I wonder if this is the same amount of proof she needs(twitter allegations) to get convinced if someone accuses Manuel Ferrera of rape!! No follow up , no more other statements. I wonder if how Stoya made the allegations is strategic..
^So the public has no way to know what actually happened, but you are more concerned about the damage to Deen's reputation if not true than the damage he caused Stoya if it is? Makes sense since we all know false rape claims happen way more often than women actually being raped.
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jeffandersonn Deactivated User
1605 Posts 3/13
Posted - Dec 1 2015 : 7:16PM
add Amber Rain to that list. apparently Deen sent her to the hospital........ Edited by - jeffandersonn on 12/1/2015 7:25:20 PM
That depends if a bunch of women came out providing similar stories about Manuel. If it was just one person with little credibility, and then a bunch of people said that they had no problems with him, it would be a different story than what's going on with Deen. There really isn't anyone supporting Deen and providing bad personal experiences with Stoya. At best, we have a bunch of people who don't know Stoya attacking her, and espousing Anti-Feminist rhetoric disguised as just wanting to know the truth.
Innocent until proven guilty. Not the other way around. Stoya has done something actively to damage Deen now that she spoke out on twitter. It's the wrong way to go about it. From her side the damage has been done whether it's the truth or not. I dearly hope Deen takes this to court if it's not true, because from now and forward on, he will have this "rape-label" on him... I'm concerned about Deens mental situation as others are with Stoyas mental situation. The fact she used twitter as platform to come forward with this makes me sympathize with Deen. If she would've done it like normal people do, I would've waited for the outcome of a trial to sympathize with any. False rape claims happen, it can ruin lives, that's why you should go about it the right way.
Of course it's easy to tell the difference between consensual rough sex and rape, but is it easy for a woman to tell the difference between a man who's looking for the one and a man who's looking for the other (or both)? Seeking sexual partners for "rapey" roleplay strikes me as a high-risk activity, because of the likelihood of ending up with a sexual predator who'll merely feign respect of your chosen boundaries until he has you in a situation where he no longer needs to. If what's being alleged about Deen is true, producers of Kink-style porn might have quite the disaster on their hands (and I think this is why Kink has dropped him so quickly) - I recall quite a few non-mainstream performers who pretty much said that the reason they're shooting porn for Kink and similar companies is because it allows them to have certain types of sex in a "safe" way compared to out in the real world. If Deen has abused that trust placed in the porn industry...
If nothing else, I hope that this whole affair will show adult film actresses just how powerful their voices--in unison--truly are. Aside from the saddening subject matter, this is an awe-inspiring display. (The next time someone chooses to mistreat an actress, he/she will probably think twice.)
Edited by - fu_q on 12/1/2015 8:10:00 PM
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TrumanBurbank Deactivated User
890 Posts 2/12
Posted - Dec 1 2015 : 8:49PM
Seems like this guy had the perfect life and blew it. Sad. He was pretty much universally loved by all girls. Girls were applying from all over the world to fuck him. And he blew it. Wow.
There's something I don't get...I'm not siding with the Deen supporters and not saying the women aren't being truthful but...what about the directors? Isn't the director the guiding force on the set? Why did they allow Deen to do this on their set? The women in porn are the most valuable and it seems like the director would be more protective of them and the whole porn shoot. Why risk becoming a director that allows such things? Wouldn't that be a horrible rep to have? If this happened or is happening under the watch of certain directors...are those girls continuing to shoot for these directors? Again, not saying I don't believe the women but it seems strange that this type of thing would happen over and over and the people making the movies wouldn't put an end to it. What's their incentive to allow this to go on?
Agree with sentiments expressed above that out of the most horrible of events some good seems to be emerging. Women coming together to protect each other. A frank discussion of boundaries. Companies and directors put on notice that they will be held at least partially responsible if they allow non-consensual conduct and abuse on their sets. This could be a watershed moment for the industry. "The Stoya Rules" could and should become the only acceptable standard in porn. Female performers should form some sort of association with pro-bono representation and every new incident should be reported and pursued to resolution including using criminal and civil action as appropriate. Deen may have unwittingly turned out to be a feminist after all.
