I think anyone who feels that Stoya is lying because she didn't report it to the police or somehow she erred by not going to the police don't take into account that spousal rape is exceptionally hard to prove. Even though they weren't married the fact that they were in a long term relationship would very much make this a spousal rape situation, a crime some people still don't even believe exists. The fact that so many people are making jokes about it being filmed for a scene or flat out doubting her story because she likes rough sex (not just here but in other boards discussing this story) shows exactly why she faced so many challenges in going forward. Plus spousal rape can be exceptionally traumatizing. Just read up on it. This is abuse inside a relationship and it's not always easy to go off and file charges. The fact that they had a safeword shows that she had a precaution in place to prevent rape so he would know when she wasn't playing or wasn't indulging in a rape fantasy. There's nothing wrong with rough sex and rape fantasies (read up on Dana Vespoli for more of her very educated views on that) but the safeword is there to make sure it is known when "no" and "stop" really mean "no" and "stop." If he ignored her cries and her use of the safe word then he raped her. Rape is something that can happen whether you are someone grabbing a woman walking down the street or have been in a relationship for 10 years. No means no. Consent must be given. Do we really value sex workers so little that we would cast shade on a victim's claims just because she shoots porn and is known to like rough sex? This is not just Stoya making claims. She is backed up by Joanna Angel, Dana Vespoli, Kayden Kross and Christy Mack, all people who have worked with James and know him far better than any of us ever could. To me Stoya has nothing to gain and everything to lose by reporting this incident in such a public fashion. The fact that her claim is being mocked and doubted all over the Internet at the same time War Machine's lawyer is trying to claim Christy Mack automatically consents to sex because she does porn shows how difficult life can be for victims. These claims should and must be taken very seriously. This is an allegation of abuse and yes innocent until proven guilty is important, but with rape and abuse the rules change and we should be standing with women and standing with victims.
First of all I´m not going to who I believe or who not. But everyone yelling for proofs, how could you get any proof here. It was never sad that this happened on set. If it happened in private there probably would be no witness. Even a doc can´t tell because you´ll never know when she said stop. On the other hand there are some false accusations from women. Another thing is this "There are several others telling the same" How would you know, that they are not try to get personal profit out of this situation? But the most difficult thing here is, remember how that person telling the truth must feel. There are so many women outthere who got raped and didn´t tell, because they must face all this "Did she tell the truth?" Remember that when you´re asking why she didn´t come up with that earlier. We´ll probably never know who i telling the truth.
Before I reply to your post let me first say that I truly hope that she and everybody else isn't lying because that is only going to make it harder for other women who are victims of sexual abuse from being believed. Now I am more than wiling to hear what Stoya has to say about what happened to her but her method for announcing that she was raped should never and I mean ever have been a social media platform like Twitter where you are limited to a maximum of 140 characters. Use Facebook, use forums, heck you are a writer. Write an article for one of your publication but not Twitter. It also really doesn't help that she made herself unavailable for two plus weeks. I'm glad that many performers are supporting her but there again we don't necessarily know why they are doing it. Is it because they were also victims of Deen? Are they doing it because they are friends of Stoya and take her word without proof(don't think any have been revealed)? Are they doing it because they aren't friends of Stoya but dislike Deen? These are all valid questions and part of why Stoya should not have made herself unavailable after dropping that huge bomb on the porn industry. I'll just finish that I don't know where you got the notion that Stoya has something to lose by coming forward because she has act nothing to lose since she isn't doing porn anymore. Even if she was still shooting porn than what would she have to lose by reporting that her boyfriend/husband raped her. In fact it can be argue that she has something to gain by coming forward with these allegations because it doesn't hurt her career but it will certainly hurt his. Please don't use what happened to Christy Mack in comparison because she had more than enough proof and didn't wait months to report it. Of course in retrospect she probably should have done something about War Machine long before the last episode because she had already been abused. I will simply end by saying that if what Stoya wrote is true than I hope that she got help in dealing with it or is now getting it. Edited by - pat362 on 11/29/2015 9:21:05 PM
^ I'm going to correct you on one thing. She is still shooting porn. She still shoots for her website, and she actually very recently alluded to being willing to shoot for other companies (and more to the point, stated that she has been getting offers from other companies to shoot). This is still her career, and with these accusations she's still putting it on the line.
rough sex does not equal rape. you can enjoy rough sex and still be raped. liking rough sex doesn't give anyone the right to rape you, ignore your agreed upon safe word, etc. frankly, I'm not sure wtf you are talking about.
he posted something. denying it. though really, what was he gonna do? admit it and just go on engaging in a career where he needs females he doesn't know to put their trust (and bodies) in his care?
some companies have distanced themselves. ideally, that continues....
