Reviewers Recommend Working Girls 3 (Reality Junkies) - review by Captain Jack Director: Mike Quasar Starring: Danny Mountain, Derrick Pierce, Anissa Kate, Codey Steele, Adira Allure, Elizabeth Skylar, Taylor Wild, Jay Romero. Read review
^ Hmmm, that exclusivity compensation has to be big enough to outweigh any of the potential money a performer could be raking in doing IR with other companies during the period of exclusivity. Lansky's got some deep pockets.
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Mass Facialties Deactivated User
"Facialized Vol. 7" 2021 AVN Awards Winner: Best Oral Movie 9308 Posts 9/13
Posted - Mar 14 2016 : 4:06AM
^ Huh, okay. I brought it up because I've wondered if, overall, it does IR porn any good when the big player, Blacked, excludes girls who shoot with them from doing IR for any other studio for x-number of months. (Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't Blacked's IR-exclusive deals usually 6 months?)
^ If the women stick around for long enough to shoot for other companies, then I would say that it does do the IR genre good. Deepens the talent pool, and brings more fresh new faces into it. It does mean Blacked sucks the air out of the room a bit when it comes to press/notoriety, but if you make good enough content you can overcome that. And it's not like Blacked are the originators of the trend. Generally speaking, female performers have been signing exclusivity contracts for a lot of their firsts for a while now (first b/g, first anal and first IR especially). It's just too easy for another company to come in and shoot after you and then release before you, so you have to create that buffer to give yourself time to work on the scene and fit it into your release schedule.
pornography wasn't sex but fantasies of an impossibly hospitable world 12377 Posts 9/07
Posted - Mar 14 2016 : 10:39AM
Isis did IR scenes previous to her relationship with a black male performer. Once they were together she did IR scenes with him exclusively. His name escapes me but he was a reasonably well known performer who I saw in scenes long before hooking up with Isis so he wasn't a suitcase pimp or anything like that either.
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Zy28 Deactivated User
251 Posts 2/12
Posted - Mar 14 2016 : 3:17PM
Pretty sure that was Isis' decision not her husbands. When asked at the time why she avoided doing such scenes she gave contradictory and changing explanations for her not working with Black male talent. The bottom line is she didn't want to do them. And about Blacked yeah I believe they have a 6 month contract for their girls. But Lansky would have to pay the girls an awful lot for them to hold off from doing such scenes for that long. Possibly $4000 or $5000. Which would be ridiculous. Edited by - Zy28 on 3/14/2016 3:17:42 PM
I don't see what's so hard to believe. I think it's safe to assume that a large segment of guys with pornstar girlfriends would rather they didn't do porn to begin with but go along with it because they support their girl's right to do so or just go along with it to keep the peace. If they know their girl is attracted to a certain race or type of guy I could understand not wanting them to have sex with that type of guy. The thinking is that it's only sex...and it is only sex if it's with a guy she has no attraction to but they may feel it's something else or the chance for something else if it's sex with guys she's attracted to. Some people have insecurities and that even includes pornstars. There's an ex male pornstar named Ace who has a YOUTUBE channel and talked about how was living with a female pornstar and told a story about a time he came home and was talking about his day on the set (like he often did). One time he made the mistake of calling his co-star by her real name and his girl freaked out. I guess when he called her by her real name his girl thought that crossed the line she saw that as more intimate and was bothered by it. Although logically it shouldn't have made a difference. I think it was Dyanna Lauren that was asked who her fav male performers to work and she said she wouldn't answer because in the past when she did that one of the male performer's wife heard about it and wouldn't her husband work with her again. Shy Love said it's okay with her husband that she have sex with whoever she wants but there has to be a camera filming because as long she's shooting it's work but if she isn't filming it's cheating. Shy said if she likes a guy and wants to bang him she just films it so she's not cheating. Spyder Jones hooked up with Lupe Fuentes and even though she'd been doing porn before she met him with plenty of other guys when they became a couple he was the only guy he'd let her sex with even to the point he'd try to shoot scenes without showing his face because he knew fans didn't like that she was always shooting with him. There are girls who don't want to have an orgasm on set because they're saving that for their guy. There was a story posted here years ago about an actual racist couple who the husband would only let his wife do black guys because he knew she didn't like blacks and he'd never have to worry about her falling for the guys she worked with. Mary Carey tells the story about how her boyfriend would keep talking her into going back to porn even though she didn't want to and she'd finally give in and book some shoots. Her guy would be okay with everything until a few days before the shoot then he'd suddenly get an attitude and start calling her a whore or whatever and give her grief about doing scenes even though he was the one who talked her into it. Porn is probably filled with weird stories like that but it's not the type of thing that gets talked about much. Porn people have their hang-ups and insecurities too but different things and senarios bring them out.
