I could not agree more. If a bunch of people who have worked with him claim that he is an asshole then I find no reason not to believe them.I'm just interested in how people think and why they believe what they believe. Thanks for responding.
I have to say that in the pictures she does not seem to enjoy it but looking at the faces of Deen, Princess Donna and the other guy it doesn't seem the scene of a rape. Obviously, this is just my impression looking at few pictures.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Dec 7 2015 : 9:31PM
Personally, I find that excerpt from Casey's blog post even more alarming than the allegations against Deen.
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sparrow55 Deactivated User
82 Posts 11/15
Posted - Dec 7 2015 : 10:52PM
The point is, a person's credibility depends on how she acted in previous such scenarios. She is serving her own agenda here. Which is bash someone she hates in the industry. If you look at her actual allegation, which wasn't rapeShe has nothing substantial. She spit on his face and her narration is horribly one sided. She is just making up stuff and joined the bandwagon. She is in the same category as Farrah Abraham. Edited by - sparrow55 on 12/7/2015 11:09:30 PM
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sparrow55 Deactivated User
82 Posts 11/15
Posted - Dec 7 2015 : 11:07PM
She added an edit to the bottom of the paragraph...
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Dec 7 2015 : 11:09PM
I'm still not sure how Bonnie's comments about Christy Mack imply that she's lying for fame in regards to James Deen. Farrah has lied before. Bonnie didn't lie about Christy, she gave her opinion.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Dec 7 2015 : 11:11PM
I know, and it doesn't make her claim any less alarming.
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sparrow55 Deactivated User
82 Posts 11/15
Posted - Dec 8 2015 : 12:14AM
I think it does... When sex is actual work,I think it makes a difference. Cathy Young's article http://observer.com/2015/12/premature-ruination-james-deen-deserves-his-day-in-court/
What's really bothering me is how quickly performers like Julia Ann are showing their true colors. I think Casey Calvert's blog post was a lot of victim-blaming BS but at least she had the courage to come right out and say that she was siding with Deen on this. Julia trotted out the "let's everyone not rush to judgement until all the facts come out", but has very quickly descended into re-tweeting pro-Deen articles and sentiments. While at the same time overtly implying that the real tragedy here is that people are piling on. It's amazing how many of the same performers who fancy themselves as social welfare advocates are quick to toss it out the window once it starts to impact people they personally like. What's most bizarre to me is that with the mounting number of allegations, the new equivocation is that he's simply "an asshole, who probably has boundary issues". That's probably the least amusing attempt I've seen at rationalizing pretty grotesque behavior. And won't even get started on Quasar's "it's all political correctness' fault" idiotic line of reasoning..
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Dec 8 2015 : 1:49AM
^You do realize that we're still talking about a he said/she said situation, right? That there is more than one she in that equation hasn't changed that. I lean toward Stoya's allegations being true, but I find the whole "How dare anyone not believe her?!" routine bizarre.
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klies Deactivated User
1733 Posts 5/09
Posted - Dec 8 2015 : 2:02AM
^^ What if the real victim here is James Deen? I think it is time to start calling this "no victim-blaming" thing as "no woman-blaming", because that is what it really is. I wonder if we will ever come back to our senses on this matter and realize how "no victim-blaming" thing is pure BS.
In a situation where you have this many people coming forward with these kinds of allegations it's extraordinarily rare that it is simply a bunch of hoaxes. Even Cathy Young (who goes out of her way to scrutinize/criticize high profile rape cases) has said as much in her article that at this point the chances of all of these accusations being untrue is almost non-existent. Bear in mind this was an article that was actually a quasi-defense of Deen. The statistics has shown time and again that instances of rape are dramatically under-reported due to a multitude of factors (a major one being the intimate nature of the accusation which more often than not creates a "he said-she said" kind of scenario). If people want to die on the hill of "James Deen is a victim being squashed under a deluge of false accusations", they are more than welcome to do so. But attempting to guise it as "I'm just being a passive observer with no opinion on who's being truthful" is highly disingenuous.
