I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06
Posted - Jun 6 2016 : 9:48PM
^^ Not familiar with Ali's views on mixing races, but if your description is accurate, then I've lost a lot of respect for the man. You can split hair all you want about what technically qualifies as racism. By your strict definition of racism (that one race must be superior to another) the "separate but equal" Jim Crow segregation of the 1800 and 1900's was perfectly okay. I'm of the opinion that segregation in any form is anachronistic in today's society and is at best inappropriate, and at worst helping those with genuinely hateful feelings towards other races to justify their beliefs. Oh, and by the way, pretty cheap ploy to hide behind the beliefs of a legend that died a few days ago. It's a cheap emotional tactic that has no place in a logical discussion. Edited by - murdock on 6/6/2016 9:51:44 PM
Now that's surprising, I have personally argued about this years ago on this very board , to me any IR scene should be tagged as such whatever the races involved. I've bee eaten alive, can you guess who did this? The IR fans, most of which claimed to be black, not only this they also claimed that IR is only Black Male , White Female , the other way around is not , and so wouldn't be Black Male Asian Female , they even used the IAFD labels to prove that . They insisted as if it was a merit only deserved by black males to the extent to attack some guys used in IR scenes who weren't black enough in their views , like usurpers, go figure And now I'm learning that I was right and that the IR tag should have been used to all races when mixed and that to use it only when black are involved is inherently racist. Really? there are people here, black people who watch mainly IR or when a white girl is involved in porn they only watch her doing IR. Now if it's not labeled IR how could they find the porn they want? some slot machines perhaps? Did you ever thought that without IR most of the black guys in porn wouldn't work at all? Edited by - LCF on 6/7/2016 9:27:37 AM
^ I believe it is safe to say, without "interracial" films, black males would go extinct in the porn world, and some females try to spin that as a positive when they purposely hold out for massive paychecks for interracial scenes because "shooting with black guys is the new wave"
Nah because it was not equal. Yes it was separate, but blacks were not being treated equally because of disenfranchisement. The system known as Jim Crow, inherently unequal, was still in dire need of reform even 100 years after slavery was abolished. When so few black Americans could vote, it denied them equal rights plain and simple. That's definitely not "equal." But theoretically you could have separate and equal, or at least more equal than the results of integrated in certain circumstances. Separation alone does not necessarily make things unequal, it would just almost always wind up that way unless there was more proportionate political representation. As for Ali's views, the reason I wouldn't call him racist is because I don't believe he ever advocated for forcing people to separate. I also think much of what he was saying was reflecting the message of the greater society at the time. Most of these technically racist quotes attributed to him were being expressed in the 60s. I think it was just his way of pushing back against a society that was still enforcing segregation. Now, others being racist or corrupt does not excuse one of also being racist or corrupt, but I'm just saying it is not hard to understand where Ali was coming from in that context. Also, while I don't know it to be a fact, I would wager that in later decades, Ali's views on supporting segregation would have become tempered to the point of accepting if not supporting integration. Here's a link that goes more into detail about his various pro-segregation statements: https://youtu.be/ji3KVWbiLlY
What do you mean spin it as a positive? Is IR not positive overall? Do you think the industry is better off featuring IR or without it? It's difficult to assert things based on hypotheticals like "without IR" because we don't know how this scenario would come about. Without IR because of authoritarian social obstacles or without IR because of disinterest? Speaking of segregation, could you imagine there being laws against IR porn? Think how crazy it would be if "separate but equal" was still imposed in porn, classifying IR as obscenity or something - disturbing the peace? I think there's a porno series called Disturbing the Pussy or something to that effect. Ah yes, I just looked it up. Maxx Blacc: Disturbing the Spanish Pussy, by Evasive Angles. I liked a lot of those scenes. That series came out over 10 years ago. Interestingly, since then we seem to have regressed a bit in terms of racial inclusivity. There's almost ZERO black on Hispanic porn anymore, which I find massively unfortunate. And Maxx Blacc has been blackballed for reasons unknown. I think he just rubbed too many people wrong, and I dont mean his female partners but the people behind the scenes. From where I sit though he was one of my favorite performers. Watch his scene with Sandra Romain.
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV 911 Posts 4/06
Posted - Jun 8 2016 : 6:09PM
I vehemently disagree. The problem with "separate but equal" was not in the execution. The fundamental concept is flawed. Even executed perfectly, "separate but equal" is still one of the ugliest forms of segregation.