As anyone who glances at my avatar will quickly realize, I am predisposed to trust Stoya, so my personal beliefs shouldn't sway anyone– least of all myself.This is the key point on the question of whether or not I personally believe the accusations.On this point, I disagree. We should always stand with the victims over the perpetrators– whatever the crime. But "standing with the victims" is not always the same as 'standing with the accusers'. If James Deen is being falsely accused then he is the victim. I tend to believe the accusations, in part because so many people who know Deen are supporting Stoya. But if a bunch of people are ganging up on him, then that is terrible.
Let's not ignore that there are a few in the business so far tacitly supporting James Deen by using the same tactic of allegedly just wanting to know the truth. I'm sure we'll hear soon enough from women who have worked with him who have had no issues, but that doesn't mean the allegations are false. This situation could cause a divide and hurt some relationships both personal and professional for sure. It will be interesting to see the type of statement made by those who choose to work with him going forward. We've heard a lot of people support Stoya by alluding to similar treatment by him, and of not being of good character in general.. I haven't noticed anyone attacking Stoya's character in a similar fashion so far, which is interesting.
Because, and I say this as someone who's met Stoya, I don't know that you can. I don't want to say that her character is unassailable, but James has always had detractors and enemies inside the business. You have to look long and hard to find people that legitimately dislike Stoya.
I wholeheartedly reject the idea that rape victims are supposed to behave a certain way or that their claims lack merit because they don't. Rape is mentally and physically traumatizing it. Just because someone doesn't act like they're a character on Law and Order SVU or just because they go onto social media to tell the world doesn't make it any less likely that they got raped. Gore Gore Girl, thank you for your kind words. Edited by - KMB2476 on 11/29/2015 10:17:57 PM
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06
Posted - Nov 29 2015 : 10:30PM
You can't possibly be so ignorant as to not know the answer to the question you're asking. but I'll indulge you anyway since using another analogy would likely send you on yet another pointless irrelevant tangent that has nothing to do with the point being made. Not everyone (pornstars included) wants every sexual encounter they have to be recorded for posterity, profit or any other reason. Sometimes horny people just want to fuck. They don't want to make a movie, they don't want to bother with a camera and lighting, they just want to rub their sweaty crotches together because they are in the mood. If you don't understand that I'm inclined to believe you've never actually rubbed sweaty crotches with anyone else and are thus unqualified to weigh in any farther on the discussion. Performers are people too. They aren't machines. Your line of questioning presupposes they are.
I have no experience with rape or rough sex, but I have a very hard time imagining that it would be difficult to discern the difference in attitude between a girl that is into the rough sex and a girl that suddenly wants no part of it. There has to be a very noticeable shift in demeanor from someone that is getting pleasure from the situation and someone who flat out just wants you to Get the fuck off of her.
#SDNY he's all yours. -- Michael Steele 5110 Posts 3/03
Posted - Nov 29 2015 : 10:59PM
Correct me if you think I'm wrong, but I don't believe a single industry person referred to in this thread as having "come forward" in some way, has actually claimed to have any personal knowledge of the occurrence of the alleged rape or events surrounding it, nor been willing to make a specific factual claim of prior wrongful acts by Deen. It's all been the circle-the-wagons, "we believe you, Anita" type of expressions of support for Stoya on the one hand, and "I can't go into specifics but Deen is bad," "I've known for a long time that Deen is a monster but it's not my story to tell," and similar sensational, but ultimately evasive, comments on the other. While I find it somewhat interesting that at least some people in the industry are willing to publicly but non-specifically speak ill of Deen, I find it as interesting, if not more so, that none of them are willing to reveal these purportedly awful facts that they know about.
