double post. Edited by - leatherface on 12/5/2015 2:01:56 PM
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klies Deactivated User
1733 Posts 5/09
Posted - Dec 5 2015 : 2:03PM
I just wanted to share that info in here, not discuss my country rape laws. But I have such a big heart that I can not say no to anyone, but at the same time I feel like you are not being honest with me. you were/are in no mood to discuss rape laws of other countries. so if you can convince me that you really want to discuss then perhaps I would.
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06
Posted - Dec 5 2015 : 2:10PM
^ I've asked three times now. I'm not going to ask again. I don't really care if you're convinced or not. It's pretty clear what your motives were in bringing up the subject (and it clearly wasn't to have an informed discussion) so I see no point in continuing this stupid tete-a-tete.
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klies Deactivated User
1733 Posts 5/09
Posted - Dec 5 2015 : 2:15PM
good. would have been better if you said it 20 posts ago. Edited by - klies on 12/5/2015 2:15:51 PM
That is your interpretation of what the scenarios are about. It isn't necessarily their interpretation of what the scenarios are about. You should probably ask them. IkeMan wrote: The line is obviously not "as huge as any line possibly can be" - you want a man to dominate you, treat you aggressively and quasi-rape you, but you don't want him to actually rape you? How is a man supposed to know what considers rape to you, if you want to be quasi-raped? Yes, the line really is as huge as it possibly can be because, again, a lack of consent is what makes it rape, not how hard the sex is. The second that a woman says 'Stop', or uses her safe word, there is no longer consent, and you either stop or you become a rapist.
Meadow muffins. Personally, I question any claim made against Deen out of pure self-interest. If Stoya can make unsubstantiated claims of rape against Deen and have such a huge negative impact on his reputation and, more importantly, his career and not be questioned then it can happen to anybody -- me, you, and every poster on this board. I believe it is also in my interest that rapists be identified and neutralized. I can hold both thoughts in my head at the same time because I'm neither an idiot nor blindly obedient to a single agenda (other than my own, of course). So I will continue to look for evidence, and yes, I will note the pattern of accusations made, and I will continue to evaluate those accusations as more information is made available. I will also note the pattern of performers that have stated that Deen was very observant of boundaries, performers who've made it clear they've had no issues at all with Deen (Asa Akira, Gianna Michaels, Lisa Anne, and even Aurora Snow, for all the bylines she's gotten over the last week). That is a pattern as well. My point is that not everyone's motives are as simplistic as you make them out to be. Some of us are keeping an open mind. ----------- First, do no harm.
Yes, this taints the whole porn-industry and not just James Deen. According to Kora Peters, the porn crew, who witnessed her anal rape, actually cheered it, instead of doing something about it. Which means that it isn't just James Deen who has a rape problem in the porn industry. A good number of other people have also knowingly participated in it to a greater or lesser extent. Here is what Kora Peters said about her rape: "James [Deen] kept trying to get inside my ass but I kept pushing him away, so he choked me, then he slammed my face down into the couch and forced himself in my ass anyway," Peters told the Daily Beast. "The crew all high-fived him and told him what a great job he did getting an anal scene for the price of a boy/girl scene." According to this article, "while the two were engaged in a typical boy-girl scene, Deen tried to switch to anal sex, which was on Peters's list of "no's" and which she hadn't agreed to or been paid for." Edited by - Dan on 12/5/2015 3:06:23 PM
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sparrow55 Deactivated User
82 Posts 11/15
Posted - Dec 5 2015 : 3:31PM
Totally agree...The world is changing. The speed at which Deen got kicked out atleast tell you that these women are no longer without a voice or oppressed
Not being oppressed, after being raped, isn't much of a comfort. True lack of oppression is prevention of rape, rather than the freedom to complain about it afterwards. The fact that it took many years for James Deen to get kicked out of the porn industry makes you wonder if this is real change or just a face-saving measure for the porn-industry. Because apparently a number of people in the porn-industry knew about it for a long time, but they didn't say or do anything about it.
There's still plenty of work he can get. Some studios specialize in pushing the boundaries of consent.
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Ben Mockridge Deactivated User
382 Posts 9/15
Posted - Dec 5 2015 : 4:06PM
Agreed - True lack of oppression/empowerment means (women) making positive choices that proactively remove you from harms way and reduces your likelyhood of becoming a victim. Such choices include ; not proactively pursuing pseudo rape scenarios with sex partners. Not choosing a partner who is into rough sex. Not walking alone late at night through sparsely populated areas wearing skimpy clothing. Plus if you are a journo and choose to go to a porn biz party you need to have the wherewithall to look after yourself - and if anyone does lay a hand on you you need the wherewithall to ensure that they gtfo you asap.
