I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06
Posted - Dec 1 2015 : 9:37AM
Why shouldn't people take sides without absolute proof? I'm not on the jury. I can have an opinion based on what facts are available. I can draw conclusions based on those facts. What's wrong with that? It's one thing if you're saying that nobody should be claiming guilt or innocence with any degree of certainty. But what I can say is that based on what I know now, I think Stoya is the more credible of the two, I am inclined to believe her, and I am siding with her, more so than with Deen. Just because something doesn't go to trial with a definitive outcome doesn't mean that me or anybody else is forbidden to have an opinion on it. I'm also not obligated to hold myself to the same standards as the US legal system. Just because someone is found not guilty, I'm not obligated to think they aren't guilty. Nor am I obligated to believe someone is guilty because they were convicted. Often times court decisions are determined not by a preponderance of evidence, but instead by some technicality. I think based on the law OJ Simpson was rightfully acquitted in his murder trial because the police and prosecution made such a mess of things, but I still think he murdered his ex wife.
Jessie Rogers was the first one (the one no one takes seriously, and my first assumption). The gamer aspect meant my second assumption was Mia Rose.I wouldn't be surprised if that was one of the things that triggered her into finally talking about it (while James has 4 scenes on the site, the other three are scenes from her movie that she shot, Graphic Descriptions). This would have been the first scene uploaded to the site of him that she hadn't shot, and the pseudo-rape aspect of it could have made it a bit too much to just let go. Edited by - whatsatelephonebill on 12/1/2015 9:42:26 AM
sorry if I missed it but I think I read the whole thread and didn't see it - isn't there video evidence that the cops could use to determine to some degree what really happened?
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pervybrit50 Deactivated User
473 Posts 11/13
Posted - Dec 1 2015 : 10:05AM
It wasn't a porn shoot-it was in their private life. She didn't report it so there was no chance any physical evidence could be gathered.
demicomix.com Carnal Comics - True Stories of Adult Film Stars 105 Posts 6/04
Posted - Dec 1 2015 : 11:17AM
[/quote] I don't want to criticize her, but Jessie Rogers before speaking against the porn industry was active on this forum and I remember her talking with enthusiasm of a scene with James Deen, Keiran Lee and Tony T so rough that this scene wasn't even released, even if the scene was for Pornstar punishment. And nobody forced her to comment about that scene (even because nobody knew about it) that she described as the favorite of her career or something like that. Actually she said that the scene was so rough because her wanted it to be like this. So, even if she changer her mind about the industry I don't think that James Deen has anything to do with this in this case. Edited by - leatherface on 12/1/2015 6:00:05 AM [/quote] I saw a Hardcore Gangbang scene in which I noticed that Jessie Rogers was smiling during part of the gangbang. She came across like she was amused at what was happening. It was subtle enough that the smiling didn't seem to be planned as part of the scene. When Jessie was interviewed, she talked about doing a gangbang in real life.
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FlacFan Deactivated User
10088 Posts 8/15
Posted - Dec 1 2015 : 12:00PM
A few people seem to be missing the point. What happened 1, 100 or 1000 times before is irrelevant. The second either or any one involved not only says no, but then also uses an agreed on safe word, the activity is over. It matters not if Jessie, Stoya or a girl down the street has performed a gangbang, been tied up, ass fucked, what ever, the second "No" or a safe word is invoked the encounter is over. Boycott James Deen, Silicone Is Evil, Razors Aren't Much Better
Seriously? So if you gather a bunch of friends supporting this one friend/colleague, you would automatically assume there's some truth to the accusation? And to add to that, not one single person have gone to the police? I don't buy it. Reading about this "rape" at this party, not speaking up because "what about my career etc." shows just how dumb this is. If you don't fucking speak up against rape because you're afraid of your career, you don't get any sympathy from me. Rape is horrendous and accusations about it is severe. If James Deen is truly innocent in this he should take legal action like any normal person who's been put in a situation where they've been the victim. I don't fancy this ridiculous mob-mentality where one person gets judged without clear and desicive evidence. Looking at James Deen's tweets and the responses he gets now, it's absolutely embarrasing. If Stoya or anyone else for that matter, has been raped, they should always take it to the place where they deal with such serious matters in a professional way. Not posting on fucking twitter. To me it seems more like a bitter ex now to be honest.
