yes it does, because if one consider the possibility that she's been actually raped, she's not damaging an innocent, she's telling to everybody what he did to her.
Tell me what you think the police could have done about a story of consensual sex where at a point she wanted to stop and he didn't more than a year after the fact.
Actually, Twitter too.I am unaware of any rape case being brought against Bill Clinton. Impeachment, yes. Rape, no.Except for the very recent Sulkowicz case. Except for the questionable recent (as in this year) accusations against Jameis Winston. Except for Kamilah Willingham's allegations that another Harvard Law student raped her, which were debunked by nineteen Harvard Law professors less than a month ago. Let me reiterate that I am not taking up for either Stoya or Deen. However, reports of what have happened between them are not happening in a vacuum and it would be foolish to pretend that they were. Instead of getting all wound up when people point out highly public recent rape accusation hoaxes, perhaps everyone's energies would be better directed towards writing and re-writing Mayors/City Councilmen/Sheriffs/County Executives/Aldermen/Governors and whatever politician has jurisdiction over the Parks Police and other federal LEAs that do patrol and telling said elected politicians to issue direct orders in writing to every Law Enforcement Commissoner/Deputy Commissioner/Deputy Sheriff/Special Assistant Deputy Commissioner/Inspector/Superintendent/Captain/Lieutenant/Sergeant in their jurisdiction to thoroughly investigate EVERY rape allegation made to them IRRESPECTIVE of whatever the result such an investigation may and will have on the CompStat/FUDGESTAT figures/image/tourism of that jurisdiction.
Again, this case is not even remotely similar to the UVA hoax, this is similar to Bill Cosby allegations because of MULTIPLE accusations which follows a similar pattern. This is not about a WOMAN, this is about WOMEN accusing him of assault with CORROBORATION by others who were on the set who witnessed it, this is not some anonymous uncorroborated hoax.
There are lot of Fox News watchers on twitter.No case has been brought against Deen either. And the impeachment wasn't for rape or rape accusations.Now should I list rape cases reported that were verified and prosecuted. My list of 'except for' can go on much much longer if we are playing that game, I am not sure you will be up for it.The claims against Deen have been verified by other members on the set, this is not some one off accusation hoax as you trying to make it out to be.
^ Just so we're clear on this: Two claims have been generally verified. Amber Rayne (we've been aware that something happened during that scene since the DVD was released, I just don't think we knew what it was) and Lily Labeau. No other accusation has actually been verified, even the other on-set one (Kora Peters).
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TrumanBurbank Deactivated User
890 Posts 2/12
Posted - Dec 4 2015 : 8:07PM
I believe this completely. Stoya is a fucking psycho. Deen is a douchebag for sure. But not a rapist. No way. Guy has had his life destroyed. Stay away from crazy bitches people. No matter how hot they are.
There are also lots of non-Fox news watchers on twitter. Just because someone does not march blindly in lockstep with the flavor of the month, that does not make them a Fox news watcher.Yet. The report is only days old.It was a criminal accusation that went to its version of a trial nevertheless.That would tend to rather directly contradict what you said here Stoya accuses James Deen of rape aboutAgain, I have not commented specifically about either side of the Stoya-Deen situation, and have indeed made it clear that I am not in a position to speak about that situation specifically. All I did was point out the general climate it which it came up. Nothing happens in a vacuum. It is, at this stage, still possible (i.e. has not been completely ruled out beyond a shadow of a doubt) that Stoya could indeed be telling the truth. My point is that, unfortunately, thanks to the antics of Sabrina Rubin Erdely, Emma Sulkowicz, the accuser of Jameis Winston and Kamilah Willingham, in the case that Stoya is indeed telling the truth, she will not get as sympathetic a reaction from the general public as she would had it not been for Erdely, Sulkowicz and Willingham's sensationalism and creative writing. Edited by - White1970DodgeChallenger on 12/4/2015 8:26:20 PM Edited by - White1970DodgeChallenger on 12/4/2015 8:29:33 PM
That was not even the point, the point was your use of 'lot of people are saying' phrase. That is standard operating procedure on Fox. Some say Obama is a Muslim kind of reporting.And? Why bring up case then?No, there were no criminal accusations. He was impeached for lying, nothing to do with rape or assault.No, because they were DIFFERENT points.;Of course you haven't, you are as I pointed out earlier, trying to 'poison the well'. Someone is accused of rape and you say, well but what about this hoax rape story and let's try to malign the accuser as another hoaxer. Doesn't work on me or any rational thinker.