This is the kind of thing that an anti-porn activist would say. Because wearing skimpy clothing with strangers is a requirement for performing in porn movies. If wearing skimpy clothing is reason enough to blame the woman for her rape, then the porn industry has no future. And perhaps some people would like it this way.
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klies Deactivated User
1733 Posts 5/09
Posted - Dec 5 2015 : 4:22PM
She did 2 scenes with james http://www.data18.com/share/james-deen_kora-cummings.html And i think there is anal in both scenes. why did she agree for 2nd scene if anal was forced on her in first scene? and then he forced it in 2nd scene too? Edited by - klies on 12/5/2015 4:23:36 PM
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Ben Mockridge Deactivated User
382 Posts 9/15
Posted - Dec 5 2015 : 4:26PM
Anti porn activists think porn is bad. Porn is about people having sex. Wearing skimpy clothing is not a reqirement of porn movies - porn requires having sex with (usually strangers). Edit - i hope you arnt insinuating that im an anti porn activist :( Edited by - ben mockridge on 12/5/2015 4:28:38 PM
Apparently James Deen didn't rape every time. He did it only once in a while. Which isn't so hard to believe. Because that's the way bad people usually are. They do bad thing once in a while, but not necessarily every time.
You say you are not an idiot nor are you blindly obedient to a single agenda. And I don't think you are lying as I find your post to be pretty logical and I don't disagree with all of it. My issue is that I don't think this is a single agenda. The amount of performers that have come forward is mounting. At a certain point the sheer volume of accusations begins to outweigh my skepticism of it being a Twitter accusation. You also have companies like kink who are tacitly implying that they have witnessed this behavior. I also don't put much stock in the argument that uses testimonials from stars who haven't been abused by deen. All that tells me is that he didn't abuse every female performer he had a scene with. It states very little to the incidents raised by at least half a dozen other performers. And that's not even mentioning the girls who haven't addressed it at all. Would you not think that if they enjoyed scenes with Deen or thought he was innocent that they would step forward and offer support?
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klies Deactivated User
1733 Posts 5/09
Posted - Dec 5 2015 : 4:42PM
oh ok. so one of those 2 scenes was rape and the other one was consensual. I just hope first scene was the consensual one because if he raped her in the first scene then she coming back to shoot with her rapist after a few years sounds very weird to me.
I wasn't really motivated to post in this thread at all, but I don't find it that hard to believe that in the current state of porn there would be performers (and various other people) with questionable behavior and motivations. Just by the nature of being about sex, combined with the rather sparse regulation, and various still unclarified legal issues, of course there will be shady people, and people accepting shady behavior. This kind of industry is exactly the kind of enterprise that would need constant vigilance and clear ethical guidelines, and that is obviously not the case today. I have no problem believing that sexual harassment, sexual misconduct, and plain rape, has occurred and will again. Its pretty much a statistical given. People should listen to the stories of victims, and regardless of whether you believe one specific case or not, this is not the first time there has been stories about unacceptable behavior, and its not the first time that behavior has been ignored either.
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sparrow55 Deactivated User
82 Posts 11/15
Posted - Dec 5 2015 : 4:50PM
This is where my bullshit meter goes off. I could imagine one guy doing it, but the whole crew highfived ? What did they do after that ? Kick a pregnant lady and steal from a trust fund for orphans ? I hope some kind of BTS exists in these scenarios. i find this over the top along with the Tori lux scenario. Anyone remember the Corina Taylor situation ? Kora Cummings also has one scene released this year, 3 in 2014, similar numbers in the year before... Edited by - sparrow55 on 12/5/2015 4:57:27 PM
She didn't say in the article which scene she was raped in. But I assume it was her second scene and not the 1st. But even if she did come back for a second scene after being raped, then it might be because she needed the money and not because she liked the guy or agreed with being raped before. People can have all kinds of reasons for coming back to an abusive guy. But this doesn't justify the abuse.
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klies Deactivated User
1733 Posts 5/09
Posted - Dec 5 2015 : 4:55PM
^ right. nothing wrong in coming back to shoot with your rapist if you have valid reasons. I shouldn't have brought that up.
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Ben Mockridge Deactivated User
382 Posts 9/15
Posted - Dec 5 2015 : 4:57PM
Yeh if the whole crew wtnessed you being raped then go to the cops - one of the onlookers is gonna crack under interogation and admit that a rape took place.
It's a well-known fact that women sometimes stay in an abusive relationship for many years. And it's the kind of abuse that puts the woman in a hospital once in a while. But blaming the woman, rather than the perpetrator, for abuse in such a situation makes no sense. The guy is responsible for what he does, regardless of whether the woman runs away from him or comes back to him.
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klies Deactivated User
1733 Posts 5/09
Posted - Dec 5 2015 : 5:02PM
^ but can I at least blame her "a little" for not reporting that matter then and there so that cops had a real chance to gather some evidences/witnesses and secure conviction.
