I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - May 13 2017 : 1:03PM
^Ah, I think I see where she's coming from now. It was never about dark skin. Bella simply doesn't want to shoot IR. The whole point of her first blog is that that's okay because no one really wants to shoot IR anyway. Now Bella's giving us a new reason for not shooting IR. It too much of a "big deal." Translation: "I don't want to have sex with light skinned blacks either." I think she really does agree with what "Hans Jan" wrote on YouTube. She didn't want to be very controversial so she dressed it up a bit, but it seems that she does indeed hold the same view. Well, she has a right to her opinion. If she shoots with someone I like for a site that I'm a member of I'll probably watch it. To be honest, I'd like to see some scenes with Mike Adriano, Mick Blue and others down the line. She's definitely someone who I'll otherwise ignore though.
I can put names here Leya Falcon did say she only dates black men in real life. Misspornusa here said time and again she prefers black men A number of pornstars have black husbands or even have mixed babies Some had a career basically over IR only Also the reaction you're talking about is not the same reaction I am talking about I'm saying that if a white woman says she only dates white men will be attacked as racist If a white woman says she only dates black men nobody would say she's racist this has noting to do with the reaction you're talking about
As a producer, i completely understand girls wanting to cash in on first IRs. It's a demand for it, so it makes sense for girls to get some of that money. However the whole attraction excuse is weak. So you're going to tell me you're not attracted to someone like Isaiah Maxwell or Ricky Johnson but you're attracted to some of these much older strange looking white guys out there? Please. That's not a preference. That's being racist. Look up the scenes of some of these girls who say they don't do IR because of attraction. They must have some weird daddy/granddaddy/overweight attraction fetishes then. This girls rationalization didn't help her case at all. www.dickdrainers.com
No one would say she's racist if she dated only black men because she's dating people outside her race. What, is she racist against herself? That doesn't make sense.www.dickdrainers.com
^^ Bella's "not attracted to dark skinned black people but light skinned are fine" sentiment seemed like an attempt to make her original statement sound not as bad but looks like it made it even worse [Tweet is no longer available] Pretty strong opinions from models some of whom are industry vets reacting to Bella's case and IR in general [Tweet is no longer available] [Tweet is no longer available] [Tweet is no longer available] [Tweet is no longer available] [Tweet is no longer available]
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - May 13 2017 : 5:02PM
^I have to admit that I'm indifferent to whether she is personally racist or not. If she begins making a lot of racist statements that will turn me off from her content, but I don't expect that to happen. Anyway, I'd guess that she just threw "dark skin" out there to conceal her disgust for IR itself. That is also why she implicated the industry and pornstars who shoot IR in her statements. Rather than be as forthcoming as "Hans Jan", it looks like she's opted to give us a lot of unlikely excuses instead, and to do so while presenting herself as the only honest pornstar since none of the others want to admit their real reasons for shooting IR. All things considered, I doubt that Bella would have gotten all of this industry criticism if she had just said "I'm not shooting IR" and left it at that. IR watchdogs (who aren't in the industry and probably don't even purchase porn) would come after her because that's what they do, but that would have been nothing compared to what's happened instead. Edited by - misspornUSA on 5/13/2017 5:04:12 PM
my opinion, as a black man. she really wanted to say she doesn't find blacks attractive, but obviously in today's political climate that wouldn't go over well. so she substituted black for "dark skin". Fine. I don't care. I personally think there's some level of sub conscious racism to say you can't find anyone from an entire race attractive but that's beside the point. my issue is her implying the only reason any other white pornstars have to do ir is when they are "used up" or need money. could be true or false. I honestly don't know. I do know that more and more white girls are doing ir sooner and yeah part of that is girls nowadays wanna get in, get their money and get out. this used to be true that a lot of pornstars would save ir for literally the twilight of their porn career but that's not as true now. but when she presumes to speak for all white girls(or non blacks) in porn, well she has no proof or logic to that statement. maybe, perhaps a lot of the girls doing ir are "color blind" and don't care about their partners skin tone. she obviously cares(she doesn't like blacks and that's fine) but how does she presume to speak for anybody other than herself? another thing is for certain, many pornstars doing ir today are far from "used up". maybe, they really do need the money but the "save ir for when you're washed up" idea is moronic these days.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - May 13 2017 : 6:21PM
Not only that, but blacks are so obviously unattractive to her and IR porn so base that white women in porn would never shoot with blacks as a regular part of their porn career.