Good lord, the history of how this country has appoached sexual assault has until recent history been one long train of situations in which the deck is stacked dramatically against those who are victims of rape. If this "the accused is the real victim here" construct you clearly believe in was true, why would we see such a horrid amount of under-reported rape cases? If I were to accept the premise that your side has put forth, there would be a tidal wave of rape allegations every day with a mountain of arrests and convictions to go with it. Neither of those is even within driving range of being the case. Amazing how that now we have socially reached a point where we're willing to start taking sexual assault seriously, there are those who interpret that as some pernicious conspiracy against men to send them to the slammer
#SDNY he's all yours. -- Michael Steele 5110 Posts 3/03
Posted - Dec 8 2015 : 2:23AM
As opposed to dusting off an alt account you've only used a dozen times in five and a half years to call people you disagree with liars. Nothing highly disingenuous about that
^I agree with you about Julia Ann hiding what side she is truly on by pretending to be neutral. The same goes for Nica Noelle, Mercedes Carrera, and others. At least people who believe Stoya are willing to say so. There is just something so off-putting and insidious about those who pretend that they are not taking sides.
*yawn* couple things 1.) I've made it abundantly clear that I think the accusations are true. If I were to say "I'm a neutral observer, I don't know who's right" as a preface to my argument, you might have a point. Try again please 2.) I'm not entirely certain what this account is an "alternate" of, seeing as I only have the one. I'll thank you for taking your inane suggestions elsewhere
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klies Deactivated User
1733 Posts 5/09
Posted - Dec 8 2015 : 2:32AM
...because no victim blaming. For majority of people, Stoya is the victim here, anything you say will be called victim blaming and no one wants to be that person in the modern USA. In case of sex crimes it is so much easier to take side of the woman but no one wants to stand by the side of men, even if they are innocent. Edited by - klies on 12/8/2015 2:34:52 AM
First of all, we already know all of the allegations aren't false. We know Amber Rayne's is true because we technically knew about it when that movie got released (we just didn't know the exact details, I believe). Second of all, the allegations have differing levels of severity, from he's an asshole (Bonnie Rotten, Lily Labeau) to he likes to beat women up (Tori Lux) to he doesn't respect boundaries (Nicki Blue, Kora Peters) to he's a full blown rapist (Stoya, Ashley Fires). It's possible to believe the lower allegations and still not believe the more severe ones. Basically, the fact that there are multiple allegations does mean that it's unlikely that all of them are false, but it doesn't make it more likely that all of them are true. And for the record, I think it's much, much more likely that Stoya is telling the truth than lying, irregardless of all the other stories that have come out.
Again, the facts do not comport with your reading of the situation: https://rainn.org/get-information/statistics/reporting-rates http://www.ndaa.org/pdf/the_voice_vol_3_no_1_2009.pdf Even if I were to use the most generous of statistics which overinflate the perentage of false rape accusations, it begs the question: if believing the victim is the natural reaction of the criminal justice system, why do we have such under-reported rape numbers? Your premise suggests that any woman walking off the street could scream "rape!" and the accused would be in prison in no time. Clearly this not the case, so you need to re-examine your premise
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klies Deactivated User
1733 Posts 5/09
Posted - Dec 8 2015 : 3:08AM
the reason is that laws were written in such a way to minimize any potential abuse. Take my country for example (again in no mood to discuss my country rape laws...just giving you an example......), they amended rape laws couple of years back and the false rape percentage which used to stay under 10% jumped to 50+% in the last 2-3 years. If "no victim blaming" was really a thing other than some feminist BS then there would be no need of courts in case of rape cases. If woman says she was raped then she was raped. The End. But this "no victim blaming" BS is only for common man, not for courts. They need evidence and proofs to convict someone. They are not sending someone to jail just because a woman accused someone of rape. woman are human too. They lie as much as man. Again, I will repeat - the reason false rape % is not that high in your country is because rape laws were written in such a way to minimize any abuse by anyone. They are not perfect but they are best we can have. So saying that "only small percentage of reported rapes are false means women rarely lie when it comes to sex crimes" is BS which feminists feed us regularly. *dont want to talk about under-reported rape cases..only false percentage... Edited by - klies on 12/8/2015 3:09:40 AM
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sparrow55 Deactivated User
82 Posts 11/15
Posted - Dec 8 2015 : 3:12AM
This is the most farcical argument I see in these kind of scenarios. When you are crying out rape on twitter, you are not in anyway speaking for the 98 rapes that went unpunished. You are talking about your own individual situation. Using statistics to justify this behavior only proves that you have no idea how this data is utilized and projected. Give me the same set of raw data, I am pretty sure I can give you different interpretation of data. Also the statistics were from 2008-2012. I think the world has changed a lot with regards to feminism and social media in the last few years.
