I will just leave it here
Edited by - Stall on 3/29/2017 7:47:44 AM
[Link]
Sexy Brunette Fucks Her Accountant - review by Danielmayu33216| Author | Post |
|---|---|
| Stall Deactivated User 83 Posts 3/17 |  Posted - Mar 28 2017 : 8:52PMI will just leave it here Edited by - Stall on 3/29/2017 7:47:44 AM [Link] |
| misspornUSA Senior Member I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13 | Posted - Mar 28 2017 : 9:38PM [Link] |
| Eco195 Deactivated User 126 Posts 2/12 | Posted - Mar 28 2017 : 10:39PM And at the time she wasn't trying to raise her price, she was giving her honest opinion about her distaste for even the idea of working with Black talent. As for why she changed her mind, my guess is she had done all the circus acts imaginable in porn so that was really the last genre she could get serious attention for doing. [Link] |
| fanofman Senior Member 2053 Posts 9/15 | Posted - Mar 28 2017 : 11:02PM [Link] |
| misspornUSA Senior Member I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13 | Posted - Mar 28 2017 : 11:08PM [Link] |
| misspornUSA Senior Member I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13 | Posted - Mar 28 2017 : 11:09PM [Link] |
| fanofman Senior Member 2053 Posts 9/15 | Posted - Mar 28 2017 : 11:16PM Source: http://www.data18.com/adriana_chechick/interracial.html Edited by - fanofman on 3/28/2017 11:18:57 PM [Link] |
| misspornUSA Senior Member I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13 | Posted - Mar 28 2017 : 11:30PM Edited by - misspornUSA on 3/28/2017 11:30:58 PM [Link] |
| NomnoMnOm Member 379 Posts 5/15 | Posted - Mar 28 2017 : 11:45PM [Tweet is no longer available] [Tweet is no longer available] On peformers being condemned for accepting more for IR scenes: [Tweet is no longer available]Often I see that IR is grouped together with double anal, DPs, and gangbangs, and especially anal. I do like that some performers just view it as a normal B/G scene though, and not an act, so to speak. [Tweet is no longer available] [Link] |
| misspornUSA Senior Member I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13 | Posted - Mar 28 2017 : 11:49PM Nina's great of course but IR firsts weren't event porn back when she started. [Link] |
| whatsatelephonebill Senior Member 2935 Posts 10/11 | Posted - Mar 29 2017 : 2:24AM Edit: And to get myself back on topicYup, he actually said in response to me saying it in his thread. Proof, if anyone wants it. MimeFreak Appreciation Thread... Edited by - whatsatelephonebill on 3/29/2017 2:32:04 AM [Link] |
| Melvyn Senior Member 2797 Posts 12/12 | Posted - Mar 31 2017 : 11:36PM Again, I think it underscores how people have twisted something good into something bad, which it isn't. It is not bad that people value IR more. Bad is when people value something LESS. I just don't get how people fail to comprehend this. Instead of getting up in ones feelings over the most trifling outrage one could bothered about, why not acknowledge that it's popular because people like it? How can being liked be a bad thing? I still say the best compromise that would resolve this non-troversy would be if someone is all upset that the female is getting a marginal bonus for her 1st IR, then they should try and explain how they deserve a share of that bonus. Go ahead and explain it. If you can't then STFU lol. I've also said, maybe the black male talent who is required for these so-called "first IR" scenes should be negotiating for better pay, but then they would easily be undercut by the next black guy. So, the fact is, guys regardless of color don't get that same kind of special consideration for extra pay, cuz its mostly the same dozen guys or so doing the same shit they been doing forever. It's the girls who are new, so they have the unique selling points. [Link] |
| misspornUSA Senior Member I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13 | Posted - Apr 1 2017 : 1:02AM [Link] |