^Murdock before you lose too much respect for Ali you have to remember the world he was born and lived in as a black man in the segregated and openly racist and hostile south. If I had spent my most informative years seeing and experiencing the things that black folks living in the south had I could not say that I would not have felt very similarly. That being said Ali is also the man that said "The man who views the world at 50 the same as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life." So was not some closed minded individual he realized that times, people, and attitudes change.I tried to make this a similar point in the all things IR thread about how the IR distinction kind of pigeonholes black men in the industry and if a project is not deemed to be IR then you will rarely find a black performer in it. Unless the role calls for a black male specifically or if someone with influence wants a particular performer who happens to be black then for the most part black performers are shut out of scenes. You could argue that the IR category actually hurts some of the newer and lesser known black performers. Why would a company go out and hire a newer black performer if they had to pay a girl more to work with him when they could hire a new white guy for and pay her less. When a company does do an IR project they will not go out and get the new guys either because IR productions cost more anyway and male talent has to be reliable and producers go with the guys they know are which is why certain guys are seemingly in everything.I dont want to speak for DAT but I believe that what he is saying that girls are using the popularity of IR + The scarcity of black male talent are being used in a positive way by some of the female talent to get these bigger paydays. Not that IR itself is negative.
Why would they pay more unless they expect to get a commensurate return on their investment? Porn isn't one of those trades where you can have loss leaders, after all. That is to say, people aren't going to buy other titles from you just because you sell an IR title for less than it costs you to make it. Aside from that, porn producers are notoriously averse to hiring new male talent because the failure rate is pretty high. Obviously, if you're going to take that risk, you'd rather not take it on your more expensive productions.
^ SO: Interracial is more expensive Have to hire more experienced talent Reduce risk of failure by not experimenting with new trends/talent Market product remains too scarce Have to price adjust for ^^^ in demand and lack of supply Performers demand bigger checks to match ^^^ in market value Interracial becomes more expensive The day one of these major paysites(not the ones that produce only 1-2 scenes per week) gives black guys even a 30-70 split in scenes is the day hell freezes over.
Tasha Reign stopped worrying and tried Interracial Porn Apparently was approached to shoot her first IR scene back in 2014 for a very revered and respected director and his new IR site and was excited for the opportunity but her agent was a lot less excited by the idea and convinced her to pass.
So Lanky wanted to shoot her for Blacked and Derek (LA Direct) said no. I hate that they're the biggest agency in porn. And outside of that, not only does she perpetuate the false idea that IR pre-Blacked was all racially motivated (which she negates later in the article by mentioning Wicked), she also perpetuates the idea that doing IR will hurt your career by saying she was told it and never commenting on whether it was true or not.
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DiamondJackman Deactivated User
Straight From My Brown Balls, Using Good Pussy 501 Posts 10/15
Posted - Jun 11 2016 : 5:33AM
Tasha Reign is in the league of Brandi Love, she shits on IR porn.
This just shows that it's not always the girls who are saying "no" to shooting IR but their management encouraging them to. Ultimately, it's their choice but I would imagine most girls will want to listen to their agents because they figure they've been around and must know what they're talking about and/or don't want to start conflict with their agent. That's probably also why so many girls give the slightly strange answers about doing IR when asked. They may be opened to it but they don't want to say yes because their management has told them not to so they don't want to say anything that makes it sounds like their agent is pulling the strings or something that will alienate a part of their fanbase. And again...There probably was a time when doing IR could hurt a career. If most of the management in porn believed that then even if it wasn't true or got to the place when it stopped being true them just thinking that could affect a career. If a girl's agent truly believed doing IR would hurt a girl's career he might act accordingly and take less interest in her or suddenly decide the her base price needs to be lowered because she has a slower month which the agent might wrongly see as lack of interest. Perhaps after she's done IR the agent decides she's "tainted" and then start encouraging her to shoot for more "D" level studios. So even if doing IR doesn't actually hurt a career if a girl's management believes it does they have enough power to make it a reality. Of course there are girls who are so big/popular that they make it and prosper even if they have bad management. But "C" level pornstars might not be so lucky. So basically there is no definitive answer to how much doing IR affects a career because it depends on so many different things. In some cases doing IR may boost a career. In some cases it has no affect one way or another. In some cases depending on the girl's fanbase and the type of career she wants maybe it does.