How long was she married to him? When did they split? When was the incident in question? By her tweet, does this mean he could have done this to her more than once? Once is bad enough, but maybe in their private life this was common. Maybe she finally had enough. Is that when they split up? Was this the reason? Or were there other reasons? Did she already want to leave him before the incident, and this was the final nail in the coffin of their relationship? Can we get a timeline of all this?
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klies Deactivated User
1733 Posts 5/09
Posted - Dec 1 2015 : 1:39PM
^ I hope 99% people in the thread never ever sits on a jury. oh it is just my opinion, I totally believe her and I am ready to call someone a rapist based on just that. Who cares about any evidence because women never lie. They are not humans so they can not lie. she doesnt even have to explain herself because she is a woman.
Mentioned on the previous page, for those who missed it:Can anyone here make sense of that story? Keep in mind, it allegedly took place in 2009, so maybe the details are a bit foggy to her in this interview. But it can't be just me confused by this. Let's get down to brass tacks. Unless I'm just not getting it, she was in a room with several other people present. And James forcefully raped her? No one else remembers this? But then she says "it felt like a weird gray area." How is this gray? You just said he forced himself on you. And that final statement is the most bizarre of all. She says she doesn't think anyone there knew that what he was doing wasn't consensual. So how are people supposed to perceive that as rape? It sounds like she's telling on herself and admitting she was playing along, playing to the crowd. I mean, if you are witnessing a forceful rape, I don't think it could be assumed that you didn't realize what was going on was not consensual. But here she is assuming all the other people, possibly even James himself, didn't know it was not consensual. Say what?? How does one rape your mouth without a gun or weapon or physically assaulting and overpowering you? And with several witnesses around? Bite his dick. Please. If he persists, bite it clean off. Or was this the Gang Deen, a bunch of thugs encircling her, mean mugging and cracking their knuckles menacingly? She says it was at the AVN show. Look, we can be cynical about the industry, but I don't think people are going to just stand idly by and watch a man physically assault a girl who clearly doesn't want to have sex with him, and force his penis into her orifices. Do you know how desperate thirsty porn fans are to cape for a damsel in distress? If she so much as hints she is uncomfortable, dudes are going to launch themselves at the punk abusing her. Dudes are constantly looking for an excuse to knock the next dude out, especially if they have a greenlight to do it in defense of a female. There's countless videos on the web of guys getting knocked out cold for harassing women. You could make a 10 hour long "Nothing But Knockouts" style compilation of these. It even happens when the woman was the instigator lol. No I'm not suggesting this mystery woman was the instigator. I can easily believe Deen was initiating this entanglement. But what are you doing just sitting there and letting the amped up man child climb all over you like a monkey on a jungle gym? I can believe he was an aggressor and he moved in on her, but shit. Just cuz he has some fans doesn't mean you have to surrender your body. Punch him square in the nuts. Bite his dick. I mean... You're blowing him and spreading for him in front of people? Come on son. He's still a dirtbag, but that is not rape. That was a drunken slut looking for attention and learns to regret it later. She basically spells it all out for us. You guys ever see how those bachelorette parties go down? I don't mean the staged ones with paid performers in the female audience. I mean the authentic homegrown ones. James Deen did his untamed playboy routine and she obliged him in her drunken stupor accepting his penis into her mouth and vagina. If you're talking about rape there must be some at least some form of coercion going on, right? Saying someone forced his or herself on you doesn't mean anything, because even consensual sex requires at least one partner forcing their body onto or into the other's. So his dick is sawing inside your mouth, even if this was consensual that still necessitates forceful action. If you're going to accuse someone of rape and you're saying they forced you, that suggests some kind of physical conflict, whether it be grappling, wrestling, or striking or whatever. OR there was some kind of blackmail/coercion or manipulation going on. So what exactly was he leveraging against her? His popularity? Fan presence? Was she drugged? Did someone threaten to hurt her if she didn't comply? I hate to have to ask these questions, and I feel like ghoul because I've already played devil's advocate in here in my attempts to get to some objective understanding of all this. But in this particular story, I hate to say it but it sounds much more like regret than rape. It's ok. You were drunk and at a wild AVN party. I'm sure you weren't the only one doing stupid regrettable things. But we can't crucify someone else and absolve you of all responsibility for surrendering your orifices when you admit all the witnesses there wouldn't think it was non-consensual. That sounds like you sold it pretty damn hard to appear consensual for no one to believe what they are witnessing is rape. Couldn't someone just flip that "forced" bit around and say she forced her head onto my dick and blew me like a champ? She "forced" her hips down on my rod over and over. I had to just sit there and take it, with all my fans around, I had to live up to the hype. Yeah it's ridiculous, but so is calling something rape when you just conceded you gave zero indication you resisted. Am I being unfair here with this scrutiny? Or is this mystery woman's story an example of exaggerative pile-on? Edited by - Melvyn on 12/1/2015 2:46:54 PM