Uh... my first question wasn't any of the ones she addressed. It's what was the studio that allowed that to happen? She says her assault happened on set with people watching. So there were witnesses. If her story is true, Deen comes off as the King Joffrey of porn. Pretty sadistic and unchecked. Did the other people on set who witnessed this not object because they were afraid Deen could have them fired? Or were they also cruel voyeurs?
No but again, rationalizing any sort of intention Stoya has with those twitter posts can be applied to a police report. Whatever she was trying to accomplish with those actions which were the worst she could think of btw(twitter being a terrible platform like mentioned, being vague and also conveniently leaving social media for several weeks) she would have accomplished it ten fold by going to law enforcement. I'm talking now and not whenever this allegedly happened. She obviously no longer has an unwillingness to come clean about it.I thought Tori Lux was gonna claim rape but this was supposedly an assault. So now only 1 woman has claimed that James Deen raped her, others are claiming he's an abusive bad guy and others are just sticking by their friends. So again, people acting like there is a significant case against Deen being a rapist are not looking at it with the right perspective.
Oy, if this spills over into the mainstream with interviews and such, it'll only get worse.
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sparrow55 Deactivated User
82 Posts 11/15
Posted - Nov 30 2015 : 1:43AM
http://imgur.com/a/5qUCe Read the screenshots. Now people think this is a political statement rather than dealing with the issue at hand. They think by supporting James Deen, they will be discouraging sex workers from reporting rapes. If she is called a liar, then they believe that it will damaging to other sex worker victims. So people are probably not comiing out to support him because they are scared of being called rapist sympathizers, misogynists or that this guy is a necessary victim for the "greater good" Some tweets "Today and every day, I BELIEVE WOMEN. Thank you to @Stoya for her bravery in coming forward. " "no victim blaming. believe women and sex workers." So, now it is a gender issue. I do not like this guy but when you have people with agendas, you do not what the truth is. This guy crossed over to mainstream. There might be a lot of professional jealousies or agendas involved in the situation. The reaction he got literally is proof on how damaging rape accusations can be, even without proof of it. Edited by - sparrow55 on 11/30/2015 1:50:56 AM
Reading through Deen's twitter responses, tons of people have already made up their minds and branded him a rapist. That's how easy it is nowadays. People don't acknowledge the severity of even the slightest hint of rape and the long term consequences against the accused. Whereas I have yet to see even a troll call Stoya a liar or see her treated as badly for speaking out like it's been implied in this thread would happen.
Honestly I find Tori Lux's story to be more damning as it actually goes into detail. It doesn't read like a "This one time in bandcamp... I was raped... Goodbye" tweet, that Stoya left. Not making light of the actual allegations but her way of putting it out there was kind of ill-thought-out. While Lux's story may not be rape, it's certainly a pretty damned egregious example of sexual assault if true. Edited by - Jackie Treehorn on 11/30/2015 1:54:06 AM
#SDNY he's all yours. -- Michael Steele 5110 Posts 3/03
Posted - Nov 30 2015 : 1:57AM
One possibility is that she may have threatened to sue the studio, and received a financial settlement in exchange for signing a release which included a confidentiality clause, which she now feels justified to skirt or selectively ignore, perhaps in the belief that the studio now wouldn't dare to come back at her for breaching the agreement as long as she continues to keep their name out of it and the fact that she got paid. Let me emphasize that this is only speculation on my part, but it would be consistent with her earlier "I can't go into it on a public forum" coyness in the twitter message (or whatever it was) that was linked to earlier in this thread, and her article's omission of the studio's name and offering of various rationalizations about why she didn't go to the police but conspicuously failing to address whether she pursued a civil remedy.
