His mentor at the beginning of his career was Chico Wang (RIP) who was known for his rough gangbang / group scenes in which Deen freqently was participating. You could literally see that Deen had some of the best scenes under Wang especially when the scene demanded brutal high energy assfucking which often led to more than one popshot by him during his takes. Maybe his behaviour these days is a reaction of what he learned in his beginner years and maybe he is not able to recognize that times had changed anymore?
I really shouldn't have to say this, but Canadian_Cindy isn't describing Deen. "This guy [singular assumed to reference Deen], like many in porn[plural describing a large number of the males in porn], get this wierd sense of entitlement. THey [pluralized, referring back to the large number of males in the last statement] think that because they film rough or degrading porn all the time, that every woman wants it. When a woman says no, they [still pluralized so a large member of the males in porn] ignore it, because they can not comprehend how anyone could possibly not like the stuff they dish out." Breaking down the statements, Canadian_Cindy is saying many of the males in porn are rapists because they no longer understand how a woman wouldn't want them because of the rough or degrading porn they have shot all the time. So Canadian_Cindy is now arguing that many of the males in porn, which James Deen is one of, are rapists. This does not add to a conversation about Stoya accusing James Deen of rape. This is the opposite of 2bullocks feminazi stance. This thread needs to stay on the topic at hand without wild accusatory statements.
The first question that came to mind upon entering this thread was, "So where is the scene?" Mind you I have zero interest in rape porn, not fictionalized/fantasy rape nor much less an actual documented rape. It's just that logic dictates in a case like this where there's accusations of rape and should the sexual encounter have been captured on video, obviously the best evidence in determining the truth of the matter would be the video. Then I had to wonder, wait, was this for work or was it not? So after a cursory glance through this thread, I quickly surmised since there's been no mention of the company involved that this was a private, unrecorded sexual episode of theirs. Now I'm wondering, why in the hell are two of the most popular porn performers in the business NOT filming this? They could make boatloads off of this scene, even from independently distributing it with minimal marketing cost. The mind boggles. Seriously I hear about these two performers all the time. Every girl I've heard willing to admit she enjoys watching porn names James Dean as one of her favorites. I think he may even be more popular than Manuel, or if not, then he's been up there near the top for a few years now. And I see Stoya's name pop up everywhere, and I don't even watch vanilla. So these two stars have to be undoubtedly among the most popular, probably both in the top 10 of their gender - shit maybe top 5. I bet they could make 10 grand a piece by selling their sex tape on Clips4Sale or some vendor like that. 1 typically overpriced scene by two of the most popular names in all adult entertainment would no doubt fetch the whole hefty *kit and kaboodle. So this story is definitely going to have some long seductive legs. One of the top females outing one of the top males, if not THE top male, as a rapist? He has to respond. *can someone explain to me what this phrase means? I'm not sure if this is right.
Now that's objective. Thank God the mods are not being completely one sided towards one gender like many were in this thread.(I'm not being sarcastic here for anyone who may get that impression. I know misunderstandings like that can easily happen on message boards).
So you're saying that since, in his mind anyway, he cannot perceive her pain as genuine unwillingness, that makes him worse? Or he's been enabled by the porn industry for catering to his depraved abusive behavior? Does this make him more responsible? Is he more sadistic because he does not comprehend her aversion or discomfort? Wouldn't the opposite be true? If he could very clearly comprehend and perceive her pain, wouldn't that make him worse for still putting her through it? Cuz if he can't comprehend it, as you say, doesn't that make him more oblivious? Do you think porn has made his compassion calloused? Hasn't he been popular in the BDSM scene? What makes you think most porn observers would consider him a piece of shit? You must mean after learning about this of course? I assume most will be unaware and continue to buy his movies. Hell, I think even after they learn of this story, many women will still check out his scenes. Even Cosby still has loads of female fans. I hate to sound cynical, and I don't mean to because I am inclined to believe Stoya's story. It's blunt, to the point, and she wasn't going to any lengths to exaggerate in terms of details or try and put him on blast via a lengthy diatribe. I don't even think it is worth the proverbial 2 cents, but my impression, obviously only a kneejerk opinion, is that she's telling the truth. But I trust there's going to be a lot more info coming out soon, and it will be scrutinized heavily as evidenced already in this thread.