If a person chooses to spin it in a negative way...yeah, you may have a point. But the reality is just like with white performers, if a black performer proves himself to be a good performer he'll rise to the top fairly quickly. Yeah, many directors use the same guys over and over and it's based on reliability mostly but I'm sure they'd rather not because it becomes boring to some fans after awhile to see the same guys over and over. Most directors would love a big(ger) stable of guys to rotate through. So, basically if a black guy proves he has the goods he'll have steady work. If he's so-so or not that good his career will reflect that. In porn black performers have an advantage over their white counterparts because there's a smaller pool of black talent to compete against. For some black guys having a big penis can be more important than actual performing skills. I think there are some black men in the biz that are so-so performers but get work based mostly on being big. I think that's harder to get by with for a white performer. Also, keep in mind that the reason you don't see black performers in much of porn's output is because there aren't as many black performers as white ones. The vast majority of porn is made for a white audience because that's the biggest demographic. The vast majority of white people most comfortable watching white on white porn. That's not to say most of them are against watching the occasional IR scene but they have no real desire to watch lots of IR unless they have a fetish towards it or follow a particular studio that does it. IR movies may top the charts of new movies from time to time but vast majority of porn sold overall is white on white mostly vanilla porn.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Jun 11 2016 : 12:52PM
^Tasha does not view Blacked as "derogatory" and writes about them positively in the article linked to. Did you read the article? If Blacked isn't racially fueled and derogatory in Tasha's view, then neither was a lot of other IR porn pre-Blacked.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Jun 11 2016 : 1:31PM
^^Setting aside Tasha for the moment, I should note that if Blacked's content is "very much derogatory" then so is porn in general. Likewise in regards to Jules Jordan.
^^ another simplistic sweeping generalization by an ex-dodger. "Hard raceplay usually involves epithets and guys actually portraying hoodlums" --- really? As much as the upper echelon sites are avoiding that, that does not mean they avoid raceplay. Blacked constantly uses trope storylines involving innocent white women sneaking around with a black man. Is it impossible to write a script where the two are an open couple or just two single people randomly hooking up without all the other infidelity BS? Naughty America has shifted all their (rare) interracial scenes into this weird cuckolding motif where you watch as a 3rd person cuck. Most of JJV's material relies on the females submitting to the dominating black male figure. But they tend to tastefully use raceplay, imo, there is nothing wrong with using real unoffensive stereotypes like "big black dick" or "snowbunny got some ass" in scenes. Elegant, in the Pat Collins era, was the only company that I felt did not rely on raceplay at all, only for technical aspects in filming but now all of those directors are split apart so now instead of relying on one company to deliver, I have to search through about 3-4 different ones now. "Because site A uses that offensive raceplay, that means sites B-Z also follows the same methods" - again, there were a few actors(Pumper, Pipes, Diesel, etc.) that relish in that "typical black guy stereotypes" role and the "dominating the man's little daughter" themes but there were plenty of actors, in fact most actors, that did not exhibit that style, at least not as their calling card. Is a guy like Ramon, Deen, or Keiran dominating girls more acceptable because there is no racial subtext? Since Dogfart, and with the occasional WCP and Evasive release, got popular with extreme raceplay and steroetypes, does that represent all IR content? Did Mercenary pictures not exist back then? Did Elegant Angel with Mason, LT, Asa Akira, Mimefreak, and William H not exist back then? Did Bangbros ever stray from shooting tame interracial scenes? Did Alexander and Diana Devoe not exist at all in the porn world? Has Mandingo ever shot a scene where he spoke more than 4 sentences that didnt involve "yeah, ugh, yeah"? Their PR people can cook up whatever they want, the bottom line will always be that these girls think they will lose high paying prejudiced fans and demand inordinate amounts of money to shoot with a black guy to offset that. What does that say about a person if they hang around with company that personally believes being with people of other "skin colors", not even ethnicities, just skin color, will hurt them? And I'm kinda happy Lanksy didnt get her back then, LA Direct doesnt deserve the publicity or the endorsement, they are so backwards over there, it's beyond laughable at this point.
Exactly Dat Dude, Yea the whole degrading IR argument is hollow and falls flat when you realize JJV, WCP and Elegant Angel were shooting IR for 10 years plus without playing up racial stereotypes. They basically used a few companies using race play to paint a broad brush against a whole genre. Most of these pornstars have been given a rehearsed story and are sticking to it. It's whatever. Edited by - mdcrusher on 6/11/2016 9:38:01 PM
^ Maybe "storylines, premise and overall depiction of what exactly was going on was very much derogatory" is the new go to excuse for not doing IR. The women can't say it will ruin their career anymore so they are coming up with that excuse. I remember Carter Cruise and Brandi Love saying that was the reason they wanted until Blacked. Also LA Direct models has gotten a lot of publicity from Blacked. They didn't get Tasha Reign but Blacked got several of their other girls like Kimberly Brix, Megan Rain, Adria Rae, Chloe Amour, etc.