this is not looking great for him is it yet another well known porn actress (not mentioned in this thread i think) has claimed that james deen did the same thing to her she has since deleted her tweet, seems like deen has got his lawyers involved Edited by - adogg on 11/30/2015 2:06:40 AM
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sparrow55 Deactivated User
82 Posts 11/15
Posted - Nov 30 2015 : 2:20AM
That is misrepresenting a situation. "@stoya so sorry that this happened. Thank you for speaking out about your experience." Mack is supporting her as she was a rape victim herself. Even Dana's tone seem to be similar. they were not fact checking. they are going on what Stoya posted. That said, it is interesting to think about..If two of your coworkers were in a relationship and then brokeup and if the woman accuses the guy of rape sometime later, what would you do ? this is specifically before the facts come out. If you stay neutral, you probably would criticized for not supporting a rape victim. If you support the guy, you are a rape sympathizer. You support the rape accuser, you are condemning the guy accused of a crime without knowing if he commited it or not. It is a tough situation to navigate
Actually that's exactly what you did there, mirepresenting it. You say it's not JUST Stoya making rape claims(that's the only claim she made) so you implied that all those other women also accused him of rape which is false, only one woman has publicly claimed this about JD.
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sparrow55 Deactivated User
82 Posts 11/15
Posted - Nov 30 2015 : 2:29AM
^ I was quoting a poster from above. Let me format it so that ir makes better sense Stoya tweets now have a combines 15K retweets and 16K favorites... Edited by - sparrow55 on 11/30/2015 2:30:31 AM Edited by - sparrow55 on 11/30/2015 2:32:42 AM
"There have been some egregious claims made against me on social media"
"I want to assure my friends, fans and colleagues that these allegations are both false and defamatory"
"I respect women and I know and respect limits both professionally and privately"
It may be that he does intend to pursue civil remedies against the author(s) of the 'egregious claims'. Clearly he is positioning himself as the calm and reasonable person, as opposed to his accuser, who, viscerally, has the gall to call a rape a rape. Yet, three tweets, mealy-mouthed plausible deniability, when "Stoya is a liar. I have never raped her or anyone" would have more directly addressed the 'egregious claims'.
^And yet if he had worded it like that you would have been a lot more angry with him than you already were with his calm and rational response, and then others could spin it as "If he was innocent why would he react so angry" or similar.
^ 1. I would not have been angry if he had the backbone to confront the allegations front on - it would have clearly forced Stoya to support her claims (not that I'm doubting her and in fact I suspect Deen does not want her to elaborate more than she has done); and 2. I would have thought that anger is the natural reaction of an innocent person falsely accused of a crime. It all seems like this will be played out in social media and Deen knows this and is going to work on projecting the nice sensitive guy image of himself.
more disturbing information about james deen from ashley fireshttp://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/11/30/james-deen-the-bill-cosby-of-porn.html?via=twitter_page ok lets see stoya tori lux joanna angel princess donna ashley fires taryn melissa have i missed any one so far kayden kross has suggested there are many more out there Edited by - adogg on 11/30/2015 3:27:34 AM
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sparrow55 Deactivated User
82 Posts 11/15
Posted - Nov 30 2015 : 4:23AM
the thing with jessie cox seems irrelevant. And while absolutely gross, aren't you actually saying that he stops when asked.. The having sex off screen is a persona we see regularly on the blogs or even some of his movie series.
And it's only been 2 days. This will be an interesting week.
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Ben Mockridge Deactivated User
382 Posts 9/15
Posted - Nov 30 2015 : 4:45AM
Yes there definitely seems to be a growing body of testimony that the guy acts innapropriately , dosnt respect boundaries , is out of line - call it what you will. However specifically re the rape allegation ; everyone recognises what a horrendous decision it is for women to have to go to the cops and report rape and its easy to see why some women dont report rape and prefer to suppress it and im sure we all simultaneously sympathise ,understand and respect their decision to do so. What i cannot understand is a readiness to report the crime on twitter and not to the cops. The twitter circus might make JD reign his antics in a bit but the clear message goes out that it wasnt deemed a serious enough issue to report to the police and that an alleged rape went unreported and unpunished. Relegating rape allegations to twitter rather than the police trivialises the seriousness of rape and by doing so makes life harder for all women. Rape should be reported to the police - not twitter. And anyone who genuinely supports womens issues should realise this.