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06
Posted - Nov 29 2015 : 1:17PM
Do you think that every time Gordon Ramsey is hungry and slaps together a grilled cheese sandwich he things "Yeah, I'm really hungry, but since this is a Gordon Ramsey Grilled Cheese Sandwich I can sell it for 75 quid." Or maybe just maybe ol Gordo will sometimes just make a sandwich to eat because he's just friggin hungry and the fact that he's got a wheelbarrow full of Michelin stars doesn't come into play when he's hungry.
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Ben Mockridge Deactivated User
382 Posts 9/15
Posted - Nov 29 2015 : 1:18PM
Its dosnt mean hes innocent and it dosnt mean hes guilty. Its simply an unsubstantiated allegation upon which nothing can be authoritatively established. And without a police complaint and subsequent investigation it will remain that way. Which if the allegation is true is a shame cos rape should be taken seriously by both men and women , and those suspected , investigated and found guilty should get the harshest possible punishments. The reality is that if an alleged victim dosnt treat the allegation with the seriousness it deserves and (for whatever reasons) fails to report it , it's by default not going to be treated by others with the seriousness it potentially deserves , because in absence of a police investigation it will remain simply twitter talk rather than a legal prosecution. If the victim judges it best to let the matter slide and not report it , then its essentially slid .
But wouldn't it be hard to lecture him on how to be a performer when he's one of the most popular, if not the most popular male at this current time? You see the problem? Even if you are right, why would he have listened to you? Or why would any of the several producers who work with him co-sign your sentiment by saying "You're right, we need to change him"? Prior to this explosive story, Dean was enormously popular in the industry, and still is. I've heard more female performers than I can count in interviews cite him as their favorite. This isn't some he-man woman haters club type of popularity. So many female viewers adored this guy too. Now we're seeing the typically convenient emergence of commenters in here talking about unfavorable "vibes" and "impressions" about him. As far as I'm concerned, that's all meaningless and bespeaks the 20/20 hindsight of confirmation bias. What use are these impressions? I'm sure for every one confirmed rapist creep, there's a thousand other guys who inspire such unfavorable "creep" and "douchebag" impressions, despite being milquetoast virgins too timid to even catcall a chick. Again, I'm actually inclined to believe Stoya. That's not based on bias for or against either party. I admit my opinion on where the truth lies in this case is pretty worthless, as I have almost zero familiarity with either performers persona or work. It's just that this is obviously a very serious deal, and I'm very critically minded and inquisitive because it helps consider different angles we might be overlooking. Platitudes are for the birds. I wonder how many other women Dean may have hurt who wish they could return the favor. But yeah that tweet is a thousand megaton bombshell. Like damn. Grab your popcorn folks.
How awful. I've never been a part of the anti-Deen crew but he's never been a favorite of mine in the same way performers like Manuel, Everhard, and Mick Blue are. Somehow some of you here apparently picked up on the possibility of something being off about him, but truthfully in my mind his on-screen persona never seemed too far removed from other mainstream performers who do rough/dominant scenes. Given Gore Gore Girl's personal account and the fact that other female performers are coming forward to corroborate her account of Deen's character, I'm inclined to believe Stoya. But it does bear mentioning that false rape accusations, while exceedingly rare, have been known to happen. The singer Connor Oberst was the victim of a false accusation last year. His accuser recanted when he threatened her with a libel suit. If Deen feels he has been falsely accused that seems like the only path open to him to clear his name. I'm not holding my breath that he'll do it though. As Canadian Cindy's comments showed, the flip-side of a female performer being labeled as a loose whore who is inherently incapable of saying "No", is that a male performer will be labelled as a being a likely rapist because of his rough/dominant scenes. Neither side is likely to receive a fair hearing from our Justice system because of their chosen profession so the chances of this ever going to court, criminal or civil, seems very slim to me. So the folks in this thread withholding judgement until the legal system steps in are probably going to be waiting forever. Really it's just going to come down to who you trust.