But if she hasn't been raped, she is damaging an innocent. The clue here is, we don't know. Even if she was raped, and her accusation is true, which is a possibility, she should've gone to the right authorities, and not use a social-media plattform to "report it". I don't get how you came to the conclusion that I believe Deen, my point with that post had nothing to do with that. I don't believe anyone because I have no substantial reason to believe one over the other. This should be taken seriously by the authorities and a real investigation is needed by professionals, not a witchhunt on twitter with all kind of gossip. Everyone would've known what Deen did or didn't do after a trial anyway, there's no need to use twitter to get your message through. But if you don't trust the justice department, well then I guess twitter witchhunt is as good as any investigation...
the possibility that she would threaten someone using the rape card is horrible (and the girl who worked for Deen mentioned it too), I really hope it's not true. Anyway I wonder why should I take everything is written here as the truth... it's just another article and the guy talks like he lives in the house with James Deen and his girlfriends, for instance: "AND AT NO TIME DID HE RAPE HER. EVER" (how does he know it?). Or: "I’ve been in porn long enough to know that James sitting on a girl’s chest holding her down and punching her in the face in the middle of a working shoot simply didn’t happen. That’s just not the real world." (so it could happen that during a scene where he wasn't supposed to perform at Upper floor can slap a girl so hard like Lily LaBeau tells but the other fact isn't possible?). Edited by - leatherface on 12/4/2015 9:09:16 PM
Your response is contradictory. You say anyone who disagrees with you is a Fox watcher, than say that watching Fox news is not the point.Not sure I understand your question.He was accused of perjury and obstruction of justice, both of which are criminal accusations.In your first post, you said that complaints about rape "never go anywhere". In your second post, you said you had an unlimited amount of incidents of complaints about rape going all the way to a conviction. Both of these cannot be true. They are mutually exclusiveNowhere did I say "let's try to malign Stoya." In fact, in my last post in this thread, I very clearly stated that, at this time, the possibility of Stoya telling the truth has not been ruled out. The point I actually am trying to make is that Stoya is going to have a difficult time about this because of Erdely, Sulkowicz and Willingham. I have nothing at all against Stoya one way or another since there is not enough evidence one way or another. I do have a problem with Erdely, Sulkowicz, Willingham and other creative writers making life even more difficult for actual rape victims.
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sparrow55 Deactivated User
82 Posts 11/15
Posted - Dec 4 2015 : 9:19PM
Let me ask you the flip side. How can he prove that he did not rape her or that she is exaggerating the situation ?
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sparrow55 Deactivated User
82 Posts 11/15
Posted - Dec 4 2015 : 9:23PM
Saying that complaints would go nowhere is being disingenuous. Yes, rape convictions are not as many as they could be but acting as if there is rape endemic and portraying that police do not care about raped women is blatantly false. I would bet that women now in the western world have the most protection they ever had as a gender at any time in the history of the world. And when you consider the ever expanding definition of the word rape(drunk consent is rape, she did not say no, she did not explicitly say yes, she said yes, but she was drunk, both were drunk, he did not use a condom, she froze up at the moment) in an openly sexual society, most situations come to he said, she said situation unless you are also taping the session. Rape is supposed to be a traumatic event and violation of the someone's mind and body. It isn't regret. It isn't a publicity tool. Posting on twitter made a mockery of the situation. Had she gone to police, even then a small percentage of people would doubt her allegations. That is inevitable. But by posting on Twitter, not only did she instigate a social media lynch mob on Deen, she also made sure she got as much exposure as she could in such situation for her and for her new site(that she owns with kayden). The way she did it is definitely calculated. Her actions only led credence to the false accusations theory which would never have happened if she filed a police report and other actresses came forward after that(like in many other situations). Twitter is a drama instigating tool. She just made the loudest noise that she can because that is what she wanted. By the utterly tacky way she went about this situation, she When was the last time a pornstar made a rape allegation and wasn't taken seriously ? Christy mack was supported by the entire industry. Cytherea was supported. This industry commodotizes sex acts. There is a large section of fans that only like to watch rough sex acts. There are sites like kink which are physically demanding(slapping, sticks etc) and look demeaning to women but is accepted by mainstream porn. Women demeaning themselves or men demeaning them is a part of the fantasy they sell. Acts like choking, slapping, spitting have become pretty common in all regular porn. When you have such an industry, acts like rape should be handled with more responsibility than in the normal scenario. I do not see one single male talent in the industry that can come and support Deen even if he wanted to in the current rape frenzy that is going on. And it is not the clever thing to do either. If I were one of the industry, I would do the same thing because that is blatantly the safe option instead of taking risk and getting lumped together with a "rapist". People want to be politically correct so much that you cannot even tell people that the proper procedure is to report to police. The procedure exists for a reason.