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06
Posted - Dec 1 2015 : 2:00PM
If your boss stole some money from your desk (you saw him, and it's your word against his) would you go to the police to report him if you knew there was a good chance it could end your career? What if you knew you had no proof other than your word so it was unlikely that he would be convicted anyway? How far would you be willing to further harm your own well-being in order to "do the right thing?" People seem really quick to tell others how to do the right thing, but usually aren't nearly so quick to do it themselves. I don't care for mob mentality either, but victim-blaming isn't any better.
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manish88 Deactivated User
55 Posts 5/13
Posted - Dec 1 2015 : 2:10PM
Right! But who is the victim here? How can you tell? How can you be so sure?
It depends on the amount. You can't compare a smell-petty crime vs. a huge crime that rape is. If I was raped I imagine I would do all in my power to go to the right department to report the crime... And there's no certainty in that it actually would hurt ones career. It's just speculation. Rape-situations I would think in most cases are word against word, but that's no excuse not to report it. The right thing is to report it as soon as possible after the incident. I can only speak for myself, and thankfully I haven't been raped, but if I was, I would never let it go without involving the department that is meant to protect the citizens. No, who the victim is we don't know, because there hasn't been any investigation. Portraying an individ as rapist over twitter without involving the right department, is not ok...
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06
Posted - Dec 1 2015 : 2:28PM
I'm not positive, but considering the number of allegations piling up against James, it seems reasonable to give his accusers the benefit of the doubt right now. That said, people are saying "if she was raped she should have..." and that is victim blaming no matter how you try and frame it. If she was raped, then she is the victim and you're trying to blame her for not doing what you think she should do. that's victim blaming.
Thanks for saying everything I was too lazy to type. Stupid mobile device and Swype. Yeah, I can't call him a convicted rapist. But with what's coming out, I can him a POS. Sorry if that's ain't etiquette. A performer had posted on a forum that I've been apart of for the past 15yrs. Totally unrelated to the biz. He would always tell us does stories. Years ago we asked him about Deen. He told us how he had broken a girl(his friend) jaw during a scene. Probably not "wired shut" broken, if imagine we would've heard about that(maybe). He said it was kept quiet for various reason. Now that's all unsubstantiated. He didn't give the girls name and not charges were filed. But at the same point, they had zero reason to lie. Fast forward to the present and more stories like that are coming out. Seeing this dude being heralded as a feminist would chap my ass too. So, enough evidence to convict him? nope. But there is enough smoke to suggest homeboy is standing too close to the fire he seems to have started.
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06
Posted - Dec 1 2015 : 2:32PM
You're right, you can't compare a petty crime to a sexual assault/rape because a sexual assault/rape is far, far more traumatic for the victim. Suggesting that it is just a matter of dusting one's self off and reporting the crime shows that you have no idea what sort of effects this type of crime can have on the victim. you can spout of platitudes about how things should be, but in the real world, victims of such crimes aren't always going to report them because of the very nature of the crime they were victim to.
That's why we all have to work and spread the word that it is perfectly OK to report a severe crime. No, I can't really imagine what victims of rape go through, but nevertheless they should report the crime. If they don't, the very least they can do is report it when they're ready, when they feel they are strong enough to do it. The victims have a responsibility also. If it don't report it, the person doing the crime can continue with what he/she's doing without consequences. Going on twitter like Stoya did and writing what she did is horrible. I hope Stoya/Deen takes it to court, so it gets settled. If Deen has done something wrong, he should be punished. Same goes for Stoya, accusing a person for a severe crime (in this case ex-bf) is also a severe crime if it is untrue.