Holy shit. Even matchmaker is in the shitstorm. Sausage boy is one of the less ugly male porn performers, so excluding his work tilts the field to ogres.
Seriously "The Bill Cosby" of porn? James Deen to Bill Cosby??? Are these people fucking serious!! It's this disproportional comparison that's highly dangerous to real victims of rape. Based on the vitriol here you would swear that James Deen is roaming the San Fernando valley in a tinted van kidnapping and raping college girls on their way to class. I've more respect for Christy Mack since she went immediately to the police to put that POS War Machine behind bars but in this case it's obvious Stoya (and many other posters here) have an ax to grind based on a casual twitter post before announcing her absence from social media but the flapping capes of internet white knights has drowned out any voice of reason; remember this is the same Stoya who got kicked out of Digital Playground because she was so difficult to work with and people forget there is a LOT of politics in play behind the scenes in the industry that we fans don't see. And while I'm no fan of Deen's work with the whole foot on the head thing of female performers James Deen's stuff is pretty tame in comparison to some of the earlier work of Mike Stefano or even Rocco who chocked the shit out of Roxy Jezel in a scene while dangling her by her throat while ass fucking her. While James Deen may be seen as an asshole (and possibly is) with an issue of knowing boundaries he is no "rapist".
The thing that bothers me is Stoya drops this bomb shell then goes dark for a couple of weeks, timing just seems too convenient, like she wants her ex to twist in the wind for a few weeks (not saying shes not telling the truth just that the timing is suspicious)
Yeah, even weirder, why did it take this long in this thread for anyone to bring this up? I mean, these were among my first thoughts. I've already touched on many other related concerns, but... so much of this just seems bizarre. It sounds like there are so many accounts that there's no way in hell this wasn't fairly common knowledge among performers or industry insiders. So they were all just waiting for Stoya's story? I'm glad they can finally vent if this was something they'd all been bottling up for so many years. But surely they confided much of this already amongst each other. Many are friends. If you're a celeb you can't scratch your ass without everyone in this industry knowing about it. Even for stuff that gets edited out, that knowledge spreads like wildfire. Anyways, the knives were clearly out, and JD is going down like Caesar right about now, wading in a pool of his own blood.
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Dec 1 2015 : 10:37PM
@Flypostman, you seem pretty sure, based on very little, just your imoression of his on camera behaviour. And it isn't just Stoya have you read what Tori Lux and Ashkey Fires had to say about his assaults on them? Edited by - BlackSix on 12/1/2015 10:39:20 PM
But what trial can there be? I mean think about it. Proving spousal rape is about as futile as it gets. General abuse is easier to prove cuz there's typically marks or signs of abuse. Considering the circumstances of a bondage scenario and a safe word, this isn't merely her word against his, it's she said she said versus he did or didn't hear what she said or didn't. There's no way to prove this. Even if she had bruising or tearing in her nether orifices, he can always just say it was rough but still consensual. If they were together for 4 years, I also have a hard time believing there was only this one instance of rough sex getting out of hand. What if the situation she described, using a safe word and him not relenting, was common in their sex life? What if they're just really fucking perversely freaky like that? People have far stranger kinks than this. Honestly though, it may sound fucked up, but this is why I think general domestic violence, like corporal abuse, e.g. beating, striking, etc, is either worse, or simply perceived as worse, than spousal rape. In no way does this make spousal rape any better than what it is, but it's a peculiar distinction versus in the general community, amongst 2 random strangers, where the opposite is true. Then rape is definitely worse than general violence. There's a world of difference. We are conditioned to think of rape as the worst of all crimes because the vast majority of crimes we follow are those in the general community, mostly of the general types of violence, assault, while rape is, to quote Law and Order: SVU, especially heinous. Oftentimes people make it out to be even worse than murder. It's to do with notions of dignity and innocence. I mean think about it. If a random stranger beats up some random woman, he's a vicious animal. If he raped her, it's gonna be pretty understandably unanimous he's flat out irredeemable and dead to society. If a man beats his wife or girlfriend, he's about as low and irredeemable as it gets, look no further than War Machine. If he raped his wife or girlfriend, he's definitely an animal, but its not like the physical abuse is on the level of a straight up beating, and it's not like he and she never had rough sex before. It's just however far beyond rough sex it goes and enters cruelty and abuse. Unless the allegation is beating on top of rape, in which case it's obviously the worst of both worlds. I just read a couple accounts by other female performers who claimed he hurt them so bad they couldn't work for weeks, and that he anally raped at least one of them. That's definitely beyond the worst of both worlds. It makes you wonder what sort of purpose a guy like this serves in society. Being so popular among adoring females, and yet seeming like his greatest enjoyment comes from inflicting misery upon them. These accusations go back at least as far as 2009. I didn't even know this guy existed back then. So just how long has this been the norm for him? Was he always this way? I never watched any of his scenes. None that come to mind ever.