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FlacFan Deactivated User
10088 Posts 8/15
Posted - Nov 30 2015 : 6:54AM
^^^ Yes he did stop. However it establishes a pattern of behavior regarding inappropriate and aggressive actions towards other females. Other girls are coming out saying that he acted in the same way. Were it to go to court, it would show his actions towards other girls even in a working environment. Not good. ^^ Indeed. Edit: You know what the difference between this and Cytherea's rape? Absolutely nothing. Edited by - FlacFan on 11/30/2015 6:58:03 AM
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KaLeu Deactivated User
170 Posts 5/13
Posted - Nov 30 2015 : 7:03AM
Creep level: Bundy
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FlacFan Deactivated User
10088 Posts 8/15
Posted - Nov 30 2015 : 7:07AM
^ Oops Yeah that's not creepy at all, unless you look at it or read the side text he posted with it. Boycott James Deen, Silicone Is Evil, Razors Aren't Much Better
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pervybrit50 Deactivated User
473 Posts 11/13
Posted - Nov 30 2015 : 7:54AM
Yeah-James Deen is just another dick for hire on a porn set, it isn't like he can just roll in & start hitting & sexually assaulting the booked talent. There was a Brazzers scene that came out a couple of months after the date she states & that is her only scene for them so wondering if it was that. Her male star was Ramon Nomar who doesn't seem like the kind of guy to stand for that if he was there & is much bigger than Deen. Most porn companies of any note don't stand for any crap-performers turning up wasted, causing problems etc, no matter how big a star they are & this guy is hardly Lex Steele or Ron Jeremy star level.
Porno movies, sexy videos, xxx. Adult DVD Talk at your service. 6409 Posts 11/99
Posted - Nov 30 2015 : 8:00AM
Any of you suggesting that Stoya should have reported the rape to the police likely have no experience reporting anything to the police. The cops' first reaction is to accuse the person reporting. I reported a mugging with tons of witnesses. The police accused me of trying to buy drugs from the guys who mugged me. Trying to report a date/spousal rape would be worse than banging your head against a brick wall. Being a sex worker trying to report a date/spousal rape would be pointless and simply add to the trauma. The non-report is evidence of nothing.
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TrumanBurbank Deactivated User
890 Posts 2/12
Posted - Nov 30 2015 : 8:03AM
He has 213k Twitter followers. Look on youtube, reddit etc. He is super fucking popular. Lex Steele has like 60k followers. James Deen and Manuel are the American kings of porn. Everyone knows them dude. Who the fuck gives a shit about Ron Jeremy anymore.
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lefaf Deactivated User
5776 Posts 10/14
Posted - Nov 30 2015 : 8:12AM
he has tweeted
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pervybrit50 Deactivated User
473 Posts 11/13
Posted - Nov 30 2015 : 8:13AM
Ashley Fires doesn't have to defend her decision-she has been in the business even longer than he has & most women have people they refuse to work with. Problem with Princess Donna is she kept booking him while she was one of the Kink owners-if you think the guy is dangerous to your female performers then why keep giving him gigs? Nobody is buying scenes just because he is in them. Same thing with Stoya-the website she co-owns two days before she made these accusations has uploaded a rape fantasy scene with Deen & Dana Vespoli. So she is promoting him & making money from him off a rape scenario scene while accusing him of rape? Joanna Angel lived with him for six years, she booked him in nearly 200 scenes for her Burning Angel website until 2013-now he is the scum of the earth? She never saw any worrying behaviour in six years? I don't get it-the guys are just cocks for hire. The women are the ones who sell the product & make a lot more money-they have the power in porn. Yet it seems they don't tell the people running the companies or the sites they have a potential rapist on their hands, or if they do don't make a stand & demand this guy gets blackballed. It is great Ashley Fires was telling other women to be wary about him, but why didn't she kick up a stink to the owners of Kink. It is like the guys who have documented histories of beating up female porn stars that still get booked-why do the companies book them? Why do the female porn stars work with them? They have the power yet keep quiet & potentially risk the safety of other female performers.
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pervybrit50 Deactivated User
473 Posts 11/13
Posted - Nov 30 2015 : 8:17AM
Wow Twitter followers-if you walked up to people in the street & said James Deen they would think you would be talking about the film actor he named himself after. Ron Jeremy is a mainstream name. Johnny Sins is the king anyway.
I mean, really...wow.