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Maxxx Stirner Deactivated User
319 Posts 11/14
Posted - Dec 8 2015 : 4:16AM
The one thing I will say about this whole sorry affair is that this shows that sexual symmetry is needed between men and women. The male female dynamic that exists in the straight porn world is essentially a sort of harem model where only a few select men make it in and a disproportionate amount of them are producers compared to women. The kind of boy/girl sex that I would like to see is what you can see on corbinfisher. Yes, I'm talking about the men who so men as well. I think a move toward this sort of symmetry might go along way in correcting some of the problems that are being uncovered in this whole story in terms of what women have to put up with. For me the essence of boy/girl sex should be a co good looking 18 year old pairing who meet for their first shoot on some teen casting site. Men should be able to explore their sexuality as much as women can. When you create this crude heteronormative male sexual archetype who females must work with then don't be surprised if you run into some James Deens along the way. Bring on fully binormative porn already.
Oh Boo Hoo, if you believe he's innocent then say so, and instead of worrying about what people call you just focus on the facts and information available. And there are plenty of people who take the man's side, it's just hard to take them seriously when they start whining and complaining about Feminism instead of putting forth a compelling argument.
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klies Deactivated User
1733 Posts 5/09
Posted - Dec 8 2015 : 5:29AM
^ I gave you the reason why most people don't side with men in case of sex crimes and you called it "whining and complaining about Feminism". So do tell me why you think that in case of a he said/she said situation, majority of people are on woman's side and only a few, sometimes none, on man's side? I personally have no problem expressing my honest opinions online, where I am anonymous, but I may not be able to do the same IRL for the same reason I mentioned.
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pervybrit50 Deactivated User
473 Posts 11/13
Posted - Dec 8 2015 : 7:45AM
Not sure how much of this is true-a 21 year old virgin doing webcam porn living at Kink HQ? Sorry just doesn't add up-don't most webcam models work for MyFreecams, I'mLive etc? Why would you sign up as a newcomer to camming to a BDSM porn website's camgirls section & go live where they film all the hardcore S&M content? But yeah Donna is a joke-she has come out to support victims but she was running that site, directing most of the scenes & it seems ignoring anybody who said anything negative about Deen.
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pervybrit50 Deactivated User
473 Posts 11/13
Posted - Dec 8 2015 : 7:49AM
I lost any respect for Rotten after her rant at Mack-fine they didn't get on but it is another woman being beaten & raped & nearly murdered. Rotten herself made accusations against Max Hardcore saying he got her wasted before taking advantage of her for their scene early in her career-she wouldn't have liked it if people called her a liar rather than the support she got.
It's been said in this thread that J.D being an asshole is believable because a bunch of people who have worked with him have all come forward with their stories. Not sure why this same reasoning does not apply to the many sexual assault stories that have been provided. You guys do realize that sex can begin as consensual and then become sexual assault the moment someone says "stop" or gives their agreed upon safe-word? "Sexual assault is any type of sexual contact or behavior that occurs without the explicit consent of the recipient. Falling under the definition of sexual assault are sexual activities as forced sexual intercourse, forcible sodomy, child molestation, incest, fondling, and attempted rape"
Edited by - Love on 12/8/2015 7:55:08 AM
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lefaf Deactivated User
5776 Posts 10/14
Posted - Dec 8 2015 : 8:39AM
he speaks: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/12/08/james-deen-breaks-his-silence-i-am-completely-baffled.html
^^Any response from him at any point in time wouldn't fit within your feminist rhetoric because he says he's innocent(and I believe him). Of course you'd love for him not to use his intelligence by talking with his lawyer first. It is time for the detectives to start checking out footage of these alleged incident since James says that they're out there. I didn't know slimy journalists are offering good money for anyone who comes forward with 'accusations' that's pretty damning and believable considering there's tons of people in the industry who love both attention and easy money. And he just confirmed what the anonymous story said which is that Stoya is mentally unstable. It's a good interview that goes in depth and does more than just deny the accusations since JD offers proof for the detectives. This isn't over yet. Edited by - 2bollocks on 12/8/2015 9:14:34 AM
Are there any personnel on set or at least in the building to provide an actual physical stop if the girls need help? (kinda like a bouncer in a strip club). I'm not saying that the girls need bodyguards at each shoot, but some level of security seems logical to me. These girls are at an elevated risk of something happening against their will. They are very attractive women, clad in sexy attire, if any at all, with their hair and makeup professionally done so they look like a million bucks. I'm not saying they're asking for it, or its their fault if something happens so please don't flame me, but their risk is definitely elevated. Add narcotics and booze to the equation, and it could get tough for the girl real quick.