Interesting, I didn't know of this and I'm sure others didn't either. So much for those who were saying Stoya has a completely clean past in comparison to Deen.
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06
Posted - Dec 1 2015 : 11:33PM
Well to my knowledge she's never been accused of rape or sexual assault so yeah, she does have a completely clean past in comparison to Deen. I'm a fucking asshole. I'm sure you can dig up some people that think I'm difficult to work with. That hardly puts me on the same level as an alleged rapist.
She did not get kicked out of DP because she was too difficult to work with. DP let her go when they let pretty much all of their contract performers go. So they must have found Jesse Jane and Riley Steele too difficult to work with too, then.
It's about her credibility, not about trying to make her look like a rapist. If she got let go from a company because of her behavior then that is something that should be a reminder when considering her credibility which is obviously going to be looked at if she puts herself in the situation she just put herself in. Hopefully somebody goes into detail about Stoya and her ending with DP. What I suspect is that people are either going to write it off right away or will get angry for the mere mention of it, even though everything about Deen's past is being brought up and usually believed immediately. It'll be interesting. PS: Good sense of self-awareness from you.
I did read it and I don't dispute that what occurred in the case of Ashley Fires and Tori Lux but in those cases it was assault & battery not rape. What Bill Cosby did was rape and what War machine did was even worse with brutal assault, rape and attempted murder. JD maybe an abusive douche but he's not a serial rapist as described by Stoya. Like I said this revelation from Stoya is too vague and a bit too calculated/manipulative for my tastes.
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06
Posted - Dec 2 2015 : 12:04AM
Being difficult to work with has nothing to do with her credibility. Who she has dated, what clothes she wears, what tattoos she has, what she eats, who she hangs out with, what she does in her free time, and plenty of other totally irrelevant things have nothing to do with her credibility. Has she falsely accused people of things in the past? That might adversely affect her credibility. Is she known to lie frequently? That would affect her credibility. Being labeled as "difficult" has no bearing on her credibility except in the eyes of the ignorant.
Right but all the claims about Deen being too rough during scenes do correlate with him being a rapist. Another nice double standard there. I guess based on that there are a LOT of male performers who are rapists in this business. Stoya's credibility with her rape claims so far: -two vague twitter posts. -leaves all social media for weeks right afterwards. -Has since the beginning and continues to have scenes of James Deen on her own website, including ones that have a 'rapey theme'. -Turns out she was let go by a company for being too difficult to work with, which could mean a lot of things. I think I will give the same credence to this as people do for the Stoya tweets even though both are vague. -Still the only one who claims rape. At this point I'm more willing to believe all the other women over Stoya.