^ It seems like most of it is over, except for a little hard feelings between her and Lilly Ford. Which brings me to this part I found funny: You know how Bella said that her agent supported her in what she said? Lilly and Bella are both with the same agency (LA Direct).
light skinned and dark skinned black guys are like 2 diffrent races in terms of attraction. I know girls who love light skinned black guys but think dark skinned black guys are gross. A lot of them do. That's the reason i think some don't like light skinned performers in their IR scenes. I know she doesn't shoot with either and that goes for all IR dodgers in porn. It doesn't matter if you are light or dark, but i'm pointing out it does in real life. Really dark skinned guys can really turn a lot of girls off. Light skin is very as better looking in real life. If all black guys looked like "stallion" i do think more girls would be into IR. Light skin is more universal appealing in real life. I bet Bella would say he was attractive if she saw him since he is a sexy lightskin guy.
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Eco195 Deactivated User
126 Posts 2/12
Posted - May 14 2017 : 3:10AM
The entire light/dark skin conversation is highly offensive for multiple reasons, but I was checking and awhile back she actually did a scene with Alex Jones who's part black. Now my guess is she didn't think he was even part Black because he's light skinned, but he is. Edited by - Eco195 on 5/14/2017 3:11:46 AM
Racism means by definition prejudice toward a race and therefore toward anybody of that race. If someone only dates black men is de facto discriminating against anybody else who is not black I even may add more , some black stars have been called racist here on ADT because they only work with white men even though according to you that cannot be the case because it's outside their race.
Who the fuck cares if she's attractive to dark skin Blacks or not,there's plenty of hotter White chics than Bella doing Black guys already.The porn industry not going to nd cause Bella not doing Black guys.
Prejudice towards a race you're part of? So all these white women who date black men are prejudiced against themselves and their families? BULLSHIT. Also youre forgetting that the vast majority of these white women who date black men exclusively in the industry DO LESBIAN SCENES WITH WHITE WOMEN. So there goes that. And people on ADT say a lot of shit. That doesn't mean that it's correct.www.dickdrainers.com
With this you can't win. If you do IR from the beginning, not charging extra you are "desperate", "not pretty enough for decent scenes", "just a gonzo chick", "used up", "broke" and what not and if you don't you are a racist. No matter what decision a female performer makes, she gets criticized for it. Everyone is entitled to decide what scenes they are willing to perform. I personally was uncomfortable during IR scenes sometimes because I'm not much into race play and I simply wanted to see another human being when I was performing. I looked at my male costars as men primarily and not as "the black guy", "the BBC" or whatever. I have always been attracted to a variety of people. Men and women, different body shapes and sizes, and different ethnic backgrounds. But I always felt weird fetishizing someone's skin color in a szene. It has always been a very conflicting situation for me. On the one side I wanted to work with different types of costars but on the other side I was uncomfortable with some of the IR content. I can totally understand if someone decides to resolve that conflict by deciding not to participate at all. I tried to sorta of do my best to perform a good scene while trying to be able to uphold my personal boundaries. I definitely don't want to be a role model for IR performers or whatever. It was difficult for me and given the general atmosphere in America today where a person's race is still very much linked to personal outcomes, where white privilege undeniably continues to exist, performing IR scenes is kind of a complex situation even for the performers who have always filmed them. Honestly, when I'm filming a scene where I'm the rich white wife livinging in an upper class neighborhood and "the black guy" is playing the role of a plumber or construction worker who "gets lucky" to tap that white woman, I don't know how I feel about that. It basically says that a man of color, even though we fetishize him in physical terms and empazise his good looks/physique etc, is not able to face the woman on equal terms. She would never choose him as a partner. This sometimes got way too real for me and I tried to blur the classist and racist stuff by giving my best sexual performance. I have had some amazing scenes with some very amazing performers of color, some of which I definitely would have dated if I had gotten the chance to. I also had amazing scenes with white performers that I would not have minded getting to know closer. I love equality and I never liked scenes where the woman was the male's obidient fuck toy and I also never liked being detached from my scene partner by a class or race context. Edited by - katjakassin on 5/14/2017 3:44:34 PM
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - May 14 2017 : 4:16PM
^Thanks for sharing your insight Katja, and for your contribution to the IR genre. Your work in films like Crude Oil 1 and Slayer Unleashed 3 is unforgettable.