Wasn't she talking about 2014? That is what i got from "back in the day" and although the scenes aren't the premises at blacked are or were let's seeandorand i do remember a description with a girls who had "her mouth were drooling as soon as she put her eyes on his black cock" that I already mentioned on this thread earlier but they must have edited out this one because it's no longer there
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Jun 12 2016 : 11:41AM
^Again, we're talking about how Tasha views these scenes. In her view Blacked's content does not fall under her description of being problematic. She goes so far as to mention that even her mother doesn't have an issue with Blacked. Now, if she does not view Blacked's "storylines, premise and overall depiction of what exactly was going on" to be "very much derogatory" then, if she is to be consistent, she should recognize that there was plenty of IR pre-Blacked that was also not "very much derogatory." Edited by - misspornUSA on 6/12/2016 12:54:06 PM
I don't want Tasha ever to be on blacked or any longtime dodgers like alison tyler who recently shot 1. Glad other companies shoot these type of women who have such issues with IR. Sometimes I wonder why these women even shoot IR, there are very few IR companies that they are willing to shoot with because they are so picky with IR. blah.
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Jun 24 2016 : 7:56PM
^I'm indifferent to Tasha shooting for Blacked but I'd rather Alison have shot her first IR with Blacked, not Lex, although I'll be watching the Lex scene just the same.
^ She waited 6 years for IR. I don't know if she said anything but clearly there must be a problem to wait that long. Reading about her maybe the work load slowed down and phone stopped ringing as she is not idea size. I just don't agree with rewarding long term dodgers. The goal of blacked i would think is to stop the long waiting practices and get girls while fresh in their young prime years. She is only doing it for a big paycheck, rewarding her might influence the young hot chicks blacked is getting to wait several years. Sets a bad sets a bad precedent in my opinion.
In Alison's case, work probably dried up but that would be hard to gauge anyways because her output wasn't every significant like someone like a Jynx Maze(who apparently plans to do IR after dodging for 6-7 years).
I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13
Posted - Jun 24 2016 : 11:13PM
^^It's possible that she was saving IR as a card to play in case she needed a career boost at some point. In fact, there are a number of possible explanations for her choice to wait so long, so I wouldn't assume that "she is only doing it for a big paycheck" (emphasis mine), although perhaps she is. In any case, the practice of waiting for years to shoot IR has become old hat in the Blacked era, so I don't think Alison's waiting makes a difference to the new generation of pornstars.
The goal of Blacked is to make money. They generally make the most money when they shoot first interracial scenes. They've shown that they'll go outside their comfort zone in terms of talent when a first interracial scene that will make them a lot of money is presented to them (the most recent example being Brandi Love). The primary reason they don't shoot more "dodgers" is that many of the girls that do "dodge" generally don't fit the type of female performer Greg shoots (young, minimally tatted, white). I don't think Greg cares who you do and don't consider a "dodger".
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DiamondJackman Deactivated User
Straight From My Brown Balls, Using Good Pussy 501 Posts 10/15
Posted - Jun 25 2016 : 1:38AM
Alison Tyler belongs in the same category as Nikki Benz (long-term dodging without shitting on IR), not Brandi Love.
^ If Alison is comparable to Nikki Benz perhaps she is just like Nikki in that she has/had management repping her that didn't want her to do IR even though she didn't have a problem with it or even wanted to.
??? If the claims are true that doing your first IR nets most girls more money then it doesn't matter if they do it 6 months in or 6 years in. So no new girl looking to take advantage of that is going to wait years down the road for that payday when they don't know they'll still be in the biz or the practice of paying more money for firsts will still be around. As far as Alison "only doing it for a big payday" we really have no idea. Perhaps she'll get a bigger paycheck for it but that doesn't mean it was the only reason she's doing it now. Paying more for IR didn't just start last month, it's been going on for some time now. If it was only for a big payday you'd think she would've done it before now. Perhaps she had management that told her not to do it. Perhaps she had a boyfriend/husband who told her not to do it. Perhaps she had a career plan that she's following and now's the time to do some new things. Some women just choose to wait to do IR or whatever in their porn career. In the history of porn there have always been women who wait years to do certain things like IR and back in those days there wasn't a big payday to entice them. There will always be those who jump right in and do IR and those who'll choose to wait. Just because she hadn't done IR before doesn't mean she had a "problem" with IR that suddenly goes away for a few extra bucks.