That's not very convenient because you have to package and ship it. I mean come on, packaging and shipping food? Who's doing the catering? Is there a middleman? What about preserving it? However, recording non-perishable goods (e.g. sex tape) is rather convenient. I mean they dont even have to hold the camera, just set it up. People do this all the time. Jules Jordan essentially makes a living off this, recording the sex he has at his home. Greg Lansky has tripods set up all over lol. Besides, when people are hungry and they make food, 99.9% of the time they just consume it, right? How's that going to be sold? Sex is not the same, although people can and do mix the two. But they don't sell the whip cream slathered on tits and dicks. lol
Good thing Melvyn is here to ask the tough questions. Next up: with what we know now, and with what we cannot independently confirm or deny pertaining to this case, if you are a big time producer and you have Dean booked, do you cancel, knowing you will still have to pay him? What sort of breach of contract might this have? Will continuing to work with him be seen as an endorsement of his private behavior? In today's hypersensitive political climate, does casting Dean hurt or help your production? We know people lose their jobs over far less than this. 10 years ago, this might sound like defensive, reactionary reaching, but nowadays, people are being crucified and beheaded left and right. You'd be foolish not to proceed with caution.
Not sure if this was during a scene and I probably shouldn't make assumptions. I've personally never had a sexual partner feel the need to use a safeword because "no" and/or "stop" are sufficient for me. This is why I was thinking that this was for a scene were the sex is planned, do's, don't(s) and safewords are shared. Could be wrong though and Stoya could very well be referring to a private encounter. "It takes courage to enjoy it: the hardcore and the gentle...Big Time Sensuality!"
This is generous of you, but I have to agree with morbid thoughts - don't base conclusions on my credibility. I'm just reporting what I know or have read. Also, this is is exactly what I wanted to post yesterday:Anyway, yes - everyone is innocent until proven guilty, and yet you don't tend to see this type of rhetoric when it comes to other crimes. Can you imagine if we behaved with such skepticism in other contexts? Friends, students, and family members have disclosed experiences of sexual assault, molestation, and rape to me, and did not report the incident. I did not push them to do so. I didn't question why they didn't report. I fully understood why they would be terrified to do so - this thread contains a lot of what women (and men) are afraid of when they come forward with an allegation. In this case, it seems that even in the face of multiple high profile industry people with connections to Deen making a point to express "solidarity" with Stoya and indicate knowledge of prior incidents, people are still eager to pull the "there's no police report" and "it's just some tweets" (actually, it's women speaking) as a way of casting doubt. It's depressingly familiar. What could any of these women stand to gain from an industry-wide conspiracy to blacklist Deen? Destruction of their career? Alienation of friends, colleagues, and employers? Public shaming? It doesn't make sense. Finally, I want to stress that the "die James Deen" type stuff being posted around the web is not something I'm interested in participating in. That doesn't help anyone. However, I stand in solidarity with the accuser/s just in the same way as I did when the several people in my life divulged their histories of sexual assault. I didn't ask them for a police report, and I didn't dismiss them for not having evidence. I believed them.
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jeffandersonn Deactivated User
1605 Posts 3/13
Posted - Nov 29 2015 : 2:08PM
I cannot stand him as a performer but if she doesn't have any proof.......nothing will happen in porn world. Plain and simple. every ten pornstars against him there are hundreds happy and ready to shoot with him/ for him.
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06
Posted - Nov 29 2015 : 2:22PM
Wow. I don't think I've ever encountered a person that missed the point of something more than you just did right there. That's either some grade-A trolling or ignorance that of which I have never encountered before.