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sparrow55 Deactivated User
82 Posts 11/15
Posted - Dec 5 2015 : 5:04PM
I understand the context you are speaking about, but I find the you cannot ask the victim to do anything different or even point out the mistake she was doing a bit too damaging and enabling.. "you were bar hopping drunk alone without anyone tagging along with you in the bad part of the city and got raped ? Maybe you shouldn't get blackout drink and control your drinking habits ? " "Rape apologist, ask the rapists not to rape. the problem wasn't her drinking, it was the guy raping her" People need to have accountability for themselves. Otherwise, it would be infantilizing a whole gender Edited by - sparrow55 on 12/5/2015 5:06:02 PM
The thing about cops is that a lot of people don't trust them and for a good reason too. Recent police shootings described and shown in the media are probably just the tip of an iceberg of what the police does, when there aren't any witnesses or cameras. A lot of sex-workers don't trust the police and probably for a good reason too. Edited by - Dan on 12/5/2015 5:07:51 PM
No, these people will not let up on anything. Absolutely nothing they did that was questionable or should be held against them, that's the line of thinking. If you try to do so because you are a logical person, they will throw loaded terms at you like 'you're victim-blaming' to silence you. Feminist tactics. By doing that, certain women can get away with anything and they won't have to be held accountable for anything because they're victims. Extremely handy, this loaded 'victim-blaming' term that is used as a tool.
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06
Posted - Dec 5 2015 : 5:12PM
Rape isn't a logical crime. Trying to pretend that every perpetrator is doing it for logical reasons, or that every victim will have a logical response shows a severe lack of understanding regarding the psychology of the crime. Sure, you can raise an eyebrow over things that don't appear to be logical to you, but just because you can't figure out a logical reason for something doesn't mean it didn't happen.
According to crime statistics, a lot of rapes happen under the influence of alcohol or drugs. Which might be what happened with James Deen too. It might not have been planned or premeditated. But the guy is still responsible for his actions in such a situation.
I wouldn't say cops are useless for everybody. They might be useless only for come sections of the population, such as sex-workers and some racial minorities in some parts of the country. But when it comes to protecting the rich, then cops are usually there to serve their interests.
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klies Deactivated User
1733 Posts 5/09
Posted - Dec 5 2015 : 5:27PM
oh looks like Kora was raped twice. she was raped first time in 2009 but then she came back in 2013 and they raped her again on the set. Disgusting!!!!--------------- --------------- ---------------sorry if I sound insensitive but this made me laugh a little. Sorry.
This is the kind of thing anti-porn politicians might want to blow out of proportion. They might say that porn is rape. And you can't trust the women to complain about being raped, because they need the money and for this reason they don't feel free to complain. It's like some people are saying that prostitution is rape. And that's the kind of thing some people might start saying about porn.
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06
Posted - Dec 5 2015 : 5:34PM
Nice of you to post the anonymous account of the incident from someone who wasn't a firsthand witness to the situation. Hell, I wasn't there. I can make sarcastic remarks about what an asshole Deen is. Should those be taken seriously too?
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klies Deactivated User
1733 Posts 5/09
Posted - Dec 5 2015 : 5:35PM
I have heard so many times in this thread that the false rape allegations dont even make 5% of the total rapes. I know it is hard to predict but if you have to guess the false rape percentage in case of sex workers and pornstars then what percentage do you think it would be? 5%? little higher? or much much higher?
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06
Posted - Dec 5 2015 : 5:42PM
I think you missed the point. It was why should I value the opinion of some anonymous sarcastic guy who wasn't a firsthand witness? That guys opinions should be just as irrleveant yet they are re-posted here as if they carry some significance.
16 pages too much for me to read every post so question may have already been addressed. Why exactly was he ever considered a feminist? I have seen quite a few of his scenes over the years and he just seemed like an oridinary average porn performer. Simply looking like an average looking boy next door has nothing to do with being a feminist. It was basically explained that because he was not a muscle bound jock looking guy like most male performers that made him a feminist for some reason. That makes no sense. Also for years watching his scenes and trailers i noticed quite a bit the female looks uncomfortable. Anyone else notice this ?
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Ben Mockridge Deactivated User
382 Posts 9/15
Posted - Dec 5 2015 : 5:45PM
The Guys opinions are just as irrelevant as yours or mines - cos none of us were there.
I don't think it's fair to use statistics about other people, when you are looking at accusations against an individual. Because an individual isn't responsible in any way for what other people have done.
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06
Posted - Dec 5 2015 : 5:51PM
you're not being shamed for asking questions. You're having your irrelevant points rebutted. You can continue to go down the list of logical fallacies until you've tried them all twice, and people will still question your faulty logic. It's nothing personal. Your points just suck.
James Deen @ Adult Empire
Posted - Dec 5 2015 : 2:00PM