^ I don't think Alison or any girl who waits that long plans to do interracial. It just something that happened when their popularity starts to fade. No girl has a 6 year plan, it just something that happens. If she was still as busy like she was when she first started no way she does IR now. Just look at her thread she is not working like she use to. A girl who waits 6 years is def. getting way more money than a girls waits 6 months. And I just don't believe in all those reasons. I think it always leads back to money. If she is ever asked i'm sure it will be some kind of career decision but that still has to do with $. At the ends of the day regardless of the specific reason, if you take the $$ away they wouldn't do it. IR should not be put in the same category as those other things you are talking about. It to me is a basic b/g scene and should not be seen as any different. A girl should not be paid more to do it. You gotta understand the power of money. These women are sex workers, they sell their bodies for money, money will get them over their problem. And its not a few bucks, more like 4 times the rate or more the biggest paycheck they have ever received.
^ Let's not forget some talk with fellow performers , maybe some of them convinced such star that their agents/advisors were giving them lots of BS , I think this could have had an overall impact too. Also they may have worked with Lansky before and trust him enough to give it a try. The fact that even mostly lesbian performers such as Brett Rossi worked with Blacked That even Brandi Love did it Also you may add those with other companies such as Kendra Lust with Mimefreak All of those may have influenced some others or just changed the balance for those who were dubious. Edited by - LCF on 6/26/2016 4:27:42 AM
Rico Shades has chimed in on the first IR debate, seems there are those contacting him for their 1st and this is what he had to say. Edited by - blkknight1 on 7/5/2016 2:21:24 PM Edited by - blkknight1 on 7/5/2016 2:22:40 PM
I think that's probably what happened with Alison. The turnover with girls is much higher now because you have so many new ones coming in on just a monthly basis. So it's much harder for older girls like Alison to get work when you have a steady stream of really good looking 18-24 yr old girls getting all the boxcovers and work on sites like brazzers, realitykings, blacked, etc.. So she decided that it was time to help her career by working with Lex. About Brett Rossi, who knows. I was shocked when I saw her on blacked. I think, and this is just speculation, that she did it as publicity to get out from under the Sheen mess, but who knows. On Tasha Reign, for those who don't know, she dated Derek Hay for some time and he has rather antiquated ideas on race so I'm not surprised he told her not to do it. That's also pretty much why so many girls at LA Direct (his agency) don't work with Black talent. Edited by - Zy28 on 7/5/2016 1:15:12 AM
I don't know if I should put this here or start another thread. However, a director is looking for girls to shoot their first interracial hand job. Maybe this is a joke. If not, these first IR scenes are getting ridiculous. The IR genre will begin to look like this. 1st IR Kiss (Female) 1st IR Kiss (Male) 1st IR Oral (Female) 1st IR Handjob 1st IR Blowjob 1st IR Blowbang 1st IR B/G (Vaginal) 1st IR B/G (Anal) 1st IR Gangbang (Vaginal only) 1st IR Gangbang (Anal) 1st IR BGG 1st IR BBG
Edited by - fanofman on 7/5/2016 4:43:22 PM
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DiamondJackman Deactivated User
Straight From My Brown Balls, Using Good Pussy 501 Posts 10/15
Posted - Jul 6 2016 : 3:16AM
^IR first viewing (first time a white chick sees a black penis)
I don't even get what that means exactly. He obviously does care because if he didn't he wouldn't care if it's the girl's 1st, 5th, or 50th but he seems to be hung up on it being the 1st. If he isn't interested in being in a girl's first IR scene I'm pretty sure they'll just move on to another guy and not care about his stance. Is this stance doing anything at all other than having him have less work?
My reading of that (I could be wrong) was that he's essentially saying that the only scenario in which he would think it's justifiable charging more for a first IR was if it was also going to be their last scene altogether. I'm guessing he means that because of a special circumstance like that, a person could justify charging a higher rate. But that he's not down for someone charging more simply because it's an IR first.
we the people in order to form a more perfect union... 518 Posts 12/03
Posted - Jul 7 2016 : 5:55AM
you brought up this point in the "why are first interracials such a big deal" thread. there IS a difference between a girl's first, 5th , and so on because sometimes there is no second, third, fifth, and so on. when will there be a second scene with Brandi Love, Peta Jensen, and Brett Rossi with a black man or is this a one and done type a deal? true, there are girls like Riley Reid, AJ Applegate, and Kagney Linn Carter who now have a bunch of IR scenes under their belt to the point that most of us have forgotten that they were once dodgers themselves. so we for the most part don't remember that their first scenes with black men was very much ballyhooed like the above three women. in their cases there is no difference about their 2nd, 5th, etc... scenes with black men so now for the most part at this point we don't care. the same thing cannot be said about the three women in the above paragraph. that is why I don't blow out party whistles or turn cartwheels when any dodger's first scene with a black man is announced, no matter how much she gets paid for it or under what circumstances.