Goldstein  All-Star Member "You have sacrificed nothing and no one." 3689 Posts 8/10 | Posted - Apr 1 2017 : 8:55AM Basically, people living in New York City and San Francisco -- and the performers drawn from that population -- pretty much didn't care all that much about race being an issue. Also, there were far fewer porn films being made -- and I do mean films -- among a much smaller talent pool that worked regularly with the same people. Fast-forward to the LA-based industry, porn on video (in your home, not pervs in an old movie theater) and talent coming from all over the country (including the Bible Belt, fly-over country and what we now know as red state America), and you can see how race, especially Black/White, starts to gain currency. I can easily see how paying Susie Lynn Creamcheese, from Buttfuck, Alabama, a little extra to fuck a non-White performer -- back when it wasn't commonplace -- came about. So, today's "IR premium" pay standards are no biggie and don't surprise me. For example, even though IR has become common, it's the shooting the hot new starlet's first IR that means everything, and is where the money and return on the studio's investment has the most return value (especially if the girl doesn't do many or any IR scenes after that). As has been recently pointed out, the "IR premium" is a net plus to the performers, not a negative. So, suck and let suck :) [Link] |
| sh_rock Member we the people in order to form a more perfect union... 518 Posts 12/03 | Posted - Apr 2 2017 : 3:40AM by the way I thought the town was Buttfucked, Alabama. [Link] |
| LCF All-Star Member Non Prevalebunt! 10364 Posts 1/05 | Posted - Apr 2 2017 : 4:13PM Actually on this very thread Jules Jordan himself stated that the male performers ask him more money to shoot IR for him, I mean BLACK MEN. Edited by - LCF on 4/2/2017 4:14:44 PM [Link] |
| Goldstein All-Star Member "You have sacrificed nothing and no one." 3689 Posts 8/10 | Posted - Apr 2 2017 : 5:42PM [Link] |
| whatsatelephonebill Senior Member 2935 Posts 10/11 | Posted - Apr 2 2017 : 7:05PM Technically, said premium is still discriminatory/racist as it is a premium that white/lighter skinned women have access to that black women never do. Black women won't get extra pay for shooting with a black man, and they won't get a big payday for their first shoot with a white male performer either. [Link] |
| misspornUSA Senior Member I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13 | Posted - Apr 2 2017 : 8:00PM [Link] |
| whatsatelephonebill Senior Member 2935 Posts 10/11 | Posted - Apr 2 2017 : 8:28PM I could get into a fun argument right now that much of the racism in porn actually comes from racism on the part of the consumers as opposed to on the part of the producers, so the discrimination black female performers face is actually because many consumers see them as inferior to white female performers, which would still make it racism, but one that would be much harder to change/counteract. But I don't how much I want to argue that position. It's something I find myself wondering about every so often, though. [Link] |
| Melvyn Senior Member 2797 Posts 12/12 | Posted - Apr 2 2017 : 8:28PM It's what the consumers want, NOT what they don't want which is driving this practice. It is not as if the reason there is a marginal premium on 1st time IR is due to people discriminating AGAINST IR or black performers, but because people discriminate FOR them. Black guys are not victims. They are reaping rewards of this because of the inordinate demand, which goes hand in hand with the exclusive bonus pay for the females. If you really want to make the case that someone is being victimized, then you need to present a victim. So far nobody has. When you decry this as unethical, as reprehensibly discriminatory, you're making it seem like the black guys is being valued less. You're making it seem as though the industry is paying girls LESS to do IR - which is something which actually WOULD hurt the black performers. But that is the opposite of what is going on here. Females aren't being paid LESS to do IR. Like I've been saying, it's not the fault of the producers, and it's not the fault of the consumers, and yet they are the most responsible for this practice. It exists because of them. And it also comes as no big surprise that a lot of the consumers and fans of interracial porn are black, and they also like to see 1st time IR debuts.They are helping drive this practice too. IDK when the last time you guys checked out the twitter for Blacked, but there's a ton of black fans out there. I think this is just a perfect example that proves discrimination isn't always the evil you think it is. Everyone discriminates. The market typically discriminates against low quality, against low skills. The consumers discriminate against unattractive people. Interracial exists as a popular genre not because people discriminate AGAINST it, but they discriminate FOR it. This means