^ I'm curious about that story of the racist couple. Does that thread/post still exist? I've never heard of a husband/boyfriend only letting his wife/girlfriend shoot scenes with black guys, and especially for that reason. I'd be interested to know if there are any other (allegedly) documented cases like that one because the vast majority seem to be the other way around.
^ That's the only story that I didn't hear directly from the performers. That's a story I read here years ago. I honestly don't remember who posted it or what thread it was in. Probably one of the many IR threads that got locked over the years here. I probably shouldn't have included that as an example because it's something I didn't hear from the stars themselves.
FYI. Riley Reid blogged today about IR and pay at her site. The title of the article is "Let's talk about some bullshit." See http://www.reidmylips.com
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Mar 20 2016 : 10:21PM
My first reaction is in the form of a question: If her first IR was expected to be more profitable than an average b/g scene, why shouldn't she have asked for more money? I hope that she explores that question in another post at some point.
^^ I'd argue that all Blacked is doing is moving up the timeline of that offer, and not fundamentally changing how the whole situation works. In other words, where as before you might have to wait a year or two before someone made that offer before, now that offer is coming within your first 6 months. You can decide to hold out longer to see if that offer will get any larger, but there's no guarantee that that happens, and offering a performer more money than they've ever been paid for a scene that quickly can be pretty tempting.
Edited by - whatsatelephonebill on 3/20/2016 10:27:55 PM
I think she did answer that question, by saying "just because we charge more for something, it doesn't mean that we should" (or whatever the exact words were, I've closed the page now) And also "we shouldn't look at IR sex as a 'business outlook' we should look at it as something that we want to do". There are all sorts of scenes that are more profitable than others, but girls don't charge more for each and every one of them. Anal and DP cost more, but there's what I hope is a pretty obvious physical difference in those scenes to justify the extra cost. But other things? Role-playing might earn more than basic gonzo, but only if it's for the right studio. Swallowing may earn more than facials, but only if the swallowing is done right. A teen wearing a schoolgirl outfit might make the studio earn more than if they put her in stereotypical porn/stripper clothes. But the girls don't charge more based on the outfit. I think that if we're going to talk about profitability, then we'd better be consistent and not just single out IR (different from first anal, which is actually asking something more difficult of a female talent - to take a porn-size dick up the butt for the first time), otherwise it's yet another red herring argument for why porn girls wait for their first IR scene, or wind up not doing IR at all ("I never found a studio that wanted to give me a showcase for my first IR scene").
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Mar 21 2016 : 1:26AM
I can't say that either of those quotes strike me as answers. Yes, she mentions that she looked at it as just business at first and shouldn't have done so, but that doesn't directly explain why she should have received a regular b/g rate while Jules Jordan likely expected to make more money than he would have from a regular b/g.Because producers aren't willing to pay pornstars more for those kinds of scenes, pornstars shouldn't charge more for first IR, which producers are willing to pay them more for? Schoolgirl porn might be especially popular, but it's not event porn like "first IR."Are you suggesting that first anal rates are only based on the physical demands of the act itself, and have nothing to do with first anal being event porn?A red herring? Veronica Vain wrote last year: "Looking forward to an IR, but I'm only going to do it if it's a feature/showcase type deal." Edited by - misspornUSA on 3/21/2016 1:37:03 AM
^ OK I can't possibly respond to everything (plus it's way past my bedtime) but yeah that kind of thing with Ms. V.V. is exactly what I'm talking about. It's a convenient excuse to give in order to never do IR. It's not necessarily the truth. If someone offers enough cash, then yeah maybe she'll do it. I don't want to put her in particular on the spot, I mean lots of people say that kind of thing, and some of them end up doing IR and some don't. I just think that you never hear of girls saying "I won't swallow unless someone gives me a showcase" and it's because we treat IR differently than swallowing, even though there are plenty of fervent fans of swallowing, just as there are fervent fans of IR. So, why? Why do we treat it differently? Is it just a question of orders of magnitude? There are twice/three times/ten times as many people wanting to see her do IR vs swallowing, and that alone is why it's a bigger deal? Or is there something else going on here?
^ For as true as that statement may or may not be, it's always going to be in the best interest of someone who shoots IR porn to tell women to start shooting IR porn. In other words, he's biased.