http://therealpornwikileaks.com/industry-vet-gives-his-thoughts-on-james-deen-as-well-as-deens-accusers-updated/ This post actually articulated my opinions in a better way.
This is getting ridiculous, that's not even remotely what I said, try to read what I actually wrote before replying or stop replying to me.First, congrats on googling it. Second, the point you are making now is not the point you made before. Again, nice try.No they aren't. Sexual assault with physical and corraborative accounts get prosecuted - the kind of assault Stoya bought up don't. Again, NUANCE is important.Yes, you haven't yet try to malign Stoya DIRECTLY, indireclty you gave it a shot and got called out. It was a good try as I said, but too common a tactic. And your 'actual' rape victims comment makes it pretty clear what your intentions here are. Thanks for your concern, it's attitude like yours is why many don't come forward.
Edited by - deadman on 12/4/2015 9:30:56 PM
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sparrow55 Deactivated User
82 Posts 11/15
Posted - Dec 4 2015 : 9:30PM
Particularly true for Joanna, Ashley Fires, Labeau.http://therealpornwikileaks.com/industry-vet-gives-his-thoughts-on-james-deen-as-well-as-deens-accusers-updated/if this is true and those texts are released, this would discredit any rape allegations in the near future. Edited by - sparrow55 on 12/4/2015 9:36:38 PM
And you know this how? Are you speaking from experience?Those were violent acts with PHYSICAL evidence, cases like Stoya's which happen in consensual relationships are HARDER to prosecute.I get it, you like those acts and Deen is among your favorite who do such acts which is the reason you are defending them. I can care less for what the industry does or what you prefer, Deen is no exception to workplace safety no matter what industry it is. He deservers whatever is coming to him.Nobody takes that troll site seriously.
sparrow55, I agree with a lot of what you wrote here. I am just going to discuss the part I do not 100% agree with and explain why I do not 100% agree with.I would say to this that "police" is not nearly as monolithic a term as is made out to be these days. There are ordinary patrolmen and detectives, then there are house-mouse white shirts (Sergeants, Lieutenants, Captains, Inspectors, Assistant Deputy Commissioners, Deputy Commissioners, Commissioners, Chiefs), the latter group being the police version of the military's REMFs. Most of the former very much want to believe and help all crime victims, including rape victims, see criminals brought to justice. The vast majority of the latter are simply concerned with ticket-punching their way to their next promotion to the point where they have attained a rank that gets them their own driver and a regular invitation to lunch at a swanky restaurant with politicians of the non-uniformed variety. The big problem with reports of rape in many jurisdictions, at least in America, today, is that these jurisdictions use this egg-head Harvard Management School-crapped out toy officially called "CompStat" to, ostensibly, "give an accurate measure of criminal activity in their area of responsibility." IRL, patrolmen and ordinary detectives call CompStat "FUDGESTAT" because Sergeants, Lieutenants, Captains, Inspectors, Assistant Deputy Commissioners, Deputy Commissioners, Commissioners, Chiefs divert this toy into a ticket-punching mechanism to show they are "good police managers" with "evidence that crime is down in their sector," thus rendering them "excellent material for the position of" their next promotion. To my mind, anyone who is serious about combatting rape would, instead of whinging when someone points out the recent highly public series of rape story hoaxes, write their municipal, local, and federal elected representatives and tell said representatives to issue direct orders in writing to every police REMF from Chief to Sergeant to thoroughly investigate any claims of rape, IRRESPECTIVE of the impact such investigation will have on the municipality/State/Federal department's CompState figures/image/tourism numbers.