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Luke Lake Deactivated User
878 Posts 8/10
Posted - May 14 2017 : 7:38PM
^^ Katja needs to write a book about her career and life.
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Rosco Fuji Deactivated User
On the licking stick, Mr. Magic Dick! 3309 Posts 2/09
Posted - May 14 2017 : 8:30PM
This isn't a knock on Katja, but porn star tell all books aren't that interesting nor are they fascinating. Quite the opposite actually.
^^ They're not telling you anything you don't already know, so I can see why you wouldn't find them particularly interesting.
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Rosco Fuji Deactivated User
On the licking stick, Mr. Magic Dick! 3309 Posts 2/09
Posted - May 14 2017 : 9:22PM
It's a short story in Rolling Stone, Playboy, or another adult oriented publication at best. But; considering the average porn fan thinks that because a female performer can walk and chew gum at the same time, it makes them a genius, I can see why people think it'd be a fascinating read and that the performer should be up for a Pulitzer Prize. Think about it. Katja basically summed up the whole I/R issue for her in what, half a dozen paragraphs or so? Just for good measure, assuming she left out a few parts, throw in 6 more paragraphs and that would conclude the I/R chapter clocking in at 2 pages.
^ There are, most certainly, performers out there that have lived interesting enough lives to be the subject of interesting books. I can't say anything definitively about the quality of it since I haven't read it, but Asa's first book about her career seems to have reviewed decently well, at least. I believe Ashley Blue's book was well liked as well. I will readily admit that those are probably the best examples of performer biographies out there, but I'm just saying it can and arguably has been done, so I disagree with issuing any sort of blanket statement about them like the one you just said.
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Rosco Fuji Deactivated User
On the licking stick, Mr. Magic Dick! 3309 Posts 2/09
Posted - May 14 2017 : 10:31PM
^I guess you read something different than the one I did, because the excerpts I read were Painful with a capital P.
^ If you're talking about Asa's book, I thought the excepts I read were funny and cute at worst, even if they didn't tell me anything I didn't already know in general (the most memorable one being her talk about her experiences with escorting). Different people can have different opinions. Crazy, I know.
Edited by - whatsatelephonebill on 5/14/2017 11:06:59 PM
^ It's fine. We'll eventually get back to the topic at hand, probably as soon as another performer makes some sort of public comment about IR, which should happen in the next week or so.
You also forget that white women who do IR lesbian scene but not IR BG scenes are deemed dodgers or even racist , sex with women does not appear to count and then again it's a double standard , if you refuse to date someone solely because of HIS or HER race you're selectively separating people over their race and this is prejudice. I'm fine with anybody tastes , I don't have any problem with people having a special liking , but I really can't take those who put their prejudices as regulars and put up an outrage when someone does the same toward a different direction what would you say if a white woman refuses a black man because she only dates Asians?
You know I've been trying many a times to make it clear that a "classy" IR scene with those premises are as racist as the thug scenes I suggested some time some "couple" IR scenes , for example a bride and groom in their first night , or a married couple trying to get a baby (insted of those creampie scenes with no meaning) or a couple of regular dating guys celebrating something scenes like those where the partecipants just happen to be black and white I've been taliking to the wind though
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - May 15 2017 : 11:19AM
^Rare is the mainstream porn scene that doesn't include politically incorrect stereotypes of some sort, usually about women. If we're going to call the scenes you describe "racist", then we must also agree with the anti-porn people who say that porn is sexist. Simplistically labeling porn with these "ist" adjectives invites simple minded reasoning such as the following: "Mainstream porn is sexist. Sexism is bad. Mainstream porn is bad. We should get ride of mainstream porn." Edited by - misspornUSA on 5/15/2017 11:36:23 AM
^^ There are more than a few companies that make those scenes. It's just that the companies that do that, also are generally the companies that only shoot IR once every few months, or even less, so they get ignored in the discussion. As a simple example, most of Brazzers and many of Naughty America's IR scenes (the My Wife is My Pornstar series is the primary exception) are basically the same scenarios that they shoot in their non-IR scenes. And then I can talk about the fact that adultery scenarios and power play are pretty prevalent in porn in general, not just in IR porn.