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klies Deactivated User
1733 Posts 5/09
Posted - Nov 29 2015 : 2:25PM
Really?!?! so we just believe every word that comes out of her mouth? come to my country and you will learn why women accuse men of false rapes and destroy their lives.
^ Where is this land in which you reside? Oh but also, really, back in this country, what could she stand to gain? Edited by - Gore Gore Girl on 11/29/2015 2:30:38 PM
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Ben Mockridge Deactivated User
382 Posts 9/15
Posted - Nov 29 2015 : 2:30PM
You believing them is great but isnt society better served when rapists get prosecuted and punished. Do you think posting allegations on twitter is treating rape with the respect it deserves ? Surely if youve got the willingness to disclose to the extent of posting on twitter then reporting it to the police is a small step further and that is where best interest is served. Otherwise we're just left with twitter talk and as jeff observes nothing changes in pornland.
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manish88 Deactivated User
55 Posts 5/13
Posted - Nov 29 2015 : 4:32PM
James Deen should sue her. That will teach her the right way of doing things. If she was raped she should have reported the matter to the police, immediately or later. Accusing someone like that on twitter so that thousands of idiots can join you in the character assassination of that person is not the right way.
^The way Stoya handled this is probably the worst way possible though.
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manish88 Deactivated User
55 Posts 5/13
Posted - Nov 29 2015 : 5:20PM
^^ No, what you and hundreds of others like you are doing on twitter is the appropriate response. I am more scared (and hateful towards) of such people than murderers and rapists. Edited by - manish88 on 11/29/2015 5:20:44 PM
^ Wait, let me get this straight. You're actually more angry at people who send out inappropriate tweets than you are at murderers? I think you need to get your priorities in order. Bad tweets = bad. Murder = very, very bad.
Yeah I had similar thoughts as well. We have to ask just what kind of sex, which we'll assume was at least initially consensual, were they having such that it required a safe word? I thought it coulda been one of those bondage scenes for Kink or some other BDSM brand. I mean, they don't spare much in those, but they do exercise absolute respect for safety and consent. I guess on the other hand, to be fair, we could also assume that there was no miscommunicating in the case in question, right? He didn't forget what the safe word was, and he didn't absent mindedly tune her out, right? We have to assume he was well aware and she was definitely clearly saying it. I'm ok accepting this assumption, but for the record, we have to recognize this is all we have because none of us was there to witness or hear. All we can do is speculate given the limited information.
I'm not so sure. I think there's a legit chance he could pay a price, which may not be in terms of criminal charges, but can still be stigmatizing and at the very least hurting his marketability. I know I'm flip flopping, because I just said there's still going to be tons of adoring female fans, even after they've heard about this. Even if he was convicted, he'd have those fans. It's sick. BUT to your point about hypothetically 10 pornstars lining against him, in that case he'd be blackballed. I know I bounce around a lot between cynical and naive, and in this case I say at the risk of seeming the latter that he'll be blackballed for sure with 10 performers against him. 1, no, but who knows? Women have more power in the industry than people recognize. I don't even think they realize it. But they make 2 to 10 times as much as male performers. If Dean has crossed one or two of the most prominent ones, he could be done. Even if apart from all this, no studio had plans on casting him with these prominent females. Why? Because all they have to do is tell the companies that want to hire them, if you hire him, I will not shoot for you. It's that simple. Who is worth more? 9 times out of 10, the woman is worth more. Again, put yourselves in the producers shoes. Even if he's the most popular guy in the biz, there's probably a hundred females out there who are worth more. If a clique of them turn against him, I won't say he's done, but his best days will definitely be behind him. Even if he's not convicted. Even if it doesn't go to trial. Even if it's not confirmed. If you're a dude and you done earned the wrath of these women, well, there's always gay 4 pay.