I believe her, but it just doesn't seem like enough people are asking relevant questions. I almost sense that people are afraid to ask questions for fear of the presumption that they are victim blaming. Men are compelled by physiological mechanisms to respond with compassion and sympathy when they perceive a woman grieving. There was some scientific study showing that female tears lower testosterone in men. I'm not simply talking about when a dude-bro sees a girl is sobbing, he consciously calculates oh she's vulnerable so now I can swoop in and feign compassion. That's typical and conscious. I'm talking about a chemical reaction in which exposure to female tears automatically induce lower testosterone levels in men. My point is, guys instinctively dont want to upset girls. So it's easier to just nod and agree than to challenge. Maybe it's why I have to keep admitting I feel bad for even posing genuinely curious questions. I feel like we're just getting to the point where rationalization is an automatic violation of the "safe space."
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IkeMan Deactivated User
40 Posts 12/15
Posted - Dec 1 2015 : 3:22PM
I know it's easy to say now, but I always had a kind of dubious feeling about "James Deen" (whatever his real name may be). He always had something of a textbook psychopath and the only benefit of a doubt I granted him, was that this was part of his role as an actor rather than being part of his genuine personality. His whole style of fucking is essentially based on aggressively using women as if they were objects that don't deserve any respect and treating them like shit. It always surprised me that some women - including some self-labelled "feminists" liked that shit. I guess if someone would have said something critical about him before these allegations popped up, these critical notions would have been dismissed as "hateration", "envy" or as "prudish". And this despite the fact that "James Deen" has been mentioned before by reputable performers as someone who goes too far. I remember one incident that has been mentioned by industry veteran Lisa Ann, who refused to work with him ever again after he essentially beat her up for a "Pornstars Punishments" scene. Now that we are closer to the truth, I would like to ask his female admirers: what attracted you to a misogynist rapist like James Deen in the first place? Didn't you realize that this guy (obviously) has psychopathic tendencies? If you didn't then you clearly lack basic common sense. Or do you actually like the idea of being used by men who treat you like shit, slap you, choke you and ram their dicks psychopathically into your bodily orifices and your throat?
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Canadian_Cindy Deactivated User
1102 Posts 2/15
Posted - Dec 1 2015 : 3:27PM
I will say that Twitter has become too much a part of people's lives. Rape allegations should not be first made on twitter and then go from there. Take the allegations through proper legal channels and then announce it on twitter. Doing it this way sensationalizes it so much that the original and very serious allegations might end up losing their way. There is so much smoke here and so many "rumors" over the recent years; and companies so eager to terminate contact with him before anything is even investigated.... that tells me a lot right there. I just dislike things becoming a "twitter war". Edited by - Canadian_Cindy on 12/1/2015 3:28:50 PM
I agree with you that the futility of what police can actually do in this case is an undeniable factor. There's apparently no way to prove she was raped, right? So it's like, what's the point? We shouldn't discourage women from still filing the reports though. It is definitely in their best interest. For the record, for documenting that it happened or was at the least brought to the attention of law enforcement. For spreading awareness, it definitely helps legitimize the claim. But also remember, Stoya is her own woman. She is not dependent on him for work. She may have done scenes with him for his brand, but she's so popular, she could work with anyone else. Again, these women are not powerless. They are not helpless. She can make more money per scene than he can. She has her own site too, right? We can't believe she felt the potential harm for herself was greater in reporting her rape, if we grant her version as the absolute truth, than if she doesn't. Whatever potential job opportunity it could cost her would easily be made up by working instead with other companies. These top stars are NOT hurting for work. Some of them can earn 6 digits per year. Here's another question your analogy brings up, who was actually making more? Does anyone know? I doubt we can get exact numbers, but I'm sure there are analysts in the industry who have a pretty good idea. I wouldn't be surprised if it was her.