The racist part is not the scene itself but what the scene implies, by putting unfaithful set ups or even cuckold scenes they're basically saying that a white woman could fuck a black man only out of lust , but when it comes to marriage and serious matters they choose whites
True but the adultery set up is almost the only IR set up available IR married or in relationship couples in porn scenarios are basically non existent I can only remember a couple scenes : one of Aurora Snow for Wicked where sce plays a woman having morning sex with her black husband before they go to work . the other from Nica Noelle's Cheater Reatreat (1 and 2) where Darla Crane plays the wife of an unfaithful black man (Sean Michaels) e goes with him to a sexual therapy program to cure him but that's all White women considering Black men as marriage material aren't even imagined in porn , not even potential , not even just as a short crush there are tons of IR stepsons and stepdaughters out there that imply a mixed marriage, but still it's mostly just a variant of the cheating scenario
^ Again, outside of features, most porn in general, not just IR porn, does not feature married couples. You're singling IR porn out for something that all porn does. And even Blacked, for as stereotypical as they get with their scenarios, still features plots that have both performers as single and hooking up with each other on occasion (for example, their most recent scene with Alex Blake has both characters as being single, if the trailer is to be believed).
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - May 15 2017 : 4:45PM
Again, porn scenes in general imply all sorts of things that are politically incorrect, especially about women. IR is only unique in that men tend to bare the brunt of the stereotyping. In light of the mushrooming of IR content in the Blacked era, I wouldn't be inclined to make the generalizations about IR porn that you do. Every month I discover IR sites/series that I wasn't previously aware. BlackisBetter/Babes.com has had multiple scenes in which there is no cheating or the characters are in a relationship with each other. Edited by - misspornUSA on 5/15/2017 4:45:58 PM
^^ That's because it's rare to cast black men in features, period. Especially features where their race isn't part of the plot. Then again, Hollywood itself has pretty much the same problem, so let's not just drag porn over the coals over it.
We've kinda moved away from this topic, but I want to go back to it to explain something I've said before. One of the arguments people have made for charging more to shoot IR (in general, not just for firsts) is that it sells more, therefore it's okay for performers to ask for more to shoot it. And I keep saying in response that just because it tops the sales charts doesn't necessarily mean it sells that much more than non-IR porn, you have to do some sort of normalization for the studio/directors, at the very least. And I'm going to use the AVN top rentals chart for last month (April 2017) to show what I mean. Look, it's a Blacked movie at #1. But then, there's a Tushy movie at #3. And then, there's a Vixen movie at #8. Without knowing actual sales numbers, there could be a difference of 100 copies between #1 and #8, or there could be a difference of 10,000 copies. It's generally similar if you look at the differences between Jules Jordan's IR and non-IR productions as well. We don't know how much better IR sells from the top producers than non-IR, so we can't definitively say that it sells better than non-IR content, since we can clearly see that it all sells pretty well.
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Eco195 Deactivated User
126 Posts 2/12
Posted - May 15 2017 : 8:47PM
She's an adult not a child. This denial of her independence is strange. Furthermore, she's not agreeing with the dregs of 4chan and white supremacists in her youtube comments and on twitter because she's "confused." She read what they wrote and deliberately agreed with it. And she deliberately disagreed with people when she didn't like the comments they made about her being racially bigoted. So no one "drove" her to anyone. And the problem with the "natural preferences" argument is it's unknowable. People decide what to be attracted to for any number of reasons. But one of the biggest reasons is that people decide based on what everyone else around them does. That is to say culture shapes peoples choices of partners and what they are to find attractive. So if one lives in an environment where racial slurs are frequently used about a given group, or it's "understood" based on off hand remarks or expectations from ones parents that they only date people from their own group then that's what they will likely do. Now not always of course, but generally speaking that's what will happen.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - May 15 2017 : 8:52PM
We should make a distinction between sexual attraction and dating. In the West, most natives are not going to date people they don't find sexually attractive. However, they will find people sexually attractive who they won't/wouldn't date. Edited by - misspornUSA on 5/15/2017 8:54:40 PM
Hazel Heart Interview
Posted - May 13 2017 : 1:03PM
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