there are many people out there who will discriminate against vanilla porn when selecting the porn they'd rather support. The fact remains that where something has extra value, it is going to be prized and people who want to procure said goods/services have a right to competitively bid. As unethical as it may seem, I just do not see how anyone else has the right to tell a performer that she cannot entertain competing bids. If one producer appraises the prospective value of her IR debut at 5 grand, why can't she affirm this value? What if it is in a competing producer's interest to offer more? I just don't see how this can ever go away when EVERYONE recognizes it has extra value. It's like trying to insist that a gold coin may not be valued more than a copper coin. Something is only worth what people are willing to pay. If IR wasn't worth more, then there's no way in hell any producers would even bother. You guys think they just love to throw money away willy nilly? Porn producers these days are as stingy as ever because they already have to compete with tube sites, piracy, and the emerging solo camsites. Despite these obstacles, the practice remains. It just goes to show you the value is undeniable. But I am always all ears for alternative solutions. If someone could prove to a successful brand on par with Blacked while avoiding this practice, then what are they waiting for? [Link] |
| Stall Deactivated User 83 Posts 3/17 | Posted - Apr 3 2017 : 1:00AM [Tweet is no longer available] [Tweet is no longer available] [Tweet is no longer available] Also at AVN and those porn trade shows [Tweet is no longer available] What is why black woman ended up leaving the business because there own race won't support them Edited by - Stall on 4/3/2017 1:01:06 AM [Link] |
| sh_rock Member we the people in order to form a more perfect union... 518 Posts 12/03 | Posted - Apr 3 2017 : 3:21AM here is a quote from Mickey Mod from alternet.org: "It's really shitty for a person of color to be on set and to know that your scene partner is only doing this scene because they're making more money than they would with a scene partner that was white." the problem is among us consumers we do not tend to look at porn discrimination from the black performer's point of view (both male and female). it would be safe to say that they would have more knowledge about the racism than the ones who have never been in the industry. [Link] |
| NomnoMnOm Member 379 Posts 5/15 | Posted - Apr 3 2017 : 7:08AM [Tweet is no longer available] [Tweet is no longer available] [Link] |
| misspornUSA Senior Member I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13 | Posted - Apr 3 2017 : 11:55AM Edited by - misspornUSA on 4/3/2017 12:45:56 PM [Link] |
| LCF All-Star Member Non Prevalebunt! 10364 Posts 1/05 | Posted - Apr 3 2017 : 5:21PM Edited by - LCF on 4/3/2017 5:24:17 PM [Link] |
| LCF All-Star Member Non Prevalebunt! 10364 Posts 1/05 | Posted - Apr 3 2017 : 5:23PM [Link] |
| Goldstein All-Star Member "You have sacrificed nothing and no one." 3689 Posts 8/10 | Posted - Apr 3 2017 : 5:38PM I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that it is not because the customers are "racists." The IR genre is very popular. The girls aren't getting the "IR premium" to soil themselves with a Black man (today, the girls just don't particularly care about IR one way or the other). RATHER... Because the customer wants to see IR... and, because the studios make money delivering content the customers will pay for... the girls leverage this to get a little more money out of the deal -- which I absolutely fucking guarantee you the studios would not pay if it weren't in their financial interest to do so! Those who want to see racism here -- and I've discussed the racial/racist origins previously -- will see nothing but. When you're a hammer, the whole world looks like a nail. However, this is all about money now, not racism. In fact, I'll even suggest to you that, you -- and, more importantly the studios -- probably don't have enough money to convince a truly racist girl to perform with a Black man. You definitely don't have enough money to convince a girl with a racist boyfriend to fuck a Black man. Need I discuss the girl with a racist family who would disown her for fucking a Black man? Honestly, it's just not that hard to separate "money" from "racism" if you think it through. Many keep repeating about how the Black guy doesn't