I don't have all day to argue semantics or read troll sites like 'pornwikileaks' whose only motive is to damage the porn industry. Take it as you want, we can debate based on facts or one can argue based on logical fallacies. I have made it clear that I wont do the second. Edited by - deadman on 12/4/2015 9:50:29 PM
You made an issue of the Fox thing, then said watching Fox is irrelevant.Didn't Google it. Remembered it. I was around back then.My point has not changed.Excerpts from the <b<iState v. Borthwick</i</b AppealNow you are putting words in my mouth and making appeals to motivation. I very clearly stated that I am not commenting specifically about Stoya or Deen one way or another since there is not enough evidence. I do not know how plainer I can say this.
Except sparrow55 never said 'pornwikileaks' (the site run by the guy hiding from extradition in Thailand.) He said Stoya accuses James Deen of rapea site run by industry advocates Michael Whiteacre and Sean Tompkins who have tirelessly defended the industry against the likes of AHF, Shelley Lubben, and Gail Dines as well as well known industry rejects and failures who now spend 24-7 whinging about an industry that is located all the way on the other coast from where said whingers are currently located.
Let's try this again: a blustering, quarrelsome, overbearing person who habitually badgers and intimidates smaller or weaker people. Do I think Deen is smaller or weaker than Stoya? Nope. You've heard of the bully pulpit right? Yes, I have, and I actually know the definition, but I'll give you a more authoritative source: "a public office or position of authority that provides its occupant with an outstanding opportunity to speak out on any issue." (dictionary.com) Given the correct definition, I don't see the relevance of your question. Again, I'm not interested in a trial-by-internet; so please don't construe my posts as supporting either Deen or Stoya. I'm posting simply to expose some of the fallacies in certain statements that have been made.
In reading all of the links and info, this thing has gotten super-muddy...and I honestly don't know where to stand on it, any more. Pulling out (...pardon the pun...).
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klies Deactivated User
1733 Posts 5/09
Posted - Dec 4 2015 : 11:14PM
Bully word was there in the original article. He used that word and I simply reused what he used. English is not everone's first language so forgive me if I used a word which seems incorrect to you. Though I feel there was no need for you to point that out.
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06
Posted - Dec 5 2015 : 12:13AM
Cool. So it looks like Deen was in the right all along. Let's flip the script and see how well that's received... He should have gone to the authorities when Stoya started threatening him. I can't hardly believe he would wait this long to make his case. What's taking him so long? All he's doing is showing that it's okay for women to make false rape accusations. Of course this is all his fault anyway. We all know you don't stick your dick in crazy. Really he's getting everything he deserves for not breaking up with that abusive wack-o earlier. He was basically asking for it when you think about it. Running around all smug and dickish. It's a wonder somebody didn't make up accusations against him earlier. (I don't really believe any of these things of course, just making a point how stupid some people look when they keep trying to blame the victims)
If Deen has been the victim of a crime earlier and hasn't reported it, then he can't cry about it before he reports it. Common sense. He also let this abusive wack-o continue whatever she was doing, which in turn could cause harm to others because he didn't do the right thing. Victims can handle things wrong based on emotional reactions.
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sparrow55 Deactivated User
82 Posts 11/15
Posted - Dec 5 2015 : 12:45AM
sparrow55 Deactivated User
82 Posts 11/15
Posted - Dec 5 2015 : 12:48AM
The event Stoya mentions happened a year back.