Guys you should remember that any director claiming to be asked more money is suspicious to say the least, of course he would push on this , he would SAVE money and earn even more than what he would earn by filming a star in demand especially for her first. It is a way to get more money at the expenses of the girl, If a scene is worth more shouldn't the girl get more? Or do you think the only one entitled to get all the advantages from the worthiness of a scene should be the director/producer? Of course leaving all the backlash and shit on the girl in the process. It is not just a black man they fuck it is a scene worth more than the usual, at least if they work with prime companies , minor sites won't pay that much, and their scenes are worthy this much either
killbillvol69 expertly addressed that: >>I think that if we're going to talk about profitability, then we'd better be consistent and not just single out IR (different from first anal, which is actually asking something more difficult of a female talent - to take a porn-size dick up the butt for the first time), otherwise it's yet another red herring argument for why porn girls wait for their first IR scene, or wind up not doing IR at all<<
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Mar 21 2016 : 10:51AM
I too would not assume that every pornstar who uses that excuse is telling the truth. However, this goes back to the Kevin Moore quote that I opened this thread with. Was he just covering for pornstars when he wrote that "There is now currently a financial incentive to wait and shoot IR for a bigger pay day or to negotiate a showcase feature based around the female performer"?Is "first swallow" a thing?
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Mar 21 2016 : 11:24AM
^I don't tend to get "first [insert act]" fever either, but it's not my impression that consumers in general think similarly to us. While the industry came up with the concept, it's consumers who are driving it.
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DiamondJackman Deactivated User
Straight From My Brown Balls, Using Good Pussy 501 Posts 10/15
Posted - Mar 21 2016 : 11:47AM
The million dollar question is, why IR? By its very nature, charging more to shoot a scene with a black and not a non-black guy is suspicious. Riley Reid said that these *****es don't even have an excuse, "just cause I can".
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Mar 21 2016 : 6:06PM
^^^A lot of things about porn are offensive to a lot of people. As for racism, is it racist that a higher value is placed on "first IR" than on a regular b/g scene? Producers are willing to pay more for first IR because first IR is worth more to them. Is it racist that it's worth more?
^it depends on perspective. Sure they could pay more because it's worth more or it could be bribery because otherwise some/most of them wouldn't do it. I say instead of bribing dodgers and new girls they make more offers to girls that already do it. I'm ok with them getting more than the standard rate. Edited by - Chessmaster on 3/21/2016 6:39:13 PM
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Mar 21 2016 : 6:41PM
^^^Except that even in cases of bribery producers wouldn't bother paying more if they didn't believe that first IR was worth it. Why would they pay more for a scene that they expect to do the same business as any other b/g? Just 'cause?
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Mar 22 2016 : 12:10PM
Earlier in the thread we discussed an episode of Lexington Steele's radio show, portions of which are relevant here. The episode can be found on YouTube under the title "LA Talk Radio: Lexington Steele Live 7-27-15." IR is discussed beginning at around 16:30, and brought up again 43 minutes in. Now, at about 19:04 Lex says something like "The talent really is looking at it like hey, it's not only a business for you producer or director (like myself) but for me as well." That's worth emphasizing. The producer expects to make more money than usual on a "first IR", so why shouldn't a pornstar get more money than usual for shooting that scene?
^Everyone profits more except the male performer. The male performer doesn't make more money doing IR. His rate remains the same. Rico Strong complained about that in a recent interview.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Mar 22 2016 : 2:34PM
^Placing this in the context of Riley Reid's post, it would indeed be problematic in my view if someone like Mandingo - who was clearly part of the sell - was unable to negotiate a higher rate than what he'd usually get.
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DiamondJackman Deactivated User
Straight From My Brown Balls, Using Good Pussy 501 Posts 10/15
Posted - Mar 22 2016 : 3:16PM
^He and Lex both retain higher than normal rates. That's the reason Mandingo doesn't shoot for Jules no more. He wanted to direct and Jules was like nope. Edited by - Diamondjackman on 3/22/2016 5:24:13 PM
I don't think it's racist , they're not exploiting any black guy here, quite the contrary they would exploit the girl by refusing her the money she's worth. Also we're talking about her first not every scene. it's simple the producer gets more money for her scene , he's entitled to do so but the woman is not , the producer will earn say 50% more than the usual for a BG regular scene and this even paying the girl more the her usual wage , but you want him to pay the girl the usual so that he, the producer could earn even more than his already higher earnings. so I ask again why should she earn less than what she could? and the producers should gain more at her espenses?
Because people buy memberships to see the girl not the man, you can change any talent with another one yet the scene is still worth the same with very few exceptions an Alexis Texas first would be exactly of the same value whether the talent is Prince, Rob Piper or Flash , so why pay more any of them? they could be replaced easily without losing any money. it's just bargaining power , few male talents had that I'm pretty sure for example that Mandingo may have more power than most of the white talents out there possibly more than them all
Working Girls 3 (Reality Junkies) - review by Captain Jack
Posted - Mar 14 2016 : 4:00AM