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06
Posted - Dec 2 2015 : 12:25AM
Scenes where Deen was performing as directed with the consent of his costars have no bearing on the discussion. I think we agree on that. But if you think that other allegations of sexual assault and other sexualized violence have no correlation to rape simply because the wording is different I think you're being intentionally obtuse. It's like claiming a history of theft has no correlation to someone being accused of a robbery. no they aren't the exact same thing, but the differences are trivial in the context of what we're talking about.Again those things have nothing to do with her credibility.
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Maxxx Stirner Deactivated User
319 Posts 11/14
Posted - Dec 2 2015 : 1:26AM
The irony is that this guy played Glenn Quagmire in the Family Guy porn parody. Quagmire probably respects more boundaries then Deen does. It's now 5 and counting.
You're free to have an opinion. My opinion is that people shouldn't jump to conclusions and take sides with facts & any proof. You're free to agree or disagree. In other words, it's up to you if you want to take sides, but I'm just saying that I don't agree with someone doing that. How is Stoya more credible than James Deen? Do you know both of them personally? Have you met or got to know either of them? Edited by - matchmaker on 12/2/2015 1:57:33 AM
The adult industry needs to change-it needs a point person for any complaints & needs to make it abundantly clear to all performers male & female the standards of behaviour required to work for them & for every person on set their obligation to stop any harm coming to performers, extras & other staff members & the immediate halt in shooting & immediate reporting of any such incidents to the company owner or highest ranked person available. I find it totally incredible that Ashley Fires who had been around porn for a decade or so had no idea who to turn to for help at Kink. It seems like the porn business just runs by an agent telling the performer to turn up & they have no idea how to report any issues & the people working on set seem to feel powerless to stop performers behaving badly & it seems to have just been accepted.
And all this conversation in 8 pages leads where?If Stoya says true if not if if if.You can't judge if you are not there to see exactly what happened.So you can tell anything you want but you will never know what happened.Only Stoya James and the close people know.And it not your besiness.
^ By that 'logic' you can't say anything about any news at all Seeing how you are hardly ever there to "see things for yourself". It is scary that even after so many girls come forward some of you are still willing to jump to his defense. Edited by - dutchgangbangboys on 12/2/2015 3:23:54 AM
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pervybrit50 Deactivated User
473 Posts 11/13
Posted - Dec 2 2015 : 3:11AM
It is a discussion-which is what these forums are for. The multiple performers are now telling their stories & it paints a sad picture of him & the industry.
Okay, so she WILLINGLY had sex with him, then when he didn't stop accused him of rape? I refuse to believe all these women have been "raped" by him, and are more than likely just chancers/opportunists. However, saying that it's guys like him in porn that influence young guys' sex lives, and not in a positive way. I do wonder how many young women (not adult workers) have experienced hard/very rough sex, maybe verging on rape due to what their bfs have seen in James Deen scenes and are scared to say anything. He isn't the only guy who performs like that either, you have Rocco Siffredi, Nacho Vidal and a few other guys, such as a couple of the British guys and some guys who work for "TeamSkeet" and "Bangbros." It wouldn't surprise me how many guys in the industry are fucked in the head and think about raping the women they're working with, or when outside of work; porn would do that to you i am sure. Edited by - whitewalker on 12/2/2015 3:24:20 AM
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pervybrit50 Deactivated User
473 Posts 11/13
Posted - Dec 2 2015 : 3:24AM
Yeah sure-like Ashley Fires who runs her own porn empire which was recentlyfeatured on Playboy TV & has been in the business for 12 years needs to make things up for attention. Tori Lux & Amber Rayne who are out of the business needs to make it up. Why former male porn performer Voodoo says Deen was a creep & he got out because he hated the way some male talent, agents & directors etc were behaving. How many women need to come forward before you believe them then? 30, 100? 300?
