
382 Posts 9/15
Posted - Dec 5 2015 : 1:55PM
@ Klies , please stop shutting down and ignoring Murdock , you know how sensitive he is.
For what I know the only scenario where consensual sex can be considered a rape is that with an adult and a underage person. But in that case it's because people think that the underage person can't express a real consent. So even in that case we're still talking of consent.
James Deen @ AnalVids
Posted - Dec 5 2015 : 9:13AM