get anything extra. Well, do White, Asian, Hispanic, etc. studs ever get anything extra for fucking women of any race? Of course not. This business is still made and broken by the girls -- in particular the "hot new girl." Believe it or not, the customers are more interested in the girls than who's fucking them. In a world where our future perverts have grown-up jerking-off to Beyonce, Rihanna, et al, I think we will continue seeing more Black and women of color in mainstream porn. BUT, you're not going to see any "premium" pay for Black girls (or Asian or Hispanic girls) -- because they're now just part of the overall mainstream female talent pool. Next thing you know, we're going to have to find out why the prettier and more polished girls demand and get higher rates than most other girls get  So, "yeah," the "IR premium" primarily benefits only White girls. So what. Edited by - Goldstein on 4/3/2017 5:42:06 PM [Link] |
| Eco195 Deactivated User 126 Posts 2/12 | Posted - Apr 3 2017 : 8:55PM What's surprising is that Jules felt it noteworthy enough to mention.Their race supports them. More than any other actually. As for her example, it seems like she wanted more attention and didn't receive it and felt slighted. And most girls leave the industry of all races because the average career in the business only lasts about 6 months.This comment makes zero sense. The girls are receiving extra pay because they wouldn't do scenes with Black talent otherwise. If Black guys were valued *more* the girls would do the scenes for less money than is standard just to do it. That's how eager they'd be. It's like if someone is asked to stand outside in the rain holding a sign for minimum wage. Would most do it? Nope. If they were paid $50/hr would many more do it? Of course. If you have to pay someone more than the standard pay to do something then it's because the activity is distasteful to them. And with the porn example it's because of....drumroll.......racism. [Link] |
| misspornUSA Senior Member I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13 | Posted - Apr 3 2017 : 9:06PM [Tweet is no longer available] The guys ask for more precisely because the scene will neither be sold nor consumed as a generic b/g. There's a specific consumer demand/base for IR in general and IR firsts especially. [Link] |
| misspornUSA Senior Member I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13 | Posted - Apr 3 2017 : 9:15PM [Link] |
| misspornUSA Senior Member I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13 | Posted - Apr 3 2017 : 9:33PM The girls are receiving extra pay because the producers think that the scenes are worth it. Why do they think that? Because there is a consumer demand for IR firsts. IR firsts are expected to be uniquely profitable, therefore agents/performers expect to be paid more for them and so producers make larger offers than they would for a standard b/g (which they would not expect to be uniquely profitable).Edited by - misspornUSA on 4/3/2017 9:34:23 PM [Link] |
| Stall Deactivated User 83 Posts 3/17 | Posted - Apr 3 2017 : 11:59PM Edited by - Stall on 4/4/2017 12:02:42 AM [Link] |
| whatsatelephonebill Senior Member 2935 Posts 10/11 | Posted - Apr 4 2017 : 12:12AM Edit: And the tweets being quoted are referencing two different issues that are similar, but not actually the same. One is women asking for more money to shoot their first interracial scene (what the thread was started on, and I think even detractors of the idea can realize that the reasons for this are primarily financial as opposed to anything intentionally discriminatory). The second is asking for more money to shoot ANY interracial scene, first or not, which is a more nebulous issue, since while we know first interracial scenes sell well just like many other firsts, there's no real proof that non-firsts sell better than any other b/g scene (most of the top selling IR titles out there either contain firsts, or are shot by producers for whom everything they do sells well [Mason, Jules Jordan, Lanksy]). Edited by - whatsatelephonebill on 4/4/2017 12:28:08 AM [Link] |
| NomnoMnOm Member 379 Posts 5/15 | Posted - Apr 4 2017 : 2:41AM Now, IIRC, Moe Johnson did say he gets paid more for IR scenes, in comparison to his other scenes. I'll have to find the interview [Link] |
| misspornUSA Senior Member I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13 | Posted - Apr 4 2017 : 3:19PM [Link] |