So if you give up during a boxing match but your oponent keeps punching you anyway you would think it normal? Or if you dentist pulls all your teeth instead of the one he is supposed to? Or that cassiere just takes your 50 and doesn't give you the 48 back when you buy a can of coke? All of that is okay then? Not stopping when she says no is rape. Period. Edited by - dutchgangbangboys on 12/2/2015 3:30:00 AM
I find it hard to have too much sympathy for them (although i do have sympathy, just not a lot) because they could have said something a lot sooner, especially if they knew how he was many years ago. If true, they have basically allowed him a free pass to "rape" many women in and out of the industry due to keeping quiet for such a long time. I have seen his scenes and sometimes he does come across forceful, but no more than most other guys in the industry, and the women never ever behaved as if they didn't enjoy it. He was dating Stoya (right?) so maybe he took a few more liberties than if they were not in a relationship, and therefore believed he could get away with it as she loved him. I am not ready to accept he is a rapist yet, but it's certainly a darn shame these women are all coming out now, whereas they could have saved the pain of many other women by admitting this sooner. Also, let's not forget how vindictive, especially women, can be if something happens they're not happy with. We don't know what he may have said or done (not including the accusations of rape) to these women, so maybe they're getting their own back by being vindictive with these accusations. Edited by - whitewalker on 12/2/2015 3:34:31 AM
Definition of rape: "The crime, typically committed by a man, of forcing another person to have sexual intercourse with the offender against their will" I'm not saying it's acceptable, but lets not forget how a couple of these women accusing him have dated him, knowing his personality type and the type of sex he enjoys, but still willingly had sex with him. Rape is very serious accusation to make, but the true definition of rape is disallowing someone the opportunity of sex willingly with said person.
Kayden Kross posted an article on her site and made it all about her instead of Stoya. She also plugged her site Trenchcoat several times in the article as this is getting mainstream coverage.. Ever see movies where you hate all the characters ? If the rape did happen, they are definitely looking to cash on it/cashing out on it.. Stoya's pinned tweet, the one that is at the top, the one people immediately see when they visit her page isThe one before that was (after she made rape accusations)They got a lot of promotion for Trenchcoat because of the pins and they definitely are promoting it now..
Edited by - sparrow55 on 12/2/2015 5:57:58 AM
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manish88 Deactivated User
55 Posts 5/13
Posted - Dec 2 2015 : 6:04AM
^ I believe there is a reason why cops dont take rape complaints of sex workers and pornstars seriously. Cops are not idiots, they are smart. Smarter than most of us idiots.
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jeffandersonn Deactivated User
1605 Posts 3/13
Posted - Dec 2 2015 : 6:09AM
i see a lot of strategy from Stoya and Kayden. at this point i'm start to thinking that everything was planned.
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pervybrit50 Deactivated User
473 Posts 11/13
Posted - Dec 2 2015 : 6:36AM
You have to be deluded as hell to believe all these women are making this up. If it was just Stoya, her business partner & Joanna Angle then yeah it would be suspicious due to the long term relationships both were in with him, but when you have multiple other current & retired actresses, an adult writer & a former male porn star all saying stuff the conspiracy theory doesn't hold water.
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pervybrit50 Deactivated User
473 Posts 11/13
Posted - Dec 2 2015 : 6:38AM
Except they do-times have moved on & police forces have gotten a lot better at investigating every allegation. The days of being in the sex industry meaning it doesn't matter if you get sexually assaulted, raped, beaten up or murdered are long gone thankfully.
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06
Posted - Dec 2 2015 : 6:39AM
What you're suggesting (wait for a trial and let the justice system run its course) sounds great on the surface, but what that really means in this particular instance is instead of believing him or her based on my own observations in a he said/she said case, I'm supposed to believe him or her based on someone else's observations in a he said/she said case. Which is pretty insane when you think about it. This isn't a CSI episode where a bunch of forensic evidence will prove the case one way or another. This case is and will always be a matter of simply taking one person's word over another. Not knowing Deen or Stoya, I wouldn't have an opinion on the matter if it was just the one accusation. However as more and more accusations come out in my opinion that tips the scales in favor of Stoya.
James Deen @ AnalVids
Posted - Dec 1 2015 : 7:09PM