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jeffandersonn Deactivated User
1605 Posts 3/13
Posted - Dec 1 2015 : 4:07PM
they uploaded a new scene with him and dana vespoli the 26 of november!!! and 2 days later Stoya drops the bomb accusing him but still trying to make money from his scenes is the dumbest move ever.
^ Stoya said she had a safe word and Deen ignored it. People who engage in rough consensual sex have safeguards in place to prevent abuse. And on virtually every mainstream porn set in the US if a woman says, "Stop" everyone will stop. Saying Stoya set herself up to get raped because she likes rough sex is seriously the stupidest fucking thing I have ever read on this forum, which is no small prize to claim. I have absolutely no problem telling the difference between consensual rough sex and rape. Your ignorance is astounding. Edited by - Mister Fahrenheit on 12/1/2015 4:24:02 PM
I understand the perceived conflict here, but on the other hand, the way I look at it is I can resent someone deeply and still not let it fuck with my money. She's going to make money off this scene via the publicity. Same with Vespoli. It isn't just Stoya's time invested in that scene. Producers invested in it and they intend to profit. It doesn't mean they endorse what Deen is accused of. Obviously they shot this scene before Stoya's expose of him. They're not doing anything wrong.
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IkeMan Deactivated User
40 Posts 12/15
Posted - Dec 1 2015 : 4:29PM
I'm not sure whether your statement is a reply to my comment? If so (please indicate so): in no way did I imply that "Stoya"herself up to get raped!!! I highlighted the confusion that I share with other men about women who are into consensual quasi-rape sex and the implications it has in regards to actual rape: the blurring of the lines. If you had read my initial comment you could have prevented the cognitive underperformance that you just showcased due to your erroneous assumption about my person.
At least it isn't a recent production. It's quite possible that the performers who own the site have little to do with its choice of scenes / updates, though I do agree that the oddity gives one pause.
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Canadian_Cindy Deactivated User
1102 Posts 2/15
Posted - Dec 1 2015 : 4:47PM
This is why porn stars and women in general don't come forward. They will have to face attacks and blame such as that and so they try to move forward with the shame, and it goes unreported. Maybe in 2115 society will be more accepting that rape is rape no matter who is doing it or what you did the seconds before the rape occurred.
^^^ The little up arrow: '^' means I was responding to you. And in a discussion concerning the alleged rape of a performer, what other possible relevance to the conversation could claiming that, "For men it becomes increasingly difficult to differentiate" between consensual rough sex and rape have? If you didn't think that point somehow pertained to Deen and Stoya then why did you bring it up at all in this thread? Either you were trying to make the implication or it is just a complete non sequitur. Edited by - Mister Fahrenheit on 12/1/2015 4:48:40 PM
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john_qyoo_public Deactivated User
265 Posts 7/05
Posted - Dec 1 2015 : 4:53PM
I loathe Deen, but I'll answer anyway. In my experience, a great many women are willing to tell enormous lies about people they don't like, justice be damned. And that's not counting the porn industry effect, where the crazy is dialed way, way up from the population at large. I find "did she bring charges?" to be a decent substitute for a bright line. If a woman is just making snide accusations (as all of Deen's accusers are, so far), they fall short of that bright line for me. If she brings charges, she at least is putting her money where her mouth is. Not perfect, but better than taking gossip as Gospel. That said, I hope Deen gets what's coming to him. Edited by - john_qyoo_public on 12/1/2015 4:55:33 PM
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john_qyoo_public Deactivated User
265 Posts 7/05
Posted - Dec 1 2015 : 4:57PM
The problem here is that you have to downgrade rape to a crime as damaging as petty theft to make your point work. And once you've done that, well, you're not talking about much of a crime, now are you?