| Stall Deactivated User 83 Posts 3/17 | Posted - Apr 4 2017 : 8:37PM If you read the tweets that I posted Chanell Heart said about black IR fans not support there own race then you what I'm taking about. I went to AEE Convention in Vegas a few years ago and the black IR fans will take autographs and picture of the white girls who do black men and the one who don't do black men but not the black woman because they ignore them. Not too many of them go to those events but sadly the lack of support for black woman from there own race is at a all time low. [Link] |
| whatsatelephonebill Senior Member 2935 Posts 10/11 | Posted - Apr 4 2017 : 8:52PM To continue this thought, I was at AVN this year and Ana Foxxx and Chanel were at Lansky's Blacked/Vixen/Tushy booth. And I might have to say they were the least popular performers there (I tried to make it a point to go see both of them), and I don't doubt there were many black men there who went up/talked to the white performers at the booth and skipped them entirely (I saw more than a few with my own eyes). I can see how something like that would affect how she sees her black male supporters. [Link] |
| Stall Deactivated User 83 Posts 3/17 | Posted - Apr 4 2017 : 9:24PM [Link] |
| Gunslinger Member 463 Posts 4/14 | Posted - Apr 4 2017 : 11:37PM [Link] |
| whatsatelephonebill Senior Member 2935 Posts 10/11 | Posted - Apr 4 2017 : 11:48PM Without any real evidence, I'd argue that all of them are probably, proportionately at least, receiving about the same amount of black male support, but have different levels of support among white males (who, you know, make up the majority of the porn buying audience), which is why they have differing levels of popularity. [Link] |
| Goldstein All-Star Member "You have sacrificed nothing and no one." 3689 Posts 8/10 | Posted - Apr 5 2017 : 6:53AM Clearly, you do not comprehend the term "<iet al</i". Nothing more pathetic than illiterate Internet posters with an agenda [o\|] Edited by - Goldstein on 4/5/2017 6:55:51 AM [Link] |
| Eco195 Deactivated User 126 Posts 2/12 | Posted - Apr 5 2017 : 8:35AM That being said, it's still a niche category as the biggest sites like Brazzers, pornpros, and realitykings don't focus most of their energy on those scenes. The bulk of the ones they and other sites do focus on are white/white as they're the most "in demand," yet girls aren't paid extra for them. Which undermines the argument that white female performers should receive extra pay because it's an "in demand" genre. So at this point it's clear there's no real reason for the practice, as standard pay will be sufficient to get most girls to work for these sites given the high profile nature of them. Which helps their careers. And the additional pay policy continues merely because of an outdated idea that it's expected even when it doesn't make economic sense. Edited by - Eco195 on 4/5/2017 8:36:41 AM [Link] |
| Stall Deactivated User 83 Posts 3/17 | Posted - Apr 5 2017 : 9:24AM [Link] |
| misspornUSA Senior Member I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13 | Posted - Apr 5 2017 : 10:52AM There is no question at all that there is consumer base that wants IR specifically. That is what matters to producers. [Link] |
| misspornUSA Senior Member I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13 | Posted - Apr 5 2017 : 10:56AM [Link] |
| misspornUSA Senior Member I ♥ the male gaze (and Palestine). 8737 Posts 11/13 | Posted - Apr 5 2017 : 11:04AM Agents/performers will continue to expect higher pay for IR firsts as long as there is a consumer demand for those firsts. The IR consumer base places a higher value on firsts, so performers get paid more for firsts. [Link] |
| whatsatelephonebill Senior Member 2935 Posts 10/11 | Posted - Apr 5 2017 : 11:45AM [Link] |
| Mister Fahrenheit All-Star Member Meh 4655 Posts 10/13 | Posted - Apr 5 2017 : 11:49AM [Link] |
| Stall Deactivated User 83 Posts 3/17 | Posted - Apr 7 2017 : 7:54AM [Tweet is no longer available] Lisa Ann also said the same thing too, BTW is there any porn companies or directors that refuse paid girls more for IR, I know one company won't never hire girls who charges more for IR scenes. But I know Brazzers (sometimes when they shoot IR), Jules Jordan, Blacked.com do paid girls more for IR [Link] |
| Use the code below to link to this topic or a specific post. |
| URL of this thread |
| Link to this post with HTML |
| Link to this post with Forum Code |