Calm your tits. I understood what you're saying perfectly. You're saying just because someone could make money off something doesn't mean they'd necessarily be inclined to. Duh. Ramsey COULD sell every meal he makes. But he's gotta eat. And you can't have your cake and eat it too. However, you CAN have sex and sell it too. This is why all I am saying is it's not the best analogy. So OF COURSE I don't expect every famous chef to try and profit off of every meal they make. Your point is valid, and yes I realize porn stars must be having all kinds of sex off-camera. But it's not quite the same scenario as pimping out pastrami on rye. So let's get to the case in question. There's a safe word involved, right? So that leads us to believe there's probably some form of bondage, right? Or at the least, it's beyond the run of the mill, garden variety sex right? So why wouldn't they want to record that on either of the iPhones? It's not hard. Nowadays it takes less effort to shoot a sex tape than it does to actually have the sex. lol. yes I said "have the sex." THE sex. edit: actually, come to think of it, I've heard many porn stars state that contrary to the assumptions most people may make about them, they seldom have sex outside of work. In many interviews I've heard both male and female performers even say the only sex they have is on camera. You could say they are just lying though. Edited by - Melvyn on 11/29/2015 6:29:26 PM
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jeffandersonn Deactivated User
1605 Posts 3/13
Posted - Nov 29 2015 : 6:34PM
unfortunately even if ten or more, or simply some of the top female performers out there refuse to shoot with him he is not done at all. He is a director, he is a producer and he owns a site. I say it again, there are hundreds of women ready to work with him. Untill Stoya shows some proof.
I suspect people acting like they are purveyors of truth and justice are just using it as a cover to hide what they really think; That Stoya is lying and making it up to harm James Deen. The non-biased act is such bs. Until the law actually gets involved, this will be waged in the court of public opinion so don't be afraid to say what you really think. The fact is that false-rape claims are minuscule in comparison to actual reported rapes, and based on what we know the chances are pretty good that she is telling the truth.
Woah, just hearing about this now. I like James Deen as a performer and I'm not going to act like I always thought something was off with him because I honestly didn't, but until he at least says something on this matter, why would anyone not believe Stoya and all the other women in the industry that support her? I don't know Joanna Angel or Dana Vespoli personally but they have a lot of credibility in the industry and I couldn't imagine them injecting themselves into this to defend Stoya unless they had good reason to believe her. Not to say James Deen doesn't have a lot a credibility too, but when so many people insist that you are a rapist, like Bill Cosby it's just does not look good for you.
^^Sure, I don't believe it at this point. I was willing at first but then I checked her website which has James' face all over it even on the front page and then you realise the terrible way she sort of nonchalantly brought this out. I need more to be convinced of something this severe. This upcoming week needs more developments of this issue. Also to the poster above, not all of these women are calling JD a rapist. There's a difference between that and simply standing by a friend. The case against JD is hardly as strong as some are implying. Edited by - 2bollocks on 11/29/2015 6:52:09 PM
stoya and james were in a relationship for a while, so the incident need not have been in scene. edit. seems killbill beat me to it. though I'm curious what type of "proof" people are looking for? video? him coming forward to to admit it? if there is smoke, there is fire.. and if several women have had similar issues with him, is that smoke? Edited by - yourmomma on 11/29/2015 6:59:45 PM
Bad wording. Try this: "In comparison to actual PROVEN rape cases". And from what I've seen I can tell you that the actual proven cases do not have women handling it like Stoya did. They don't just one day vaguely mention it on their twitter(And then announce that they won't respond to further questions for several weeks due to work) while still having business connections with the perpetrator, no they go to the law. And yeah sure there are reasons why some women don't want to report it. But what does this twitter thing accomplish? Trying to warn others and condemn the guy responsible but how would an official police report not do that? A report like that which goes public would be so much more effective and the alleged perpetrator could actually be punished. Edited by - 2bollocks on 11/29/2015 7:03:05 PM
Do any of you guys with some legal knowledge/experience think that James should stay quiet or make some type of statement on social media defending himself? It doesn't look good for your defense if someone is willing to directly, confidently and publicly call you out by name as a rapist. Edited by - Seijuro on 11/29/2015 7:16:33 PM
No love lost between Joanna and James. I know they broke up long ago, but I always thought the split was amicable since they performed together a number of times afterwards. "He’s dead on the inside and dead to me . He’s literally the worst person I’ve ever met . That’s all I’ll say for now #solidaritywithstoya" https://twitter.com/JoannaAngel/status/671029860999954433 Edited by - Seijuro on 11/29/2015 7:24:58 PM
It's funny how people think it's so easy and simple for someone who has been raped to just dust themselves off and promptly go to the police station and file a report. It's not like reporting having your car stolen. There are so many different factors involved including victims blaming themselves, the consequences of reporting, people not believing you for not coming forward immediately, shame, reliving the experience etc. Hell some people convince themselves they actually weren't raped and realize it they actually were down the line. But with everyone giving their 2 cents, has James Deen said anything yet.