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sparrow55 Deactivated User
82 Posts 11/15
Posted - Dec 5 2015 : 12:52AM
I would say to this that "police" is not nearly as monolithic a term as is made out to be these days. There are ordinary patrolmen and detectives, then there are house-mouse white shirts (Sergeants, Lieutenants, Captains, Inspectors, Assistant Deputy Commissioners, Deputy Commissioners, Commissioners, Chiefs), the latter group being the police version of the military's REMFs. Most of the former very much want to believe and help all crime victims, including rape victims, see criminals brought to justice. The vast majority of the latter are simply concerned with ticket-punching their way to their next promotion to the point where they have attained a rank that gets them their own driver and a regular invitation to lunch at a swanky restaurant with politicians of the non-uniformed variety. The big problem with reports of rape in many jurisdictions, at least in America, today, is that these jurisdictions use this egg-head Harvard Management School-crapped out toy officially called "CompStat" to, ostensibly, "give an accurate measure of criminal activity in their area of responsibility." IRL, patrolmen and ordinary detectives call CompStat "FUDGESTAT" because Sergeants, Lieutenants, Captains, Inspectors, Assistant Deputy Commissioners, Deputy Commissioners, Commissioners, Chiefs divert this toy into a ticket-punching mechanism to show they are "good police managers" with "evidence that crime is down in their sector," thus rendering them "excellent material for the position of" their next promotion. To my mind, anyone who is serious about combatting rape would, instead of whinging when someone points out the recent highly public series of rape story hoaxes, write their municipal, local, and federal elected representatives and tell said representatives to issue direct orders in writing to every police REMF from Chief to Sergeant to thoroughly investigate any claims of rape, IRRESPECTIVE of the impact such investigation will have on the municipality/State/Federal department's CompState figures/image/tourism numbers.
Click to expand
I've heard of Compstats in contexts of other situations. Like in academia where the schools and teachers are padding up the scores so that they are not the worst performing in their district, hence declining standards of education. Thanks for sharing.
I find it really, really, really hard to believe that he's letting himself be absolutely crucified by the press on an international level even though he has the ability to stop it (if the texts that that e-mail says exists do and he still has them) just because "he doesn't want to be an asshole". Like, I could maybe have believed it on Saturday/Sunday when it was just Stoya's accusation and his denial. But at this point?
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pervybrit50 Deactivated User
473 Posts 11/13
Posted - Dec 5 2015 : 3:03AM
Wow-what a personal testimony from whoever that is. Great defence-he is an asshole & so am I. Why would Joanna Angle be jealous of James Deen? She has run her own successful company for the best part of a decade & been in lots of big films. He stopped when Ashley Fires said no-great, but that makes it acceptable to try to stick your dick in a woman's ass in a communal shower without asking her first? This wasn't a contracted porn scene she had agreed to. Irrelevant performers trying to get attention? Stoya is a mainstream name, Joanna Angel is well known in the business, Tori Lux & Amber Rayne are long retired etc. At least they have the guts to come out publicly, rather than being anonymous like this guy. very telling quote here-Everyone on set gets groped, molested, flirted with. Sexual harassment is our entire business model. Says it all really-about his attitude & of many in porn.
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pervybrit50 Deactivated User
473 Posts 11/13
Posted - Dec 5 2015 : 3:05AM
Yep-Stoya & Angel it could have just been sour grapes from their perosnal relationships with him, but what 8 or whatever other women coming forward in less than a week?
^ Truthfully, of the 7 or so stories that have come out that aren't Joanna or Stoya, there's one I'm positive is true (Amber Rayne, because video exists of that), two I'm pretty sure are true, one I'm 50/50 on, two that may have happened but not in the way they were described, and one I just flat out don't believe at all. That being said, Stoya and Joanna's accusations are probably the most serious, so if he could actually disprove those, then I think he'd be able to move on from this and actually still have a career. He'd have some public apologies he'd have to make, and he'd absolutely have to tone himself down about a dozen notches, but he'd still be able to work without massive boycotts.
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JB_X Deactivated User
addled 1500 Posts 10/12
Posted - Dec 5 2015 : 4:07AM
I'd be interested to know who the "industry vet" is that knows for a fact that this is all bullshit. Reading the account, it's further fetched than any of the accusations leveled against Deen (except one, maybe).