Ashley Fires is the latest to accuse Deen. http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/11/30/james-deen-the-bill-cosby-of-porn.html
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IkeMan Deactivated User
40 Posts 12/15
Posted - Dec 1 2015 : 5:15PM
Your pseudo-rhetoric and wannabe-terminology does not help the cause! I actually dislike this so called "James Deen" guy and I stated in my initial comment that I don't understand why women (including self-proclaimed feminists) actually admire him and his degrading and misogynist style of abusing women, which seems to me counter-indicative of what a feminist should stand for! So, (unlike many self-proclaimed feminists) I clearly have no sympathy or admiration for this "James Deen" guy or any other rapists - be it on-camera rapists or off-camera rapists. Why does it overtax your cognitive system to comprehend this simple fact? It's not me who raped women - it's "James Deen" - someone who has been admired by self-proclaimed "sex-positive feminists" for a long time - not by me! My next point is a somehow related issue, but doesn't refer to the exact "Stoya" incident as such. I'm trying to raise a question here: don't you think it is problematic that the lines have been increasingly blurred (thesis), due to a trend towards aggressive quasi-rape (but consensual) sex? It it always possible to ensure consensuality, when rough sex implies that the man acts dominantly, proactively and aggressively towards a woman? I find this to be a relevant and legitemate question! I get the feeling that you have an ideological issue with my question? Do you actually prefer to censor and ban these kind of questions, so that certain aspects of sex culture are forbidden from being scrutinized? (my English is not perfect, I'm not a native speaker) Edited by - IkeMan on 12/1/2015 5:17:20 PM
I suggest you start another thread and raise the question there. When you bring up this alleged blurring of the line between rough consensual sex and rape in a thread about the alleged rape of a woman, you create the impression that you are trying to draw a connection between the two things. Edited by - Mister Fahrenheit on 12/1/2015 5:24:21 PM
If you don't mind a slight detour to the Deen case, could you explain why you think Venice is guilty beyond the fact that he was convicted? Everything I've ever read about it points to the exact opposite conclusion. Nothing about that case pointed to his guilt, and I have no stake in that case whatsoever. I have no reason to defend him, other than from what I've learned about the case, it was a travesty of justice. One that the porn community seems to have no problem with.
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IkeMan Deactivated User
40 Posts 12/15
Posted - Dec 1 2015 : 5:35PM
I actually think that it belongs in this thread!
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klies Deactivated User
1733 Posts 5/09
Posted - Dec 1 2015 : 5:35PM
How are you sure that they had a safe word and Deen ignored it? How are you sure that she was raped? ....right i forgot because she said so.
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klies Deactivated User
1733 Posts 5/09
Posted - Dec 1 2015 : 5:42PM
yeah no victim blaming in any form, shape and size. this is the 21st century gift to the woman. If you were robbed or someone attempted to murder you and you dont report it then no one will come forward and say please don't blame the victim for any of that. but when it comes to any kind of sex crime against woman then if you doubt her or ask any question or tell her that she should have done this or that then you are a very bad person. thanks god at least courts need evidence to convict someone, not just what she said. If you accuse someone of a serious crime then you should be ready to answer few questions. Edited by - klies on 12/1/2015 5:44:33 PM
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06
Posted - Dec 1 2015 : 6:49PM
At no point was anyone trying to say that Stoya or anyone else shouldn't report the crime. What some people are saying is that for a laundry list of reasons that some people here either don't understand, choose to ignore or otherwise unaware of, not all rapes are reported and the continued suggestion of "if she didn't report it she's lying" or "she didn't report it, so her claim isn't legitimate" or "she didn't report it, we shouldn't take her seriously" or any other cop-outs relating to her not reporting the alleged crime, don't hold water. In a perfect world Stoya would have already filed charges. Of course in a perfect world, no one would ever get raped. We clearly don't live in a perfect world. Holding people to an unattainable standard isn't helping to further the discussion.
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06
Posted - Dec 1 2015 : 6:52PM
I haven't downgraded anything. I've made a comparison. And people are saying that she should do it because it is the right thing to do. If that's the case, then the amount of money or severity of the crime shouldn't matter. Thanks for helping me illustrate that point.
If JD is not guilty of sexual assault then this mob of women claiming to be his victims have all done a helluva job of organizing the destruction of this man's life.
"It takes courage to enjoy it: the hardcore and the gentle...Big Time Sensuality!"
If you don't report the crime you shouldn't cry and whine about it when you did 0 about it yourself. Using twitter as the first platform to come forward with such serious matters is just ridiculous even if it's the truth! Just think of the damage this woman can do to Deen if it's not the truth. Just horrible to think about. I sympathize more with Deen than Stoya at present, because the general public has no way to decide whether or not it's true.
James Deen @ AEBN
Posted - Dec 1 2015 : 8:48AM