What do we expect ex lovers to say though? I mean 9 times out of 10 it ain't pleasantries. Sounds like broken hearts. And why they keep working with him? Cuz they still want to get back with him. Love makes people stupid, and broken hearts make them even stupider still. These dames can't even bring themselves to put him on their no-list. So if ultimately they can't condemn him, how the hell am I expected to?
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Nov 29 2015 : 7:39PM
Certainly multiple accusations from Tori and Stoya make it something to take seriously. Joanna's comment as well. This reminds me of the Ghomeshi case in Canada. In that case it got so much media attention charges were brought, this being sex workers I'm afraid that may never happen.
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manish88 Deactivated User
55 Posts 5/13
Posted - Nov 29 2015 : 7:47PM
Actually I meant people who just read a tweet and go on character assassinating someone based on just a tweet which could easily be a lie. But now that you have mentioned it, it wasn't just a bad tweet. a poor twitter joke is what I would call a bad tweet, not a rape accusation on twitter or facebook. you cant just accuse someone of Rape on twitter and then go on with your life like nothing happened. I dont know about you but I have seen many instances of people lives getting ruined because of false accusations. A very similar incident happened in my country just few months back. Every person on twitter and national media called that guy a monster but when the truth came out, the girl was lying for a very small reason. I can not even begin to imagine the pain the guy had to go through for those few days. whole country hated him. Go to police station and report rape to cops. not to Twitter and Facebook. If she doesn't know that then she needs to be taught a lesson before its too late. James, please sue her. it is only for her best.
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JB_X Deactivated User
addled 1500 Posts 10/12
Posted - Nov 29 2015 : 7:49PM
I'm pretty sure neither Joanna nor Stoya has worked with him after their personal relationships ended. And they have both strongly and publicly condemned him very recently. What on earth are you talking about?
Deen put up a few general tweets just now, exclaiming his innocence. I'm not going to speculate on this one, one way or the other, but the whole thing is very sad...either way it falls out / fell out.
nothing yet on his blog which was updated just today
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ChuckTheFreak Deactivated User
925 Posts 8/10
Posted - Nov 29 2015 : 8:09PM
Like many of you, I can not stand the guy. However, I do have a huge problem with all these girls, including girls in porn....who claim to LOVE rough sex, being chocked, hell, they even chock themselves while being fucked, among other things. Something I've seen Stoya do many times, even to herself being fucked. I mean as a guy, I get nervous that when is it enough....to them? I know you can set up some sort of a safe word, but what if you get so zoned out being chocked and slapped and hair pulled (which you claim you get off on), that you only say your safe word in your mind and the guy can't even hear it and keeps going. So is it rape, then? I mean it's a disaster waiting to happen. I do not get this rape fetish, and these girls do make me nervous. I am in no way shape or form defending Deen. Never got his appeal, being a tiny midget with a huge ego and short-man complex. However, these girls do need to smarten up, or really reflect on what they're actually projecting to their partners in sex...when they say they want these things done to them.
James Deen @ Adult Empire
Posted - Nov 29 2015 : 11:47AM