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Ben Mockridge Deactivated User
382 Posts 9/15
Posted - Dec 5 2015 : 5:09AM
At the end of the day i can believe Deen might have boundary issues but at the same time i can equally believe that Stoya might be mentally unstable , manipulative and might make false allegations. And the testimonies support both theories. For me the fact that some people (not you btw) seem only willing to believe one possibility just reflects their pre-existing bias to side with one side of the issue irrespective of anything else . Its impossible to really know the truth - all in all theyre probably as bad as each other - womean enabling rapist by putting up with abuse for years and then coming out with rape allegations on twitter on the crest of a wave of feminist hysteria. Its all quite shabby.
See I suspected something fishy about this since the start. That testimony has a lot of details and plausible explanations. I now definitely believe that Stoya is lying.
he can't. But that our point of view, we don't know so we think "what if she's lying". But from her point of view, If she knows that what she's saying is real, she could not care less for this. She has every right to say that there's a famous rapist who's celebrated as a feminist. If what she's saying is not true, that's horrible, but that does not mean that if this is true she does not have the right to say it in public.
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Dec 5 2015 : 6:27AM
As if you ever thought otherwise. Very amusing to see those who at first were saying that one shouldn't rush to judgement and wait til it is settled in a court of law rush to try and pick apart Stoya and other's statements.
^Highly emotional outburst, very telling. The ones on the anti-Deen bandwagon are starting to notice flat tires. And if you had bothered to check, blacksix, I started out with an open mind and then immediately asked questions when I noticed suspicious circumstances surrounding Stoya's claims, like how her website still has scenes with James Deen in it. Check the first page and then try to laugh it away. It was only a matter of time before somebody spoke out, and I mean REALLY spoke out and not just post stories of James Dean stopping his 'sexual assaults' when asked to stop. Edited by - 2bollocks on 12/5/2015 6:45:00 AM
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Ben Mockridge Deactivated User
382 Posts 9/15
Posted - Dec 5 2015 : 6:45AM
So what if a person came out on Twitter and accused another person of being a murder who's celebrated as a humanist ? How seriously should we take the accusation if the person chooses to only report it on twitter and opts against reporting it to the cops and the judicial scrutiny that would entail ? She may or may not have the right to say it (refer to 1st ammendment) but should we take it so seriously ?
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Dec 5 2015 : 6:46AM
If you think that was an emotional outburst...okay.
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erik2690 Deactivated User
367 Posts 3/12
Posted - Dec 5 2015 : 7:09AM
I feel like you aren't empathizing well with what rape and abuse is. People literally stay with the partners that will beat them to a pulp. This isn't like some weird scenario specific to Stoya. I mean I can get not understanding it, but it certainly doesn't sound like anything that crazy uncommon. Convincing yourself 'maybe this wasn't wrong', 'am I wrong' etc. isn't that tough to understand based on the fact that we know this happens in "real life" often enough. This doesn't mean I know what is true in this specific case. I am purely saying that the idea of someone not reacting "normally" to trauma or abuse is not that crazy or odd. Edited by - erik2690 on 12/5/2015 7:36:31 AM
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FlacFan Deactivated User
10088 Posts 8/15
Posted - Dec 5 2015 : 7:41AM
While it wouldn't surprise me that someone would pull a promo stunt like, it would surprise me that she would risk her website over it. Either the entire site is in on the swerve or she lied. I think she is being honest, but sadly it won't surprise me if it turns out she lied. Boycott James Deen, Silicone Is Evil, Razors Aren't Much Better
Because of all the stories coming out about Deen's aggressiveness on set and it not being stopped, do you think this will bring greater scrutiny on the industry by the government? I'm saddened because I liked his scenes and I thought that rough sex was controlled in porn by the director and safe words.
Oh I see the masks have finally dropped from the faces of the Deenophiles here! "You can't prove it happened! She might be out to ruin him. False accusations happen often." "Well another girl just came forward." "Where is the proof?" "Oh another girl told that he abused her as well." "Were you there?" "Oh there are like 7 that came forward now including some big names." "Nope, court of law or didn't happen." "Hey look an anonymous guy sticks up for Deen." "I knew it was fishy. That bitch lied! She is insane!!!! Deen is innocent!" Yeah, you guys are extremely scary people.
James Deen @ Adult Empire
Posted - Dec 4 2015 : 7:42PM