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06
Posted - Dec 8 2015 : 10:19AM
Lawyering up isn't a sign of innocence or guilt, it is a sign of intelligence. I don't think anybody has accused Deen of being stupid. That said, I don't think there was anything earth shattering in that interview. People that believed his innocence will most likely continue to do so, people that didn't probably still won't, and I doubt it persuaded anyone that was on the fence one way or another.
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Ben Mockridge Deactivated User
382 Posts 9/15
Posted - Dec 8 2015 : 10:31AM
Because Deen himself admits to being a jerk so the case there is pretty compelling. However the "sexual assault stories" are more dquestionable - we have to give due consideration to bitter girlfriends with a history of threatening false rape allegations , consensual events that occured on BDSM set that are being taken out of context , sensationalised and misrepresented , the press offering $5k for dirt on Deen etc etc.
Has Princess Donna weighed in on this issue? She has been involved in many of the scenes at Kink with Deen, including being the woman in some fake rapes scenes with Deen. Her insight might be enlightening. I have since noticed the link about Princess Donna being accused as an accomplice in the allegations by Nicki Blue. I do not belong to Kink, but has anyone checked the scenes in question? I have seen many of Kink's scenes in the past and they always included interviews before and after the scenes where they discussed boundaries and how the scene went, including if anything happened they weren't comfortable with. Some of these allegations don't jibe with the way they have done the scenes I've watched. However, some scenes go way too far for me and I don't watch those. One I did see that made me stop watching Kink was with PD where she's gang-raped by Deen and several others. It's no surprise to me that when these performers frequently engage in those kinds of scenes, they lose sight of when someone might truly be objecting, even though safe words are used. Edited by - mapofhawaii on 12/8/2015 11:37:51 AM
A bit of housekeeping/point of orderWhen you have a link to share in your post, a) Look immediately south of the text field b) locate the button marked URL, located west of Upload Image and easy of Preview c) Click on the button marked URL mentioned in b) d) In the dialog box you get from performing c), -d1) enter your link in the field immediately to the east of where it says URL -d2) enter either a description or, if you prefer, your link again in the field immediately to the east of where it says Description e) click the box titled Build Link f) in the dialog box you get from performing e), click the box titled Add To Forum Post. Going through steps a) through f) will turn the text of a link into an actual clickable link directly accessible from your post, such as: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/12/08/james-deen-breaks-his-silence-i-am-completely-baffled.html
This and this belowThere is a reason why even innocent people like Brian Banks, Keanu Reeves and Darren Wilson have taken the advice of a lawyer before saying anything in public.
A couple of things about this article. From it:I noticed that Deen does not dispute the fact that Amber still considers him a friend. This is consistent with what Amber has directly said in her tweets about still considering him her friend, about not being raped/sexually assaulted by him and feeling "conflicted" about the whole thing. Still being someone's friend and being conflicted about things are not mutually exclusive. Otherwise, you do not have a friendship. You have a toadyship.More than that, in the case of Kora Peters, (i.e., I am speaking STRICTLY about Peters and NOT about Stoya, Ashley Fires, Amber or Lily Labeau's claims/character here), her latest allegation is not the first time she has pulled this kind of stunt. Moreover, she has been linked to AHF/Whinestain . Also, Deen says the following:Given how video evidence was enough to get the DOJ involved in investigating Rahm Emmanuel and the Chicago PD, this could be a very significant factor in how this all turns out.Although we, thus far, only have Deen's word on this, I can see this happening. 5K may not get you JK Rowling, but it does tend to motivate creative storytelling. Amber Rayne was openly approached on Twitter by journalists wanting to interview her...and she turned them down.I entirely understand Deen's reaction, as in not having warm and fuzzy feelings for Kink.com after they severed ties with him. That being said, it is kind of a low-blow for him to point out their "plenty of issues," when AHF/Michael Whinestain are the ones bankrolling these attacks on Kink.com. Deen does have a right to be angry about being terminated and, contrary to Twitter conventional wisdom, does have the right to defend himself against accusations. However, siding, however inadvertedly with AHF/Whinestain who are trying to destroy the industry is not going to win him many more supporters from within the industry.
James Deen @ AEBN
Posted - Dec 7 2015 : 6:53PM
